As far as I can tell, "folded 1,000 times" came from a legend about a specific sword made for or by a God. I don't know how it wound up applied to all katanas.
@lambdacalculus3505
Ай бұрын
A god made all of those x1000 folded steel katanas I see on craigslist. its the only explaination. non-believers will claim they merely evolved those folds
@3v1lp1ngv1n
Ай бұрын
also, if you fold something 10 times in half it has 1024 layers
@cillianthestupendous6093
Ай бұрын
Well, if you fold the steel 10 times, that results in 1024 destinct layers, as every fold doubles the number. Maybe people mistook "1000 layers" to mean "folded 1000 times"?
@judicatorhurayth1927
Ай бұрын
@@cillianthestupendous6093 probably a mistranslation
@TysonMakoaWickes
Ай бұрын
@@cillianthestupendous6093I concur.
@NiCoNiCoNiCola
Ай бұрын
"Our swords are an accessory and a sign of status" "LMAOOOO same"
@SeanCrosser
Ай бұрын
"bro I love your artsy tsuba, here, have a look at the sweeps on my smallsword" "Wow is that gold inlay? And blackening? Beautiful"
@whitewall2253
Ай бұрын
Eh, a swords utility has been all over the place over the years.
@LordVader1094
Ай бұрын
@@whitewall2253It's still an accessory, not a dedicated war weapon like a polearm.
@whitewall2253
Ай бұрын
@@LordVader1094 I wouldn't call swords accessories, for most of history they have been ancillary weapons but there is a world of difference between a back up and a display piece. Besides, swords have been wielded as dedicated weapons many times in history and were used quite often for personal defence where a polearm would be quite impractical. You cannot exactly carry a poleaxe around with you everywhere you go.
@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus
Ай бұрын
@@LordVader1094 depends on the sword and era, some were used to break through polearm or as Calvary weapons.
@netcyber
Ай бұрын
Especially funny when you realize that neither warriors would've used swords as their main weapon. Samurai are, first and foremost, mounted archers. Barring that, they'd used a spear. Same with the knight, a spear or a mace would've been their choice.
@ravenstales6457
Ай бұрын
Thank you.
@user-ud6ru4gu4e
Ай бұрын
Knights did not have a common weapon set, they mastered every weapon known to them and each chose their own getup, you are generally right that they would use a lance against fellow knights on horse back, and a mace or war hammer/pick (they are the same thing) against knights on foot, but other than that they chose their weapons independently and just as many gravitated towards the sword as any other weapon
@user-ud6ru4gu4e
Ай бұрын
It also depends on the era of course, in the earlier medieval period back when they wore chain mail they used spears more than other weapons, but the mace had yet to settle in as useful and the sword was the second main weapon. While later knights made extreme use of the mace but had all but discarded normal spears (except lances)
@Wildfox1177
Ай бұрын
Streitkolben ftw!
@yokai1235
Ай бұрын
more likely the knights would prefer a gun over a lance
@ZeoffArcaneOfficial
Ай бұрын
In general if I see "folded a thousand times" used seriously I disregard their entire argument no matter what side they're on. It's a very good litmus test for "did they do their research?"
@atom8248
Ай бұрын
Even worse is "mono-tempered European spring steel" lol
@PJDAltamirus0425
Ай бұрын
Well, there is pictorial evidence of period European swords being springy. Scholagladiaria showed some.
@atom8248
Ай бұрын
@@PJDAltamirus0425 That's not good evidence that they are through hardened. A thin piece of mild steel or brass even will flex to a certain degree. I have a dha that I can flex to certain degree and I know for a fact that it is only edge hardened I'm not saying through hardened swords didn't exist in Europe but I really question the idea that they were the majority. Some swords aren't hardened, some are pattern welded or laminated with iron, are carburized wrought iron, have iron cores, are differentially hardened etc.
@leonardomarquesbellini
Ай бұрын
@@PJDAltamirus0425he also showed an account of Richard III shatering his sword by using it to spank a peasant with the flat in an earlier video. Pre-industrial metallurgy is not reliable enough for us to make definitive statements about how a blade would've been like simply based on its style.
@zanderaw
Ай бұрын
I do not think this was used seriously.
