My biggest gripe with people complaining already is that we are missing the most valuable information. We don't have all the warscrolls for the armies and we do not have their points values. There is no way to pass accurate judgment without those two things
@SeasonofWar
Ай бұрын
Did it come across that we were complaining? I thought we tried to make it pretty clear when there was something we had our eye on, but are generally hopeful/optimistic about everything.
@johncastle2148
Ай бұрын
@@SeasonofWar oh no not at all. I am sorry if it came out that way. I was just saying that in case someone was feeling upset about their new rules through the faction focuses.
@SeasonofWar
Ай бұрын
@@johncastle2148 haha totally fair, and no worries - just wanted to make sure we didn't come across as being super whiny or anything lol
@danielward3568
Ай бұрын
Couldn't agree more, people need to wait for the whole picture. Seen people kicking off about gloomspite and putting their army up for sale and such. It's a stupid knee jerk reaction to a snippet of info. Season of war are covering it well and strategoi have done good coverage of the faction focus. They compare to the old as its all we have to work off, but talk alot about the changes with it and it's pretty fair coverage
@thesoothsayer9223
Ай бұрын
Insightful perspective and great attitude as always dudes. Missed the stream but got my wish for more PATAP crossover, thanks Ridge. Stoked for the new frontier of 4tj
@RidgeHanna
Ай бұрын
@Bitzpainter
Ай бұрын
I also am intrigued to see what units are unlocked by each hero. That will have such a huge impact on army building. Maybe this is the time of the god model meta because it’s likely they unlock all units in a faction.
@SeasonofWar
Ай бұрын
And looks like God models have generally had minor glow-ups from the previews so far!
@martym3815
Ай бұрын
Could be god model meta, or hero tax becomes a thing. Who knows how it'll play out!
@SeanHoltzman
Ай бұрын
@@martym3815Gonna be fun, and GW will now have the ability to nerf hero pts as a balance lever to prevent some detachments being too good -if you can only take blood knights if in one of 2 detaxhments and one isnt op and the other is, you no longer need to nerf blood knights in both. I think having that is healthy enough if theyre not taxing on detachments
@martym3815
Ай бұрын
@@SeanHoltzman good point!
@Flkt42
Ай бұрын
Very excited with the new edition! Looking forward for your games in new AOS!
@Onk3lM0
Ай бұрын
I want to invite people to take a step back and look at the double turn (and the game as a whole) from the perspective of casual players. Casual players that never go to tournaments and get to play like one or two games per month are the vast majority of people who play AoS. For those players getting double turned is devastating and can end the game very quickly. "Just play around the double!". Sure, for competitive players this is feasable since you know your opponent's army and what it can and can't do. For casual players this is very difficult because they simply lack the experience and aren't conditioned to play with so much foresight. I've seen complains that the new double turn mechanic will mean that you can't take it if you want to get on the podium at a tournament because it'll cost you points and thus you could lose a tie-breaker. Yes, that is valid criticism. But for 95%+ of players this will never matter. Most people play at their local club or game store and not at tournaments. Thus looking at everything through the lense of competitive play and warping the whole discussion around it just doesn't reflect the every day experience of casual players, even though they are the much bigger group that plays this game.
@ands1983
Ай бұрын
The flaw in your logic is that casual players can just choose to ignore that part of the rules. Play an agreed turn order like in 40k, by roll off or not, up to you.
@Onk3lM0
Ай бұрын
@@ands1983 I've never seen anyone in our club (over 70 members) just ignore or alter the game rules as they please. I would therefore assume that people don't just homebrew the game on a regular basis. Otherwise you could argue that casual players have no right to criticise anything about the game since they can just ignore or alter whatever mispleases them.
@JackCawood
Ай бұрын
The podium thing can be fixed. Just make first tie breaker strength of schedule instead of points.
@mmr6849
Ай бұрын
I mean, while i empathize with the fact that getting doubled and blown off the board can be a very disheartening thing, i don't understand how this mechanic of the game is almost always argued to be something only seasoned veterans of the game can know how to navigate. Playing around the double turn isn't really that complicated, whether you know the full extend of your opponents army or not. Like most beginners i had a quite a few tough games early on because of the double, but it didn't take me that long to learn how to adapt to it. You have to learn how to not overextend which is usually a pretty core concept of most wargames. Speaking of which, Warhammer is just that - a wargame - and wargames are supposed to be based around strategy. I don't understand why it's surprising that Games Workshop would base their design philosophies around people who actually play the game regularly and therefore know how to apply strategy to it. If you don't play the game enough to know your opponents army or have any manner to navigate the core fundamentals of it, how do you expect to not get blindsided by some of the more intricate aspects of the game, double turn or not? No offense. Also, honestly, i think saying 95% of the playerbase is casual is a pretty major exaggeration
@SeasonofWar
Ай бұрын
I would agree if drops weren't such a crippling thing - not entirely fair to be screwed by your round 1 opponent dropping out
@just_gut
Ай бұрын
My projection is that control of the double will still be desirable, but you'll want to hold control of it if possible until the last possible round. If you can double from 4 into 5 and shut down your opponent's ability to also score a battle tactic, you could really secure the game for yourself even without access to a battle tactic on that turn. You can also double if you don't have good access to a battle tactic for a turn just to try and pivot the table state into your favor because you're already going to be down the BT.
@Strade8
Ай бұрын
BTs look in general easier to achieve compared to 3 but less safe to do because of counter charges. I don't think you will find yourself often in the situation where you don't have a doable BT. The game will probably be about denying the opponent's one.
