JP is not at all looking to "destroy" anyone here, he is after clarifying and the truth of the issue.
@user-dy5ho4sj2w
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, FR. Whoever’s watching this clip needs to watch the full interview, taking the very end of the conversation without explaining the context of how they established things to go from the beginning is messed up.
@1stSonOfJames
Жыл бұрын
It’s just a clickbait title. We know Dr. Peterson is about clarity.
@user-dy5ho4sj2w
Жыл бұрын
@@1stSonOfJames 😎 you are cool, my friend. Awesome that Dr. Peterson has such a positive reputation he is even defended in the comment section on KZitem. I assume you have a very clean room, my friend. 🤜🤛
@zinodavidoff5665
Жыл бұрын
@John yeah by showing them truth and logic
@zinodavidoff5665
Жыл бұрын
@@user-dy5ho4sj2w When you watch petersons FULL debates for YEARS, youll understand.
@CalmDownJack
Жыл бұрын
"An anorexic believes they aren't thin enough. Does that mean they're not thin enough?" that is a good way to say it
@RobertMJohnson
Жыл бұрын
we all know what he meant even tho he stated it incorrectly
@jeninlight
Жыл бұрын
@@RobertMJohnson do enlighten, you claim to know what other people are thinking and therefore claim to know their intentions, regardless of their words?
@sonar245
Жыл бұрын
@@RobertMJohnson what did he mean?
@RobertMJohnson
Жыл бұрын
@@sonar245 he simply mispoke re: anorexia. he meant to say, "anorexics don't think they are thin enough whilst we know they are TOO THIN." it's pretty fucking simple.
@sonar245
Жыл бұрын
@@RobertMJohnson I think we all know what he meant. Which is why you where the only doofus who felt the need to point out the obvious. Thank you for playing though.🦭
@jameslarge434
Жыл бұрын
I have dealt with anorexia and gender dysphoria and 100% agree with Jordan on this and I'm glad he drew that comparison. They both came from the same place mentally for me, self dillusion and lack of control is what I would call it's cause and social media, and people showing off their transitions (or weight loss) made both of those issues so much worse for me. Thanks Jordan
@Sneedboy
Жыл бұрын
You dealt with dysphoria? You appear to be a man. If it’s not prying, might I ask what stopped you?
@DocsChannel
Жыл бұрын
I am so sorry you dealt with dysphoria. I do think that it is dangerous for us to make a blanket statements calling a Doc CRIMINAL. I think we should look into these situations individually. 2nd or maybe 3rd opinions could be required with 60-90 days between each opinion maybe. Jordan was 60% right. He did however UNFAIRLY make a blanket statement about whether or not gender reassignment is ethical. Extremely rare for Jordan to go too far but I can't be honest with how much I value and respect him without calling him out when I see he is in the wrong. That being said I hope you are doing better James and if you can't find the help and support you need reach out.
@jameslarge434
Жыл бұрын
@@DocsChannel Thanks for the comment, I agree we should be careful around this sort of thing, and I am for the most part no longer dealing with dysphoria or my eating disorder thankfully.
@nuuro-cg8gx
Жыл бұрын
Not dysphoria
@yarriddevogelaere2005
Жыл бұрын
The guy in the middle is me when a friend and his girlfriend are having a political discussion while we're out having a drink. That close-up was comedic gold.
@kirstone1512
Жыл бұрын
Nobody destroyed anyone this was a brilliant discussion
@words007
Жыл бұрын
JP is not destroying anybody he is only imparting wisdom. Most of the liberal ideas are always on my mind even the things that lookalike trans issues or anything psychological issue. I love them thought exercises 😤. Logical THROUGH & THROUGH
@johneastwood3039
Жыл бұрын
A brilliant discussion? People arguing what a woman is. The world has gone insane.
@zackmac5917
Жыл бұрын
It's not a brilliant discussion - it is a respectful discussion. JP imparted some much-needed wisdom to this man who is confused. This man is seemingly willing to concede to JP's points. Which is important. Many others are not willing to concede to anything opposing their core ideas. Ultimately, while it got heated and they are both passionate, they both remained gentlemen.
@taylorhickman84
Жыл бұрын
but "destroyed" in the title gets all the JP fanbois on the bandwagon.
@jim10101010101
Жыл бұрын
@@zackmac5917 quite the sapient skirmish. There was intensity, ferosity, and a potent willingness to absorb one anothers points, if only to gain greater understanding to fuel a rebuttal. It's like we just watched a visual representation of 2 minds rolling on a mat, using only words.
@jaypage4737
Жыл бұрын
Watching a hard conversation like this when two people aren't so much trying to be right about what it is they think they know but actually trying to find a solution and answers to the given problem and showing respect at the same time is like watching Bigfoot ride across the road on the back of a unicorn. Well done, gentlemen. THIS is how you have a conversation.
@machinegun_noise
Жыл бұрын
Thought I was the only one that used “Bigfoot riding a unicorn.”
@hockedad3585
Жыл бұрын
@@machinegun_noise well its not like a unicorn could ride a bigfoot ....cmon man
@mattrix4200
Жыл бұрын
What impressed me about this clip is how BOTH men actually CONCEDE certain points in the interest of finding a common solution. They may walk away with different value & statistical based beliefs, but BOTH men wanted nothing more than finding a solution without trying to over-simplify and strawman the other. THANK YOU!!!
@rustar00
Жыл бұрын
I couldn’t have said it better myself, and that’s the highest praise I can give.
@gammasmash1924
Жыл бұрын
I always get the same vibe when watching Glenn Loury and John McWhorter talk. You can practically see their ideas evolving as the conversation continues.
@hh8302k
Жыл бұрын
I'm so happy that JP is able to call someone he disagrees with his friend. I am so tired of polarization.
@daniellee9951
Жыл бұрын
Glad to see others recognising this as a great discussion not a case of one perspective destroying another. We need more of this.
