Wow, this video has been a mission to get out! The video was fully done, then Trace Velo dropped his video and I noticed some differences in our groupsets. Then I spotted something in the comments of his video which also changed the direction of this video. Wow... Anyway, here for you all to enjoy, warts and all!
@TraceVelo
Жыл бұрын
Right then dude, LOADS to unpack here! Firstly, wicked episode, and thanks for the shoutout! It’s been SUPER interesting comparing notes on this, and really appreciate the honesty with this one! When new stuff like this comes out it’s always such a steep learning curve. I mean in my video I claimed the brakes were post mount, which is COMPLETELY false, so can definitely sympathise with the braking issue you faced! What I would say though is that reflecting on my process, I do have a tendency to give these Chinese brands quite a lot of slack. In general, you are not paying top dollar, so in my experience this just part of the trade-off. BUT you are totally right in regard to the massive kink in the brake hose on my set. I’m willing to let it slide, but in reality, it should never have been shipped out like that. Also, the fact there are literally zero instructions or documentation included, again I’ve come to expect this with many of these cheaper options, but this would never be acceptable from any of the bigger brands. Plus to be honest, the price I paid for my set, although still cheaper than the competition, £360 is coming _dangerously_ close to Shimano 105 R7020 territory… Anyway, I cannot wait to get my set installed on the next build and see if anything matches your experience here. I have the same IceTech rotors, and some carbon spoke wheels, so really interested to see if the clearance issues are also present. Also the shifting issue you describe, where the shift paddle doesn’t ‘return home’ fully, I have this EXACT same issue… Testing these in parallel is going to be interesting that’s for sure! Roll on 2023!!!
@Pav_1983
Жыл бұрын
Lack of oil in Trace Velo's set may be because it is a chemical mixture. L-Twoo would have to have 'Only representative' in the EU/GB to comply with REACH.
@Kevin-lw1kq
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this. I'm in the US and dabble with Chinese parts through AliExpress as a hobbyist. I'm inspired by you and Luke to try these new group sets, but between the manufacturers' undocumented revisions and confusing listings from resellers, it's hard to know if I'm getting an old set with the issues you've uncovered or the latest and greatest. I'm also entirely unconvinced my concerns would reach other customers if I were to leave a negative review on an AliExpress reseller's listing. I for one would love to see unmistakable revisioning in the product name or design (1.0, 1.1 etc). Hopefully this feedback loop you are building can lead to better overall experience for cyclists everywhere!
@shannonparker7404
Жыл бұрын
@@TraceVelo Bravo Luke! This will be good.
@mireia3208
Жыл бұрын
@@TraceVelo After adjusting the free stroke screw in mine like @ChinaCycling mentioned, I stopped having this paddle not returning and blocking the downshift issue. I will likely go for a ride tomorrow with mine, to see if the braking settles down (for now it is so-so, but rotors and pads being new could explain it) and also the shifter (not as precise as I would like it to be for now). Another silly 'after mounting' issue: the downshift lever has a elongated hole in the ruber hoods for it to move. Well, after putting the handlebar tape, it slightly creates a bulge in that part and it slightly interferes with that paddle. So silly !!
@PeakTorque
Жыл бұрын
I just want these Chinese companies to slow down. Please do not not release unfinished, pre-production products AT ALL and use paying customers as a massive Beta program. Whats more confusing, is that they don't often value the beta feedback, they just swerve the issues. Joe, you and I both know this! They have the people, the know-how, the end to end production, its all in their favour! But the GO TO MARKET is often rushed, with various resellers and outlets making a quick buck, customers getting different revisions/rolling changes, all of which seriously damage their brands. At the moment this is what's stopping these brands from being taken seriously. Also big up to Shannon - towed me around the Beijing mountains for 3 days including an unforgettable night ride into a mountain home stay. Brilliant.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think we're on the same page. That's why I left this video with the "issue" in the edit. Although the issue is basically a non-issue after the grub screw adjustment, the inclusion of an instruction manual would have worked wonders. For lots of these companies testing = money and time. They can struggle with cash-flow, but I'm just saying the reason, it's not an excuse.
@pepessz32
Жыл бұрын
I'm not surprised, judging from Sensah empire who went into 4th iteration before it's really settled. I guess that's just how Chinese manufacturer works, as if they produce in "Sprint" way kind of framework, lol.
@Membrillo81
Жыл бұрын
There are many reasons why they operate the way they do. Depending on the company culture, management personality and background and other idiosyncrasies, they may check all of these reasons or only some of them. One is: they're usually paranoid about everyone wanting to steal their great ideas. They tend to keep development as secret as they can, even from employees that should have a say about the new products. They rush the products into the market for this reason and they don't think, or don't want to know, that the inevitable issues can hurt their brand reputation. They really believe that fixing the problems as the customers find them is good enough. It's appalling.
@slowcyclist4324
Жыл бұрын
I think….as much as the price point is enticing, I’ll just stick to the big brands. Pay peanuts, and you get monkeys.
@hkchew03
Жыл бұрын
@@pepessz32 At least Sensah issue is due to durablity which is harder to detect, and stiff left shifter due to deraileur tension doesn't make it impossible to use as well.
@warayupay84
Жыл бұрын
You, Luke, PT, and Hambini are the Beatles of the cycling world. Keep it up and happy new year to all!
