Hey Guys, this is a highly modified version when CBS DMCA'd my version with clips. I had to cut out segments because they didn't make sense with out the video. I am currently fighting it but until then, this inferior version will just have to do.
@andljoy
5 жыл бұрын
More on drumhead MORE MORE MORE!
@kronosaur417
5 жыл бұрын
An episode relevant to the times, we need more like it.
@dragonsword7370
5 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, CBS Corp. getting they're underwear in knots because your using clips and screens from a show that ended in 1994, that also has nothing to do with they're current project in anyway except name! Oh Gods the horror, they have to fir you down immediately![sarcasm] CBS is serious about annoying us aren't they?
@26th_Primarch
5 жыл бұрын
Hey remember the episode where those beetle parasite alien things that tried to taje over Starfleet in TNG?
@MasterHiramAbiff
5 жыл бұрын
OUTSTANDING!! One of your best videos to date IMHO. PLEASE do more on "The Drumhead." There is a gold mine of good stuff in this episode. (As you said, you could do a series on this episode. It;s got a ton of meat on it. Sadly, these are very relevant topics for this country right now. YOU ROCK!
@danielmcneally8001
5 жыл бұрын
Do all of it. The quote that Picard uses when he's on trial is one of my favorites. I think this episode explores how passion can get the best of us. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied - chains us all, irrevocably."
@STSWB5SG1FAN
5 жыл бұрын
Strangely that quote was literally taken from one of our founding fathers (Ben Franklin I believe). I often remember that quote when I read about how student protestors deny someone the right to speak on campus (both sides do this). I wonder how old Ben, and the rest, would feel about how we've maintained their legacy.
@Warp10x
5 жыл бұрын
Pfft that's what someone who consorts with Romulans would say.
@xuto2693
5 жыл бұрын
Censor of speech is easy to spot. Perversion of law is more insidious. How many people think innocent people should be compensated for time spend waiting for trial in jail? Or if charges are dropped? Basically no one, but that's what innocent until proven guilty would really mean.
@26th_Primarch
5 жыл бұрын
The *ONE* time an Oberth functions properly...
@basevegeta9424
5 жыл бұрын
Villans who sit around twirling there mustache are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged.....
@altrocks
5 жыл бұрын
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross."
@Excalibur01
5 жыл бұрын
@@altrocks the problem is they don't want a cross. They wish to burn it...which is ironic because they accuse people to be "fascists" and associate with those who have historically burned crosses
@seanmcgrath3826
5 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of an adage I heard once: the last act of any democracy is to elect a dictatorship.
@DMSProduktions
5 жыл бұрын
Fascism has infected America since WW1!
@travisshortsmith
5 жыл бұрын
Well camouflaged huh? Well when she broke the federations 7th guarantee to destroy Simon Tarses everyone kept on following her. It wasn’t until she went after the great Picard people saw what she was
@Chrismasterski
5 жыл бұрын
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied chains us all irrevocably."
@micahottaway8455
5 жыл бұрын
The Patriot Act comes to mind when this episode is discussed, it was a warning for what was going to come. Our constitutional rights are slowly and surely being eroded by fear and hate mongering. This episode needs to be discussed further.
@rifleman2c997
5 жыл бұрын
Great work on this. A timeless message that is very relevant today. And if we sacrifice our liberty, in the search to find the guilty, we have lost. The Federation might as well call itself a Star Empire if they can justify violating all sorts of civil liberties if it means finding that one person. And Lore, truly evil people never think of themselves as evil. They do things out of a sense of that they are doing is good.
@Ozzy_2014
5 жыл бұрын
The topic is universal and timeless. Vigilance is always the price of freedom.
@Marcus51090
5 жыл бұрын
*Setti now works at cbs she’s the ceo* lol
@keitht24
5 жыл бұрын
Naw I think she works in the current presidential administration.
@grondhero
5 жыл бұрын
@@keitht24 You're clearly not paying attention. Mueller's investigations have brought about zero credibility of any Russian collusion *after three years of a witch hunt.* Mueller's team are now arresting people for non-related things or incidents that came up because of the investigation (x told us one story then, told us a different now, arrest x for lying).
@keitht24
5 жыл бұрын
@@grondhero Mueller has brought several indictments & numerous people connected to Trump had meetings with Russian officials, including Trump Jr.
@grondhero
5 жыл бұрын
@@keitht24 Unless there's been a new, imagined one, the Trump Jr. meeting was concocted by a 3rd party, the Russians never showed up and Trump Jr. eventually left. In addition, Trump Jr.'s meeting at the time would not have been illegal. Again, it's a witch hunt by petty people.
@jamesburke3413
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for covering "The Drumhead". It's one of my favorite Next Generation episodes.
@JohnSmith-or8rh
5 жыл бұрын
I definitely would like you to made a vid that goes into more detail regarding "The Drumhead". Based on the current real life events that are going on, "The Drumhead" is STILL a highly relevant episode. "Witch Hunts" and "Mob Rule" ALWAYS leads to chaos and disaster.
@keitht24
5 жыл бұрын
You have no idea what you're talking about. It witch hunts & mob rule are a part of it. But you conveniently left the racism, racial profiling & xenophobia at the heart of the episode. The man in question was literally targeted because of his racial ancestry.
@JohnSmith-or8rh
5 жыл бұрын
Yawn. Is that REALLY the best response that you got? I'm an African American male, so I DO in fact "know what I'm talking about" regarding those topics that you brought up. So, please spare me with your reactionary nonsense. Actually, your response proves my point EXACTLY. Instead of reading and understanding what the episode AND my point was about, you willing allowed yourself to become "triggered", and responded like a petulant 12 year old on a "Witch Hunt". "Witch hunts" and "Mob rule" comes in MANY forms, INCULDING racism, so you can stop trying to feebly attempt to justify your bad behavior, and instead, LISTEN and reflect, instead of simply REACTING.
