My grandpa was a machinist for Ball can. His job was manufacturing replacement parts for the assembly line and later for the fully automated can press that replaced the assembly line. When they got a CNC mill, he kept his job by showing that he could make 10 parts in the time it took to program the CNC. Once they had all the parts coded and saved to 5.25" floppy disks. His job became making parts to fix the CNC mill.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
I worked in Muncie, Indiana. Ball was a big employer, back a few years ago. I worked at Henman Engineering & Machine. Borg, sent our jobs to Mexico. Delco Batteries went too. Westinghouse left, New Venture, most of the machinist's and operator jobs, left the country. Don't know what kind of jobs are left.
@northmanlogging2769
5 ай бұрын
its a long shot, but yer gandpappy didn't by chance move north to Warshington and start his own shop did he? if so I have have worked with him for about a decade.
@Fatt_Tony
6 ай бұрын
I was taught by old machinists from way way way back in time. I wasn't allowed to use digital readouts. I learned more about the work itself that way and I had a deeper appreciation for it.
@paulmalinoski5951
10 ай бұрын
Writing simple programs is dead easy and fast with most conversational CNCs. I think that it is very rare for a fully manual machine to be the best method. I learned on manual machines and ran them for a while. I think everyone should start manual because it teaches a lot of basics but CNC capability almost always compliments a machinist's skill
@balooc2
10 ай бұрын
you get a totally different feeling and respect for the material and the machine if you start of with a manual machine, and lets not forget the sound. its really important to learn how different material work and the best way to learn that is manual in my opinion.
@franciscolinera7618
11 ай бұрын
I have been making chips for 40+ years. There is a time and place for everything, EVERYTHING. One thing he mentions is true, companies/engineers that over complicate parts to justify a much higher price is common place and it has been so for a long time yet it is so wrong. Long live the Axleson lathes and Bridgeport mills.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
We had a old Milwaukee #7, dragged out of a retired carrier, from WW II. We keyed 30' heavy shafts on it. It was a beast. Tight all over, could probably cut straight, during an Earthquake. Bored out engines on it. If you worried about vibrations, that was the mill.
@jamesgiovagnoli7754
11 ай бұрын
Knowing how to do it manually, makes you a better CNC programmer and machinist in general. When I need to make a replacement part for one of our other machine tools, i program it as if i were making a thousand of them. I want to have the majority of the work done in one clamping, to minimize errors. Of course, if it was designed / programmed wrong in the first place, then the problem is me, not my machines. I pretty much grew up in the machine shop. We had Strippit punch presses, Wysong shear, lots of welders, a basic Bridgeport mill . My first cnc was a Weideman punch press in 1985. Later i got a Fadal machining center then the Mori Seiki turning center. You pick the process that makes sense for the part and quantity.
@rodan2852
2 ай бұрын
Thats what im sayin. They both make sense depending on the application. Manual teaches you to listen to the cutter and pay attention to details.
@NE_RC
11 ай бұрын
ProtoTrak has been a lifesaver for me and 1,000's of small job shops. A happy medium between full on cnc and full manual.
@evognayr
5 күн бұрын
Acurite is much better, more modern with constant updates. Prototrak is clumsy, and outdated.
@OtisDavies-cv6ze
10 ай бұрын
I am a retired mechanic and in my home shop I have a very old Logan turret lathe, from 1941. I have worked in the machine shop as an apprentice using the newer machines, including the CNC and I can say honestly that I prefer the old machines. It's a slower pace of life and is more enjoyable than the ultra fast paced get it done now pace. I should point out that I just turned 50 years old, so I am old enough to know what the fast pace is and never really knew the slow pace from years prior. We are missing a lot because things are going so fast and everything is in such a rush.
@rodan2852
2 ай бұрын
Amen
@skwerlz
11 ай бұрын
When asked about this I respond with something along these lines - manual machines are great when you make a wide variety of parts but not a whole lot of each at a time, CNC takes over when you have a lot of one part to make, not enough people to make the parts, or the engineer designed something they can fap to instead of a practical part.
@gm558
11 ай бұрын
As an engineering student i completly agree with you. There are so many parts and things today that are overcomplicated for no reason at all. It's some thing that really isn't beaing tought that to be a good mechanical engineer at any point of production is the try to make things as simple as possible. Most things made today are complex just for the sake of beaing able to say they are doing somthing new, but i think most people don't realise that we have been using processes made and thought of 50 year or more ago.
@asbcustom
8 ай бұрын
The difference between a machinist and a machine operator, is that the machinist can still do accurate work on an old, worn, manual machine.
@mikegraham7078
11 ай бұрын
Edit: I should say first that I'm not a machinist. I'm a millwright, and we delight in mucking around in everyone else's trade, so of course I do machining. I've only watched about 4 minutes of the video so far, and I totally get what you're saying about the programming time, but I will say (and I expect you would say the same) that there are circumstances when CNC is waaaaaay faster. At work I have one machine tool (other than a small saw and hardware-store drill press) and that is an ancient Mori-Seiki SL-15 CNC lathe. On that lathe I occasionally produce tiny parts for our machinery by the thousands. Once every 6 months or a year I have to power the thing up and try to remember how to use the antiquated Fanuc 10A controller on it, and cajole it into making 7 or 10 or 15 thousand parts for me using a bar puller. We don't have a bar feeder, mind you... I have the aluminum rod cut to 4' lengths so that it won't propeller in the machine, but I can get fifty good parts out of every rod, and over the course of a day (24 hour production) we can make about 1800 of them. There is no feasible way that I could make that happen without CNC. The guys operating it at night are temp workers... they're not trained machinists. They take a part to QC to have it checked for size, and other than that they just put in a new stick of material and push the green button. Having these parts made would cost $3 per (I've had it quoted) and I can make them for about 12 cents a piece on this lathe that cost us $5K and still holds tenths (if you keep the temperature consistent... I get smaller parts at night than I do during the day). Still, you can't argue with a situation like that. I spend two or three hours writing a program and testing it, and from then on it's a few minutes to get the lathe going (clear out the coolant channels and refill the way oil) and it's off to the races. On even a thousand parts the time spent programming it dwindles to near nothing. The last run was 7000 parts, so the programming time *per*part* was about one second, and the next time I run them it will be zero seconds, because the programming is already done. Also, this machine thrives on neglect. I like that in a tool. :)
@northmanlogging2769
11 ай бұрын
werd to the wise... power that beasty up every couple of weeks, keep the internal battery charged up, its a fecking nightmare when they go dead... them old Mori's are bomb proof otherwise
@jamesgiovagnoli7754
11 ай бұрын
@@northmanlogging2769agree, it cost me about $10,000 after everything was said and done, when the batteries died in my Mori Seiki SL25B500.