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Do I get to be Ringo? Merry Christmas and a happy new year!
@Gregory_tottie
Жыл бұрын
@tracevelo is prob Ringo because he wasn’t part of the cool wall. He should be though. He’s cool.
@ricardorusso1462
Жыл бұрын
small problems aside, this still feels like a game changer. I am confident most of these issues will be solved in a few months
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I feel like a few months down the road and this is golden.
@hkchew03
Жыл бұрын
As much as it being perfected overtime, its still a major overlook on the brake sponginess and stuck shifting lever blade, no way they could have missed it during development and testing. If someone can point out the issue and replicate it easily, the testing team should have caught the issue before the final release, unless this is just a one off case of bad QC.
@edwoodsnowden
Жыл бұрын
Looks like a half baked unfinished product to be honest, years off........
@trailfork7815
Жыл бұрын
I wish, their mtb sets have been plagued by issues for years
@belverticale
Жыл бұрын
I hope Sensah come up with a response and bring out their own hydraulic set as I really love their 3 in 1 shifters. Here's hoping. Few teething issues with this Ltwoo perhaps but let's keep an eye on the big picture - the rise of these Chinese drive chains has been meteoric and the products are getting very close to the big established brands. Another year or so and Shimano will regret bringing out a version of 105 that costs 1800 bucks.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I think the future is bright, but we can't give them a get out of jail free card. They still have to be accountable for every error. The future is good though.
@QuickQuips
Жыл бұрын
I'd be more optimistic about microshift trying that. I haven't heard of similar qc issues from them, though they tend to be more conservative with tech maybe because it's Taiwan.
@DanieleOttorogo
Жыл бұрын
reach out sensah on their store and they told me that their hydraylic groupset will be released in March this year
@jakou31
Жыл бұрын
@@DanieleOttorogo Oooohhh that's hot !
@thispod
Жыл бұрын
The lever preload apparently also moves the lever away from the shifter. This should prevent any interference in the paddle return fixing the issue with the thumb button being unusable
@tillman5529
Жыл бұрын
I hope he will confirm this 🤞 if you are right that would be awesome
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@tillman5529
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling ok. Thanks for clarifying
@olp1994
10 ай бұрын
i think he meant the grub screw on the shift pedal, not the preload grub screw on the brake lever.
@Membrillo81
Жыл бұрын
Without watching the video (still not online) I want to say one thing: do not buy new products from small bike brands. Unless you do not mind to pay for being a prototype tester or you are a youtuber and want to make a video. I worked in two Taiwanese cycling brands (small type) and they do not test shit before launch.
@dogukantosun5547
Жыл бұрын
Canyon doesn't test it either (Aeroad). It doesn't matter if it's big or small. You should not buy a cycling product as soon as it comes out. Wait until the issues are resolved.
@Membrillo81
Жыл бұрын
@@dogukantosun5547 Yes, there's a lot of examples from big brands too. But given the number of products launched by them and the actual problems the products give, I tend to think they usually do some kind of testing. At least something more than installing the component in the factory and, if the bike doesn't explode standing still, give it the green light. Which was mainly what I saw. Anyway, I totally agree with you. Don't buy recently released products.
@janeblogs324
Жыл бұрын
6:22 the angle of the parallelogram makes me happy. Older shimano were straight and had inconsistent tension, once the cable stretched it fails to upshift on some gears
@SgtFinaldo
Жыл бұрын
Awesome to see you and @TraceVelo comparing. I'd still think about pulling the trigger on these to replace my old Force HRD set.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I have force HRD on my G2 Mullet gravel bike. I think they're very comparable. Maybe the L-TWOO has higher overall braking power, but it's hard to compare apples to apples with different brake pad compounds, etc.
@SgtFinaldo
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling I'd also add that, over the period of 4 years, I think the overall hydraulics of the callipers and hoods are worn out now, due to hard use and the DOT being quite abrasive. This Lan Twoo system looks to be the right ticket.
@tomaldous5641
Жыл бұрын
If the big 3 groupset manufacturers released a groupset with this many problems they'd be castigated and rightly so. Clearly there has been not nearly enough testing taking place before release. Right now CRC are selling 105 R7020 disc groupsets for £449 so for not much more money you get a great groupset where you're not the beta tester. So there's not even the value prospect with this groupset.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
You're not wrong. But, these are the advantages of big companies. Shimano can take $1 from every groupset sold and put it into a huge R&D department with a whole team of people testing 100s of test groupsets before launch. These smaller brands just don't have the resources to do that.
@bkflex55
Жыл бұрын
That frame is gorgeous. Popping color, so nice!
@2wheelsrbest327
Жыл бұрын
Well done Joe for great info and also for being so honest in admitting your mistake.
@JibbaJabber
Жыл бұрын
@27:20 Did you notice that after the lever stroke adjustment, the gap between the brake and gear levers increased significantly. I'm thinking this might also resolve your other shifting issue since there's less opportunity for close proximity jamming. Noice investigation 👍😀👍
@overthetarget9401
Жыл бұрын
Sure looked like it, might already have solved the problem.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@JibbaJabber
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling That's strange. I can see that after he gave it a few pumps, the gap still remained!? Then again, maybe he was too gentle. Anyhow, try putting some 'dry lube' like silicone spray between the sticking parts. Keep up the good work 👍💯
@Bear-Jew
Жыл бұрын
In short, quality control and inconsistency issues. Typical for Chinese products. Looks like they are selling prototype-ish parts that are not a final and refined product. Therefore different customers are getting different quality items. It's a bit like buying early-release games, buy those at least coming with a warning. Don't get me wrong. I am rooting for L TWOO. Bike parts prices are atrocious at the moment and we really could do with something cheap and reliable in terms of groupsets. Especially now when the new Shimano 105 cost a fortune and weighs a ton. But those quality problems are nothing new. For so many years now, most Chinese companies can't wrap their heads around it.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I think the main fault was a lack of an instruction manual.
