Imagine you're playing a casual game of infinite chess with your friend and just as you're about to win he pulls out a "mate-in-ω²" stalling tactic. I'd flip the damn infinite board over.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
😂
@vikrantharukiy7160
Жыл бұрын
Lol
@JustAnotherCommenter
Жыл бұрын
Rotating it by a slight degree is already impossible
@Woodledude
Жыл бұрын
But where will you grab it from???
@syfx1485
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if a program can actually detect a mate-in-ω mate, let alone a mate-in-(ω^n) mate. Feels kinda similar to the halting problem
@PhilliesWin
Жыл бұрын
I had this very position in a tournament just last week. I announced mate in w^2 and my opponent said “I wondered if you’d see that,” and immediately resigned.
@aprilvee9154
Жыл бұрын
imagine typing w^2 instead of ω²
@spektator5418
Жыл бұрын
@@aprilvee9154 not everyone has that I think
@methatis3013
Жыл бұрын
@@spektator5418you just add another keyboard, it's not exactly rocket science
@shauas4224
Жыл бұрын
@@methatis3013 yeah and then every time you want to change language you need to go over omega squared layouts
@methatis3013
Жыл бұрын
@@shauas4224 idk how it works on other systems, but on my huawei I just swipe to change the keyboard. I have on top of my native one, German, Russian and Greek keyboards
@claudi917
Жыл бұрын
I've never realized how important the 50 moves rule is
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
🤣
@BlueProgamer212
Жыл бұрын
Just imagine your immortal 400 elo opponent playing a variant of Chess with no threefold repetition, can't block checks and no 50 move rule. You only have one legal move to evade the check. Give him an infinite amount of time, and and that 400 elo opponent will keep checking you forever.
@kosuken
Жыл бұрын
lol @@BlueProgamer212
@霍金本人
Жыл бұрын
But I can win after omega steps, why would I choose to invoke the 50 moves rule?
@kdevelopergw
Жыл бұрын
actually, the 50 moves rule wouldn't be applied to the second position with the infinite pawn wall, since the 50 move rule is reset on pawn push the 1000 move rule is where it's at, it does not get affected by anything, if a game is 1000 moves long, the game ends in a draw
@PetersLabAviation
Жыл бұрын
Mathematicians: How an infinite hotel ran out of rooms Naviary: How an infinitely far rook ran out of checks
@Bhuvan_MS
Жыл бұрын
Infinity never fails to amaze me with its complexity!
@angelmendez-rivera351
Жыл бұрын
This is just inaccurate. Hilbert's Hotel never "ran out of rooms," and the rook was never infinitely away. This was explicitly clarified in the video. I am confused as to how people missed this part of the video.
@youssefchihab1613
Жыл бұрын
@@angelmendez-rivera351 You are probably the type of guy who tries to look for every logical flaw in a joke just to ruin it also I think if you give the hotel an infinite amount of buses each with an infinite amount of people it would be full, right ?
@angelmendez-rivera351
Жыл бұрын
@@youssefchihab1613 The joke ruined itself by presenting an inaccurate statement as if it were fact. It defeats the entire point of the format. The Hotel is still not "full" in the situation you describe
@solsystem1342
Жыл бұрын
@@angelmendez-rivera351 I mean, the hotel usually starts full? That's kinda the whole point with showing how the union of two countable infinities is the same size as them. Or for how the set of all rational numbers is the same size as the the whole numbers.
@dazcarrr
Жыл бұрын
you've heard of forcing a draw, now get ready for forcing the heat death of the universe
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
😂
@galois6569
Жыл бұрын
When you have mate in omega, but you opponent knows you have a flight the next day.
@cyberfunk4580
Жыл бұрын
August 12, 2036 heat death of the universe
@lejoueurfreetoplay
Жыл бұрын
Bro's about to make chess longer than monopoly
@hurhurhurgreg
9 ай бұрын
@@cyberfunk4580no
@justinbent5848
Жыл бұрын
I feel like logic gates could be possible, which would mean that in theory you could program chess inside of infinite chess.
@nanamacapagal8342
Жыл бұрын
Oh no. You have started it. The curse of Turing. You know bad apple, doom, and AO3 in infinite chess are coming.