@TOXIXIFY
11 ай бұрын
@@northmanlogging2769 And replace the battery yearly while it's powered on.
@jenpsakiscousin4589
11 ай бұрын
It’s nice to have robust tools. I have old CNCs too but mine are delicate. They need to be cleaned, caressed and talked to very softly. Or else they will throw an error or just quit in the middle of a hot job.
@adammiller4879
11 ай бұрын
Exactly right, manual machinists need to get with the times. I started as a manual machinist for a long time and I thought the same, but now big been strictly cnc for years . They have came a long ways, for simple parts I can program easily in under 30 minutes and have tools tooled up. Conversational machines are even faster, not to mention the rigidity and fast you can cut, and, you have that program done for next time :)
@donmathias1705
11 ай бұрын
Horses for courses. First thing is to give your manual machinist equipment that produces round, parallel and square parts. Lathe or mill. Give them dro's, suitable chucks, vices, clamps and tooling. Good lighting and work space but of number one consideration should be drawings with a layout that matches up with how something is made. Dimension from outer portion if it sticks out of a lathe chuch etc. So sure, have a part finished drawing but give them a " construction drawing" toleranced, surface finish requirements, straightness and concentricity details. Let them get on and make it instead of spending time making drawings.
@jasonhall3729
8 ай бұрын
I admire your philosophy. You are a true inspiration. If you're ever in Northwest Ohio you'd fit right in at our place
@kendrom
10 ай бұрын
I love working on the manual lathes and mills, and use them fairly often. I totally agree that in some cases, the manuals can actually be faster than the CNC. Especially single features involving one tool. Eg; counterbores in a number of parts. There is a certain kind of zen feeling I get working on the manuals. They also make the work day fly by. However, there are parts we make (robotics industry), that absolutely have to be made on a CNC. It's not that you couldn't do it on a manual. It's just that given the quantities, and features that involve interpolating holes or surface milling, etc...they just have to be done on a CNC to expect any kind of productivity. On the flip side, if your shop is mostly repairing large shafts for the mining industry, that sort of thing? I could totally see a large manual machine being the way to go. It really just depends on the kind of work you're getting, I think. I really don't think it's an either/or scenario. They're both great, and they both have the purpose.
@mooreevair
11 ай бұрын
When a level headed machinist absolutely calmly dunks from the 3 point line on engineers. 🎉 🎉
@grantmcinnes1176
9 ай бұрын
It's not just machinists. The feeling is universal amongst anyone that actually touches things.
@snazzypotatoes6930
8 ай бұрын
Okay @@grantmcinnes1176
@rodan2852
2 ай бұрын
A good machinist is a "practical" engineer. This kinda stuff is why America isnt "great" anymore. We were able to rival the Germans at one point, the wehrmacht and the red army loved their Ford 2 ton trucks. Check out the photos 😂
@psunitro1
11 ай бұрын
The right tool for the right job. The people who won't give you one off work because you dont have CNC's are probably looking for some place that can also pump out larger runs.
@mrjozo-pr6ih
11 ай бұрын
I'd guess it is the Starbucks-effect, which I just made up; but you can also quote me on that..... when in the balcans you' d amass tourists infront of a Starbucks when they think of coffee whereas you could easily find the best in some old Kavana, Buffet or so in a small town with tractors infront of it. Or in an Bosnian household served around 2pm called Zaćekuša.
@SparrowHawk183
9 ай бұрын
Look, there are many fair points here. When you have a hammer, everything is a nail. But dismissing the capabilities of CAM design and CNC fabrication is shortsighted. I'm 100% on board for simplicity, repairability, and integrating the design+build cycle. Designers should understand how things are made. But it is absurd to ignore the true capabilities and efficiency of CAM+CNC. There are indeed new components, assemblies, and systems that truly could not be fabricated without CAM+CNC, and that solve real problems that analog fabrication cannot. I have a background in architecture, a masters degree in architecture, and currently run a university fabrication lab with CNC routers, plasma cutters, laser cutters, and 3D printers, AND analog woodworking, metal working, and composit fabrication machining processes. Often I'll make a component by hand, because it's faster and easier. Often I will design a part using 3D modeling software, build a toolpath, and make a part with a CNC machine, because it is appropriate. It's all about the right tool for the right job. Both analog and digital tools have their place. But dismissing the truly new capabilities of CAM+CNC fabrication is self-limiting. Plus, a lot has changed since 1976. You can't solve problems using the same mindset that created them in the first place. And it's also about how you are participating in the world. If repair, maintenance, and day-to-day fabrication is your bread and butter, CAM+CNC may not make sense. If prototyping, experimentation, cutting-edge research, and problem-seeking is your focus, CAM+CNC is another essential tool in the toolbox.
@ryan24785
9 ай бұрын
I really like your videos I met you in fairbanks last year you always have really good advice
@justintupicruz6324
2 ай бұрын
great video. I just started machining school and I needed this video
@johs290185
11 ай бұрын
CNC is the better option because 1 person can run multiple machines. There is a serious shortage of qualified people in the industry. Automation is where it's at in 2023 and in the future
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
At Eskridge, in Kansas City, we had what was called cells. Had four CNC's with different jobs, sometimes, two different jobs, on a double table. A drill press, and a large horizontal broach. So you also had to do, First Articles, and keep SPC records. So you ran them, according to their cycle time. Busy, busy, busy.
@RichFife
11 ай бұрын
I Love my manual machines... its where I started and prided myself with the quality of work I could produce. Fast FWD 20+ yrs... I run CNC machines at Work and in my buddies shop... I have manual machines in my garage... being a Tool and Die guy... we do a lot of one off parts with relatively decent tolerances... .0002" - .001", some of the butter jobs are called out to a .003" - .005" tolerance... 😂 Anyway, My manual mindset runs strong so I run the CNC mills like a manual machine. Most of the time I have programs i.have wrote that i keep in the log where i can pull up and change a few things... example: bolt holes... all i have to do is use the probe, let it find center, open my program change the tool, Z depth, my 'I' and 'L' hit go/green. Lol If i were still in the Navy at the base shop, I'd be using a Bridgeport with a DRO, and it would easily take twice as long to do a simple part as such. There are parts that I do that need to be done on a manual machine... typically those jobs are relatively large and are too big for pur CNCs. If i had to choose between having a cnc mill or a manual mill in my garage... for argument sake a HAAS VF2 or a Bridgeport with a 52" table with auto feed on The x, y and z... I'd choose the VF2. Cost savings the manual machine wins hands down... long term money made the cnc will handly win against the manual machine.... the cnc has more to offer for jobs, faster turn around times, and trust me when i say, I dislike saying that because I'm still a manual guy at heart. The cnc eliminates a lot of the costly tooling required to make manual operations effectively efficient. The biggest issue i see, are these kids from college that have an engineering and design degree, they come into the shop and start designing stuff that is impractical and in some cases impossible because they dont understand machining practices and the shops capabilities... they have theory but lack practice.
