This was fun. Pretty much agree with all your placements. I think the only one I'd adjust would be Floi. I'd drop him down to Fortitude. His Loremaster rule is fun, and can be valuable in certain situations, but I find you generally cannot afford the loss of a combat hero to take him. Not only that but his shenanigans are situational. I've played with him in many game and didn't really ever need to use Loremaster. I think Durin would be Legend tier if the Horn of Zirakzigil was an optional choice worth x points. Even if you assigned that item a value of 20 points, he'd shoot up to Legend if you didn't take it and paid 140 for him. He's not a killer, but if you play the army well he should almost never die. So you deny your opponent break and leader kill. Makes it hard for them to win. Yay defence!
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching Don, we need to get you on as a guest sometime! I guess I looked at it from the opposing side of Floi, as I've never used him myself but played against him plenty and he's always a pain! I never get to use my most fun model, so perhaps I'm biased in that way. Totally agree, Durin would be so much more viable and not broken at 130-140 points. -Richard
@donbarnett7137
11 ай бұрын
Would love to. Any time. Floi certainly can be a major pain at times.
@_ccann
11 ай бұрын
You guys really mangled the rules on taking Floi. You can absolutely take Gimli and Floi together.
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Yeah I've seen it done at Nova and I agree with that call. All we were saying is the wording is not the most clear, not the only time that's happened in the ruleset. -Richard
@mattrondeau2
11 ай бұрын
On Durin, he's expensive, but once you take all those less expensive heroes who added together do what he does, you're likely paying more than you would if you just got Durin on his own. Durin is an absolute killer in combat and when you add in his Hearthguard, there are very few things that will stand against that. Plus they have bodyguard on a D9 3 wound hero with his unique save and great combat stats. I'd say he's in Fortitude because you get so many little things with him and the hearthguard. He isn't in the league of say a Boromir CotWT who is arguably the best hero in the game, but I do think he gets shafted pretty hard through no real fault of his own. His biggest weaknesses (his low speed comes to mind) is really an army wide weakness for KoKD/Moria. Plus on a casual side it's fun to just chuck a dwarf king into a blob of enemies and just see them melt haha EDIT: Also Floi's restriction on hero selection is really dumb. Really feels like the LoTR dwarves got the shaft compared to the Hobbit ones
@sjins1poolboy698
11 ай бұрын
One of my best tournament moments was Durin killing Suladan on a horse first turn of lords of battle, and then later Durin with a horde of hearthguard one shot a mumuk. Fair to say I think very highly of him. Also his horn is a god end against terror armies since your almost never failing. And who can forget his magic hat to keep him alive forever! 🤣
@obicproductions890
11 ай бұрын
It was an absolute blast coming on for a few episodes. Its good to know that there are so many Durin supporters amongst your audience haha. Thanks for the opportunity! -Alisher
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Great having you on, Alisher! We've never taken as much backlash from a hero rating before 😂 so I think you got the W here. -Richard
@nateadams1412
11 ай бұрын
love this video keep this content up!
@Corppi22
11 ай бұрын
One thing about Vault Wardens which people seem to completely overlook is to NOT use them as a team. Instead you use the spears to make you heroes more reliable and have the shields at the ends of the battleline as roadblocks. Its a really solid way to make your heroes like Balin or Dwarf King not botch their combats all the time, or say make it more reliable to go for a clutch Heroic Combat. As for the shields the ends of a battleline or blocking a chokepoint makes full use of their D9, your average S4 hero cant kill them reliably and even when surrounded S3 chaff cant put them down. Really annoying if trying to attack a dwarf flank.
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
That's a good point, makes a lot of sense!
@giraffediety2477
11 ай бұрын
The Kingdom of Moria list restrictions are all over the place. Floi has his restrictions, but the FAQed Balin and Floi benefit from Oin special rule (but not Gimli). Who is supposed to be in this list? Wtf
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
It's a mess indeed but no one complaining because it's not a top tier army 😅 -Richard
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
As far as i know you can play all the named heros of Kindom of Moria together.