@Milestonemonger
Жыл бұрын
"We are surgically transforming children we're not allowed to talk to" - JBP
@mariussmall-smith4401
Жыл бұрын
No destruction. 2 Mature men discussing this topic brilliantly. Well done to you both.
@michaeljustinsantos
Жыл бұрын
Pageau's face at 3:35 is all of us watching this clip from home hahaha
@ninjason57
Жыл бұрын
Hahaha so on point
@SteelyDanimal
Жыл бұрын
Great conversation that never went off the rails. A sign of respect and intelligence.
@juancpgo
Жыл бұрын
because they both believe in reason.. the sad thing is that there's an extremist wave now that doesn't believe in reason nor anything except imposing what they feel is right
@hunters3895
Жыл бұрын
What a phenomenal conversation. This is really one of the few times I have seen anybody both articulate their points and listen to what Peterson is actually saying without prematurely vilifying him. This is how discourse should be and the only way to make headway on the important issues of our time.
@thegulagarchipelago5921
Жыл бұрын
Not the 1st time. Have a look at Jordan Peterson and Susan Blackmore on Genes and Memes. She listened without judging and it was a Mind Blowing conversation.
@Marina-sp6hz
Жыл бұрын
@@thegulagarchipelago5921 Definitely not the first or last time. These comments just want likes. But yeah, it was a nice conversation.
@christopherstewart2185
Жыл бұрын
People vilify people who think for themselves most of the time. Most people prefer thinking with the herd.
@reniefuwa
Жыл бұрын
@@Marina-sp6hz the comment just said it was the first time *they* had seen it.
@Marina-sp6hz
Жыл бұрын
@@reniefuwa Thanks Irene
@cinedd4783
Жыл бұрын
As a former, ne' current anorexic. I completely see JP's explanation. I no longer look like a skeleton, yet when I think of myself, I still feel like a fat pig. My younger half brother from my father's second marriage is currently identifying as a female or non-binary, not sure which. When he stopped by a couple of Christmas' ago (with his girlfriend) he was also a vegan. His age at his time of "transition" and my age at the time of anorexia (and also being a vegan) were mirrored. My personal belief is that everyone goes through a transitional time in their young adult lives. Some choose to tow the line, others to swim against the current. I personally believe that there is an insidious undercurrent to bring lost or searching souls to the dark side. Not meant to be funny or referring to anyone or anything, just that if you're unsure, don't...DO NOT GO ALL IN!!!!!
@megumi_0
Жыл бұрын
It looks like you got all your father's wisdom genes.
@mikehunt.1609
Жыл бұрын
So true about insidious people trying to destroy the lost souls in our society. They used to do it with drugs, trying to make drugs look hip and trendy and offer them to people who felt out on the periphery.
@kolbeanderson212
Жыл бұрын
Well said
@peteratkinson922
Жыл бұрын
Spread the story of your experience
@madaxe606
Жыл бұрын
Anorexia and gender dysphoria are essentially the same thing, inasmuch as they’re about self-perception that is untethered from reality. Take any gender ideologue and swap out all the trans references for anorexic advocacy - claiming that people suffering from anorexia and starving themselves are ‘living their best, true lives’ and demanding that we all celebrate and affirm their actions, no matter how self-destructive. They would sound like utter sociopaths. But because they’ve cloaked their advocacy in compassion and inclusiveness, they get a pass. Madness.
@michaelmorrissey1052
Жыл бұрын
Great conversation, but nobody was “Destroyed”.
@bsb1975
Жыл бұрын
It impresses me when two people can argue passionately about a subject, one than they both truly care about, and not get pissed off at each other. Something I need to work on.
@Johnphilips1234
Жыл бұрын
Please do your best to work on it - I say this as it's crucial for the future of healthy discourse that people can put their egos and pride aside and approach conversations not to assert their dominance or that they are right but rather to try and find a solution to the problem.
@FiatMihiSecundumVerbum
Жыл бұрын
"If in finding your true identity you violate a cultural norm that's so profound that you destabilize the entire country, the entire culture, then maybe you don't have the right to do that, even if it actualizes yourself." Wisdom for all.
@marioeid930
Жыл бұрын
I agree to an extent, i dont think the act itself destabilizes the culture more so its the media behind it and how its glamorized, its not glamorus if it was told more factually people would see it for what it is
@cognitivestate9512
Жыл бұрын
@@marioeid930 the point is that it creates a domino affect and then everyone has to be castrated in the name of self-actualization. What is self actualization? I've heard of it, but never thought about it. Sounds like a narcissistic term to me. Who ever stays the same "self", anyway? Life is complicated enough already, with terms like "finding your self", good luck. There is no concrete thing called a self. The harder you try to actualize it, the further it slips away.
@cognitivestate9512
Жыл бұрын
@@marioeid930 but rereading your comment, I see what you meant and I agree. I misread you. Sorry for assuming you missed the point.
@ynzevelema1858
Жыл бұрын
That is not wisdom, that is the typical christian argument that deems the norm as the opposite of progressive degeneracy. The problem with this argument is that progressivism is not degeneracy. Peterson would certainly not denounce the accomplishments of feminism, even though feminism has radically changed our culture. The idea that somehow our culture falls apart from people having the choice to transition and not feel bad about it, is a falsehood
@SantiagoNinoTV
Жыл бұрын
I do not agree with this, and im shocked Peterson would say something like this, is like saying ''killing the Individual self development for the sake of the collective? Thats horrible, and its more horrible coming from Jordan who stands with West values such as ''The individual is Primal''
@davidjohnbonnett
Жыл бұрын
This whole conversation is actually one of my favourites. Seeing JP challenged by one his friends/advisors in order to keep him grounded, is fascinating to watch. He has a great team around him.
@samphyllobates4765
Жыл бұрын
I might subscribe to the daily wire just for that…conversation, contradiction from your base , friend colleague is the best thing that can happen to him and his « followers ».