@mikefreitas1331
Жыл бұрын
I have to say that I AM GLAD that the fact of living/working there hasn't disturb your capability of speaking the truth (hurts who ever hurts) and sharing with us. I've seen Luke's video and even if he bought the upgraded version of yours it has issues. Just don't understand how come they "send" you a groupset not upgraded and have no reliable assistance for it... YOU ABOVE ALL, WHO FOR ME YOU ARE THE CHINA CYCLING SPOKESMAN!!!
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Yeah... I am sometimes pretty confused! But hopefully this video shows that I don't hide anything and I show you guys exactly what I see! Thanks for tuning in Mike!
@mikefreitas1331
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling Of course you don't. And that's what i went for... to point out you honesty ans transparency!!! Keep on bringing more videos of Cycling material for the people (after christmas break of course). Happy holidays for everybody
@Rowdyness11
Жыл бұрын
Great content as always Joe! - Hey... Did I see that shifter move away from the brake lever when/after you adjusted that front allen grub screw? Maybe the 'shifter-return' issue is now solved too?
@lm2906
Жыл бұрын
I have high hopes for this group. I really hope Ltwoo solve these issues.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I think the issues will all be ironed it...
@PeakTorque
Жыл бұрын
But why was it released like this. That's the mindset issue, and that needs to change.
@IvorGreen49
Жыл бұрын
Understand the issues associated with releasing unfit goods, but is iterative product development necessarily a bad thing? Never quite understood why it is seen as the golden standard for software, but discouraged with physical systems (other than potential QC complications)
@davidgarza2267
Жыл бұрын
@@IvorGreen49because you can’t just send out a downloadable patch to fix physical items.
@abedfo88
Жыл бұрын
@@PeakTorque joe public is just a massive beta test?
@cycleriderroy
Жыл бұрын
Recently I got their GRT Groupset for review, lets see how that works
@PatrickLino
Жыл бұрын
"Why don't you just go home!? That's your home!" - Happy Gilmore
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Hahahhhaahaha.
@davew782
Жыл бұрын
Interestingly I've had exactly the same "sticky shifter" issue on 2 different, brand new bikes with Campanolo Ekar (which the thumb shifter design apes), and my partner had the same problem with hers. Never heard of this in reviews yet but we were 3 for 3 so not surprised a new Chinese group might suffer a similar problem.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Hah! I like that you've never heard about it in reviews... shows how thorough the typical "review" is. 🤐
@sebastianm2381
Жыл бұрын
Campagnolo Ekar has Reach Adjust screws in both the brake lever and the shift paddle for this exact reason. You can easily set it up so that the shift paddle doesn't touch the brake lever. It's all very well documented in the manual.
@hockysa
Жыл бұрын
Can’t wait for the next iteration of these China group sets. Glad there’s competition to keep the big brands honest
@TheGotoGeek
Жыл бұрын
The brake adjustment is called free stroke, which is very common on higher level MTB brakes. Looks like it came all the way out, which is how you're supposed to do the initial bleed. Something that's become common is to treat customers like testers: ship a product, and then make rolling changes based on feedback. This is almost (but not really) tolerable with software. With hardware it's a problem. Shimano doesn't do that, but then again they have a lot more resources than L-Twoo or Sensah. As they design and build more products they'll get better at getting the product right the first time, but for now it really seems to be a case of "wait six months before purchasing."
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Never used high end MTB brakes, haha. But yeah some instructions would be nice.
@itstheterranaut
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this very honest review, and looping back to Ltwoo for answers. They strike me as an engineering company at heart, with sales and marketing tacked on and very much a secondary function. Its often the case, isn't it, with companies building a rival product into an established market. As it happens, my set should be here within the week (Scotland), and I'm hoping I'm getting the updated version. Will let you know. (Also, hope you and your loved ones stay well)
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
An accurate description!
@jonathan_f2
Жыл бұрын
I hope LTwoo continues to improve their mechanical shift levers. For example their GR9 1x gravel shifters still feel like they could be improved with ergonomic improvements. The rubber hoods gave me a palm blister and there's no way to adjust brake lever pull using a hex wrench. Though LTwoo shifting in my opinion feels a bit more precise compared to Sensah. Plus it's so fun to upshift with the thumb shifter and hearing that mechanical clanking sound!
@jason200912
Жыл бұрын
You should get wear gloves or put tape over the hoods
@Membrillo81
Жыл бұрын
This is consistent with my experience working with Taiwanese companies. Launching half-cooked products and making changes along the way. They are also super proud because they are solving issues and improving the product, wtf. No user manuals too, a classic. And about you´re not getting help from them about the issue with the lever travel, well, probably the person who replied to you has not even seen the lever, let alone used it or being teached about its details.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Hahhaa. You're not wrong! I'm not sure what the reason is for this attitude, but for sure it's holding many of them back. But... thankfully, there seems to be solutions for these problems...we shall see!