@zahjav
11 ай бұрын
Full disclaimer: I'm still working on my degree and have very little experience in the machine shop, but I like to have opinions on everything! As far as why the constant bias towards CNC/3d printing, I think its because thats what more accessible in terms of cost and space. I mean, even up at the university, most of the guys I know spend all their time in solidworks, then 3d print it becasue its so much easier to set one up in a dorm room. If thats all you end up working with, it just becomes what you know, so it becomes the hammer and nail problem. The other thing is that learning how to work with G-Code on a 3d printer has a lot of cross over with CNC Mill or Lathe programing (so I'm told), so its an easy way to start getting familiar with it without having to invest the money and space into a full machine shop setup. Furthermore, the CAD programs we are taught typically contain a tool path generation function, often with a companion simulation function to run that tool path on the computer before it gets run through a machine. This makes visualizing the entire processs easier, along with giving a very flashy animation to show off to everyone who needs to see it. Again, when thats the perspective that you visualize the entire process through, it makes every part look like a CNC'ed part. It also doesn't help that companies like to advertise "machined from a single block of aluminum". Sure sounds flashy, but that does sound like a lot of wasted material! I wish we had more classes with a hands on learning without using computers all the time. Not even as the whole class, but just one or two more hands on labs per class. The only reason I kept going with an ME degreee path was because of the machine shop lab for Industrial Processes! Its staggering how much you learn about production when you actually have to build the thing yourself, and it just makes you appreciate the time and effort of going though each class that lead up to that moment.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
The first NC mill, I ever had to work with, was bigger than my bedroom, about fourteen feet high, with a table, about the same as a Bridgeport. Tape ran, had to climb a few steps, to operate it. I couldn't see how it could pay for itself, in my lifetime. Ran a tracer mill, too. Modern CNCs, are made for production, some, have gantries and robots, that seem to have disdain for humans. Kinda like what some women, think of men. As I was running a Kitamura, twenty second cycles, and three tools. Face and plunge with an endmill, drill through, and ream. I designed a machine, to cycle them through, in half the time. All I needed to do was sand off the flash, and feed them into the tube. Now that was for the four different cams in the Ford transfer cases. Not all cycles are twenty seconds. The 5th & 6th, and reverse forks, for Borg and Tremec, had three ops, and over three minutes of cycle time. Most of the in-between time, was getting the forks parallel. The coolant was aimed so as to allow fixture changes, while running, so it wouldn't stop. Because there was always a truck, waiting to go to Mexico.
@andyc5612
10 ай бұрын
I have no cnc machines in my workshop. I don’t tend to make ultra complicated parts but what do make I enjoy the machining process. But like Ford vs Ferrari. Both have a place in their market. One is mass production nice products the other is bespoke hand made. One sells 100 million the other sells 100 thousand. End of the day both sets of customers are happy and staff at both enjoy their jobs. No matter cnc or manual machining just enjoy what you make.
@machinistgoalie
11 ай бұрын
Well sure, CNCs are but tools, no? Proper place and situation in utilizing them. I think anyone who views manual vs CNC as opposition and one being better than another, is in foolish thinking. I enjoy using both, utilize them in thier proper situations, and don't understand the vs. mentality. *shrugs*. Great video as always!
@dubi127
11 ай бұрын
some of us are just tired of people saying that they can make everything faster on a manual machine than a CNC, manual machines still have their place, but with modern CAD/CAM software and machines, the the benefits of manual machines are few and far between...
@rodan2852
2 ай бұрын
I would have both in a shop if I could afford it. In a home shop- niche market scenario, a manual machine would be quicker to procure and quicker to become profitable, and easier to keep running.
@returnedfrompanama
10 ай бұрын
CNC’s are great for parts with precision curves.
@JBryant1981
13 күн бұрын
Both manual machining and CNC machining have their place. I used to work at a CNC production shop. We ran the same parts all the time and in my work center the only time we had to write a new program was when we had to make a spacer body with an overall length that was different than what we already had programs for, or when management decided to off load some work onto us from a work center that was behind when my work center was slow. My current job as a maintenance technician in a completely different industry we have an engine lathe and a vertical knee mill in the maintenance shop. When I was working in a production machine shop I enjoyed having the CNC machines. However as a maintenance tech that mainly has to make one off parts or make repairs on existing parts I much prefer the manual machines. Sure it might take me longer to physically machine something than the cycle time of a CNC machine, but by the time you factor in writing the program and setting up the CNC machine it might be faster to make the one off using manual machines.
@PLUSHAIRPLANECARPET
11 ай бұрын
this guy needs to experience the joys of a mazak sqt 15 with live tools and the old conversational control. programming is so easy once you get used to the language
@dumpsterdave3710
11 ай бұрын
One of the things I like to do with manual support machines for my VMC is stock prep. I'll cut my stock and then mill one edge of it to establish a true surface and then that edge gets butted up against a stop in the vise of the VMC. Sometimes simplifies things when I have a part that just needs brought to size from stock and some features machined into it. The alternative is putting in soft jaws and doing both ends in the CNC and sometimes it's faster to prep the one edge on the manual and then use parallels and regular hard jaws in the VMC.
@ubcts
10 ай бұрын
Yea and the buggy whip manufacturers were real mad at Henry Ford. I ran some of the first NC machines in 1978 and they were clearly a game changer. I also ran tracer machines. Wire EDM machines were also a huge improvement.
@TobeWilsonNetwork
9 ай бұрын
Howee fears no engineer. Great stuff
@dekutree64
10 ай бұрын
0:55 That would have been a lot more interesting if they gave a CNC programmer and journeyman machinist the plans at the same time and had them make a few copies of the part. Regardless of who finishes first, you'll be able to see the difference in preparation time and time per part once you're up and running.
@martinconnelly1473
8 ай бұрын
I converted my manual lathe and mill to CNC. I use manual data input for most of my work, in other words, I just use the CNC to turn the handles. But there are times I use conversational CNC/wizards to do the donkey work such as taking a lot of material out of a bore or reducing a diameter by a large amount. Occasionally I sit at the computer and produce a finished profile that is a bit more than just facing and turning a part. I still manually change the tools and set the correct diameters and face position. I have just finished making 4 retaining rings for someone. After the lathe these were put on the mill for drilling and tapping six holes on a pitch circle diameter around the centre bore. I used a probe and the CNC to locate the centre, fit the spotting drill, pilot drill and tapping drill (set zero for each one by eye) and used conversational CNC to make the holes. I tapped manually afterwards rather than mess about tapping using the mill since I would have had to use thread milling and with what I have that is only worth doing when there are blind holes. For me this is the best mix of manual and CNC since I am only doing this as a hobby for a few beers.