@jverbois
Жыл бұрын
I loved this episode of his podcast. I think Peterson knew those tweets he made were a misstep, and he's learning that Twitter isn't a good place for his platform(or any, for that matter).
@bigguy7353
Жыл бұрын
That wasn't a challenge in any sense of the word.
@davidjohnbonnett
Жыл бұрын
@@bigguy7353 ok then I'll rephrase, 'seeing a friend take up a position of disagreement, rather than just being a nodding Yes Man.' Will that do for ya? 🤔
@Jackjohnjay
Жыл бұрын
Let’s make this easy: face tattoos and all over body implants are also criminal. Not legally but ethically to the integrity and dignity of the body
@joelpenley9791
Жыл бұрын
“An anorexic who thinks they are not thin enough, are they really not thin enough”? The guy didn’t answer this question and it truly is a crucial question.
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
Yep. He has a tendency to just move on, instead of sitting for a moment, and thinking... This guy operates on emotions and you could tell when he said he wouldn't have Dave Chapelle over because of his trans family member
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
That should have been his epiphany moment.
@twmwalters
Жыл бұрын
@@roberjohnsmith "i would NEVER HESITATE to have dave chapelle at my house" = he wouldn't
@AyayronBalakay
Жыл бұрын
his anorexia example is so good
@TheHigherVoltage
Жыл бұрын
How? How does it justify calling a doctor who performed elective surgery on a 35 year old woman 'criminal'?
@MrTchupam
Жыл бұрын
Yup… its facts… women act like mob. This agendas take advantage of that. Women ate the sheeple of this century
@petedeards
Жыл бұрын
@@TheHigherVoltage it’s a good example of how complicated the “trans” logic really is when critical thought is applied
@TheHigherVoltage
Жыл бұрын
@@petedeards The question was about Peterson's tweet...specifically the claim that the doctor was criminal. The case being referred to was about an adult going through an elective surgery. There's no valid comparison, or logic, or critical thinking to be seen here. Peterson is just dodging the question by gaslighting.
@iamthe80s49
Жыл бұрын
@@TheHigherVoltage No, you've just missed the point.
@DMDvideo10
Жыл бұрын
Guy in the middle to himself "damn I should have studied harder in school"...
@robcarney7597
Жыл бұрын
Have we officially ruined “destroy” yet, or should we keep going?
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
The left says not enough, the left says we need more.
@kevinlakeman5043
Жыл бұрын
A bit like 'hilarious'. In a sense, that's lost its general meaning.
@orlandomendes3616
Жыл бұрын
I didn't see him destroying, I saw him teaching a class.
@manunava1776
Жыл бұрын
A good old-fashioned debate. Only things missing were a bottle of scotch & cigars!
@SamirMishra6174
Жыл бұрын
Man very well said
@DustinRWallington
Жыл бұрын
This is how gentleman and professionals communicate. Listen up and take notes! Notice how easily one is okay to acknowledge that they don’t know something. No ego just getting to the bottom of a topic at hand
@jackfiercetree5205
Жыл бұрын
I agree, and also the guy on the gender theory side sounds stupid Right Away, because the idea he has forced himself to defend is a BaD iDeA!
@zackmac5917
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. It's somewhat heated and there is passion, but it is ruled and guided by gentlemanly respect.
@ZIgnorantProdigy
Жыл бұрын
@@zackmac5917 and then ruined by the clickbaity title of DESTROYS....seemed awfully respectful and two sided
@zackmac5917
Жыл бұрын
@@ZIgnorantProdigy Agreed. It's a shame they feel the need to use this sort of title. This is a great example of how to debate and converse. It needs to be spread far and wide with a truthful title.
@myhatmygandhi6217
Жыл бұрын
Why does everyone make this exact comment during debates? Differing versions of this sentiment are made in almost every debate video. Are there really that many people new to these sorts of video?
@stevendraper9344
Жыл бұрын
If only the 'friend' on the right wouldn't interrupt and talk over Jordan so much
@viiofwands3076
Жыл бұрын
You can tell there is mutual respect here despite the disagreements. I wish more people were like this.
@aphrodite0369
Жыл бұрын
Raw insightful conversation. Appreciate Jordan Peterson thank you.
@DonnieDio
Жыл бұрын
I'd be interested to hear what exactly this guy means when he says someone can be "born in the wrong body". If a guy is short and ugly but he feels like he should be tall and handsome (which basically every short/ugly guy will feel) does that mean he was born in the wrong body? No, it means he feels unhappy with his body, but its still HIS body.
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. When there is salt in the pot and all the water boils down, we see what's left over. Once we strip away all the claims and actually look at what's there, is YOUR body. It's just body dismorphia. Plain and simple. Plus, honestly with all the chemicals inside our food and our air. All the artificial hormones in fluoride and all the rest of it, I think a lot of this stuff is being accelerated by an imbalance of hormones. That's just a hypothesis I have. I am bald, and I have brown eyes. Maybe I was born in the wrong body. And now taxpayer's must pay for my surgery and for me to get blue eye implants, etc.... there is no line when you go down this road. It's a cliff at the end, we must turn back.
@Margatatials
Жыл бұрын
yep the anorexic hates her body but that doesn't mean she should be allowed to destroy it.
@consmiller
Жыл бұрын
What a great conversation. Exactly what conversations should be like. Bravo
@holyshades6462
Жыл бұрын
This conversation hit's close to home because I know 3 young woman (one being my cousin) personally who all identify as trans who have either started or want to start transitioning. It's heartbreaking to watch.
@maryrankin9869
Жыл бұрын
Would love to know the ROOT CAUSE!
@RAIRADIO
Жыл бұрын
Its like getting into a lifetime of debt, cz its a financial decision.
@yashpatel2817
Жыл бұрын
That dude constantly interrupting is destroying my patience
@IISCAFFII
Жыл бұрын
Most people who decide to transition are either attention seeking, or have serious mental health issues, or both. Its not "hateful" to mention this, its truth.
