Everyone is presuming these ordinary citizens understood the nuances of trial procedure and law. They THOUGHT they would be sent back because they EXPECTED the judge to make the inquiry as to where they were. To penalize the defendant because the ordinary citizen didn’t understand the unwritten rules (unwritten for them) is a travesty.
@williamp6800
2 ай бұрын
Blame the judge, not the jury. She should have asked about each charge.
@WhiteRose360-ji8wc
2 ай бұрын
@@NancyD2 I hope on Monday both parties can be satisfied with the new decisions that will benefit both sides ✌️
@shanedaley6236
2 ай бұрын
@@williamp6800just to be clear in court she should have done something but I don't fully blame them for not being clear in their note I think even if I had no idea of how court worked I would want to be clear but I blame the judge more then the jury it sucks that Karen might actually suffer because of this
@david-bo2mo
3 ай бұрын
So lemme get this right...the commonwealth is saying that the defense waived their right by not asking for the jury to be asked about the split/polling the jury BUT ALSO states that doing that exact thing is coercion and isn't allowed...
@TinaDanielsson
2 ай бұрын
Makes total sense. It's simple boolean math: _allowed to ask_ XOR _not allowed to ask_ = TRUE 😅
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Sssshhh... you're not supposed to notice!
@shazstar13
3 ай бұрын
I honestly think if the CW doesn’t dismiss the charges, and if the judge doesn’t hold a hearing, the jurors will go to the media - likely as a cohesive unit. I know I would.
@unpiii
3 ай бұрын
Let’s hope so!!!
@izmac9146
3 ай бұрын
Exactly this!!
@archangel807
2 ай бұрын
documentary is there and watching and so is CNN
@erin4885
3 ай бұрын
But bev TOLD them not to give anyone OR even her her ANY information about count until they were unanimous. She did not say unanimous on all or some but they were following those instructions.
@screamingcats72
3 ай бұрын
I think Bev created an environment where the jurors didn’t feel comfortable asking. He strict time cut offs and the semi-condescending way she spoke to the jurors made it feel like, to me, that no one should speak unless spoken to. The attorneys have dealt with it and even they were hesitant at times.
@TricommStrategies
3 ай бұрын
It should not be up to the jury to know how things work in the courtroom. It was up to the judge to ask, not for the jury to know, to ask or to say in their notes. The stakes were too high and Bev was in too big of a hurry.
@Missbehavin_NekaB
3 ай бұрын
IMO the defense attorneys were also in a hurry. At the time they seemed to want to wrap it up instead of risking a guilty verdict.
@truecrimesnoopy6834
3 ай бұрын
Tricomm or was she shamelessly careless
@silikon2
3 ай бұрын
Lally's response was revolting. The state's job isn't to get "the girl", it's fundamentally to uphold the constitution of the United States. Lally blows this off on technicalities. Mr Lally should be earnestly trying to determine if what defense states is correct. I can't express just how much disdain I have for the commonwealth as this goes on. Well, the government at least. People there are literally taking to the streets. And oh boy watch some Canton town halls.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Bev zoom-zoomed through that declaration of mistrial. She barely took a breath from when she entered the courtroom
@lseh
3 ай бұрын
Juries don't know how things work so the court should be more responsible with holding their hands and be proactive in asking these questions to ensure everyone is on the same page.
@hoofgirl31
3 ай бұрын
totally, I'm wondering how the judge didn't just ASK where are you on each count?!
@Kodiak42
3 ай бұрын
@@hoofgirl31I know it’s cliche at this point, but I’m forced to wonder if this is just the result of Bev’s impropriety
@evilqueenyiayia
3 ай бұрын
I'm having the same question. 🤔
@Lulu_bear
3 ай бұрын
This is exactly what I was thinking. If I was in the jury I wouldn’t know what the correct procedure was to do things. If it said don’t fill out the jury forms until you came to a decision, that says they didn’t fill anything out and had thought they were going to have time to go back and fill things out. It’s all very confusing, glad we have EDB to break it down for us.
@maureenc1284
3 ай бұрын
Agreed. I was on a jury where the judge gave two forms to the foreman. You were supposed to fill out one. He filled them both out. There should be ONE format for all juries in the US.
@Raymail-tj4cf
3 ай бұрын
I’m not a lawyer but as a “ jury person “ I thought Judge Bev said don’t fill out the jury slip until they finish all. This is a Judge issue not a jury issue. In my opinion.
@J-ellO
3 ай бұрын
I the same thing! 100% agree❤
@angelachristian87
3 ай бұрын
I listened to her instructions more than a few times. And she implied that they had to answer all the counts. I don’t know why the defense didn’t state this. I mean did they not because they don’t want to offend her?
@Missbehavin_NekaB
3 ай бұрын
@@angelachristian87throughout this trial these defense attorneys didn’t appear to fear offending this judge.
@Rae777
3 ай бұрын
@@angelachristian87I’m not sure they caught the implication. They know how it works so they may not have considered how that could’ve come across to the jury.
@cailinanne
2 ай бұрын
@@angelachristian87honestly… I think they fucked up and I think they know it.