@Nialdrun_
Ай бұрын
I hype the Katana because of the artistry and craftsmanship that goes into each sword and its blade You hype the Katana because you think it’s the best sword We are not the same
@Sir_knight_trooper
Ай бұрын
I hype my blunderbuss-axe combo because it's a miller time child
@Nialdrun_
Ай бұрын
@@Sir_knight_trooper fair enough
@vinne6837
Ай бұрын
I hype the katana because it looks cool like every other sword as well
@Nialdrun_
Ай бұрын
@@vinne6837 Quite valid
@Kwisatz-Chaderach
Ай бұрын
@@vinne6837swords are pretty fn cool.
@ManCat114
Ай бұрын
I love how the users of this meme most likely bought Pakistani “Damascus” knives first.
@Nitram7482
Ай бұрын
who even bought a knife from pakistan?
@ManCat114
Ай бұрын
@@Nitram7482 if you want cheap af Damascus, you get shit Damascus. I’ve even had guy dm me to try and sell me one. It’s not the country, it’s the idea. Like rich kings from Nigeria needing a random account to push all their money in while they leave.
@grumplo3321
Ай бұрын
Katana not bad, it's just not THAT good.
@marekgorka9816
Ай бұрын
It was a good backup weapon that withstood the test of time for a really long period. But it's "just" a sword. So basically, I repeated what you said but a bit longer.
@wrongeden3420
Ай бұрын
Like most swords, the long pokey sticks outperform them.
@marekgorka9816
Ай бұрын
@@wrongeden3420 Yes, in a battle situation you'd probably want a spear or other polearm over a sword.
@einarr7301
Ай бұрын
@@marekgorka9816 it withstood the test of time because the japanese go through long periods of isolation and remain set in their ways. Historically, they have an aversion to change and refuse to change until they are forced to. Even with their first firearms. They used matchlock tanegashima from the mid 1500s up until halfway through the 19th century. Will we say this is because matchlock guns are so good that theres no need to improve them? We would not. They shut themselves away and just kept doing what they were doing while everyone else around them evolved their weaponry. Dont get me wrong, i have a certain appreciation for them for not giving a damn what everyone else was doing and keeping to themselves. The result of that, however, is stagnat arms development. I believe this is why the katana lasted so long and why there was significantly less sword evolution in japan than we see in europe
@demiurgentcare
Ай бұрын
Katana is just the Japanese word for sword. A class of weapons which absolutely did change and evolve over time. The Japanese are as innovative as anyone else. Comparing them to Europe is comparing a country to a continent
@gatling216
Ай бұрын
When asking “which is better”, you have to first answer the question “better at what?” Pretty much all swords were a product of their time, use case, and fashion. They also tend to take into account the materials available. Tamahagane has high hardness, but is relatively brittle. So, katanas were made thick and used differential hardening to overcome that, and they optimized for cutting. European swords tended to be through hardened and the steel had a bit more flex, so their construction varied to take into that into account. Katanas varied in length and curvature over their period of use. European swords varied in length and curvature over their period of use. Katanas were bad against armor, but so was basically every other sword ever. Not even the longsword was really great at it; you could get the tip onto weak points if you knew what you were doing, but there’s a reason things like the mordhau existed. Way easier to ring the other dude’s helmet like a bell to buy some breathing room to pry them open like a lobster. Longswords were also only popular for a couple hundred years, and they were probably never THE dominant sword in the regions where they were used. They had a number of contemporaries, each rising from different needs and social pressures. There is no objective best sword, and no sword that saw prolonged use was objectively bad. Bad swords tend to get you killed, and the problem solves itself. If you can’t say one is the best and you can’t say one was the worst, then all you can really do is pick one that meets your needs and is available to you, and nearly every sword is the best for someone at a particular point in time.
@GusCraft460
Ай бұрын
Tamahagane is very low quality when it is first produced. The many folds required in forging a katana are so important because they work impurities out of the steel. It’s a long and highly labor intensive process that produces a decent quality blade, but such a difficult process is unnecessary if you just started with decent steel to begin with. It’s not that katanas are bad. They are just labor inefficient.
@Stevie-J
Ай бұрын
Everything you said is correct but I will ignore it because I was trained to believe that Europeans are not allowed to be proud of their history. Japanese should be proud of their history though.
