I was an atheist and sex addict for much of my life. My addiction ruined any relationships I might have had. There was so much money, time, effort, mental space given over to attaining that excitation and release that I today can't believe it. In my late 40's, after coming to Christ, I was still certain that God didn't really care about the things we do in the flesh. But after two years of walking with Jesus, the Holy Spirit in a single moment convicted me in my whole body, convinced me, and delivered me from the addiction that I had been under most of my life. The freedom I have now is so much greater than the compulsion I had before. I would never want to go back to it. I pray that all bound by addictions of any type be set free by the power of Christ. It is for freedom that we have been set free.
@gregmahler9506
11 ай бұрын
“Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.” 1 Corinthians 10:12-13 NASB1995 Praise God! The enemy usually tries to come hard after one shares a testimony like this so I would like to encourage you again with the above. Blessings to you in the name of the Lord!
@scottie8365
11 ай бұрын
God Bless you Brother! Jesus saved me from a 25+ year alcohol addition,even when I called on the name of Jesus I was still drinking ,still a lukewarm Christian ,still living in my sin,still thinking I could do it all by myself. Then last September I cried out to Jesus to help me because I couldn’t do it on my own anymore. I stopped drinking September,went to service in October and was Baptised in November and I have walked with the LORD ever since! 🙏
@theepitomeministry
11 ай бұрын
What a testimony! Thank you for sharing! God bless you in your new-found freedom!
@jonmerrick9654
11 ай бұрын
Praise God brother! 🙌🏻 Similar testimony here
@wayned803
11 ай бұрын
There are clearly cases where attachment to sex causes spiritual harm. But, given Ortlund's view that Christianity should primarily serve to make people happy in the "here and now" and give them hope for a hereafter, then why would he hold to a Romans 1 doctrine of homosexuality, especially in California??? This kind of view would put his congregation at serious odds with the surrounding culture. It puts a huge chasm between his church and potential gay converts (what do you do about the ones who are already legally married or have had gender reassignment, and possibly dependent children?), and how could you not expect the ones who do manage to extricate themselves from that lifestyle and convert not to wrestle with constant self-loathing, despair, and worries that God has already "given them up"? Where's the happiness in that? And as difficult as that situation would be for them, what do you do with the parishioners who have family in that lifestyle? Isn't that a ton of additional conflict and alienation just waiting to happen? Shouldn't we expect Ortlund to adopt a more progressive hermeneutic on this matter?
@blueeyes6653
11 ай бұрын
Thank you for this, brother! I was comfort actually when you said that Christianity is hard. Following Jesus is hard. I have said this many times and brothers and sisters look at me confused. They ask why and praise God they say it is easy for them and they have a zeal for God. I thought it was just me that has found Christianity to be hard. I often fight my temptations and i have plenty. My wife and i are Christians. I am the only Christian from my side of the family and I told my wife i feel like compromising just to be more welcomed by my parents and sisters but Praise God this is only our temporary home. I look forward everyday to be in God's kingdom so i won't feel so much temptation and feel so weak.
@ricksonora6656
11 ай бұрын
Stand strong 💪 Just make sure it’s holiness and the gospel that offends them, not you, and not imposing your values on them.
@broco6608
2 ай бұрын
@ricksonora6656 Christianity is supposed to be a place of rest. However, the good fight is walking day by day, moment by moment, believing this. Don't let the enemy rob you of a life of peace, rest, and hope in Christ. Circumstances are hard, but, even with hard circumstances Christians should be growing in their understanding of what it means to still be at peace on the inside as you go through each and every issue.
@donmcallister4382
11 ай бұрын
I've heard it said, "If you confuse you lose." Andy Stanley lost us with bringing unfortunate obfuscation over something that is very clear in Scripture. And worse, missed an opportunity to share a fuller presentation of the gospel as you highlighted. I really appreciate the clarity you brought here.
@kriegjaeger
11 ай бұрын
I've also been told; The Bible is meant to be understood. It should be represented as written. The moment you start adding to it like he did you are going astray.
@radscorpion8
2 ай бұрын
@@kriegjaeger so the Earth is only 7 days old, is that what you are saying?
@brianetheredge7323
11 ай бұрын
This old ex-Catholic needed to hear that last 3-ish minutes...again and again. God bless/thx for speaking boldly, from your heart, Pastor Gavin.
@KKZ27
11 ай бұрын
We Catholics love Jesus too!
@northstar2621
11 ай бұрын
@@KKZ27We know you do 😊
@DrBob-gr5ru
11 ай бұрын
Dr. O. I grew up in Georgia and went to Northpoint once while in college. I think Mr. Stanley continues to struggle with the Southern fundamentalist culture he grew up in that was often unthinking. But, he has fallen off the other side of the rail. His trajectory has been in a bad direction for a long time. In the post-Obergefell world, we MUST be clear on this. Matthew 19:1-11 is one of the most important Bible passages for our day. As a practicing physician, I fear for my license over this issue, given the direction of the professional societies on the LGBT issue. I appreciate your clarity and fleshing this out. Looking forward to further responses.
@benjaminwatt2436
11 ай бұрын
I think many of us feel the pressure to conform. I'm a high school teacher and it is scary considering how anti-Christian the modern culture is. I have determined to live by my convictions. I will not tolerate LGBT bullying, but I also am clear I do not agree with it. I respect students enough to call them by name and not a false pronoun
@mamuklutze6474
11 ай бұрын
May the Lord protect you and keep as you seek to " not conform to the patterns of this world..." These are scary times for health care providers as I am one. BUT UNTO HIM WHO IS ABLE... we commit our fates🙏🏽🙏🏽
@anthonycostello6055
11 ай бұрын
Calling "Chaste" an "old-fashioned" word means for most people today "obsolete." That is how you manipulate language; anything traditional is already taken as meaning "meaningless" or "defunct."