@idlehands1864
2 жыл бұрын
@@keitht24 Well then he had an idea of what he was talking about now didn't he? He just didn't address the insanity of having one group pay for the transgressions of people they have never met, have any loyalty to and who they may actively disagree with. Mob justice and witch hunts are intrical to the ability to do that.
@ZemplinTemplar
5 жыл бұрын
I am very glad you point out the episode doesn't really have a conventional villain. It has an antagonist in Satie, but the real abstract villain is our susceptibility to paranoia, even if we excuse it by seemingly reasonable concerns. Picard puts it best with his remark on how "The road from legitimate suspicion to rampant paranoia is very much shorter than we think.". I fully believe Satie was determined to do her job - defending the Federation from spies et al - to the best of her abilities... but along the way, all that renown and power she already had simply got to her head. That Picard has to very pointedly remind her of the words of her own father, a no less famous figure, just underlines the entire tragedy.
@JohnDiMarco
5 жыл бұрын
"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved." -Benjamin Franklin
@wdcain1
5 жыл бұрын
Apparently the Federation has very lenient views on civil liberties since DS9 showed Odo could suspend Hebeas Corpus to hold suspects indefinitely with no trial and VOY showed Janeway could lock up Federation citizens in solitary confinement far beyond today's standards and Harry Kim had to wear a monitoring device simply because he talked to a former Maquis member in that timeline where he never joined Janeway's crew. Chalk it up to bad writing but SFDebris does show these are talking points worth discussing.
@placomsonat9483
5 жыл бұрын
I agree, however Odo wears a bajoran uniform so it might not be Starfleet. I don't actually know the episode so let me know if I'm wrong.
@ChosenTrekie1983
5 жыл бұрын
I believe DS9 was actually under Bajoran jurisdiction and their laws, I could be wrong though. As for Kim I see it as a Starfleet officer that's working on a classified project suddenly talking to a known former terrorist, since that's basically how Starfleet saw the maqui, why wouldn't they want to keep an eye on him. And I agree with you when it comes to Paris's punishment, but that could be a result of Janeway going off book cause they were out of the reach of the federation.
@wdcain1
5 жыл бұрын
@@ChosenTrekie1983 It just seems Trek is lettered with moments like this, even in TNG such as _Measure of a Man._ Netchea told Riker that if he refused to advocate Data's dismantling (despite the justifiable conflict of interest) then Data would be immediately declared property. Imagine this same situation in any other court case: "You don't want to prosecute the plaintiff because you're related? Then he will be found GUILTY!" The Federation really seems to be an authoritarian government with no civil protections, just one where its citizens are largely content content through modern conveniences.
@dragonknightleader1
5 жыл бұрын
@@wdcain1 No, it's like not Answering a Summons. Riker was summoned by the JAG to serve as counsel. If he refused, he refused to fill out his Answer on behalf of his client and the court defaults to the plaintiff.
@kenjett2434
5 жыл бұрын
This is a great topic to go futher into simply because it has real world implications. Its especially relevant with what is going on in our country today. Far to often now days it seems accusations is all it takes to consider someone guilty.
@altrocks
5 жыл бұрын
Guess it depends on who is accused and who is doing the accusing.
@kenjett2434
5 жыл бұрын
@@altrocks see that is where the problem is. By law if doesnt matter who does the accusation or who is the accused. They should never be treated as guilty till the evidence has been put out and weighed. Another thing they should be consequences for anyone who has been found making false accusations. Thats something that has been lost in law. In the Bible they was serious consequences for false witnesses.
@stevenclark5173
5 жыл бұрын
@@kenjett2434 The Bible also proscribes shaving women's heads who talk too much and killing/enslaving people of other tribes so I don't think we should be looking to such a book for any moral guidance. Also, by law, no one is treated as guilty. Unfortunately the court of public opinion is not the same nor has it ever been nor will it ever be.
@kenjett2434
5 жыл бұрын
@@stevenclark5173 i dont know what bible your reading but mine doesn't say that. Quite often though bible verses are taken out of the context they were written. By taking partial lines or versus and misquoting them when often the meaning is lost by removing versus before and after that sets up the meaning.
@Zebojr2kool
5 жыл бұрын
Steven Clark you know dude if some one uses the Bible to justify being good, try not be an asshole and say well the Bible also say blah blah blah bad thing. Cause dude frankly they’re isn’t a single thing out that can’t be used to justify evil. But you are right about the mob. Personally I think we need to ban twitter.
@tr0ublerising
5 жыл бұрын
I want to point out the fact that Vulcans and Romulans are essentially the same species, only main differences between the two are cultural. So, while technically his Grandfather was Romulan by culture, he could have defected and started living as a Vulcan. So which would technically make his "lie" just a different shade of truth. Squares and Rectangles essentially.
@ese4262
5 жыл бұрын
May the plan wasn't to destroy the enterprise. Just let the federation tear itself apart though parinoia and intrigue???
@altrocks
5 жыл бұрын
Sounds like a typical Romulan plot.
@vickas54
5 жыл бұрын
Maybe a ploy, to start a war....? :D
@MrPingn
5 жыл бұрын
Fits. Get your enemy to tear itself apart and they'll be weaker if you have to fight them.
@jasonleslie203
3 жыл бұрын
Thats how you do it.
@Kundalini12
5 жыл бұрын
Admiral Henry and his dramatic walk out when Picard is being basically threatened is one of the best moments of the entire series and this episode. Satie is like ah I fucked this up.
@dragonknightleader1
5 жыл бұрын
The Admiral's attitude is pretty much my reaction to unjust politics.
@archades115
5 жыл бұрын
Star Trek and George Orwell were warning us about the future. Instead the masses used them as guidelines. I do love these philosophical videos. Keep up the great work!
@alexanderdeburdegala4609
5 жыл бұрын
Hell yeah do a deeper dive. I like your presentation here. Bravo.
