"this is where politics and, unfortunately, bigotry and prejudice come into play. Those are some buzz words to get the Tolkien Society 'scholars' salivating" . This made me almost spit out my coffee 😂
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
They'd be salivating if they ever watched my videos :D . They don't though!
@Kaleidoface
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook Your problem, I think, is that your videos are entirely too filled with actual scholarship and.....I shudder to write this.....original thought.
@waltonsmith7210
3 ай бұрын
In a workd filled with so much bigotry and prejudice, I find this statement genuinely odd.
@TheRedBook
3 ай бұрын
Bigotry and prejudice in the story itself, not the author. TS can't seem to tell the difference.
@josephraffurty9293
Жыл бұрын
The red book library at the start is a great work of art. Really cool way to start the video. Love learning more about the rohirrim. Feel they aren’t explored as in depth as other races on many channels.
@jamezjernagain8665
Жыл бұрын
I can feel the magic of the legendarium. Well done.
@skatemetrix
Жыл бұрын
This raises a bigger question: how much of the Silmarillion was distorted and altered by mannish myths and Numenorian misunderstandings?
@BenFrayle
Жыл бұрын
Probably not a great deal as it was an elven account transcribed.
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Probably the other way about. It is really "distorted" by the knowledge of the Elves, which explains their misunderstanding of Men. The idea of the Numenorean misunderstandings and myths was really something Tolkien was going to develop further as laid out in Myths Transformed. The idea of the flat earth becoming round, when the sun first arose, etc. That was all going to be changed with previous versions basically being considered Mannish myths.
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Support The Red Book on Patreon: www.patreon.com/theredbook Join The Red Book on Discord: discord.gg/XaZDTNkM
@MistaGify
Жыл бұрын
Well done on many fronts! I liked the 1st artwork of the Red Book and the cozy library/fireplace. Maybe that should be your intro page from here on, with you yourself included as a scholar deep in thought, haha! And a good job on explaining the bigotry of Gondor as well as how tales work within tales!
@docopoper
Жыл бұрын
This feels like the sort of "What is Aragon's tax policy" stuff that George R.R. Martin would have loved. Though done in an extremely Tolkien way. Like gosh that felt like some extremely realistic power politics.
@Edward-nf4nc
3 ай бұрын
It may originally have been a lie, however, they were kin of the kings of Gondor via Eldacar's mother. So when Elessar reforged the Oath of Eorl with Eomer he legally gave the land to a distant kinsman! Also Eowyn married Faramir, Steward of Gondor and Head of the House of Hurin. Also, her grandfather married a descendant of a Prince of Dol Amroth, and her brother married a daughter of the Prince of Dol Amroth, who was also Faramir's uncle, who were kin of the House of Elendil, making Eomer's heirs descendants of the Dunedain and kin to Elessar! What was originally a lie became a different truth! Rohan was ruled by a kinsman of the king of Gondor!
@GreMnMlin
Жыл бұрын
This makes a lot of sense, especially given Tolkien's background as a scholar of medieval history where legends like this were quite common (like the welsh and norwegians linking themselves to the Trojans or the Irish to the greeks) as a way to lay claim to a prestigious Mediterranean history. Or later in history how the aristocracy of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth liked to claim they were not actually slavs and balts like the rest of the population, but the descendants of Sarmatians or Alans (which had no basis in fact)
@istari0
Жыл бұрын
I would think then, that having elevated the Éothéod to "equal status" with the Men of Gondor in order to justify the "loss" of Calenardhon, these same folk would then find it difficult to object to various ways in which the two peoples might mingle, up to and including intermarriage. Still, I like to think that some of the House of Hador end up among the peoples who would eventually become the Éothéod.
@TolkienLorePodcast
Жыл бұрын
I was actually planning to reread Of Dwarves and Men again soon and now you’re spoiling it 😂.
@TheBrothersArda
Жыл бұрын
Love Rohan, they've always been my favourite partie of the Legendarium, their honour, Northern Courage & battle-joy always felt appropriate somehow and amongst the most well-developed concepts of Tolkien's Legendarium. Brilliant work as always Steven, your knowledge and analysis are always such an inspiration. I have to ask, where does Rohan rank as far as your favourite kingdoms of the Three Ages go? And which one is your favourite?