@megaloschemos9113
11 ай бұрын
The problem starts with making sin a part of our core identity. What's the most important thing in the world, falling in love and getting married or where we spend eternity? We don't build theology around our failure to have dominion over the desires of our flesh.
@thomassandoval8025
11 ай бұрын
Well said
@annodomini7250
11 ай бұрын
You do not even consider you are heterosexual you just are, just as homosexuals do; it may be hard for you to imagine being attracted to the same sex but you did not choose heterosexuality nor does the homosexual they just are. Now if you claim you chose heterosexuality then there is choice but I doubt you will.
@wejpasadena1
11 ай бұрын
This is the big issue. If a person calls himself or herself a Gay Christian they are accepting the first word as on par with the second and linked together. If a person says they are a Christian who struggles with same s*x attraction they are saying something very different.
@annodomini7250
11 ай бұрын
@@wejpasadena1 This is the big issue? the only big issue? It seems a certain type of Christian is fixated on less than one per cent of the population the big issue could equally be the fornicating Christians in the church.
@wejpasadena1
11 ай бұрын
@@annodomini7250 Yes, how we identify ourselves is huge! It defines our core concept of self. If we root our identity in Christ and in the struggle to reject sin and follow Him we are making clear that we embrace the work God has done and is doing in our hearts. In addition the term G*y itself is closely identified with a political/social agenda which is antithetical to Christian doctrine. Fornication is sinful, but right now there aren’t a lot of people insisting that the Church change its teaching on this subject. If there were, then that would be a big issue.
@onepingonlyplease
11 ай бұрын
I can tell Dr Ortlund is treating this issue very carefully. With kindness and compassion. I think of the seven churches in Revelation and I often wonder why these churches and how Jesus through John found errors and addressed them. So many of the apologetic videos out today talk a lot about sticking to the original churches led by the apostles, yet Revelation includes errors and corrections in these first, original churches. I bring that up because those faults Jesus found in the original churches seem to address this issue. The church in Ephesus had abandoned Christ’s teachings and the church of Pergamum had compromised its beliefs. Even the first churches dealt with this. I believe that Jesus needs to be the head of the church, the kingdom…not men. The deception and complacency and tolerance of worldliness and blindness to truth covered in this talk only works on men. Let’s stick with Jesus. He teaches godly truth with loving kindness, yet directly deals with it.
@kriegjaeger
11 ай бұрын
Amen!
@ChadGrindstaff
11 ай бұрын
Great message. Thanks. “Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.” “Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.” “Come as you are, leave as He is.”
@afrocraft1
11 ай бұрын
So you're now like Jesus?
@ChadGrindstaff
11 ай бұрын
@@afrocraft1 Jesus imputed righteousness is at work within me. His righteousness is my own.
@afrocraft1
11 ай бұрын
@@ChadGrindstaff Same with your gay church members then. 🤷🏽♂️
@bettymofokeng3404
11 ай бұрын
Thank you pastor for a loving ,crystal clear and Godly response, and give us understanding that people's eternity is at stake, it's living and best to be sincerely honest by speaking the Truth in a loving way🙏
@asg32000
11 ай бұрын
Thank you so much, Gavin. I deeply appreciate your work. God has poured out grace on you - please continue stewarding it for God's Church.
@bryanrobledo6872
11 ай бұрын
This was a good and charitable response. Thank you!
@sia9907
11 ай бұрын
I don't even understand what he means. The guy on the stage, not Gavin. Too much speaking around the issue.
@samueljennings4809
11 ай бұрын
@sia9907 I remember someone saying a while ago that Andy secretly affirms, but is not open about it, and is easing his congregation into it. I really hope that this isn’t true, since it’s manipulative, but it’s honestly starting to look like there’s merit to what they said.
@samueljennings4809
11 ай бұрын
@sia9907 I really hope that rumour isn’t true. Let’s pray for Andy, hé real needs it.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
@@samueljennings4809 Andy tries to balance love and truth, it's always going to be on the cutting edge. He sincerely believes the Bible fully, he's not on a slippery slope. I agree we should be careful but I believe he is having a successful ministry helping people overcome even in cases of sexuality.
@sia9907
11 ай бұрын
@@samueljennings4809He sounds like a politician, not a pastor. Also he looks VERY queer himself. And I mean queer specifically, not gay. That's where the lack of boundaries, and the 'circles not lines' comes in. Queer theology is... interesting.
@notavailable4891
11 ай бұрын
"We aren't trying to change Christian values, it's just that our interpretation of Christian values just-so-happens to correspond to modern, ideological values as much as possible without also scaring off too many people." Wow what a coincidence.
@micahprice2807
11 ай бұрын
Jesus absolutely drew lines… hard ones… he also made it clear the condition of those that ignored those lines.
@mcgilldi
11 ай бұрын
Yup
@psalm2764
7 ай бұрын
Clarity of the Truth is what killed the Messiah. The world is of the darkness, their deeds are evil.
@mavericktheace
11 ай бұрын
Jesus literally drew a line (John 8:6). And while it seems like it's in agreement with what Andy Stanley says, it is only in reference to violent punishment/execution of people for their sins. This is where you already agreed with Andy - we shouldn't abuse people because of their sinfulness. But we cannot be silent about what is sinful. We all are sinners, but turning a blind eye to anyone's sins is not loving.
@alexwood9206
11 ай бұрын
Great work Gavin! Humble and Biblical. Much needed in this conversation!
@PastorDavidBess
11 ай бұрын
Thank you Gavin. I've heard several analyses of the Andy Stanley situation. This one is the best so far. As always, I appreciate your Biblically-based, irenic tone.
@JCOJourney
11 ай бұрын
Nice Video! Speaking of western culture today, I think there is so much freedom that we may be blinded to the past and what God intended. Granted as a society, we still have sense of certain things that are wrong (rape, pedo, etc). I think the issue with same-sex marriage arrives as society seems to be more secular than the past, and trying to explain the dangers and issues to someone who doesn’t want to know Christ or have a preconceived notion about Him.
