For me, the power imbalance was gone when she leaves him despite his begging her to stay with him despite his wife and to escape where no one’s knows them. Whatever power over her he may have, be it love or money, she’s denies due to her moral good. The power balance shifts in her favor when he becomes disabled and she has the money to choose him or not.
@catiebloomfield9596
5 ай бұрын
Even without the money she still has a choice. She lives in poverty after she leaves Edward and before she meets St. John.
@kay-kay6483
5 ай бұрын
Yes, exactly. They don't really become equals, Jane becomes the person with power in the relationship. Their ages are honestly irrelevant.
@rockchik631
5 ай бұрын
I think you are probably right - the whole framing of "reader, I married him" just vibes empowerment and freedom of choice, and if they were equals it could've been "we married" or something else.
@pushista9322
5 ай бұрын
Yes, you're talking emotional power balance between them, however by fleeing Jane damaged her social status as there would be no recommendations for future employers and she would likely fall victim to crime, hunger or disease very soon (if it was real life and not a fairy tale with her stumbling upon her lost relatives who truly came to love her)
@justarandomperson78
6 ай бұрын
Sometimes I hate when Age gap romances don't acknowledge the age gap when it's clearly mentioned someway in some settings/scenes 😂😂.. like it's your genre atleast embrace it lol 😂😂
@Dragonmoon1598
6 ай бұрын
Here's looking at you Twilight. 😁
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
@@Dragonmoon1598But Bella and Edward are the same age. He's just been frozen at that point in development - cause he's actually dead (😂). And they act the same age. I just find it strange to call it an age gap?
@Dragonmoon1598
6 ай бұрын
@@cmm5542 Ya, no. I'll concede that to a point, but he's been alive for 100 years. He doesn't have the mind of a true seventeen year old. Life experience counts for something. I truely couldn't care less, seeing as by the time they progress their relationship, Bella' s 18. But, Edward's mental capacity is more than that of a seventeen year old. Which, seeing as he's a father, it would need to be. Imagine having teenagers as parents for your whole life.
@voltair42
6 ай бұрын
@@cmm5542 He's a 150 year old guy that kept skipping school enough each year that he never graduated. He wasn't a bad kid, just couldn't seem to get his priorities straight. That doesn't mean he should be dating the 17 year old in Art class.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
@@Dragonmoon1598I don't think it counts as life experience if you're dead though! 😆 (My problem is the magic powers and superstrength imbalance. In ALL vampire romances, not just Twillight. Buffy gets a pass because she was also superhuman 😁) Edit: Okay, I lied. She gets a pass because SPIKE 😅
@suebursztynski2530
5 ай бұрын
Strictly speaking, the wife in the attic is there because she would otherwise be in an asylum. Rochester says that, and that she would be mistreated. So, she is there to protect her, not to abuse her. He also looks after the little girl who was the daughter of his former mistress even though he doesn’t know if the child is his. He is worth Jane loving.
@narliehs1648
5 ай бұрын
Very true. I never saw Bertha being locked in the attic as a bad thing, considering the alternatives. Asylums, especially in those days, were horrendous places not meant to help any of their patients/prisoners at all. She clearly wasn't fit to be walking around, given her propensity for violence and pyromania. Her family had dumped her on Rochester without clueing him in to her issues, so they wouldn't have been of any help. And Rochester gave her a live-in nurse in the form of Grace, though he probably could've done better than one who evidently got blackout drunk on the reg.
@suebursztynski2530
5 ай бұрын
@@narliehs1648 well said! And exactly what Rochester explained.
@narliehs1648
5 ай бұрын
@@suebursztynski2530 Yeah. Poor dude has really been unfairly dunked on by a lot of people, tbh. Particularly in regards to the age difference, social/financial standing disparity and the fact that she used to work for him. Personally, I couldn't see it happening any other way. He clearly had no interest in the social scene, likely stemming from his previous experiences, so meeting someone that way was out. He couldn't help his age, obvi. And, what, did they expect him to just toss away his entire fortune, etc to be penniless like Jane in order to be her equal? Tbf, he probably would've if she'd asked, but still, what would they have lived on? In the end, the balance did fall in favor of Jane, really. She's now independently wealthy while he's financially/socially ruined and disabled. It's a good thing they only want each other.
@catiebloomfield9596
5 ай бұрын
@@narliehs1648I wonder if Grace Poole intentionally let Bertha out to punish him.
@narliehs1648
5 ай бұрын
@@catiebloomfield9596 Eh, that's doubtful. He hired her to look after Bertha, after all. Intention letting her out would've put her job on the line and maybe even given her a reputation if it got out. I'd find it more likely that Grace's charge was dosing her with something. Bertha may have been violently insane with who knows what, but she was intelligent. She knew how to get her way whenever possible.
@WatchingWhileAsleep
6 ай бұрын
my biggest problem is when theres a gap and they are technically both consenting adults BUT the older knew the younger as a child 😬😬 stop that
@usdutchkitty
6 ай бұрын
Hate to break it to ya but that happens in real life, like my grandparents with an 18 year gap, the families knew each other, enough though Pap-paw was “higher class “, WW2 happened, years go by, he went back to want to marry my Mam-Maw, a grown adult, his mother threatened to disinherit him if he did it… He called her bluff, he got disinherited and my grandparents had a steady life for each other. Is it rare? Yes but It can happen.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
@@usdutchkittyI love authors who write about rare experiences, because where else will individuals who HAVE those rare experiences find support since no one else around them does? Happy for your grandparents 🙂
@usdutchkitty
6 ай бұрын
@@cmm5542 compliment? Well for me, that is why I have no problem with age gaps, if done right because of seeing it first hand.
@kyoyameganebereznoff
5 ай бұрын
@@usdutchkittyHow frequently does it happen now, though? Because my grandma got married and started having kids at fifteen and no one batted an eye then. Would be a whole different story today.
@novaexx6587
5 ай бұрын
I'm side eyeing "Sinner" by Sierra Simone that I've almost finished and I kind of dig... 👀👀
@KerraLong
6 ай бұрын
Yes! Wholeheartedly, yes. Certainly you see and know of the age gap between them, but Jane's upbringing, schooling, and even personality, allow her to stand tall against Rochester as she comes to love him on her own terms- not taken in by his wealth or power, and in spite of the years between them.
@zirconelle
6 ай бұрын
This is good example of cultural mores / conventional wisdom changing fairly rapidly. I don't recall anyone being freaked out by the age gap in many classic novels and movies, including Jane Eyre, when I was younger. Very few people thought it was a problematic even 20 years ago. But our cultural opinion on this has changed very recently, especially as certain exploitative/ predatory practices (and people) in Hollywood have come to light. So we know find it unsettling, and it has to be explained to modern readers, or even justified.
@annagartner289
4 ай бұрын
Rightfully so
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
@@annagartner289Why 'rightfully'? What is the logical or ethical basis for thinking an untested view held for only a couple decades at most, is more likely to be right than one which has been tried and tested and remained throughout millennia of advanced human civilization? Traditions don't last that long unless they actually work. Humans are stupid enough to keep a bad social practice for a few decades, maybe a century, but not across all creeds and cultures for millennia. I absolutely hate this modern arrogance of 'all the moral values we've just made up now are right, and everybody who lived before us was wrong.' I mean, seriously it's so ignorant and narrow-minded. Modern ageism about relationships is getting to be just as bad as Victorian classism was.
@Ceares
6 ай бұрын
As someone who grew up reading historical romances, I literally don't even notice an age difference unless it's more than 10 years. Relationships have power imbalances in a lot of different ways and age is only one of them and not even the most important one. After all, in a relationship you will eventually get older and even though the other person will always be older than you, past a certain age, it doesn't make that much difference. Financial and class imbalances are much more long standing, both within the relationship and externally. If you're the stripper who married a billionaire, you're gonna be that forever. That will probably be in your obit.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
Completely agree. I'm far more concerned about socioeconomic or educational imbalance than age when it comes to power dynamics. And it's not like they can't be overcome - books that show how to do it well can be helpful for people in those situations in real life!
@bive4167
4 ай бұрын
Exactly. Billionaires (or rich men) are set up with average income women in romance since forever. If we're talking about power imbalances, that's the biggest one there is.
@jenniferhanses
4 ай бұрын
Agreed. If it's less than 10 years, it's not terribly weird unless they're especially young. Somewhere around the 10 year mark is where it starts getting weird. Also depends on when they marry. I'm not upset about a 70 year old marrying a 50 year old. I am concerned about a 36 year old marrying a 16 year old.