@iCarus_A
Жыл бұрын
I'm having trouble making an infinite chess program Turing complete, as you necessarily start with a finite number of pieces and each time a logic gate would have to capture a piece. I think you can program some sort of an Adder but the program seems incapable of infinite recursion. That's not to say that you can't program anything at all, though.
@TunaBear64
Жыл бұрын
@@nanamacapagal8342Doom on Infinite Chess would be hilarious to play
@the_multus
Жыл бұрын
@@iCarus_Aunless you introduce a custom piece…
@СергейМакеев-ж2н
Жыл бұрын
@@iCarus_A I wouldn't rule out Turing completeness yet. After all, a Minsky machine has only a finite number of moving parts, but it's still Turing complete. Hypothesis: maybe the logic gates should be encoded not in captures that *actually* happen, but in captures that *might have* happened, but are in fact avoided, assuming perfect play. That way you can keep the number of pieces constant.
@lizzyfleckenstein9837
Жыл бұрын
the reason I love this video is because it approaches transfinite numbers from a perspective where it actually gives them a meaning/purpose, rather than just being a crazy fever dream of symbols
@badateverything2931
Жыл бұрын
so incredibly based
@NotSomeJustinWithoutAMoustache
11 ай бұрын
Crazy fever dream of symbols without meaning/purpose, or pure maths, are kinda' fun though.
@lizzyfleckenstein9837
11 ай бұрын
@@NotSomeJustinWithoutAMoustache depends, imo. I like abstract maths, but I watched the VSauce video about transfinite numbers and I was kinda like "Ok cool, but what does it really mean for a number to be beyond finite? Are we just defining it to be that and that's it?" I think it needs to have some sort of application, abstract or not, otherwise it's just making random stuff up.
@NotSomeJustinWithoutAMoustache
11 ай бұрын
@@lizzyfleckenstein9837Making stuff up is abstract maths, that's pure mathematics. It's previously unthought of so you would have to invent names and figure stuff up about it, hell it's why math is even seen by some as an invention rather than a discovery, it quite literally is made up, even the useful ones. And it is fun to make the stuff up according to math rules. Another thing is sometimes a math concept is so abstract or exotic that it's use will not even be discovered far into the future, so I think the mindset with math "made-up stuff" isn't "this is useful" and "this is useless", but rather "this is useful now" and "this will be useful". Just because there's no known application in the math you're in doesn't mean there never will be, in fact it makes more sense to think no matter how abstract and utterly "made-up" your math stuffs are they will inevitably find a use and so you can just leave the discovery of the applications and practical uses to others, people in the future, and you (assuming you're the abstract mathematician) focus on what you're best at, figuring the rules of this thing you just made-up, so that the people in the future who will find a use for it will no longer need to tally the maths as some random guy with too much time years ago already computed and written down the rules of the abstract for them.
@empereurloutre
9 ай бұрын
@@lizzyfleckenstein9837 Ordinals are very fundamental in set theory, they clearly have "abstract applications". For example, Cardinals are specific ordinals.
@minotaur470
Жыл бұрын
I feel like having a forced mate in ω has to be a win condition similar to someone resigning against you and checkmate. You'd have to make that a separate rule though, since in normal chess if you see forced mate you just play it and win, or the opponent sees it and resigns. Since you can make omega arbitrarily large, you'd have to be able to declare that you see mate in omega, have a judge agree, and give you the win. Very cool and very entertaining to overthink
@abj136
Жыл бұрын
In the 1800s it was a practice to declare mate-in-X. This is clearly the way.
@MagicGonads
Жыл бұрын
I think you'd rather the rule be "mate-in-w where w is not less than ω" as it's easy to see how a "mate-in-ω+1" (or any "mate-in-W+ω where w is a positive discrete ordinal") can be missed and you'd rather not have to specify by exactly how much...
@adayah2933
Жыл бұрын
Why not just play the mate out? Even though ω is infinite, mate in ω actually implies that for any strategy the opponent takes it will take a finite number of moves to mate them.
@taelim6599
Жыл бұрын
@@adayah2933 Because being finite doesn't guarantee that it won't be excessively large. If I move the rook 5 million squares away and we decide to play the mate out, both players as well as the audience have to sit through 5 million turns of everyone already knowing in advance who is going to win.
@adayah2933
Жыл бұрын
@@taelim6599 Right, but how would you convince the judge that the position is a mate-in-ω? Sometimes proving it is harder than just playing it out.