@MichaelJames-lz7ni
Жыл бұрын
So you're a psychologist now? Or did your pastor put that idea into your head?
@IISCAFFII
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelJames-lz7ni - my Imam did. Why? Do you have a problem with my faith?
@MichaelJames-lz7ni
Жыл бұрын
@@IISCAFFII Absolutely - your Imam is not an advocate for open-mindedness, freedom, or Science.
@peter_phamous
Жыл бұрын
This was a very good discussion. Jordan is at his best when he has this type of intellectual push back
@justinlong5892
Жыл бұрын
I love how Jordan is getting so worn out by all this that he's starting to show his frustration with people intentionally missing his point. He almost face palmed at the beginning, lol.
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
He literally did face palm half way through. A heavy face palm
@Orion227
Жыл бұрын
A clinical psychologist would be more aware of the mindset and damage done than anyone else.
@rabidL3M0NS
Жыл бұрын
😂 I love how Johnathan is just sitting there between the two like 😐😬
@greuju
Жыл бұрын
I grew up as a feminine boy who thought he might be gay. I can't imagine the turmoil I would've went thru if sex changes were normalized in children then.
@fanchospuchos6277
Жыл бұрын
If he truly believes that transgenderism is a psychological illness, I think it's wrong to criticize the patient. The first step is to listen to them. If people keep emphasizing the "Biological difference" and refuse to call them what they identify as, isn't it natural that they feel the only way is to alter their bodies? Such a hypocrite.
@worsethanjoerogan8061
Жыл бұрын
People develop all kinds of delusions. Some people think they are dead and ask to be buried. Some people think they are made of glass and worry they will shatter if the strike a hard object. Some people think they are Jesus and demand worship. Can anybody explain why believing you are a sex that you are not is different from any other delusion?
@billypoppins9138
Жыл бұрын
Trauma
@Adrian-yi8fl
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. There are people who obsess about amputating their limbs. So if you want to amputate your leg you are rightfully considered mentally ill. But suddenly if you want to amputate your penis it's a great idea and the doctors will help you! Smh.
@DeadEndFrog
Жыл бұрын
Well some delusions are accepted, such as religion, and Peterson accepted those too. Can someone tell me the diffrence?
@Adrian-yi8fl
Жыл бұрын
@@DeadEndFrog do you really need someone to tell you the difference between believing in God and chopping your d!k off?
@MissRegionRat
Жыл бұрын
@@DeadEndFrog religion is a complex system of metaphysical belief and moral law, usually thousands of years old and handed down from Generation to generation alongside and part of the inheritance of culture. Delusion in this comment’s example is believing you are something you’re not. The anorexia example is not a JP original, but it’s a good one. It’s an individual believing they are something they objectively are not. It’s a psychological problem. That’s why gender dysphoria is in the DSM but not religious belief.
@jarcau_vegan
Жыл бұрын
🍀🙏🏻 Jordan does not destroy his friend. Both his friend and Jordan exchange great arguments while carefully listening to one another. Well, maybe. Who knows.
@mariaocleirigh6984
Жыл бұрын
No destruction here, just a great discussion.
@CiviTac
Жыл бұрын
This isn’t destroying anyone. It’s just super healthy debate between 2 men looking for truth and a solution
@Adrian-yi8fl
Жыл бұрын
This whole "you didn't speak out about these other 10 things therefore you're not allowed to speak out about this one thing" argument is vapid as f.
@igloozoo3771
Жыл бұрын
I am turning 50yo today and suffered from Gender Dysphoria, but I am still glad I grew up in a generation that didn't label me as "TRANS" but learned to love myself without Pharma Drugs or Plastic Surgery. I feel bad for kids today that they are told they are helpless and their depression will lead to suicide unless they get on puberty blockers and change their appearance. I am also South Korean and disgusted with the normalization of Plastic Surgery in South Korea. It isn't mere irony that Bruce/Kaitlyn belonged to the family who normalized Plastic Surgery in America. Jordan Peterson knew that he was going to get the backlash because well he is criticizing a very fragile little girl...wait Elliot is now a Straight White Male....the criticism is fair game especially when this same person has yet to apologize for his support for Jussie Smollett. Lets face the fact. Elliott Page decided to become an Activist. Activists requires critique from Public. Elliot cannot go on bashing Chris Pratt for no reason and then claim victimhood/transphobia when Elliot becomes the target for criticism. Equal Rights? Equal criticism.
@lj5190
Жыл бұрын
What does gender dysphoria feel like?
@jonnaking3054
Жыл бұрын
Well, I'm a 40 year old trans woman and my gender dysphoria is making my life horrible. If I could go back in time I'd get those puberty blockers any way I could, even if I had to go behind my father's back. I'm not suicidal but I do self harm pretty weekly, by slapping and clawing at my face as a way to punish it for going through a male puberty... Since it is my face that usually clues ppl in that "that's a man" I don't see the virtue in just learning to love whatever nature gives you and why it's bad to make changes to your body. That's a classic appeal to nature fallacy And "equal rights, equal criticism" God I hate when ppl say that! As if trans PPL START OUT on equal footing as cis ppl. Do you think Elliot suddenly acquires cis male privilege now?
@jonnaking3054
Жыл бұрын
@@lj5190 for me, I dread getting out of bed, cuz I know it just gonna be another day of the same ol "sir this, sir that", torment, anger, sadness, regret, rage, vengefulness, feeling like I'm not living but merely existing, feeling like I was screwed out of earlier life phases. It's hell basically. And why are you calling her Bruce/Caitlin? Her name is literally LEGALLY Caitlin now. "Equal rights equal criticism" God I hate when ppl say that! Yeah because trans ppl totally start out on EQUAL FOOTING as cis ppl. Do you think Elliot just suddenly gets cis male privilege because he transitioned? I'm a trans woman, so if I jump up in a man's face a mouth off to him, do you think I'm not gonna get knocked the F out because I'm declared myself a woman?
