If you're having trouble installing the plug-in, try these 2 things: 1. Watch my video on how to install VST/AU plug-ins manually here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/kqaFs5-Qhn-Gqm0 2. Restart your computer. Often the plug-in won't show up until after a restart.
@federicob3876
4 жыл бұрын
I'm still having issues with the installation. I have download the AU (.component) moved it to the component folder and nothing. I tried restarting the computer too. Where is it? Under audio units??
@JuanOspinaKeys
4 жыл бұрын
Im Catalina... its working?
@mexicunt12
4 жыл бұрын
Juan Ospina Keys could you walk me through the steps ? I’m running Catalina as well and I can’t seem to get it to work, which file did you download ?
@cccbeats_
4 жыл бұрын
@@mexicunt12 did you find a solution for this?I've just had the same problem
@marcoprenga4972
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another great video. I'm on Catalina and after download + restart I got an error message from LPX saying it wouldn't install the plug-in as it could not authenticate the developer, and so cannot verify it free from Malware. I went to the LPX Plug-in Manager, selected the plug-in and hit the Reset and Re-scan button and hit "Open". I also had System Preferences | Security & Privacy open (General Tab) and the app popped up with an option to allow it despite not being validated. I hit the allow button and made sure the "use" box was checked in LPX Plug-in Manager. I then re-started my iMac and the plug-in was successfully installed and appears under "Audio Units" within Audio Effects.
@knowledgeseeker7324
4 жыл бұрын
TODAYYY, it’s just another chapter For the rest of our LIIIVESSS!!!
@stephydae
3 жыл бұрын
😂😂😆
@nickharriell4180
3 жыл бұрын
I felt this brooooo! It’s just another chapter!!!
@chinmoyjyoti59
3 жыл бұрын
lol XD
@dr.feelicks2051
5 жыл бұрын
As with any steroid, use sparingly
@MEANASSJAMSTER
4 жыл бұрын
the blue screen of death shall punish the greedy...
@ReivzDiMasterMind
5 жыл бұрын
Dope. This is gonna frighten my clients when they hear harmonies they didn't record. XD
@therhinoceros1
5 жыл бұрын
Lol... My Thoughts exactly!
@bobbyodell8676
4 жыл бұрын
No...it's gonna piss em off. It would piss me off.
@Schwarzblond
4 жыл бұрын
@@bobbyodell8676 :-)
@ra-kr7xz
4 жыл бұрын
Bobby O'Dell agreed lol this isn’t that great of a harmonized at all.
@gill4liife
4 жыл бұрын
Lmao 😂
@leeyeager8413
4 жыл бұрын
Would be a great tool for making a guide track for singing a real harmony part that isn't glitchy or pitch shifted at all.
@InlawsOutlaws
4 жыл бұрын
This was an excellent lesson. One thing I'd add to it: One of the ways you can use this is to lay down those harmonic tracks (either as separate tracks or as bus sends) and then use that to get your vocalist (same or another) to sing along. In other words, this is a great tool for getting a vocalist to perform the harmony you want them to. The result will be more natural sounding, and of course, you will be able to use variation wherever you like - attack, dynamics, tone, etc.
@elindigente2255
4 жыл бұрын
I completely agree, specially when you have singers who still aren't too comfortable improvising harmonies.
@IndigenousMonk
3 жыл бұрын
i find it impossible to find a harmony naturally.. so hope this helps
@fairuzhussaini7301
3 жыл бұрын
Reminder: Never do this when intoxicated. Might accidentally summon a choir from hell. But really tho, thank you this awesomez.
@stephydae
3 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂😭😭
@jamesberry5968
5 жыл бұрын
Isn’t bad I guess once you’ve corrected formants and so on. For an even more humanised effect, you could turn the aux busses into tracks and nudge them forward or backward so they all come in at different times.
@jamesh2363
5 жыл бұрын
For me I find it tough to find my harmonies. I don’t think it ends up sounding real enough to actually use in a mix for me. But I would get it to find the harmony then record a take at the same pitch to get a good quality harmony.