@TentaclePentacle
5 жыл бұрын
No Satie is evil if anyone deserves to be called evil she does. Satie gets off from persecuting others. Remember her words to picard: *"I have brought down bigger man than you"* That proves she gets off from bringing down big man. It doesn't matter if they are guilty, all it matters is to bring them down. So she is not acting in the interest of the federation, she is acting for her own gratification and her own power. That's what makes her evil. Lore is wrong Satie does not have good intentions. Most of today's SJWs have that Satie mentality.
@tarn1135
5 жыл бұрын
TentaclePentacle this is probably a controversial opinion but here goes. She not evil. She was driven. Misguided and went too far yes. As was said in this video the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It happens more often then you think. By arguably good people. During the course of this particular episode she became more and more convinced of a bigger plot and started seeing romulans around every corner. Again that doesn’t make her evil. Hitler was evil. Stalin was evil. This woman was not. There is a difference. If you want to take this to a modern real world equivalent just look back to this last weekend with those kids in DC. The mob tried and convicted those kids before anything was really shown or proved. What we had was sound bytes and that unfortunately is the media/journalism today they don’t verify anything anymore. The mob saw red hat = evil. The mob saw white kid = evil. The mob saw older man = good. The mob saw native american = good. That’s it. End of story as far as the mob saw. They it came out that the evil white kid wearing a red hat did nothing. In fact it came out another group was hurling racist slurs and provoking an argument and this old Native American guy had already decided who was in the wrong and made events to fit his narrative. So he decided to confront the evil white kids in the red hats. Does that make this old guy evil? I don’t think so. I think he’s an opportunist not evil. He lied afterwards either knowingly or unknowingly, yes he may have thought he heard things that were not said that makes it unknowingly. The people in the other group are not evil. Stupid yes. Evil? No because they did not act on their words. They were saying things to provoke it they did not act in what they were saying. The act is where the difference ones in.
@TentaclePentacle
5 жыл бұрын
@Ryan Klewicki Can we agree that this woman is not stupid? If she is not stupid then she would know picard is not a romulan collaborator, and yet she is putting him on trial as a collaborator. She wanted to bring picard down. What makes her evil is not that she wanted to bring down people, what makes her evil is that she *enjoyed* bringing down people. What makes hitler evil? What makes stalin evil? You can argue hitler had good intentions, you can argue Stalin had good intentions. Let's take this covington story. Even today, there is mainstream media reporter still claiming the kids were in the wrong, they are still smearing the kids even today. Are those people not evil? Do they have good intentions? We don't know people's intentions, but what is a hallmark of evil is taking joy of someone's suffering, taking joy of someone's downfall. That's what's truly evil.
@tarn1135
5 жыл бұрын
TentaclePentacle I’ll agree she is not stupid. Now it’s been many years since I’ve seen this episode but I don’t believe she ever said she enjoyed taking people down. I do believe it was said she was very good at it and that would come from the dogged determination she has when prosecuting people. I don’t think think a person being single focused in the course of their job makes them evil. See I think we are getting hung up on the term evil. I think the attempted extermination of entire races of people is evil but I also agree that people who intentionally go out of their way to hurt people, be it physically or mentally, are also a form of evil. To the media of today with that DC shit-show I don’t know if they are evil as so much as they are all in cover their ass mode. Apologizing to a republican or conservative for being wrong seems to be so far out there that I don’t know if they even realize what they are doing. Seems to me we basically agree this lady in the show was not a good person we are just disagreeing on how “bad” she was. As we are in the realm of geekdom there is an outstanding character study of this in comic form. Look up Transformers: More than Meets the eye from IDW. The writer breaks his story arcs into tv seasons. In the “second season” , issue 23 or 24 I think, the big bad of the TF universe surrenders and switches sides. We spend almost the whole second season with the guy who is essentially robot Hitler being around the good guys. It truly is some of the best writing I’ve ever read.
@TentaclePentacle
5 жыл бұрын
@Ryan Klewicki ofcouse people like that will never come out and say it. But she did take joy in it. She see so aroused when she said "I have brought down bigger man than you". Killing or even genocide is not necessary evil, it's the reason for such things that makes people evil. Ofcouse I'm using a very narrow definition of evil, because we can not know what's in a person's heart, but we can see whey they take joy in their actions. That is why I have stated only true evil is wheater or not someone takes joy in horrific actions. That goes to the core of someone's character. You can justify almost every action with your intentions. We can't determine someone's intentions but we can determine their state of arousal. Satie was aroused when she put picard on trial. There is no reason to put picard on trial unless she enjoys taking down a "big man".
@andrewwblanchard6037
5 жыл бұрын
ADMIRAL SATIE is more like the EXTREME RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS and MEDIA PERSECUTING PEOPLE for imaginary or exaggerated crimes to make themselves feel better and to declare ANYONE and EVERYONE they don't like as the ENEMY
@juntakyle
5 жыл бұрын
This video really hits as it happens at the same time as the Covington magahat kids. It turns out they are innocent of everything they were accused of.. but then people continue to dig to find any little thing they can, guilt by association, happenstance and unrelated events just to damn these kids they were so sure were guilty.
@juntakyle
5 жыл бұрын
@Z'Q you are attributing motive to them you couldn't possibly know, likely out of your own bias. I am still not even convinced it was "mocking" some are singing along with him while other make gestures with their hands. Even if mockery was their motive they would have been well within their right. The adults were the aggressors and were harassing the children, even the native group made racist comments. Meanwhile Nathan Philip's has been exposed lying countless times and was banging a drum in a child's face while another in his group told the kids to go back to europe. He was the adult there yet chose to harass the children who were already victims of a literal hate groups harassment. (Notice they didnt engage or stand up to the racists, but the white conservatives). Nathan now wants money and changed his story 5 times, as well as got caught lying about being a Vietnam veteran. 100% a harasser of children and a con artist. You need to examine your own biases and internal prejudice. We have three groups two groups of adults and one group of children. The only group that did not act in a racist way was the children, yet you choose to comb through for any action you could attribute to even slightly possibly be offensive the children did. This is why this episode is so meaningful to the Covington kids. You seem to have missed the point and played the role of the retired admiral well.