@cjohnson3836
Жыл бұрын
I'm fine with no print manual so long as there's something online, and in multiple languages. I can go to Shimano's website and get diagrams to completely tear down everything they make with part numbers to replace components (although no one stocks individual bits so you have to track down supply, or hit up hardware stores for things like o-ring seals) But having end users doing the product testing is abhorrent.
@Membrillo81
Жыл бұрын
@@cjohnson3836 Abhorrent, and common.
@simple4586
Жыл бұрын
@@cjohnson3836 Shimano and other well known western brands tends to have iron wall qc. Testing to the limits and even be conservative with their recommendations on the equipment's limits. The only company I've liked from them Taiwanese' ,and had no real issue, is Microshift.
@sepg5084
Жыл бұрын
@@Membrillo81 that's what people get by buying cheap alternatives. Most of the time, you get what you pay for.
@weiwenng8096
Жыл бұрын
The concept you're talking about is usually called bite point, contact point, or free stroke adjustment. I think that most hydraulic groups have it, although SRAM Rival AXS and Shimano 105 don't (not sure about Campy Centaur). Speaking of Campy, their hydraulic groups also have a hole in the lever blade like the L-Twoo levers. For Campy, that grub screw will adjust the lever reach, not the bite point.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I only have one other Hyraulic groupset bike, and that is SRAM Force HRD 1x... I don't think it has this free stroke adustment...but... yeah < i feel like it make sense for groupsets to have this feature.
@larryt.atcycleitalia5786
Жыл бұрын
Just another company letting the customers do their R&D. Sell the stuff cheap so plenty will pony-up to experiment with the junk while the makers gather feedback and make changes. Respectable operations do their R&D themselves with paid test riders and mechanized testing machines, but that costs money that is reflected in the price. As they always say "You don't always get what you pay for, but you pretty much NEVER get what you don't pay for." But hey, SRAM's making plenty of profits so what do I know?
@stevetreinen6070
Жыл бұрын
Hi Joe, thanks I trust your opinions. I started riding Elves a couple years ago based partially on your opinion, been great. I'll try this group when I can buy it at a fairer price. I'm also going to check out the SERT frame. Thanks for what you do and stay healthy.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Always love it when someone is having success using my suggestions. Keep on truckin' Steve!
@qwertyazerty2137
8 ай бұрын
I just installed my ltwoo GR9 hydraulic groupset and I am disappointed. The shifting resistance is appauling. I used ltwoo's supplied cable and a jagwire housing. The cable looks good quality. Copper-colored so maybe it's coated with something. It's definitely polished and smooth so maybe it's the cheap housing or the fact that I routed it on the front side of the handlebar where the horizontal bent is bigger forcing the housing to bent more. The levers have another groove to route the housing on the back side of the handle bar for a less bent of the housing so I must give it a try. But the worst thing is that the left lever bleed port screw is tightened so hard that it won't budge. I stripped and rounded its head trying to loosen it and now it's stuck forever. Suprisingly I was able to bleed the system using just one syringe plugged into the caliper so from top to bottom. But anyway I am waiting for the seller's response and his solution becasue this lever qualifies for a replacement. Other drawbacks: 1. Rubber of the hoods is slippery although it has a matte feel to it and has a texture. Shimano's hoods are way more grippy. 2. To save manufacturing costs, for the left lever they use a lever from a 2x groupset (maybe rx) because it has guiding groves for the shifter housing under the hood. They simply just don't put the cable ratchet pulley and shifitng paddle and trigger. That's ok but without this ratchert, there's a gaping hole underneath the lever where all the gunk and dust may build up. Also while on the hoods having your index and middle fingers wrapped around the hood, you can feel that hole and it's edges under the fingers tips which is uncomfortable. Especially when you grasp firmly while pedalling hard out of the saddle uphill. How much would it cost them to desing a simple plate cover with an i.e. elastic latch similar to those of battery compartments in tv remote controllers? 3. Downshift trigger is in awkward position. Its position and overall lever shape is heavily inspired by Campagnolo Ekar levers which apparently have the same problem which Paul from Mapdec Cycles reported in one of his reels. On the hoods to reach it you have to sort of lift your hand and twist it inwards. also when pressing down the trigger, if you have your fingers wrapped underneath the lever, they are right under the trigger and obstruct its downward travel so you also have to move them away. I would expect the trigger to be place more towards the front of the lever just like it is in ltwoo's mechanical road levers like r9, r7, r5... Also, it offers up to 3-4 downshift with single push. I think this is unnecessary, because it causes excessive unwanted downshifts. It could be justified in the road RX groupset in finish line sprint situations, but this is a gravel groupset so I think it's pointless and useless. On the plus side, the trigger is ergonomic and right were you'd look for it while on the drops. 4. Lever instllation is troublesome. The bolt clamp is located in the center of the lever body so the vertical part with the master cylinder obstructs access to it to an extent. Also, the bolt is very hard to reach becuse the rubber of the hood is very tight and does not peel off enough to expose the bolt. You need to have an extended hex wrench with a ball-head end and prefferably with an attachable handle. With a standard-sized wrench it will be very hard to reach the bolt. For comparison, in Shimano levers the bolt is on the outer side of the lever body and it only takes to slide the wrench under the hood to reach it. 5. The rear derailleur isa bit too big. I've installed it on an Accent Furious Pro frame and noticed that if I loosen the b-tention screw too much, the front of the derailleur where the clutch is located touches the chainstay and wedges on it preventing normal operation. Also, the part of the derailleur with this clutch is visibally made out of some kind of composite material, probably based on nylon. It's definitely not metal. The rest of the parts, like the pantograph, pulley cage are indeed metal. Unless you buy a version with a carbon pulley cage of course. Pros: 1. Overall quality is good. The logo imprints are good. They are thick and have a nice sort of brushed aluminum texture. 2. The shape of the hoods and lever blades is ergonomic. They feel good under the fingers both on the hoods and on the drops. A this point I honestly do not recommend GR9. It's not worth the risk. I can recommend R5 because I have had these levers for two years now and they have not failed so far although the shifting resistance is also quite strong but not as strong as with these GR9 eventough I have the shifting cable routed along the front of the handlebar as well . The overall build quality and shifting is comparable to Shimano Sora.