@musicst0ry618
3 ай бұрын
Honestly... as clear as their last note was, it's not the jury's job to know the procedure and it's also not their job to make sure everything was done in order. The fact that the judge did not even ask if they were divided on *all* charges is baffling to me, and was during the trial too... I just don't know how they are going to rectify this... But it is infuriating. This is not justice served...
@mostlyvoid.partiallystars
3 ай бұрын
Yes. 100%
@truecrimesnoopy6834
3 ай бұрын
And ... Her instructions were confusing IMO she was shameless about being tired and in a hurry
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
What's soo frustrating is that I think in many cases the charges would be dismissed (or not even brought to trial) by the prosecution but we all know Lally and Morrissey won't do that, which is the real problem if the people of Canton or Mass want it dismissed cuz she was acquitted on those charges. A lot of smoke for Bev I see when I really see the issues with law here and we all should be upset pros isn't dismissing those charges but will waste tax payer time and money again, just as long, repeating this trial even with his head investigator suspended without pay and Kevin Albert suspended and FBI investigating.
@musicst0ry618
2 ай бұрын
@@origamikiddo2625 Yeah, that too. I really do not understand how Lally thinks that this is the best way justice is reached for the people. I feel sorry for JOKs family and KR because they will never know what actually happened.
@silikon2
3 ай бұрын
Judge Bev: "aw, screw it, mistrial." You'd think after a couple month trial a bit more care should have been taken, instead of "kthxbye".
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
I'm really interested in how her last case went cuz I heard mistrial and was there similar thing with confusion about instructions but wasn't high profile so we don't know about it?
@deniseYaniv
3 ай бұрын
Bev should have asked if they had reached a verdict on any of the counts like any other judge would do.
@lseh
3 ай бұрын
They should make it mandatory to fill out all the forms even with deadlocks. They should have a deadlocked box.
@mostlyvoid.partiallystars
3 ай бұрын
The courts don’t like jurors believing deadlock is an option
@williamp6800
3 ай бұрын
@@mostlyvoid.partiallystars How about: “Guilty” “Not Guilty” “Not Unanimous”
@Kayla-ed2rp
3 ай бұрын
Or maybe after they come back as deadlocked a form is then given before a mistrial is declared.
@mostlyvoid.partiallystars
3 ай бұрын
@@williamp6800I would agree but again - they really really don’t want to “signal” that disagreement is an acceptable outcome.
@AnthonyPi1999
3 ай бұрын
@@williamp6800That’s elegant! I like that!
@sarcasticcatlady2036
3 ай бұрын
What baffles me is that with as high profile and contentious as this case was, why wouldn’t the court make sure everything was documented to the highest level? Just in case the verdict was in dispute, like it is 🤦♀️
@MLA56
2 ай бұрын
This is Eastern Massachusetts. The most-Far- Left part of THE MOST LEFTIST state in the country. I don't say "liberal," because that word implies FREEDOM. LEFTISTS DON'T WANT FREEDOM. They want TOTALITARIANISM. A SELF-SERVING REGIME, not a DEMOCRACY. So, they DON'T CARE what The People think. Not until The People stand up for themselves and REMOVE THEM FROM OFFICE. VOTE. And in an area where corruption is SO deeply entrenched, make VERY CERTAIN that the election results are ACCURATE. A quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson is, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When people fear the government, there is tyranny." So, citizens of Massachusetts, what are YOU as a group going to do about it?
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Bcs ThAtS nOT hOw We Do ThInGs In MaSsAcHuSsEtTs
@walkerjoggerrunner7571
2 ай бұрын
I'd bet $10 that Bev knew that's why she hastily got them out. She didn't want any questions, or looks (😶😤) resulting in KR's attorneys asking for a poll Bev purposely gave confusing instructions.
@shanedaley6236
2 ай бұрын
@@walkerjoggerrunner7571she went so quick in the morning and at the end of the day it felt like she wanted to be anywhere else
@JamieDoe472
3 ай бұрын
What I don't understand is while arguing, the judge said if there's anything that differs on that paperwork from what I've said just go by what I've said. She definitely made a point to make it known that she did not want them talking to anybody about their decision until they reached a unanimous decision. Those two things in my opinion are confusing
@LilTex0825
3 ай бұрын
That’s standard.
@J-ellO
3 ай бұрын
@@LilTex0825NO it is not standard to say if a JUDGE DIFFERS IN VERBAL INSTRUCTIONS THAN THOSE WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS,Go with what the Judge says!
@LilTex0825
2 ай бұрын
@@J-ellO it is standard for the Judge to advise them not to speak with anyone till a verdict is reached i.e. Bailiff
@jennifersandahl4603
3 ай бұрын
I’m angry for Karen Read. The court should have been more forthcoming. As a layperson who has served on a jury, I wouldn’t know to ask or think to-especially with how off-handed Bev was. Also, her instructions were over an hour long. I would not have been able to follow that personally. The court seemed to bend over backwards for the protection of the case-without protecting Karen Read’s constitutional rights or her right to “innocent until proven guilty”
@evanescentlili
3 ай бұрын
Thankfully, after watching EDB, I now know when to ask and what to ask if I get chosen for Jury duty next month. (I received a summons last week, so I may have my own case to be jury on in August!)
