He is the best player at 35 at the world cup most goals Most assists Most chances created. He was the goat before the world cup even now
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
no he isn't.
@kobber69
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow damn you make some great points
@vb2388
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow stick to anime weeb 😂
@noone6953
Жыл бұрын
@Charlie Green if I’m not mistaken yes. Messi is 2nd. He created one less chance than griezman. It’s still great tho. Having the 2nd most created chance in World cup
@davidlean1060
Жыл бұрын
I know you're only using the venacular, but can we show the great man the respect he deserves by actually spelling out the word 'The Greatest'? It's the least we can do for all the magnificent things he has shown us.
@MrMelvinmoore
Жыл бұрын
He's EASILY the greatest. Its already set in stone. a World Cup win is just to complete his trophy cabinet + the cherry on top
@franalytics5995
Жыл бұрын
amen bruv
@gouravghosh588
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely correct. It would also be fun to watch the meltdown of Penaldo fans if Messi lifts the WC
@franalytics5995
Жыл бұрын
@@gouravghosh588 bruh noone even talked about ronaldo here why is he living rent free in ur head
@gouravghosh588
Жыл бұрын
@@franalytics5995 Goes to show who is living rent free is who's head. I just said it would be funny to watch the meltdown of Penaldo fans. He doesn't live my head, because I don't even consider him a rival to Messi
@franalytics5995
Жыл бұрын
@@gouravghosh588 the comment was about Messi's obvious greatness and brilliance, and how he's the clear goat and then u say i can't wait to see the meltdown of penaldo fans, u don't need to disrespect Ronaldo and act like a toxic Twitter npc, we weren't even talking about ronaldo or his fans, get Ronaldo outta ur head boi
@zackaz8644
Жыл бұрын
yes he is discussion is over
@MrMelvinmoore
Жыл бұрын
shouldn't even be a discussion obj
@RodolfoGaming
Жыл бұрын
Well that's Pelé clearly, man with most cup and did it at the hardest time to be a footbballer
@bbobydoesgames
Жыл бұрын
most cup 😂
@neelanshguptaa1440
Жыл бұрын
He didn’t even play most of the ‘62 edition. Brazil at the time were the best time in the world with world class players and they showed that by winning once without him.
@gnevescoelho
Жыл бұрын
@@neelanshguptaa1440 does this also apply to Pep's Barça with Iniesta, Dani Alves and Xavi to serve Messi all the goals he scored?
@jimsim8736
Жыл бұрын
@@gnevescoelho If they served Messi all the goals he scored... why did he continue to set ridiculously high standards without them? Also, go watch his highlight reel, he wasn’t just served the vast majority of goals on a plate.
@neelanshguptaa1440
Жыл бұрын
@@gnevescoelho If Messi were ever injured long enough for Pep’s Barca to win a trophy without him, I guess we’d know.
@user-br3fk8dx8o
Жыл бұрын
If Messi was only one of the greatest dribblers of all time, then it's a debate over whether he is indeed the greatest of all time. The issue is... he will also go down as one of the greatest goal-scorers of all time, with 91 goals in ONE YEAR IS ABSURD... it is absolutely ridiculous his proficiency at scoring. But then you add the fact that he's not simply those two things... he will go down as one of the GREATEST direct creators, how many times have you seen Messi slip in players 1 on 1 with defence-splitting balls. Then add on the passing - the weight of pass is crazy, he can hit switches like nothing. THEN ADD ON TO THE FACT, HE'S AN ELITE ELITE PLAYMAKER... how many times is this guy going to drop deep and start plays, create combinations and transition the game forward Fucking alien of a player
@KonDamian
Жыл бұрын
Nowadays, football is a team sport more than ever. How many times we have seen a whole team come up with a strategy to beat Messi only for them to fail? How many times we have seen a whole team set up in a way only to stop Messi's free kick and fail? Plus nowadays even an average footballer has to be way more athletic to compete. It's way more difficult today to be an exceptional player. Messi has even proven at 35 years old that he is a class above the most gifted physical players like Haaland and Mbappe. The longevity this guy has achieved has never been seen before. Yes, Maradona was exceptional but for how many years? It was like Ronaldinho. He was the best player in the world but only for a few seasons. Messi has been dominating the stage for 16 years. It's unreal. Now at 35 and he is better than Haaland and Mbappe. For me, if you have to be considered the best you need to have this kind of contributory factor. Not a world cup. In order to win the world cup you need first of all luck. To be born in a country that can win it and secondly to have good enough teammates that can contribute in those exact moments.
@-Jonty
Жыл бұрын
Spot on
@houseofvenusMD
Жыл бұрын
By your own definition Messi is the greatest today, but Pele is the greatest of all time. Pele consistently scored ~40% of Brazil's world cup goals in four World Cup tournaments spanning 12 years, winning three of them with the first being won at aged 17. That's another league entirely. I believe in the Pantheon of Football it will be Pele, Maradona, Messi. If Messi wins this World Cup he will surpass Maradona in that respect for sure.
@KonDamian
Жыл бұрын
@@houseofvenusMD I don't put so high the world cup. Many things can go wrong. As I said, it's a team game. If France for example win Dembele will get the medal. Does it mean that hibis better than Messi? Absolutely not. Another factor is that you can be the MVP of the tournament and still don't win anything. To be more clear, Messi did everything correct with the game against the Dutch, but if Martinez didn't had catch those penalties Argentina would be out. So Messi "greatness" depends on others too.