@lj5190
Жыл бұрын
@@jonnaking3054 But what specifically makes you want to be a woman versus the man you were born as? For example, I’m a biological male. I don’t “feel like a man”, I just feel like me. Does that make sense?
@igloozoo3771
Жыл бұрын
@@jonnaking3054 - I am confused as to why Equal rights equal criticism is considered offensive. That should be what every individual should be striving for? You want equal rights but still want to remain a forever victim?
@SVisionary
Жыл бұрын
JP has learned to temper his anger while staying on point and discussing rationally. Respect. He's improved.
@smokesreefer9417
Жыл бұрын
KZitem always goes to commercials in this type of conversation 🤬🤬🤬
@wallyhiggens5369
Жыл бұрын
I think his friend is probably to busy being cool with his 'trans godson' Disgusting.
@davewade30
Жыл бұрын
I must've missed the part where he "destroyed" him. Sounded like a pretty reasonable conversation to me.
@listerfeend2004
Жыл бұрын
"Destroyed" is an easy click bait thing to put in a title, I guess.
@bigguy7353
Жыл бұрын
He philosophically destroyed his BS rhetoric.
@forsakenquery
Жыл бұрын
This was a legit destroy. Guy tried an appeal to emotion and got philosophically bodied. Props to him for listening and debating properly.
@DkKombo
Жыл бұрын
@@forsakenquery He explored issues he was concerned about it. In that case, if he was destroyed, then peterson got pretty challenged too. Peterson respected the conversation and his topic and so did he.
@forsakenquery
Жыл бұрын
@@DkKombo agreed. But Peterson got the better of the exchange and the other guy's arguments were nonsense.
@msykes19
Жыл бұрын
When your entire argument revolves around opinions, and you never integrate a single fact, you will be forced into a corner that only speaks in anecdotes. The major problem of toxic compassion. So many more will suffer for the sake of the narcissist.
@bobdpa
Жыл бұрын
A great demonstration of how conversations need to be had.
@blackie75
Жыл бұрын
It's great that he chooses to go after the trans problem, because he's one of the only people in the public eye that is credentialed enough to have an informed and relevant opinion on the subject, and certainly one of the only people with the courage to do so. Most reasonable people with a half a brain are thinking along the lines of his critiques and questions, but are too worried about being ruined or cancelled for doing so.
@DaveRossignol
Жыл бұрын
JP courts controversy. I don’t think he is brave. He is provocative and enjoys it. This is what has made him a hero to many and very rich I might add. Others who are just as credentialed as he is don’t hold his views. I’d say that his views are more aligned to biblical constructs, i.e. God rebukes gays. To me I think it’s polite and respectful to refer to anyone as they’d like to be referred to. JP likes to be called a Doctor. If a friend wants to be called “deuce”, I oblige.
@saltedllama2759
Жыл бұрын
@@DaveRossignol Nothing you said was correct. He is stressed to the max by controversy, but resigned himself to doing so or else his right to speech would have been taken away entirely. That's where his "fame" began. And if you're talking about getting wealthy from something, it isn't straying too far from the topic of this discussion to say that surgeons are "recommending" that children get these procedures because they are very expensive and will become lifelong patients.
@James-qu6ul
Жыл бұрын
@@DaveRossignol You're comparing referring to someone as a doctor, WHO IS a doctor, and who studied to be a doctor, and practiced as one for years, to the forced use of pronouns? Seriously? Also, I am pretty sure JP, would be fine with someone simply calling him JP.
@jonnaking3054
Жыл бұрын
@@saltedllama2759 I'm transgender, and I get misgendered and treated like crap pretty much on a daily basis, and I just don't see this "pitchfork-toating transgender mob" going after people to destroy their lives for misgendering and take over society. If anything I feel like I have to keep my mouth shut or at the most I might WHISPER a correction like "it's she" under my breath and just HOPE I won't start a huge conflict. So, yeah, no one's ever been fired, jailed, taken to court, nor had their lives ruined by calling me a man nor by misgendering me. However I HAVE been fired for being trans, so yeah just not seeing it
@jonnaking3054
Жыл бұрын
@@James-qu6ul Trust me, if someone referred to JP by "she/her" pronouns he would complain... like most ALL cis people do when they get misgendered... most people do not like their identities being mistaken, it's not just a trans thing. Also I'm a trans woman and my pronouns are she/her, but people refer to me by he/him pronouns LOUDLY and PROUDLY on a daily basis, and I don't feel like I can even SPEAK UP for fear of, oh, getting fired from my job or to a less extent just causing a huge controversy... SO yeah I don't really see the whole "forced pronoun" thing that JP is MORALLY PANICKING about
@MaxHanson-kz7fl
Жыл бұрын
Dude in the middle: 👁 👁 🫦
@JoiskiMe
Жыл бұрын
The point about the danger of crushing the ideal is so solid. We all know what the ideal is. Men are men, women are women - and they compliment each other biologically and socially. That's human flourishing. Having an ideal is also inherently discriminatory, because it excludes by virtue of selecting something over something else.
@bobjames1992
Жыл бұрын
This guy is under the impression that JP hasn't actually thought very hard about these things.
@luisvazquez7015
Жыл бұрын
You better believe it! 👍🏼 I read the comments and some folks give him the benefit of the doubt. I even find him confrontational from the very beginning. Like the one that shouts the loudest is the one that is right. “Just because you feel offended doesn’t mean you are right” - Charlie Kirk - And I agree one million %
@JungleLarry
Жыл бұрын
They are extremely good friends and this is only one portion of a much lengthier discussion. Your assumption is wrong.
@syndroid
Жыл бұрын
this how a good discussion is supposed to be held. you question the other to better understand their argument and to test your own assumptions as well when presented with new information.