@patriciagrillo1843
3 ай бұрын
Jackson asked the judge at some point to change the jury slips to make them clear. Nothing happened. 😮
@bethpatriots7290
3 ай бұрын
You are brainwashed. Why do you ignore all evidence ?
@garywatts1
3 ай бұрын
This is well put - ever word of it- if this mess is not sorted out and Karen is tried again - this is not justice in my eyes and I suggest in the eyes of most of the people following this side show!
@Missbehavin_NekaB
3 ай бұрын
@@patriciagrillo1843actually the judge did change it.
@andreacollins3204
3 ай бұрын
Hi to all my lawnerds friends. Replay crew from Ireland. 🇮🇪 🇮🇪
@valkyrie4340
3 ай бұрын
Me too!
@TricommStrategies
3 ай бұрын
IT SHOULDN'T BE UP TO THE JURY TO SAY! OR ASK! OR WONDER!
@mostlyvoid.partiallystars
3 ай бұрын
Amen.
@JuleAllbright-pq1mq
3 ай бұрын
When did Defence get time to object or question, the judge declared mistrial??
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
There was literally no time. She didn't draw breath until is was a done deal
@shazstar13
3 ай бұрын
And I wonder if the judge’s verbal instruction that they should consider Karen guilty if her actions LEAD to John’s death, so the jury MIGHT consider her guilty because she dropped him off. Which is ridiculous.
@TealandViolet
3 ай бұрын
I have also wondered this.
@silikon2
3 ай бұрын
Yikes.
@aloevera533
3 ай бұрын
Yes! I wondered this too. Because charge 2 didn’t leave any room for not guilty anywhere. At least it didn’t seem so.
@Playtechy
2 ай бұрын
I agree with this; it was reckless for the judge to leave out a line about "It is not enough to say her actions led to a scenario where John died, you have to believe that she knew or ought to have known her actions would have led to the death of John or was likely to end in such a result" or something to that effect.
@karlabravo6657
2 ай бұрын
I also thought thought that! Which is ridiculous as John was an adult!
@camillasaietz4856
3 ай бұрын
This is the longest lasting slow motion train wreck I've ever seen!
@OMGKitteh88
3 ай бұрын
The fact that Yanetti asked for a hung jury to be announced, doesn't mean that defense didn't want/expect a judge to poll on charges. Bev just said "mistrial" and sent off the jury. ???
@kristyreynoldsapaintersdau9016
3 ай бұрын
How many times did we hear Bev say This is how we do it here.
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
How annoying was she! Every time she opened her mouth!!
@neraknawoc7709
3 ай бұрын
Would love you to go through some of the pre trail stuff from the Read trial and explain how judge Bev was allowed to make some of the decisions she did
@Wattooo141
3 ай бұрын
I understand not enquiring into a juries deliberations but if potential jurors start to assume that any verdicts they may reach will be for want of a better term “ignored” then there is no faith in what is essentially the foundation of the legal system, a jury of peers.
@shazstar13
3 ай бұрын
Apparently some said they were swayed by the taillight “embedded” in the shirt - which wasn’t evidence. It was only in Lally’s opening & closing and I didn’t think they were meant to consider openings & closing as evidence? I guess we’ll find out eventually.
@australobuchia
3 ай бұрын
You're right, they're not supposed to consider that as evidence. The prosecution is also not really supposed to say things that can't prove 🤔
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
Was that the microscopic pieces in the shirt of John? The same shirt that was bundled up with clothes that Proctor grabbed from hospital? And then went directly to get her car? And then left out on butcher paper in the station for 6 days to dry, where make ppl had access to both car, collected evidence (which was logged as a group days later not every time and day it was collected)?? We're not treating that as not secured so it could have issues with what was found there? And going with whatever Trooper Paul was trying to explain happened?
@kitcatkit6240
2 ай бұрын
@@origamikiddo2625don’t forget it didn’t get logged into evidence until March!!
@sn0tpuppy347
2 ай бұрын
There really needs to be some way to prevent situations like what is happening to the professor from continuing to occurring.
@MsCharlie2007
3 ай бұрын
So, I see this as a failure on the side of the legal system to properly instruct the laypeople (jury). I find it interesting that, when this happened in the Baldwin case, remedy was swift and in strong favor of the defendant. Essentially, regardless of who was at fault or intentionality, the system was held responsible for executing their job perfectly. Here, it also seems the system has failed the defendant. It's concerning to me that there's not a legal remedy in this situation. Surely this can't be a novel situation.
@wannabetrucker7475
3 ай бұрын
I think someone usually asks for jury to be polled., but the defense was happy for a mistrial, and never considered it could be an even better outcome....bse the jury notes were very straightforward
@MsCharlie2007
3 ай бұрын
I interpret "consensus" to mean "unanimous on all charges". I think the jury felt confident they could not meet that definition of consensus. The issue here was not that the jury had questions, they and the court had a miscommunication about the definition of "consensus" 1:12:25
@neilcrowley5232
3 ай бұрын
Frightening to think your life can be in hands of these Jurors, reasonable doubt at every turn in KR case
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
Rather jurors than a single judge like Bev?? Or Glanville? Or Oklahoma texting judge? Much as jurors can have issues, a group of 12 ppl your lawyer has some say over who hear the case vs a judge that gets assigned and I don't think you can change without real issues. I'll take the jurors.