@techiyew
4 жыл бұрын
this is great problem solving
@genolagana
4 жыл бұрын
I tend to record scratch tracks for vocals, Tune them right into shape and then spend a month or less practicing it. Then I re-do it without as much editing. Same thing could apply for harmonies
@Dave-Rough-Diamond-Dunn
3 жыл бұрын
Look up chord charts, the harmonics to try are written out for you, it's an easy way to find your basic harmonies to try.
@urphakeandgey6308
Жыл бұрын
I think that's the intent for the plugin. It's a way for you to get ideas or so you can hear an approximation of what you want to do before going through all the effort and finalizing everything else. Even I was not expecting it to sound this bad. It's very robotic. Might actually be a cool effect in EDM tho.
@samplotkin4795
5 жыл бұрын
Awesome technique. Would be even better with some heavy delay on the affected harmonies 😉
@gyangting
5 жыл бұрын
Really cool! Clean & clear coaching! I'm using this in my current song tonight!
@gregkocis
5 жыл бұрын
Awesome, Thanks - “Every dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.” 👍😊
@enlightenedfriend3043
4 жыл бұрын
Nice God bless you
@grgbnntt11
5 жыл бұрын
sounds free
@SteveYager
4 жыл бұрын
I could see this being useful if you're not great with vocal arranging. You could use the automatic harmony as a guide.
@nemorawa
4 жыл бұрын
I use this on my guitars. For example, if I have a breakdown that I want to be heavy, automate for just that part to have lower tuning. Its perfect, it doesn't give that Mickey mouse sound unless I drop to low of course.
@arnabchakrabortyofficial
5 жыл бұрын
Brilliant 👍🏼 I never thought of using vocal harmonizer in an Aux channel and that formant control idea is totally dope. Thanks a ton.
@Mio-fu1sr
5 жыл бұрын
cool video,thanx
@rockyblaq510
2 жыл бұрын
I've watched quite a few vids on vocal mixing/processing and I swear that this entire video made all of the many hours of different videos tie in under 15 minutes. Thank you so much for this tutorial, this is a huge gem for me as I produce and engineer by myself and I'm learning more and more every day that it's the fundamentals that matter, not necessarily the "rules".
@tunesofeleven
5 жыл бұрын
Very nice video mate! It's a sick plugin for free. I'd just like to add my inputs - Maybe it is just me but for me, izotope Nectar's harmonizer works best. it sounds very realistic to me and it blends with the mix just right.
@DevonteRiley
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this instructional video! I've been looking for an audio plug-in such as this so I can use it as a guide to learn and sing different harmonies. It's optional if you want to use harmonies from the plug-in, but if you can learn to sing the correct notes (key + pitch) on your own, even better!
@1345Paulh
4 жыл бұрын
Can the Pitchproof vocal harmonies be played live within Logic from a midi keyboard? Agean has reference to midi control in an old youtube video, but unable to make it work in Logic... Ie for more spontaneous testing of harmony ideas... Thanks!
@michaellarsen180
4 жыл бұрын
I would say this can be used as a reference for some real vocals that needs to be recorded. If not it sounds very metallic nomatter what when you pitch vocals too much, but none the less the sound can be used for some genres. :) I'm still gonna stick with melodyne and write the harmonies myself, thats the fun part of it. :D Thanks for sharing!
@manlust5439
4 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry b ut the sound is not right. formant filter corrects it but still smthing missing. But well done TechHelpGuy good job.
@K_atmosphere
4 жыл бұрын
is there another word for simplicity?...yes , Pitchproof.... Thank you guy...love this
@OfficialStevenCravis
5 жыл бұрын
Without the formant correction it achieves sort of a Weird Al Y. sound.
@mellottc217
4 жыл бұрын
LOL! Thats all I can pay attention to now
@jondough7777777
4 жыл бұрын
The singer has a nasal tone like wired al
@kingslaphappy1533
4 жыл бұрын
Another good way to add formant correction is to actually sing the harmonies yourself! 🤩
@dwheel39
4 жыл бұрын
Great to create harmony guide tracks for singers. Does this work with GarageBand?
@fernandoosorio5707
8 ай бұрын
It works with Garageband too.
@logicprofan8871
3 жыл бұрын
Hi! Thanks for sharing. I'm considering getting the Antares Harmony Engine, but I see pitchproof harmonizer is free. Are there advantages to the harmony engine that make it worth the extra money in your opinion?