@kriegjaeger
11 ай бұрын
The first thing we learn about history is nobody learns from history. I recall a survey a few years ago that 25% of Protestants read the bible and 15% of Catholics. That may be a decade old now and I expect the number is even lower. The majority of people, let alone those claiming to be Christian, absolutely do not understand God's commands nor the reasons why he commands them.
@djpentz
11 ай бұрын
Thank you for the wisdom that you make so freely available.
@JamesClark-le7hu
11 ай бұрын
I stop whatever I’m doing and watch the video when Pastor Ortlund uploads
@GracieAdams-y6n
6 ай бұрын
Thank you! This was a wonderful, compassionate message!
@ProfYaffle
11 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for addressing this
@theepitomeministry
11 ай бұрын
Amazing response as always, Dr. Ortlund! You clearly have a pastoral gifting from the Spirit. Thank you for letting God use you in that capacity.
@joshuamyers7510
11 ай бұрын
Thank you, pastor. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I sorely needed to hear those last three minutes. Praise our Lord Christ for all things. Holy Spirit, give us strength and grace.
@FOTAP97
11 ай бұрын
Thank you brother, the Truth is Beautiful, and it will unite all who will. ❤
@ToeTag1968
11 ай бұрын
I know this is a bit of a non sequitur, but it occurred to me in reading through several early church fathers, and even up to Anselm, who Gavin mentions in this video, just how little they all refer to Mother Mary. Her position and veneration in Catholic and Orthodox traditions really is a modern invention. I'd encourage my brothers and sisters in Christ to seek out their wisdom. And, in all things, weigh their words against the holy scriptures. I think you'll find that not much has changed under the sun.
@laikwanstone8929
10 ай бұрын
You are an outstanding brother. Thank you and praise God.
@bartholomewa9294
11 ай бұрын
Thank you for holding firm to scripture on this brother
@AndriyShekhovtsov
11 ай бұрын
This is a GREAT ANALYSYS of Andy's sermon/answer!! Thank you. I had those same reservations, as I've listened to his sermon.
@CrossAndWindMinistries
11 ай бұрын
I was in a committed same-sex relationship, active in an affirming church, then I clinically died for 22 minutes, and experienced God’s harsh judgement of my sexual sin, then endured darkness and the demonic torment in hell. Please don’t be deceived.
@RationalistMH
7 ай бұрын
And how do we know ur not just lying on the internet?
@CrossAndWindMinistries
7 ай бұрын
@@RationalistMH because it’s all documented in medical records, and witness statements.
@RationalistMH
7 ай бұрын
@@CrossAndWindMinistries no, it seems to me sociopathic and psychopathic people will say anything to justify their homophobia. Your bigotry is not excused because you made up a fake story. Your bigotry murders people and is responsible for the centuries long oppression of gay people whose humanity you deny by reducing them to ‘sexual sin’.
@RationalistMH
7 ай бұрын
@@CrossAndWindMinistries all you ex gays were exposed for your lies long ago.. your jig is up!
@MB-nx9tq
3 ай бұрын
@@CrossAndWindMinistriesI understand, if what you say is true, we live in a universe controlled by evil as Isaiah says. I think as rational beings we must acknowledge that the universe is cruel and indifferent, its alleged creator must have the same qualities. If I ever were to believe in this deity, of course I would “worship” it and beg for my life, but reason and the Bible suggest this is an evil deity, and perhaps it’s better to worship the evil and capricious than to be tortured forever. But then again, we are easily deluded creatures, which perhaps is why you experienced what you did.
@Masoneer
3 ай бұрын
I was so delighted to find your channel after watching your recent video of the Alex'O'Connor debate, and then listening to your nuanced takes on climate change and creation/evolution. It was also refreshing to see your format, tone, and kindness with how you approach polarizing issues. You explained how you think these issues face friction in the western Christian communities largely because of the social/political/cultural dynamics at play, and not on just their scientific basis, in fact you give examples of the scientific consensus on human caused climate change and the overwhelming evidence, and how Christians should actually be embracing climate change and be good stewards of the earth. So when I got to this video, I was extremely disappointed in your take here. It seems to me you have a giant blindspot on this issue, as it has nearly identical parallels with climate change and evolution, and are plagued with the same cultural misunderstandings and social/political noise. Sexuality in nature is very diverse, and scientific understanding of homosexuality also has overwhelming consensus and evidence, it has been found in countless other species and has always existed in humanity. Furthermore, nature, nurture, and psychology all come in to play here. It is clear from the evidence that humans do not choose their sexuality, it emerges from countless variables during development and psychology, and it is very much a spectrum, and not just straight or gay. Also, you can not will yourself to be different than you are, and attempts to do so by religious groups have caused those involved irreparable harm and suffering. I implore you to explore the evidence of human sexuality and what I have said with the same fervor you have with climate change. Now, I know this video is 8 months old now, and it could be your view has changed since then, but I'm hoping I can at least help point you towards what could be a defining moment for you to understand a new perspective, even if you still disagree.