@theboss-by5gd
Жыл бұрын
@@houseofvenusMD im sorry but the level of Pele's oppositions compared to what Messi and CR7 faced week in week out for 16 to 20 years straight,nah not even close.Pele is one of the greats but Messi is clear for sure
@ReSunDestin
Жыл бұрын
To me what makes Messi so much better than anyone else is that, if he had not scored a single goal in his entire career but kept everything else as it is now, we'd still be talking about him as the best playmaker and one of the best players in history But he scored goals, 800 of them, he's just so good at every single attacking aspect of the game that we kind of "forget" that he's also the best finisher in modern football history, so much so that Ronaldo unfairly got that title, Messi is untouchable
@nazmulbhuiyan1982
Жыл бұрын
About 10 years ago Barcelona thrashed Real Madrid by scoring 5 goals. Messi didn’t score a single goal in that match but he was still MOTM, that’s the kind of impact he has even when not scoring.
@SheevPalps868
Жыл бұрын
@@nazmulbhuiyan1982 That game is so iconic. I remember watching Messi slowly walking off the pitch looking like he had just defeated an army.
@mariosimas
Жыл бұрын
Its not the records or the silverware, its the Football and the lasting memory that leaves in all of us.
@SanxBile
Жыл бұрын
Just watch him play.. The Greatest.
@homerp.hendelbergenheinzel6649
3 ай бұрын
@@nazmulbhuiyan1982 i have this game in my movie folder on my hard disc. the folder is labeled ( and that is a copied quote from the folder): "Barca vs Kacknoobs 29 11 2010" xD kacknoobs means shitnoobs ^^ i have about 30 games of barcelona on that hard disc. some obvious like the arsenal game, some probably only i remember, because messi didnt score ( lol) but still did things you cant talk about. the latter ones are my gems.
@geohandle
Жыл бұрын
Not seen or never will see a player who dominated all the attacking aspects of the game like Messi. For people who constantly watch football matches, there never was a debate.
@gouravghosh588
Жыл бұрын
Couldn't agree more
@csbdcsbd8728
Жыл бұрын
Explain how he dominates all the attacking aspects
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo is literally better.
@Zakaria_cfc
Жыл бұрын
@@csbdcsbd8728 playmaking. dribbling and goalcoring and set pieces he is the best at all of them
@FountainOfYoot
Жыл бұрын
@@Zakaria_cfc so he's the greatest goalscorer of all time? With the most goals? Interesting. That's news to me
@LexWil7
Жыл бұрын
Unpopular opinion but Pele played with an incredibly strong team and many of his team mates also played in Santos. Maradona at a personal level is a controversial figure, but as a footballer he was a force of nature. As far as Messi goes, I used to think he needed to do more at National level, despite winning Copa America, but now its clear to me whether he wins the world cup or not that he is the best player of all time and that’s coming from a Madrid fan.
@gumdeo
Жыл бұрын
Pele supposedly "won" the World Cup in 1962 when he missed most of the tournament and it was Garrincha that actually carried Brasil to victory.
@zeckchi0148
Жыл бұрын
The Brazilian team Pele played in where mostly filled with Botafogo player there were only three players from santos on the team.
@zeckchi0148
Жыл бұрын
@@gumdeo so you’re going to ignore the other two world cups including the 1972 cup in which he was the best player of the tournament.
@LexWil7
Жыл бұрын
@@zeckchi0148 was his team the best by far of any nation in all roles or that’s something we’re going to ignore?
@kunalsingh4418
Жыл бұрын
@@zeckchi0148 No we are not, but you have to consider the difference in leading an underdog to victory, and being part of the strongest team which wins the tournament easily. The first is an infinitely more difficult task, and hence is given far more respect. Pele as you mentioned has one in 1972, which IMO is more valuable than other 2 combined. Similarly although Maradona has only one, his performance in 1986 is so dominating that single one is already good enough. Same for Messi that is if he manages to win.
@thetruegospelofchrist4160
Жыл бұрын
None can be compared to him, he's the greatest footballer to play the game.
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo is literally better.
@thetruegospelofchrist4160
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow drugs are not good for you nor anyone, unless prescribed by a doctor.
@Ar021
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow at what? For me Ronaldo slightly edges Messi at goal scoring but that’s it.
@SheevPalps868
Жыл бұрын
@@Ar021 even then Messi’s goal per game ratio is better, he’s got more golden boots, record for most goals in a year and season, more goals in finals and more goals from the bench.
@klaus2913
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow Go and check the stats then. Messi is above Ronaldo on almost every metric, except for headers. He has the better dribbling, passing and even edges him on goal scoring. Next to that he has a ton more assists than him, and the superior vision. Although Ronaldo is definitely one of the best players to ever grace the pitch, Messi still edges him. I also have never seen Ronaldo dribbling almost whole teams on a constant basis, as if he was still in school. The amount of solo goals Messi made is insane. I really do not understand why this is even a debate, because for me the eye test already shows who the better one is.
@wady8785
Жыл бұрын
Short Answer: Yes Long Answer: Yeeeeessssss
@Gefionius
Жыл бұрын
Why do you say that ‘86 Arg team is weaker than today? Any evidence? i watched that entire WC and that Arg team was incredible in defense and made counter ops for Maradona. Maradona didnt win that on his own either.
@Aanike09
Жыл бұрын
I think that was his point, that in reality saying one team was stronger may be incorrect because a lot of those players might have been forgotten to time
@zxtsf
Жыл бұрын
Stats
@toocool.conservative3632
Жыл бұрын
look at the team player by player by player, bench by bench
@gumdeo
Жыл бұрын
86 goalie was weaker for a start...