@libbyforgeandfoundry6180
11 ай бұрын
This was a great story … we were just having a manual , CNC discussion today …
@jryer1
14 күн бұрын
Love old school. CNC has it's place, but old school still rocks.
@dale116dot7
9 ай бұрын
I’m not a machinist by trade, I’m an electronics engineer. But if I need less than a handful of simple mechanical parts I’ll just machine it on a manual mill and lathe and I design mechanical things so I can manually machine it easily. If I need more than maybe five or ten parts, I’ll send it out to a shop and let them decide if they want to do it manually or on a CNC.
@Wayne3544
11 ай бұрын
Amen, John.
@procyonia3654
11 ай бұрын
I've pretty much spent my career half on manual and half on CNC, on large Horizontal borers and vertical borers On the big machines I'd much rather run a CNC. There's no replacement for learning all the how to and why to's on a manual Though. Most of the lads I've worked with that only ever done CNC usually end up lacking alot of the foundational stuff you just learn organically on a manual
@Halinspark
11 ай бұрын
My shop has both because we can run the simple stuff on the manuals while the CNCs do the more complex or involved jobs and not need to keep track of that many extra programs. I don't get the rivalry, I think it's important to know both so you have that many more tricks for when you can't do it the way you would have preferred.
@kendrom
10 ай бұрын
Agreed. I don't get the rivalry either.
@rexmundi8154
11 ай бұрын
I have an almost brand new Cnc mill with the probe and tool changer. I have a new Prototrak bed mill as well. I do prototyping for aerospace. The Prototrak is the best of both worlds. If it had an automatic tool changer it would be perfect. You can use it manually or as a cnc and programming is easy thru the conversational control. I like that it’s open and you can get right up on the part with a loupe if you need to to really dial something in. That being said, these are $140,000 worth of machines. And the software is $3000 a year.
@RichieRichOverdrive
11 ай бұрын
I will agree that the Prototrak is absolutely the best fusion of CNC and manual. All of the perks of a manual machine with the extra capabilities of a CNC.
@BlueF350
9 ай бұрын
3d is important for foundry production tools. The tooling that makes castings cab be very complex, and they used to do it on a bench with wood. Now it’s done on a cnc, and it’s super fast compared to the old school. Bench guys are very valuable still, probably paid more than cnc guys. The bench guys are masters of the manual trade in pattern work
@richard-em6zi
11 ай бұрын
CNC is good for mass production when you don't have to change the program for various different parts. The only thing is regular maintenance is still required. A manually made part is better for many different parts that require precision machining
@Wyllie38
10 ай бұрын
We’ve had jobs come in that, in the past would have cast in features, that they want fully cnc’ing from standard stock (flame cut plate and whatnot) not realising how long that kind thing can take. For the sake of saving money on the castings. Saying that our shop has several millions on cnc machine tools, but we still have a load of manual machines and in my humble opinion manual machines are irreplaceable
@johnmcardle5967
11 ай бұрын
The game changer with CNC is repartition of item...also it reduces subsequent setups because of ability to store the parameters.
@jamest.5001
11 ай бұрын
The way I see it. CNC is more for product production, not one offs . Or possibly complex jobs. Where multiple processes are required. It's like using a micro controller to flash a light, a simple flasher will do the job!
@guardmanonduty5139
10 ай бұрын
I completely agree with everything you say in this video. Especially about poor engineering. I guess I'd say im 50/50 you want CNC or Manual get a prototrak. We sold our 2 bridgeports for 2 traks and they are awesome. Go I to DRO mode if you want to go old school, but you have the option of CNC for curves without a table.
@John-NeverStopLearning
11 ай бұрын
To me this boils down to: how long does it take one person to to set up end produce X number of part( s) versus all the the time to write the program set up the CNC, prepare the raw material for the CNC and run X number of parts. Some times an assembly line set up of different machines is faster than one CNC. If all depends on what the part is ( complexity) and efficiency.
@williammorris1763
11 ай бұрын
Sure, until you have other jobs to run on other machines. Maybe this is true in R&D and job shops you have low volume. Parallel vs series argument. I don't wait for my laundry to be done before I do the dishes.
@noid919
10 ай бұрын
I only run manual equpiment at home (for a hobby) and my work is nothing to do with machining at all (though I have done a little CNC a long time ago). His last statements say it all (taliking about self driving cars) - he says he doesn't want a computer driving for him and also that "it's no fun". But self-driving cars are vastly superior to human drivers. They still occasionally crash and they're not perfect, but you're more likely to have a crash if you're in control manually. So even when something is demonstrably better, the 'old ways' are still preferred. This mindset is why he doesn't want to consider CNC - and they've come a long way from the film he talks about. Making a 3D drawing in CAD is a lot easier and faster than it used to be and depending on the designer your 'drawings' may even come as a 3D file ready for the CAM software. Good CAM software is also quick and easy to use. For the CNC run it doesn't matter that there is a (possibly) unwarranted complex curve - the CNC will produce the part to the original spec just as well and just as fast whether it has a complex curve or a simple step so why not create more aesthetic pieces? Finally, regarding how many pieces before CNC is better - I'd much prefer to pay labourer rates to keep stock up and replace/sharpen tooling to CNC equipment that is cranking out product while my machinist does initial setup/CAD/CAM for other work, than paying machinist rates for manual repetition that a mindless machine could do faster. It's just good business (alhtough a bit sad for machinists admittedly).
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
A foundry guy came in with a job of making two pipe flanges. Inch thick, Procut hotroll, for a two foot pipe. I made the first one, two key slots, four holes. Had a DRO, without the bolt circle calculator, so I used my calculator, clamped it once, drilled and machined it once. The lathe guy is making the second one, the mill doesn't have enough travel to just drll the holes N,S,E, and W. So being a lathe guy, math is taboo, he dialed it in three times, and clamped it down, three times, to drill four holes and two notches. Math can mean the difference between profit and loss.
@alessiodimaria3320
10 ай бұрын
Grazie…. Thanks! Great explanation!
@Bob-Ross666
10 ай бұрын
Is this Scotty Kilmer's brother?
@nickthelebo
10 ай бұрын
Sort of the part you speak of if you were serious you would have a fixture for that holds 2 or 4 or more on a tombstone that holds multiple fixtures and have a pallet system on the machine to swap out toomstones and each of thoes flanges on a machine with adequate power and a good cam programer should be down to less than 30 seconds on somthing that simple and it should be compleatly finnished and de burred
@archiemorgan1194
11 ай бұрын
I’m about to start mechanical engineering at university and I’m really glad I watched this video. It’s so true that many parts these days are over engineered making them overpriced and inefficient to produce, and then all of that is masked as ‘good engineering’.