@juntakyle
5 жыл бұрын
@Z'Q NP changed his story 5 times each time video evidence proved him wrong. He also claimed he was a vietnam vet who served in theater which was not true. He was a reserve that joined a year after vietnam, went AWOL three times and was processed out as a private (though honorably) 4 years as a private means you messed up a lot. (I'm a veteran source dude trust me) Mocking someone's actions is not inherently racist, even if we are to pretend we know the motive of the victims of Nathan's harassment. Some kids seemed to be having a good time. Unless you are one of those cultural appropriation regressives, the arguement of imitating being racist doesnt make sense. No ones trying to arrest the kids... just ya know... ruin their lives. Nathan wants them expelled from school as well. So yeah. You need to examine your own biases and prejudice. I would imagine most the hate and racism you see is your own being projected onto others. Also apperently to you Truth/Facts/Reality = Right Wing PR firm... which gave me a laugh... but it's kind of true when I think about it. Left wing anti-liberal ideals cannot exist when exposed to reality. ;)
@juntakyle
5 жыл бұрын
@Z'Q Details of his 5 stories can be found on countless videos I would suggest following Tim Pool a center left independent journalist who covered his lies. Nathan Philip's also faked a hate crime a few years ago though I'm fuzzy on the details (believe tim did a video on that as well) We first have to assume the hand gestures and chants were in fact mocking him and not independent which we cant really say... then we would have to know motive. If they were mocking a assholes actions who is harassing them it's not racist, if they mocked him for being native then yes racist. So your original assertion that they acted in a racist manner requires two variables you couldn't possibly know yet choose to assume the worst. All while seemingly ignoring or excusing the Black Israelites and the native Americans definitive racist and aggressive actions. As for the black kid being shot by cops.. that's a whole other parallel but not for the reasons you think. Most of those cases were media reporting before the facts or omitting the facts and the "finding a reason" they had to die part is just the facts of the case coming out. For instance the "hands up dont shoort" moto that came from the M. Brown case came from a later retracted witness statement that M. Brown had his hands up when shot. This was false, actual eye whitness accounts said brown was charging the officer and forensics verified it. The truth matters, even if it hurts your feelings its important. Both cases are similar because of the irrisponsibility of left wing media that cannot be bothered to fact check, check their sources, or wait to report until the truth is known.
@juntakyle
5 жыл бұрын
@Z'Q (post 2, see previous post as wrll) Wanna really blow your mind and get red pilled to reality? Look up every "hate crime" left wing media reported on post Nov 2016. Literally EVERY one was faked. The left wing activist media outlets almost never retracted or updated the stores. Also left wing media outlets use archive blockers to prevent people from tracking and documenting their fake news, changes to stories and stealth corrections/additions/deletions. While not a single conservative slanted news website blocks archiving. Go get red pilled my friend. Reality is out there and waiting for you when you are ready to see it. Facts first!
@mattheww2797
5 жыл бұрын
The least they could have done is send a tow truck, guess Picard didn't keep up his AAA membership, seriously though this episode only works because of Patrick Stewart's amazing performance in the court room scene, he totally just steals the entire episode in those couple of minutes. This is one of those timeless pieces of Star Trek that I always keep coming back to, real hard earned lessons from this one here!
@jhmcd2
5 жыл бұрын
The reality is that this happens a lot in the real world. There have been several cases recently where the person was innocent of the original crime, but judges, lawyers and prosecutors will go out of their way to find anything else that they can be punished for in order to appease the people and themselves. I know of one case in particular but I won't list it here. The drumhead is unfortunately a very real scenario and I get why they did it. If the episode was able to have been longer, I am sure were would have been able to see more with both the Klingon and Tarsis, but that's the problem when everything must be summed up in an hour (although one guy, I forget his name, but he did a nice review on Wrath of Khan and how it was Kirk's fault and how the produces took advantage of that for the plot of the movie). I would have to re-watch the episode (after I finish re-watching Stargate I plan one re-watching the Trek franchise in Chronological order so...) but from what I remember, Picard I think has doubts about Tarsis not because he was one of their own, but because I think by this point he had overall doubts about the investigation, and wondered if they were starting a witch hunt. But I will have to re-watch it to see.
@jamoecw
5 жыл бұрын
they came for the klingon and i stayed silent because it was not me. they came for the ensign and i stayed silent because it was not me. then they came for me and there was no one left to defend me.
@dramonmaster222
5 жыл бұрын
Once again, Prime Star Trek proves how relevant it is even years later.
@Anglomachian
5 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite scenes in this episode is when Picard tries to talk Satee out of the whole thing, only to have it pointed out that he employed similar methods that she was using for a similar purpose. Picard admitting he might need to re-evaluate his methods was quite satisfying
@ussakira7294
5 жыл бұрын
Setti asked Picard why he did not try 2 retrieve the Romulan spy from the Warbird who had disguised as a Vulcan Ambassador 2 spy on the Federation from a previous episode , Worf said that the Enterprise was out numbered by The D'Deridax Warbirds & that the Enterprise could have been captured but setti would not listen
@johncampbell481
5 жыл бұрын
Alan Baker yeah. Not to mention that dialogue earlier on in the series hints at 1 D'Deridex being more than on par with the Enterprise D. Picard made the right call.
@ussakira7294
5 жыл бұрын
@@johncampbell481 Yeh u r right there
@voxkine9385
5 жыл бұрын
This and the episode where they debate Data’s right to choose (can’t remember episode name) are two of my favourite episodes and why I love Star Trek! The more philosophical episodes really were where Star Trek shined.
@Ozzy_2014
5 жыл бұрын
You mean measure of a man? Where they debated whether he was property or person.
@anakinsolo719
5 жыл бұрын
Measure of a Man I believe
@voxkine9385
5 жыл бұрын
Yes, measure of a man! Thanks!