@emeraldnickel
Жыл бұрын
I feel like it would be funny if, in a situation like this, you could declare "mate in ω" and whoever has more time left on their clock wins. It wouldn't be balanced, but it would be funny
@КарповМихаил
Жыл бұрын
This seems to be quite reasonable.
@Muhahahahaz
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, but if you’re playing with increment, then you’d just get like 5 * ω extra time… 🤔
@JasonMitchellofcompsci
Жыл бұрын
I think it would be more reasonable to give the person with mate in ω the win. But I have a feeling there are symmetric cases. In that case it goes to the person who declares it.
@OverfluxOrb
11 ай бұрын
Mate in Omega^Omega, in other words, mate in omega omega-ed
@mothrahlurker788
9 ай бұрын
Remember, there aren't actually infinitely many moves played, the actual number played is finite, just unbounded.
@ryr4242
Жыл бұрын
i was struggling to think of how to infinitely drag on my game when my rook got trapped in an infinitely long tower of pawns last week, this vid really helped me out!
@no-bk4zx
Жыл бұрын
If anybody found the concept of ordinals interesting, I highly highly recommend watching "How to Count Past Infinity" by Vsauce. I believe a few of the visuals regarding ordinals in this video was from his video.
@derpinator4912
Жыл бұрын
You can see the watermark placed in the bottom left. I recognized it was Vsauce and looked for it.
@irok1
Жыл бұрын
That video started my path down infinities
@Xnoob545
Жыл бұрын
Speaking of large numbers and infinities a KZitemr called Orbital Nebula has a series on large finite and infinite numbers
@tuff_lover
Жыл бұрын
No shit, ofc he was inspired by Michael.
@powerflame
Жыл бұрын
@@Xnoob545oh hey xnoobspeakable
@desent493
Жыл бұрын
This is very cool. I like how this really illustrates that ordinals have no descending chains - no matter how high the checkmate clock is, the game will always end in finitely many moves!
@IHadz
Жыл бұрын
this is some actual quality content, you will defenetly get famous one day
@anttimarjamaki6875
Жыл бұрын
On average people arent smart enough to stay interested in these complex themes for long. But there is a small enthusiastic audience nontheless :)
@clivah1499
Жыл бұрын
fame matter not, good matter
@dragosel505
Жыл бұрын
agree
@lorenzodiambra5210
Жыл бұрын
imagine you are playing chess against a computer and "checkmate in ω•ω moves"" appears on the screen
@trgdev
Жыл бұрын
Yes!
@qwertico8688
Жыл бұрын
This is one of the best chess KZitemrs I’ve seen keep up the good work! Edit: Wow ty for the likes
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Thank you! 😃
@qwertico8688
Жыл бұрын
@@Naviaryno problem :D
@trempton4106
Жыл бұрын
@@Naviary About the Mate in Omega square problem: Wouldnt it be better for white to take the rook between the pawns with th right pawn so that the white king could hide between the pawns and not get checked every move? By doing this it wouldnt be Mate in Omega Square but Mate in Omega + X except if the black King tries to block the hole, then it would also take forever since the black King is above the white King and therefore would be faster at the hole. Or it ends in a stalemate because of move repetition as the black king tries to not let the white king upwards. I refer to the problem where black has two rooks. One free and the other between the pawns.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
@trempton4106 Someone else also noticed this. Yes blacks free rook can cut off white king from heading to the hole, while black's king calmly makes its way to the hole to prevent the white pawns from pushing further. White can no longer make progress and it will be draw by indefinite play. Black likes this as a draw is an improvement from losing, so whites best option still is to capture with a pawn from the left wall.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
I think actually the rook needs to be the one to block the pawns from pushing, and the black king prevent the white king from coming near the hole.
@emmagoldstein3511
Жыл бұрын
"I Made Chess, but It's Infinite" -- well you had my curiosity... "Mate-In-Omega, The Great Phenomenon of Infinite Chess" -- ...but now you have my attention
@Brillieisnothuman
Жыл бұрын
I love the creativity of how he asked to subscribe
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
😁
@paperwhite3853
Жыл бұрын
It was unexpected, but convenient. Only he missed the astonishing tactic "I'm alredy subscriber".
@rtxagent6303
Жыл бұрын
I learned the hard way not to move a piece to far otherwise it becomes unclickable. Hard to snipe your opponent when you can’t click your own bishop.