@letsgooo162
Ай бұрын
meanwhile the spear ... 🗿
@SeanCrosser
Ай бұрын
Sharp stick win
@ahmadsuleman9045
27 күн бұрын
Pole arms are kinda gay
@leoprzytuac3660
Ай бұрын
It's surprising to me that there are *STILL* people trying to pitch Japanese and European swords against each other. I guess stupidity never goes away.
@leonardomarquesbellini
Ай бұрын
Two peoples half a planet away that barely ever fought with one another during the period, but people insist on comparing them.
@jaegercat6702
Ай бұрын
@@leonardomarquesbellinithat’s kind of exactly why we compare them, cuz we never got to in the real world
@johnlong572
Ай бұрын
I know right Like what fucking idiots comparing two types of one thing what complete fool's
@Leon-eq6ei
Ай бұрын
Fun fact 1 cm of steel contains 3*10^23 atoms. 1000 folds equal to 2^1000 or 10^302 layers. That means that only 1 out of 10^280 layers actually contain an iron atom. To pit this in perspective. For a sword to have 1000 folds it has to be at least 10^280 light years big
@louisryan5815
Ай бұрын
I think the point of this meme is that European pig iron was generally of higher quality just fresh out of the Earth, and Japanese pig iron needed to be worked excessively in order to work as well. Due to the commitment and skill of japanese swordsmiths, this issue was often overcome, but even so, around the 16th century Japan tended to import iron for sword making
@PhycoKrusk
Ай бұрын
That's long been my understanding; the starting iron was not a very good quality, and so it needed to be worked more in order to get a desirable quality of steel. Once that was done, however, the resulting product was at least as good as steel from anywhere else at that time.
@LachlanJeffreyDrew
Ай бұрын
Honestly we need more fantasy characters that use different swords from around world and uses them depending on what’s better in the moment ie katana to cut longsword to pierce and an African sword (don’t remember the name) to absolutely mutilate someone/something
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
"better in the moment ie katana to cut longsword to pierce" you have been watching too much anime, cause if you have a sword design that can somehow cut through solid metal, then why bother having anything other then katanas at that point?
@WorldBridger70
Ай бұрын
@@user-do8ot1mu6c But they didn't say anything about cutting through steel, or about anime. Just that some weapons have a specialty and that they want more characters to lean into that utility
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
@@WorldBridger70 unless he's talking about longswords made out of wood, my point stands. and anime is the thing that made katanas seem like they have that ability, so he doesn't need to mention anime in order for me to know where that misconception came from.
@WorldBridger70
Ай бұрын
@@user-do8ot1mu6cTo my understanding, mechanically, it's a kitchen knife VS a meat cleaver. When you swing, one slices and one chops. When you hit bone, the katana turns and goes around to keep cutting flesh, the longsword is using enough energy to go through the bone. Path of least resistance VS overcoming resistance. And when both of them hit metal armor, they're mainly only doing blunt force trauma. In regards to stabbing, a longsword is a straight push in pull out, while the katana is more annoying to pull out.
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
@@WorldBridger70 that's my point, neither of them can cut through metal, OP's comment made it sound like the katana's primary role is to cut through other swords like butter. which wouldn't make sense in a fantasy setting unless said sword is made out of a special metal and the other one isn't. like valyrian steel from game of thrones.
@TheArklyte
Ай бұрын
It came from weebs misunderstanding how everything works and pissing off the whole historical reconstruction and gaming communities. People hate katana because a decade ago they were absolutely done with gigatons of weebs ruining every conversation online and offline. And those weebs became game designers in Ubisoft😂
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
In the 1970s, a historian of shady reputation claimed that the katana was fragile in order to deny war crimes done in massacres like Nanjing. Yamamoto Shichihei, if you're interested. That's the oldest instance of "katana bad" that I can find. Nothing to do with anime or gaming. War crime denial. Then in the 90s some people who were resurrecting Historical European Martial Arts made similar claim against Japanese weapons in order to get people interested in their weapons. THEN people started saying those exact same things, war crime denial points and manipulative advertising points, to debunk people who like anime. Although that debunking often blends with racism and can almost always get debunked itself.
@SeanCrosser
Ай бұрын
"and those weebs became game designers in Ubisoft" Ah is that why they hemmed and hawed on making a japanese AC game for like 2 decades, as well as say that "there's nothing exciting in Japan, and no tall buildings to climb"? Bro Ubisoft is EXTREMELY eurocentric, the F are you on calling them weebs.
