As a former psychonaught turned Orthodox Christian Rogan's romanticism of psychedelics really frustrated me. Yeah, I get it, dude. You had some fantastic trips that really 'opened your mind'. But opening your mind can make you vulnerable to spiritual attack. You're trying to bypass the door to salvation and if there is one thing I learned through my psychedelic journeys is that when you bypass the door, you become a trespasser and a thief. God will not let you get away with that.
@programme9363
Ай бұрын
"A trespasser and a thief" BARS!!
@phiswe
Ай бұрын
You are romanticizing “the door to salvation.” It’s precisely that kind of romanticization and projection that a psychedelic experience will strip away. You can either deal with it or not.
@hypnaudiostream3574
Ай бұрын
And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. Beautifully said
@darinwilson1776
Ай бұрын
@@phisweyou’re romanticizing the idea of romanticization, if there’s no supernatural then your argument for the natural falls on the same principle. You can either follow your conclusions to their logical end or not.
@crushinnihilism
Ай бұрын
Door to salvation? Part of the divine is in all of us.
@sunrhyze
Ай бұрын
The best thing I watched today was actually the Pageau/Boghossian conversation. I started out thinking I wouldn't stay for the whole thing, but I did! I haven't watched an entire episode of Rogan since sometime during the pandemic, but it's good to know he's still there doing what he does.
@aeiouaeiou100
Ай бұрын
He's back on yt since like 2 months and has uploaded all the Spotify episodes
@Landbeorht
Ай бұрын
Welcome home Paul glad to see you back at it!
@Lulubelle.III.
Ай бұрын
YES!! AND PLEASE KEEP UP THE SOUND QUALITY!!!
@TheDrb27
Ай бұрын
Something I’ve wondered about psychedelics was why the majority of people that had a bad trip had what I’d call a good life. People from broken families, large amounts of trauma etc would have breakthrough transformations. People from a steady home life on the other hand would have breakdowns. Might just be anecdotal but it seemed pretty consistent and I think ties into JBP saying religious practices protect people from the intense religious experience.
@Jared0203
Ай бұрын
Very interesting point
@Lulubelle.III.
Ай бұрын
It's about the company you keep (at the time). Swear to God.
@TheDrb27
Ай бұрын
@@Lulubelle.III. I’m not saying set and setting doesn’t play a big role but that’s not exactly what I’m pointing at. I’ve heard Cornel West make a similar point in regard to smoking pot. How it fueled and motivated many Jazz musicians that had gone through hell while people who hadn’t had those hardships would get lazy and or paranoid.
@Lulubelle.III.
Ай бұрын
@@TheDrb27 I'm not referring to other people. We are all different souls at varying times in our lives-- where we are in the battle against our own demons -- is the difference.
@TheDrb27
Ай бұрын
@@Lulubelle.III. Set refers to the persons mental situation and setting is what you are around or the weather. Set is describing what you just said basically. I think what I’m trying to get at is how if you have a good world view and take psychedelics it can go bad easier than for someone with a terrible world view that loses that view afterwards.
@ChrishBlake
Ай бұрын
15:18 apparently the new Pageau video is relevant here. Glad you’re back
@strangetheology
Ай бұрын
Schaeffer’s idea was that at this point in history people were making an illogical leap into mysticism. I think this lead to hedonism in some and other found Jesus.
@resilientrecoveryministries
Ай бұрын
Follow the script even if it means you die. He says to look to the birds of the field. He watches over them. But they get sick, they die, they lose young ones. The promise is that he is in sovereign even in our loss and grief.
@john-sheaffer
Ай бұрын
As someone who say taken ALOT of psychedelics, I don’t think changing psychic perspectives for a few hours really does as much as people claim. Either on the pro or con side. I’m very skeptical it had any significant long term effect on humanity. I will admit it can help/hurt some individuals. Mystical experiences, which were ALOT more traumatic for me, are quite different. Reactionary position seems ignorant. Advocacy position seems hedonistic and materialistic.
@EmilyTodicescu
Ай бұрын
18:33 “I don’t think it’s ever been explained to me that way, and I don’t think that most people think about it that way. When they think about it, they think, ‘Jesus died for our sins. There he is. Praise Jesus.’” FYI that was Joe’s response to Jordan. Jordan rejoined: “Right right right ..” Joe: “A very… Jordan: “Formulaic.” Joe: “…formulaic.. surface-level understanding of what it is we’re talking about.” That wasn’t what I found most fascinating about this interview. Normally it’s Jordan who becomes visibly emotional about a topic that triggers (in him) immense meaning and profundity. But this time it was Joe who briefly choked up. I’m loathe to psychoanalyse him from a distance, but something significant must have occurred in Joe’s childhood that involved a 1960s classic car.