@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn
Жыл бұрын
just zoom into it
@Izzythemaker127
Жыл бұрын
I've tried moving super far out, its possible, but its invisible and also you don't click where you would expect you would need to.
@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn
Жыл бұрын
@@Izzythemaker127 moving 10000 squares away has basically the same effects as moving 272 squares
@rtxagent6303
Жыл бұрын
@@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn Have you tried moving it literal billions of squares out. If you waste moves by moving your piece further and further back it lets you zoom out more and more so that its possible to move it so far you cant click on it again.
@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn
Жыл бұрын
@@rtxagent6303 but why would you do that
@RADZina
Жыл бұрын
seeing the phrase "mate in omega" on my recommended sent me through the 5 stages of grief instantaneously
@menschenskind1
Жыл бұрын
Props to you explaining omega with an infinite chess board. Can't wait to see the other part.
@notyourfault2047
Жыл бұрын
when my brain clicked as you finished explaining mate in omega^2 i was like "oh noooooooooo" like out loud because i realised that it really does have the potential to be infinite and thats just insane
@xane256
Жыл бұрын
I've had people try to explain cardinal vs ordinal numbers to me in the past, but this video really made it *click* for me! Thank you!!
@smoking_apple
Жыл бұрын
i can just imagine 2 omnipotent gods playing with infinite time and they never win or even draw and just move pieces for millenia
@FinalWarrior591
Жыл бұрын
So basically, the Ellimist vs. Crayak.
@jesusisea3774
Жыл бұрын
As a mathematician who has actually worked with ordinals before, this was surely something quite interesting! I'm sharing this video with my colleagues and I hope they can get interested in playing chess as well!
@Rock_Appreciator
Жыл бұрын
Awesome work! Actually love what your infinite chess is able to bring to the table. The mate in omega concept is very cool 🤔
@Muhahahahaz
Жыл бұрын
Finally, an “application” where ordinal numbers actually make sense! I formally learned about cardinals in school, so I understand those well enough… But I only heard about ordinals later on, and they never really made sense to me lol
@ccfffvbbbbbffg1774
Жыл бұрын
Damn bro, you learned about cardinals in school? I can't believe schools waste time teaching stuff like that when they could be teaching actually useful stuff. (This is sarcasm)
@antoinedragnir142
Жыл бұрын
For people who dont understand Omega : The first position is mate in Omega but once black move their rook (for exemples 100 case) this is no more mate in Omega but mate in 100. Same for the second position. Until black move, this is mate in Omega square. But if black move the rook 100 case, this now mate in 100•Omega. (100 times Omega) Hope it help
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
I'll have to go into detail of how exactly the checkmate clock descends with every move in future mate-in-omega episodes!
@kiwi_2_official
Жыл бұрын
@@Naviary make mate-in-ω^Blasphemorgulus video
@or3213
Жыл бұрын
That Omega^2 example blew my mind. Great video and amazing concept!
@galoomba5559
11 ай бұрын
People have come up with an omega^4 position.
@hypnogri5457
11 ай бұрын
@@galoomba5559Where?
@inbarkurti4524
Жыл бұрын
bro your channel and work is just amazing, you gonna blow up
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Thanks! :)
@GynxShinx
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, it's weird that we consider avoiding mate as long as possible to be "perfect play" in a forced mate situation. If we assume the opponent is perfect too, then the outcome is the same regardless, forced mate. If the opponent is a potentially flawed player then the "perfect play" move would be the most confusing, to make it look like it isn't forced mate. Often times, this will be the one that prolongs the game most, but that's just a tendency like how playing the move that gives the opponent the least move choices possible is usually a good move.
@marioisawesome8218
8 ай бұрын
you raise an interesting point. here is some clarification: mate in X assumes perfect play from both players, and it calculates how long the best moves from the losing player would allow them to survive. if they make an improper move, the mate in X drastically drops. if the losing player can take a position where they cannot be checked on the next move, then there is no mate in X.
@furkabaan567
Жыл бұрын
I barely understand normal chess now i am trying to understand mate in ω^2
@EdKolis
Жыл бұрын
This omega squared cycle of checks reminds me of that one episode of Doctor Who where Peter Capaldi's Doctor got stuck inside a world that would repeatedly reset itself but not quite, allowing himself to escape after a few billion years!