@scottie8365
11 ай бұрын
There’s a difference between living with sin and living IN sin. If you continue to keep living in sin do you really love Jesus? Are you a new creation? Sexual sin is highlighted in the Bible specifically because it’s a sin against our own bodies,and our bodies don’t belong to us anymore,they were brought with a high price. And there was a reason Paul used and coined the word “arsenokoites”,people would do well to research into that and where it’s from. God Bless all 🙏
@PaulVanZandt-o9x
10 ай бұрын
Every time I hear an evangelical speak on the subject of homosexuality, the word that stands out is “BUT.” “We Christians love you gays so much, BUT . . .” In my experience, evangelicals are so busy protecting God's holiness, that they don't reach out with love. Or to put it another way, evangelicals would rather run the risk of being judgmental, and unwelcoming than take a chance that someone - anyone - would think them guilty of being impious. I didn't attend the Unconditional Conference, but it seems to have emphasized God's love instead of God's holiness. I think maybe that's a good thing, though I'm sure many will disagree. Dr. Ortlund, I take your point about being careful not to sell a false bill of goods. But, will we draw people into the fold by showing them the hard edge of holiness? or by holding them in a warm embrace of love? How does a non-Christian apprehend the kindness of Jesus you spoke about so passionately in your closing if not through the uncritical (dare I say “unconditional”) love of a believer? We all have cultural blind spots? Without a doubt. But could the Stanley critics be the ones with the blind spot?
@toddcarll
5 ай бұрын
Please note the point(s) made regarding "loving" and how it is defined. Something we can be certain of is that never will God's Holiness "conflict" with His Love. It is certain that if we are "loving" another in that which is sinful/unholy before God, we are most assuredly not loving them. The way in which we reach out and are clear that we are "one beggar showing another where to get bread" and our hearts are soft in delivering "tough love" is certainly worth working through
@PaulVanZandt-o9x
5 ай бұрын
@@toddcarll I'm not sure what you mean when you write, “It is certain that if we are 'loving' another in that which is sinful/unholy before God, we are most assuredly not loving them.” I guess the part which most confuses me is when you say, “loving another IN THAT WHICH IS unholy/sinful”? Does that mean that until gays/lesbians repent of their unholy/sinful behavior, they are unworthy of love? Or is it more of a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin kind of deal where Christians ought to love gays and lesbians BUT hate that they are gay? If the latter, ought we to hate the fact that gays/lesbians have same sex attraction (i.e. it's the same sex attraction which is sinful/unholy) or only hate it if they have a gay or lesbian relationship? I'm also unclear about delivering tough love with a soft heart. Not sure what that would look like. You write that part is “worth working through,” so maybe you're not sure what that would look like either? I love the quote from Spurgeon! I had never heard it before. I wish I could see that evangelicals were living that quote, but I do not. I see judgment and a sense of moral superiority, especially where this issue of gays and lesbians are concerned - like one beggar is nicer, better dressed, and doesn't smell as bad. Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts!
@danielbrown2379
11 ай бұрын
Hey Gavin. Do you have any content on contraception? I recently watched one of McDowell‘s videos hosting a conversation about it and have been looking into Luther and Calvin’s thoughts on the issue. It seems like it could be a fairly big issue of unacknowledged sin and I wonder how you would triage it?
@GuitarJesse7
11 ай бұрын
Dear Dr. Ortlund, though I’ve commented strongly against some of your videos in regards to Orthodoxy, saints, etc. I just wanted to affirm the way you addresses this issue with Andy Stanley. I’ve had concerns about him for a long time and they have sadly been confirmed more and more over the past year. This is a challenging topic, emotionally and pastorally, but it is very clear in regards to God’s commandments, church history, how Christians should repent and die to sin, etc. God bless you.
@ben.misantone
11 ай бұрын
Hey Gavin, your heart and sensitivity to such challenging questions has meant everything to me. Your desire for Christian unity has been so refreshing as you seek to draw lines as widely as you can until you cannot any further, when so many Christians are drawing lines so prematurely and are genuinely ripping the body of Christ apart. I grew up Reformed (PCA), and sadly saw a lot uncharitably drawing lines in the sand, instead of deeply pursuing Christian unity until it wasn't possible any further. Because of such agonizing doubt about this issue, I have sunk into a deep depression, where sometimes I feel it easier to just not keep going on any longer. My pain-staking inquiry is this... what do you do if you're just genuinely not sure about this issue? It appears far easier to remain opposed to homosexuality as I have all my life, but I feel a responsibility to genuinely seek what is true about this issue. I have always been opposed by default, and have read a decent amount of people's experiences in favor of my position. It's comfortable. A couple of years ago I lost my best friend to an affirming lifestyle. That was very challenging. In moving towns, I acquired a new best friend, as we've just grown closely together organically, and he is now exploring/following the affirming lifestyle. As you can imagine, this has been heart-wrenching. After a crisis of faith I had a year ago , I saw it a responsiblity this time to genuinely explore this topic. ...and I feel so lost. I don't know what the truth is. Maybe it is because I am not smart enough. ...but I'm juggling back and forth reading a book from an affirming argument, then a non-affirming argument. ...and it's all so gray. The arguments from the original languages and/or context on either side seem equally compelling. There are things I'm not convinced about from the affirming position, such as "what marriage fundamentally is", and the roles of men and women (I'm slightly on the complementarian side). But the challenge still remains, how do I question these thinks without being racked by fear? I'm afraid of being wrong as it seems like eternity is at stake. May God have mercy on me. You or anyone else's response or support is deeply appreciated.
@gohuskers12345
10 ай бұрын
@ben.misantone, Grace and peace in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ! Rather than reading what other people say from various positions, you need to trust the Scriptures themselves. Start with Genesis 1:26-27 and Genesis 2:18-25. God made marriage as one man and one woman for a lifetime. Procreation, logically, was one of the mandates (Genesis 1:28, "Be fruitful and multiply"). That's impossible with same-sex relationships. They are unnatural and sinful, just as pre-marital sex, prostitution, and adultery are sinful sexual behaviors prohibited by Scripture. Re-listen to Gavin's section "The Witness of Scripture" starting at 19:29. It's very clear in the Scriptures. Don't trust your own experiences, don't trust any tradition you were raised in, instead trust Scripture and trust the Lord. Pray earnestly for God to reveal truth and give you strong conviction on this issue. May you be blessed by hearing and knowing God's voice through His Word.