@HOWEES
11 ай бұрын
You're on the path to being a good engineer. Good work. -Cameraman
@omw-bavaria
11 ай бұрын
As a machinist and Ingenieur (as its spelled in german) i learned " form follows function", today its "proprietary form for functioning a certain time span". I hate that. But a company selling long lasting easy repairable items will bankrupt itself after selling the item to everyone that needs it...and i agree, the designing process was never easier than today as you dont have to worry how to machine that part, cnc will be able to, or wire edm, or whatever. Poor design became popular, no need to pay for good design when you can machine a poor designed part cheap.
@ARockRaider
10 ай бұрын
personally, i don't see the evidence that making built to last easy to repair products would actually lead to bankruptcy, or even less profit long term. problem is, the bean counters only think short term. worst case should be an eventual flattening when dying equipment starts to match production of new equipment. though there will always be some development where new tech or ideas leads to improvements worth buying new equipment for some people, but even if that's not the case plenty of people will want to expand their equipment pool.
@omw-bavaria
10 ай бұрын
@ARockRaider true, a company selling long lasting items will bankrupt itself more likely because of no innovation or too less innovation - there is always a thin line of evolving a project into an innovative one or just updating a very good product. Many companies in Germany no longer build machines or went out of business because their product or machine was superior and almost everlasting, but alsoI because of lack of innovation - selling a superior but outdated product. Companies only trying to sell short time products often also just throw out new inventions, worth it or not. I guess it is complicated but the bean counters definitly made it worse. And yes, today very seldom things are built long term - but because money is wanted in short term, design and selling needs to be also. Still dont like it 🤣
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
If cars were built to last, you would only have to buy one, your whole life. Imagine, everyone has a Model T. I would say that, 99 out of a 100 kids, couldn't start one, or know what the reverse pedal does. And I would guess that Howie and I, would have to be taught, how a Tesla, drives itself.
@advanceddiesel7766
10 ай бұрын
Nice chat. Engineering obsolescence has taken over the world.
@joe_3006
10 ай бұрын
yeah its complexity and and quantity that could determine which would be better.
@dehmer777
4 ай бұрын
Agree totally. Poor or mislead engineers have so many items cost so much more than they should
@melgross
11 ай бұрын
I’m seeing too many it’s either this or that here. Whether to CNC or not is a more comp,ex question=ion. It’s not just the comp,entity of the part, though sometimes it is, or the number of parts, though sometimes it is, but rather the entirety of the operation. For a small shop, such as Howie’s, or something similar, it may be that they will simply not do certain jobs. But large shops it may be a different story. Of course, Howie is talking here of simple CNC. Many modern machines are five or even more axis’s and that work is almost impossible to do manually, even with dividing heads, hydraulic or otherwise, combine that with large numbers of parts and CNC is mandatory. Modern CNC also tends to be more accurate. Programming time can take several days for some highly complex high accuracy parts. But once it’s worked out the results are worth it, again particularly if there is a fair number needed. But all that’s in favor of CNC. There are many reasons why it’s not the best solution, or at least, a necessary one.
@aguywhomakesthings3316
11 ай бұрын
Well I would 100% agree with you because as a cnc machinist I ONLY have cnc at my disposal I would love a mill over here for quick operations. That being said I cut features on the daily that are smaller than 1mm we use 1mm cutters and 3/32 cutters daily and there's no way youre gonna make any features with that size cutters on a manual mill.
@jonamr
10 ай бұрын
Well my friend, I guess you have never met Mark.
@donavinnezar
10 ай бұрын
been operating a lathe and shaper for around 6 years now , one off jobs , repairs , and modification jobs are just alot better suited to manual machinign as well as jobs with poor material quality (like porosity hard spots and welding)
@kooldoozer
11 ай бұрын
Explorer drill head or Commander drill head ? --Doozer
@bobbg9041
11 ай бұрын
My uncle owned the largest shop in my city he built it from scratch He had manual machines from the 1940s up to cnc machines in the late 70s so yes i worked in the shop. On big jobs you keep making the same part for an industry cnc machines are the way to go Smaller jobs manual machines are the way to go. You get a million part order you might find your doing the parts on both manual and cnc machines at different stages. One type of machine is faster. We used a horizontal mill on part of the job then it went onto a vertical mill to do 5 more operations then out to plating and back to a 3 head drill press to assembly finish work and inspection. Each order was a million parts we over all made 10s of millions of them. As far as i know they all got used up during the gulf war.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
Used to run those multiple head drill presses, for emergency brakes, on the drive shaft. I had to walk from one end of the shop, to the other end, to sharpen the large, busted drills. The material was hard, and big drills, could have used, a pilot hole. Just saying.
@timgoodliffe
9 ай бұрын
of course cnc and manual will always have their pros and cons, i cant help but think about somthing like a swiss machine when it came to your pin example, even a cam driven swiss machine i feel would be able to do 10k parts more efficiantly then a drill press. of course the specs of the part do matter and not everyone is going to have access to a swiss machine or the expertise to run a cam driven one (i certainly dont).
@bunyanforgings7849
2 ай бұрын
I'm of the opinion that the CNC machines are prefered by the corporations mainly because they eliminate the need to properly train and pay machinists. We see the same thing happening in the millwork shops. Eliminating the need to train people also eliminates a lot of their competition.
@Unknown15916
11 ай бұрын
10,000 TOOLS ? You need a computerizied inventory system to find the correct tool for the assigned job (unless your Howee after a couple cups of coffee) ! 😅
@joshualegault1095
2 ай бұрын
Meanwhile my cnc machine with a pallet changer and 71 tool pockets is running a bunch one off parts all night while I'm at home asleep. We've figured out how to do high mix low volume work on cnc machines in the 90s. Manual machines are only really profitable when machining very large parts now days imo.
@northmanlogging2769
11 ай бұрын
Thing the CNC sufficants forget, to write a good program for even a relatively simple program your looking at an hour or more just to write the code, another hour or so to set up, but you save 2 minutes in cycle time... For short run stuff or simple second operations can't beat a manual with a competent machinist. (I've worked with plenty of "programmers" that couldn't write even a simple program in less then 8 hours...) A lot of the programmers I've worked with, were simply good at bull shitting the owners, cause they could navigate microsoft windows or MS-Dos... didn't know a damned thing about machining but they could prattle on about Ram and gigibytes
@northmanlogging2769
11 ай бұрын
And yes at one time I could write simple drill cycle, facing, or even basic profiling (with corner rounding) long hand faster then it took to walk to the office and chew out the "programmer" but, thats not exactly a common ability in the shops I worked at (its also a reason I got fired more often then not... cause the "programmers" were often the "leads")
@friedpixel7517
11 ай бұрын
The code writing point becomes null and void when you consider that CAM softwares exist that write the code for you after you design the part
@dubi127
11 ай бұрын
@@friedpixel7517 not exactly "after you design the part", if you dont make lots and lots of similar parts, you most likely dont have macros set up in the CAM, but even a really complex parts can be programmed within a couple hours, simpler parts that are suited for manual machines can pre programmed in about 20minutes, including coffee break, setup time in machine depends mostly on the type of part and what specific tools you need for that part, quite a lot of parts can be made with only a couple standard tools, sacrificing seconds off of run time for ease of setup, letting interpolation doing all the hard work...