@brentaughe7539
5 жыл бұрын
Its a great story on a reflection of today. Society is quick to judge, even when not all the facts are present. WE also want to make sure that we, as individuals, look good. It is an easy trap to fall into. As far as the way the Klingon was treated vs the Crew member, looking at my own military carrer, I can see how Tarsis was treated a little bit better. Picard and crew are trying to protect one of their own. Yes he will face punishment, maybe even separation from Starfleet for lying. The US military has many members from different religions and backgrounds. If Starfleet kicked him out just because he is part Romulan, then Starfleet would be hypracritical.
@dragonknightleader1
5 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day, that Klingon transfer officer was a transfer officer. The most the Feds can do is give him back. Considering Klingon Law, I wouldn't want to go back if I were him and I think he said as much.
@CeticWales
5 жыл бұрын
Please can you do a part 2 (or even a series), it is a very interesting analysis of a great episode of TNG. Love your channel by the way. Keep up the great work!
@sergeantassassin3425
5 жыл бұрын
The Drumhead ABSOLUTELY deserves its own breakdown. This is, without a doubt, in the Top 5 best TNG episodes. Picard has several memorable and quotable moments in the episode, one occurring when he confronts Worf in the Briefing Room, and another when he's confronting the assembly and firing back at Satie. Just SO many good quotes. This episode was a glorious thing to watch, and it deserves every bit of breakdown you can give it.
@jaspr1999
5 жыл бұрын
Yes, I very much would love to see a further breakdown of this episode. As a real-world possible scenario: A management team wanted an employees' wife to bring his computer to his workplace during an investigation. The employee was adamant that this not be done and demanded law enforcement to be called. The wife eventually did call in law-enforcement and the rights of the employee were upheld. However, any trust the employee had built up over the years was destroyed and he could no longer do his job because of the fiasco. Innocence or guilt has very little to do with anything when mob mentality issues a judgment.
@TheMarcHicks
5 жыл бұрын
This episode is up there with Inner Light & Lower Decks as one of my all time favourite episodes. More break downs of this episode would be greatly appreciated.
@richardkenan2891
5 жыл бұрын
Everybody is the hero of her own story. Even the ones who are villains. And Sati is a villain. As Picard's quote points out, she is utterly betraying the Federation's core principles as stated by her own father. At some point we have to decide on standards by which to judge people, and unless your standards are utterly contemptible, Sati falls far short. She's just a horrible person. She may have been a decent person at one point, but she lost sight of the principles she was trying to protect and no longer needed anything other than her inquisition to justify that inquisition. At that point, she's just another petty tyrant looking to become bigger than merely petty.
@tompatterson4316
5 жыл бұрын
I think you should go deeper. Also I like this episode because it began to deviate from Rodenberry's almost perfect vision of the Federation. It showed that the Federation is fallible and thus more relatable.
@gedizaksit
5 жыл бұрын
I think the strongest episodes of trek revolves around moral questions on Justice. It invokes a strong reaction because as a society our sense of justice and the laws governing us seldom overlap.
@terrancechilds3049
2 жыл бұрын
My God this was one hell of an episode this shows John lupecard at his absolute best
@tba113
5 жыл бұрын
Damn fine analysis, Lore - thank you! Personally, I think Satie's goals are so thoroughly tainted by her methods that her heart is no longer in the right place. Put another way, she is (or has become) evil. As Lore observes, she is after a conviction, not the truth - and I believe that was always her goal. If the convict by chance happened to be guilty, then all the better - but as far as she's concerned, a conviction would signal Starfleet's willingness to hound out bad people in general just as well. The fact that the "bad people" might not have done anything related to the crime being investigated is irrelevant. Thus, while she may _want_ a secure Federation, I can't really say that anything she does would work to move the Federation toward that goal - and given her rank and seniority, I have to conclude that she's smart enough to know better. That means she either justifies her brutality on the basis of knowing some horrifying existential secret about the Star Trek universe that the audience doesn't (which would make an amazing premise for a Trek series), or she justifies it on the basis of looking good in the papers being more important than any particular case. In the first scenario, she might be doing evil things to avoid bigger problems. That sort of debate over whether ends justify means is right up Trek's alley, a'la _Pale_ _Moonlight_ - though Trek largely concludes that she would still be considered evil. In the second, she is equivalent to the worst kind of sleazy politician: not only do the ends justify any possible means, but the stakes for the ends aren't even that high. Given how the Federation thinks, the likely outcome of the whole incident is mild embarrassment, and a bunch of organizational headaches as plans and deployments that might have been exposed are rearranged. Even if the Enterprise had been destroyed, it's not like the Federation would go to war over just that one ship. So in this second scenario, she also comes off as evil.
@dragonknightleader1
5 жыл бұрын
Every prosecutor working for the State is like Satie. They have to be because their performance is evaluated on convictions, not determining who is actually guilty.
@xuto2693
5 жыл бұрын
@@dragonknightleader1 And that is our failure as a society. That we nurture law and order as slogan and not belief.
@Sarepion
5 жыл бұрын
Good video. I would like to see the series you discussed. I don't see Satie's motives as pure as you described. She was raised in a household where the adversarial aspect of law was emphasized, and winners won fathers approval. She wants to win. Like the Judge Advocate in "Measure of a Man," I think she does believe it is the best way to do right by the situation.
@xuto2693
5 жыл бұрын
Have to agree. Winning is her concern. A cancer that has ravaged criminal justice in most developed worlds.
@JohnSmith-xq1pz
5 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't they be more interested in capturing the flagship of the Starfleet?
@classicforreal
5 жыл бұрын
How can you not get EVERYTHING IS AWESOME thanks KZitem commercials!
@potandpoliticswithmr.broph1420
5 жыл бұрын
Dude, this is great. Very on point, very relevant, and very insightful.
@sbvera13
5 жыл бұрын
'Drumhead' has the Picardiest of all Picard speaches. How can you not follow that up? Also, IIRC, BBC America aired this episode the day after the 2016 election (it may have been the inauguration. My memory is fuzzy). Hmm...
@timash1927
5 жыл бұрын
I would love to watch you break stuff like this down further! Great video as usual!