@tauraisaha9557
6 ай бұрын
Recently discovered your channel, and it feels like the small child inside my heart that still wants to be friends with a dragon, has come alive again. Thank you so much for what you do. Looking forward to reading your books!
@tobyameson3159
5 ай бұрын
Highly recommend the Daindreth's Assassin books for magical, mildly political romantasy with amazingly juicy emotions and well-developed characters with a lot of heart.
@tracyfitch4873
6 ай бұрын
Thank you! Jane Eyre is my favorite book. Charlotte was so ahead of her time and Jane was incredibly intelligent, resilient, independent and strong. Unfortunately, not everyone sees the book that way.
@8114梦见
6 ай бұрын
I like Jane Eyre a lot, I’m just not huge on the semi-religious motif at the end where she goes back to Rochester. I was really appreciating her character growth, and how she was able to build a new life from scratch, and so the ended felt a bit abrupt to me. Would be curious to hear what you think about it?
@msk-qp6fn
5 ай бұрын
I really love jane and her journey!!
@dragonwarriorz1
4 күн бұрын
@@8114梦见 I loved the ending. Romance and spirituality are so beautiful! Jane loved Mr. Rochester. It's a shame you would want her to deny her love!
@meganreese1486
6 ай бұрын
I mean, St John is not exactly an appealing other option, 😂 but it's true. He was a viable and respectable option.
@PowerToolsofJustice
5 ай бұрын
I mean he is described as being gorgeous. He also kindly takes Jane in when she is super ill and helps her find a job. He is also employed and does genuinely want to help people. On the downside he is very much a man of his time and is a bit fanatical but not so much outside the norm for a religious type.
@Char10tti3
5 ай бұрын
Aren't they also first cousins?@@PowerToolsofJustice
@cussedcat28
5 ай бұрын
@@Char10tti3 Yeah, but this was Victorian England, people were into that shit 😂
@theforgotten1213
5 ай бұрын
I always assumed he only wanted to get married with Jane because he didn't want to be alone while being a missionary.
@gray_mara
5 ай бұрын
@@theforgotten1213 I think in a way that in itself would be appealing to Jane. She can't give him her heart, but he doesn't want it. He isn't asking for something she can't give. In the end Jane stands up for her own dreams and desires and will settle for nothing less.
@ahanadatta2911
6 ай бұрын
Take Rebecca by Daphne Du Maurier. Its my favorite book of all time. The protagonist and her husband have a huge age gap and power imbalance and those are mentioned but its only visible to the society which is judgmental and makes her insecure of her marriage. They clearly show how his seemingly perfect marriage with a perfect wife was a mirage and how this unconventional match actually had love and devotion thus being a suitable match after all. Also they finally broke down the economic status imbalance at the end when Mr. De Winter lost his estate and thus was of the same status quo as his wife.
@PowerToolsofJustice
5 ай бұрын
Rebecca is an adaptation of Jane Eyre.
@ahanadatta2911
5 ай бұрын
@@PowerToolsofJustice Yes I know. But Rebecca is a much more modern context though almost a century old as well. And I like Mr de Winter much more than Mr Rochester. Plus the ending of Jane Eyre seems very forced to me whereas the ending of Rebecca shows love and devotion.
@i.b.640
5 ай бұрын
Mr Rocheaster at least is not a killer ...
@cmm5542
5 ай бұрын
@@PowerToolsofJusticeIt's actually a different author's take on the same plot. There are only seven; if you count all sub-plot variations, about 40. More than one author is going to write on the same plot; that doesn't make their work unoriginal. I had a story planned once about a devoted but possessive older sister who was jealous and depressed by her younger sister's marriage. Then I found out C.S. Lewis had already written it in Till We Have Faces. Two or more people can come up with the same idea independently!
@tripunk
5 ай бұрын
@@ahanadatta2911wow, see I loved maxim when I was younger but as an older woman who is in a loving relationship now, I feel he was so mired in guilt and angst he could not help or support his insecure, fragile and weak 2nd wife, leaving her to almost lose her mind at Manderley. I much enjoyed Rochester more, who appeared to be more of Jane Eyre’s equal and who did not uh murder his wife in a fit of rage…
@AubreyAndersen
6 ай бұрын
Age gap happens in real life all the time, too many authors just gloss over the realism and make it sexual or not important or completely spin it to unrealistic or sexual
@EsmeeAnnamarie
6 ай бұрын
Tolkien did it best with Arwen and Aragorn. The two of them literally had a 2690 year age gap and it didn't feel weird for a second! And before that he also had Beren and Luthien, who had a similarly large age gap, but it is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful love stories in existence. But then, when it comes to literature, Tolkien does everything best. That is just a fact.
@AshleyHankey
6 ай бұрын
It helps that he met her before so we are smack dab in the middle of the relationship.
@i.b.640
5 ай бұрын
And he was just a child to Arwen until he was about 50 or so ;-) so they acknowledge that with an age gap the younger Partner shouldn't be very young.
@Dragonmoon1598
6 ай бұрын
Spot on. Also, emotional maturity. For example, "I've know a lot more mature 18 year olds compared to some 30 plus year olds." Great. But, someone 30 plus still has a lot more life experience than an 18 year old. Even someone with the most sincere intentions still comes off looking bad. I'm not going to judge, but I truly don't understand the inability to find someone closer to your age. It's not so much that there is an age gap. But, the amount of gap between the ages.
@Lilith_The_Earthling
6 ай бұрын
Great point. And when someone is specifically seeking out younger partners, it (rightfully) immediately becomes suspicious. Like, are you *trying* to be with someone you have some form of power over?
@pohjanvanamo
6 ай бұрын
Finding a good potential match is an extremely hard task. In my eyes, it's always at least a small miracle, though in bigger picture these miracles happen every day. I just don't want to be restricted of something that does not seem a huge issue for me. If I can be good friends with people of different ages, why would there be an invisible boundary in for a relationship? If what I want in life fits in to that picture. I will make agreements and compromises in life according to the sincere soul searching I have done so far. And even if I go my life without making this specific big agreement, I do want to live a life that seems important to me. Sorry, I got carried away. But this is something I had to have a lot of thoughts about, and before the next big miracle in my personal life, I might need to think quite some more. This been my journey for the past 20 years, and I do understand a difficulty of even finding anyone to consider, regardless of age.
@pohjanvanamo
6 ай бұрын
@@Lilith_The_EarthlingHaha, I'm always a little suspicious if someone is deliberately evaluating other people if they would be a good partner for them 🤣 If there's a connection, and you are free to pursuit, fine. But don't force a connection, lol, that's not a good indication for direction 😂 But just my thoughts... 😅
@Dragonmoon1598
6 ай бұрын
@@pohjanvanamo Accurate points. As some others have mentioned. The true crux of the situation is if you actively seek younger partners. Double standard to those who prefer older partners I know. But, in a sense, someone whose preferences lean to younger people doesn't seem like someone who has the best intentions. But, more to your point, yes, if you develop a genuine healthy connection with someone. Who just happens to be younger, but your initial "goals" weren't to pursue them lustfully. Then, yes, such barriers shouldn't stop an experience. But, if that is the case, that would imply a lack of pressure for things to develop in a certain direction.
@Dragonmoon1598
6 ай бұрын
@@Lilith_The_Earthling I feel, generally, someone who actively seeks younger people does so out of the insecurity of getting older. They are trying to recapture a moment of their youth. Or they see that person as an object of desire or a "trophy." Again, it is overly generalizing, but that is the narrative pushed by many forms of media, to the point I feel there is some accuracy to be found. Of course, not everyone has such selfish intentions. But I would be cautious of the older persons motivations.