@williamp6800
2 ай бұрын
In the hands of an incompetent or corrupt judge.
@karinaz8756
2 ай бұрын
Have you listened to the Karen is guilty crowd. They think the entire case is “I hit him I hit him “. Physics , destroyed phones, and incompetent “experts” be dammed.
@Ceejbot
3 ай бұрын
This is not on the jurors. This is 100% on the judge for not helping them in a situation they're new to and confused by. Her instructions pushed them in the wrong direction, and she didn't help them out of it. Cannone messed this up, and the responsibility is on her. It seems pretty horrific for a judge to be able to rush through declaring a mistrial and nobody having *any* remedy for a judicial error like that.
@supergran62
3 ай бұрын
Am I the only one who recalls argument from the defence that the wording of count 2 Jury instructions left room for error?
@ChimeraTruely
3 ай бұрын
The judge brought the jury back and told them that there were some changes to the jury instructions that were sent back, so she was going to read the corrected ones. Before she started reading them, she told them that what she said now was to take priority over any other notes or jury instructions they had in the deliberation room. The shock and idea of having multiple jurors remembering parts of both instructions broke my brain. 🤯 The next thing I realized, the judge was halfway through the new instructions, and I felt helpless. I can't imagine how they felt. 😢
@susanwilson8487
3 ай бұрын
I hope the court and lawyers get that the average person does NOT know you can split things. I never did understand the second charges…
@jodipaul8672
2 ай бұрын
Replay crew here. Remember when Judge Bev declared the mistrial she said she would see them in the jury room shortly? I wonder if she got more info not on the record re what the jury was thinking. Just speculating here. *Cue Emily’s fairy wand*
@krystalbrooks3418
3 ай бұрын
Someone needs to tell Tik-Tok girl that her rights end where the rights’ of others begin. Simply put. What is going to happen if she just continues this willfully defiant behaviors? This poor professor, I can’t even imagine the frustration.🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
@annm9589
2 ай бұрын
frustration, embrassment, stress, and $$ to legally fight it
@krystalbrooks3418
2 ай бұрын
@@annm9589 I cannot even imagine 😩
@DeanneH-sm9pz
3 ай бұрын
Hi, replay crew here. I remember Jackson arguing with the judge about the instructions. I remember him saying “I don’t care how it’s done in MA.”
@wannabetrucker7475
3 ай бұрын
😂😂 that's funny, then he shouldn't be practicing in MA
@KaitlynJaney
2 ай бұрын
@@wannabetrucker7475Yanetti practices in MA and he agreed with Jackson and even said that the verdict forms were not like the ones he’s ever seen. I believe the reason for Yanetti saying they were different is because somehow from the time Jackson and Yanetti agreed with CW on those forms, to the time the jury got those forms and J&Y saw them again a very important line was missing that made it how it would usually be done. That sentence was: Not guilty of count 1 “and all lesser included charges” that last part was suddenly gone and they had to ask for it to be put on or back on I should say. Plus it doesn’t matter how it’s usually done anyway it’s what suits best for the charges and particular trial you are dealing with. The lawyers come up with all the language on those forms so they will always likely have one difference or another.
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
Good luck to finding a new unbiased jury Commonwealth! Love your channel Emily ♥️
@laurelwild735
3 ай бұрын
I'm happy the Baldwin case was dismissed. I think he probably acted like an arrogant star on the set but I don't think he deserved to go to jail. I think living with it for the rest of his life is punishment in itself & the husband & child have at least been financial compensated even though that fixes nothing at least they don't have to worry about money which may relieve some type of stress. Very sad all the way around.
@shilogall8038
3 ай бұрын
I'm shocked the jury didn't acquit of all charges in about 10 mins. Were they not watching the same trial as the rest of us??? 🙄🙄 The defense repeatedly proved John wasn't hit by a car, which is way above the standard of just creating reasonable doubt. I don't get it. Stupid
@amandamacabre
3 ай бұрын
I think it's the wording. They were told to consider her guilty if her actions led to his death. Where is the line there? Does the include dropping him off?
@robyn_rainbow
2 ай бұрын
Also don't forget they don't get to watch things more than once. If they were having an off day they might miss important information. And they aren't meant to talk about it with anyone until deliberations so if they follow that rule it would be a very different experience. I think that's right anyway.
@cailinanne
2 ай бұрын
@@robyn_rainbowyou are correct, I was on a jury for a long trial. It was basically impossible to get things run back for us, they could only read us the transcript from a specific day or witness and they had the read the whole thing. We couldn’t skip to the part in question. Basically you have to listen to it all again, and it’s literally useless because you’ll zone out if it’s at the end of a long testimony. This was in CA.
@garywatts1
2 ай бұрын
It's also likely that the demonstrations will increase in volume and frequency the likes of which Canton has never seen before!