@euanthompson
11 ай бұрын
I have been looking at Dueteronomy 13 recently. It is interesting that the laws does not condemn those who leave, but those who "entice" those away with falsehood. I feel like people should really consider this on this kind of topic. Are we being enticed away by something else, like a desire to be liked by the world.
@detached
11 ай бұрын
Jesus drew circles? Was inclusive? “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's foes will be members of one's own household” (Matthew 10:34-36). The line is unrepentant sin Mr. Stanley. This is the kind of rhetoric we hear from people who don't believe in inerrancy.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
Stanley believe in inerrancy. He also believe in holiness, and loving people into truth.
@carolynbillington9018
9 ай бұрын
so helpful to clearly present biblical truth
@TheRealJimW
11 ай бұрын
Calling it a sermon is WAY too generous. I don't believe he referenced a single Biblical verse... as is his norm.
@letsreasontogether9520
11 ай бұрын
There is one critical job of a pastor..... the call to repentance.
@rosehammer9482
11 ай бұрын
PS your grandparents spoke at an Evangelical church I attended in the 80s. You would have been around 4 then.😊
@drew8422
11 ай бұрын
Excellent, Gavin. Thank you.
@jacobsnodgrass13
11 ай бұрын
Gavin great job. Always faithful
@amandamyers3307
11 ай бұрын
Incredible teaching, thank you.
@climbingtheladder2720
11 ай бұрын
Wonderfully put Gavin, thank you for the video.
@windowsoflife
11 ай бұрын
Thankful for you re these matters
@ubespam5477
11 ай бұрын
In the noise of the different voices in the American church regarding this issue, both orthodox and heterodox, it can be confusing for newer Christians trying to navigate these waters in society today. Is the sin in regards to homosexuality, simply put, the physical sexual act? If that is the case, then, would it still be sinful for two God-loving Christian men or women who happen to be same-sex attracted to be in an exclusive, chaste, wholly non-sexual, celibate relationship/friendship?
@TheRoark
11 ай бұрын
What if a man and a woman, both tempted to cheat on their spouses, were encouraged to enter into an exclusive, chaste, wholly non-sexual, celibate relationship/friendship? In theory, that would be fine, but in practice that is deeply unwise.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
Monogamy is better than promiscuity, which I think is Andy's point.
@TheRoark
11 ай бұрын
@@konroh2 I mean, yes it is better to be sinning with just one partner, but you know what’s better than one homosexual partner?
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
@@TheRoark I agree, we should all be progressing towards holiness.
@robertkauffman8137
11 ай бұрын
Andy has crossed the line. You call Homosexuals to repent and be saved instead of advancing their sin as a normal lifestyle decision.
@laikwanstone8929
10 ай бұрын
Well said.
@johnbrion4565
10 ай бұрын
How do you know he didn’t call them to repent.
@robertkauffman8137
10 ай бұрын
Because part of his position is that his church should be affirming of the gay lifestyle. You cannot advocate for the sin and call people to repentance for that sin. he has fallen away from the true gospel, unfortunately.@@johnbrion4565
@laikwanstone8929
10 ай бұрын
@@johnbrion4565Andy spoke of “drawing circles instead of lines” and of “inclusion.” Does that sound like, “Repent and forsake your sin?” It’s not productive or honest to ask, “How do you know if Andy didn’t tell them to repent?” Please cut to the chase and produce for us the fact that he did indeed tell them to repent. Quote him, please, so that we can know. Show us that he did. If you can’t quote him, we have no reason to believe or know that he told them to repent, especially in light of everything we know he did indeed say, which was oozing with tolerance, inclusivism, and “circles, not lines.” If I’m coming on strong it’s because I think you’re being unfair and unreasonable. Andy said a lot of recorded and documented words. None of them were “repent.” None of them tended in the direction of “repent.” Do we base our judgment of his position if him on what we DON’T know what he said or on what we do? A sound teacher would have immediately said, “Repent,” without leaving us to wonder. Andy hasn’t given us that. If he has and we’re wrong, please produce the evidence. Until then, we’re not going to base our appraisal of him on what he MIGHT’VE said. Blessings to you.
@johnbrion4565
10 ай бұрын
@@laikwanstone8929 is all they have to do to say they repent? What if they say they repent and keep living life together as a married couple. Why does it matter as long as you profess Jesus is your savior then aren’t you saved? Don’t you believe you aren’t saved by works? So why does it matter if they live in sin. Everyone sins. Is what saves us merely saying we repent of our sins? Or merely acknowledging the sin and then we can keep doing the sin?
@JohnMark61355
11 ай бұрын
I agree with Gavin’s assessment of this situation. What I don’t understand then, is why the same people who disagree with homosexual sex are mum about divorce and remarriage prohibited by Jesus. If a person is having sexual relations under these circumstances, that is the definition of being unrepentant. Yet these same people participate and are often in leadership positions in churches. I am not saying if we ignore one sin we should accept the other, but it is puzzling as to why we acquiesce with one sin and rail against another.
@blackwater642
11 ай бұрын
You are so correct. It’s scandalous how many conservative churches affirm second and even third marriages after divorce. They perform them and allow them to take place in the church! Many are active Sunday school leaders also. Jesus was very clear in Matt 5, Mark 10, and Luke 16 on this, and he never walked that back. And despite what some claim 1Cor 7:9 and Mal 2:16 do not walk it back either.
@Outrider74
11 ай бұрын
There is no “dialogue” with sin. There is compassion for sinners in calling them to repentance and forgiveness, but “dialogue” usually becomes “compromise.”
@MrsChristmasCarol
11 ай бұрын
Mr. Ortlund, thank you for a well presented video. I commend Andy for taking on an issue that the church ignores. The families and friends of the LGTQ+ community are in pain. North Point Church has opened it’s door to all who have sinned. Is there a limit on the grace and love of God?