@northmanlogging2769
11 ай бұрын
@@friedpixel7517 The Cam software does not make good programs all by itself, despite what seems to be common practice these days, its still dependent on a programmer having a clue to what machining processes can and should be done, clicking the solid file and saying DO IT does not make you a programmer, or a machinist
@northmanlogging2769
10 ай бұрын
@@PGspeed88 yer absolutely correct, however, not a whole lot of "programmers" out there that CAN write a simple program, THAT WORKS in a few minutes, Hel most of the ones I've worked with would take 4-5 hours to make a simple hole pattern, let alone any sort of profile or roughing work. Any moron can click on a solid file and have the CAM software "decide" the "best" method, a real machinist and programmer is what makes it work well, every time, same goes for manual machines, takes more then the ability to turn some handles and tighten a chuck/vice to make a machinist, current industry (at least around here) proves that daily
@rustypotatos
10 ай бұрын
True craftsman
@jaybailey3518
8 ай бұрын
I totally agree with you .
@dubi127
9 ай бұрын
Even with multiple drills on a manual machine, it would be a close race with stupid fast CNCs like Fanuc Robodrill or Brother Speedio, running modern carbide drills with 70bar TSC. Those holes look pretty close to 16mm (5/8"), that would give you around 4-4.5k rpm at around 2800rpm at 1750mm/min feed, holes are about 10-12mm deep, that gives you 0.5 second to drill a single hole, so 4 seconds to drill all 8 holes, plus some rapids, on robodrill it would take 2-3 more seconds... Also, the spindle load would peak at around 17-18kw, how much power do those old machines have? Dont get me wrong, manual machines still have their placr in a machine shop, but high volume production has moved on years ago.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
Uh, have you ever seen a multi head drill, in a manual machine? The trick is to offset the drills, so they don't all start together. And you don't overload the old motor, that probably, has twice the service factor, than listed. We used to make aluminum racing hubs, and drilled the spoke holes, at one time.
@dubi127
5 ай бұрын
@@everettplummer9725 starting a drill vs. keeping the drill engaged does not change the spindle load that much, all i was trying to say, when it comes to sheer speed, in this case the CNC wins, also, going from one hole pattern to another would be faster, just around 5-6 button presses, if it was programmed in the controls and not in cam. I am not saying that manual machines have no use in a machine shop, just that when it comes to higher volume production there is no competing with automation
@highlandermachineworks5795
11 ай бұрын
It's as if engineers get paid by the complexity of the part versus the function. They also adjust their speech. For example: The plural for axis is axes. Engineers say: axessees The plural for process is processes. Engineers say processees. I can go on but you get it.
@jasonhall3729
8 ай бұрын
Yessir preach on. Love it
@cmonbroitsme
10 ай бұрын
Most DROs will have a function for walking off a bolt hole pattern. Dividing head is too much work for a simple bolt hole circle
@Zkkr429
9 ай бұрын
I’ll say it again and again. You choose your machine, I’ll choose mine. Bet I’m quicker, and my choice will be CNC.
@rustypotatos
10 ай бұрын
A man whose word is worth something
@chrisstephens6673
11 ай бұрын
Oh for the days when motoring was fun, in Britain there are a disproportionate number of traffic enforcement cameras and disproportionately slow speed limits that motoring is no longer fun but a chore.😭😭😭😭
@HOWEES
11 ай бұрын
If you ever make it across the pond there are a few very empty highways with no traffic enforcement cameras and lots of permafrost induced dips and bobs to scoot over in Alaska. -Cameraman
@chrisstephens6673
11 ай бұрын
@@HOWEES would love to but at my age the all year round mild climate of old London Town suits me just fine. Perhaps in another life, but by then you will probably over run with those pesky cameras too.😉
@nikhook1114
2 ай бұрын
45yrs in the trade, ran many manual machines back in the day. The parts are far too complex to machine without CNC today. We have been programing at the machine w/computer and powermill software since 1997 and never looked back. Programing is simple and once the machine is running you are programming the next operation. Wouldn't have it any other way. Yes there is still room for a manual lathe and small mill for repairs, other than that, no.
@benbayer4575
11 ай бұрын
Threaded bolt patterns is one case where, if doing even just four, it would be super easy to write a code, set up the machine and tools, and blow through the job. And the code is there if you ever get the job again.
@masonkubecka9163
11 ай бұрын
Exactly! Simple stuff like that takes minutes to program. Literally click bolt circle type your parameters. Set up wcs, drill, chamfer and tap. Also, you could easily get that down to 1 minute on the right machine and with the right tooling. TSC drill, chamfer, tap. Setting up tools is equal time to manual. Because the machine measures everything for you. And something he fails to mention is while you are running the last job you are programming the next. Manual is almost never the answer IMO. In his defense I have only run manuals to do the most basic of things and I’m one of those young guys who he probably doesn’t like.
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
Uh, at Henman Engineering, they had about three or four manual Machinists, making and replacing jigs & fixtures. They had a Blanchard grinder, a turret lathe, a few more, about three Bridgeport style verticals, some other stuff, nothing shiny new. Not sure what kept them busy. About twenty CNCs, three shifts. Only soft jaws were made in the CNC, everything else was done on manual machines.
@maxciciera2570
9 ай бұрын
Anyone run a machine shop in florida?
@alcyonecrucis
9 ай бұрын
He looks just like my old chemistry professor ... Dr Doug McIntosh
@jtg2737
11 ай бұрын
At the opening of this video I am assuming that you meant to say an "N.C." machine not a "C.N.C." am I correct?
@jtg2737
10 ай бұрын
Correct.@@PGspeed88
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
I don't think much about the volume of NC programs on tape. For machines that will never pay for themselves. At least manual and CNC machines, have a quick turnaround time. A few good jobs, and they are making profits.