@MoiLiberty
Ай бұрын
What happened to Jesus is the most unfair thing to happen to anyone. That will protect your heart because you should feel grateful that we have the choice. Love allows choice.
@christopherlaycock7445
Ай бұрын
Jordan Peterson pried open Pandora’s box, John Vervaeke flew out, Jonathon Pageau started naming the demons and hopefully PVK can grab Hope before the box is closed.
@danielgomessilva8966
Ай бұрын
Couldn't understand
@shrader88
Ай бұрын
Some interesting insights that I didn’t catch when watching this. I hope you are planning on doing a video about Pageau’s recent conversation with Alex O’Connor. Couldn’t help wondering what your thoughts were when watching that one
@Incredible_Mister_J
Ай бұрын
I think the problem is simply that they lean too much on their own understanding.
@alohm
Ай бұрын
Everything they express about The mushroom and the cross was wrong, wrong... We get mind revealing(psychedelic) experiences from psilocybe mushrooms not muscimol mushrooms, nevermind that the language is easier to debunk than knowing ancient Sumerian ;) But these experiences are unearned and thus not a lasting insight, only a glimpse. Which as John of the Cross alluded to: could be worse for some? (to be distanced is one thing, but to experience divinity, then have it obscure can be far worse) *Thus maybe the name for his work: The obscure night of the soul?
@ShowMeMoviesInc.
Ай бұрын
I’ve tried to explain this to people and they just don’t get it. The visions in revelation and the prophets are shockingly coherent and sober, they are not the same as psychedelic visions at all.
@matthewparlato5626
Ай бұрын
@@ShowMeMoviesInc. both interesting takes...and..I believe I'm on the other end of the spectrum. But I respect and appreciate both of yalls articulations.
@gabbygutierrez1885
Ай бұрын
Welcome back Paul!
@FacesSpaces
Ай бұрын
the flowing robes, the grace . . . impressive
@gabbygutierrez1885
Ай бұрын
I noticed the people in the Joe Rogan video comments section were annoyed by Jordan’s biblical talk.
@Alritealritealrite
Ай бұрын
Well, it's either too much or not enough for most people.
@alohm
Ай бұрын
10:15 I took JBP's comment about Jung's statement a reference to the idea that the church took away the personal approach to awe and the mystical experience?
@alohm
Ай бұрын
Q: Jung's comment on the church was created to keep religion from the masses was about keeping the approach from a personal perspective and turn religion into proxy? ChatGPT4o: Carl Jung's comment that "the church was created to keep religion from the masses" can be interpreted as a critique of how institutionalized religion often distances individuals from personal, direct religious or spiritual experiences. Here’s a deeper look into this interpretation: ### Jung's Critique of Institutionalized Religion 1. **Personal vs. Institutional Experience:** - Jung believed that true religious experience is deeply personal and transformative, involving direct encounters with the divine or the numinous (the experience of the holy or spiritual). - He suggested that the church, as an institution, can sometimes act as a mediator or proxy, thereby creating a layer between individuals and their direct experience of the divine. 2. **Control and Doctrine:** - By institutionalizing religion, the church establishes doctrines, rituals, and hierarchies that individuals are expected to follow. This can limit personal interpretation and the direct, subjective experience of spirituality. - Jung saw this as a form of control that can prevent people from engaging in their own spiritual journeys and discovering their personal connection with the divine. 3. **Religion and the Masses:** - The comment implies that the institutional church, rather than facilitating personal spiritual experiences, may serve to maintain order and conformity among the masses. - This control can suppress the unique, individual experiences of faith that Jung believed were essential for true psychological and spiritual development. ### Turning Religion into Proxy 1. **Mediation by the Church:** - When religion is mediated through the church, it can become more about following established rules and less about personal spiritual growth. - The church, in this sense, acts as a proxy that dictates the terms of religious experience rather than allowing individuals to find their own path. 2. **Loss of Personal Connection:** - The institutional approach can lead to a loss of personal connection to the divine, as people may rely more on the church’s interpretations and teachings rather than their own experiences and insights. - This can result in a more superficial engagement with religion, where the deeper, transformative aspects are overshadowed by adherence to doctrine and ritual. ### Jung’s Emphasis on Individual Spirituality 1. **Individuation Process:** - Jung emphasized the importance of individuation, a process of personal growth and self-realization where individuals integrate various aspects of their psyche, including their spiritual dimension. - Personal religious experience is a crucial part of this process, helping individuals connect with deeper aspects of themselves and the universe. 2. **Encouraging Direct Experience:** - Jung believed that true spiritual growth comes from direct, personal encounters with the divine, rather than through intermediaries. - He encouraged individuals to explore their own spiritual paths, engage with their unconscious, and find meaning in their own experiences. ### Conclusion Jung's critique highlights the potential pitfalls of institutionalized religion in distancing individuals from personal, direct spiritual experiences. By turning religion into a proxy, the church can prevent people from engaging deeply with their own spiritual journeys. Jung advocated for a more personal approach to spirituality, where individuals directly encounter and interpret their experiences with the divine, fostering true psychological and spiritual development.