@topblokehere6579
Ай бұрын
@MarcusVance holy shit. I didn't know that. I also think it can stem from the concept with ' West is Best" idea certain people have. It can often be bigoted and denies the major discoveries and inventions made in Eastern countries.
@massgunner4152
Ай бұрын
Ubisoft? You should have said Fromsoftware, they put so much effort in overpowering katanas that they make the other weapons worse based on how much weebs love them.
Katana steel is of high quality, so around 1970, a Japanese steel company analyzed Katana and developed Yasugi Specialty Steel (yasuki hagane), a modern steel made in a low-temperature furnace. YSS is used for blades and engine parts. In a low-temperature furnace of 1400 degrees, the iron sand becomes semi-molten, but only the impurities can be removed, making it possible to make high-quality steel. Japan has many volcanoes, and unlike iron ore, the weathered iron sand made from the titanium magnetite contained in the magma has fewer impurities and contains vanadium, which strengthens steel. Vanadium gives steel ductility and makes it easier to roll, making it easier to fold. When folded, the vanadium disperses finely and combines with carbon to form a fine metal structure, so Katana has excellent hardness, wear resistance, corrosion resistance, and toughness, and can be polished to make it beautiful.
@Flesh_Wizard
Ай бұрын
Katana, Longsword, what about a good Messer or Falchion?
@Wanaskiwin
Ай бұрын
I feel like i've heard more about people saying that others are saying "Katana Bad" and my own personal experience has taught me "katana, useful, but games make them unbelievably OP". I wanna say Left For Dead had really really over powered Katanas as does Boneworks VR (which sounds dirty, and it isn't), Though games like Kenshi definitely does them a good justice as having them just a common sword you'll find everywhere that'll serve you well enough.
@yapflipthegrunt4687
Ай бұрын
The reason they're so good in left for dead isn't anything specifically to do with the katana aspect, just the "having a sword" aspect
@Wanaskiwin
Ай бұрын
@@yapflipthegrunt4687 yeah i suppose, i coulda sworn there was other swords? Eh, even if im wrong about L4D the statement itself isnt fully untrue. most katanas in games usually are one hitters. specially in boneworks where every other sword takes quite a few swings and then the katana you can just lightly touch an enemy anywhere and they die. it was neat if a little OP considering how easily hordes of enemies could be taken down anyway. Im not saying Katana bad, just saying i think video games make them really flashy and powerful. But theyre still just swords really.
@Swordofswordom
Ай бұрын
A frying pan is usually better than your starting pistol in Left For Dead. 😅
@Taron_HaiTar
Ай бұрын
One thing to note when comparing "Katanas" and European swords - *their role:* "Katanas" are either secondaries and backups (regular Katanas and short versions), or a *very* specialized primary (that *big* version, which supposedly to be used against horses). European swords are *much* more diverse, but they can be vaguely grouped into 2 "roles": first is (in most cases?) flashy primary (longswords and such); second is a decently used secondary/situational "switch-to"/combo weapon, sometimes used with either shield or second weapon (mainly one-handed blades). Because of it, they are made for those specific ocasions often, making them perform not that well in other roles. As such, putting them against eachother is often resulting either in wrong assumptions, or pointless all-together. So be mindfull of this factor when compairing them. (Do note, that I'm NOT an expert and assuming lot of things here! + I wrote this comment with only my memory of varios disjointed pieces of information about this topic, so alot of things might be wrong!)
@fransthefox9682
Ай бұрын
That "big katana" you're referring to is called the Nodachi or Odachi (both names are valid). And it's actually a big Tachi. But they fell out of use after a few hundred years for how unwieldy they are and how expensive to make. So they got replaced by the Nagamaki, which is more manageable, less expensive, and easier to make.
@Taron_HaiTar
Ай бұрын
@@fransthefox9682 Thanks for the info and name reminder! Also, I looked up Nagamaki - *it's just an BIG (and sometimes more curved) handle with X1.5/2.0(?) bigger katana blade...* it's genios!
@fransthefox9682
Ай бұрын
@@Taron_HaiTar Yup, it's a sword-polearm hybrid designed to be used against cavalry. Often targeting the legs of a horse (poor animals). They're generally about 50% handle and 50% blade, with often one being a little longer than the other.