@basedgodstrugglin
Жыл бұрын
Stay safe out there homie, really looking forward to what their updates fix and I wonder how it’ll be getting a replacement bit once their supply gets better
@DaveCM
Жыл бұрын
I think the problem is that they don't do a lot of R&D. It seems like they start sending them out and using the early customers as R&D. I guess it is a way to save money and get it into the market sooner.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
If they use 1% of their R&D budget to make "test" kits, that's probably like 15 kits. If Shimano use 1%, that's probably 1000 test kits.
@glennoc8585
Жыл бұрын
Seeing that a lot from Chinese suppliers from wheels to gears, chains etc. It's not good
@fluffymallowss4454
Жыл бұрын
I've noticed the shifting lever got more space between the brake lever when you adjusted the throw at the end of the video. Did it also eliminate the stuck shifting problem completely?
@CycOp
Жыл бұрын
The shift lever can be seen visibly moved out as the adjust screw is turned.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@edwoodsnowden
Жыл бұрын
So the moral of the Story is stick with Shimano for the moment! Shame but it looks like an unfinished product to me that should have NEVER been released to the public!
@deanokeano6386
Жыл бұрын
Looks like doing the free stroke adjustment gave more gap between the brake and gear levers, that may fix the sticky shifter issue mentioned earlier in the vid
@Bear-Jew
Жыл бұрын
1.8mm is a standard bike rotor thickness. The only exemption I know about is Magura brakes that use 2mm thick rotors, so not too hard to guess.
@nelsonglover3963
Жыл бұрын
Just sweeping statements with no data to back it up. Seems to be a theme
@Bear-Jew
Жыл бұрын
@@nelsonglover3963 What do you mean?
@varez93
Жыл бұрын
There are some touring bikes using Hope brakes with 3.2mm rotors (I one one).
@Bear-Jew
Жыл бұрын
@@varez93 I know about e-bikes using Hope 2.3mm rotor. Did you mean 2.3mm?
@neilmcgurk2227
Жыл бұрын
Looks like the brake adjustment also solved the shifting issue? From the video at the end, after adjustment there appears to be a gap between the levers, whereas before it looks like they are fouling.
@robertwhyte3435
Жыл бұрын
I saw the same thing. Commented before I read your comment. Like others have pointed out, it might be this is a good group set that needs better instructions.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@kelvindavison3314
Жыл бұрын
Great video and even better for you being so candid - like you, I've been hoping this can be a game changer and if nothing else a viable alternative to the established big three brands for groupsets. Out of interest what crankset and cassette did you use with this groupset and are you happy with them too? Keep up the good work!
@AlanWGMeraz
Жыл бұрын
Kinda funny how early adopters of this brands always end up as a testers of their products. Ill get a groupset when the prices go down
@scottcopper_1
Жыл бұрын
It looks like the pre-load adjustment of the brakes should also fix the sticky shifter paddle problem. You can actually see as the mechanic tightens the screw that the gap between shifter paddle and the brake lever gets larger so the shifter paddle might not get stuck up on the back of the brake lever anymore.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
The clip is a bit misleading. adjusting that screw moved the lever out of it's "home" position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back to it's "home" position where it's rubbing the shift paddle again. Fear not, there's more tinkering to be done!
@patrickjohnson2377
Жыл бұрын
Is this compatible with a Shimano 11s freehub body?
@tensiondechaine
Жыл бұрын
Let’s say it’s the first gen of Chinese Hydro and we all know how is it with 1st gen stuff 😅 Still very excited to watch your feedback. Take care
@WashichawbachaW
Жыл бұрын
The reason behind the exclusion of the hydraulic oil is the fire hazard restriction to these chemicals imposed in foreign countries. I think all flammable chemicals are subject to it as I myself also had several orders where the oil or grease is removed and seller confirmed it is customs policy. They are subject to a different customs permit etc.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I believe you're right.
@shepshape2585
Жыл бұрын
Glad you got the brake lever problem fixed and that it was simple to do. And yes, I agree that each batch of product should be the same, but that's where you and Trace Velo and others like you come in. You are the guinea pigs, which is why we love you. We all wait until you've gone through all the pains and product fixes, and when you finally tell us it's good to go, we put our money down. So while it's a huge pain in the butt for you, that's why you have so many subs, because you do the work we don't want to do. And thanks for that!