@Rae777
2 ай бұрын
Their note actually makes more sense with the context of it specifically referencing count 2. IMO, they were likely split regarding whether Karen’s actions in drinking and driving and leaving him there contributed directly to his death. No one ever explained what “contributing to his death” meant legally
@Jeshuaben_joseph
3 ай бұрын
Jury’s statement letter gave the impression they were 💯 clear on being in disagreement. They acted as though they knew they had ZERO options by way of not asking any questions
@wannabetrucker7475
3 ай бұрын
If they retry k.r. trial, the prosecution isn't going to have any better evidence, or witnesses...it would kind of be foolishness to walk down that road again ....unless they have new evidence.
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
And to quote Karen....."a waste of taxpayers money"!
@kitcatkit6240
2 ай бұрын
And I think they can now go deeper into the crash daddy experts. They were limited on what they could talk about and they weren’t prepped for it
@sahitchcock
3 ай бұрын
Could legislature make a law that says all hung juries should be polled on the record? This way, it's on the books and the rights of the accused are protected in the future. Is that even a possibility??
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
I would think it could be, maybe then there would be specific language required to be used (and not used) so it wouldn't stray into inquiring about jury deliberation and specify needed to be done before case was dismissed.
@Playtechy
2 ай бұрын
I don't see why this couldn't be done, just make it anonymous and as you said, make it part of the record. That way the government can't hide unanimous jury decisions like what may have happened in this case.
@cailinanne
2 ай бұрын
that could _theoretically_ hurt a defendant so idk… Someone find some case law! 😂
@Playtechy
2 ай бұрын
@@cailinanne I think case law would be against that, which is why you'd need to write new law to make it possible. It's have to be carefully worded and thought out to not open a defendant up to be harmed by it.
@cailinanne
2 ай бұрын
@@Playtechy oh shoot. Sorry I should have been more clear, I meant case law that proves it’s bad for defendants, because I feel like that’s gotta be out there. Which is why I think people would fight that _hard_ Not that I’m opposed atm, I don’t know enough yet to really have a fully formed opinion (hence the jokey request for case law)
@madcitywendy
3 ай бұрын
Thank you Emily D Baker for interrogating the conflicting arguments. I feel so honored to work in the court system in my state. This shit is important and hard.
@mostlyvoid.partiallystars
3 ай бұрын
Bad instructions in, bad process and judge, bad results out. Asking for Allan charge is not consent to mistrial, just as asking the judge to poll the jury does not imply consent to NOT appeal. There’s a reason legal language should be explicit. This judge said mistrial, kicked out the jury, and never once addressed either party in that process in open court. It also should NOT be on the lawyers to ask the judge to question whether the jury is deadlocked on ALL charges. That is PROCESS. The judge should do that regardless. Here’s a small correction the law would allow. Prior to declaration of mistrial - “jurors, I am about to declare a mistrial based on your findings. Do you have any questions for me about the process or forms before we adjourn court and mistrial this case?” May have helped. Maybe not but it would not hurt.
@Playtechy
2 ай бұрын
And let's not forget; the defense was told by the court the jury was hung on all charges. Based on that, they had no grounds to object to a mistrial. Given that appears to have been false; they raised the issue as soon as they found out. It is incredible the CW is trying to say the defense should have opposed to the mistrial when they were told and believed that the jury was hung on all charges - and would never have had the grounds to do so.
@annm9589
2 ай бұрын
@@Playtechy The judge believed they were hung on all charges based on the note. She simply did not confirm. MA does not require her to confirm, simply says "may." So I do worry that the defense will lose on this issue unless Bev decides to consider the spirit of the law instead of the letter of the law. I unfortunately do not think she will.
@HDnursepractitioner
2 ай бұрын
This whole trial was ridiculous. I have never seen so many inept witnesses on the prosecution side. Lally does not adhere to his Duties as set by the ABA Standard Functions and Duties, to seek justice, not merely to convict.
@Ashley_Marie23
3 ай бұрын
I don't understand how the court system takes so long to do anything, yet the jury instructions were so incredibly hard to understand as a layperson. Team JD explained them so clearly, but I now wonder if it's because it was a civil case.
@sherryernst9901
3 ай бұрын
The only issue that I take with all of the read stuff, well, I have a lot of issues with it, but with the jury thing. Nobody at all. The judge, the lawyers, nobody made it clear that they could in fact come back with an answer on two and not three. They they never were told that. The way that the statue is worded, it's they need to come back with everything, not some or all that I think is where the issue is. But really there's no remedy for that besides the state not bringing those two charges again.
@Whattupp-b7b
3 ай бұрын
Judge Bev had no problem asking Lally if you needed to object during the whole trial so she couldn’t ask the defense if they objected on the miss trial she even asked them she did it very very quickly and the fourth jury told the judge what they voted on so she did know the informationdoesn’t the defendant have a right to know what they voted on each charge why didn’t they go down each charge? The judge made it sound like they were hung up on all charges
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
I'll have to rewatch the trial, but when exhibits are being introduced as evidence the judge will ask the other side of there is any objection, unless they say that before the judge can ask. I think that's the only times she asked pros of he objects. I don't remember other times.
@williamp6800
2 ай бұрын
@@origamikiddo2625Many times she asked Lally if he had an objection. Early on she was signalling him by coughing. Then it became a meme on social media and she stopped doing that. Later on she turned to straight out asking Lally. It was absolutely disgraceful.