@robinvik1
4 жыл бұрын
Me: "You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." Cop: "Sir, please stop urinating into the water fountain."
@mrbojangles8133
5 жыл бұрын
Tarses Romulan blood, how much of a crime was it under UFP law. it US army during WW2 individuals with a German or Italian grand parent fought. I know it's not quite the same but US law forms part of the basis because for American audiences this isceasy to grasp
@johnnydoe7616
5 жыл бұрын
Of course Starfleet took the investigation seriously. The former Admiral arrived in an Oberth class of all things. What else would you expect? I galaxy class? You’re out of your mind 😋
@Liopleurodon
5 жыл бұрын
Watching the Drumhead, Homefront+Paradise Lost of DS9 and compare it to actuall news is more horror than an dedicated horror movie. So, in the spirit of Orvilles Majority Rules, I will give you an upvote
@travisshortsmith
5 жыл бұрын
Lore I will grant worf and Satie working together fits, but at 4:34 I’m stopping to write this ! The second Satie trail against Simon Tarses worf should have saw that second what she was. Let me explain Worf was raised on earth, he was raised by human parents, he went to a human earth school, and he would have known before hand about the 7th guarantee, protection against race in legal proceedings, that is a core of the whole federation. Oh and by the way I know this because of worf’s reaction when Picard talks about a drumhead trail and the 7th guarantee. And his excuse that he didn’t see what she was,........ are you kidding me? She just broke one of the core constitutional rights of the federation and he doesn’t see this ? Now judan the Klingon gee the crew trays him like he’s guilty and you think that’s wrong? Well why is he acting guilty? He’s lying so badly I knew the fucker was guilty and so did Riker. It took serval minutes for them to tell me what I already knew HE IS GUILTY!!!!!!!! The warp core hatch explosion Clue #1 No Romulan force. In fact we get nothing from them. Clue #2 No one knows why it happened. Later In the episode data finds out that a untraceable defect weakened the hatch and there was no Romulan plot?!! My friends knew that 30 minute ago, and now we come to the royal crown of bullshit!!!! Untraceable means just that, you have no explanation what or why it happened!!! You are telling me that the most advanced warp core in the federation, that will only be out done by the enterprise E, built a hatch for a device that when it explodes will cause the death of over one thousand federation citizens and yet they could not find a defect that a fucking Android somehow found. What they never tested the fucking thing? The us military tests the shit out they’re stuff before sending it out, but the federation In this episode doesn’t do shit? Lore this episode is beyond bad this racism or paranoia you talk about this isn’t true racism or paranoia, I’ve been on the receiving end of both. This is bullshit racism and bullshit paranoia, Exposing someone else does. Not magically fix the problem as we see here, no it starts with looking inside yourself and making a choice. It starts with saying no I will respect you I will listen to you. I respect what you say lore, but I do think you are way off on this.
@seekertwo1
5 жыл бұрын
Question: Does the UFP Charter have any rules about freedom of the press? Did the average Federation citizen have any knowledge of events like this or Leyton's attempted coup?
@King_George_VI
5 жыл бұрын
I dunno if you will even see this, but I still wanted to say that this very well might be your best analysis you have done. It would be very easy to slap a ‘xenophobic and/or over-zealous nutter’ tag onto Sattee(?) or Worf, but when one pauses and looks at the beginning (especially the beginning of the episode), one would see that both are merely trying to do what they feel is right and want to protect the Federation and the USS Enterprise. Does that make them right or negate their actions? No. I’m sort of rambling now, so I’ll just again say that this was a very thoughtful and well balanced analysis. Bloody good job mate! Cheers
@Acorn_of_Mars
5 жыл бұрын
This is a wonderful episode, easily with hours of analysis possible. Memorable quotes to explore, actions, reactions, motivations to consider... I would definitely watch and enjoy an in-depth breakdown.
@hellfish2309
5 жыл бұрын
Wild conjecturing: a Section 31 asset sabotaged the warp core hatch
@seanmcgrath3826
5 жыл бұрын
Why would they? Section 31 works behind the scenes to counter Enemy threats, the enterprise & its crew are definitely not that
@hellfish2309
5 жыл бұрын
Sean McGrath isn’t it entirely within the meta of 31 to have some kind of asset onboard the Federation flagship? And just in situations just like this: circumstances ripe for ramping up the security state...
@seanmcgrath3826
5 жыл бұрын
@@hellfish2309 Good point.
@HeKnowsNotForever
5 жыл бұрын
Follow up on this kind sir, please and thank you. One of my fav episodes ever! And it sucks about CBS giving you crap. That’s the worse.
@MetaSynForYourSoul
5 жыл бұрын
I think you should do a series on court proceedings in Star Trek or Sci Fi in general. The Drumhead, The Measure of a Man, and Rules of Engagement (DS9) come immediately to mind. I would love to see you not only breakdown each episode but also talk about how court dramas in Sci Fi are used as a whole.
@Blue_Cooper
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for looking at this episode. It’s scary because of how this could happen in real life. One of my favorite TNG episodes. Makes you think
@RimaNari
5 жыл бұрын
This episode finally came up in my current re-watch of TNG. So, time watch this lore video (series) properly now. You did a really fantastic job with this one, Lore. However, I have one issue with it... so you say that the evil begins when Satie is able to make Picard and Worf focus solely on the spy as a suspect of the alledged sabotage. However, I believe this is the logical course of action at the time. Apart from the spy everyone else who could have sabotaged the ship is a crew member, and naturally one does not consider an inside job as the first option, especially not if there is a very plausible alternative. At this time they did not have any information on whether it was an accident or sabotage because of the radiation, so it makes sense to spend the time investigating a possible sabotage act of the proven spy. The real evil begins later, when Satie focuses on Tarses having lied about *something*, without knowing what it is.
@WhiteWeaseI
5 жыл бұрын
Do more. This episode is not only timeless, but more relevant than ever. It seems like people today are more interested in delivering retribution than finding out if the person(s)in question actually did anything wrong. Just like cardassia.