@Enzoblueblood
Жыл бұрын
And Carlos Bilardo was a smart muthafucka
@eldhoabraham1444
Жыл бұрын
Messi is so good. That you just don't know what to talk about. The goals? The dribbles ? The playmaking? The longevity? The achievements ? Every aspect tick marked in big bold letters. Every other player has got one or the other, Messi got all of that and that too he's been better than anyone else in all of those areas individually taken ! Man we're just truly blessed !
@ryanergo754
Жыл бұрын
That 1986 Argentina team wasn't weak. They won the Copa America without Maradona. This Argentine team without Messi could never.
@rohhhann
Жыл бұрын
Argentina won Copa America in 1991 with different players.
@vb2388
Жыл бұрын
@@rohhhann yes and they also reached 1990 WC final 🤷🏻♂️ where Maradona had 0 goals the entire tournament Argentina from 1986 to 1993 were very good…Maradona single handedly didn’t carry anyone…that’s just a false narrative
@rohhhann
Жыл бұрын
@@vb2388 Maradona played with an injury in WC 90 where they won only 2 games en route to the final. He wasn't physically 100% but still helped them to another final. He was voted the 3rd best player despite this. In 1986 Argentina doesn't win the World Cup without Maradona. All Argentina's playmaking went through him. That side was more reliant on Maradona than Argentina is to Messi.
@rohhhann
Жыл бұрын
@@vb2388 Two players from 1986 were in 1991 and 1993 squads. Oscar Ruggeri and reserve GK Luis Islas. Maradona carried a different group of players to glory.
@vb2388
Жыл бұрын
@@rohhhann if Maradona was injured that ain’t Messi’s fault.. Lahm himself had stated that in 2014 WC, the Argentina team were very reliant on Messi, they just passed him the ball and waited for him to do something…similar to Maradona in 86.. No single player can win anything…you need a well functioning team to win trophies which what both Maradona and Messi have..
@d2xr
Жыл бұрын
Even if Messi wins the World Cup, Shaka from ESPN would rank him #10 in his world famous power rankings
@yousefb6741
Жыл бұрын
Messi is the goat whether he wins the World Cup or not but if he wins the trophy he’s only going to distance himself from the rest of the goat candidates. With that said my list is 1. Messi 2. Maradona 3. Pele 4. C. Ronaldo 5. Zidane 6. Beckenbauer 7. Ronaldo (Brazilian) 8. Ronaldinho 9. George Best 10. Cruyff
@emmanuelewenyi9434
Жыл бұрын
nice list::: I will only alter the list by putting cruyf at 5, put 6 at 10.
@gwejay
Жыл бұрын
Messi is basically Maradona + the goals. We've seen pace merchants (Mbappe,Ronaldo) and pure poachers (Haaland, Ronaldo, Gerd Muller) come along in every generation. But we have yet to see players like Maradona and Messi dribble and passing/playmaking ability with the ball. The fact Maradona was even in the goat debate with Pele when Pele scored a outrageous amount of goals while Maradona doesn't really have big goal scoring numbers says it all. Football ability matters.
@daniaaal
Жыл бұрын
Not to forget, Messi is also in the conversation for best playmaker ever too, alongside players like Cruyff and Zidane in that regard
@Spacecowboyyy
Жыл бұрын
To reduce Mbappe and Ronaldo(Portuguese or Brazilian) to pace merchants is criminal, no ball knowledge
@Sircoochie
Жыл бұрын
Pace merchants - messi is as fast Poachers - messi scores more Creators - messi assists more
@zaidabraham7310
Жыл бұрын
@@Sircoochie Messi does not have a lot of pace since like 2013 or 2014 where he had a bunch of injury issues. In a full sprint, many players would beat him. But he still has great acceleration and deceleration, excellent dribbling, and good upper body strength which allows him to make up for it.
@toyosioyejobi309
Жыл бұрын
You say merchant like it's a useless part of the game so can we say ball control merchant or assist merchant? 😂 You're crazy . And ronaldo has many assist and many parts to his game
@jamesconnoley5752
Жыл бұрын
Portugal team on paper twice as good as Argentina. Says it all
@tamambuldum
Жыл бұрын
He was already greatest of all time many years ago like Arsene Wenger said.
@TimedOut4noReason
Жыл бұрын
Messi is the goat and it ends there. Its no longer a subjective thing. Pele won 2 world cups and yes i said 2 bc i dont count him playing one game in group stages while garincha won brazil the world cup. Also he arguably had the greatest international teams of all time and no offside rule which significantly helped attackers. Sorry but pele was a great player in his era and thats it. Maradona is better than pele but maradona doesn’t come close to messi club achievements and doesn’t have a copa america so he also loses to messi. R9 was the most talented footballer ever imo but injuries and not winning the ucl harms his legacy. Dinho had everything and won everything but he just didn’t play at the top for too long so messi wins again. Cr37 is not even worth debating sorry
@TMZahida226
Жыл бұрын
Thank you TIFO for the most calm and rational discussion about the places of Messi and CR7 in the pantheon of Football. I especially like the idea of the greatest player in the world being ephemeral pre Messi/CR7 and the idea of Messi/CR7 as representative of football ideology. I hadn't considered that.