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
Church hierarchy did, but created an outlet with the monastics and hermits, in the Egyptian desert.
@alohm
Ай бұрын
@@williambranch4283 Very true, but that does not leave a path for the average joe and janet? Anchorites in a broader community we need, not more sequestered from the world. Be in the world not of it...
@syntheticsleep
Ай бұрын
I listened to two great conversations today: this one and the Pageau/Boghossian talk. It's fascinating how different they were in subject but how similar they were in substance.
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
Pageau/Boghossian talk was good. Boghossian being obviously wrong.
@syntheticsleep
Ай бұрын
@@williambranch4283 Pete's just stuck in a frame. Most conversations with people in that position I find borderline insufferable, but at least he's trying to understand. I think he'll have his "Aha" moment.
@crushinnihilism
Ай бұрын
If the reason for sacrifice is a reward in the next world, then is it really a sacrifice?
@jmstigliano
Ай бұрын
i really wish Joe would have a solid scholar on the show to help him better understand the origins of scripture. I'm thinking Dr. Tim Mackie of The Bible Project would be a good person to start with
@gregkirk1842
Ай бұрын
The last half of the interview was actually alot more interesting.
@casualcarter4872
Ай бұрын
Welcome back! Glad you made it safely!
@matthewparlato5626
Ай бұрын
"I'm back." -- pvk
@DogOneIsOpen
Ай бұрын
The internet seemed a little colder the past couple weeks. Welcome back.
@EricYoungArt
Ай бұрын
Welcome back Paul! Glad you made it home safely. I've watched so much Rogan, he was actually how I first found JBP in 2016/17 and then this little corner. If you are really interested in Joe Rogan's perspective on religion and faith you need to become more familiar with Terence McKenna's work with psych*delics. It was the first thing he brought up in his rant but he's talked about these things numerous times on the show. He usually goes most in depth about this topic whenever his friend Duncan Trussell is on. Also the few times that Dennis McKenna (Terence's brother) was on. Terence was ultimately a kind of an optimistic shamanic futurist, he thought the rediscovery of psych*delics and the invention of the internet and other tech was going to usher in a new era of humanity where we would ultimately fulfill all the religious dreams of a paradise on Earth or a perfected "Heavenly" universe. Terence was raised Catholic, even though he said he rejected it once he was an adult, I think it still shaped a lot of his thoughts and ideas about the Cosmos we live in. Rogan has said numerous times that he thinks humanity right now is like a caterpillar building a cocoon and we're about to reform into something completely new. To him psych*delics are but a stepping stone to help people visualize that perfected future so they do not fear the coming transformation; and as a bonus they can be used to enhance creativity to further catalyze the whole process.
@siowat7911
Ай бұрын
JP's mission seems to be - How to present the Gospel to an academic (left brained) world without digging yourself into the hole of the leaven of the sadducees (best life now). JP needs the afterlife, I don't believe 'natural law' and other such ideas will get him there. We are told to choose who we will follow, not that it is somehow 'natural' to follow Jesus. The sacrifice of being a Christian can be real and Jesus promises us rewards in Heaven, in the afterlife. For true believers, the afterlife is real and not a psychological trick to get you to do the right thing.
@encle
Ай бұрын
Yesss, vanderklay on Peterson! ❤
@mostlynotworking4112
Ай бұрын
Gotta revisit Byrne power how we got here
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
The Gospels and Paul's letters are in Hellenistic Greek ... which is why Hannukah is denied ;-)
@mixk1d
Ай бұрын
Hannakuh isn’t denied Jesus celebrates it in the gospel
@lolersauresrex8837
Ай бұрын
Yeah.. it doesn’t matter if they!propositionally articulate that idea of the cross, they’re acting it out if they’re trying to follow Christ. Embodiment precedes abstraction, which precedes articulating. Where embodiment cannot be had, propositional points - and dramatization as an analog of embodying
@Subvisual
Ай бұрын
Backwood revivals/camp meetings led to rock concerts led back to Evangelical megachurches. The after effects of the Second Great Awakening keep animating America.