@CeliriaRose
6 ай бұрын
To me I feel like people nitpick age gap romance too much. It often feels like people have a pre-conceived attitude that it is automatically bad and start reaching for any excuse to justify why there is something wrong with it (usually where you start hearing very vague and subjective factors being thrown in). To me I’d argue that it’s simple. If they are consenting adults, there isn’t an explicit power dynamic involved such as boss employee/student teacher, and neither side is being blatantly predatory about it such as taking advantage of an older person’s loneliness or capitalizing on how impressionable a younger person might be (which I’d argue is less an age gap issue and more just manipulating people’s weaknesses in relationships is bad regardless of age difference) then it’s fine. Let consenting adults be consenting adults. At some point people should be allowed to make their own choices for better or worse and hold the blame themselves if it doesn’t work out not the age gap or some vague and subjective concept. Also to add with the predatory bit I feel like people should hold judgement until there’s some actual basis to back it up (this leans a bit more towards real life). By all means caution is fine and if you are worried that someone is being taken advantage of by all means keep an eye on it to be safe but a lot of people seem really quick to assumeor accuse that any older person is a predator or any younger person is a gold digger even when there is no actual backing. It reminds me of the people who start shouting at people using disabled parking because “You don’t look disabled”. Just give people a reasonable benefit of the doubt until actual reason beyond baseless assumption surfaces. You don’t know them or their lives so take a moment to try and find proof before condemning what could very well just be a happy relationship.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
Very well said. Completely agree.
@Soulcrash3
5 ай бұрын
The potential damage being done by someone taking up a parking lot they shouldn't and the potential damage of a predatory relationship are however extremely different in magnitude and I believe the caution and negative bias we have towards things isn't based on the possibility of things being ok or everything going right. But in how terrible of a fuck up it can be and wether or not we believe it is worth bothering about it. Not being able to shop for groceries because an asshole was assholing, although terrible and taxing, isn't on the same level as potential emotional, physical and financial abuse... in worst case scenario death. All of which are extremely common in such relationships, most people having actually seen or interacted with those abuse dynamics, which is how the negative bias started in the first place. Or grooming. A looot of people seem to willfully ignore how many of these "age gap" relationships didn't come to be organically and are just the result of decades of grooming. That the law no longer protects these people after a certain age, even if the abuse started while they were literal children just makes matters worse. If the law won't punish it society will.
@licas3214
5 ай бұрын
@@Soulcrash3lol, somehow I just have to reply, you know I still will read the book either with age gap romance or power imbalance (people have kink you know, and yes, I see red flag and it's my favourite colour lol)
@Soulcrash3
5 ай бұрын
@@licas3214 I wasn't really saying anything about books, just that the OG comment was trying to make a point about our society and how it views age gap relationships by doing a straw man with the whole equating shouting Karens who say things like people don't "look disabled" to people being genuinely concerned for good reason about a likely power imbalance and abuse. Real life and fiction aren't the same you can read whatever you want lol
@annaniskanen2557
5 ай бұрын
I sometimes feel like people in general harp a bit too much about fiction. Like, it is FICTION for a reason. Yes, it isn't divorced from the reality but fiction allows you to sort of "experience" things that you could not experience in real life, at least not in safe, controlled manner. Fiction does not need to be non-icky, non-creepy or what not. Sure, framing matters but even if/when things are framed properly, people can still enjoy and get thrills from things that are VERY problematic or even downright wrong and criminal in real life - and that is perfectly fine.
@msshellm8154
6 ай бұрын
I detest the Jane-Rochester dynamic at the end of the book - the implication is weighted towards his disfigurement and 'fall' rather than her 'rise.' Then again, my hard arse, Women's Lit. Prof. called me "hard hearted Hattie" for my contrarian attitude to "Jane Eyre" (and almost every other book we covered lol) The only professor who ever intimidated me - she was wicked smart - and _I_ was the one who disagreed on almost every book lol (NOT because I was contrary lol, but I genuinely [apparently] read things differently 🤷🏻♀️ ) And I detested Rochester, and how the ending was somehow 'fairytale' because she was now 'good enough' when he was disfigured, _and_ blind ... that doesn't sound "romantic" to me - on any level. I know some the movie adaptions do a good job, but that book always bugged me. 😊 I haven't thought of "hard hearted Hattie" in a while lol _Every_ single class, we had the discussion and when it came time for, "any other thoughts, disagreements, etc.," my hand went up lol and everyone smiled. At least the discussions were always interesting 😁
@alex_blue5802
6 ай бұрын
I have heard the interpretation that Jane was only good enough for Rochester once he was blinded, but I don't agree. I think his disability negated a lot of their power difference, and for that reason Jane felt more comfortable with the match knowing that they could depend on each other rather than him providing for her.
@cmm5542
5 ай бұрын
@@alex_blue5802I literally never saw a power imbalance in their relationship; and to me Rochester's fate was more about a realistic opportunity to get rid of the first mad wife - if she had died in the fire without Rochester attempting to save her, it would have basically been murder and Jane would never have married him. His choice to try and help the person who had (however inadvertently) ruined his life and chance at happiness, knowing that saving Bertha would mean he could never marry ANYONE, he still tried. Showing he was now on JANE'S level of morality and self-sacrifice. The financial and class imbalance between them had already been overcome by Jane's coming into a fortune, but that was clearly a (rather forced actually) sop to the strict classist sensibilities of the time; Bronte had already made it very clear that Jane did not see herself as Rochrster's inferior, nor him her, over something as basic as money - as a person she was always his equal and even superior. I think pushing all this 'power imbance' discussion of the book disrespects the author's message that true equality is found in the human heart, not changeable external circumstances.
@heatherstiara8033
5 ай бұрын
I never think any age gap romance is “icky”. Maybe because my husband is 19 years older than me. I’m a millennial and I find I didn’t get along with guys my age. My husband and I are perfectly suited for one another. My parents were worried until they met him. Then they realized and admitted he was perfect for me. We’ve been married 13 years.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
I'm not married, but I have friends with much older partners whose relationships I greatly admire, so it's never bothered me either 😊
@jk3mom
5 ай бұрын
Loved Jane Eyre. Probably read it at least 5 times as an adolescent
@Zeverinsen
5 ай бұрын
NGL, I've always been VERY skeptical of age gaps in general, and well into my 20's I was totally against dating someone more than 1 year younger or 5 years older than me. The thing is that I never really took into account how your personality and individual levels of maturity factors into this, but it _really_ smacked me in the face when I started to date someone I thought was older than me, but turned out to be 4 years younger 💀 We are both in our twenties, but it still feels weird whenever I actually think about it, because we level each other out so well. I often forget that we aren't the same age or that I'm actually the oldest, and the only thing that reminds me is really the fact that I'll be 30 in a couple of years... _Maybe that's how it feels to the people with bigger gaps as well?_
@jessicavenable4188
5 ай бұрын
In addition to the power imbalance that Bronte bridges, she also bridges a gap that Rochester himself points out when he tells Jane that when he was young he was her equal with a clear conscience. When Thornfield burns he clears his conscience towards his first wife by heroically trying to rescue her and was injured after failing to do so. By proving to himself who he can be, he clears ground for himself to be that person and becomes a truer match for Jane.
@MargaretPinard
6 ай бұрын
Happy Charlotte Brontë birthday, by the way! 🎉❤😊
@KestrelDC
5 ай бұрын
I also think the particular ages matter a lot more than the size of the gap. Like a 4 year age gap isn’t much for most people but like… an 18 YO and a 14 YO would NOT be ok but then a 28 YO and a 24 YO is really no big deal. A gap of 10 years between a 35 YO and a 45 YO means a whole lot less than that 4 year gap between those hypothetical teenagers.
@charlessawyer96
6 ай бұрын
Woohoo! As someone whose favourite book is Jane Eyre, I am very glad you used it as the example for this. 😁😁
@esm1817
6 ай бұрын
Yes. I think that fire was really important. Also because we see his strength of character in a new way when he tries to save his wife...even though his life would be way easier if she was gone. I can't stand Rochester before the accident. He was so busy trying to spoil her every conceivable way that it was smothering, so things needed to be leveled out for them to be happy together. Her inheritance: super important for empowering her. When she chose Rochester, it wasn't like she was going back to him because her other thing didn't work out. She had to choose him on purpose. I have always been a bit sad that she chose to go back fully knowing she would be a mistress though. Thematically I always thought her choosing Rochester over the driven-to-India pastor dude (St. John??) was interesting. I would love to discuss that at length with someone someday.
@alex_blue5802
6 ай бұрын
If he hadn't loved somebody else then maybe she would be swayed by the idea of a marriage of convenience. I think seeing the other love interest really hammered home that she was a second choice, and she has too much self respect for that. Even if she would have been a mistress instead of a legal wife, Rodchester wanted her above anyone. Above a beautiful woman of his own class even.