@parallax8298
Жыл бұрын
bro this is some really good content, i really hope this vid pops off like before
@pianoforte611
Жыл бұрын
This was fantastic, this reminded me of the fast growing hierarchy as soon as you explained how omega worked. And I was looking forward to omega ^ omega or even epsilon.
@metajore3580
9 ай бұрын
How about an inaccessible cardinal
@rosearachnid879
Жыл бұрын
This is so cool! I’d love to see custom pieces in infinite chess, maybe with even a custom piece editor like the CEO piece maker. Could have so much cool mate-in-ω potential with pieces like the Thief from Faerie Chess.
@Keosystem511
8 ай бұрын
Imagine checkmating your opponent on this infinite board and then just "Haha, you didnt see my bishop from 80928021938 squares away"
@triplebog
Жыл бұрын
It's interesting, magic the gathering has a set of rules for dealing with similar omega based scenarios. Wherein one player demonstrates an infinite loop, but then must declare a number of times to repeat until they choose a different action. Then the other player may choose a different, smaller number, to allow the cycle to repeat before they deviate their action and break the cycle. Once that happens, the game shortcuts and jumps ahead to the end of the loop where they make a different action. It seems like a similar ruleset could be adapted to infinite chess. It is not uncommon for games in some formats to wind up with a player having a billion life totals because they created an infinite loop
@kosuken
Жыл бұрын
Ordinal numbers really are fascinating. I have a few theories for mate in omega^3 or mate in omega tetrated to 2. But mill keep it in mind and see if I were right or wrong
@MichaelDarrow-tr1mn
Жыл бұрын
Mate in w^w? Describe the position because the best known is w^4
@AverageCommenterOnYT
9 ай бұрын
How would w^^2 exist
@circle-of-5ths
8 ай бұрын
@@AverageCommenterOnYT A complex and convoluted pawn structure, probably an "omega" amount of bishops, rooks and queens, and a few knight forks as well.
@DsiakMondala
Жыл бұрын
When I stood up and said "Gentleman I have an announcement to make" at the local championship they kicked me out :(
@theruined2190
Жыл бұрын
Imagine sitting at the chess table, ready to fight your opponent and you didnt even made a move and he already called it mate-in-ω²"
@VanishShovel
Жыл бұрын
Wow this is somthing special very facinating concept I have heard about this but it never made sense to me but you have fixed that! Looking foward for more keep it up!
@potatoman3219
Жыл бұрын
5:09 the sub plug was insane
@ryukohehe
Жыл бұрын
Great content . Short crisp and to the point. Mate in Omega situations really are very interesting to even think about let alone the infinite concept
@Ykulvaarlck
Жыл бұрын
the way i think about it is, if the checkmate clock shows an ordinal at some turn, then on the next turn it must show a smaller ordinal. for omega the only smaller ordinals are any finite number, but they can be arbitrarily large. for omega squared, the only smaller ordinals are finite multiples of omega plus some finite number.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Correct! Decreasing ordinals must always reach zero! In a future continuation of this series I'll go more into detail of it!
@enpassantcheckmate
Жыл бұрын
congrats on making your second video, last video was amazing and I had some fun playing infinites chess with my friends, continue uploading this amazing content
@lucio01
Жыл бұрын
Opponent thinks he checkmated me. My bishop bishop from 1 centillion squares away:
@nnotcircuit010
Жыл бұрын
You should cover non-computable strategies.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
That's a whole world I need to study more! 🤔
@artsenor254
Жыл бұрын
Me watching your first video's miniature : "Yeah, whatever, just another chess variation, pretty sure I've seen something like this somewhere." Me watching this video's miniature : "Ok, now that looks dope".
@hy7864
Жыл бұрын
5:21 -Never let them know ur next move- -*Q moves up 4 squares-
@ayberkgirgin3864
Жыл бұрын
then rooks start to check
@hy7864
Жыл бұрын
@@ayberkgirgin3864 how? Unless u mean white rook then yes the next step is checkmate it with queen
@ayberkgirgin3864
Жыл бұрын
@@hy7864 black rooks
@hy7864
Жыл бұрын
@@ayberkgirgin3864 how?
@blacknyellow962
Жыл бұрын
"Two people found playing a singular game of chess for over 30 days without stopping. Onlookers are both impressed and terrified."