@domestique3954
Жыл бұрын
Awesome looking bike 🤙
@wtfiswiththosehandles
Жыл бұрын
Regarding oil in trace velo's video - it was most likely removed by seller to avoid airfreight restrictions.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
I agree.
@mireia3208
Жыл бұрын
Wow, thanks for the preload adjust trick. I was almost going to bleed my brakes again today because of the sponginess issue you mention. I bought my groupset from the seller that Tracevelo used too. In my case, with coupons and blablabla the price was okeish (320€ without taxes). I got however your copy of the groupset, without the RX label on the downshift button. I also did not get the hydraulic oil. The seller told me he was removing it because of shipping restrictions, and kindly gifted me with two good looking rotors (same as with tracevelo). Fair enough I think. My hydraulic hoses were fine (no kinks), but... My right shifter shift cable was not correctly inserted and it was generating a massive wrap inside the lever. For like a good couple of hours I thought my ratchet system was broken because it was not shifting through the 12 gears but there were jumps. It was also super stiff. There is also a screw that apparently controls de stiffness, it is located in the ratchet plate (you access it from the handlebar clamp side). I played with it and my shifter became suddenly so soft that I could barely notice the shifts (and it was not holding the biggest cogs positions). Turning it the other way made it much stiffer to a point comparable with what tracevelo reported. And I agree, this is the problem. The groupset, with its minor issues, seems to be very nicely made. The problem is NO real documentation, no technical documents, no information about spares or tuneable parts. I think they need to work on that (apart from unit-to-unit consistency and availability) to make it to the masses as sram, shimano and campy do. But otherwise I think they have a pretty good product in their hands. Also waiting to see what sensah will offer us :)
@mireia3208
Жыл бұрын
By the way, sram and shimano are not free of issues. I hate the 12s Shimano XTR rear derrailleur. Absolute waterproof-less garbage design. I managed to kind of fix it replacing some parts but I am sure it will fail again in less than a year. I might even buy a ltwoo or sensah to replace it. Rust and water just creep in like if the thing was not sealed at all, and the sort of solution people propose is to fully service it every other month. Not serious I think. And sram xx1 axs is no better with its impossible finicky adjustment. So yeah, no groupset is perfect.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment, it shines a lot of light. Yeah, I agree with everything you said. All of these small issues would be solved with at the very least a "quick start guide" that just says what each screw does. 🤣
@jesustapia4894
Жыл бұрын
Maybe the problems on brakes can be the hose, the hose like bh90 of shimano or the hose sram, are more stiffness.
@Zeben84
Жыл бұрын
Looks like the lever adjustement also fixed the gear shifter not comming back fully since they are not rubbing each other anymore !
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@Zeben84
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling :(
@FaigMir
Жыл бұрын
Будем ждать электронной версии что бы забыть о shimano и sram раз и навсегда
@janeblogs324
Жыл бұрын
When 2nd hand 15 year old 105 shifters are selling for $100-300 this whole group set is a game changer
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Yeah... cycling shouldn't be restricted to those with thousands of dollars in the bank.
@slowcyclist4324
Жыл бұрын
Indeed, cycling shouldn’t be restricted to those with thousands in the bank. The issue however, is that those without thousands in the bank think it their entitlement to ride bikes that costs in the thousands.
@WeRideSouth
Жыл бұрын
Rotors hitting the calipers: This screams: you haven't set your calipers on the frame right... have you tried any other configuration? "The lever problem" screams: a terrible bleed job. ps. that paint job is meh. please tell me you didn't do that to the Watly Ti bike.
@MTBScotland
Жыл бұрын
not cheap enough. Can get a full 105 disc groupset for $450 in the UK. That comes with crank, BB, cassette and chain plus the levers, mechs and brakes. exchange rate plus import fees along with the lack of crank, cassette and chain a no go.
@bigring5113
Жыл бұрын
Looks like that throw adjustment will also fix the the paddle catching on the floppy lever
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Apparently not. I know it looks like that in that clip, but the paddle wasn't in it's "home" position in that clip. Anyway, one by one....
@marekchmiel2741
Жыл бұрын
Joe, I think I might need some help 😀. The last two years I've been building bikes from used frames and selling them for profit - I've now reached a point where I want to upgrade to a good carbon wheelset, but I can't decide whether to go rim or disc. The basic principle is to keep the wheels long term while trading the rest of the bike for profit. I live in an area with steep hills and I'm not the lightest - 75 kg, so I'm thinking it's better to go disc for the longevity of the rims? The only thing I'm afraid of is the maintenance cost. Also, what would you pick as the best VALUE wheelset? 2023 Hypers?
@agustinburgos8074
Жыл бұрын
did you tried to bleed it without the calipers bolted to the frame? try to bleed them without the bolts and move the caliper around while pushing the fluid, some shimano models need to do that to get all the bubbles out even if it looks like there is no air, sometimes you move it and you see a big bubble that was stuck on the caliper. Let me know
@jojoanggono3229
Жыл бұрын
I thought you are going to install the groupset on Tomassini frame, or Pegoretti, things would get heated then.