@KcBull
Ай бұрын
I think I am still trying to wrap my head around how to counter the situation you mentioned. Army 1 sends in a unit and it gets shot and counter charged by army 2. Is it best to be defensive and wait to do this to the opponent and just play a bait and counter type of style rather than going for charges and engagements? Because if I know you have a unit I dont wnat to be charged by I would save my points to spend countering it when it engages. Or is the tax on resources too high to maintain this strategy?
@blkjet117
Ай бұрын
I expect 40K Combat Patrol to follow in the footsteps of AOS Spearhead, and will be tournament ready out of the box.
@user-dr4iv5rs2v
Ай бұрын
Hi guys , my thoughts are not totally informed as still not know my pionts changes but from what I’ve seen most is okay 👌 not so pleased on the double turn but can try it out before winging lol 😂
@zachboyce9728
Ай бұрын
Ironically, I feel like the new priority incentivizes only the most toxic uses of the double turn. It’s no longer a comeback mechanic but a full send double that tables an opponent is still valid. It really serves only to punish taking a bad double turn. We’ll adjust as always, but it’s the change I’m most concerned about
@lordvladekc4846
Ай бұрын
I think that, as long as events use battle tactics as a tiebreaker, you will never take a double turn at an event (if you are playing for the top tables that is). Losing 4 points but winning the game will still guarantee that you are not winning the event anymore, unless there are no other players that score the maximum points during the event. Now you also have less game mechanics to your disposal to make the maximum points happen. In addition, casual players probably play without battle tactics (I know me and my friends do). And in that case, the rules does absolutely nothing. Not saying it is a bad thing, but I wonder who GW is catering to with this new rule.
@ands1983
Ай бұрын
The double turn isn’t going away. It’s a core part of the game as to not make it “fantasy 40k”. Let’s bury that discussion. It’ll be much more interesting to look at how they are going to start the power creep. They did the index for 8th ed 40k and fucked it up quickly when the codex releases started. How are they going to balance index vs battle tome? 4th will lose flavour but will gain streamlining and transparency. Let’s hope it sticks. Looking at the Thralls for Idoneth they’re already ruining their weapon flow by making a rule for a weapon that isn’t on the weapon profile.
@3Rad1119
Ай бұрын
Double turns need to have some trade off, so often you just get rolled and the game is over, their should be more tactical nuance
@chrisvillegas5182
Ай бұрын
is it similar to 40k 10th edition?
@cmleibenguth
Ай бұрын
Yes and No A lot of focus on core rules, unit role specialization, battleshock/bravery/morale overhauled to be more about ability to claim objective, and a focus on heroes more directly leading units --- check Magic (psychic phase) removed and just turned into abilities --- no check Heroes can only lead very specific units --- mostly no check (some exceptions) Removal of sub-factions --- kinda check / no check, it really depends on how you view subfactions (we now have formations which somewhat fill a similar niche) Homogenization and Limitation of army special abilities --- waits to be seen, maybe so maybe no --- but going into AoS 3 there was a lot of "streamlining" from AoS 2, so it's possible there has been more "streamlining"
@veisticon91
Ай бұрын
I hope not
@ands1983
Ай бұрын
They definitely streamlined a lot of stuff similar to how they changed 10th ed 40k. AoS is still very different from 40k.
@marcosayase
Ай бұрын
Mf will still take the DT unless is turn 4 or 5
@Flaekkeren
Ай бұрын
The underdog mechanic is my least liked element of 4.0 so far. It's such a bad way to try and make games more balanced. I get it makes for closer games and that is more "fun" for some people, I guess. But from a competitive standpoint it makes the game unfair. Imagine an underdog mechanic in Starcraft or ANY other game, laughable 😂
@olafolafsson2755
Ай бұрын
We had this in Heroes of the Storm. One team could dominate the opponent for 20+ min and in the late game the enemy team could just win when they got ONE opportunity to catch up. It opens the game for some swingy moment and makes it exciting to watch. But from a players standpoint, being the better and dominating player for the whole game and losing in turn 5 because of a catch up mechanic and a dice roll can be quite devastating. Especially when you go to a tournament, invest money and time to travel there and have these feelbad moments. Its completely okay to lose the game, it should be fun. But losing due to some stupid mechanic just leads to feelbad. The game should be balanced in a way, so that a catch up mechanic is just not needed
@welcometoboats
Ай бұрын
The point of the game isn’t to be competitive, it’s to be fun for both players even when there’s a skill disparity.
@Flaekkeren
Ай бұрын
@@welcometoboats lol, YOU might want that. Don't try and speak for everyone buddy
@welcometoboats
Ай бұрын
@@Flaekkeren look at the changes they’re making and tell me that they’re building this edition to be the most competitive it can be :)
@olafolafsson2755
Ай бұрын
@@welcometoboats playing competitively is very fun for many people. Being casual and just throwing dice without reasoning for hours is very stressful for me personally and feels like a timewaste.
@MKDietz
Ай бұрын
My own concern is pretty much the same thing as you guys regarding the double turn. I feel they tried to make it easier, the game in general and the double turn, but what they've done is actually made it way harder for new players to gauge when you should take it and when you should definitely not. To newer players not getting 4 points might not seem like a big difference, and that will probably lose them more games than the current way of having the double turn.
@Strade8
Ай бұрын
I don't think that the problem is about new player. They take it, they lose by four points, you don't have to be a genius to do the math and understand why you lost. The problem is that they pretty much killed it. The condition to take a double now are so slim that it would be batter to just alternate all the time.
@MKDietz
Ай бұрын
@@Strade8 hehe I get what you're saying. But that's a stretch to say they'll understand. We've got a whole bunch of people who still hate the game cause "they lost" to the double, where in reality they didn't, just cause they played poorly.
@renaukint8264
28 күн бұрын
@@MKDietz the thing is double turn can now blow up in your face, whereas in the current set not much can go wrong besides not killing enough
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