@howtpotypo
Жыл бұрын
this is a really good video. please please please make a follow up explaining omega^3 or higher mates
@arrowtongue
Жыл бұрын
"How to count past Infinity" mentioned!!! great video
@ThatVillain-the-Gamer
Жыл бұрын
For that example, I think moving the rook on the right down two might be the best move, as it prevents instant checkmate and gives the king more than one line to move in
@The_Commandblock
Жыл бұрын
This was one of the best videos i saw in a while.
@serphorus
Жыл бұрын
Mate in tetrated omega?
@abellematheux7632
Жыл бұрын
If we can have alef_0 (= beth_0) pieces, we can't have mate in omegaCK (Church-Kleen ordinal), but I have to admite I have no idea of what is the real smallest ordinal we can't reach. Maybe omega^omega, or epsilon_0 ? Well... in reality, if the actual ordinal is omegaCK, the actual limite ordinal can actually be omega_1 if we can have uncalculable board. (I am French, my English can be bad)
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
I have heard from researchers that you can obtain any ordinal position up to but NOT including omega_1. So it will be awesome to see these positions come into existence!
@abellematheux7632
Жыл бұрын
@@Naviary Interesting. I think mates in epsilon_0 or more are very complexes. And mates in more than omegaCK (which is < than omega_1) will be in boards absolutely incalculables (the repartition of the infinity pieces is mathematically unpredictible). (and maybe infinite Chess can be Turing complete too, idk)
@OldsReporter
Жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! I've never understood ordinals until I watched your "mate-in-Omega-squared".
@potats5916
Жыл бұрын
This is one of the most entertaining videos I've seen ever. I love physics and math, and seeing it combined with chess and presented in such a clean way is so good. You've made a sub out of me for sure
@DoomRutabaga
Жыл бұрын
Around 2 minutes in the number in "mate-in-__" fades out at 69
@egormusatov6280
Жыл бұрын
That bishop 1 quintillion tiles away:
@danburrykerman6826
11 ай бұрын
The video is more about learning what Omega is than actually playing Chess on a gridmap.
@repacharge431
Жыл бұрын
You are an incredible youtuber man, keep up the great work!
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@m_affiliates
10 ай бұрын
as someone who is learning greek, i can confirm that this is exactly what the ancient greeks thought their ω letter would be used for in 3000 years
@sansUnderlddcvl
Жыл бұрын
0:08 "there is something magnetic about it"
@Cloud67TR
8 ай бұрын
MAGNus carlsen
@breakbolt9973
Жыл бұрын
At 4:01 this isn't actually a mate in Omega. Either the queen or rook can prevent the king from moving by moving a few tiles up ahead of it. Trapping it. There's also the fact at any point the queen or rook can just skewer the king to grab the rook behind it. Since there's no backrow the only way to force mate will be to wait for the white king to get over there.
@not_vinkami
Жыл бұрын
I bet someone would discover mate-in-a-fraction very soon with this
@sirk603
Жыл бұрын
Don’t think so. Chess works in whole numbers only, so a fractional love simply can’t happen
@f1reflam3
Жыл бұрын
I love how you used clips from that one Vsauce video! I've rewatched it multiple times, it's very underrated.
@bradyk6017
Жыл бұрын
Amazing work! As a video editor I want to provide one bit of constructive criticism, and I hope that I'm not offending with this especially since I know criticism was unasked for. But like I said, this is awesome content and I think this one tidbit of advice is worth it if it can improve your content even more. The song in the intro carries an association with low quality content. Many popular songs from NCS have this association because absolute beginners have been grabbing these songs to use in their projects for years. I know that you know how important it is to establish credibility in the intro since you clearly put quite a bit of effort into it, but in my opinion the song choice is counterproductive to that. Many editors say that sound is just as, if not more important than visuals, and while my eyes were seeing high-effort content in the intro, my ears were hearing an amateur production. The reason I felt the need to make this comment is I really enjoyed this video, and I feel like this one seemingly small choice might be slightly undermining all of the great work you put into this video. I would recommend finding an intro song that is similar to the detective music that you use throughout the video, but with more grandeur to serve the intro. You could definitely find something like that on KZitem with enough searching, but if you're having difficulties with discovering songs on YT I would recommend looking into a service such as Epidemic Sound that you can pay a small subscription to and get access to a ton of songs (that you will have the rights to) with easy filtering options. Anyways, I wrote much more than I expected haha, once again I apologize for the unsolicited criticism and I hope to see more content from you!