@crabbycat8884
Жыл бұрын
always chinese in the end who slay every japan brand
@pauwu4184
Жыл бұрын
Hopefully price drops down soon. Asking for 500 euros to ship 11 speed groupset is kinda not okay, when you can get similar groupset for similar price with local bikeshop. Was interested at first when we are talking about under 300 euros for hydraulic groupset but 500? nah.
@macariom1
Жыл бұрын
Wow. It has special feature I will call "DownShift Protection"!
@wufler28
Жыл бұрын
I would love for a gravel groupset.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
There's a 1x version!
@wufler28
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling is there a clutch on the rear derailleur?
@nemixCOD
Жыл бұрын
Looks to me since you made those adjustments with the allen key it also may have fixed the sticky shifting thats stops the thumb adjustment? correct me if I am wrong? but the seating of the gear / break looks different in terms of spacing after you adjusted this, so it seems this may fix 2 problems in one?
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@keanubartolata3465
Жыл бұрын
This is what we need! Responsible Creators that actually make a difference. To reserve judgement is not that difficult.
@screwb1882
Жыл бұрын
L-Twoo states that they are Sram compatible not Shimano so its not exactly surprising that you are having issues mixing Shimano with them.
@mohapagla
Жыл бұрын
The default setting for the brake is wrong. The screw that has been adjusted to remove the slack of the brake lever is used for reach adjustment not removing slack. So L-Twoo should fix this. also this shifter stuck issue is also extremely annoying for long term user. usually they don't go away. you have to do this and that trick to make it work.
@TheSaturnV
Жыл бұрын
Those hoods are goofy tall. Remind me of the 80's cow horn TT bar/levers.
@paulmil
Жыл бұрын
Did that brake adjustment fix the shift lever catching too? It certainly looks like it now returns to a position with a bit of space between it and the shift lever after braking.
@jakou31
Жыл бұрын
is the screw set the Reach of the lever or the piston pre load ? I'm waiting Sensah response for hydraulic road disc brake because i hate this Campagnolo style motion from Ltwo ...
@Unhappywithcongress
9 ай бұрын
After watching all the videos on Ltwoo I decided to buy the ERX version. Unfortunately I'm having issues that have never been reported. I can't get the FD to shift to the small cog and the app dosen't allow me to select single click shift or gear protection. The worse part is I can't get any support from Ltwoo. Any chace you can share your contact info?
@anthonyhomercycling
Жыл бұрын
Oh wow 😮 boss Urs rides one of those ❤🎉
@macadish
Жыл бұрын
Definitely not a hassle free product. I ordered one via taobao, installed and bled with Shimano mineral oil. It worked beautifully at first, but the lever got stickier and sticker and within 3 days, the lever was springing back to default position so slowly that the rotor continued scrapping 6 sec straight. I contacted ltwoo and was told to use the official ltwoo oil. They claimed that Shimano mineral oil can work if you bleed out all of the ltwoo oil, but it didn't work for me even after I bled the system twice. The silver lining was that ltwoo agreed to send be a replacement brake lever. I will try with ltwoo's mineral oil and see how it works out, but it is kinda weird that shimano mineral oil would cause such a huge issue... Also, like @JourdainColeman, I had an issue where I couldn't bleed the system because I tuned the lever adjustment screw >< Thank you @ChinaCycling for diagnosing the issue.
@hkp9257
Жыл бұрын
With brakes, I really want a working quality control system. The Tiagra ST-4720 set is like 350€. If needed, a front and rear derailleur together on sale are like 50€. Sorry but in this case I dont even have to think :/
@millermiller75
Жыл бұрын
What are the biggest reasons why Chinese brands are (or will be) cheaper than Shimano and SRAM? Marketing costs? Employee cost? Manufacturing cost? Quality control costs?
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Very good question. I think a combination of greed and good relations with OEM bike manufacturers. They sell cheap to OEM bike manufacturers and then sell expensive to consumers to provide the illusion of value. But of course, there's also fat money being spent on R&D and marketing.
@millermiller75
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling According to internet search, AliExpress is cheap for all products because (1) Direct sale from manufacturer to consumer, thus cutting out middleman, and (2) shorter supply chain line. I suspect there’s other savings, and smaller profits, as you suggest. Good vids.
@jeanmorali4190
Жыл бұрын
On ali the groupeset 11v : 500 € 12 v 560 € . ... (without box) ...without crankset.. What do you think vs 105 groupeset hydro ?
@mr_musette
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, but I do think you've done the groupset quite a disservice - you should've scrapped the video and started again. Even with the text saying you've resolved it at the end, it's still 20 minutes of you saying it's not good, when it is actually fine. Oh well, I guess it's good because less people will buy it because of your slightly misleading video, and then I'll be able to get my hands on it more easily 😂
@romanpramuka2703
Жыл бұрын
Interestingly, when I saw tracevelo's video before yours, I was wondering if there will be an issue with thumb lever. Because my Campagnolo centaur shifters had same problem with blocked thumb lever by not fully returned upshift lever. I solved it by removing tiny rubber bit in brake lever for preventing rattling, there is no rattling anyway. Thanks for great video.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
It's funny that $$$ Campagnolo also have this problem.
@romanelsnerio
Жыл бұрын
Are the shifters compatible with shimano derailleurs? That would be awesome! I am using a GR9 groupset already on one bike. The shifters are good. The derailleur is unfortunately still the weak point.