@yellowpillNP
3 ай бұрын
During the initial jury instructions, they were told to not give details about deliberations. The first 2 times the jury said they were deadlocked, they were brought back into the room and they were given instructions by the judge. It makes sense to me that they expected instructions the third time they were brought back into the room after sending a note. Why would it be bad to poll the jury of their opinion at that point in time, at this time? Specify that it is their opinion at that moment in time, not now, and have them say it under oath. I feel like that could be just, it’s frustrating that the jury was left confused.
@elizabethvinas7873
3 ай бұрын
EDB. The jury could of been only confused on process, i.e. the verdict form. The note addressed the fact that they couldn't reach a unanimous verdict on all counts, not the verdict form, they should have been polled.
@Hayley-sl9lm
2 ай бұрын
How could they not ask, if they were unsure, whether or not they could render not guilty on some counts but not others? Were they all just extremely shy? That is insane...? A woman's life is on the line for Christ's sake.
@susanadair3360
3 ай бұрын
Emily the defense told the court the jury forms were confusing, then they came back twice dead locked. When the court accepted the mistrial she did not poll the jury. The judge dismissed the jury and scheduling for a new trial
@shamina1908
2 ай бұрын
@@susanadair3360 The judge changed the form to exactly what the defense attorney cried about.
@Whattupp-b7b
3 ай бұрын
This case should have been thrown out right from the start. How do you continue a case when the investigation wasn’t done correctly when they were all kinds of violations and investigation where it was biased where they didn’t do a proper investigation that enough should Loan be thrown out just on that fact alone and then to withholdinformation from karen to let her know that two of the verdict were 12 to 0. The judge knew the judge knows what’s going on karen we had a write to know the verdict information they made it sound like they were hung up on all the verdict and that was not the case, the judge didn’t do a good job, she violated her rights once again.
@jcs137
2 ай бұрын
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
@JMcCarthyworld
2 ай бұрын
'I don't know what to do if I am not in trial?' literally me right now. i miss it already.... I am so angry on the behalf of the jurors for KR!!! Also, there is SO MUCH FLUFF in these motions
@CassidyKB
3 ай бұрын
There is no way these lawyers don’t watch this coverage by other lawyers. This is free advice.
@phylliskelly7910
2 ай бұрын
Replay Crew here Emily, you are accompanying me to my Dr appointment, the Vet appointment and then the shopping. Thank you for your time, I love your channel and this community 💚☘️🇮🇪
@MoonDragon1
3 ай бұрын
If it’s the jury that is willing to talk and testify with no pressure. It should be up to each one to decide if they want to talk. I don’t think saying I voted not guilty here and we were split here is going into it personally
@katara6227
3 ай бұрын
Is there a way to complain about the Judge? I feel like she is the source for this confusion. WE were all just in shock and it was done! Judge Bev was very vague from the very beginning when AJ was questioning the instructions.
@sapphiraolson1489
3 ай бұрын
You know what would have been helpful? If the lawyers had spent time explaining the jury instructions in final arguments.
@SamanthaLeigh7
3 ай бұрын
Your argument is totally valid. What I think is bullshit is getting a 1 hour closing argument after how many days of testimony? 29?? That's not enough. They should have at least gotten 2 hours, but Bev was hoping to wrap this thing up and get to the Cod.
@cailinanne
2 ай бұрын
@@SamanthaLeigh7dude, she rushed the end to go on vacation FOR SURE. She’s so lazy and entitled in my opinion.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Sadly they weren't allowed the time to do that
@NerdDogMom
3 ай бұрын
The fact that the TikToc psychic can continue to file motion after motion is insanity.
@lseh
3 ай бұрын
At the very least the jury should be vudired to learn where the break down happened for court learning purposes to ensure it doesn't happen again, and hasn't happened in past cases, especially since they weren't televised allowing this stuff to come up.
@TinaDanielsson
2 ай бұрын
Yes, THIS! It should be in everyone's interest even if it wouldn't change the outcome of this particular trial. If I've understood it correctly such a thing wouldn't require the details of the juror's votes or verdicts to become public. So that should "protect" the prosecution from getting even more backlash from the public.
@kristyreynoldsapaintersdau9016
3 ай бұрын
But the judge said at the end if my verbal instructions are different than the written my verbal instructions you will follow my verbal instructions.
@emilyrosenthal9853
3 ай бұрын
I 💜 the way you put Legality is not the same as morality.
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
First time I heard her taking about that was with the Petito vs Landrey lawsuit and whether the Landrey parents helped Brian with lawyer, supplies, cleaning Van and going hiking never to return.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
It's a legal system, not a justice system. Sometimes the legal system is also just, but not often.
@paranrmlgrl
2 ай бұрын
I think that the jury both believed they understood the jury instructions and misinterpreted the jury instructions. I think both can be true at the same time. At the time of the deadlock, I think they truly believed that they were right in declaring themselves hopelessly deadlocked - IF they believed that they could not produce a verdict unanimously on ALL counts. That would make them, in their minds, deadlocked. Love all the LawTubers, but law has a lot of legalese that you spend your entire lives in. We “regular people” do not always understand, which is why it’s nice that you and others sit here and explain it all to us! 😊 I completely think that the jury should be polled and the judge was too quick to declare a mistrial. Not because I believe Karen Read is not guilty (which I do), but because not all the information was gathered - which is scary to me.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Yes! Both things can be true!