@chrismath149
Ай бұрын
Longswords were not used as often as a primary weapon either as it is still inerior in reach to a spear. Even a sword built on the premise of defeating armour ( narrow point, good at thrusting in gaps ) will struggle. I think a good comparison would be a personal defence weapon ( one meant to provide protection and be carried easily while also not being in the way ). The longsword also had a prominent role in judicial duels.
@Taron_HaiTar
Ай бұрын
@@chrismath149 Ah, so Longsword types are more primary personal defence/primary backup/tournament weapon! Thanks for clarification!
@collinnicolazzo2065
Ай бұрын
@Marcus Vance First and I have a question If you had to make a hybrid style armor and a hybrid style sword what would you make and why
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
Not sure about armor, but for a sword maybe a falx/katana. More or less a heavily curved double edged katana. Acts like a katana facing one direction, and an anti-armor war pick the other
@Candlemancer
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVance This is actually a real thing, kind of. More intended to make katana better at thrusting, rather than the more exaggerated curve letting you strike with the tip like a falx though. It's called a moroha-zukuri katana.
@einarr7301
Ай бұрын
historically, the japanese after making contact with europeans made a hyrbid style armor. they loved the european style breastplates and helmets and incorporated them into their kit
@leonardomarquesbellini
Ай бұрын
@@einarr7301I think it's less that they loved the european breastplate and cabacet and more that theybloved not being shot by arquebusiers. It also wasn't just the Japanese doing that, you find those 2 items being incorporated into the traditional armours of Southeast Asia where the Portuguese and Spanish (and later Dutch) had a significant presence.
@einarr7301
Ай бұрын
@@leonardomarquesbellini if they didnt like it and didnt think it wasnt better, they wouldnt of used it.
@ricardodemarco3486
Ай бұрын
There is a bloke in twitter that studies or has access to a lot of material and research papers about japanese weaponry and armor, Gunsen History is called, and he shows that sword making technology and practices were almost the same or equivalent between Japan and Europe, at least up to the 17th century when Japan became isolationist and its technology almost stagnated during the Edo period. In both places steel was folded, for example, and the japanese did know how to fully melt iron and carburize it enough to make cast iron and then decarburize it back. Pretty interesting stuff, worth taking a look into it.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
Great account to follow
@Caldenor328
Ай бұрын
Then there’s Wootz steel that was the best for centuries and hardly anyone mentions it.
@loreman2803
Ай бұрын
My grip is their Armour tbh, they never seemed to embrace plate for whatever reasons and it seemed odd
@NiCoNiCoNiCola
Ай бұрын
Never seemed is more tied to "not much reason to use this expensive thing" There's still examples of Spanish cuirasses being used in tandem with Japanese armour
@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699
Ай бұрын
@@NiCoNiCoNiCola they seemed to be more for fashion since they were in contact with Europeans since 1543 but the first nanban armor appears later in the 1590’s
@NiCoNiCoNiCola
Ай бұрын
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 fair point Once again, their armour is more built for countering arrows, rather than blades, especially them big ass pauldrons
@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699
Ай бұрын
@@NiCoNiCoNiCola it’s a bit more complicated than that. O-sode, the big square pauldrons, were phased out by the mid/late 14th century. They get replaced by what are called tsubo-sode that are curved and hug the shoulder and upper arm.
@user-fu3if6yn7g
Ай бұрын
Different tools, different purposes. Apples and oranges.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
This video is discussing one tool.
@brocksteele7475
Ай бұрын
Going in a different direction, the original image is mocking Japanese smiths for making something good out of poor resources and celebrating the Europeans for simply being lucky enough to have an abundance of good iron available for use. While also just completely discrediting the skill and craftsmanship that goes into Europeans swords. "Katanas weren't actually the best sword" has started to drift closer and closer to just anti-Japanese racism. Or maybe that was always the case and I was just young.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
It might go even deeper than that. The oldest "katana bad" reference I've heard was from Yamamoto Shichihei, an incredibly shady historian, who claimed that Japanese blades were weak, so they couldn't have been used in massacres such as Nanjing. So the oldest "katana bad" was war crime denial.