@MusicTechHelpGuy
3 жыл бұрын
Good luck getting pitch proof to work nowadays on a modern computer. They cut support for it, so I’ve seen a lot people saying they can’t get it to install.
@logicprofan8871
3 жыл бұрын
@@MusicTechHelpGuy Thanks for the heads up. I gave it a try and with no success. It seems the harmony engine is the smartest choice.
@Verysickbeats
4 жыл бұрын
Does this work in garageband???? anybody?
@DonnyNSN
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that Mr Carney. Nice one. Certainly a hell of a lot easier than flexpitch. I can't afford Melodyne ($AU300), so this will do the job for me. Cheers, and thanks for all your other stuff as well.
@Frst2nxt
5 жыл бұрын
Nice song Has a sound that seems to fill a hole left where there was once more duran duran and tears for fears. Good video.
@urbanphil0s0phy
5 жыл бұрын
And a bit of Depeche Mode also.
@Frst2nxt
5 жыл бұрын
@@urbanphil0s0phy Yes
@MichaelLiningMusic
5 жыл бұрын
How to sound like a human robot for free!
@MoxyDave
5 жыл бұрын
Another fantastic tutorial, man. Thanks! This may help thicken up some vocals in my new adventure game. Going to play around with it now.
@jebatman756
4 жыл бұрын
And the whole point of this is that it shows you where the harmony needs to be sung but then you should go back yourself and record it. You shouldn't keep the fake harmony the way it is via the plugin
@amitanandmusic
4 жыл бұрын
Can imagine the final version of this song in one of the episodes of How to get away with murder. Agree?
@kipling1957
4 жыл бұрын
Cool! Thanks! I guess Melodyne is still the bomb when ultimate QC is bottom line.
@ringsmusik
5 жыл бұрын
Greatest teacher and inspirer on the tube! Thanks
@George_Glass
4 жыл бұрын
Nice. I always wanted to do a duet with a Chipmunk on helium.
@GuyFrets
5 жыл бұрын
I've yet to hear any artificial harmonizers that can compare with an actual harmony part sung on another channel!
@MusicTechHelpGuy
5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, real harmonies are always better. Normally if I have to create harmonies, I'll use Melodyne or Nectar 3, I get a bit more natural sound doing it that way, but the point of the video was to demonstrate a free method of doing this. You also get a very specific sound with artificial harmonies that you can't with natural harmonies. All depends on the genre.
@ShiningHourPop
5 жыл бұрын
It’s also a great way of figuring out and learning a harmony which you can then record that harmony for real
@GuyFrets
5 жыл бұрын
@@MusicTechHelpGuy Your video demonstrates concisely and thoroughly what the Aegean Music PitchProof plugin can do. As you point out, "All depends on the genre". I'm a fussy, old classical music guy so my views are fussy and old if not necessarily always classical. That said, your Logic Pro X video tutorial series has been a game-changer for me. So thanks for all the wonderful work you've done and continue to do.
@GuyFrets
5 жыл бұрын
@@ShiningHourPop Fair enough!
@jamesberry5968
5 жыл бұрын
Trevor Burt voiceLive Rack, and antares harmony engine, if used subtly they probably yield the best results. Know what you mean though, it’s because every time someone sings a line, their throat moves slightly differently. As it should I guess lol.
@addrockride
5 жыл бұрын
One of the most informative demo videos I’ve ever seen in this space. Nice work!
@crossbloodinc.9330
3 жыл бұрын
can you demonstrate on how to install it on mac please
@oscarjensenmusic
5 жыл бұрын
Just sing the fucking harmonies...
@rajeshsingh24
4 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!! Thanks so much Man!! You are the Best!!
@SufferahsmusicHD
4 жыл бұрын
bro you just earned this subscription.....good job
@JewelFornillas
3 жыл бұрын
I came here just for the "how to make harmony from a single vocal take". Not just that but i also learned how to eq harmonies! Thank you very much!
@osmanycazanas5594
4 жыл бұрын
Yes me gusto mucho and Muchas gracias.
@JasonChinniansoulmod1
4 жыл бұрын
Your vocal tone reminds me of Barry Manilow. Very distinctive dude 👏🏾.
