It may not have been THE problem but it was A problem.
@grasshopper7760
Ай бұрын
I'm looking on the bright side I get to see inside that motor one more time 😃
@rawbsworld6604
Ай бұрын
Easy to say when your not the one doing the work ☝️ 😝 not that I disagree 🤷♂️ jus’ saying ✌️
@dougkubash8673
Ай бұрын
I was hoping it was the rocker arm bushing. Maybe take a look through the spark plug hole with a camera would show something
@ron827
Ай бұрын
I am confident you can rebush that rocker arm but higher priorities are calling. The clacking noise is not there immediately so it may have something to do with heat. As the head heats up, the seat pocket may be enlarging and releasing the seat. Just a keyboard theory.
@jbj27406
Ай бұрын
It does seem to come and go as temperature changes. Could it be that the temperature change also occludes an oil passage or something?
@ronsue1000
Ай бұрын
I agree it looks like you can reboot that. Time to experiment and find out
@lordcaptainvonthrust3rd
Ай бұрын
Good luck with the continuing investigation, Squatch 🤞 If anyone can find/cure the problem, it's you 👍
@djman101
Ай бұрын
Looks like you need a bore scope have a look inside the #3 cylinder before you pull it. Probably going to have to pull it regardless but be nice to know.
@mathuetax
Ай бұрын
Wow, it has that heavy tick even as it spins down after the ignition is turned off.
@Failure_Is_An_Option
Ай бұрын
You pay for this? Really?
@vth5
Ай бұрын
@@Failure_Is_An_Option And _MANY_ others by the look of it. You can ask one of those other people as well since the dude (Mathue) you're commenting to in my observation doesn't respond to comments in your vein.
@wackowacko8931
Ай бұрын
This is a test that we used to use when diagnosing a rod knock, but it can often be used in other situations. Pull the spark plug on each cylinder one at a time (then replace it) with the engine running. If the knock goes away, you've found the problem cylinder. It works more often that you would think. If the rocker arm has a bushing, you can replace it. The manual tells you not to, because they assume that farmers will beat it out and hammer in a new one, which will mangle the rocker arm. If you chuck it up in the lathe and use your inside boring bar, you can cut the bushing out until it is foil thin. Then you can get the rest out with a pick or a screwdriver. Find the right bushing, heat up the rocker arm and put the bushing in the freezer, then install in the rocker arm No pressing it into the rocker arm, if doesn't go in with heat/cold, find or make another bushing that will fit.
@nathancarlisle2801
Ай бұрын
Squatch, thanks for showing the differences between early and later style rocker arms. The early certainly look more robust and rebuildable. Id be worried about deformation on the the later two piece style when pressing the bushings in/out. Shame it sounds like you are still going to have to pull the head.
@JohnWaz-u1f
Ай бұрын
Before you remove the cylinder head, try measuring the pressure for each cylinder. This may not show the source of the problem (valve …, rings, pistons, rods, lubrication,…), but it may show performance difference between cylinders. There was at least one commenter who had a sparkplug problem. I was great seeing the use of your Engine Stethoscope Set.
@WeeShoeyDugless
Ай бұрын
Never owned a stethoscope, still use a screwdriver to my ear, never let me down👍🏻🏴🇬🇧
@kevinf92
Ай бұрын
On the bright side, you have the only H with a built-in metronome. :D
@jeffreyplum5259
Ай бұрын
Squatch, You named the project "Preparation H" and did not think at lease one pain in the Ass would show up? Murphy will have his way. Good luck and God bless you all!!
@claas90017
Ай бұрын
It sure seems something internal, temp related I’d almost try taking off the fan belt just to make sure something in the drive system isn’t resonating through the block
@vonRow
Ай бұрын
You can re-bush that arm. I've done it. You just have to make some sort of "cradle" to support the part so that it does not bend or separate when you drive the old one out / new one in. Beware tho, as the two halves might have taken a "tweak" when they were welded originally - and they may spring one way or another, despite your efforts to keep them from bending or moving. An old timer showed me how he actually bronze brazed the seams before pressing the bushings out/in.