@Brian55126
11 ай бұрын
So.whatnarenyourmsyining
@MieczyslawPawelKolenda
10 ай бұрын
Here are a couple of reasons why manual is better than CNC: a) Producing something manual allows you to make a part step by step: thus giving you opportunity to measure and ensure specs of your part. While on CNC you have to rely on the promise that that machine is "good". I say that because machining is very complex process and it is impossible to account for all variables in a CNC machine while keeping it safe and reliable. b) For CNC you still need a machinist, operator and mechanical engineer to use them in order to benefit from CNC speed. Forces on the part, machine and tool are too great to be disregarded (don't forget about heat, metals expand and become softer when heated. Also it can ruin tempering) c) You cant learn much on a CNC; you have to have that knowledge before you can operate it in the first place, because it is easy to make a mistake, but they can be very costly. Furthermore, because parts are made in one session as opposed to step-by-step it is hard to learn anything. You cant look into machine and take actual measurements from the part, therefore if your part does not match specifications, you can only guess what went wrong (there are just too many things).
@brandons9138
10 ай бұрын
Your entire post is flat out wrong in just about every conceivable way.
@MieczyslawPawelKolenda
10 ай бұрын
@brandons9138 Watch this: your post is just wrong on every level.... But for real, your reply is not a valid argument (if it qualifies as an argument at all...) I just stated a bunch of hypothetical reasons why CNC might be worse than manual. I do not have much experience, but I do have a wide imagination)))
@brandons9138
10 ай бұрын
@@MieczyslawPawelKolendaNo, you're right it's not an argument. However anyone that has spent any time in a shop will see it as being true.
@MieczyslawPawelKolenda
10 ай бұрын
@@brandons9138 Are you then one of those ppl that have spent time in shop? If so, it should not be that hard to make a valid argument, instead of making one from authority. Especially if you haven't established such authority yet... Very lazy of you, does not seem in character of a hardworking person that has spent some time in shop ;)
@brandons9138
10 ай бұрын
@@MieczyslawPawelKolenda On your points "a) Producing something manual allows you to make a part step by step: thus giving you opportunity to measure and ensure specs of your part." CNC machining is done the exact same way. Step by step one tool at a time. In between tools you have the option of stopping the machine to make sure the machine did what it was supposed to. Checking what each tool did is part of the set up process. This is especially critical if there is another tool following the last tool. For example a blind tapped hole. You want opt make sure the hole is the right diameter and depth before sending the tap into the hole. "While on CNC you have to rely on the promise that that machine is "good"." I'm not sure what you are getting at here. This goes in line with checking the results of the last tool before continuing the program " I say that because machining is very complex process and it is impossible to account for all variables in a CNC machine while keeping it safe and reliable." The human element is always a factor. The wrong tool could be loaded or a missed offset. That is why there are rapid and feed rate controls on the machine. Instead of letting the machine run at full rapid during set up. The set up guy should be using the single block function to run the program one line at a time until he's confident that the tool is doing what it's programmed to do. One common visual check is to have the tool stop .1 (inches) above the part. That way the set up guy can slowly approach the part using the rapid and feed rate controls on the machine. Once he gets to that .1 about the part a quick visual check to make sure the tool is positioned correctly. "b) For CNC you still need a machinist, operator and mechanical engineer to use them in order to benefit from CNC speed." If this is the case then I'm grossly underpaid because I fill all of those roles. I program, set up and run parts. It's a VERY common role in most shops. "Forces on the part, machine and tool are too great to be disregarded (don't forget about heat, metals expand and become softer when heated. Also it can ruin tempering)" This is why we have work holding that secures the part in the machine. Some times it needs to be adjusted depending on part geometry. If your part is getting hot enough that you're experiencing thermal expansion, then you are doing something wrong. "c) You cant learn much on a CNC" You can learn just as much on a CNC machine as you can on a manual. The set up process between both machine types is not that different. Setting up work coordinates and tool length offsets serve the same function whether it's a manual machine or CNC machine. "you have to have that knowledge before you can operate it in the first place, because it is easy to make a mistake, but they can be very costly." This is why a guy that has very little experience is not setting up a machine. He's a parts loader and unloader. During cycles he checks and deburrs parts. If he has the willingness to learn then he can learn in a set by step fashion. I've trained several guys. I've taught everything from basic set up skills to programming. "Furthermore, because parts are made in one session as opposed to step-by-step it is hard to learn anything. You cant look into machine and take actual measurements from the part, therefore if your part does not match specifications, you can only guess what went wrong (there are just too many things)." This goes back to my explanation of your first point. You don't just press the button and hope for the best. The parts are checked in the machine along the way to make sure things are progressing as they should. On basic parts you can read the code and see what's going to happen ahead of time. Don't get me wrong there are times you pull what looks to be a good part out of the machine only to find that it's not good. Even then it's a matter of being able to trouble shoot the issue and solve it. Some issues are easier to solve than others.
@Brian55126
11 ай бұрын
Do you have a cciker
@Gendronk
11 ай бұрын
We have one (cincinnati) that still runs at work today
@everettplummer9725
5 ай бұрын
A fellow employee, moved a roll around tool box, between my favorite and the Cincinnati mill. The crossfeed was on, and eventually the handle, was whacking the time out of the box. The Cincinnati, was a rocking almost over. The guy who's box was getting beat on, was standing next to me, and we had to get around the central bench, to reach it in time. Too late for the gear tree, in the crossfeed, but the mill was saved.
@AMS-dx7wo
11 ай бұрын
same old BS cnc vs manual bashing. I own 2 shops, since 1963. bought 1st cnc mill & lathe in 1999. we use both. manual & cnc. CNC makes us more $$ because 1 man/hour can tend 3 cnc machines making many more parts than 1 man/hour making 1 part on a manual machine. Even with a qty of 1, it is usually faster to program with today's CAD/CAM, and let the cnc make the part unattended, at night while we're closed (aka running lights out). whether cnc or manual, making 1 part takes time - with manual a skilled machinist has to stand on a hard floor in a noisy, cold /hot sometimes dirty shop, close to a dangerous machine spitting hot & sharp shaving or spraying coolant versus a skilled cnc machinist sitting in a clean quiet climate controlled programming the part then loading the mat"l a letting the cnc make the part while he goes to lunch or programs another job... both take about the same time, with cnc churning out a higher quality part 9 out of 10 times. most of my years in the biz were spent on manual machines; we used turrets, indexers, gang drills, special form tools to boost productivity - each is just a progression toward automation, no different than progressing for pen to manual typewriter to electric typewriter to word processor. folks who wish to bash cnc should drag out a manual typewriter, then mail in their complaint, instead of simply sending it via their smart phone. 😂 my company makes high performance cylinder heads for Harley Davidsons. I can manually port & work up a set of heads in about 6 hours. with 1 five axis cnc, including programming, I can produce 5 sets of heads, at a much more affordable price to my customers. cnc vs manual argument has been around since the first NC tape machines were developed for the air-force... it's like arguing about a horse & buggy vs a car. both have their 'place', but there's a reason more people drive cars than buggies...