@PandoraBear357
5 ай бұрын
The inheritance and his wife dying were the biggest levelers of their power imbalance to me. People forget that in those days, a governess being able to find work depended on being able to get a recommendation or at least not acquire a bad reputation from their previous employer. Rochester had much more power over Jane than a current employer would even have over someone in Jane's situation today. If she had gone back to him without an independent fortune of her own and his wife was still alive, if anything happened to him or things ended badly between them, it would be disaster for Jane. A rumor of her having been his mistress would have ruined her chances of gaining employment with a respectable family.
@facebren
6 ай бұрын
Age gap will always make me feel icky. In some cases, the book is good enough that I can ignore it (like Emma), but I just don't like it. I can't relate to it at all. People can make whatever choice they want, in books or real life, but I can choose what to read or write and I don't feel the need for age gap. Maybe when I'm older it will make more sense to me but as a 28 year old I can't ever imagine wanting to date someone more than 5 years removed from me in either direction. Even that would be a lot and I'd immediately be conscious of how it affected the relationship dynamics. It just seems weird that someone who'd be closer to a father figure would want to get with you. That makes it icky for me no matter what. And why would you want to get with a father figure? That's also icky to me. I just don't understand it.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
It's incompatibility. I wouldn't want it either, but I think it's judgemental to call it 'icky.' You just don't expect to have much in common, so why bother? But authors tend to take unusual situations that are UNLIKELY to work and figure out HOW to make them work. Usually the age-gap is two characters who are not compatible with their OWN generations, so they find each other.
@JUNJYR
3 ай бұрын
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words!
@collinbeal
5 ай бұрын
That's the same version of Jane Eyre I own, and I just got around to it this year! What a brilliantly complex, thrilling, and emotional novel. Some of the scenes were Tolstoy levels of vivid in my theater of the mind. It's hard to believe that it was her first story, but then again, she put herself into it with the boarding school. I got the same chills with Jane resting on the deathbed of her good friend as I did with the little sister perishing from malnutrition in Grave of the Fireflies; you could tell it was pulled directly from Brontë's lived experiences and regrets.
@nicole7884
5 ай бұрын
I dont mind age gaps, I watch the (secretly an 8000 year old witch who just looks like a child) animie after all. What I care about is do they respect eachother and is it healthy? Do they bring out the best in eachother or not? Can they talk about their concerns without thinking the other will react negativly etc.
@CleverlyCoCo
5 ай бұрын
Thank you!!! Jane Eyre is one of my favorites, and I've been seeing a lot of hate for it recently. This is awesome!❤
@keepperspective
6 ай бұрын
Laurie R King’s the Mary Russel Series. Mostly mystery but the age gap romance part is amazing.
@alex_blue5802
6 ай бұрын
I LOVE that series. It's not just the age gap but also the way she rejects the subservient position expected of her by society.
@pohjanvanamo
6 ай бұрын
Thank you. I recently payed attention to my own reservations towards age cap relationships 😅 Funny, because I thought, I didn't have much 😅 But this was a good and kind take on the topic. On a side note, it's funny that when people talk about power imbalance, I don't think about wealth, physical depency or societal role. I think about: if they have a fight, can both hold their ground? Can both of them be themselves with each other? Is there a fitting support and a fitting opposition?
@AbigailPoirier
6 ай бұрын
Going by your criteria, Jane was an equal to Rochester from the beginning -- which I think she was. She would not bend her convictions for him, she considered herself his equal in some ways and told him as much. She was every bit as strong-willed as he was.
@RachelReadsandWrites
6 ай бұрын
This! I'm writing an age gap romance where people might argue there's a potential power imbalance later on, BUT she stands her ground in fights, and ultimately, the supposed power imbalance is her choice, not his. In other words, she is offered an option and accepts. There is never any pressure from him.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
@@AbigailPoirierI've always thought she was his equal the whole time.
@alex_blue5802
6 ай бұрын
@@cmm5542intellectually she absolutely was, but you can see how uncomfortable she felt with their difference in wealth when he tries to buy her clothes and spoil her.
@Char10tti3
5 ай бұрын
I feel like the age gap is mentioned, but there is much more going on in both characters lives that it's just part of their relationship. Also, I think that seeing Jane mature and become less "wild" in comparison to her childhood shows that she is younger, but since she was never really naive, there isn't as much of a creepy element to it as there could have been.
@pushista9322
5 ай бұрын
That's exactly what I concluded upon reading Jane Eyre. It's a fairy tale in a sense that Jane magically becomes more powerful while Rochester loses some of his power and honestly he benefits from it because he was a spoilt brat and even his initial attraction to Jane didn't make him more mature. The injury did. Love this book.
@sundus928
5 ай бұрын
It stil sucks that for a balance, Rochester had to become disabled amd his house burnt down to be able to be seen as "equal" . As if Rochester had to stoop low to become her equal. But even then, he doesn't like the idea that Jane will now be the provider and is independent. He makes it her responsibility to be his guidance. Still a pos, but atleast there's love from both sides and Jane is satisfied. I'm just glad that I grew out of my "Jane Eyre" phase of being obsessed with the Romance in it. Only when I grew up i realised the feminist themes in it. Jane is very much aware of how the society works, she's aware of her insecurities and her infatuation, she's a Christian and holds on to her values. Had it been just a Romance novel, the focus would only be on her infatuation and finding love. She just wanted to survive ,forgive and move on. Basically, her Values and awareness takes away the power imbalance, not just the inheritance.
@jjp0004
5 ай бұрын
My fave historical age gap romance is Emma because although he does chastise her there doesn’t feel like a power imbalance :) and she also considers not getting married at all.
@samanthagibson5791
6 ай бұрын
I have a book series I like, but when the relationships start its very odd. Almost every relationship has an older nam and a younger woman, or unknown ages. But once an older woman was interested in a younger man and that was immediately strange and wrong. But I agree on power dynamics being a big problem, that needs fixing. Life experience are the next issue, but that can be less of a problem, highly situational. Came across another series by the same author and another age-gap romance. Fortunately that relationship was never focus, but that might be why that relationship felt very wrong, even if it was 'meant to be' via effectively visions. That's not enough with that degree of age gap. Reasonable stories, but the focus is generally not on the romance, and thats probably for the best.
@the_demon_cat337
6 ай бұрын
I feel like when the age gap is also maters like a 10 year age gap like 18 and 28 (heavy side eye) 30 and 40 ok not my business.
@lindsayswarthout9227
6 ай бұрын
Yes! To me, and like she said in the video, the issue is the risk of a power imbalance. Since 18 year olds generally do not have much adult life experience or independence (or as much of a chance to save or establish a career), the risk of a power imbalance is higher. This doesn’t instantly go away at a certain age, but gradually is less of an issue over time. I think of the risk of a power imbalance relationship based on the age of the younger partner - for someone who is 18 a 5-year age gap might seem like a lot, while it’s almost nothing for someone in their 30s.
@DawnoftheDance4477
5 ай бұрын
If you read the Yellow Wallpaper then go back and read Jayne Erye the wife in the attic might hit different.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
Except Rochester's wife is actually criminally insane.
@archionblu
6 ай бұрын
Maybe it's my experience with BDSM dynamics, but I don't think age-gap is what's inherently weird. As you state in the video, what you find 'weird' is power imbalance. And it's true, a lot of relationships with power imbalances can be unhealthy...but there are hundreds of ways power can be unbalanced in a relationship, and it's a liiiiittle ageist to place it all at the feet of age-gap? IMO, at least, age gaps and other power imbalances are fine! IF there is 1. acknowledgment of a power imbalance, 2. a co-agreed upon structure for managing that imbalance, and 3. outside support particularly for the party with less power. Anyone who is familiar with (healthy) BDSM has the tools for cover 1 & 2, and 3 is just a part of /any/ healthy relationship.
@limalicious
5 ай бұрын
Jane Eyre is one of my favorite books. She returned of her own volition after coming into herself as a person and finding family she didn't know she had (both her inheritance AND family are a safety net, abus3rs cut you from both), and she has time and space to realize Rochester had done as right as he could by his mentally ill wife in a time where asylums were AWFUL.
@PowerToolsofJustice
5 ай бұрын
Lets be careful when we use the fire and Rochester's resulting disability as a "leveling" factor. Even though the book makes it clear that it is that, our current conversations need to take into account how ablist it is when discussing it. In so that we dont perpetuate ablist conventions.