@jordanlight9996
11 ай бұрын
Great message. I’m looking for clarity in the realm of divorce and remarriage. Any resources you can recommend? And what is biblical divorce vs annulment. And how is the New Testament view of divorce and remarriage different from the Old Testament view? Thanks in advance.
@blackwater642
11 ай бұрын
Well I’m not Gavin so I can’t say what he would recommend but Gordon Wenham has a book on this called “Jesus, Divorce, and Remarriage in their historical setting.” It’s on my “to read” book list. I’ve downloaded it but haven’t gotten to it yet. I greatly enjoyed Wenham’s commentary on Leviticus, (NICOT) so I’m going to check out this book as well. Good luck in your search.
@johntheberean951
11 ай бұрын
There seems to be a flaw in the logic around this idea that two people made a decision and now we 'respond' to the decision. This isn't accurate. There is biblical message about what behavior is or is not acceptable. They know this and then they DECIDE to ignore, even defy. Us pointing out that their decision violates biblical teachings in a defiant way is not us 'deciding,' anything. We are observing and reacting, our decision is made for us biblically.
@Goyisism
11 ай бұрын
Thank you for your commentary! I would like to get the book on Anselm. Can you tell me the title of the copy you read from?
@richardjohnson2692
10 ай бұрын
Romans chapter 1. No if's, and or buts.
@thestraightroad305
2 ай бұрын
Through death, life. By truth, freedom.
@trupela
11 ай бұрын
My two cents. The gospel is not moralism. In other words, the gospel is not how one can except Jesus into one’s life. Rather, the gospel is the good news that Jesus has already excepted all of us into his life. That is the starting point for any discussion of morality.
@ianlund97
6 ай бұрын
First time commenter, first off let me say as a deconstructed exvangelical christian, still tryin to be spirtual but more agnostic than fundamentalist (meaning im just allowing myself to be curious in all aspect of my faith) i really appreciate your content. You are one of the few more conservative chrisitians that i enjoy listening too and hearing your perspectives. My main concern that kept going through my mind is hypothetically lets say that youre right, being gay is a sin, well than how is being a practicing homosexual who is still a Christian any different than in the NT when Paul tells the slave owners who are supposedly Christians to be good masters in other words saying its fine to own slaves even as a chrisitian. If slavery is in fact a sin, i hope we can all agree there, is it not a WAY worse sin than being gay? So my question is if according to Paul a christian can still be a chrisitian and own slaves cannot a christian still be a chrsitian and be a practicing homosexual? You could even go so far as to say that if youre gay you still need to keep within the confines of marriage and keep your relationship righteous in the sight of god JUST as Paul told the slave owners not to give up their slaves but to keep their practice righteous in the sight of God. Does this make sense? I feel like im spewing a lot of word vomits, but it's just what's running through my head at the moment after watching your video. Again thanks for the content, i appreciate your perspective and if nothing else as chrisitian i hope we can agree that regardless of our sexualities lgbtq or straight for that matter that we should strive to follow Christ. Peace out
@gojohnnygo3209
11 ай бұрын
Apostle Paul got Timothy circumcised, even though he teaches no to circumcision.
@galantkoh3917
11 ай бұрын
Is there any parallel between the issue of current same-sex marriage and ancient polygamous marriage and the pastoral challenge? Both illicit but present potential familial abandonment questions?
@timothynelissen948
10 ай бұрын
The analogy of homosexuality and pornography is fundamentally flawed. Pornography can be set aside easily if you have a healthy relationship with your spouse and you are attracted to, and are fulfilled by them. Homosexuality is about attraction. You don't choose who youre attracted to, and it may be impossible for a homosexual to have a fulfilled relationship with a member of the opposite sex. That is no fault of the individual. This issue is far more nuanced than this argument can be.
@godsgospelgirl
11 ай бұрын
All good points
@PeaceFan1
11 ай бұрын
When Stanley said "We draw Circles not Lines" is a Smoke Screen for Excusing Sin!! JESUS Never excused Sin!! He Lovingly told the woman caught in Adultery " Go and SIN NO MORE " ..So, HE LOVED Her, Affirmed her as a Child of GOD and then told her THE TRUTH..." Sin No MORE" .. WHY? Because HIS WAY, is the BEST WAY, The Way HE Designed it, which is GOOD and PERFECT!!! Chastity IS POSSIBLE because I AM DOING IT NOW by JESUS' POWER!! ALL Things are POSSIBLE IN CHRIST!! I walk EVERYDAY in the PROMISE of Ephesians 3: 20-21 " Now to HIM who is ABLE to do IMMEASURABLY MORE than ALL we Ask or IMAGINE, According to HIS POWER that is at Work WITHIN us" ...THAT is THE TRUTH!!!
@tstjohn777
11 ай бұрын
Their decision is not the churches problem. The Christain life is a life of the cross. Jesus said, if YOU'RE not willing to take up your CROSS and follow Me, you CANNOT be My disciple. 2 Cor. 6 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
The extent to which we are a disciple doesn't negate initial belief in Christ for salvation. We are all sinners in process. A believer can be a bad disciple.
@rgmrtn
Ай бұрын
I have found that neither traditional nor affirming Christian churches are safe environments for gay people. I grieve over this.
@kerry8506
11 ай бұрын
It has to be an agree to disagree issue because there is no one authoritative to settle the question. No one to submit to. No mechanism. Some people read the Bible and interpret it to say that homosexuality is permissible and some interpret the opposite. What can you do about it other than agree to disagree?
@endlessnameless7004
11 ай бұрын
Exactly. There is ambiguity in the relevant Hebrew and Greek texts of the Mosaic Law, and we're not even under the Law to begin with. Without apostles to settle the matter, judgement must be suspended on this issue and left in God's hands alone. Neither Gavin nor his tradition are qualified to settle this matter.
