Juan, this happened about 100 yards from my house. I saw it and was interviewed by the NTSB. The plane flew thru the rotor of the R-22 with the right side landing gear. Breaking off all or parts of the gear it looked like the rotor slapped the tail boom and practically cut it in half. The R-22 wadded up as it fell straight to the ground and it caught fire immediately. Cars immediately stooped and ran to render aid but the fire was too intense as a small brush fire ignited in the trees. Such a sad event. The student in the R-22 was 7 days short of his first daughters 1st birthday. Both CFI’s and students in the R22 were by all accounts amazing husbands, fathers, employees, and friends. Terrible loss for the families and the community. Thank you Juan for once again providing context to these events. Keeps us all on our toes. We are large tight knit aviation community in this area. A mile from here we have our own aviation home community with our own runway. We love it and most of us knew these CFI’s in some capacity. We all are feeling their loss terribly and look forward to learning what happened so as not to ever let it happen again. Thanks Juan!!
@keithshoffner1287
2 жыл бұрын
I'm not Juan (obviously) but I wanted to say thank you to JP for the additional eyewitness info..... Thank you @Jeff Pickett.
@doktortodes
2 жыл бұрын
As soon as I heard about this collision I started watching close for Mr. Brownes analysis. Always top tier, minimally speculative, non judgmental analysis. I’ve had so many in cockpit discussions with CFIs about the latest event or two that’s on this channel. The information is well received for analysis and learning
@normadesmond9659
2 жыл бұрын
Another respectful and professional analysis Juan. Condolences to the families who lost loved ones. The heli student was a Navy vet with a beautiful family. Prayers for them all.
@sheldoniusRex
2 жыл бұрын
Was the heli student a KZitemr? I think I've seen a navy vet on KZitem who talks about taking heli lessons.
@aitorbleda8267
2 жыл бұрын
@@sheldoniusRex You are referring to C.W. Lemoine, he posted something 8 hours ago, not him. Still a tragedy.
@sheldoniusRex
2 жыл бұрын
@@aitorbleda8267 Yeah that's him. I couldn't remember his name. Definitely a tragedy to lose someone who clearly had an interest in flying and a brother vet too. Sad day.
@Repomam2000
2 жыл бұрын
I was doing helicopter flight training at this airport in 2002 and had a near miss with a fixed wing aircraft. I was doing the same Charlie pattern as you described. The fixed wing made a shortened downwind just as this scenario and narrowly missed us. We saw the plane out of the top of the windscreen and immediately entered an auto rotation out of sheer terror. By the time we saw it, it was too late to have mattered anyway if we would have hit. The tower saw this and allowed us to land on the taxiway and get out to gather our thoughts and check our shorts. The fixed wind aircraft flying out of an Aerobatics club at this airport had a history, at the time, of pilots flying modified patterns as they pleased. To this day, I dont know how we didn't hit that plane with our blades. It definitly shook us up. We had just flown out of Stellar Air Park a few minutes away. As you said, it was all pretty much mostly farm land back then.
@Repomam2000
2 жыл бұрын
I did a phone report with the airport manager and the FAA. I never heard anything more about it other than the club was going to get "another" talking to.
@77thTrombone
2 жыл бұрын
Gadzooks. It's nice to be in a club that protects you from personal accountability.
@MeppyMan
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve had a close call like that before (but both were helicopters) and it’s not a fun experience. Just avoiding the collision nearly caused me to crash on short finals.
@Repomam2000
2 жыл бұрын
@@MeppyMan it definitly stays with you. As soon as I saw the news report and this it all came back to me. I swear I could see rivets on the underside of the planes fuselage.
@Repomam2000
2 жыл бұрын
@@77thTrombone I wonder what Jaun would have to say about that? Maybe because it was sparsely populated they allowed more cowboy flying. I believe the plane was performing a slip maneuver. I remember seeing the left underside of the wing and the left rear fuselage.