@40088922
Ай бұрын
I once heard that tamahagane folding was actually dangerous because if the smith wasn't too good or just unlucky, it would leave certain weak points in the blade, not that it was common, but it was possible (in fact, there was a picture of a cut blade with air pockets or something, I don't remember), which is one of the reasons why modern-made katana with a single metal are better. idk how much truth there is in this, but it sounded plausible
@falsebeliever8079
Ай бұрын
Viking axes often had hardened edges
@maxwellvindman7212
Ай бұрын
well there was certainly a reason katanas have been used for such a long time
@kompatybilijny9348
Ай бұрын
Yes and that reason is the law in feudal Japan. Whoever drew their weapon first was considered to have started the fight. Therefore, the sword was specifically designed for quickdraw attacks. That's why it has the shape that it has, that's why the guard is garbage etc.
@SeanCrosser
Ай бұрын
@@kompatybilijny9348 yeah, same reason why smallswords became smaller, since they became first blood duel weapons between gentlemen, and not for war.
@MisterAnonymous1000
Ай бұрын
If I remember correctly, didn't they also have burn a ridiculous amount of charcoal as well? It have could been for an entire batch of swords, but I don't know.
@Siilk70
Ай бұрын
It's more about the Swordsman than the sword
@shambleshef
Ай бұрын
Please unpack the souls franchise katanas. I think they would be a fun topic to dissect especially with how unbalanced they are compared to other swords in those games.
@ricaroanimar6695
Ай бұрын
Pretty sure it was a mixture of their furnaces not burning high enough so impurities staying in and as a reaction pig iron being used. Since when u fold it carbon content is lost. This way u homogeneous the steel, move hardness and softness were u want and have the needed carbon content for good steel, that way u get the desired outcome. So there technics were born out of the situation they had at hand. The katana is still not the end all he all. It's just a good sword made because of the context of the situation. It's also not bad sword, it's geometry is fine for the intended purpose and they are great cutters. Some areas of the world just had different technologies at different times. They aren't necessarily ahead of one another either. They just hadn't figured out how to do that thing yet.
@AvengerofWarcraft
Ай бұрын
Katanas are neat. Which is why Tanegashima is good.
@Romuluz369
Ай бұрын
Katanas were excellent weapons, especially for the time. Well made, and quite strong. Longswords, and ANY OTHER SWORDS made of quality steel will have similar properties. Katanas were special for their time just because most people were still using iron, and the traditional process for making a katana happened to creat steel of various types based on how mucb carbon ended up trapped in the iron. Folding the steel helped make that carbon content uniform. Relax people, we know steel better now. Its just another material. The use of 2 types of steel is absolutely a good idea considering the limitations they had but its not at all necessary anymore.
@normaleverydayman7004
Ай бұрын
Its just another sword
@kevgmei
Ай бұрын
A katana is just a Japanese sword
@einarr7301
Ай бұрын
first of all, no hate. i love the katana. always have. that being said, i still think the longsword is a better weapon. i think the big thing overlooked that makes longswords better isnt necessarily steel quality but utility. two edges are better than one. a crossguard offers more protection than a tsuba, as well as having much more utility in a bind. the pommel is a very nice counter weight. longswords also, on average, have greater reach. you can also have a spring steel longsword. as far as i know, there were no spring steel katana. by all means please correct me if there are, im just not aware of any.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
Hopefully a numbered response doesn't seem rude, but seems like a good format. 1. Utility is a double-edged sword. If a sword has a niche and is used in that niche well, utility isn't an issue. Being able to do more isn't automatically superior if it can't fill that niche as well. And that's not even getting into if a longsword really has more utility. 2. Double-edged vs single is similar to above. Unless the double edged sword is very wide, it can't have the same type of bevel taper a single edged blade can. While longswords can definitely cut and cut well, the design isn't optimized for it. Plus single edged can give a thick spine for stability. Generally, double-edged swords are thinner. Both have pros and cons. 3. Cross guard vs tsuba: After/during the longsword period, Europeans found that it was pretty nice having some protection on the side of the blade. So a tsuba and cross guard both offer different types of hand protection, each being valuable. While a crossguard does have more utility in a bind, a tsuba is easier to wear in some configurations. Trade offs. 4. A pommel is a nice counterweight. However, a sword designed with cutting in mind might not want that front heavy weight countered. Some blades like the Turkish kilij even want MORE weight up there and introduce features for such. So one isn't better, just serve different goals. 5. With length, yeah, longswords are generally longer. In a 1x1, that's a huge advantage. However, longer swords are more difficult to carry. Samurai carried their blades on and off the battlefield while longswords were less used for non-war self-defense. Again, trade offs and different goals. 6. Pre-industrial spring steel was pretty darn far from modern spring steel. Even then, it's essentially returning to true after bending vs resisting bending in the first place. Both were used in many places. Tl;dr: both focused on different things, and did those things well
@leonardomarquesbellini
Ай бұрын
A few antique nihonto are said to be made from imported spring steel, mainly from China during the Sengoku when blades were in high demand. But those are very few and far between right now. Either because there were never that many of them in circulation (for any number of reasons you could argue, from economics to usability) or because people didn't bother preserving them to the same extent not many survive to this day.