@jacksonsmith4165
Ай бұрын
I’m not gonna claim to know everything. But I would have thought if the seat was moving deeper into the head, you would’ve seen a decrease in valve lash
@vanislescotty
Ай бұрын
Well, that's too bad. I was hoping with you that might cure it. Looking forward to the next episode already.
@Pamudder
Ай бұрын
With all the work you have devoted to this project, I am so sorry to hear that you have to take the engine apart.😢
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
That just comes with the territory when using mostly all used parts that are 70 years old - lots of “X” factors at play 👍
@lukestrasser
Ай бұрын
Morning Squatch. Greetings from Japan!
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Good evening Luke, greetings from US!
@owen33333
Ай бұрын
Hey Luke!
@rpujol
Ай бұрын
Use a borescope camera through the spark plug holes and check the condition of the valve heads and seats and you will see if anything has moved. Also check height of all the valve stems with a ruler and see if all are same height, if a seat has moved down you will find a lower valve stem. This knock sound maybe can be also a valve head rubbing on the side of the cylinder bore when it opens, if the valve is too close to it. Sometimes cylinder heads machining are not exact equal and changing the head could have caused the problem. With a borescope you will be able to see it also. Before pulling back the head out you have to check all easier options.
@Thomasgarrick113
Ай бұрын
You pushed down on the valve in question by hand and it seemed very easy I know they don't run a lot of spring preasure but that looked a little weak might want to check further
@powderriver2424
Ай бұрын
It's just enough to make you nuts, I did like the valve grinding machine. I almost had one, an old gentleman was giving it to me and my buddy said what are you going to do with that it will just sit in your garage, so I past it up, even though once in a blue moon it would be handy, it was free! I kick myself for listening to my friend.
@robertamerrick2000
Ай бұрын
I can TOTALLY relate to that you’re dealing with. The clutch on my truck, I’m having ALL KINDS OF ISSUES!!!!
@robertmailhos8159
Ай бұрын
Egg shaped rocker arm 😮😮 Glad you found it Hope it will be nice And quiet
@coltonbryan3726
Ай бұрын
I’m watching this at work on my break, I had my fingers crossed for you so hard and when the noise was still there my heart sank for you! But you’ll get it whipped easy your diag skills are unmatched great work squatch!
@danw1955
Ай бұрын
Gotta be the valve seat at this point. The fact that it gets worse as it warms up kinda of solidifies that theory since the casting is expanding a bit and letting the valve seat rattle in the hole. The rocker may have added to the noise a bit, but not like it did after it ran for a little while. At least the head is nice and accessible, so no big deal with pulling it. Better to catch it now than have it drop a valve and destroy the engine.😱
@rickvan102
Ай бұрын
As a test, how about removing that rocker arm and test running the engine to see if it still ticks. That would tell you whether it is a valve problem or not.
@edspencer7121
Ай бұрын
Pull the spark plug wires, one at a time, while it's running. If the noise settles down on the dead cylinder, I would suspect a wrist pin problem. Bushing, pin, or piston. I've rebuilt several engines in my lifetime and had these quirks happen. Frustrating, yes. Just another challenge each of us go through in these journeys. BTW, your pole shed looks wonderful. I would like to have watched a similar video 15 years ago. I've done a lot of projects in mine. Keep up the good work, Squatch!
@michaelshingleton1628
Ай бұрын
Never saw a even worn out rocker arm tick. But it definitely was worth a try. It still could be a loose valve seat. I am not confident in my idea that it is a slipped valve guide if it is not a valve seat. But what else could it be? Valve head hitting the piston would get worse by pressing against valve. And you would feel it when you turn the engine over. What a mystery. Oh I would use the cast rocker arms. But that is just me. You can shim the loose one but also you could braze the cast one to build up the end and machine it to fit. But that is a lot of work as you would have to press out the bushing then braze and machine followed by bushing pressed back in / replace. Another super long shot is the valve retainer half moons. Maybe the valve shaft is sliding in the valve retainers? Thanks again for the mystery. Question: what if everything checks out and you cannot find the problem? Will you just run it that way till it breaks or goes away? Try another head???