@megan3576
2 ай бұрын
I wonder how much of the wording of the note was influenced by the foreman’s knowledge of the court system, since it seems pretty commonly rumored that he was a cop. It feels like the jury not asking about a split verdict might’ve been a combination of hesitancy because of the judge’s response to the one question they asked and a confident foreman asserting that the court would address their position about the various counts before dismissing them.
@ginafabiani5629
3 ай бұрын
Maybe they wrote the note like that because they felt like they couldn’t tell unless they agreed on all. Maybe.
@johannawigg6921
2 ай бұрын
I think if the defense in the Karen Read teial can call judge Bev as a witness, that will then mean she can't oversea the next trial... doesn't it ?? That's a win right there !!
@RosemarieJ
2 ай бұрын
@Emily D. Baker. TY for all you do and covering trial that mean so much to us❤❤❤❤
@susanlprince
3 ай бұрын
Replay crew here: The note from the Read jury is not ambiguous. However, if they understood they were to be unanimous on every count in order to be unanimous, what they said is accurate. They may not have understood they could be unanimous on some counts and deadlocked on others. They were simply ignorant. Maybe they didn't know what they didn't know, so they didn't ask. They didn't realize that is actually *was* a lack of understanding. Maybe? I'd hate for her to be tried again on those counts. This trial was ridiculous, at least how it was prosecuted was, and I would hope the CW would give serious consideration to retrying on the murder or manslaughter charges. The more they push it, the more they keep the questionable and unethical investigation of the case in the limelight. I feel for the O'Keefe family, but this case is a mess.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
"Charges" could mean all 3 counts, or it could mean Count 2 and the lesser includeds. Therefore ambiguous as to their meaning.
@MoonDragon1
3 ай бұрын
Was the jury told not to tell anyone the jury diliberations , the split and so on? That is what it seems like to me.
@origamikiddo2625
3 ай бұрын
No, I think the jury can talk about that, but the court cannot get into it with them or the lawyers. If the jurors want to discuss it that's fine, but the court can't being then back in have them talk about how deliberating went.
@robinroe8559
2 ай бұрын
I believe the jury was very deliberate in its wording. They never wrote they were in disagreement over the "Counts," just the "Charges." The only "charges" were in Count 2; therefore, Bev owed it to the jurors and the defendant to inquire about Counts 1 and 3. She did not, however. In fact, it was Bev who declared deliberations were over, not the jurors. This is all Bev's fault! Regardless, the CW shouldn't have prosecuted this case, the Judge should have dismissed this case, and the jury should have had the opportunity to acquit KR in this case (at least on 2 of the 3 Counts). The System failed KR once again!
@Aspiresum1
3 ай бұрын
Great report Emily.
@Whip-It_2014
2 ай бұрын
I'm so confused as to why the prosecution in the KR case has dug in so hard. Like why? You're not supposed to be seeking Ws, you're supposed to be seeking JUSTICE.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
Ohhhh sweet summer child. But your question is 100% valid. Why have they dug in so hard? Hopefully the Feds will inform us eventually.
@iceguy9723
3 ай бұрын
Isn't having jury consider multiple verdicts for same crime, such as in Reed case, double jeopardy?
@tupacalypse88
3 ай бұрын
only if they tried those counts in a second trial after a not guilty verdict
@dsn385
2 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@MellyLuna
3 ай бұрын
We need merch with “That Ship has Sailed” and/or “There are Boundaries!” 🤣🤣
@MrSoullessness
3 ай бұрын
I mean, what to say a judge sees a verdict they dont like and just declares a mistrial unprompted? What recourse is there at that point. The judge wasn't asked to declare the mistrial, the jury didn't get to speak up whether they managed to find any of the charges. So its a free try again for the prosecution?
@sunshinemitch
2 ай бұрын
Why can’t they just say are you deadlocked on all counts?? Easy answer- yes or no
@justjuan589
3 ай бұрын
Idk why I’m so invested in tik tok psychic case, but I am. Thanks for covering it.
@alliealaska7858
3 ай бұрын
I don't think the jury felt like they had an open communication with judge Bev. It felt more like she made the calls and they went along including, I've given you all the evidence you're going to get
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
And that was disgraceful of her. If there's a retrial, Bevvy needs to be on the witness stand.
@silikon2
3 ай бұрын
Jury instructions that take an hour for a judge to read are outrageous, I don't care if the parties and judge agreed to them or not. The "build your own conviction" of count 2 is also outrageous. Yeah, I get "lesser includeds", but only because I'm a slight law nerd. The jury is supposed to be finder of fact, not deducer of the fine print. All the lawyers who think this remotely makes sense need to step out of the coffee house. There shouldn't be a section of the verdict slip that reads like a pizza topping menu. It really SHOULD be guilty/not guilty.
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
This is Bev's second mistrial within 18 months.