@toonnaobi-okoye2949
11 ай бұрын
Without the apostles, we can’t know truth? Whatever happened to the Holy Spirit of truth living in us , can we not know truth from him? The matter may not be settled but lines must and have been drawn, whether circular or straight. At the end of the day, Yah knows the truth and 2 Timothy 2:19 will prevail.
@kerry8506
11 ай бұрын
@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 How can the Holy Spirit of truth living within us settle doctrinal disagreements? Does the Bible specify that it can? Who will be deciding which Christian is being led by the Holy Spirit and which is not when they disagree? Did the Bible leave us with any solid mechanism for judging who is correct and who is not?
@toonnaobi-okoye2949
11 ай бұрын
@@kerry8506 When Paul addressed Peter's error, why did Peter repent?
@kerry8506
11 ай бұрын
@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 Are you referring to the time when Peter wouldn’t eat with gentiles in Galatians 3? From my reading, I don’t see that we are actually told that Peter repented. I’m eager to hear your answer to that though, but I’m also wondering if you’re heading toward an answer to any of my questions.
@whatdoyoubelieve194
11 ай бұрын
Maybe discuss next the Pope’s soft stance on same sex marriage and how many Protestant and Catholic leaders are missing the biblical boat 🛥️
@ninomaltese1661
11 ай бұрын
Dr. Michael Brown had a long correspondence with Andy Stanley that homosexual marriage is sinful and that he should not condone it. His response was ministry before doctrine.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
It's like this, do we draw someone in with love before engaging them with truth?
@markp1845
11 ай бұрын
Matthew 19:5 And said, 'For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'? - Genesis 2:24 For this reason shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife-and they shall become one flesh.
@danielhixon8209
11 ай бұрын
Great video. I appreciate your thoughtful response on this. Too bad that Pope Francis doesn't watch your channel 😳
@danielhixon8209
11 ай бұрын
I agree; Catholic Church teaching is very clear and biblical on this. Pope Francis himself, however, seems to be causing some confusion with his recent comments.
@taylorbarrett384
11 ай бұрын
The strongest arguments against being very firm and explicit in the traditional position affirms that sex was designed for marriage, and marriage designed for man and woman, and that gay unions and sex within them are not examples of marriage, but rather, results from genetic variations which, especially under theistic evolution, change the essence and telos of the organism, and thus natural law differs with them (due to different telos), and that, at the very least, the fact that there does exist Christians indwelt by The Holy Spirit in gay marriages, proves that justification is not contingent upon it, just like Gentile reception of the Spirit apart from circumcision proved that, and that, the Scriptural and traditional view was not developed with this sort of natural gay monogamy as a target, but was addressed towards perversions This isn't to say that I believe we should affirm gay marriages, but I don't think the sort of very strong, explicit, rejections of it, really do justice to the issue, failing to truly wrestle with all the facts, with the reality of genetics, the existence of gay Christians in gay marriages who love Christ, etc... I wouldnt necessarily take Stanley's approach, but neither would I spend any time in the pulpit telling people that gay Christians who get married are necessarily committing mortal sin or something like that..
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
I agree with your pragmatism while disagreeing with theistic evolution. But the point about natural law is good.
@ryanhiatt23
11 ай бұрын
Very well done video. Thank you.
@thomassandoval8025
11 ай бұрын
Great vid thank you!
@debbiedmeades3805
11 ай бұрын
Same sex 'marriage' is not marriage at all - as you correctly said right at the start, marriage is between a man and a woman and only that.
@chrisp1561
11 ай бұрын
People draw conclusions from sound bites they are sent or find and then whenever that communicator tries to give clarity, that don’t satisfy the listener. Why? Because the listener will find what they are looking for negatively or positively. Biased is a tough thing to overcome as well as slander, bitterness, jealousy, etc… Who is the next pastor that needs to be examined on every word of every sermon? We need to be fair and do that to all pastors preaching right? That would take so much time and surely that’s how God wants us to spend our time/energy, right? Criticized by people who do not attempt to create ministries to help parents and do not say everything someone wants them to say in a 50 minute message but hey let’s pick it a part to get more followers, likes, etc… No wonder people who believe something different or maybe want to have discussions don’t feel safe to attend church. They are watching Christians tear their own apart. What if we put this energy into reaching the community. Not abandoning conservative theology but doing all we can to draw lines AND circles relationally.
@jamesbarksdale978
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for this clear response. Andy Stanley is wrong. I understand his desire to be supportive of people in their journey of faith, but to baptize sin is not the way to do it. Christ calls us to repentance, and the work of the Spirit is transformation. After listing some wrongdoers who will not inherit the kingdom of God, men who practice sex with other men being one such group, Paul reminds his readers, "But this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
@TheNinjaInConverse
10 ай бұрын
Nice take.
@seanhaber7847
11 ай бұрын
I worked in a parachurch ministry in which we ministered to the homeless. There was a policy that "we should meet people where they're at." This was fine and great at first, but I needed to remind the management that Jesus said for us to "sin no more" John 5:14, 8:11. This meant that after a while of ministering to someone (many made a "profession" of faith) we should expect for them not to be in the sins that brought them to our ministry. Therefore, we should not have people feel enabled by their sin.
@chadhOneAtl
11 ай бұрын
I think the biggest thing to come out of this is the overwhelming sense of that Christianity is NOT dead and the view that I didn't expect to see was the way almost all Christians or religious people have stood up and said "no! This is not right. Homosexuality according to the biblical and theological Christian reference is a sin and to teach it as normal as this conference did, is wrong." I have yet to see many videos actually supporting this position or Andy's views on it. Although I am sure there are some out there. I have never felt so relieved and strong in my Faith. What I expected to see was pastors, like some of my family, come together and say "Well, lets look at this from all sides, well its really not what he said.." But I have largely heard Andy's views and the fact that he held this conference rejected in favor of the traditional explanation. Another video on here said it best. To say that we must love care and show compassion for those of the LGBTQ lifestyle but also present it and treat it as normal and that its not a sin, is dangerous. What will happen with that message is that many children will come out to their christian parents, who have seen this message, and then tell them to go to church without addressing their sin. Beware of these messages for the unfaithful will never achieve the kingdom of heaven. So while these people may lead a Godly life, they will fail ultimately. It is no different than telling any sinner that it's ok to continue to sin so long as you go to Church. That is incorrect.