@MrShortie82
11 ай бұрын
@@intothewestpodcastnot a top tier list? This faction is incredible, just noone seems to play to their strengths... spamming regular dwarf warriors with shields, 3rd bows, a ballista or 2, and double kings champion and you can force almost every other army to come towards you... making their mobilty not an issue, my 800point list has no named characters, 2 kings champion, a king, 2 ballista and has 46models in the list... its extremely hard to get through😊
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
@MrShortie82 Fair play, I definitely think it has potential but I just feel like the mobility issues hinder the army in several scenarios so I think while it doesn't struggle to get wins, it's hard to win a big tournament which often times you need to go undefeated in 5-6 games! But I do think you are playing the list the right way, high numbers with ballista(s)! -Richard
@muesliman100
11 ай бұрын
@@MrShortie82 well maybe two-thirds of the scenarios require you to not sit back because of some type of objective so forcing opponents to come to you is not that useful if you have to move towards them as well
@Jewus19
6 ай бұрын
all Durin needs is for his items to be OPTIONS. Just imagin the witch king coming baked in with ALL OF HIS OPTIONS from the getgo. Noone would play that trash xD. So if the horn, the ring and the crown would be upgrades, you would simply never see them. it would enable him to flash out his troop numbers and that is desperatly needed. I dont need a 6+ feel no pain, never comes into play. I dont need a warhorn on a fearless dwarf in a warband full of fearless dwarves. The priority is nice but only a gadget. He would be like 100 pts without these items xD now THAT would be a bargain! Or make it 120, still!
@intothewestpodcast
6 ай бұрын
Great idea! I agree, a cheaper Durin would make him so much more viable! You're totally right that his rules are not very necessary and anti-synergistic.
@tacquitotim570
11 ай бұрын
Finally been waiting for this one!
@tacquitotim570
11 ай бұрын
Nvm I Insta regret this comment 10 minutes into the vid. Minor hero for Durin!!? This has to be a marketing tactic to piss off all the dwarf players in the world ngl
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Lol it evened out to a Fortitude, that's fair right? Surely, you don't agree with Alisher that he's a top 5 hero... -Richard
@tacquitotim570
11 ай бұрын
Definitely low legend, nah not top 5 heroes, that’s a stretch. The Minor hero rating got me salty hahah. He is definitely one of the most reliable hitters on foot in the game though, so nothing was mentioned about his damage output. Being F6 means he won’t have to trade Might as often and he has a lot of built in reliability to win fights.If he loses a fight an Elven lord trying to damage a D9 Dwarf King is not easy. Also if you stick Durin in a middle objective, that’s a sure win. But I think you guys were pretty harsh with scoring him. I agree he’s not the most point efficient model, but within a Khazad Dum vacuum he does a fair bit for the army without direct troop buffs.
@kaprii351
9 ай бұрын
hi great video. maybe you can answer me a question concerning the dwarf balista. Shooting at Cavalary: is there an in the way roll required for horse or rider? Or is the whole model hit?
@intothewestpodcast
9 ай бұрын
Thanks! Small siege weapons take In The Way checks based on the final path of the shot. So I would say no, it would be the target only (horse or rider) though it would almost always be the rider since targets are instantly knocked prone so horses would instantly be removed, only things like wargs could stick around. -Richard
@matthewhoey4386
11 ай бұрын
I am currently putting an army together for both factions.
@AleInBywater
11 ай бұрын
Is khazad dum/k.o moria competitive? Never seen them win anything.
@donbarnett7137
11 ай бұрын
They can podium, but I've only ever seen them win once. They just can't accumulate enough vp's, so normally loose out on tie breakers even if they win all their games.
@Oldghyll
11 ай бұрын
I really enjoy the dwarf ballista. At 60 points, it poses a scary threat for big heroes and can shut down sections of the board if it is positioned correctly.
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Agreed - I think they’re pretty underrated. Even if you’re not rolling many hits with them, they can really affect the way your opponent deploys and moves. -Charles
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
Ori is acctuly quite funn. His ruels also work with Balin and Floi. So Balin gets a better version of blood and Glori. And he is only 55p and can lead 12
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
My bad. Missed that in the FAQ. -Charles
@GollumGamers
11 ай бұрын
A minor from Charles and Richard!?? #justicefordurin
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
That IS justice! Lol -Richard
@FlowerFinni
11 ай бұрын
Ori's chronicler special rule does work with Balin and Flói. It's in the army of hobbit FAQ. As a Khazad-Dûm player I strongly disagree with a lot of the placements. Arguing for putting Durin in minor feels like you are meming tbh. I feel bad for Alisher. You could see the light go out of his eyes when he realised this was not the tier list he expected.