@tristandavis7802
Ай бұрын
You should pull a plug out and see if you can see anything with a bore scope camera if it is a valve seat
@jean-robertbourbonnais6279
Ай бұрын
Keep your chin up Toby .. ALL GOOD !!! 😎😎 thats what makes following your channel so interesting 👍👍👍 CHEERS my GOODMAN !!!!!!!!
@edkeniston4786
Ай бұрын
Of course you can bush the rocker arm. The best mechanics in history approached problems with the attitude of why can’t I! I once told a very reputable wizard that “they say you can’t do that”, his response was “who are they? It’s my shop, I’ll do what I want” I became a much better technician once I adopted his philosophy. Keep up the good work!
@peanutbutter2597
Ай бұрын
sounds like that one rocker arm ran low or dry on lube oil for a time ! you are correct always check and recheck your work
@catfishgold
Ай бұрын
Well you had to give it a shot. Hope to see a video on trying to re bush that rocker though. Good luck 👍
@maidenrulz73
Ай бұрын
“Its the Johnson rod” -George Costanza
@geneguenther4325
Ай бұрын
Thanks for the video Toby. Sad to hear it wasn’t an easy fix. Hoping it’s nothing to major. Can’t wait for the next video
@RuralTowner
Ай бұрын
Possible reason for the bushing in the welded rocker not being serviceable could be that in removing it the 2 halves do or risk losing their centering due to deformation when pressing out the bushing. It sounds as if they're hollow. One side can in part could be pushed in while the other can get pushed out, especially at the lip. The forged being a solid (thus heavier) pc would have no give.
@jbj27406
Ай бұрын
Maybe make the bushing exactly like you want it, and then use it to push the other one out and maintain alignment and support the whole way while pushing the new one in.
@bcbloc02
Ай бұрын
My guess is the stamping bores are not full depth so pushing a bushing in our out will distort the stamping as there is no way to hold the center area so it is supported on the inside. Probably would have to cut the old bushing out then use a heat shrink fit to install the new one. I imagine that how they did it at the factory.
@lawrencecarlson2425
Ай бұрын
Many times, downward pressure with your hand on the rocker can identify the culprit. It's the first thing I do.
@danielgriffith7694
Ай бұрын
Like you I would try to replace the bushing in the rocker, but with a much better forged rockers , why not refurbish them and go with a much better replacement 👍
@DAKOTANSHELBY
Ай бұрын
What a find though. #3 rocker being worn by .013, yet #3 still making noise after rocker replacement. Has to be the seat. Eager to see your findings after head is removed. But wait! How about using a scope through the spark plug hole? Possibly you might see a loose seat? Thanks!
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
The spark plug holes on these are located a considerable distance away from the valves, with them being so far up in the combustion chamber dome/recession - but taking the manifold off and looking down the exhaust port would get you right there 👍
@richardphelan8414
Ай бұрын
This gets better all the time Toby pull the plug and scope the head inside the cylinder look at the top of the piston and the valve seats while your looking rotate the engine, before you go looking ,run the engine until the noise appears and is loud then pull the plug look inside the cylinder with the bore scope check all of the above I mentioned
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Don’t have a bore scope.
@thirzapeevey2395
Ай бұрын
I actually really appreciate these videos where something goes wrong. I always learn a lot from watching them. I know it isn't fun for you, and it would be great if everything was good from the start, but there isn't as much educational value in it.
@RobertBrothersJr-dc7nr
Ай бұрын
There is no doubt in my mind that you can rebus that rocker arm. Your skills are second to none. I feel bad about you having to go deeper into the engine to find the problem. You will get there. Very enjoyable video Toby. Thanks
@AB-nu5we
Ай бұрын
I say 're-bush' the welded rocker arm. Nice troubleshooting video. Some days the answer is 'no'. Keep up the good work.
@f75gunslinger
Ай бұрын
I think that it's definitely a valve seat . It's just tight enough that it gets pulled back up in by the spring far enough that it isn't ticking when you first start it . But as soon as it heats up it starts to knock again .
@FeralPreacher
Ай бұрын
My first thought was a collapsing lifter, ie hydraulic lifter, but then I heard there are solid cam follower lifters. May be a sticking lifter or valve not moving smoothly? I know you will find the cause and am looking forward to learning what was the problem. Thanks for sharing.