@SeaofTranquility
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for showing this plug-in, we'll definitely experiment with it!
@melsimons5418
5 жыл бұрын
Gracias por el tutorial hermano
@MrAcEsNeIgHtS1188
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! Do you think Pitchproof could be used to create hard rock or metal "gang vocals"?
@charliemale3674
4 жыл бұрын
But it sounds awful or is that the point?
@theandiller
5 жыл бұрын
Pretty cool song, nice tutorial! Thank you
@danstirling7386
5 жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t want that amount of glitchiness in the final thing, but this would be really great for working out harmonies. Thanks for the tip!
@SUPATHOWEDTV
5 жыл бұрын
liked at 11:03
@meyer2534
5 жыл бұрын
Really like the simplicity of this VST thanks for the tip!
@HughHarris-sn1pe
5 ай бұрын
OMG a light just got switched on! Thanks for doing this. My attempts at harmonies so far SUCK!!! And the great thing is, I do already have Pitchproof, but didn't know how to properly use it. Excellent.
@azizalami835
4 жыл бұрын
What's the name of the song ? i love the chorus and great tuto by the way this plugin is awesome !
@prashantrishu1
5 жыл бұрын
Sounds very robotic and weird. not impressed with this plugin.
@miguelowls
5 жыл бұрын
Prashant Sharma That’s why you have to blend lol
@prashantrishu1
5 жыл бұрын
@@miguelowls Yes you are correct. Based on the video, I feel that it might work for EFX and for non singers. Somewhere I feel it bit artificial. I use melodyne so I might be biased :).
@systemdnb214
5 жыл бұрын
I wasn't either but it was also not the best vocal to use as an example IMO. But you're right. When you have to chain said plug in with 3 other Logic plug ins and reverb to make it sound decent it just seems like a lot of work. Almost like the plug in isn't worth using.
@MusicTechHelpGuy
5 жыл бұрын
Name another FREE plug-in that does diatonic harmony? There isn't one. Yes, you'll get a better result from Melodyne or Nectar if you're trying to create harmonies artificially, which is what I normally do, but the point of the video was to demonstrate this done with a free plug-in. Using artificial harmonies in music production is very common for pop and electronic music. Depending on the genre, I may prefer using real harmonies that the singer actually sings, or I may prefer creating artificial ones. It's two completely different sounds. Using artificial harmonies is not a replacement for real harmonies, just a completely different technique to help thicken the vocal. Pretty much anything you hear on the radio these days uses a similar technique.
@prashantrishu1
5 жыл бұрын
@@MusicTechHelpGuy I did not mean to offend anyone or diss this video. I have never tried any Free plugin for harmonies so pardon my ignorance. I was expressing my personal views only.
@musicproductionvideos5019
5 жыл бұрын
Your voice has something similar with the singer on "Come Sail Away" - Styx... his low part that is. LOL Can you get up high like does?
@MusicTechHelpGuy
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! I’m not a great singer but I try! I can hit high notes but not in full voice.
@ZumaDogg
4 жыл бұрын
Just think: Earth, Wind & Fire could have used this plug-in and wouldn't have needed Phillip Bailey. Eagles wouldn't have needed Don Henley. This shit is sickening ridiculous.
@Diddy0052
10 ай бұрын
Excellent tutorial. I do have a question though, am currently using Ableton Live 11 DAW, do you know if this also works with Ableton. Thanks
@hinsen
7 ай бұрын
Eiffel 65 used something similar in their songs in the late 90s and early 2000s. Back then it was a hardware solution, but today you can have it using a vst plugin.
@drwhiteguru
5 жыл бұрын
Vocal shifting is the one thing computers still can’t do that well. The most natural software I’ve tried is Little Alterboy by Sound Toys and it’s $100
@Brendan-Black
5 жыл бұрын
Little Alterboy is fantastic. I was really hoping we'd see a non-"Little" version of Alterboy from Soundtoys by now...
@drwhiteguru
5 жыл бұрын
@@Brendan-Black Yes but what would they call it? Little Castrato? Little Opera Boy? Little Countertenor? That's a tough one and there's a joke in there somewhere... It has some artifacts but produces the most realistic up shifting I've heard. I thought the tech would've been here by now, I've been looking for 20 years.