@incurableromantic4006
Жыл бұрын
IKR. His only argument was - "But what about feelings?"
@CharlieTWilbury
Жыл бұрын
@@JungleLarry some people see the world s binary. They can not process shades of grey
@anitam7547
Жыл бұрын
When I was young (70s/80s) I experienced Body Dysmorphic Disorder and depression. I was healthy, slim, athletic, attractive. I felt ugly and very self-conscious. If I had been of a wealthy family or if the National Health Service was catering to my beliefs about myself - I would be unrecognisable today. Various surgeries would have taken place, and I would surely hate myself for it. I would not be young again for any amount of money or incentive - especially in these times. I am so lucky to have been born in the 60's. Hope I pop my clogs before the world goes full r*tard.
@barbarasherman4870
Жыл бұрын
Great comment, kids are under their parents supervision for a reason.
@mement0_m0ri
10 ай бұрын
Watching Pageau sit there listening to this heated back and forth, with saint-like peace on his face, is the most inspirational thing about this clip.
@SidLaw500
Жыл бұрын
This is the way it's done, no meltdowns, no name-calling.
@AyayronBalakay
Жыл бұрын
The fact that he kept his name close to Ellen is interesting
@Falconlibrary
Жыл бұрын
Why throw out a perfectly good set of monogrammed towels?
@MysticDragonForce
Жыл бұрын
*she *her
@Space-Diver
Жыл бұрын
You mean she with no breasts and psychological problems.
@harrydavey9884
Жыл бұрын
Close. The fact that she kept her fake name close to Ellen is telling.
@BlackMuslimConservative
Жыл бұрын
@@harrydavey9884 Well said.
@vlndfee6481
Жыл бұрын
Libral friend constantly attacks Jordan.. And when Jordan explains. The libral trows up.. you are attacking. This is not a exploring the subject... But sounds like a fight. The libral dies not want to loose.. His self righteousness
@NdxtremePro
Жыл бұрын
You have a war with words so you don't have to have a war with swords.
@mannimula
Жыл бұрын
We need to talk about it for 5000 hours 😂 That’s the answer 😂
@blakium1
Жыл бұрын
Amazing conversation! So much respect coming from both ends.
@georgebariamis2002
Жыл бұрын
They Redefined the freedom of speech. Thank you for this fruitful discussion
@Adrian-yi8fl
Жыл бұрын
We are free to say what they tell us to say.
@coldee785
Жыл бұрын
No, they didn't. Grow up sweetheart
@TheBigd1975
Жыл бұрын
Man, I wish I was educated enough to keep up. But I do love listening to them be respectful and actually listen to each other. Have 3 young beautiful girls and before I settled down I lived a wild life. But have never worried about anything but worry now about the world that they will grow up in.
@TheHigherVoltage
Жыл бұрын
Um...if you were educated and knowledgeable enough, you would of been worried about a heck of a lot throughout your whole life. Fearmongering has been a staple of both right and left politics for well over 50 years.
@maryrankin9869
Жыл бұрын
Stay strong and grounded.
@JoiskiMe
Жыл бұрын
You can just listen to it many times, like the rest of us, brother 😁
@brandonbath6097
Жыл бұрын
Woman: “how can I be a better man” You…cannot.
@joaosustelo5628
Жыл бұрын
I have huge respect for JP but I am glad someone went after him in a civil discourse manner about his choose of words
@rockpile451
Жыл бұрын
The derivation of the word.....Insanity. "Being out of agreement with reality"👍
@jsogman
Жыл бұрын
Who decides what reality is though?
@forsakenquery
Жыл бұрын
The majority who are surviving and adapted well. When they're all wrong usually it means a catastrophe.
@rockpile451
Жыл бұрын
@@jsogman If you were born with male or female genitalia…….. that is reality. Thinking or feeling that you are something else…… is being out of agreement 👍
@jsogman
Жыл бұрын
@@rockpile451 yeah but im sure to that person its as real as any other thing in their life so who are we to say one way or the other if were not them?
@rockpile451
Жыл бұрын
@@jsogman I would like to thank you for proving my point about "Insanity". You could put on a tin foil hat, and think you are in communication with the Gamma Quadrant......it after all it is real to you. But, the minute you try to force your opinion on society......and society clearly rejects your reality as "Insanity". Society is saying, we do NOT have to support you morally or financially....which you think that we must do👍
@neverspreadjamonabadjer8459
Жыл бұрын
6:12 "It's hard enough to be gay..." In the modern western world, being gay is no harder than being heterosexual. As a matter of fact, one might argue that there's more support networks in place for the former. So let's dispense with the pity parade. Btw I have multiple spinal injuries courtesy of another road user & received NO compensation. That's hard!!! Who you choose to have sex with doesn't even rate a mention.
@TheHigherVoltage
Жыл бұрын
"In the modern western world, being gay is no harder than being heterosexual." Well, that depends on the community that person is in. I would not want to be a gay teen in a highly Christian town convinced that being gay is a choice...or a demon...that just needs to be exorcised out of a person. "Btw I have multiple spinal injuries courtesy of another road user & received NO compensation. " You must live in the USA. In every other first world country with socialized medicine, there's a variety of free stuff for you to take advantage of. "Who you choose to have sex with doesn't even merit a mention." I dunno man. I'm not aware of any major political push to demonize and dehumanize people with spinal injuries like there is with highly religious zealots demonizing and dehumanizing gay people.
@aalvarez2914
Жыл бұрын
No it’s not the same, and it definitely depends on the community. First of all your potential partners are reduced to a tenth, second guys act a lot different than women, especially about other guys. In life, guys hit on women all the time who aren’t attracted to them. The result usually isn’t usually women getting mad or threatening to punch them, if they’re respectful about it.A lot of guys act a lot more stupid in general about guys being attracted to them that they’re not interested in, whereas women are used to that just being a fact of life, people will be attracted to you that you’re not interested in. Guys can act like it’s some crime or fighting words. Then there’s the fact that just a lot of religious people pretend it’s some cardinal sin and are ignorantly judgmental to the point they pretend what they do aren’t sins “the same way” as if all the other ways they don’t even follow their own religion don’t matter, it’s “the gays” that are going to hell.. There are completely anti-religious areas where a fundamentalist Christian may get more flock than a gay guy, but it’s simply not the same as being straight.