@JohnWITTMANN
Ай бұрын
Shout out to your patience and perseverance as well as methodical approach.
@MC-re2ry
Ай бұрын
Well. Thought you had it. Not a total loss. It needed to be repaired. This would keep me awake at night.
@greywerld2195
Ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure I could hear Christine cackling in the background. You can almost hear her telling the H, "You have learned well, young Padawan."
@seniorelectrician6831
Ай бұрын
I do think it would be prudent to do compression and leak down testing as well as borescoping that cylinder before you pull it apart. This can be turned into a valuable teaching moment for Squatch and the results you will expect and what it is all about so the average person will do some testing first instead of just ripping it down. I know you have done similar things in prior videos, but refreshers is always good
@Hitman-ds1ei
Ай бұрын
Ive heard that before and it was excessive valve guide clearance on exhaust valve in that particular case, I found it by pushing sideways on valves while running
@clydeschwartz
Ай бұрын
Excellent video did you check the spark plug on the rattling cylinder i have seen the electrode break and even the grounding tang on the end of the spark plug come off . Check the compression a loose valve seat should have lower compression pressure
@jamespollock2500
Ай бұрын
I did you check the width of the stands? Maybe one side is wider than the other.
@Greg_Gatsby
Ай бұрын
Accept that challenge. You can install a bushing in the #3 rocker arm. If not, it can’t be done. 👍
@elwjlw
Ай бұрын
It would be really cool to see NVH on an old school tractor. On the other hand i see why that wouldn't be received well.
@angrybobking5083
Ай бұрын
I'm sure those rockers are common enough you could find a NOS set for pretty cheap
@larrymilliken288
Ай бұрын
Methodical troubleshooting is the only way to fix something. It's too bad you have to disturb the cylinder head but time and patience pays back double in the end. I believe you will be able to bush that worn rocker arm too!
@maxpuppy96
Ай бұрын
Just a little thing I experienced in the same mode the bolts that hold down the rocker assemblies get distorted threads and lose their effected ability to to stay tight, that was on a big diesel Mack engine, and Mack does recommend you replace those bolts when re assembling them.
@rickyjessome4359
Ай бұрын
Thanks for the video Toby. I wouldn't blame yourself too much for not thoroughly checking for wear on the rocker arms. Like you said there was no prior noise to make you suspicious. Hopefully it's nothing major and didn't cause any damage to the head. Looking forward to the next video as always. Cheers
@jeffmc7946
Ай бұрын
I was hoping it was an easy fix with the rocker arms.
@mattthescrapwhisperer
Ай бұрын
Great video Squatch. You have given me food for though as I dive into my H.
@LoggerLloyd
Ай бұрын
Just a thought overnight. Any chance the valve has a sticky point? With the wear on the rocker bushing could that be caused by extra effort needed to move the valve? Just some thoughts and I am sure you will show the details of what you find. As always I appreciate watching you work on these old machines.
@LLAHTI1
Ай бұрын
Wow that’s crazy! Never expected that- I know you can rebush that rocker, I have faith in you! Good- luck.
@371508129
Ай бұрын
Good to see you using the stethoscope. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve screamed at the screen to get one out when another uTube is chasing a knock.
@WeeShoeyDugless
Ай бұрын
Screwdriver to your ear is way cheaper and just as effective😊
@rogerpavlis8184
Ай бұрын
That is always my fear when I do a complete rebuild that something deep inside is not right and I have to take it all apart again. I hate rework when I spend so much time (like you have done) making sure everything is just right and then something comes up and bites you. Good luck on finding the issue.
@PaulG.x
Ай бұрын
The bush in the welded rocker may have an internal OD rib or bi-conical shape to hold it central when the two halves are pressed onto it,which will prevent it being pressed out. Or , the they are just concerned an inept mechanic will bend the rocker pressing the bush out due to supporting the rocker poorly in the press. The lateral strength of the welded unit will be less than the forged one.
@BrianSmith-lo3mj
Ай бұрын
I wish that would have been the problem Squatch, but I'll give you an A+ for effort.