@baTonkaTruck
Жыл бұрын
There’s an interview clip in “Messi: A God Amongst Men” where the interviewer asks (not sure the interviewee): - Who’s better Messi or Ronaldo? - Messi - Why? - Messi is natural I agree there’s something mechanical about Ronaldo that’s awe-inspiring. But I get this emotional, almost spiritual feeling while watching Messi.
@xavier.mauricio
Жыл бұрын
I think if you answer this question with any certainty, all you're saying is that you haven't considered the question enough. Hardly anyone working in football media or closely watching the game today has enough of an idea of just *how good* Pelé was, or Maradona, or Di Stefano, or Puskas, or Cruyff, or Garrincha, or whoever. Even those who were alive then and are alive now are so frequently dismissive of the modern crop of players that it just seems like old-peopleness. All I can say, all any of us can really say, is who is the best we've seen. And if you're my age, the best you've seen is Messi. There are no questions about it.
@xavier.mauricio
Жыл бұрын
@Netaji-The British Slayer I think Puskas and Garrincha fall short of GOAT standards, but I think they deserve consideration for top 10, maybe even top 5. I can't say for sure, because I haven't watched them like that.
@AndyCampbellMusic
Жыл бұрын
I am old enough to have watched all the greats from Pele, through Puskas, Di Stefano, Cruyff, George Best, Beckenbauer, Maradona and a few not so well known, such as Jimmy Johnson, Jim Baxter, Stanley Matthews (played till he was 50) and many more.. For many years, Pele was the best player I had ever seen but the little man from Argentina, tops them all.. In general I agree, many people will tend to favour players they saw in their youth or who played for their teams, countries etc. Not all do. They love the art, skill and entertainment provided by the greats. The little man from Argentina was gifted by evolution and genetics with a set of skills, that he honed by practice and hard work, into the greatest player I have ever seen.. Yes some could jump higher, hit a ball harder, juggle the ball a little more deftly or run faster but Messi can do ALL of those, things, to an extremely high level. The others had maybe one or two of those skills, he has ALL of them.
@xavier.mauricio
Жыл бұрын
@@AndyCampbellMusic incredible to hear your perspective, Andy! The best part of the internet is getting to see this sort of stuff.
@ルリ-n3z
Жыл бұрын
@@AndyCampbellMusic damn sir, just how old are you? hope you have good life
@CrazyFanaticMan
Жыл бұрын
Very reasonable comment, I approve
@TiwariAbhishek_
Жыл бұрын
Earlier the debate was messi to win the cup and now hater will say he will won, but with a stronger team? How could just a span of 20 days decide who's better at mere footballing abilities.
@carlosrodriquezofficial
Жыл бұрын
It is extremely difficult to say, comparing players is always a hard thing to do given that each player is different in both position on the pictch aswell as playing style, but each player is also at the mercy of factors beyond their control. You don't win games/titles alone, football is a team sport. In the end, by a very slim margin, Messi is the best for me tho. Players like CR7, R9, Maradonna, Pele (and more i'm forgetting) are close behind Messi and maybe recency bias is also at play here, but all things considered i think Messi is the best.
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
i agree with your entire logic, but for me Ronaldo is slightly better than all the rest, but i agree 100% with your theory, and i would actually say ronaldo and messi stand alone as the goats
@mikesingh6099
Жыл бұрын
I got into soccer because of Thierry Henry and the invincibles. I thought, “man football will never get better than this”. And then I witnessed Messi and Ronaldo, and I was completely wrong lol. I’m just happy I got to witness it.
@HuyNguyen-ck7hl
Жыл бұрын
As someone new to football (soccer) in the past few years, love the channel and this particular episode really resonated. Coming as a hockey fan, I see a lot of the parallels in the Messi-Ronaldo debate with Crosby-Ovechkin. Fascinating points that really made a lot of sense.
@82not_Chris
Жыл бұрын
cant compare people of different generations football's a completely different game now than 20 years ago never mind 30, 50, 80 years ago, but he's far and away the best of his generation
@csbdcsbd8728
Жыл бұрын
How is he far and away the best of his generation
@nicolasho7664
Жыл бұрын
@@csbdcsbd8728 He's statistically the best goalscorer, best playmaker, best dribbler, and most influential player of this era. While Ronaldo may come close to his raw goal tally, Messi is the most complte attacking player of this generation by a mile.
@82not_Chris
Жыл бұрын
@@csbdcsbd8728 because of how he plays football better than anyone
@csbdcsbd8728
Жыл бұрын
@@nicolasho7664 but why are you using just dribbling as an example. Why do you fair to give out loads of attributes such as Ronaldo being arguably the best header of all time?
@csbdcsbd8728
Жыл бұрын
@@82not_Chris right nice response but how does he play football better than anyone
@Swaggattack71
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo - all time great level goal scorer, has won everything at an individual and club level, champion of his continent, countless records Messi - all that + a World Cup while being one of the greatest playmakers this game as ever seen.
@diegoavila8815
Жыл бұрын
I feel like Messi has had all time great moments, statistics and awards in every competition he’s played in. Domestic League, Domestic Cup, Champions League, Copa America and in 2014 he had an amazing World Cup but we hadn’t seen him score in the KO stages and this World Cup he’s added that to his career. There’s no competition you can say that Messi hasn’t left an all time great legacy in and it’s so difficult to say that that’s not what makes someone the greatest of all time.