@leonardomarquesbellini
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVance100% this. Weapons are tools made to suit the needs of the people using them. The Medieval longsword looked the way it did because it existed in a particular context that, if it were different, would've resulted in a different longsword. It's not to say every single weapon is just as good as others, but whenever a group encounters something objectively better than what they themselves have they tend to just adopt it as well. And even during the height of its popularity the longsword wasn't the dominant weapon in Europe, it was one of the options people had access to and would sometimes choose, depending on preferences and context. If it wasn't the end all be all in its native culture why would it be that on a global scale?
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
@leonardomarquesbellini for sure! Although an interesting note is that pretty much everywhere eventually went with sabers. And what is a katana but a hand-and-a-half saber?
@ax9897
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVancethe only point of longswords is their better thrust capacity. And thzt is only relevant when facing opponents wearing cut resistant body armor. Which Europe had more presence of on the battlefield than Japan did. Yet it was still only a secundary weapon after polearms. Alongside the arming sword depending and who you were and what your task in the combat was. The longsword was the battlefield secondary weapon for those expecting to end up in close quarters and having a higher risk if using it. Just like a semi automatic pistol is the backup of a full auto rifle. The arming sword or one handed sabers were the backup weapon of those who stayed un the backlines. Just like a short bolt action rifle has been, during the cold war, the backup weapon of many artillery crews. Also. The arming sword and one handed sabers were the day-to-day self defense weapon. When you carried something bigger than a dagger/knife, expecting trouble, and didn't have any nobility reason to show your status by carrying a longsword. Aka all the "middle" class or merchants and skilled artisans. Daggers and short swords.
@yokai1235
Ай бұрын
the European importing katanas is because it was exotic and they wanted to either text or keep as collection but most eu swords at the time that talked how heavy the blade was and how good the material and well crafted the handle was but didn't like the shape
@eagle162
Ай бұрын
They already had similar blades to the katana already in Europe, I don't see why they wouldn't like the shape, katanas were also not heavier than European swords.
@yokai1235
Ай бұрын
@@eagle162 when you compare with a sword of the same length like a arming sword the katana is heavier with similar weight similar to a longsword or iven some great sword that have longer blades than a katana
@eagle162
Ай бұрын
@@yokai1235all right to save me some time see myth 5. "November 04, 2019 Japanese Swords "Mythbusting" - Part 1"
@eagle162
Ай бұрын
@@yokai1235all right see myth 5. "Japanese Swords "Mythbusting" - Part 1"
@the_infinexos
Ай бұрын
Sounds to me like the "katanas bad" memers know just as little as the "katanas good" weebs
@pharohscollection3730
Ай бұрын
Crucible steel laughing:
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
*looks at scientific studies of medieval crucible steel, including from places of high reputation like Toledo* about that...
@vladdracula2643
Ай бұрын
Katana Hype bad. Katana is fine for its niche.
@riothead1240
Ай бұрын
Spring steel good.
@alexandrecharles5941
Ай бұрын
Don't you mean "katana meme unfolded"??
@DarkraiDiety
Ай бұрын
A katana is a great sword until the other guy wears plate armor instead of paper. Edit: Can you guys argue about knights vs samurais next?
@proxy90909
Ай бұрын
Pretty sure that applies to all swords, no sword is "cutting through plate" like an anime
@aperson9973
Ай бұрын
Although, in this particular situation, I wouldn't think the katana would be quite as good as a longsword for pommel strikes, which I think would typically be the go to against plate if you have a sword.
@brocksteele7475
Ай бұрын
"This hammer is terrible at driving screws."
@eagle162
Ай бұрын
They were used against plate armor and did well, you go through the gaps, the same way you are a long sword and even with knights you can actually find images of them using single edge blades instead of the stereotypical longsword.