@gravitheist5431
Ай бұрын
Did he really say " The bearded man in the sky superstition isn't enough " ???
@crushinnihilism
Ай бұрын
He's right
@gravitheist5431
Ай бұрын
@@crushinnihilism Do you think Nietzsche was right about Christ being the last Christian ?
@crushinnihilism
Ай бұрын
@gravitheist5431 after listening to Ammon Hillman, I'm not sure if we know whi Christ was. Otherwise...yes. he'd hate the Church
@gravitheist5431
Ай бұрын
@@crushinnihilism Nietzsche and Jordan seem to be saying the same thing , Ammon has a unique perspective ,I don't know what to make of it
@NoahSteckley
Ай бұрын
Is it just me or has the numinosity gone out of Peterson’s trek? (Might be my horrible status in life rn)
@mostlynotworking4112
Ай бұрын
Gotta revisit Rick repettis rando
@Joefrenomics
Ай бұрын
He’s triggering a lot of Orthodox Christians with his suit. I hope Pageau tells him to retire that it.
@ACslater1
Ай бұрын
Petersons jacket is insane
@hypnaudiostream3574
Ай бұрын
The google translate on this is funny 👍 leave it! And his jackets have been wild. He’s rockin’ it
@ACslater1
Ай бұрын
@@hypnaudiostream3574I meant it as a criticism
@matthewparlato5626
Ай бұрын
First...sry again Paul about the IFS video complaint...love you Edit*** dangit BS...seconds
@pedrogorilla483
Ай бұрын
Lately I’ve been annoyed by JP pushing bible talk everywhere.
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
The vision of G-d is re-enchantment ... not an LSD trip. Cali religion is "straight out of Compton". If you embody the liturgy, you are living in the Son.
@CrAzD
Ай бұрын
Glad you're bak!
@jackjames6849
Ай бұрын
I just can't stand any of Peterson's treatments of the Bible. He appears to reduce Christianity to a useful social and moral technology. Appearing godly but denting the power thereof.
@justmbhman
Ай бұрын
He's like a gateway drug to Christianity. Sure it's not a classic Christian perspective maybe but the for the average secular person it's pulls them in...
@entropete
Ай бұрын
there is only one gate and one way
@justmbhman
Ай бұрын
@@entropete That's nice and all, but if we're being realistic, that phrase means nothing to the average secularist. It's like explaining quantum physics to some normal dude. He won't understand it, say "that's cool", then move on with his life. You need someone to bridge the gap between a secular/materialist worldview (that so many ppl have nowadays) and a religious one. That's what Peterson's been doing. That's what he's done for me...
@elektrotehnik94
Ай бұрын
❤️
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
Long live the fighters! - Paul Muad'Dib ... Chani warns against messiahs who never arrive or who go psycho about heavenly realms.
@jameskostrewa9861
Ай бұрын
👍
@323liska
Ай бұрын
ya, you probably shouldn't be playing with psychedelics if you can't correctly answer the devil question.
@anselman3156
Ай бұрын
It's not a "Gospel presentation" if it doesn't communicate Jesus dying for our sins.
@PaulVanderKlay
Ай бұрын
It's his gospel presentation.
@williambranch4283
Ай бұрын
@@PaulVanderKlay Good news of Jung and psychiatrists replacing proper confession in a Catholic church.
@anselman3156
Ай бұрын
@@PaulVanderKlay That would be "another gospel" which is no Gospel.
@chezispero3533
Ай бұрын
Welcome home פול
@SacraTessan
Ай бұрын
Yes I was chocked by Joe R s psychedelic ..I couldn’t listen. ..sound like fanatic propaganda as it already is mainstream because his big channel 1,6 mn sett den 47 000 gillat
@therealbs2000
Ай бұрын
First
@mutedplum465
Ай бұрын
welcome back:)
@buglepong
Ай бұрын
ultimately, most systems fall into a dualist mythology. i think empirically, dualism is somehow inherent to the pattern of being or perception. infer from two hemisphere theory a la mcgilchrist. infer from cartesian dualism. infer from two worlds theology. infer from physics' QM/general relativity. the idea of god being infinite is an extrapolation of the lesser pattern of being, but infinity is still infinitely larger than the massively big. the difference is unfathomable, to say the infinite can emanate downward to a discernible pattern of being for man is just... ridiculous. the god of religion is not the infinite god - YET.
@john-sheaffer
Ай бұрын
Binary is the simplest machine code. “Ultimately” dialectics run thought.
@AugustasKunc
Ай бұрын
+
@jorgejungl
Ай бұрын
Rambling nonsense here Paul. . What are you saying?
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