@denadimarzo4237
2 ай бұрын
Scariest part, whats happening to Karen Read can happen to ANY ONE OF US!!! Thats a frightening prospect.
@honeybadgerzs
2 ай бұрын
All I know for sure is that I'm thankful that I'll never have to sit as a jury member on a trial in the U.S. There service is not over when it's over, they will be dragged back in to legal wrangling regardless of verdict. Feel so sorry for all the jury that were simply trying their best but are now the subject of scrutiny, caught in the battle between prosecutor and defense.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
I've been driving for hours and yelling at the livestream. Bev explicitly told the jury that they were not.tonfill out the verdict formS until they had reached a unanimous verdict. My thoughts are 1. Is this on the written jury instructions, or merely a verbal instruction? In any event Bev told the jury verbal instructions win over written instructions. 2. That statement is what distinguishes cited cases from the current situation, and gives a clear reason why no form was filled out by the jury and handed over.
@Saitaina
2 ай бұрын
If they were inclined to drop the charges, they wouldn't bring the case considering we all saw how bad it is.
@cakesboo6554
3 ай бұрын
love the T-shirt Emily. Aussie's represent!
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
Acca Dacca!! 🦘🦘🦘
@manderpandersalamander9977
3 ай бұрын
I agree with you on the Read case. Those jury notes and the case law provided by Lally are pretty damning. It sucks so bad, but, there really is nothing more to be done. 😔 “Voice to text” 🤣🤣🤣
@mynursekel7958
3 ай бұрын
I understand that the note everybody wants to say was the jury but the person who wrote the note was the Retired police officer that was your number one that the judge picked prior to the alternates being picked. That is the person that wrote the note. we don’t know if he wrote the note based on everybody’s opinion and how it should be written.
@Jina_G
3 ай бұрын
Rigged.
@sarah_n_dippity
3 ай бұрын
We don’t know if the foreperson wrote the note. Someone else on the jury could have been a very good writer and could have been delegated to write the note, with the agreement of the rest of the jury. The foreperson is the first among equals. If you have never been on a jury, it is a truly democratic process, and no one person can control it. The influence advantage will go to members who have been paying attention during the trial, and to those who can express their thoughts clearly. But each member will have their own vote, nonetheless.
@GothBoyUK
2 ай бұрын
@@sarah_n_dippityIf anyone other than the Foreperson wrote it then it's a big problem because they were very clearly instructed by the Court that *ONLY the foreperson* could write notes or fill in the forms (with the oversight of the bailiff).
@jassellb
2 ай бұрын
Will you please try to watch the in terview on Court TV with the prosecutor that quit?
@PrincessPoohs
2 ай бұрын
I’m really starting to wonder if the jury DID fill out the forms for 1 and 3 but didn’t turn them in with the final note because they thought they’d be asked and there’d be a process for parsing which counts had verdicts.
@cclmontoya
2 ай бұрын
How horrendous that someone will be retried because of a misunderstanding.
@GinaCreone
2 ай бұрын
With all of the admitted ambiguity, confusion, and lack of complete information…shouldn’t the favor lean towards the defendant always without a pre existing precedent and that the defendant’s favor BE the precedent?
@lindagierich9772
3 ай бұрын
Both Erlinda Johnson and Kari Morrissey were added to the New Mexico Brady list for prosecutor misconduct.
@collettepryce3747
3 ай бұрын
I feel that's unfair to Erlinda... I don't think she knew
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
What???? Oh hell I hope Erlinda has.lots of words about that!
@TheMentalDiaries
2 ай бұрын
Just amazed that all this is happening by a lack of a common procedure: polling the jurors. I work in controls and risk management, like it would make sense to make this a standard practice to avoid just these types of issues? Amazed and frustrated by this situation
@jaqkol
3 ай бұрын
Thanks
@TheMsLipps
3 ай бұрын
My gosh Emily, I’m so glad you opened talking about not knowing what to do when there’s no trials. I thought I was losing my mind, or what’s left of it lol. Thank you for keeping me up to date on what’s going on in the law universe. See you in court! 😉 💜
@jerryjones2818
2 ай бұрын
You got a prosecutor in the Baldwin case who was determined to win at all costs and made gerself the decider of fact .
@idk44283
3 ай бұрын
What if the foreperson didn’t relay exactly what they discussed. I wonder if they realized what the note said if they felt they could do anything.
@primarybufferpanel9939
2 ай бұрын
Why weren't the jurors more clear that they were split on one charge? Surely that only makes sense to put that in the note to the judge. Or ask the judge what they should do in that situation. They were vague and this is the result.
@Rae777
2 ай бұрын
@@primarybufferpanel9939 They were both extremely clear and extremely vague. I think they thought the jury instructions precluded them from reporting the fact that they came to a conclusion on some counts. Whose fault that is is anyone’s opinion.
@lawnerddownunder3461
2 ай бұрын
@@Rae777side eye @ Bev
@religiohominilupus5259
2 ай бұрын
@@Rae777 Even if the jury misunderstood the instructions (which we don't know), they were clear on being allowed to ask questions (as evidenced by their prior inquiry). They didn't though. In their notes, they explicitly expressed that the deadlock was not due to lack of comprehension of the law.
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