@emerycreek8016
Ай бұрын
Maybe it's just me and my tools but when I have taken a rocker shaft like that apart I can never get those circular clips back on. I remember once when it was late and cold and one went flying... (lost for months) If you re-bush or replace that rocker maybe you can show a trick or two with the clips. Too bad about that tick. Maybe you can get some good content from it in the end. You and Senior troubleshot that down in a matter of minutes!
@notajp
Ай бұрын
You’re not the only one that would love to see how a pro does it!
@WeeShoeyDugless
Ай бұрын
I use a tiny flat screwdriver. Enter 1 end of the ring clip into the groove and gently pry the clip with the screwdriver against the end of the rocker shaft just enough to get the clip on the shaft. Push it on the rest with a heavier screwdriver. If you pry it too severely, it will open the clip up, easily fixed though.
@peterfallert4994
Ай бұрын
I was convinced it was the rocker too. Pulling the head is at least somewhat simple. Better than chain driven dual over head cams with variable timing.
@jankotze1959
Ай бұрын
Good Luck Tobie, you are a professional and will pin point the problem
@danielcadnum7214
Ай бұрын
Thanks Squatch, my grandfather had an H and a Super C. He used to say he loved plowing with his Super C and my Uncle Charlie ran the H. That H is gorgeous. Nice job 👍 with it. Can you see a scribed small line in the top of that valve by the retainer. Then watch it. If it doesn’t turn and/or doesn’t turn consistently then the guide is too tight. Good luck. 👍 Awesome machine 😊
@Mr572u
Ай бұрын
I think you could use a bore scope through the spark plug hole to check the valve seat, before you pull the head.
@mikelargent6297
Ай бұрын
I hate the bad luck for you! But the way I look at it is it’s going to be more content for everyone else to enjoy! I love old tractors especially ones with family history being restored and kept alive!
@cobywalbrgclub
22 күн бұрын
Pull one plug at time to fine what cylinder is causing
@bobferranti5222
Ай бұрын
Squatch, I've seen weak lifters cause a tap like this and as a retired master tech like you, you know it's a possibility even with brand new lifters.
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
These lifters are solid, not hydraulic 👍
@rbtgmnstcs
Ай бұрын
Slips on the valve and slides along the shaft and with higher rpm and oil pressure it goes away as the oil cushion is stiffer.
@rolandmohler2695
Ай бұрын
I work for a place that sells old Chevy truck parts. For the 216 and 235 six cylinder there are 4 sets of 3 rocker arms. 3 right intake, 3 left intake, 3 right exhaust, and 3 left exhaust. It's the only way to get the angles right as you work around the pillar posts.
@donaldfeiner9708
Ай бұрын
The rockers in this engine, are they a singular part? Or are they a common number across several units? Other engines? The question I guess, is if you could find a good set of the stamped ones by waiting to keep the unit more OE ? Or is that even a concern for you? Gorgeous work sir, can’t wait to see it in the sun and your smile when you drive it. You seem to realy enjoy these old tractors. Good on ya! my Australian friend says….
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Thanks! Yes, these rockers are quite common because they were used on the H as well as W-4 series tractors of the era. They built tons of them, so it's not very difficult to find spares :-)
@waltermattson5566
Ай бұрын
On the bright side we will get another video to watch!
@chrisbeck8182
Ай бұрын
The stamped arm bushings might have a flange at the middle of the OD that is captured by the halves prior to welding so the bushings wouldn’t migrate.
@keithwarkentin
Ай бұрын
Well that kinda sucks but it gives your viewers some drama but I was really hoping that you nailed it with replacing the old rocker ! Now what do you think caused that one rocker to be so worn and the others to be within tolerances and what do you think would’ve happened if you left it as was? But this is a EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of why I love your channel and I know I speak for most of your viewers just when I thought I new it all You show us differences in 2 piece welded rockers and cast 1 piece rockers and that the rockers are in sequence that might not be the best description but I know you know what I mean 😀 But I can hardly wait for the mystery to be solved and hopefully it isn’t too costly 😀🇨🇦
@Dudleymiddleton
Ай бұрын
Now this is Rocker science!
@bombardier3qtrlbpsi
Ай бұрын
Great job 👍 thanks for great video content
@AndrewHCann
Ай бұрын
Excellent video Toby :) also not fun also like learning new things too and hopefully next video solved it maybe! Only thing come to me thinking why shave pinch in more foul that Number 3 valve have on near cylinder motor do problem and may cure it ! Shave part talking is cone on head and give try on and hope that helps out!