@eliasgolf2024
Жыл бұрын
the nervous dude doesn't let JP talk! omg
@thosearentpillows5638
Жыл бұрын
Guy on right is such a grifter. He admitted to taking it personal. “I don’t want to get into stats and numbers”…there it is.
@CreativeUsernameEh
Жыл бұрын
If you're going to quote him, you must quote the entire sentence. "In this individual- I don't want to get into stats and numbers it's a different argument, and I probably can't keep up." In other words, he was trying to ask Peterson to consider this individuals story, as opposed to a zoomed out, dispassionate and low-resolution "Well stats show". He wanted Peterson to to consider someone as a human being, an individual. Peterson used to do that all the time. And Peterson's response to the story of someone actualizing themselves was that "If in finding your true identity you violate a cultural norm that is so profound that you destabilize the entire country then maybe you don't have the right to do that even if it actualizes yourself." ....He's normally brought to tears when he hears stories of his fans actualizing themselves, I'm curious why he brushed this one off so callously. The problem with this argument is that you could use it to argue for continuing slavery. Because freeing the slaves totally disrupted America, even led to a civil war. So much of the economy was predicated on slavery: Of course it was going to destablize the country and culture.... But surely you wouldn't argue that shouldn't have been done? The second flaw with this argument is that it also puts all blame on trans people like Peterson and devout "fans" that can't accept trans people. Who is really causing the destabilization? Trans people trying to live their lives as best they can, or Jordan Peterson recruiting an army to fight in the culture war. "Man the barricades, and keep the degenerates away from our children." I'd really like to hear back from you if you think that comparison to slavery is at all fair and if it made you reconsider the wisdom of Peterson's argument. I think he's articulate, but that doesn't make him correct.
@Amiaos
Жыл бұрын
Truly one of the few videos that makes old me understand what’s going on in the world or these young kids nowadays and what re we really dealing with. Thanks for uploading
@ThanksForAllMyToes
Жыл бұрын
I don't think people know what the term "destroys" means on KZitem. This was a peaceful and great debate between two views.
@CA-ee1et
Жыл бұрын
Someone who gets 500 tattoos on their face doesn't demand you say they look lovely. They don't try to get the government to force you to say they look lovely. They don't obliterate their past and make you pretend there was ever a time when they didn't have 500 tattoos.
@miticadumitru3294
Жыл бұрын
JP destroys nobody in this discussion.
@AccountantSteve23
Жыл бұрын
Oh my lord how has this not hit the main page already??? Jordan's remark at 6:49 is SO IMPORTANT!!! Like, yeas MAYBE your individual satisfaction takes a backseat to the greater good of society. Well yeah, isn't that the predicate of 95% of law? Like yes, I get personal fulfillment doing X illegal thing. Well jeeze Bob you can't just get self fulfillment by un@living your neighbors. Can't put up with that. Great clip. Good responses.
@MichaelJames-lz7ni
Жыл бұрын
Peterson wasn't preaching ANY of that during the COVID epidemic....I wonder why. His hypocrisy is really a bit much sometimes....as well as the gullibility of his 'followers'.
@DocOrtmeyer
Жыл бұрын
This. Indeed. It’s destabilizing society.
@suckieduckie
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelJames-lz7ni How? By pointing out that Canada's response to Covid was overblown and they shouldn't have screwed over the truckers and called them Nazis?
@MichaelJames-lz7ni
Жыл бұрын
@@suckieduckie Canada's response to COVID was appropriate - the truckers, and the general public, had a responsibility to the greater-good of society versus individual satisfaction. Which is EXACTLY what Peterson just said. No person can control who they infect with COVID, and no one has a 'right' to infect others with a potentially-fatal virus. Not in Canada, not anywhere.
@suckieduckie
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelJames-lz7ni Does this logic that you don't have the right to infect others apply to any other virus? How severe does a virus need to be to reach the cut off point? Do we now need to lock down when it's flue season? When it became clear that Omikron was much more mild, was it useful for Canada to force people to be vaccinated or lose their job eventhough Covid numbers were down across the board? Was it useful for Canada to stay locked down while other western countries were opening up, eventhough Canada has a much less dense population?
@bryanutility9609
Жыл бұрын
It’s child sacrifice
@cheeseburger12
Жыл бұрын
He talks about negotiating and yet there seems to be a fair amount of censorship on the issue. You can't really have a negotiation under those circumstances.
@troyjohnson3071
Жыл бұрын
Where is the full conversation?
@jb7753
Жыл бұрын
Such a respectful, amicable discussion. If only everyone spoke to each other this way when they don't agree on topics, you might actually get somewhere and solve problems.
@ninjason57
Жыл бұрын
Sounded pretty heated to me
@muddywitch9016
Жыл бұрын
Liberal friend here is hyper emotional and overly empathetic
@PlayerKV
Жыл бұрын
So now you're overly empathetic if you care about people being happy huh
@muddywitch9016
Жыл бұрын
@@PlayerKV Yes, if it makes you emotionally incontinent
@troymash8109
Жыл бұрын
Hyper emotional and evil is my take. Personally, I'd like to see everyone who even thinks that this "trans" kid stuff should be in any way normalized impaled on pikes lining the highways.
@PlayerKV
Жыл бұрын
@@muddywitch9016 had to google it lol, you're saying his liberal friend is emotionally unrestrained? That is some dumb shit. Ur just mad cuz his opinion is different than yours. Also thats the kind of dumb shit JP haters say when JP starts crying during interviews.