@justinah7400
7 ай бұрын
My favorite is The Noldor of the first age.
@louisebrouillette5580
Жыл бұрын
This is a fascinating topic, one which I hadn't given enough thought. Thank you for all this information so that we may see things clearly in the legendarium.
@beegfeeg4473
Жыл бұрын
Finally! I’ve waited far too long for another Red Book video!
@ilonapsiuk1078
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, listening to your vids is more than a pleasure. The way U pronounce the names is utterly like honey to the ears, the proper rolled r, ah, music!
@ericcarson4513
Жыл бұрын
Is the Tom Bombadil episode still on its way?
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Yes, still writing that out.
@ericcarson4513
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook Awesome!
@cgarrand78
Жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for another video from you.Great job,thank you!
@TheSaneHatter
Жыл бұрын
"When legend becometh fact, print ye legend." - Gondorian proverb(?)
@denislemenoir
Жыл бұрын
I’d love to see a video exploring fading of the elves. Do they fade in Aman? When would Cirdan have faded if he never left ME? If a ME elf had a child in the late third age, would not that child have much longer to live on ME before fading? If so, why could elves sustain a population in ME indefinitely, just living a few thousand years, having kids, then sailing off when they’re time comes…. Thanks!
@LordTelperion
Жыл бұрын
Good old Calenardhon.
@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ
3 ай бұрын
I don't think it is impossible that some of the Edain that crossed the Blue Mountains into Beleriand later returned back and intermingled with their relatives who stayed in Eriador. There is one description of such migration in the Silmarillion, if I am not mistaken, and there might be more of them that aren't mentioned. Of course, there is not enough information to be sure that some of those people were among the ancestors of Rohirrim, but it is a possibility. So the Gondorian version of history probably wasn't a complete lie, just a favorful interpretation of historical events. Another reason is that the term "Hadorians" (and "House of Hador") is pretty vague - it may describe the descendants of Hador himself, or the dynasty to which Hador belonged, or the people that were ruled by that dynasty, or all the people related to that tribe (including those that didn't go into Beleriand or returned from there). It is possible that this confusion started as a problem of terminology and only later was used for political goals.
@Crafty_Spirit
Жыл бұрын
Gotta say that new intro had its intended impressive effect 👍🏼 It bestows an atmosphere befitting of discussing mythology. By the way, it seems like my KZitem alias Crafty Spirit is sometimes replaced by my google alias in the comment section 😅😅
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I'm happy with the intro but didn't want to get rid of the old one. I now have two intros for videos :D . I think that's something to do with the recent handles update. I'm noticing it with quite a few users.
@Crafty_Spirit
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook An intro for an intro... and regarding my username, I made this other alias when I was like 15 and the internet still young... you can hear fellow Tolkien youtuber Darth Gandalf trying not to laugh when he reads out my username in his Q&A - it's the final or penultimate question in said video, I am still compelled by the whole lightning affair in Númenor's dark hour
@Crafty_Spirit
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook I also wanted to mention something regarding the topic of historical revisionism within Middle-Earth. Tolkien wrote somewhere that many if not most of the inhabitants of Rohan's West March are of mixed descent and that there was more (consentual, positive I assume) mixing between Éothéod and Dunlendings that either side would like to admit - for political reasons. Also, the video tempts me to slander about Fram. I feel like there is a darker side to him than people are led to believe. He must have already seem like a larger than life figure by the Third Age, remembered with certain distortions.
@zenocrate4040
Ай бұрын
Alas, the perennial usefulness of political fictions. Another excellent video. Thanks.
@alanmike6883
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting man 👍
@docopoper
Жыл бұрын
I don't really know anything about the Tolkien Society, but I think the way Tolkien explores bigotry in the mythology is excellent. It really is woven very deeply and causes so many issues for the different peoples of Arda. There are definitely some things that go noticeably unquestioned by Tolkien from a modern lens, but if anything that serves to put more historical context on the work and somehow makes it feel more ancient and timeless.
@RingsLoreMaster
Жыл бұрын
When it comes to the word myth and definitions I accept and embrace Tolkien's 'Mythopia' (sp? )as his explanation of the same.
@Sandbarfight
Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@jimbombadill
Жыл бұрын
I think they are decendant of both. There most have been those who refused the call to numenor. They probably mixed with those who didnt go to beladrian.