@fuaddanial2029
Жыл бұрын
I think the big misconcept when people talk about Messi is how inconceivable his ability is, and in return we should not aspire to it. I have heard a few commentators say, Messi way of playing is so inexplicable that coaches shouldnt tell their students to learn from Messi on account of the sheer talent he possess. He is magician of the sport, and very few can do what he does, but this magical aspect of his gameplay diminishes the very hard--earned intelligence aspect that comes into play. And although many would only dream to dribble like Messi, many of his other godly abilities are still rooted in a great understanding of the game. Passing and vision especially. Whilst his dribbling and finishing is absolutely phenomenal, whast makes Messi so efficient is how he reacts to each opportunity. He is by far the most rational player in the game. He never waste any chances, never tries for 40-yard screamers, everything is purposeful. He is a master of reading the game and renown for almost 'dissappearing' 15-20 minutes of the match to analyse the best way to approach the defender at any particular game. This intelligence is to me what makes Messi the GOAT
@gazmendkajmolli4858
Жыл бұрын
1:45 there is a weird narrative that Maradona dragged his teams and although I wasn’t there to dispute this with my own experience, with the information available I don’t think that’s a fair conclusion. Argentina won the World Cup in 1978 without Maradona, won it in 1986 with Maradona a masterclass and then reached the finals again in 1990 when Maradona objectively (both statistically and in the opinion of people that watched) played poorly.
@IWannatalkpodcast
8 ай бұрын
The 78 WC was a fix, we know that now. The rest I agree with and I'm old enough to remember Mexico 86
@mavrayne
Жыл бұрын
Anyone who isn't a Ronaldo fanboy (not to take anything away from what he has achieved) & actually watches football, knows there is no debate. Messi is the GOAT whether he wins the WC or not. Even as a Brazil fan, I'm hoping he does though, for his sake & to shut down this 'debate'.
@JohnDoe-dn9ez
Жыл бұрын
One way to end the comparison (or prove that it never existed) is this: How long can you sit through a highlights reel of Messi's plays vs one of Ronaldo's?
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo's highlights are easily better and more varied, messi's are boring and the same
@JohnDoe-dn9ez
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow Then there is no comparison for you, right?
@BasedinReality1984
Жыл бұрын
All of Messi's goals are the same.
@Keysersoze786
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow delusional
@pablobuquet2534
Жыл бұрын
I can watch hours and hours of messi, but only 1 hour of Ronaldo. The way Messi still has the ball in almost all situations is just unreal to me as a guy who loves to dribble
@mmdip2001
Жыл бұрын
Has there been any objective analysis done on factors that determine GOAT status? Would see something on this topic from #tifo folks!
@simarsingh2874
Жыл бұрын
If Messi was English, he would have been declared the best ever 5 years back. These debates are useless.
@gumdeo
Жыл бұрын
Ha! If Messi was English, he would be Sir Lionel Messi by now.
@george5464
Жыл бұрын
He was declared the best ever in 2011…
@sharkmiiiscool
Жыл бұрын
He isn't. Pelé is and no one will ever be able to take that post. It simply can't be done. Every single thing any modern footballer does, Pelé already did, and many of them he came up with. 3 world cups. Messi is amazing but number 2 at best.
@crobisbobis
Жыл бұрын
Its easily Messi. Cristiano has never had that Genius quality that makes people unable to comprehend and applaud brilliance. There is only 1 man that has completed Football and its Messi,
@alexforni
Жыл бұрын
Maradona or messi? are you guys kidding? both !!!!!! the only thing you have to look is the human part and the records !!!! messi he is humble and a really nice person and hi gives people hope and dreams and that anything is possible
@alibarznji2000
Жыл бұрын
If he wins this world cup he'll be the greatest of all time, absolutely no contest. I mean Ronaldo in my opinion is close, but after that there is no contest whatsoever. Ronaldo will be remembered for the sheer drive and dedication to football and his clutch moments can't be overlooked, But Messi will be remembered by his pure "playing with the ball" moments. Both of them are great in their own ways, but as I said Messi will come out on top.
@arnold-hu4vk
Жыл бұрын
which 'clutch' moments? genuinely interested to know
@tyronelorenzovalentio3414
11 ай бұрын
@@arnold-hu4vkHe has many So does and he’s got a world cup😂
@4CelciusDegree
Жыл бұрын
I don't mean to offend anybody but a majority of Ronaldo fans are children who idolize Ronaldo because of his physical traits and charisma while matured adults can clearly see how unmatched Messi is at the pitch
@princeanime7408
Жыл бұрын
Complete nonsense. Messi has been the best for 16 years in a row. Nether Maradona nor Pele did that. No one has. He is the GOAT whit or Whithout a World Cup
@sld1776
Жыл бұрын
86 Argentina was better than this team. The team was set up to get the best out of Maradona. But those very good players, man.
@AveenB
Жыл бұрын
86 side was weaker than this? Check this... Plus-minus measures the impact of a player on their team’s performance. Originally invented by hockey general managers, every player on the ice is awarded a plus when their team scores a goal while every opponent player on ice gets a minus. The higher the plus-minus rating, the higher the net positive of goals scored for a player’s team. In terms of plus-minus, the best player has the highest plus-minus score, and the worst player has the lowest. 1. Julián Álvarez • Argentina +11 2. Theo Hernández • France +10 3. Kylian Mbappé • France +9 Jordan Pickford • England +9 Jude Bellingham • England +9 John Stones • England +9 Hugo Lloris • France +9 Antoine Griezmann • France +9 9. Harry Maguire • England +8 Cristian Romero • Argentina +8 Luke Shaw • England +8 Enzo Fernández • Argentina +8 César Azpilicueta • Spain +8 Harry Kane • England +8 Declan Rice • England +8 Olivier Giroud • France +8 Rodrigo De Paul • Argentina +8 1. Jorge Burruchaga • Argentina +10 2. Jorge Valdano • Argentina +9 Oleksandr Zavarov • Soviet Union +9 Elzo Coelho • Brazil +9 José Luis Brown • Argentina +9 Alemão • Brazil +9 Nery Pumpido • Argentina +9 Edinho • Brazil +9 Branco • Brazil +9 Oscar Ruggeri • Argentina +9 Careca • Brazil +9 Leovegildo Lins da Gama Júnior • Brazil +9 Diego Maradona • Argentina +9 Júlio César • Brazil +9 Carlos Roberto Gallo • Brazil +9 Ricardo Giusti • Argentina +
@AveenB
Жыл бұрын
Statistically, the 1986 team was better as they had more players with +9 and +10 than the 2022 side.