@cmm5542
5 ай бұрын
I don't think the book does use his disability as a leveling factor. The point is that Rochester self-sacrifically attempts to save his mad wife at the risk of his own future happiness, proving himself worthy of Jane, who has already sacrificed her chance of happiness to uphold her moral values. Until Rochester does the same, he isn't a good partner for Jane not because of 'equality,' but because having the same moral values is key to a healthy relationship. Rochester had to learn what Jane already knew about right and wrong; his different circumstances meant he gained that understanding later in life. Jane shows COMPASSION for Rochester's disability; she isn't using him. She never saw herself as Rochester's inferior and if it hadn't been for his wife would have married him without having yet come into a fortune or him being disabled. Those things ate just standard Victorian melodrama; readers of the time would not have been thinking about 'levelling.' Equality was understood more philosophically back then in the 'rights of man' era, to which Bronte clearly refers - Jane's HUMANITY makes her Rochester's equal, not anything in their circumstances.
@cindellednic
5 ай бұрын
Age gap power imbalances aren't based on the younger person's options or the choices thet have though, they're based on a discrepancy in life experience that can allow the older partner to easily manipulate the younger and less experienced one.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
But not all young people have less life experience. Jane had seen the worst parts of life from her abusive family and corrupt school before she was 12 years old. She'd made the extremely difficult and mature decision to be a good person regardless. She had been working for several years before coming to Thornfield. She had far more genuine 'life experience' than the wealthy and indulged Rochester. Only his tragedy with his wife made him even close to being Jane's equal.
@raha3617
6 ай бұрын
The couple could be lovers in a previous life and happened to be reincarnated by 8+ years difference, and because they know each other well it doesn’t feel like an age gap
@pisces2569
6 ай бұрын
I feel like that still feel weird unless both parties are over 30. They may have the memories of a previous life but their brains are still not fully developed
@sekaihatsu
6 ай бұрын
Did someone say Sailor Moon? When you are the girls' age it's romantic but when you get to be Darien/Mamoru's age, it's not but then again, they are reincarnated lovers. Still a better love story than Twilight (and Romeo and Juliet).
@MorrahaDesigns
6 ай бұрын
@@sekaihatsuI loved Sailor Moon when I was young. Then I found out that she's, around 14 and he is in his 20s. I can't even watch it anymore. It gives me icks.
@milig
5 ай бұрын
Something similar happens in a webtoon that has a pretty well balanced power, he's 8 years older than her and the son of the ceo and they work at the same company but she has memories from all her previous lives which gives her a lot of knowledge and experience that he doesn't and she's the one that pursues him in the first place.
@Oznerock
5 ай бұрын
@@MorrahaDesigns No- She's 14 and he's just gotten to 17 in the manga, 18 in the anime. By the time they start dating she's 15 and he's 17. They for some reason had him be older by a year in the anime.
@jediping
6 ай бұрын
Hm interesting. I didn’t think of his injuries from the fire as leveling the imbalance, in part because I don’t like that Jane went back to Thornfield without knowing his new condition, but it’s not a bad point. :)
@usdutchkitty
6 ай бұрын
Cause plot twist?
@tealcanary5243
5 ай бұрын
Except she didn't. Iirc, she went to Thornfield to see about his young ward. Jane stumbled upon Rochester's new, much more humble abode by accident after leaving the ruins of Thornfield.
@jediping
5 ай бұрын
@@tealcanary5243 My remembrance is that she hears his voice and decides to go back. I could be remembering wrong of course. Not my favorite book so I haven’t felt the need to revisit it to figure out if it’s as bad as I remember.
@annaniskanen2557
5 ай бұрын
I mean... power imbalance is icky if you feel like it is icky. In real life yes, it often is problematic and icky. But I do not read fiction because I want to read about real life stuff. I like reading about problematic stuff. I like power imbalance in fiction. That is the magic of fiction; you get to experience the thrills of various problematic things without the actual real life ramifications of them. Because, obviously, there are thrilling things in these; why else would they be so popular.
@LittleCupcakeOfMemories
4 ай бұрын
I don't like the hate age gap receives, they even go to the extent to call ppl p*dos if they're a few months older than their partner. Unless it's with a minor and an adult, or a child/pre-teen with a teen, then let it be; it's not such a big deal. My aunt has 50 and my uncle like 30 ish(? (they both knew each other as independent adults, and it this case they were each other's second marriages) and they're the happiest and healthiest couple ever.
@TheSongwritingCat
5 ай бұрын
Personally, I don't think Jane Eyre solves the age gap problems because Jane is so laden with past traumas and there is so much manipulation and coercion in their initial romance. Jane's youth and her self-sacrifice in fixing Rochester are also still two things he prizes most about her. But if I wanted to argue that there's a "fix" at the end of the book, it's that they're both terrible and accept each other that way. Compare the way Rochester disguises himself as a gypsy to how Jane decides to trick a blind man by walking into the room knowing he can't recognize her until she speaks.
@gabrielalukavei2374
6 ай бұрын
I love you for putting it into words ❤️❤️❤️
@The84336
5 ай бұрын
Honestly, while there definitely is a power imbalance between Jane and Rochester at first, it’s for practically every reason other than age. An age gap of more than twenty years simply wasn’t considered unusual at the time.
@nopesiedaisy
6 ай бұрын
This is a fantastic analysis. Unfortunately for me, Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys is eternally part of my Jane Eyre headcanon, making Rochester pretty darn unlikeable.
@msshellm8154
6 ай бұрын
He was unlikeable anyway, and "The Wide Sargasso Sea" really supported the way I'd read his _character_ in "Jane Eyre." I wonder if readers, in general, changed their opinions about him after 'learning more about him?'
@nopesiedaisy
6 ай бұрын
@@msshellm8154 I believe this calls for us to chase him around with the Baguette of Bludgeoning
@tateworld.dyspraxicGoalkeeper
6 ай бұрын
You are a great author
@annielynn8730
4 ай бұрын
Jane with forever and always be my favorite character in literature
@luthy_1
6 ай бұрын
A good age gap (even tho is not a very big one) is Pride and Prejudice. Elizabeth is 21 and Darcy is 27 i believe. Also Sense and Sensibility with Marianne and the Colonel, i think their age difference is almost 20 years if not more... Now that I think about it so it's Emma and Knightley, shes around 20 and he's 34 if I'm not mistaken... Just realised Jane Austen really loved an age gap 😅
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
I think she just loved realism! And showing all the varieties in relationships - Jane and Bingley are the same age and I believe Elinor and Edward are only two years apart. I don't think age mattered to Jane at all.
@Su-krosLily
6 ай бұрын
@@cmm5542 I agree, I don't think JA cared much and it was probably more common to have an age gap back then, right? For my part I like to have my characters the exact same age😃
@licas3214
5 ай бұрын
@@Su-krosLily and there's me who loves the age gap and power imbalance 😂(yes, I see the red flag and it's my favourite colour)
@jjp0004
5 ай бұрын
Emma!!!! 🥰
@msk-qp6fn
5 ай бұрын
Honestly elizabeth and darcy is barely an age gap in that time, marianne and the colonel now THAT'S an age gap
@LiaaaaaaaaAAAAAHH
5 ай бұрын
There is SO MUCH academic debate over the age gap, and power dynamic in _Jane Eyre._ many have and will say that IS weird😅
@nicolazex51
6 ай бұрын
Putting it this way I absolutely agree. But I honestly never put two and two together in context of them being age gap relationship… I always thought of them as class differences relationship that breaks the rules of masters not marrying their servants especially not the governess…
@Ceares
6 ай бұрын
Yes, the class and wealth power imbalance overshadows the age one imo.
@cmm5542
6 ай бұрын
I also don't even remember it being MENTIONED that they have an age gap? Rochester was married off by his father while still a minor I believe, and Jane has been a teacher for years - how do we know they're not the same age?