@higuy57
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. I bought their erx groupset and had similar issues with bleeding the brakes. Didn't even think about that screw until watching this. Btw, I wanted to change my hoses since I messed up on the length (had cut it a wee bit short) and wanted to replace them. I tried contacting L-Twoo, but no response. By any chance would you happen to know what olive and needle would work as replacements for these brakes?
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
The Shimano ones work fine. :)
@higuy57
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling thank you very much!!
@andrewmurgatroyd9214
Жыл бұрын
And I was contemplating buying them...no no no these mistakes should not be...the set is launched to early. Good job ltwoo said I could only buy in bulk. If I had bought it in aliexpress for 500euro here in Germany I would not have been a happy guy. The titanium frame is really nice. Now just like you I am editing afterwards I actually wrote this before watching all of the video. So the problems are not that bad? I am still sticking to my Juintech sensah sram mix.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, watch till the end... most the problems are fixed.
@anielyantra1
Жыл бұрын
I'm more of a conservative. I think that a good pair of V-brakes are as simple and reliable as it gets. Adding electronics or hydraulics to a bike is just a way to complicate a simple reliable system. Carbon is dangerous even for racers.
@thekeytoairpower
Жыл бұрын
Looks like adjusting the lever deconflicts your shifter from the brake lever... potentially fixing two birds with one screw.
@TheXiamenCyclingFeed
Жыл бұрын
Look at this smug lord bragging about not having COVID 😜
@derekhobbs1102
Жыл бұрын
Here in Australia, not having covid is like being a virgin.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
PMSL.
@denis401
Жыл бұрын
Looks like in the after adjustment clips, there is a gap between the brake and gear levers. Did this also fix the problem with the shifter sticking an blockin the thumb shifter action?
@simple4586
Жыл бұрын
The only Taiwanese groupset I'll ever try, and have had, is Microshift. Shifts perfect and Advent X has clutch too. Has not gone out of tune for the longest except the darn barrel adjuster on the STI as sometimes I accidentally turn it when on the hoods. No issues aside. Dont care about aesthetics much.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Microshift are underrated IMHO
@Jinedan
Жыл бұрын
It looks like the brake lever adjustment also fixed the shift-lever interference issue?
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
Nope, that clip is mis-leading. Adjusting the grub screw moved the brake lever from it's 'home' position, but after you give it a squeeze, it goes back 'home'
@svanimpe
Жыл бұрын
It looks like there's a reach adjust on the shift levers. You can see it in Trace Velo's unboxing. Shouldn't that fix the issue with the shift lever getting stuck on the brake lever?
@9118693223
Жыл бұрын
luke on trace velo fixes almost every problem of these cheap components .your frame looks amazing , and good quality .
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
🥖🥖🥖
@jeanmorali4190
Жыл бұрын
Do you Know if the shifter are compatible With 105 transmission and hydraulique caliper ?
@yspegel
Жыл бұрын
Not saying you should. But have you tried putting something between the brake cylinder in the shifter and the lever?
@danalec4742
Жыл бұрын
Hi Jo, Trace Velo is very happy with both hydrolic groupsets. You may consider watch his video 😉
@cremicilafenice1315
7 ай бұрын
Im saving up to buy this groupset right now, it might take weeks or months but as of now for those who bought it. how does it perform after months of use?
@teabelly1565
Жыл бұрын
I also watch Luke at Trace Velo very entertaining, however I'll stick with Shimano.
@youtube_chose_word_for_you
Жыл бұрын
they should release the rim brake version first
@hkchew03
Жыл бұрын
Rim brake version has been out there for years...
@neilmcgurk2227
Жыл бұрын
I believe that was released some time ago
@youtube_chose_word_for_you
Жыл бұрын
@@hkchew03 I mean with the update. the old one have bad placement for the gear down clutch
@hkchew03
Жыл бұрын
@@youtube_chose_word_for_you that doesn't solve or even related to the main issues that is in this video, which is the hydraulic itself and the shifting lever blade.
@JohnSmith-ee7gf
Жыл бұрын
Do groupsets no longer include chainset, cassette and chain?
@lejendpolevault5345
Жыл бұрын
How would one go about purchasing a serk frameset? Went on the website and smashed the net but no indication of how to purchase.
@jkspcoy
Жыл бұрын
Great video as always happy Christmas, would you recommend a good Chinese brand helmet maker please
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
PMT are pretty good, they OEM for some of the big western brands. I also love my RANKING helmet, but a bit pricey for an Asian brand.
@jkspcoy
Жыл бұрын
@@ChinaCycling thanks so much
@n0b0dy07
Жыл бұрын
These type of caliper must be bleed from bottom to top, must inject the mineral oil from the caliper to the reservoir, not the contrary
@marcowerner8739
Жыл бұрын
That seek bike frame really caught my attention but how can one order this product????
@guseppe6934
Жыл бұрын
Well, I guess you just had a prototype right? And prototypes are usually bad......
@allyp7
Жыл бұрын
it seems watching you guys that these manufacturers listen to issues (maybe not like the big companies) that you point out and are able to fix them quickly.
@ChinaCycling
Жыл бұрын
It's a double-edged sword. They listen to feedback, but then they also get used to relying on it.
@gevons
Жыл бұрын
Hey there! What’s the best way to reach out to ya? Wanted to pick your brains about a certain bike if you are open to it.
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