@guaizhaizhai
Жыл бұрын
to those who play football knows Messi is clearly miles ahead of Cristiano, there was never a debate
@dennisaddo2609
Жыл бұрын
Cristiano Ronaldo is the greatest human footballer of all time. Messi and Maradona are from another planet.
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo is literally better.
@Batman1998-
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow but he isn’t, open your eyes . Ronaldo is useless without a goal
@pamilerinluwoye9104
Жыл бұрын
Prove it
@jimsim8736
Жыл бұрын
@@ElDragow Such a ridiculous fanboy opinion, you like all Ronaldo cheerleaders clearly haven’t watched Messi’s career.
@C-OBrien
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo could win 3 world cups and messi would still be the goat
@totsh2056
Жыл бұрын
One of the best discussions I've heard on the subject. I wish there was more content like this available.
@nicolasmaloney6985
Жыл бұрын
Why is it during these debates Messi’s entire creative assist numbers aren’t weighted as they should be. Since Messi has made his debut in football. He’s scored more goals than anyone else including Ronaldo all while providing far and away more assists than anyone else. How is this even possible… and why is this not given the reverence it deserves. Goal scoring is one thing but to score the most while also create the most… well that’s simple never in the history of football been achieved.
@leonidasking7502
Жыл бұрын
Yes
@kryhcho
Жыл бұрын
Hindsight 2022..... Now hes the g.o.a.t.. no questions asked. 2 goals and thats Minor in the grand Scope of things. His leadership in this WC was legendary. And im brazillian ffs.
@Macefacewindu
Жыл бұрын
Fuck yeah he's the clear GOAT
@gastonlanteri1147
Жыл бұрын
Numbers from 2012 seasson across the globe: Premier League Champion: Manchester City. 93 goals League 1 Champion: Montpellier. 68 goals Serie A Champion: Juventus. 79 goals (Max scorer Zlatan with 28 goals, Max passer Pirlo with 13 assists) Bundesliga Champion: Borussia Dortmund. 89 goals (Max scorer Huntelaar with 29 goals, Max passer Riverí with 12 assists) Monster-Peak Leonel: 91 goals and 37 assists
@gastonlanteri1147
Жыл бұрын
Literally, the guy was scoring as much as the best teams of the other leagues, while doubling (and even tripling) the amount of assists of the best passers of each one of those leagues. How can you do that, is beyond human understanding.
@alvirarahman2690
Жыл бұрын
1) Messi 2) Pele 3) Maradona My personal top 3.
@gouravghosh588
Жыл бұрын
It's not even up for debate anymore. MESSI is the GOD of football let alone 🐐
@Nyte-Owl
Жыл бұрын
Messi. End of story.
@ayakid921
Жыл бұрын
Maradona is the most talented ever. Messi is the best ever, CR7 is the greatest athlete to ever play football. That's how it works in my head anyway
@Keysersoze786
Жыл бұрын
Messi more talented
@juvenilegolden
Жыл бұрын
Because Ronaldo is 6'2" with muscles, he's deemed the best athlete when Messi is smaller but has a great physique and has played the same way his whole career. Ronaldo was a very exciting player for a very small period of time and then became a poacher. I think that shows who the better athlete is. Also youtube Messi headers and tell me he can't jump/header.
@solac388
Жыл бұрын
@@juvenilegolden agree. It's just a height difference. Many players that have commented they're surprised at how friggin strong Messi is. His legs are solid
@merrekeste3385
Жыл бұрын
FOR ME MESSI IS NR 1 THE GOAT THE BEST FOOTBALL PLAYER EVER. WC DON'T MATTER HE TOOK THEM 2 THE FINALS 2 TIMES. BUT PEAK PRIME YEARS MESSI AND RONALDINHO IS THE BEST I'VE EVER SEEN AND ENJOYED GENUINELY BUT THE LONGEVITY MESSI🐐⚽️❤️💯🪄😍🥰🗣📽📽 HAS PROVEN IS JUST UNMATCHED SO HE TAKES IT BY FAR HE GOT IT ALL.
@goonerland8195
Жыл бұрын
This is for both men on the show: Messi's team is NOT! "far superior" to Maradona's '86 team. That team had players who'd won league tiles and cups 20 times (in Latin America and Europe) and Copa Libertadores 4 times between them!!!! Come on!!!! Valdano, Burruchaga, Goicochia, Jose Brown, Pumpido, Enrique, Batista, Rugerri, Olarticoechea, Cuciufo, Giusti and others, were champions!! what are you guys talking about??? I know you guys are young and have seen clips of '86, and that's not your fault, but come on!!! Such info is only a few clicks away.