@lunabutterfly4081
5 ай бұрын
I saw Jane Eyre and got a big smile on my face One of the few good examples of a Age gap romance that works that’s not in the fantasy genre
@lovetolovefairytales
6 ай бұрын
I'm currently writing/posting an in progress fanfic where the main couple has a seventy-seven year age gap (he was born in 1904, she in 1981 😬 ) and he's also her teacher so there's a bit of a power imbalance but I'm justifying it via time travel. So i guess I'm mostly okay with big age gaps in fiction as long as the authors don't make it weird. Back to Jane Eyre, i always really liked that book. See, growing up my grandmother hated books (just ALL books, she's a vain illiterate bitch) so new reading material was rare because she'd pitch a fit every time a book was brought into the house; Jane Eyre was one of those that slipped through the cracks because my mom bought it for 2.99 and somehow smuggled it in. I immediately connected with child Jane and her cruel aunt and awful school but i always sort of lost that connection by the time the story got to the romance because i couldn't warm to Mr. Rochester. I couldn't see what she loved so dang much about the ugly grumpy old bastard 😂. But i recently revisited the story as an adult in my thirties and almost cried when they got together in the end. More than 20 years but i finally GET it. I finally understand the book and i love what before I only liked. Anna Popplewell's gorgeous reading on audible added to that too.
@actuallywaffles5267
5 ай бұрын
My issue with a lot of age gap romance is it presents a woman who is barely an adult being partnered with a much older man. It often gives "she's only 18 because you couldn't go lower" vibes. If a woman is older and has had time to develop into her own person first in more comfortable with it. I'm also often reminded of a time Day9 was talking about why he wouldn't date a woman who was still in college once he was in his 30's and his issue was life experience. I want them to both be equals or at least be in a place in life where you can see them talking about their day and still being able to easily understand each other's struggles or views. If he's a business owner with a large number of employees to coordinate for and the biggest struggles she's had are failing a class they have nothing in common and the romance feels creepy.
@SpiffyBlueness
5 ай бұрын
Yeah, I'd say the ick factor is based on power imbalance... But I did also hear a therapist cite some studies and basically recommend against it (but you do you, yknow) (Video: MickeyAtkins, "Are Age Gaps Actually Toxic?")
@sekaihatsu
6 ай бұрын
The power imbalance is inherent in heteronormative culture and I think an age gap enhances that. Then you can add socioeconomic and cultural differences to intensify it.
@juliabe408
5 ай бұрын
I'd say blindness makes way to a huge power imballance. Rochester is dependong on anyone who can help him, while Jane is not depending on anyone in the end at all.
@kohakuaiko
6 ай бұрын
2 other books that do it well are "Alinor", a historical romance in the time period of Robinhood; and "Damia" by Anne McAffrey. Both feature heroines that completely blow power imbalance out of the water
@RandomJayne
5 ай бұрын
It's weird that you bring up Jane having another suitor to show she "has options" to put her on equal footing with Rochester when the book explicitly states that St. John Rivers, although much younger than Rochester and dependent on Jane sharing her fortune with him, nonetheless wields immense psychological control over Jane. And he knowingly exploits this power imbalance, nearly causing Jane to cave into his demands and resign herself to a loveless marriage doing whatever will please him. Meanwhile, Rochester never held that kind of power over her, that's why she was able to leave him even when she had no money or connections of any kind and no other marriage prospects. Jane and Rochester were always equals, even when Rochester had all the advantages and she had nothing, while Jane and St. John were not. Because Rochester respected Jane and Jane was comfortable being herself around him while St. John had no respect for Jane and Jane constantly felt the need to bend to his whims.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
Such a brilliant take!
@sheleavitt06
5 ай бұрын
I just finished reading The Great Illustrated Classic version of Jane Eyre to my 12 year old niece and she was appalled by the age gap because this children’s book spelled it out that he was old enough to be her father and she just couldn’t root for him after that. I did basically try to explain what you did in this video but I’m not sure she got it. I mean I really don’t want her to come away from the book thinking that it’s fine to date someone two decades older than you especially not at her age but I wanted her to focus on how moral a character Jane was because that’s why this book is her grandmother the retired librarian’s favorite book.
@M.Datura
5 ай бұрын
A lot of issues with romantic literature and media I feel comes from the authors' and artists' unwillingness to address power imbalance, but then again that, to me, is a prevalent issue in all social context. A lot of people think they can step out of the "power game" by not thinking about it, or not caring about power/power imbalance, but in fact they are simply relinquishing their ability to notice it, and hence to ensure equality. This spans to creators as well. Not all power imbalance is bad, of course; dimorphism causes physical power imbalance, and intellect, social capacity, etc, creates numerous more, but for certain there's a good way; a healthy, respectful way of doing it, and I agree - it certainly doesn't require this level of extreme either. Respect goes a *long* way.
@GlamGam1964
5 ай бұрын
It was very common in these time periods for girls to marry quite young and for men to marry in their late thirties or even early 40’s. There might be 20 years between them. Marriage motive was usually financial, not love, so titles and lands and bloodlines could be preserved
@KaiseaWings
6 ай бұрын
Curious what people think of the whole 'immortal and mortal' angle. A certain game series has a nicely set up tragic romance which, due to development hell, is definitely going to need some fanfic fill in.
@AicimounLight
5 ай бұрын
Goshhh! THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU YOU BRILLIANT SOUL! exactly ❤
@amyscott2633
2 ай бұрын
Jane Eyre is my all time favorite book ❤
@leorobin832
5 ай бұрын
I feel that stories like Marriage of Convenience, which is a korean web comic get it right. So many manhwa and webcomics get it wrong but there a few good ones like this that really pull it off.
@fulana_de_tal
5 ай бұрын
My favourite romance that has an age gap is Howl's Moving Castle and i'll never stop talking about it because the age gap is so unproblematic that you literally have to go out of your way to do the math or nitpick the fact that he's a phd student to realise Howl is about 9 years older than Sophie. And looks and acts 95 during most of the book even tho she's 18-19, so it's safe to assume Howl doesn't even know how old she actually is, he knows she is young and was cursed to look old, but that's pretty much it? I can't conceive him knowing she's 19 if he didn't even know that she's a ginger. And even tho she is tecnically his employee, there's not a hint of actual power imablance? She just showed up one day like "damn, you live like this? ugh i need i place to stay" and he was like "ok old lady, my pet demon liked you so i'm scared of what will happen if i kick you out, guess i have a maid now". The age gap is such an irrelevant factor that if feels way more like a romance that coincidentaly has an age gap than a proper age gap romance. I don't think the age gap would bother me even if Sophie was actually 95 lmao
@Victoria-dh9vb
5 ай бұрын
For me, the biggest factor is whether the two people are able to experience a similar phase of life together in a similar way. People in their 30s are probably in a similar place in life as people in their 40s. Their lives, maturity levels, and goals can realistically allign in a way that wouldn't be probable if you were looking at someone in their 20s with a person in their 40s. I think the older you get, the less age gaps matter. A 50 y/o with a 75 y/o? Get it. A 25 y/o with a 50 y/o? Flags. Red flags.
@glittercakes7720
5 ай бұрын
That and when you stop to think about fantasy romance age gaps it’s just gets kinda creepy.
@DeerBoy736
6 ай бұрын
How to do Age Gap Romance right? My bigoted answer is don't do it.
@sleepyghostgirl
5 ай бұрын
Jane eyre is literally the last age gap romance i would look to as an example lol. Jane is rochester’s employee, he’s been married and had multiple lovers while she’s never so much as been courted by a man (how could she be when she’s been cloistered in an all girls school her whole life), he toys with her feelings by letting her believe he’s into blanche and finds ways to humiliate and emotionally manipulate her at every turn, never tells jane about bertha before it’s too late, threatens to HURT HER when jane says she’ll leave him for keeping bertha a secret….did i miss anything? Not to mention how he abused bertha, the dehumanizing and misogynistic way he talks about her (keep in mind bertha also has creole heritage so yes it all carries an air of racism as well, not to mention virulent ableism) and the way he behaves so coldly to adele. Can you tell i hate these two lol🤡
@ellanorevannin4147
5 ай бұрын
Another thing that helps with age gap romance (and also goes along with the power difference) is when both people are equally mature. However since I have a cousin who is 15 years younger than her husband i don't find age gaps as weird as other people do.
@janejane-tk3wx
5 ай бұрын
jane eyre is my favorite book ever :)
@LuaBarbosa01
5 ай бұрын
I think the age gap it's solved in Jane Eyre, but the end is still weird. Seems like Jane it's trapped in a situation by herself and no one says nothing because they are some how in debt with her. She could be anything she wanted at that point, but her choices just doesn't feel right.
@sundus928
5 ай бұрын
She's aware and that makes it even worst. It's sad how people see it as Romance and esp how it's adapted on screen. It can work as a fan service but people should stop defending Rochester. He's an old man now with nothing to give in a relationship ( except a child). And that just sucks. But hey, it's the 1800s .