@markhuffman7937
2 жыл бұрын
I’ll try to be brief. I’ve been flying and kept my airplanes out of CHD since the mid 90’s. I’m an airline guy for a living but also have my CFII in airplanes and helicopters. I did my commercial add-on at Quantum Helicopters at CHD 20 years ago and still occasionally instruct in helicopters at FFZ in Mesa. Quantum has a very strict safety program as to pattern ops to avoid conflicts with fixed wing aircraft. They are one of the largest Heli schools in the country and have been at CHD since around 1995. To the best of my knowledge, up until this accident, they have never had a fatality and are highly regarded in the helicopter community. Two things I do know. The Archer was advised about helicopters in the Charlie pattern (there were 2) and airplane short approaches are NEVER allowed to the south runway when the Charlie pattern is active.
@zorro4962
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the insight. Quick question, is this airport busy enough with fixed winged traffic that they need both runways or do they open it up when it’s busy? Just trying to make sense why the pattern work changed from one runway to another. Disclosure. I’m not a pilot; however, love flying when I get the opportunity.
@finallyflying9534
2 жыл бұрын
@@zorro4962, hello there. I also fly out of Chandler airport. I earned my pilot certificate in 2015 and it's been my home airport ever since then. The North runway (4L) is mostly used for arrivals and departures, and flight training (i.e. T&G). The South runway (4R) is commonly used for arrivals that are coming from the South as well T&G. Runway 4R is only used for departures when 4L is closed, or if a larger aircraft specifically requests it (4R is slightly longer). In calm winds, the airport will use 4L and 4R as this helps with noise abatement for the residential areas South of the airport. It is fairly common to start off on the North runway doing T&G, and the be switched to the South Runway. It's also fairly common to be on approach for landing for the North runway, and to then be switched over to the South runway when you're just a few miles out. During flight training I remember doing T&G on the South runway with helicopters in the traffic pattern. We'd always pay very close attention to where they were and make sure we kept separation from them. As has been mentioned, KCHD is a very busy airport. Controllers need the ability to use both runways to accommodate the large amount of traffic that the airport generates. However, there are times when traffic is slower. For example, in the summer afternoons when temps hit 115 to almost 120, hardly anyone is flying. In those circumstances, traffic will be reduced and everyone will mostly operate out of the North runway. The South runway would likely only be used for arriving traffic that is using one of the instrument approaches.
@cameronhoward99
2 жыл бұрын
Im a flight instructor at the next door airport (KIWA) to CHD. I was out flying with a student when this happened. It's terribly sad. I know that at IWA next door it gets so busy that sometimes you're the 6th 7th or 8th person in the pattern for that runway. Sometimes we'll get our landing clearance when we're number 4 or 5 in the pattern to land and it can be hard to keep track of all the aircraft in front of you. We also have helicopter ops at IWA on our taxiway C. Never been much of a problem as tower does a great job keeping us fixed wing pilots aware. Hopefully we can get to the cause of this accident so it doesn't happen again.
@finallyflying9534
2 жыл бұрын
@@cameronhoward99 oh wow, I didn't realize KIWA had a charlie pattern also. This Airspace is getting so busy. It's almost like we need more reliever airports. I flew down with my instructor to A39 to work on landings a few days ago when I was getting checked out in a new plane. The short flight down there was worth it to be the only airplane in the pattern.
@ChadDidNothingWrong
2 жыл бұрын
@@finallyflying9534 there's definitely not enough airports. This country's population has doubled, but the number of airports certainly hasnt. (In fact I think there might be fewer airports today has there was in the 90's; I know my town of 25,000 used to have two, but they are both closed now.
@FencerPTS
2 жыл бұрын
This is so tragic! A landing check item my instructor taught me on the base leg is to check final approach outward and towards the runway inward before the turn: "final clear, runway clear." This event definitely reinforces to me the need to clear this even in towered airports, and if requesting/performing short base to final (simulated engine out) to be extra situationally aware of the preceding traffic. Thanks for this vid, National Transportation Safety Blancolirio!