@juvenilegolden
Жыл бұрын
People claim Ronaldo is the best athlete because he's 6'2" with muscles. He played an exciting brand of football for a small amount of time and then became a poacher. Messi has a great physique and is a strong as a bull and has never changed his style of play. He's still exciting at the age of 35 but Ronaldo has become a goalscorer. Tell me Messi isn't the best athlete as well.
@aeroxyz5626
Жыл бұрын
The Goat 🐐 completed football at the age of 35. The Greatest Football Player Of All Times. 🐐 Champs: U-20 WC 2005 Olympic Gold Medal 2008 Copa America 2021 Finalissima 2022 World Cup 2022 ⭐⭐⭐
@Adean-wl7tk
Жыл бұрын
“Other than Messi the Argentina team is high end average”!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Di Maria is the most underrated player of all time! He is the invisible hero of Argentina 🥹
@hemispheres789
Жыл бұрын
Before the final: yes, he is After the final: yes, and now the debate is over
@click8708
Жыл бұрын
The reason I think why the World Cup doesn't matter with being the goat, is when players like George Best are mentioned, If Maradona, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Maldini, Cristiano etc all played for the Faroe Islands (not at the same time) then they have 0 chance of any international success, but that does not discredit them one iota from being great. Messi is the greatest at LEAST of this generation with or without a World Cup, but the sad thing is he NEEDS to win it to convince people of the already obvious truth.
@SanxBile
Жыл бұрын
Is Messi the best player ever? Let's wait until he's 35 and then let the result of one game decide. Seems like a logical way to evaluate his entire body of work.
@ielitecod933
Жыл бұрын
Exactly what I have been saying for ages now. A player doesn’t win a world cup, a team does. So judging a player based on team succes is just dumb. Look at what the player does individually on the field to judge him. Messi is the best, even if he plays for the worst team in the world and doesn’t win a team trophy… A player like Haaland won’t win a single trophy for his nation, does that make him a worse player than ‘world cup winner Mbappé’? Let’s see if Mbappé would win the world cup for Norway….
@tyronelorenzovalentio3414
11 ай бұрын
@@ielitecod933Mbappe is better than Haaland
@MattandJose
Жыл бұрын
Halaand and Mbappe will never reach the heights of Ronaldo and Messi. Yes those strikers will score goals, and a lot of them. However, Messi and Ronaldo have done transcends all the goals they scored. Especially Messi, he completely eclipsed Maradona and Pele. When people talk about Messi they compare him with Maradona or Pele, but when people talk about Ronaldo, they compare him to Messi. There is a level, that I think neither Mbappe or Halaand will ever reach.
@jorged06
Жыл бұрын
Brits tend to level ronaldo vs messi, cause cr7 played in the epl. Ronaldo isn't in the top 5 best player of all time! Great scorer, wonderful, but not a team player like messi Maradona pele cruyff!!
@marianchicago4002
Жыл бұрын
Man, I was really hoping for Messi vs Ronaldo final, their last World Cup, both missing that trophy, I would had expected for both to be in the mood and turn back the clock a bit
@FatTodd
Жыл бұрын
Timing for ronaldo was all wrong, last season he seemed half decent but his legs now are completely shot
@legone.6677
Жыл бұрын
Nonsense that Maradona had a bad team. Messi had a team with so many new players, and if you watched every match from saudi to france, he was clearly leading them to the trophy with almost NO mistakes. For his age he played PERFECT football. His every move so calculated it almost felt scripted.
@emmanuelewenyi9434
Жыл бұрын
1. Messi 2. Pele 3. Maradonna 4. CR7 5. Cruyf 6.R9 7.Zidane 8.Ronaldinho 9. Franz Beckenbeur 10. George Best
@lilbaz8732
Жыл бұрын
Ok winning a trophy doesn't make you a better player. But being the best player in the worlds best team has to give you some kudos. On top of everything else the answer has to be objectively yes. It's all subjective though. Football is entertainment snd produces emotional responses. A wolves fan might say steve bull is the greatest player that ever lived and to them that would be 100% correct. But it's an enjoyable discussion.
@abdullahmua
8 ай бұрын
I don't understand why some people compared Messi to Cristiano. Their stats, trophies, awards, and world records shows Messi is ahead of Cristiano.
@K_masters
4 ай бұрын
I don't know if he's the best ever but he was already on the mount rushmore before the world cup. I'm 32 and he is the best i've ever seen by some distance.
@jamesconnoley5752
Жыл бұрын
Maradona players in a weak team in 86 Hahaha. Shut up. No one could of named 4 Argentian players before the world cup. They lost to Saudia Arabia ffs. His dragged em there and as it went on they all stood tall and performed. That is because of Messi
@gastonlanteri1147
Жыл бұрын
Messi didn't need the World Cup to be the Greatest Of All Times, he already was. He needed it to prove to the rest of the argentinian he could be as great as Maradona was, because at the end, Messi is argentinian, and for an argentinian all that matters is to be viewed as a winner for your country. Had not Messi won the ultimate trophy, he would have retired being the biggest athlete that has ever walked this world BUT not in Argentina. He would have lived his life under the shadow of Diego. Now Lio can say he is as great as Diego ever was, and argentinian people finally have surrended to him. He is the best player in the planet now, AND in Argentina too.