@HOWEES
11 ай бұрын
Sorry that came across wrong, I am not bashing CNC. I just want to help people realize, it's not the only, always best way. I am also glad that You have a good product, that takes full advantage of the CNC machines that You have. Most people will probably not appreciate all the time you have also put into research, with flow benches, dynos, or maybe track experience to get to where you are. You must also have had good business practices & advertising. I fully support having good lighting in all machine shops, why would a manual tooled shop not want good lights?
@mikegraham7078
11 ай бұрын
That's a good point. We have a shop that makes BIG tooling for us on big-ass five-axis roller machines and they will set it up all day then let it chew on the part all night. We're talking thousands of profiled holes on the surface of a cylinder. And pretty big. The biggest (so far) was 42" OD by almost 11' long, with over 15,000 profiled blind holes in it, and it was all done in ONE setup. Big-ass machine. The crazy setup they have today with all of the touch-screen stuff is fit to make you weep when you're used to an ancient controller that doesn't even have a full alphabetic keyboard (hit 'shift' for 'T').
@AMS-dx7wo
11 ай бұрын
@@HOWEES you're 💯 % right about lights in a shop. 6 yrs ago we moved to a bigger building- first task was installing 135 Bright LED lights... 🌞 and you're right on about the hours spent at the flow bench when developing a port. I really enjoy your videos and appreciate your effort/time. Even with 60 yrs experience, I still like to learn from other machinist, such as yourself. thanks for sharing 👍 I enjoy your
@bobbg9041
11 ай бұрын
8:51 well we can just go back to square wheels and round tires. We don't need all that fancy curvy stuff.
@francisphillipeck4272
2 ай бұрын
To make a simple design patentable they need to add engineering design features....
@jasonhull5712
11 ай бұрын
Oh lord.. there he goes again, spouting off with all that common sense stuff … 🙄 ugh… 🤣😂 (I’m kidding) “But CNC is the future” they say. Just like he enjoys cars and driving, I enjoy my manual machines. Just like he lacks any desire to run out and buy new CNC machines, we lack that same desire to purchase electric self driving cars.. the “future” is part of a agenda and that agenda is to ship all those jobs overseas to be more profitable, and to achieve more control.
@kidkv
11 ай бұрын
One other way to look at it, do you want to pay $40 an hour or $60 to $80 an for cnc work
@procyonia3654
11 ай бұрын
Idk what kind of shop you run, but for me atleast Customer pays the same whether I put the part on my manual or my cnc. I put parts on the cnc that makes sense, manual gets the stuff that makes sense for it.
@anthonycash4609
11 ай бұрын
Isn't that the way they always sell people on new stuff. Deceiving you from the start. I was taught years ago, if it was that great I would be knocking on there door to buy it. They wouldn't be knocking on my door to sell it.
@RustyShop
9 ай бұрын
Prototyping will always be faster on a manual machine. For making one part CNC doesn't make sense. Production work, CNC is undoubtedly faster even when you account for programming time.
@bobbg9041
11 ай бұрын
2:50 and ill bet the CNC program was on punch tape and took 3 4 hours to write the program and set up the mill. Honestly back then the journey set a better time for a one off part. Now in 2023 its done with cad The blueprints in cad the computer takes the drawing you pick the part your making and the parameters are done by the computer not someone writing code for 8 hours a day. He's just pulling parts to make off the drawing. Now its 5 axis not 3. The manual machinist almost can't do that type of work. Well not in a production time. The parts too complex and he would be making jigs all day to do operations you can't normally do. The computers today are a lot more advanced and a lot smaller. Your machinist is still 5' 10" 210 lbs and hasn't changed much ecpt for his smart phone.
@robertwinton2649
11 ай бұрын
❤
@bobweiram6321
6 ай бұрын
Manual machining is no match for CNC. Manual machining is more costly, less accurate, and slower with a steep learning curve. A single CNC machine performs most operations of a mill and lathe. It also doesn't require as much tooling and fixtures as manual machines do. Equipped with just an end mill, for instance, a CNC can perform a lot of operations that would otherwise require several tools, fixtures, and complex setups on a manual machine, resulting in significant cost saving and faster production. Manual machines have a very steep learning curve. To master the use manual machines, you must be a trained machinist which requires a broad set of skills in a wide range of disciplines. It takes years of training and experience to become one. A CNC has a much shorter learning curve to operate one. Contrary to what was stated in the video, programming CNCs are no longer an issue. Today's CAM software is far easier to use and more productive than the old days when they were programmed using G-Code exclusively. Someone with zero experience can become a competent CNC operator in a matter of a weeks or months.
@bryceg5709
11 ай бұрын
Ehhhhhhh. Its like you forget the art aesthetic and design. Russia c. 1960 ❤️ your design principle.
@bryceg5709
11 ай бұрын
I have a 3d printer. I also have and use a deckel pantograph and a gordon 0-16a mill. I like to do small stuff where I 3D print a pattern and then duplicate it at a reduction. Its fun the 3d printer has degrees of design freedom and the Pantagraph copies it will reducing error. But what I do could be done faster on cnc. I like the variable in my products that Icreate with manually running my tool like how I can texture with the hand feed or depth lettering. Its very hard for me to get the aesthetic in my 3d design but I can print my part and then hand modify a texture or hand feed it to change it. But all of this also starts with a way to duplicate and CNC if I were better at 3d design (AI is helping here) I would do better to buy the right cnc.
@Wolf462
11 ай бұрын
Manual mills and lathes are faster for low volume manufacturing if you have an experienced machinist. However, for high volume production CNC is the way to go. Even factoring in program time and machine setup time with touch offs & indicating etc the CNC will have significantly faster cycle times and can be run easily by a minimally trained “operator” thus enabling shop owners to make more money.
@Kenneth-kz9it
11 ай бұрын
In today's work force the technicians are probably less intelligent 🤓 as you are . And CNC is slowly taking over. I am a welder fabricator for the last 2 and a half decades. And most all shops I have worked in have had a CNC burn table.
@farmboy6218
11 ай бұрын
Programming is not that difficult. Especially with today's conversation language. As for the "untrained" insinuation, I know of no machinist that don't know both sides of the skill. (There are operators who know neither) This is opinion, not necessarily fact.
@dubi127
11 ай бұрын
i started out as a CNC programmer/machinist without having any machining knowledge prior, huge risk from my first employer, as i only knew how to work in CAD at that time... now i know more about manual machines than most of my coworkers (machinist graduates) combined... CNC is IMO more versatile and in most cases faster, not always, but almost...
Пікірлер: 221