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Maybe I was a tad harsh, a bit of a subtle shot to our friends at the Durin Show but I don't think the points we made were too far off and Fortitude is fair. He's a great thematic profile, just not super competitive. Haha hopefully that wasn't the case and Alisher still enjoyed doing the episode, I'd like to think it was because it was the 3rd episode recording that night and energy levels were lower. Nothing wrong with MESBG disagreements among friends. -Richard
@FlowerFinni
11 ай бұрын
@@intothewestpodcast I would have put him in valour myself, but I see your points. Haha I hope so aswell. Always enjoy his takes on the game. And I'm looking forward to your next video.
@obicproductions890
11 ай бұрын
Here I thought I was being invited to sing the praises of the dwarves but in the end I found out it was all a trap and I was like a lamb being led to slaughter... Perhaps its time for Durin to come back into my tourney cycle haha. - Alisher
@FlowerFinni
11 ай бұрын
@@obicproductions890 I think it's time. I've had a lot of success with them myself recently. Had a tournament last week where Durin single-handedly won half of my games.
@obicproductions890
11 ай бұрын
@@FlowerFinni I have an 800 one day event next weekend that I was going to take Mirkwood to but I may have to switch it up and take a Durin list.
@markushammond982
11 ай бұрын
My oh my oh my… idk where to start! I think I need to dust Durin off. Minor hero is worse than insulting my mother 😮
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
We would never, Markus! -Richard
@TheDurinShow
11 ай бұрын
Lol … I’ll translate this entire tier list video for everyone. “It doesn’t fit my play style and I don’t know how to use him so therefore it sucks”. 😂😂😂 At least Alisher knows but you could see him give up trying to argue right out of the gate. FYI. Floi can absolutely be taken with Gimli and the champions. -Mitchell
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
I guess if you think something sucks it just means that you don't know how to use it. I'll retract my past statements and going forward my stance is: All profiles are equally good in this game and can be taken competitively! -Richard
@TheDurinShow
11 ай бұрын
@@intothewestpodcast not everything is competitive… but come on…. Durin is not a minor tier. Lol
@obicproductions890
11 ай бұрын
What can men (or I suppose in this case dwarves) do against such reckless hate Mitchel lol. Who knows maybe ill have the opportunity to avenge Durin very shortly... - Alisher
@TheDurinShow
11 ай бұрын
@@obicproductions890 I know right? Haha well awesome! Can’t wait to see him hitting the top tables again! -Mitchell
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
Iron Guard is overcosted. They should be like 13p. So only Fortitude. Vault warden is Legend tier, but you have to protect them with other troops. People always say that Kazad-dum has no spears, but forget that they have some of the best in the game And regular Kazad Guard is Legend. They are insane for only 11p.
@intothewestpodcast
11 ай бұрын
Agreed on Khazads for the longest time, but lately with Easterlings, Beornings, etc there’s a lot more F5 armies around that make them a bit less scary. Vault wardens are very good, but I also think they require an experienced player to get the most out of them. High skill ceiling, if you will. -Charles
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
@@intothewestpodcast i think vault warden teams are not that difficult to play. You use them like most normal battlelines. Only that you have F4 S4 and D9. The only thing diffrent is that you need some normal troops at the flank so the Spears don't get attacked
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
@@intothewestpodcast yes but the F4 was never the strenght of the Kazad Guard. Also they have a very good profile against Beornings. S4 and D7 is perfect agains S4 and D4. Bodyguards against the Bears.
@muesliman100
11 ай бұрын
@@grimgrauman7650the hard part is protecting the spears while moving up (only D6 makes them a very nice target for S2 bows) and something like Minas tirith can easily kill 4 foe spears if you just put them behind the Shields and at the front of your line. Protecting them and yet making sure they catch up to each other and are protected from the back makes them harder to play. But that is also because the basic warrior options are really easy to play (dwarf warriors with shields or dwarf bows and khazad guards are really survivable)
@grimgrauman7650
11 ай бұрын
@@muesliman100 you just put another line of warriors in front to protect them from shooting. It is a bit more difficult.
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