@PlayerKV
Жыл бұрын
@@troymash8109 lmaooo you actually think this guy is evil 😂😂😂 what a threat to humanity this guy is
@kristiparry1833
Жыл бұрын
“We are surgically transforming children that we are no longer allowed to talk to.” In other words, carve them up and hope their are no negative consequences. 😳😡
@jonnaking3054
Жыл бұрын
By definition, if something is LEGAL it's not CRIMINAL! Criminal has a legal definition. If Jordan thinks its IMMORAL, he should just call it immoral. And no Jordan, what the Nazis did to the Jews was not criminal, it was WRONG, and totally immoral, but since it was legal, by definition it wasn't criminal. What you mean to say is, not everything that's legal isn't immoral
@nunomuacho446
Жыл бұрын
2 very, very smart people having a conversation, this is next level education, for those who which to hear it ofc
@luisvazquez7015
Жыл бұрын
JBP can breakdown a clinical/ social issue to the T so rationally and articulate that even I find that what he says makes a lot of sense. Halfway through this debate (intellectual shellacking I would call it) you could sense abdication from the other party. The mediator perfect 👍🏼 Mad props to him!!!
@Flurgburglr
Жыл бұрын
If anyone made a mean tweet it was JP.
@seangawne8392
Жыл бұрын
I used to scoff at this stuff, but in recent years I've had one niece, one nephew and a son-in-law decide out of the blue they needed to transition. Every one of them is now miserable. The culture is pushing this and it's harming innocent young people.
@IpsissimusPrime
Жыл бұрын
“People can be confused for a very, very long time”. So simple. So true. One of the major problems today is that most folks don’t have the prerequisite skill set to work their way “through the weeds” because they can’t read dense prose. (i.e. the common complaint about books being too academic on Amazon reviews). Fictional stories and video have pretty much replaced reading in the younger generations although I am more hopeful that the post-millennial group is getting back to reading, especially history and ancient philosophy, based on my own experience as an educator and a father. This is why listening to Dr Peterson is worthwhile ( his guests like these two - not so much! - although his doing so is part of the greater work). Seems a lot of people have tuned into the Bible as a result of his lectures, but that’s just a start. If he can actually get young people to read Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Freud, Jung and so many others back to the Pre-Socratics , then I’m all for it. They’ll still need to work through the morass of speculative Christian Theology and the ton of post-Enlightenment ( and post-modern) material since the knowledge of the true philosophers and their “pagan ways” were so twisted so as to be “effectively “erased. That’s what been destroyed, not the ideas of a modern “liberal”.
@omidroshan8954
Жыл бұрын
This just shows that Dr. Peterson is not only a great psychologist but also a modern day philosopher. The way he breaks everything down to detail shows how much time he put into analyzing the specific topic and understands how many countless dimensions it can go, from years of experience, something which can't be bought but only earned through years of seeking wisdom. The host on the other hand was the fern from inbetween two ferns, he said absolutely nothing on this entire 11 minute long debate, just sat there 😄
@HansLaros
10 ай бұрын
It's extremely rare to find high quality debates on anything, in particular on this divisive subject. Regardless of your opinion on this matter, you have to appreciate the honesty and respect demonstrated here. More of this please!!!!!!!
@cahlendavidson2921
Жыл бұрын
Dude on the right is a smart guy with a losing argument
@KingCuba
Жыл бұрын
It’s incredible and genuinely uplifting to see Jordan Peterson in a conversation with someone who respects him and seems to be near a similar intelligence level. Honestly it’s inspiring. Oh and that is a click bait title, it’s pretty misleading
@jw-fb1iq
Жыл бұрын
I would love to see a conversation between Jordan and Elliot, I don't believe Elliot understood the true ramifications of what is going on the way Jordan does. I think they could work together to clean this mess up.
@GobiLux
Жыл бұрын
Page is a rather unintelligent person that lives in the Hollywood-bubble. I don't think a conversation could ever be had nor would she even be open to accept the fact that maybe some of her views need to be challenged.
@stevebradley1683
Жыл бұрын
@@GobiLux it’s cool that you know him personally.
@GobiLux
Жыл бұрын
@@stevebradley1683 I don't know Jordan Peterson personally, but I also don't know what that would matter.
@jw-fb1iq
Жыл бұрын
@@GobiLux I think most of us are in the grand scheme of things, I'm sure they could find common ground though and really do a lot of good for this situation.
@GobiLux
Жыл бұрын
@@jw-fb1iq I don't know where the common ground would be. She is screaming about perceived violence against trans people on national TV while Jordan Peterson is pointing out the dangers of compelled speech.
@RameoMTL
Жыл бұрын
The more they hash it out the more they agree with eachother.
@brandonhein9799
Жыл бұрын
I love how Jonathan Pageau is sitting there like, "how the hell did I get caught up in this" hahaha
@roberjohnsmith
Жыл бұрын
That's what you get when you're friends with JBP
@Make_Canada_Trudeau-Less-Again
Жыл бұрын
I mourned the death of Ellen Page, she is gone and it makes me sad.
@ichangedmyself4362
Жыл бұрын
Me too. She was fucking HOT.
@billhawkins192
Жыл бұрын
Amazing that a discussion, debate, or even an argument, has become "destructive". I thought it was the only way we learned? Challenge what you think you know.
@sylviarogue8139
Жыл бұрын
"Distroy" is utterly inaccurate. Brilliant conversation, both men thoroughly thought through and fully responsible for their opinions.
@jessekaasa674
Жыл бұрын
The smartest/wisest man in the room didn't say a word.
@easymentality
Жыл бұрын
Pageau's the TRUE hero here, and one which we'd all do well to emulate. He proves himself an intelligent, respectful person by not opening his bearded mouth just to spout some unasked-for opinions into a conversation between two OTHER people while he's sitting directly between them. What I wouldn't give to see that skill more rampant.
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