@FernandoDornelles4321
11 ай бұрын
how hard is it to just go with leviticus? i find it AMAZING that this pastors go for years studying to come up with that non-sense ,
@litigioussociety4249
11 ай бұрын
The problem in the 90s was telling boys that look at pornography or teenagers thay had sex before marriahe that they were in risk of hell, and that those things lead to rape, prostitution, etc. Pornography is not a good or amoral thing, but men lust, so the church should be teaching grace and forgiveness about it, and teaching that couples need to be satisfying their spouse's sexual urges not withholding sex over petty things. The culture today teaches everything wrong.
@debbiearnold6230
11 ай бұрын
I feel this is what Dr. Rev. Charles Stanley frowned upon with his beloved Andy.
@grit1679
11 ай бұрын
The danger of homosexuality in the church is this: Rather than repenting of sin, they are choosing to redefine the word "sin", so that their particular sin is no longer considered sin.
@ryanamadeo8986
11 ай бұрын
How do you address remarriage, in the face of biblically acceptable divorce, in light of Jesus words in Matthew 5? Does this not also fit into the requirement for life long celibacy? Just curious. It seems as though the remarriage causing adultery fits with the biblical arc of a man and woman uniting in marriage.
@camillewilliams3185
11 ай бұрын
Loving people doesn't mean "affirming" or pretending sin is okay. Jesus never did that. As a matter of fact, the whole purpose of his earthly ministry was showing us why we need salvation and repentence. Love is telling people the truth in Godly ways. So I do think more churches need to have real conversations and spaces where people can share their struggles with sins especially lustful ones. Because of where culture is going people are so fearful of offending others but the gospel is offensive to this fallen world. The early Christians and throughout time even died for their faith. The costs are high but the reward is worth it.
@veritasmuy2407
11 ай бұрын
Girrrrrrl.... that was one great comment !!!
@beckybishop2801
10 ай бұрын
Makes me wonder about his sexuality!
@happyappy19931
11 ай бұрын
Truth is truth. However, not everyone believes in objective truth these days…
@glendagaskin151
11 ай бұрын
One line Jesus drew was the woman Jesus told the Pharisees to cast the first stone. They moved away but Jesus told her to sin no more.
@paveli1181
11 ай бұрын
Improper understanding of shame helps with acceptance of shameful acts. Every popular preacher in the west seems to rail against shame, still today. Yet when these shameful acts surface, there is confusion and disarray. Sin has a progression and order in its development and we are just on another step along the way to judgement and destruction. Liberalism as progressivism is built on a rejection of history. This creates number of issues, but 2 in particular. 1. Shame is rejected because its past history and should be discarded. 2. It prevents us from making connections between progressions of sin, so people are confused and don't understand why things happen. Where are the shepherds?
@MTJCC
11 ай бұрын
Answer: Eating the sheep!
@anthonynoronha8442
11 ай бұрын
Good and well timed content, satan seems to be working all over in all denominations and traditions. Right now the catholic church is having almost a month long synod in the Vatican. 2 things are on the table at the synod, 1. Blessing same sex marriage and 2. women leadership in Church. Clarity and ambiguity seems to have surfaced right in the begining of creation where satan and Eve are having a dialoque. Looking forward to more great content, Dear D.r Ortlund
@Jackie.2025
11 ай бұрын
Great video!
@martha9292
10 ай бұрын
The point he is missing-Jesus’ circles included those with a REPENTANT heart! Like the woman caught in adultery. He freed her of that sin and go and sin no more. The circle he drew on the ground that day was finally reduced to only 2 in the crowd, Jesus and the sinner who was seeking repentance, salvation and life. And the others left! Because they were not part of Jesus’ circle.
@coachgregory6202
11 ай бұрын
Lev 18:22 & Roman's chapter 1
@jamestrotter3162
11 ай бұрын
" And such WERE some of you, but you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God."-1st Cor. 6:11. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, behold, all things are new."-2nd Cor. 5:17.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
Does this mean all Christians automatically have victory over sin, or does it mean victory is possible?
@jamestrotter3162
11 ай бұрын
@@konroh2Both.
@konroh2
11 ай бұрын
@@jamestrotter3162 I don't know about you, but victory is not automatic in my life all the time, but it is possible and it is natural if I discipline myself. But it's by no means automatic nor easy nor always progressing. And I bet if I spent one day with you I could point out some flaws in your life.
@j.sethfrazer
11 ай бұрын
Come as you are, but do not expect God to leave you as you are.
@rolandovelasquez135
11 ай бұрын
Just by the way Andy. A circle is a line. Think about it.
@RobSed55
11 ай бұрын
In the last few months I have wondered if we really understand the depth of what we need to repent of. Isaiah 53:6 King James Version _6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all._ It appears very clear, "The iniquity of us all" is going our own way. Regarding Andy Stanley and drawing big circles when it comes to same sex marriage or even same sex attraction and indulgence, Oh my! How much is that simply, "every one turning to our own way?"
@Warhol-jb9zx
11 ай бұрын
According to Ephesians, marriage is fundamentally about commitment-keeping our covenant with our spouse as a reflection of God’s own covenant with us through Jesus. The Bible doesn’t teach that marriage requires procreation or gender hierarchy. Instead, it teaches that the essence of marriage is covenantal love and faithfulness, and Christian same-sex couples live out that vision of marriage every day.
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