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
I hadn't thought of that. I did put effort into making a custom version of it for the intro, but I didn't think people associate it with amateur content. Thanks for the advice! I'll re-think using NCS tracks.
@MOORE4U2
Жыл бұрын
So... NCS is the audio version of Comic Sans?
@angerberry
Жыл бұрын
@@MOORE4U2essentially
@nif4345
Жыл бұрын
ARE YOU CALLING MIKAN BASIC
@SadToffee
8 ай бұрын
Time to watch a video about a concept I don't understand, applied to a game I don't understand, with a result that I very likely will not understand.
@PiniutLEGIT
8 ай бұрын
to shorten it to you: the creator of the video misunderstood the concept of "Mate-In-X" prediction basically the whole video is wrong and tries to solve the problem that doesn't exist
@SadToffee
8 ай бұрын
@@PiniutLEGIT im going to be honest I was just making a joke. I do in fact understand.
@pepn
Жыл бұрын
Super well-made video and the topic is really interesting. I usually don't like calls to subscribe but yours is so well integrated that it would have gotten me if i didn't already click the infamous button
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@pyros6139
Жыл бұрын
This is actually really relevant to John Conway's concept of ordinals, where each number is actually a game. It actually opened up even more than ordinals, weird numbers like omega minus 1 and omega divided by 2.
@chessartist
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating concept! More infinite chess please!
@hy7864
Жыл бұрын
-U too-
@Stacpolice
Жыл бұрын
4:54 smooth transition
@Lovuschka
Жыл бұрын
If we take the 50 moves rule into consideration, that pawn tower indeed allows White to checkmate in any arbitrary number of moves set by Black.
@william3371
Жыл бұрын
Literally nobody talking about how infinite chess literally breaks the endgame system because pawns can’t promote without an edge-of-board goal to reach
@PainTensei551
Жыл бұрын
You explained such a hard topic to understand so well, big kudos ❤🎉
@Paragolaballanims
28 күн бұрын
Stockfish: You missed a win The win in Particular:
@l9m241
Жыл бұрын
Okay. This got me thinking, in theory it would be possible in a layout to have an mate-in-ω for both sides? Imagine a crazy stall tactic of both teams going at it, and it would theatrically be determined who moved further, but if they moved the same distance, would it be a tie? Or still mate-in-ω? Or even a possibility of a setup of mate-in-ω with a tie being the only way to break it?
@MrMatzetoni
Жыл бұрын
maybe one can construct a symmetric variant of the mate-in-ω-position from the video, where both would lose to a mate-in-ω if they do the first move. but whoever does the first move is bound to lose, because the other player will not have to move their rook at all. they will just play the checks to get the mate-in-ω. so in that case i think whoever moves first loses to mate-in-ω. it would be interesting however to find a tie-in-ω-layout.
@the_multus
Жыл бұрын
Such a cool comment! Thank you! Now I'm going to my thinking booth…
@adayah2933
Жыл бұрын
No, it is impossible for one side to have a mate-in-α and for the other to have a mate-in-β for any ordinals α, β. Proof (by contradiction): suppose white has a mate-in-α and black has a mate-in-β. Without loss of generality it is white's turn and (α, β) is minimal.* On the one hand, there is a move after which white has a mate-in-γ for some γ
@YoavShilon-e2r
Жыл бұрын
This video is brilliant! Mate in Omega squared blew my mind!!
@gabrielmorales7208
Жыл бұрын
This mate in ω^2 made me laugh so hard. So stupid yet so fascinating.
@Moonkat358
Жыл бұрын
Finally: now I can be checkmated by a bishop from 72 million squares away
@InsanityKillstreak
Жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work!
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@InsanityKillstreak
Жыл бұрын
@@Naviary :)
@jedstanaland2897
Жыл бұрын
This is one of many very intriguing concepts involving chess that I have seen recently and they are getting better. There are two additional ideas I have recently thought of. One is an infinite plane which has multiple games going on at the same time and it would basically be a situation where the actions in one area is allowed to affect each other but only adjacent games can do so. Each game is separated by two spaces but can only draw pieces from games within their horizon. For example they could draw pieces only from the eight around the initial starting area until they interact with a neighbor then both players are able to draw from their neighbors neighbors and so on. Interaction would require one of the players to cross the gap to another game at which point all pieces would be grey and all pieces could potentially be moved by either player until one player took a piece at which point the first player to take a piece from another game would immediately force whatever side they captured a piece from into their opponent.