@furryz666
4 жыл бұрын
Tim White you don’t like celonomy?
@noname-ng6sj
4 жыл бұрын
Alterboy isn't natural AT ALL, wtf? I literally use it because it is the shittiest, most digital sounding.
@drwhiteguru
4 жыл бұрын
Let me clarify: Altarboy is the 'Lesser EVIL" Please name me one product that pitch shifts vocal audio higher in pitch and doesn't sound like: the Chipmunks, doesn't mix in shitty synth tones, or a 1/2 dozen other awful artifacts and you sir will win a prize! I've tried them all, the hardware ones too. Altarboy is the most usable for me and has the least problems. Sure it has artifacts but similar to guitar audio to midi conversion the techs haven't been able to develop a quality pitch shifting algorithm for vocals. (Full disclosure I haven't spent quality time with Melodyne yet) If you know of one please tell us the name!
@flmason
4 ай бұрын
Is it just me, or does it not do key based harmonies *below* the original pitch? What do folks do? Put two in a row maybe? Pitch down an octave... then pitch up a 3rd, 5th, etc. ?
@walterdebbarma561
5 жыл бұрын
sir i am using mac mojave and i am facing problems during the installation
@NateEricson
5 жыл бұрын
same, and the ReadMe file doesn't bring any help either
@MusicTechHelpGuy
5 жыл бұрын
Two things: 1. Watch my video on how to install AU plug-in on a Mac. kzitem.info/news/bejne/kqaFs5-Qhn-Gqm0 2. Restart you're computer.
@MusicTechHelpGuy
5 жыл бұрын
@@NateEricson Two things: 1. Watch my video on how to install AU plug-in on a Mac. kzitem.info/news/bejne/kqaFs5-Qhn-Gqm0 2. Restart you're computer.
@martijnvandongen
5 жыл бұрын
This is really awesome, thank you very much for the video! I think now I can ditch Alterboy of SoundToys haha :)
@sugastolemywig.4536
4 жыл бұрын
*is this on garageband too?*
@fernandoosorio5707
8 ай бұрын
Great! Many thanks.
@nsanturio
Күн бұрын
Can you explain How to Install?? will be great thanks
@UpTown209
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if there are Windows based DAW plugins that work like the Vocal Transformer plugin, where you can adjust the pitch without affecting the formant shift, and the formant shift without affecting the pitch.
@Planet9_music
8 ай бұрын
I'm looking for a way to stereo detune a guitar say left down 10 cent and right up 10 cent to thicken my lead tone. Like an eventide h949. I'm at a dead end really. Will this do that?
@EazzyxD
3 жыл бұрын
Just stumbled onto this video at 5 am. I needed this plugin in like forever 'cuz I'm trash at music theory and all that, I just didn't know these things existed. No homo but bro, I love you. Thank you so much.
@heiswise2012
4 жыл бұрын
No wonder most of the pop music of these days is crap. No need to be able to sing since everything is done with the help of computers. I really miss ABBA, Donna Summer, Olivia Newton John, Cat Stevens etc who really could sing without technical tricks.
@timhewitt32
5 жыл бұрын
Would it make sense to quantize the harmonies so they are not completely aligned with the lead? Hard to sing totally aligned harmonies.
@TexasJackdaw
5 жыл бұрын
I bet by using his Aux method, we could print the aux track. Then we’d have an audio file to edit. Either by nudging it, or with flex time. I need to try it.
@timhewitt32
5 жыл бұрын
@@TexasJackdaw I did just that, and by quantizing and playing with additional pitch correction was able to make an even more realistic sounding harmony.
@uptownphotography
3 жыл бұрын
Would this work well for creating guitar harmony parts? Thanks.....and nice video. Phil
@andrewtupua4039
5 жыл бұрын
Subscribed! Thank you :)
@federicob3876
4 жыл бұрын
I'm still having issues with the installation. I have download the AU (.component) moved it to the component folder and nothing. I tried restarting the computer too. Where is it? Under audio units?? Any help will be appreciated.
