To add to the comments already here, this commentary from Jonathan Balcombe is important reading when it comes to what "justice" for fishes (and all other sentient beings) might actually comprise... "A strange thing happened to me this week: the celebrated philosopher Martha Nussbaum, on page 168 of her new book “Justice for Animals,” makes a series of misstatements about me. First, she attributes to me a statement about “humane fisheries.” I do not regard any of the myriad ways that humans exploit fishes-be it commercial, recreational, or aquaculture-as “humane,” and I challenge anyone to find me describing them as such. Second: “Balcombe views the morality of fish-eating as a complicated matter best left to the judgment of each individual, …” While I don’t believe in dictating what others eat, I do believe that everyone has a personal responsibility to eat consciously and compassionately, and that for most of humanity (excepting subsistence situations) abstaining from animal products is the best, dare say the only, way to eat consciously and compassionately. Third, and most disconcerting, in the remainder of the previous sentence quoted above, Nussbaum states: “…but he [Balcombe] says that he himself eats fish.” For the record: I don’t eat fish! Part of the evolution of my relationship with animals included becoming vegetarian in 1984, and vegan in 1989. I have not wavered from these lifestyle choices (and never shall), and I make no secret of them (as a quick online search will reveal). While these errors are very distressing and potentially damaging to me, I realize that Nussbaum had no malicious intent. Nevertheless, I can imagine at least some readers (who know me or my work) being surprised at what they read about me here, and many others (who don’t) getting the wrong impression. I am now in contact with Nussbaum about these strange errors. She has apologized, and steps are being taken to rectify the situation, as best as can be done after a book gets published." From: facebook.com/jbalcombe1
@maryfinelli9390
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I'm glad that Dr. Nussbaum isn’t happy about eating fish, and that she wonders and wants to learn more about it. She has given no good reason why she thinks fishes are different from other animals whom she deems worthy of justice. Instead, she merely states: “So, Utilitarians from Bentham to Jeff McMahon, have said that animals live in the moment, they don't have these projects evolving through time. I think they're wrong about most animals but I do think they're right about fish, I think that's how fish think.” I would direct her to the book, What a Fish Knows*, by Jonathan Balcombe, who explains: “We now know that [fishes] are sentient beings with meaningful lives. They plan, recognize, remember, court, play, parent, innovate, manipulate, collaborate, communicate with gestures, keep accounts, show virtue, form attachments, possess culture, fall for optical illusions, use tools, learn by observation and form mental maps. They merit no less respect and moral consideration than their celebrated vertebrate cousins, mammals and birds.” * us.macmillan.com/books/9780374714338 See also: fishfeel.org/fish-are-fintastic/ Dr. Nussbaum further stated: “the painless death of a fish who’s had plenty of time to swim around in the wild, and has had a pretty decent life overall, is not a harm to the fish, I believe, and so I actually do eat fish” So that rules out farmed fishes and it should also rule out wild-caught fishes since not only do they suffer painful, prolonged death (by suffocation, being frozen to death, gutted while conscious, etc.) they also suffer torturously while being caught (e.g., crushed to death under the weight of others in immense nets, impaled and hauled through the water by a hook in their mouth, left hooked on a baited line for hours or longer, etc.). As Jonathan Safran Foer notes in his book, Eating Animals: “You never have to wonder if the fish on your plate had to suffer. [They] did.” Since she eats fish, she not only is not vegan, she isn’t even vegetarian. All of the protein she needs in order to thrive can easily be obtained from plant sources, and without the mercury, dioxins, PCBs, parasites, micro-plastics, cholesterol, saturated fat, animal (including human) suffering, and environmental destruction that accompanies fish consumption. (See: www.FishFeel.org/fish-is-a-health-hazard/ ) I have numerous other concerns with her comments but I will leave it at this for now. I don’t know if she will be reading these comments but I hope you will call her attention to both mine and Jamie Woodhouse’s. Mary Finelli President, Fish Feel www.FishFeel.org
@jeremydavidbendik-keymer2980
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Hi Mary, I sent this to Martha and Anthony. Thanks for posting it. Jeremy
@maryfinelli9390
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@@jeremydavidbendik-keymer2980 Thank you, Jeremy, very much!
@probablyadog
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On top of all that, what's wrong with living in the moment? As a student of Buddhism I think that the way animals live in the moment is something to learn from -- perhaps even the most important thing. I understand Dr. Nussbaum though as I know it can be hard to give up every non-vegan food, and for most people it is a process, including me.
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