@LadyAlaina42-c3e
7 күн бұрын
The Tolkien Society is woke and to be avoided!!
@Crafty_Spirit
Жыл бұрын
15:18 That map is sexy
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I like the regular map (which I use a lot) but I put some effects on it while editing and it made it look pretty cool as a black map with the outlines. I'll probably use it like this from now on.
@kirandeepchakraborty7921
Жыл бұрын
Excellent narration ⭐⭐⭐⭐
@joseraulcapablanca8564
Жыл бұрын
great stuff Steven, i completely agre it is the depth provided by the stories with in the stories which make the legendarium so wonderful. If i knew more of the cats of queen Beruthiel, if it was possible to know more i could not be more fascinated, only less. thanks.
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
Creepy creatures.😼
@LifeofHum
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much ❤️
@PrometheanRising
Жыл бұрын
This is excellent content. Thank you!
@kirandeepchakraborty7921
Жыл бұрын
Amazing visuals ❤
@claybird121바람
Жыл бұрын
The content I crave
@drewp9819
Жыл бұрын
This is a particularly cool analysis. It gets into nuances I never knew about and probably would never consider
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
⚡Too kind :D
@gandalf4751
10 ай бұрын
😍😍😍💕👌
@guillee12
Жыл бұрын
I think this is my favorite video of yours so far
@Hero_Of_Old
Жыл бұрын
Is that a painting of you above the mantlepiece Steven? 😂
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Apparently not. I'm told its a possible ancestor😅
@andrewfanner2245
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating. Thank you.
@Picopunk3
Жыл бұрын
I think it’s also suggested in the war of the jewels that the northmen could have been related to the people of Bor, the faithful Easterling. His people’s descendants that remained in Eriador and didn’t cross the blue mountains.
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
I think I talk a little about that in one of my Trilogy videos, those good Easterlings who fought against Morgoth. Mentioned in passing at least...
@lnwolf7563
11 ай бұрын
While that is a worthy idea, I would pause to believe it, because Tolkien described the Easterlings as "swarthy" meaning they had dark hair and probably a darker skin shade than the descendants of Eorl. That isnt to say that they couldnt have intermarried and down through the years become a more fair haired race, but I would think the descendants of Bor were probably just the normal humans, outside those that came from Numenor, that dwelled in the West of Middle Earth at the time of the books.
@Picopunk3
11 ай бұрын
@@lnwolf7563 some of the men of Hador most likely akin to the northmen who stayed in Eriador were described as having dark hair at least. Tolkien ultimately never fleshed out the specifics.
@lnwolf7563
11 ай бұрын
@@Picopunk3 That is a fair point.
@sainiharika
Жыл бұрын
Eagerly waiting ☺️☺️☺️☺️😊
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, Steven, for the great deep dive into the mythology surrounding Rohan. You totally convinced me that it was a political decision made after Cirion was gone. I think he would've been shocked to hear his descendants talking about the origin of the North men which never heard about or knew about, an origin the Rohirrim themselves never claimed. Alas! They are but Middle Men.😢
@sainiharika
Жыл бұрын
Was eagerly waiting for your video @redbook 💜💜💜
@shanenolan5625
Жыл бұрын
Cheers mate
@claytonshepherd
Жыл бұрын
Well Done.
@XakonXIV
Жыл бұрын
Very well done, and an excellent choice for a topic. Thank you.
@keyboarddancers7751
Жыл бұрын
Such a fantastic Tolkien channel.
@Ka_T_ya
Жыл бұрын
Love your analyzes !
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
Thank you to my biggest fan on KZitem!
@Ka_T_ya
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook you are the best channel about Tolkien on YT ,and the reason I began to dig deeper into HoMe 💜
@jonystyles9473
Жыл бұрын
so much words just to recognize this: Northmen are descendents from the men of the house of HADOR that DIDN'T chose to cross to Beleriand, period! makes sense, since they were the numerous house of the 3, some of them chose to stay behind!
@TheRedBook
Жыл бұрын
You missed the point of the video. I'm not just summarising Tolkien Gateway here.
@jonystyles9473
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRedBook I understood bro, and I agree with u as always, specially in the matter of giving Calenardhon to them... just wanted to say my opinion about their Origins, thats all... love your videos ;)
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