@prexst
4 жыл бұрын
Having the same issue
@ramspencer5492
4 жыл бұрын
It's cool but when people who write harmonies don't follow the main melody. You don't stay on the third. It works with some limitations. The choir thing is cool. You make it work. Definitely use sparingly...... You could also create a real Harmony track and just use this for extra texture harmonies. Cool....
@Duskydog419
4 жыл бұрын
great video but why not just use the default in logic to do the same. I'm new to logic, i created a bus for the pitch plugin and it fit the back up voices in pretty smooth. i was going fo that BlackStreet -"Don't leave me Girl" harmony but doing it artificially within the DAW.
@jeffagoddard
Жыл бұрын
I've been using Pitchproof occasionally, but is Quadravox by Eventide any better? Some new AI tools to try too - not sure how they are.
@AyanMukhopadhyayAudioworks
4 жыл бұрын
Thank youso much. This was extremely helpful.
@FatalBlow113
4 жыл бұрын
*This is NOT a "harmony" and with all this effort, it would be easier AND better sounding to just record multiple tracks in different tones, amazing plugin though*
@sethbecker4542
5 жыл бұрын
I use a very similar proses with clients to find them harmonies, then just have them sing along to the harmonized track.
@drinkinslim
3 жыл бұрын
What is that drum loop? I have a guy I collaborate with whose drums always sound like that and it drives me CRAZY, LOL.
@JuanOspinaKeys
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot
@smaklilu90
3 жыл бұрын
If you are only using basic I IV V progressions you might get away with this. Playing consistent third or fifth above the melody doesn't always work. If the melody note is on the fifth degree of the chord you get the 7th as a third above which doesn't sound right in some cases. Even a worse example would be if the melody note is on the 2nd degree of the chord you get the 4th as a third note above the 2nd. 4th and 3rd will clash af... etc
@dr.faisalwadood
4 жыл бұрын
Novice here. used the Pitchproof. Its good. However, I do not use Logic. Is there a substitute to the Vocal Transformer that can be used with other DAW's?
@fortheearstohear7824
9 ай бұрын
Exhausting. To much tech. I would rather open a new audio track and sing in the Harmony. part. thanks for the demo though. I hope they get better software.
@dukoo81
3 жыл бұрын
I don't like the dry voice at all. It sounds like a overpowered auto tuned voice adding harmony's to that make it even sound worst. :edit: You can create better harmony's even with a keyboard like a tyros. Its wasting your time for budet quality.
@JuanMotta
5 жыл бұрын
Muchas gracias, muy clara tu explicación. saludos
@v3rlon
Жыл бұрын
So when recording instruments like guitar, my understanding is that the best practice is to play the same part twice and pan them out left and right. This sounds better than simply duplicating the track. Would it work better singing the same part twice and applying the effects only to the harmonized parts?
@samuelandrade3117
4 жыл бұрын
For god sake...Just Record the god damm harmony ...a vocalist that cant sing a third up...? Hehehe
@IndigenousMonk
3 жыл бұрын
how can you find the key of the song if you don't know it?? also .. i think it would be good to re-record the harmony as a vocal.. using this plugin as a harmony finder..
@eman0828
4 жыл бұрын
Sounds very cheesy and unnatural. A real Producer works with the Vocalist to help get a great Vocal performance during the recording process.
@Greenmantislives
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the explanation of the formant feature... Very helpful.
@36JohnT
8 ай бұрын
Wow. What a great video. I’ve been all over the map trying to figure this out and kept getting sucked into paid sites.
@akshatpatel156
5 жыл бұрын
GREAT VIDEO you're awesome and have taught me a lot!
@broheal207
2 ай бұрын
Inhave probs to.install this plugin. Mac doesnt allow to open it. Any help?
@noawaibel874
3 жыл бұрын
ehhw i really dont like those artificial sounds, also the autotune is pretty hearable on the vocals so it might sound better with a track with a more natural sound. I dont really see where this better than just recording backing vocals...
@jebatman756
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, how about not using auto tune for your demonstration videos at least? Geez....even the original vocals are barely human anymore
@grahambird1570
4 жыл бұрын
Why not sing your own Harmony >>> as your vocal capability would be easy ????
@ghostfrom1950
3 жыл бұрын
I'm trying to find alternatives. I don't know why but this plugin makes my session crash for some reason
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