@critter30002001
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the episode. It is highly relevant, especially after this last week in the real world. That said there is a couple of points that I think should be mentioned. If the Starfleet regulations are like militaries on Earth like the US then Tarsus merely violates regulations not laws when he lied on his application. That means he is still liable to being kicked out of Starfleet, but probably won’t be up for prison. Now the ‘bad guys’ lied under oath in a court case. That is a crime. In the case of US military that means anything they learn or reveal will be thrown out. Just saying. Great video though! Really love it, and the direction you went!
@divergentsenior
Жыл бұрын
Nice summation. One of my favorite episodes. That speech of Picard's should make even the most indoctrinated take another look at what is real and what is memorex (old commercial reference for those under 50). Filmed decades ago, this episode is eerily similar to where are today.
@ameelmd
5 жыл бұрын
best video I've seen from you so far. I love your lore, opinion, explanations, but breaking down themes and connecting it's relevance is very trek, in my opinion. I couldn't think of a better episode to do this with. great job!!
@degwprime
5 жыл бұрын
Please do more parts for this. The parallels with modern society are striking & compelling. I'm going to have to rewatch Next Generation.
@jamesdelorto6933
5 жыл бұрын
Definitely worth more examination. One point to consider/discuss would be difference between civilian and military court/justice process and expectation.
@julius-stark
5 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see a deeper dive on this episode, also maybe think about adding episodes like Random Thoughts/Retrospect from Voyager for other "timely" themes.
@kory1280
5 жыл бұрын
'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured... the first thought forbidden... the first freedom denied - chains us all irrevocably.' I find it funny how such a small line from 1991 is still so relevant to this day from a fictional character never even seen on screen. The Drumhead is definitely a favorite episode of mine as well, though mostly for the absolute decimation of Satie at the end, the destruction of someone so villainous, so...familiar in this day and age. It just feels so very...right and satisfying one wishes it could happen more often.
@Dan__S
5 жыл бұрын
I really dig this! It couldn't be more applicable to the abusive, toxic, mob like mentality of sjws and other extreme types who don't care about truth.
@brokeneyes6615
5 жыл бұрын
Telepaths anf their use in “future law”. Trio I’d just a human lie detector but a full blooded betazed reads thoughts. That has some rather interesting impacts on this whole episode, can you have justice when your mind can be read, anf used, against you by a being with a morality that may find you guilty for thinking the wrong thing, or worse thinking thr right thing but bring accused of thinking the wrong thing.
@shaunlomness4555
5 жыл бұрын
The Drumhead makes a good point about our modern society today. Another episode that is good is the two parter on DS9 season 4 - Paradise Lost and Homefront. I think a discussion about these episodes would interesting to have. Since they strike such a stocking truth about our post 911 world today.
@rlj151
5 жыл бұрын
This was good. Battlestar Galactica (2003) had a similar episode. The tribunal started to investigate outside of what they were put together for (and had no political oversight). Until it, meaning his security chief, started going after Adama and the president. He finally had enough and shut it down. the tribunal was going to use force of arms to force him to testify, but he told them he had more solders than they did and that they were done. The now former security chief started to rail on Adama, and he had her arrested. Her character was never seen again. I can't remember which specific episode it was, but it was within the first couple episodes.
@navarrofamilyproject
5 жыл бұрын
This was a great video, I teach legal theories and this is one of my favorites. I love how the law can be manipulated and how quickly "Inter arma enim silent lēgēs" sets in. I would love to see the breakdown of the two trials in light of Federation morals/ethics and law. Thanks for the great content!
@Ginger_FoxxVT
5 жыл бұрын
"Hello Admiral, today we will be taking you to the court hearing on my Oberth class ship" "Oh and on an unrelated note could I get you to sign your last will now? Just to get it out of the way yknow, totally unrelated"
@xuto2693
5 жыл бұрын
Criminal justice issues are probably my greatest thing to really have moral issues with. The catastrophic damage an unchecked and perverted system can cause can be terminal to a society. And we're seeing it now. This episode only touches on the most surface level threats of this, and I really wish it were explored more. People wouldn't sleep at night if they knew how bad it can get.
@sirshaggeh6205
5 жыл бұрын
Well. F'ing. Played. You know what this slow clap is for.
@ussakira7294
5 жыл бұрын
The TNG episode about the Romulan spy was from season 4 called Data's Day great episode
@deaks25
5 жыл бұрын
I’d love a more in depth breakdown. Always liked the episode, but your brief breakdown opens up that very risk to society I hadn’t considered.
@sebastianschulz6531
5 жыл бұрын
this has always been among the show's favourite episodes of mine. I enjoyed the intensity of the plot. well intentions are very disappointing as an argument, consequences are more, and it is never easy to consider all possible rammifications of the actions now how things unfold in the future. But not even trying and then trying to suspend the burden of consequences lazy thinking regularly produces is basically the subplot of most human stories. brexit was initiated that way, no even the most hardcore brexiteers do not want to be responsible for the outcome, even if the UK stays it has firmly weakend the European Union and it's stadning within the Union as well.
@SumBrennus
5 жыл бұрын
W00t! I am watching the live premiere of this. Love this episode.
@MandalorV7
5 жыл бұрын
It’s easy to read a story from Facebook or watch your preferred propaganda network and cast judgement on what or whom they’re talking about. It is really hard to not blindly think when it’s something negative about what someone you don’t like.
@chrismulders2344
5 жыл бұрын
I'd say you laid a good path through Drumhead. I believe the line is crossed when Worf goes full steam ahead with investigating Tarsis. I'm sure he knows the federation has enemies and he wants to "seek them out." Picard wakes up at that moment. Perhaps a two part presentation is warranted?
@ViroVV
5 жыл бұрын
Gul Dukat did nothing wrong. Make Cardassia Strong Again!!!