@jamesn.5721
Жыл бұрын
Is there a paper I can read associated with this? Seems like a really fun way to work with set theory and spaces
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
Here you can find a paper about transfinite game values in infinite chess! arxiv.org/abs/1302.4377
@thatoneperson6046
6 ай бұрын
The internet has corrupted me. I saw "mate" and "omega" and you damn well know what was on my mind 💀
@MichaelCoombes776
Жыл бұрын
So, if an engine could be made to play infinite chess (should be possible, there are no fancy rules), would it be able to find mate in ω or would it freeze as a kind of "halting problem" issue? If you capped its search depth to prevent freezing, how would it evaluate a mate in ω position?
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
It would need some kind of complex algorithm to detect the patterns in omega positions. Brute force calculating moves may not work.
@kabelabel6118
Жыл бұрын
As a mathematician, while this is really interesting, idk if ordinals are the correct framework to use here. The mate does happen in finite time no matter what. It's just that our set of forced mates is not, like, bounded. Mate in omega, for me, would be like if the players actually performed an infinite sequence of moves, and the checkmate happens at the limit. The problem with that is that you would need to define what convergence means on a chess board lol.
@Naviary
Жыл бұрын
I'm no mathematician. But the omega kind of means the supremum, where the number of moves could be any number up to but not including infinity. As moves are made, the ordinal value strictly follows a descending sequence that always eventually leads to 0. There's a link to a paper in the description.
@tissuepaper9962
8 ай бұрын
Vihart introduced me to the countably-infinite ordinals all those years ago, but today you've finally given me a concrete way to understand when and how to apply the concept.
@hassanalihusseini1717
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. I was searching for this kind of video as I read many years ago about infinite chess, I think it was in Scientific American? Magnus Carlsen still will win the endgame! 🙂 Even it will take long, especially at the end.....
@tylerlarsen1842
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely mad thought: mate-in-epsilon-naught
@residentfacehead3465
Жыл бұрын
I was not expecting a callout of apl things to the "Jurassic Rook Incident."
@GEMOTO
Жыл бұрын
this is a beautiful expansion of vi hart's videos fused with the current popular chess zeitgeist, absolutely revolutionary
@prithvisinghpanwar6609
Жыл бұрын
when i miss a forced mate according to stockfish The Mate:
@chaosinsurgency884
Жыл бұрын
You just casually managed to square a number that we can't actually count and act like its just a normal tuesday.
@steeevealbright
10 ай бұрын
I’ve come back to this video again, and i just realized something kinda interesting about the first composition. It’s only mate in omega until black makes his first move! Then it’s mate in a specific real number.
@Naviary
10 ай бұрын
You are correct. Every turn cycle the checkmate clock decreases, closer to zero!
@justnobody5527
Жыл бұрын
Neat, I love how ive seen this same exact video concept like 3-4 years ago but just as a hypothetical, chess truely has been around forever.
@mina9e
Жыл бұрын
we were so focused on whether we could, we didn't stop to consider if we should
@jonathanspears3484
Жыл бұрын
Love the Infinite Series shout outs, really helped me too.
@desmondruhling
Жыл бұрын
This is such a good video!!! I genuinely can’t believe that you’ve only made two so far- it seems like you’ve been doing this for a while! Infinity and omega are such cool concepts and I find the things you can do with them fascinating. Combine that with chess, a game I love, and you have the perfect mixture.
@dub-jscrub-j2762
Жыл бұрын
Taking spite checks to the next level!
@PiniutLEGIT
Жыл бұрын
3:39 Mate-in-One Sure, you can use your "Omega" to holdout for longer, but it only looks for quickest way for mate, not the longest. 5:47 Mate-in-Five Again, we only look for quiickest way to mate. The "checkmate clock" will update AFTER black's move, so the "Mate-In-Omega" isn't really real. Sure, the amount of moves can be (in)finite by forcing to back away, but you still don't try to predict a move that can be the longest, when you want to predict a move that's the quickest. 2:09 Also this position is impossible due to the black pawn being WAY behind the possible original positions, and pawns can't go backwards - unless it's all inverted and black started at the bottom and white at the top.
Пікірлер: 1,8 М.