@seanmcerlean
2 жыл бұрын
Sincere condolences to the friends family and colleagues of the two in R22. So very sad indeed. Where i work at EGBO in the tower we have very strict procedures for fixed wing and heli ops. In effect standard 500 feet difference in circuit heights based on QFE and all heli ops are right hand with fixed wing standard left hand. You have to really watch the glide approach guys as they are often lower and closer in. Thanks for posting Juan.
@blancolirio
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! Big difference in ATC procedures overseas! Our ATC guys could learn a lot from visiting....
@seanmcerlean
2 жыл бұрын
@@blancolirio and vice versa Juan. Always been a problem with non standardisation across the world.
@boitoiful
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan for bringing this tragic accident information to us.
@carolinatrump245
2 жыл бұрын
Jake Day!!!!Not o savin????🤔🤔
@catherinenelson4162
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Juan. My best to the families of the two in the copter.
@SkyBaum
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the update Juan! When I was doing helicopter training @ a class Delta airport most times I would ask to go out of the airport environment for this very exact reason. Tragic loss of a Navy Veteran (Student) & the Flight Instructor in the R22.
@lowik1973
2 жыл бұрын
The pattern looks like an engine out practice pattern. The audio will tell for sure. Great video again Juan 👏 What a busy place, that is for sure associated some increased risks, but I imagine the student pilots grow skills in dealing with congested airspace.
@archstanton9206
2 жыл бұрын
Juan, when it comes to bringing factual information about these incidents you are heads and tails above the "media". Thanks for what you do.
@jackherstam7935
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Juan, we spoke on the phone last year regarding flight schools and ab-initio programs. I'm an instructor in the Phoenix area and flew over Chandler 10 minutes after this happened not knowing what had happened. It was certainly a sobering day. Things are busy out here in Phoenix. Chandler, Falcon, Scottsdale, Deer Valley, Goodyear, and Gateway all have multiple flight schools. You should see how jam packed the training areas are.
@W7LDT
2 жыл бұрын
That was my home field for instructing for many years. There were a lot of holes in the Swiss cheese that day.
@harpandharley
2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent report. You stick to the facts and leave the guesswork out of the equation. Such a terrible loss in Chandler.
@behindthen0thing525
2 жыл бұрын
You been to Chandler?
@RealRickCox
2 жыл бұрын
I *REALLY* appreciate your matter-of-fact reporting of accidents. Your style of presenting FACTS without the hyperbole or personal attacks is extremely helpful for me in learning from others mistakes. My hope is to learn from others so I don't repeat these mistakes.
@richardfox6703
2 жыл бұрын
Could be the flight instructor in the Archer pulled the power for a simulated engine out. Some instructors want you to turn immediately to the runway.
@TheBeingReal
2 жыл бұрын
Regardless, sure seems blood is on the instructors hands. Careless flying. Not going to look good on the students flying resume either.
@helidude3502
2 жыл бұрын
Richard The plane can stall with that maneuver also. Too many get fixated on landing on the runway. Watched a guy stuff his plane in the dirt because he tried a u-turn too low.
@MikeMike-er7kn
2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts as well. Simulated engine failure gone wrong....
@willdyer7680
2 жыл бұрын
I immediately thought that as well
@chrisg9627
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheBeingReal Normal practice where there is an air traffic control unit in operation is to request a PFL and receiving a clearance before commencing, this will doubtless form part of the investigation.
@alclark6124
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Browne, once again your cutting-edge objective insight leads to a fairly obvious conclusion, without overstepping, or second-guessing the investigators. Your videos have also given me the incentive to reenter school and switch gears from a Marine Science degree to an Aviation Safety degree. I've been involved with aviation for over 50 years and it's about time I get off my ass. I sit back and watch every one of your (non-Reno-related) videos and absorb what your analytical mind has to offer. Please keep up the great work! Also, if Dan ever gets over the taco incident (is there probable cause out on that yet?) he would do well to glean from your wisdom. Cheers, sir!
@nickinportland
2 жыл бұрын
Man Juan is good at keeping up with all these stories!