@timothyhiggins8934
5 жыл бұрын
I say look into this more. I'm not sure but I think this episode came out around the time Clinton and Bob Dole were campaigning, during a time when republican conseratism was in a bit of a lull, cause what sati did, to me seems like republican fearmongering. I don't think she meant any harm but if you think about it, race played a significant role here, to a certain degree. Good job
@Puma1Sunfire1
5 жыл бұрын
Not a waste of time. So valid even today and especially today. Its so damn easy to get wrapped up in things and not keep perspective. Agreed with there is always someone willing to push hate fear intolerance and a lot more negative emotions other things to further 'THEIR' agendas. Hell of a rabbit hole to go down. Looking forward to more on it
@kushdeepsingh2221
5 жыл бұрын
This episode is so applicable to your take down. Especially when Picard gives the speech about restricting free speech and freedom of thought maybe cbs studio personnel should watch that episode
@arivael
5 жыл бұрын
One issue I have always had with this episode is that we see in others that Starfleet personal have things like their DNA held on file, so what is that never checked when its taken? Also if his maternal grandfather was Romulan would some doctor in Starfleet not have noticed the diffrences vs what they had on file for people who did have a half Vulcan parent and full Vulcan Grandparent, we are told there are noticeable differences between the two in other episodes. Then we have one other major point, Setie is still technically a civilian, she is never shown as being recalled to active service, so how can she go around giving Worf orders over Picard, the captain of the ship. That could only be if someone high up than Picard, say the head of Starfleet security had given her that authority, you then have to ask why, why did they feel the need to bring in a former Admiral who was retired to investigate this matter and give her the authority to go around the ships captain? Well either Starfleet had no faith in the Enterprise crew/Picard to investigate the matter or someone was out to cause issues for them, now in the episode they refer to a previous episode where the Enterprise transported what they thought to be a Vulcan ambassador to a secret meeting with the Romulans in the neutral zone. Turns out the ambassador was a long term, deep cover spy and this was a set up to get her back to the Romulans. When the Enterprise finds this out Picard has to either: A. Engage and destroy the Warbird the spy is now on and hope he can then outrun the other two that were just detected approaching to stop the spy getting away, this would also likely start a war with the Romulans. B. Return to Federation space and report back. Now he went with B which was the only real option here, the outcome we never really see but somehow I suspect that there where people in Starfleet security in a lot of trouble over this matter, given how serious it was. Yet in this episode Setie tries to use that incident as evidence that Picard was either a Romulan spy or sympathiser, so he didn't start a war and likely get his ship destroyed doing so, therefore he must be a traitor? At that point either Setie is unhinged or out to get Picard using any excuse she can.
@AncestorEmpire1
5 жыл бұрын
A Starfleet Inquisition? "You don't say........."
@UncleMikeDrop
5 жыл бұрын
I would not definitively say that you should or should not do more long form videos, but go ahead and do them if you feel that it better encapsulates the intended message of that particular video. It's the reason I despise the me too movement. The right to due process under the law is 2nd in its importance only to the right to free expression. One's susceptibility to mob Justice mentality depends largely on their interpretation of the purpose of law. A person who believes that the law grants rights is far more likely to embrace mob justice whereas a person who believes the law merely protects rights is more likely to reject mob justice.
@captianjessie1
5 жыл бұрын
I had a out 20 to 25 years to think ever since that section 31 was introduced in to star trek deep space 9 what if admiral satti was trained by section 31 or synasized with section 31 expecially after wolf 359? Wanting to protect tue federation at all cost even to the point of fake aquistions and even treasion?
@Zandiv
5 жыл бұрын
We are all guilty until proven innocent - can any one say NSA,...we have lost freedom for the perception of security.
@danielshottopics8187
5 жыл бұрын
Lore are you looking forward to the Section 31 Series and do you think the Star Trek Purists will derail this or destroy it before it happens?
@Seskal
5 жыл бұрын
The Drumhead was always among the best sci fi can produce. Take a large issue people look at only through their narrow lens and show it through an environment so different that you forget which side of an issue you were on. You find it easier to identify with an opposing side that before. I'd love to see the original considering and if possible see if CBS would be less of a pain with smaller bites on this larger platform. I hope this style of content provides even better for you than the larger breakdowns.
@yourwrong6125
5 жыл бұрын
this is actually a consistent theme i believe in star fleet. It is also not the first time Picard would be faced against an inquisition as we saw a very clear version when Data's Humanity was put up to question and tried to force data through a procedure. You should do an episode on "The Measure of a Man"
@ArturiusMaxwell
5 жыл бұрын
I would appreciate a more comprehensive break down. Your time is not wasted, you are a remarkable orator and enjoy your opinions and thoughts.
@amorse
5 жыл бұрын
MORE!!! best ep in TNG and crazy reliant now.
@mikegrubbs16
5 жыл бұрын
I like your analysis of the episode as well as the episode itself. I do agree that Starfleet really didn't take this seriously enough to station more ships in the area, though I would say that not even the captain did either since he didn't ask Worf to add security in key areas until the situation was resolved. I would also believe that you are correct that Worf, the admiral, and Picard are all wanting to do the right thing. I think that it is a great example of how issues can be pushed further than they should be and how easily people can be put on slippery slopes.
@everettjohnson9374
5 жыл бұрын
Dude...this episode kinda gave me goosebumps! Yes please go more in depth cause this episode alone has a reflection on our own lives, this has been an amazing video
@Deamon93IT
5 жыл бұрын
The scariest thing of all is that something similar has been happening all too often in the past few years. All we need is a Picard figure stopping this train wreck from happening because, if not stopped, will definitely be a train wreck
@Lesserthannone
5 жыл бұрын
Faith is not fundamental to belief. Those are the words of a person, who has not examined why people are the way there are. And unfortunately, the answer is, because that's the way they are.
@andrewmccormack605
5 жыл бұрын
Very enjoyable breakdown of this episode. I would welcome a further look I to it as well as other worthy episodes.
@DavidD8029
5 жыл бұрын
I like how you use Star Trek lore to explain issues that can and do go on in our society. Keep it up, but beware of other Satie's.
Пікірлер: 364