@cmm5542
5 ай бұрын
@@sundus928Love and personal compatibility? It's sad that you think someone has to have 'something to give' to have a relationship. Jane was not using him for gain; she wanted to be with him because SHE LOVED HIM. AS A UNIQUE INDIVIDUAL. Which no one else of any age could have provided her.
@jakeaurod
5 ай бұрын
So, you're saying an older guy can date a younger woman if she's rich and he's disabled? I always thought my cardiac arrest and fibromyalgia/long-covid would make it harder to date.
@hipsepipse
4 ай бұрын
Yep, you can totally make it not weird. One of my favorite straight shops has a 21 yr age gap between the couple. Technically he's a boomer and she's a millennial. However, they meet when she is 32, are at similar points in their lives milestone wise and are both extremely capable and respectful of one another. They don't get together immediately they work together and against each other on multiple occasions, but they respect each other and that they aren't always free to do as they please. It also helps that she is often physically saving his life while he wrangles her superiors into leaving her breathing room or admitting they screwed her over and that they have the same job, but their reporting structures are entirely separate.
@ZipplyZane
2 ай бұрын
Have you ever read the Thursday Next Series, particularly the Eyre Affair? That was my first exposure to this book. I would love to hear someone who is familiar with the original first to read it. There are certain parts I think must've been better for those who know the story. It makes it very clear Jane had a choice.
@MoragOctober
6 ай бұрын
It's a bit of a stretch to describe St.John Rivers as "other options" though. He was gross and Bronte heavily implied that he would have been an abusive husband if Jane had accepted him.
@laytonpro8655
6 ай бұрын
I started reading the graphic novel “Lore Olympus” and it’s interesting, there is a large age gap between Hades and Persephone which would usually bother me but it doesn’t in this series, maybe because they are gods and the concept of age is strange in their timeline, Persephone is 19 and hades is 2000+ but they stop aging after a while. The way their relationship is panning out (so far from what I’ve read) that he doesn’t ask anything of Persephone, although he likes her he keeps his distance and is focused on not ruining her life, on the flip side Persephone doesn’t feel she can be her own person, having to live up to everyone’s expectations and around hades she doesn’t feel the pressure everyone else puts on her. She also has her own agency in the story, she doesn’t want to be patronised by the people around her and people deciding her own fate for her
@irina-ty1336
6 ай бұрын
I really love that webtoon, and yes, there is a serious difference in experience between them, but Hades is very respectous. They became a couple, before Persephone finished to grow, but Hades reallt let her set the tone of their relationship, and he is really happy to take the role of support character to encourage Persephone to do whatever she wants, and do not set any expectation of her.
@LeggFamilychannel
6 ай бұрын
First ,i love your vids
@silverjohn6037
6 ай бұрын
The other consideration is, if there is an imbalance in power, why is the person with more power and privilege attracted to the person with less when they could chose from other higher status candidates who could be just as attractive in physical appearance. A modern analogy would be why would an Ivy League professor chose a truck stop waitress over the other teachers and students available at the school. This is where you divide the good writers who can explain the character of the protagonists from the "Mary Sue" wish fulfillment hacks who just say, "Well obviously he likes her because she's me... er my main character."
@christopherlyons5900
6 күн бұрын
Okay--so how about the most beloved and imitated romance novel of all? (Not that I believe Austen wrote it as one). Pride and Prejudice. Darcy is seven years older than Elizabeth--not a very large gap in terms of years, maybe pushing the limit a bit (some sources say eight years is where people start to raise eyebrows, like it's any of their business, but busybodies are no less prevalent today than in Austen's time). Both are clearly of marriageable age, able to make their own choices, within the limits of the society they live in. He is very wealthy, with a large estate, and though he does not have a title, it's pretty clear many in his family do. He is, in the context of the book, as eligible a bachelor as could possibly be found in Britain at that time, short of the Prince of Wales, whose marriage options are necessarily far more limited than Darcy's. Elizabeth's father is a member of the minor gentry who married 'beneath his station'. Her family are basically shabby genteel--just enough money to live a middle class lifestyle, and socialize with those at a higher level--while always being reminded this is purely a courtesy, and they are far beneath the true upper crust in rank, prestige, wealth. This adds spice to the proceedings, since normally a girl like Elizabeth would have no shot at someone like him. Therefore, if she gets him, that speaks to her superior personal qualities. Austen knew very well who her audience was, and while she had many things to say with that book besides who marries whom, she knew that the poor girl marries rich handsome fixer-upper would sell well then, as it does today, and probably will always. Darcy's only serious defect is his rather haughty brusque personality when in public, though his many servants all think well of him, since he's never rude to those dependent upon him, only to others of his own class. Elizabeth has an equally strong and sometimes judgmental personality; is extremely well-read--but so is Darcy, who doubtless had a better education than her, presumably Oxford or Cambridge. We may assume Elizabeth had a similar education to her creator, who spent 18 months at a boarding school for young women, and read voluminously. Darcy is in perfect health throughout the entire book. His relatives will, in many cases, never approve of her. One says she will be ostracized by 'polite' society forever if she marries Darcy, though it is likely some will come to appreciate her wit and self-possession over time. Since we see nothing of their married life, kind of a moot point. She really likes Pemberley, will take pleasure in tending to it. But her rights relating to her newfound wealth and position stem entirely from her husband. The only real advantage she has over him is that she is more at ease in social situations than he is ever likely to be. Oh, and she can sing and play the piano tolerably well. And I'd say they have about equally difficult relatives to deal with. Clearly there is a huge power imbalance. Darcy will presumably remember her in his will, but as mentioned, he's in excellent health. They are Protestants, so divorce is an option. Her rights in that instance will be very limited. Not that it would ever happen. In an Austen novel. If she has children, particularly sons, that will give her more of an edge. If Darcy cops some title or other, then she will have one by marriage. It really does seem like a gap relationship to me. But nobody ever calls it one. Because this is the most beloved and influential romance novel of all time. Even though it's really a comedy of manners with a few romances in it.
@steakismeat177
2 ай бұрын
Can you do the reverse hypothetical? an older woman and a younger man. Also I haven’t read the book but what you described sounds less like equals and more like the power imbalance flips. He is disabled and depends on her for his daily functioning meanwhile she doesn’t need him. True they live in a patriarchal society, but that hardly matters. All that says is the general and broad circumstances that tend to be allowed in the society. It doesn’t involve male solidarity. He might be able to find someone else to care for him, he may not. Even if she does leave him, he would probably rely on her good graces to find him someone to replace her.
@TheMoodyfire
5 ай бұрын
interesting explanation! still hate age gap romances though 😊
@ITSSILVERO
6 ай бұрын
I wanted to suggest a book series called path of the ranger by pedro urvi, if you could make a video about that would be awesome. Not a lot of people know about this series and the book deserves a lot more support than it gets
@alex_blue5802
6 ай бұрын
She was clearly uncomfortable with him as a provider, and accepted him when she felt they could both depend on each other. It's very clearly spelled out in the ending of the book, but i feel like a lot of people miss that because it's harder to show in a movie.
@cmm5542
5 ай бұрын
Actually Jane had already accepted him when she was still without fortune in the beginning of the book? I feel like no one understands what the book was addressing when it was first written. The fact that you could not legally divorce an insane spouse and remarry was seen as a HUGE problem at the time. Thanks to the horrific state of mental heath 'asylums', it was seen as problematic to sever ties with a spouse who needed care. But obviously it was no marriage, so why couldn't someone marry someone else and STILL see to it their first insane spouse was cared for at home? THIS is the central social problem Bronte was addressing in the novel, not 'inequality' of circumstances. She heavily emphasises that Jane is Rochester's equal and their circumstances are irrelevant - remember this was a classist society and forward-thinking people like the Brontes were keen to prove that being socially 'inferior' did not actually make you inferior as a PERSON. This was key in getting the vote for the lower classes, which most people don't realise was also part of the suffragist movement. Arguing that Jane needed to be on Rochester's 'level' in terms of power circumstances, would have been an argument AGAINST giving equal rights to people in less powerful circumstances, which is the exact opposite of what the Brontes believed.