@bolshevikalgerien8415
Жыл бұрын
You cant say that a team that contained Ruggeri Passarella Burruchaga Valdano Borghi is inferior to the 22 wc squad
@craigy977
8 ай бұрын
What a load of bullshit . 86 argentina were just as good as this side . This side isnt full of stars , its some good players working hard to give the superstar of the team the platform to play . Without messi argentina dont win . End of
@johnpacino007
Жыл бұрын
You need to ask a wide age of people that are not only of today's generation But people from different past era's that watched other great players when they played It'll boil down to genarational exposure & preference
@samoso6979
Жыл бұрын
No such thing as the greatest of all time. It’s subjective and most ppl haven’t watched football since it was invented.
@pablobandeira3540
Жыл бұрын
Not even closer to Pele international...and champions league not even mention 😂😂😂😂
@ElDragow
Жыл бұрын
Ronaldo and Messi for me are the undisputed goats. I respect Maradona and Pele, but i honestly think anyone with a footballing brain knows Ronaldo and Messi are the 2 goats. And at that point it's subjective in my opinion how you rank them. Totally different players, totally different styles, totally different journeys. For me Ronaldo is number 1 and messi is number 2. But Maybe saying Ronaldo is 1.a and Messi is 1.b would be more correct i guess, because thy stand at the top together
@mehyeah2931
Жыл бұрын
You’re just completely wrong. How can a service player like Ronaldo be better than someone that’s more complete at attacking? Football is about trophies goals and assists in which Messi is better at in every way. The only reason why ronaldo had a few more goals is because he has 148 games extra played. Additionally, just watch how Messi plays regularly dribbling past 4 players at a time Ronaldo has not done that. You’re delusional. Messi is in a different stratosphere. Messi is individually the best player to step on the pitch and with 7 Ballon Dors to back it up.
@Koessi
Жыл бұрын
Messi is better at passing shooting dribbling Vision freekicks almost everything except Headers! How is CR7 a better football player thats just illogical
@BloodyofHistory
Жыл бұрын
@@mehyeah2931 let's appreciate the opinion guys, for HIM, ronaldo the goat, but for FOOTBALL, messi is clear
@yosdef
Жыл бұрын
"Maradona's team in 86 was inferior". Be that as it may, take messi off the 22 team and they're not even close to a great team. They have some great players but the entire system was designed around messi
@andylikesstuffchannel
Жыл бұрын
Anyone with half a brain knows the best player of all time is when that player is that great at there time. You can't say the best player of all time.
@tyronelorenzovalentio3414
11 ай бұрын
86 Argentina is not an inferior side at all in comparison to Messi 2022 When u have a striker called bastituta
@hazard1080
6 ай бұрын
It was never a debate. It was just so satisfying he won the WC with style and humiliated all the haters
@DraculaSon-lv1kw
2 ай бұрын
The by far the Greatest player of all times.. Lionel Messi 🐐
@thomasrichards3760
Жыл бұрын
Messi vs Ronaldo debate had always bored me. We’ve been blessed to watch two of the greatest footballers to ever kick a ball - and media wants to do is pick a loser.
@pablobandeira3540
Жыл бұрын
Far away to be compare to Pele or mbappe international level, and champions League not his thing lol
@cwnery
Ай бұрын
Messi is the Goat, is not even close to the esconde olace
@bravosierra2447
Жыл бұрын
He is now 🏆
@HavendaleBlvd80
Жыл бұрын
Sealed the deal. I believe it now. Pele is second to Messi. May he rest in peace.
@dixonlim4964
Жыл бұрын
I have never seen anyone played football like that ! Scoring amazing goals week in week out and dribbling past defenders like against school boys plus the vision of his passing .....but we'll miss him .
@MrLebowski1980
Жыл бұрын
It's just not a debate as to whether Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo... Messi is arguably the best passer, best dribbler, best finisher and most intelligent footballer in history.
@GigiSyd
Жыл бұрын
goat: Messi / most iconic player: Maradona
@luciferdevilson6678
Жыл бұрын
Yes anymore questions about him?
@MrLebowski1980
Жыл бұрын
It's not a case of "pick your poison" at all... If as a football journalist you think Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi, then you simply do not know the game .
@Maiso23m
Жыл бұрын
Elaborate, because someone who thinks CR7 is slightly better may argue that he is a better goal scorer , and its undeniable that he has more international success(for now) and more champions league success ..
@MrLebowski1980
Жыл бұрын
@@Maiso23m How is Ronaldo a better goalscorer??.. He has 29 more goals in 140 more games, his chance conversion rate is not as good as messi's... I think I would need them to elaborate to be honest. Are you saying that because Ronaldo won the nations league that makes him better than messi, I'm not understanding.
@MrLebowski1980
Жыл бұрын
@@Maiso23m Messi has about 120 more assists in 140 less games.. If you wanna go on stats alone then its not a debate either.
@Maiso23m
Жыл бұрын
@@MrLebowski1980 he is a better goal scorer because he can score any which way , including headers and he has more goals , goals are more important than goal averages .
@Maiso23m
Жыл бұрын
@@MrLebowski1980 and no not nations league the Euro cup he won , and at least you couldn’t rebuttle the champions league success difference, which is the most important yearly trophy.
@avatarkana1161
Жыл бұрын
His not. But he has won the debate with Cr7
@kripeshnair1833
Жыл бұрын
it was such a boring interview
@xolasidziya8702
Жыл бұрын
My Goat Lionel Messi.
@JamesSmith-bl6rd
Жыл бұрын
Pele
@sreddi83
Жыл бұрын
This was a poorer team compared to 86
@huanpham3284
Жыл бұрын
During their prime, I believe DM is better. However, over the whole career, I think LM is better due to his longevity.
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