@crazydave4455
Ай бұрын
Dang, so close. I was rooting for ya. I put together a MM R with the jug style blocks you are familiar with and one was bad and leaking coolant. I needed the winter off before I went back to tear it apart again…. Frustrating!
@colin8532
Ай бұрын
DANG, that is frustrating. I know you'll get it figured out though.
@johnnymorrow63
Ай бұрын
Well on the bright side you may have saved yourself a small head ache on down the down finding that running clearance on the rocker.
@notajp
Ай бұрын
I’d love to send my B rockers to you for refurbishment. No one around here can do them, and they really need it…😢
@TugboatMatt
Ай бұрын
Have you tried looking into the cylinder with a bore scope? Head likely has to come off no matter what but atleast you might be able to see what’s going on and be prepared looking for parts or giving a machine shop heads up.
@WeeShoeyDugless
Ай бұрын
Could you pop the pushrods & cam followers out of #3 and start it up on 3 cylinders to confirm it is the valve seat?
@k.kristianjonsson1537
Ай бұрын
The bright side of this problem, it make it more interesting for us viewers. What's next!!
@bevanwilson5642
Ай бұрын
I hate to say it but it could be a non rotating lifter and it has a worn spot on it that ocasinally gets over the cam lobe and changes the clearances
@AntiqueCarsandStuff
Ай бұрын
Great video. I know how frustrating that can be.
@Thomasgarrick113
Ай бұрын
Looks like you have had some nice weather for a few days good for slab curing hope the deer stayed off of it
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Yep no deer, but the pigeons are starting to move in now with no doors yet to keep them out lol
@williamschmiedel6890
Ай бұрын
Amazon prime days for the win on borescopes, some with controlable heads for relatively cheap
@willardway3037
Ай бұрын
What I would do is replace all of the bushing in the early H rockers just to make sure they are at the minimum clearance. If I had to make them I would. A custom bushing for the H. I think the reason for the welded rockers. They are afraid of bending the rocker. I think if some one would make a proper jig to hold the rocker in place and press right on the old bushing and the outer race in place. Using a very tight tolerance one could drop them together with heat and cooling. Cool the bushing and het the rocker using a interference fit. After it cools down then drill the oil holes, just a tick- hair larger to insure a good oil flow. BUT not to large to lower the oil pressure. As for the side to side shift. To fix that issue. one of 2 way 1 when you're making the bushings leave the long and trim the when you install them. 2 is to use a shim to get the proper alignment. This would drive my OCD and my left eyeball nuts. GOOD LUCK!!
@markjones5562
Ай бұрын
Just wondering if it is lifter noise or valve seat. That tick would drive me loopy. Good luck hunting. I’m sure we will all find out soon what it is. Thank you for sharing with us.
@whittakerfarm1856
Ай бұрын
I rebushed my super M rockers. I used McMaster carr bronze bushings and sized them to press into the rockers, left the ID a tick small and used a lapping tool with abrasive paste in a pistol drill to size them to the shaft after pressing them in. The originals are a pain to get out, FYI. Also, why not look in that cylinder with a boroscope before pulling the head.
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Don’t have a boroscope.
@whittakerfarm1856
Ай бұрын
@@squatch253 sent some pics to Kenny kizzle of the rebush job. Told him he can send them to you.
@squatch253
Ай бұрын
Got the pictures, thanks! 👍
@whittakerfarm1856
Ай бұрын
@@squatch253 cool! You’re more than capable, get after it lol. I think I had to size ID, OD and length on the lathe. I don’t remember how I made sure they were centered when I pressed them in, may have turned up a steel sleeve to put in the press that was the right height to center them when they bottomed out on a flat plate… you’ll come up with a slick method I’m sure.
@davidkimmel5153
Ай бұрын
Very interesting. Thanks
@DanA-nl5uo
Ай бұрын
I am willing to guess they are worried the process of replacing the bushing would put too much stress on the weld.
@christianmccollum1028
Ай бұрын
Man, can't wait to see what it is. Hmm....scratches head
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