@Starburst514
5 ай бұрын
I think also too is the "adult" in consenting adults. SO many FMCs are 18-23 while the love interest is like 50. You can still have the power imbalance issue and have it be fixed, but I think too power imbalances look different outside of the overly huge age gap If FMC is say 27 while her love interest is 40-50ish for example, that's still a notable age gap, but she's old enough to have more experience in life, and possibly other options for employment, romance, etc. still young and inexperienced to him, but it doesn't feel like a little girl fresh out in life being taken in by the first older man she meets Granted I know some of the appeal of age gap is because she (usually she) is young, and coquette and inexperienced in life, and finding herself....buuuut personally I think you can still have that with an older adult (just cause I was in a situation where I felt pretty stunted until I was 27, but I wasn't totally new to life like I was when I was 20)
@ForeverMe217
3 ай бұрын
Usually I’m fine with age gap but I was listening to this book where the couple was 34 and 18. I was flabbergasted and when they found out she was 18 they said: “At least she’s legal.” 😭
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
I don't mind 18 unless they are still in school. If they are living and working in the REAL ADULT WORLD, date whoever you want. But going after a schoolgirl of ANY age is sick in my opinion (former teacher here).
@moonstarlight3940
5 ай бұрын
Ok but let's be real. The other love interest was her cousin!! 😂😂😂
@AnnaCMeyer
5 ай бұрын
Another age gap that works, at least for me, is Colonel Brandon and Marianne Dashwood in Austen's Sense & Sensibility, despite some of the "father figure" overtones early on and his comparison of her to his late sister-in-law, whose daughter, like Marianne, was also a victim of Mr. Willoughby's hebephilic and predatory tendencies.
@AnnaCMeyer
5 ай бұрын
I think the relationship between Marianne and the Colonel works because, in some degree, his emotional development was paused when he lost his first love to his brother and was sent to a military career with the East India Company whilst he was still in his teens.
@suburbohemian
5 ай бұрын
I think it's icky to get with someone who kept his wife locked in the attic, period.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
She was a violent psychotic. What was he supposed to do, let her kill everyone in the house in one of her fits?
@FooFoo_CuddlyPoops
5 ай бұрын
I would say it depends on genre, too. Fiction is fiction, and Romances (which fulfill fantasies and are not beholden to the same rules as reality) can use age as metaphorical shorthand for sophistication, maturity, knowledge/wisdom, and a certain degree of power; and this fulfills our psychological need to be desired by someone who exhibits those traits. Whereas contemporary novels aiming more for Realism should probably address it. Granted, this is probably an oversimplified take stemming from Contrapoints’ video essay about Twilight. Good points about the dynamics here!
@MotherOfNightMarez
4 ай бұрын
My biggest issue with Age Gap tropes is when the older one not only knew the younger one as a child but was also involved in the younger ones childhood in some way, shape, or form. Even if it was just briefly. Or in romance fantasy when you have an immortal or long lived character watch the love interest grow up and then makes their move on or shortly after whatever birthday makes them technically legally of consenting age. It's just so creepy and gross. Like I love a good age gap love story, but they too often come off as grooming and super creepy.
@roterfrosch5808
6 ай бұрын
Thanks! Any other recommendations? So many romances have a power/experience/whatever gap.
@christopherlyons5900
6 ай бұрын
No less icky if it's a rich older woman and a poorer younger man. But somehow, nobody ever complains about that. They just say the guy's a gigolo, but good for the old gal getting herself a boy toy. So really, it is about patriarchy, but patriarchy doesn't benefit all men equally. Many if not most would be better off in a more egalitarian gender-balanced society, and much of the real issue isn't age, but class. People only complain about the privileges of others--never their own. But it's an interesting analysis--Bronte clearly was thinking about how to fix the problem, meaning she recognized it as such, but she still wanted Rochester to be older. Meaning she found older more experienced men sexier, and the age gap to her was romantic--as it is to many women today. And in nature--older individuals within a given species, male or female, may have an easier time finding mates, because they've proven their genetic fitness by surviving so long. It's hard to fully size up a younger individual's potential. Youth has its attractions as well, but it doesn't last very long, does it? It really is up to individual choice, and two very compatible people may be of very different ages. I can understand being fed up with popular entertainments where the male lead is so often played by someone much older than the female lead--but that's because at the present time, male stars tend to remain stars longer, sell more tickets than actresses of a comparable age. That was not always the case, and in 1940's Hollywood, a Joan Crawford or Bette Davis would often be paired with a younger male lead. Because they delivered reliable box office. So really, we create the inequity ourselves, in that case. We're the ones who are icky. ;)
@johannageisel5390
6 ай бұрын
My personal theory is that Charlotte had massive daddy issues. The father of the three sisters was reportedly very strict. And before she penned "Jane Eyre", she wrote a novel called "The Professor", that was based on her own unrequited love for an older professor.
@christopherlyons5900
6 ай бұрын
@@johannageisel5390 As one Elisabeth Wheatley said to another in a different video, "Who DOESN'T have daddy issues?" It doesn't automatically mean you prefer older men (or women, in the case of mommy issues). There are a lot of advantages to older men--they often have more money, for one thing. They may have worked out more of their issues. And if children are an issue, long as the gap isn't too big, they can get the job done. FYI, I'm in a very long-term relationship with an older woman. Almost seven years older. I never had much luck connecting to my generation. That can be a problem for many. Most of the women I had serious attractions to were older, and it certainly wasn't because I didn't find women my age (or younger) attractive. But yes, it could be Bronte had those issues, but since she needed him to have a previous wife who'd gone mad, and had been locked up for years, he really couldn't be Jane's age, could he? She's writing a Gothic romance, and those are necessarily dark twisted and spooky. In a book like that, if nothing's wrong, everything's wrong. Du Maurier's Rebecca is along similar lines, and she chooses similar solutions to the age gap--her unnamed heroine has been very isolated, lonely, alienated, no family connections. She meets this charming if odd older man of means, who finds her utterly charming, wants to marry her almost immediately, and she falls in love with him. Why would she say no? Why should she care about the opinions of people who never gave a damn about her? The wife is dead, but haunting Manderley like a ghost, even though it's not a supernatural story. And I won't spoil it, since it's not as well-known as Bronte's book (great British miniseries starring Jeremy Brett, btw). It would not work for Maxim to be the same age as--um--whatever her name is. He has to be older, more experienced, and have skeletons in his closet. Pretty serious ones. But she's a romance heroine, and a Gothic romance heroine, and as God is her witness, she'll never be lonely again. She'll fight a ghost if she has to. And at the end, the inequities between them are gone, in a way quite reminiscent of Jane Eyre, and obviously that's no coincidence. Basically, what Du Maurier did was solve the real issue of Jane Eyre, which is why is Jane going to marry a man who locked his wife in the attic? Now if his wife was a stone cold beyotch, and he--um--never mind. I really think Elisabeth has done a great job pointing out that romance fiction in general does not depict ideal relationships--to say the very least. Because they're BORING. So the idea is not to present a norm, something to aspire to in real life, anymore than you read Lord of the Rings and think, "Hey, I should into a cave where there's this REALLY big spider!" An age gap creates potential conflicts, misunderstandings, and generational contrast. And since age gap relationships have always been common, and always will be, there's no plausibility gap. Btw--you seen the new Anne Hathaway romcom? Only problem I have is that skinny doofus is clearly unworthy of her. Cast a younger man with some testosterone, please. A personality would be good too. And let's not get started on the most popular romcom in years, which jokes about the almost ten year age gap between the stars. Yeah, doesn't seem like anyone thinks Glen Powell dating Sydney Sweeney is icky--even though they're not really dating. I don't think.
@claytonwheatley8773
6 ай бұрын
Love this video! Very true
@nevskislake
5 ай бұрын
Me as a Gen X person wondering why younger folks are obsessed with age gaps; it seems oddly puritanical and ageist. There is a 13-year age gap between me and my husband, and we just celebrated twenty years of marriage together. I was the one who pursued him. We were both consenting adults when we started dating, and we built a friendship first before we became lovers, which might be why our marriage has held strong. I get when there is a power dynamic at work-student/teacher, boss/employee, etc., but otherwise who cares? And for everyone in the comments section saying that older people are more mature than younger people, have you been on social media? That is so not true. The folks I can't stand on social media, most of the time, are my age or older because they revel in being apathetic and immature. Meanwhile, I have met tweens with more maturity and empathy than the boomers in my family. Wisdom and maturity does not always come with age; meanwhile, there are some amazing young people out there just being awesome human beings and helping others.
@cmm5542
Ай бұрын
I COMPLETELY agree. 'Puritanical and ageist' is EXACTLY what it is!
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