@eagle162
Ай бұрын
@@aperson9973katanas have different pommels and were used for pommel strikes. However this was not the go to move against plate armor using a longsword, it was to thrust, even with using a Pommel strike the only good option is the head which was to stun your opponent and then finish him off with a thrust.
@kaelell4697
Ай бұрын
nice hat buddy
@agent-yl7gm
Ай бұрын
Can we agree that compare to modern hight quality steel the steel made for long sword and katana were trash
@BAGELMENSK
Ай бұрын
It's not the steel, it's the smith. You might say the Japanese built their blades in a cave, with a box of scraps. Furthermore its not the blade, its the wielder, the real question is how knights and samurai wouldve fought each other and who would have held the advantage in technique, training, etc.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
Hey, that first thing you said is both incredibly sus, and incredibly easy to refute.
@yapflipthegrunt4687
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVance It was an Iron Man reference.
@MarcusVance
Ай бұрын
Yes. How does that change how it was used in this context?@@yapflipthegrunt4687
@yapflipthegrunt4687
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVance It's a joke, and clearly an exaggeration. OP is wrong, but I'm a pedantic dick.
@AnotherViewBot
Ай бұрын
@@MarcusVance How is it sus? Is this some kind of bigotry of low expectations on your end?
@bigfella23729
Ай бұрын
please blink
@josebaturamos
Ай бұрын
Two things: The iron from Japan is bad, even they have recognized that, it does not have a good chemical composition and is inferior to that in China and Korea. And on the other hand, Japan never developed blast furnaces, they circumvented the problem instead of heating more intensely to purify it, repeatedly doing the process of condensing it, which is a partial solution.
@FemboyPrince
16 күн бұрын
Katanas were shitty swords for anything outside of Eastern Cultures.
@MarcusVance
16 күн бұрын
That is an interesting counter to the scientific articles and data mentioned.
@VoidySan
Ай бұрын
I looove katana, they are SO FRESH, but like, bro. Baby guard, single edged blade, less effective for thrust attacks, like it just don't win against, say, an arming sword. We all know flails with chains longer than the handle are the real winners though 👹👹👹👹
@osmacar5331
Ай бұрын
Uk iron was pretty shit, we just had good metallurgy. The katana is ok, has to be used in specific manner so vesitility, and thus combat utility is very low. Hence my aversion to it, low utility is pretty damn bad, hyper specialisation is just bad.
@mayday343
Ай бұрын
Corpo
@SeanCrosser
Ай бұрын
Yeah Marcus Vance is being paid by Big Katana to make all this katana propaganda
@Zelmel
Ай бұрын
But hooooo boy never point out to a katana-obsessed weeb that ultimately it's a sword and a weapon and is designed for the specific purpose of killing people. Some of them get REALLY upset at that.
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
that's... that's literally what every sword is made for, and the katana is exaggerated as the ultimate manslayer, i doubt anyone will argue with you on basic fact that.
@Zelmel
Ай бұрын
@@user-do8ot1mu6c You'd think. I've gotten into fights online with people who claim that they're primarily a spiritual thing and are made for XYZ cultural reasons instead of primarily being swords that are a tool for killing people. It is always a very weird conversation with more than a tint of uncomfortable (for me) Orientalism from the other side.
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
@@Zelmel right, i forget humanities intelligence can only ever be matched by it's idiocy. there can definitely be people like that who are not even trolling.
@user-do8ot1mu6c
Ай бұрын
i can understand people liking katanas, there very beautiful compared to other sword designs, but when we are talking about practical use, they are not the best there is. edit: i love them too, but let's try not to exaggerate there ability yeah?
@Raw_Combat
Ай бұрын
I feel like this meme actually offended him
@Romuluz369
Ай бұрын
Katanas were excellent weapons, especially for the time. Well made, and quite strong. Longswords, and ANY OTHER SWORDS made of quality steel will have similar properties. Katanas were special for their time just because most people were still using iron, and the traditional process for making a katana happened to creat steel of various types based on how mucb carbon ended up trapped in the iron. Folding the steel helped make that carbon content uniform. Relax people, we know steel better now. Its just another material. The use of 2 types of steel is absolutely a good idea considering the limitations they had but its not at all necessary anymore.
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