@johnblecker4206
2 жыл бұрын
Juan has to be the first person to release any plane crash and I have no idea how he does it.
@ED-es2qv
2 жыл бұрын
He’s number Juan!
@ARFFWorld
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnblecker4206 Not always the first to release, but always the best.
@nickinportland
2 жыл бұрын
@@ED-es2qv 😂
@nickinportland
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnblecker4206 maybe ATC tips him off 🧐
@johnjordan7084
2 жыл бұрын
Working on my commercial in 1976, taking off runway 17 at Hobby Airport Houston Texas in a Cessna 150, I had just rotated with a normal climb out speed and angle of attack on the center line. A small helicopter appeared out of nowhere heading straight toward me on a 350 heading right down the middle of same runway at near the same altitude. To this day I do not recall exactly what I did to avert a collision, it was a violent evasive maneuver at low altitude with instant stick and rudder action. I regrouped & continued my climb out on a 170 heading over Pearland , got my wits about me and called the tower to report the near miss, asking him 'what was that all about, a helicopter coming straight at me after being cleared for takeoff ' ! Many years have passed and I cannot recall our conversation exactly so I won't attempt to recreate here. This terrible mid air in Arizona just brought that all back to me.
@rickwilkinson1651
2 жыл бұрын
My flight schools was out of stellar Airpark just to the west. I spent alot of time out at chandler flying the patterns and then training at chandler air service, it is crazy how much development has happened since I got my license in 01.
@behindthen0thing525
2 жыл бұрын
I agree. Allot of houses where fields used to be
@fn0rd-f5o
2 жыл бұрын
i've flown in to stellar. i had no idea there was a flight school there. i just saw a bunch of campers and had to jump a fence to get out lol.
@behindthen0thing525
2 жыл бұрын
@@fn0rd-f5o stellar airpark used to be out in the middle of nowhere
@rickwilkinson1651
2 жыл бұрын
@Gary Stewart Angel Air use to be out there. They had a student squawk 7500 during their first solo and 2 f16s were scrambled from Luke to escort him in the traffic pattern and made national headlines. This was 2002 i believe.
@chandlerlabs2478
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan! I appreciate the review. I live in this Flight path area. Sad day!
@markbleavins4039
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like typical set up for a practice surprise engine out for final landing for archer, lost track of helo, or never knew where it was
@TobinTwinsHockey
2 жыл бұрын
Great minds think alike see my comment above
@gorgly123
2 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly.
@keithhoss4990
2 жыл бұрын
Why was the helo in the glide path of the runway?
@gorgly123
2 жыл бұрын
@@keithhoss4990 It appears to me it happened on the base leg. The helicopter was flying lower and the low wing piper made a "short approach" maybe a simulated engine failure and turned toward the runway (base leg) sooner and overflew the path of the helicopter.
@jackielinde7568
2 жыл бұрын
@@keithhoss4990 It looked like the helicopter was to the side of the runway, well within the defined traffic pattern for the helicopter. I'd like to see what recommendations the NTSB has after they finished their report.
@Xpyburnt_ndz
2 жыл бұрын
Juan is the best! So sad this happened...will be interesting to hear what ATC did in all of this.
@jackielinde7568
2 жыл бұрын
Blancilirio - Yeah, if it's been 10 years or more since you've last been to any part of the valley, it has changed dramatically. I've lived through the change, and I'm still amazed at what I find has changed.
@RaysDad
2 жыл бұрын
A lot of Californians who want to escape the rat race are moving to Arizona, Nevada and Utah...and bringing the rat race with them!
@jackielinde7568
2 жыл бұрын
@@RaysDad Yeah, but I don't think that has any impact on the accident. And California isn't the only state that Arizona is getting a migration influx.
@nathangreer8219
2 жыл бұрын
This is very similar to my field, Caldwell, ID. Rotorcraft use a pattern to the South, and fixed wing use a right traffic pattern to the North. There is no tower and we really have to keep our eyes open for those Robinsons. A portion of our taxiway forms part of the rotor pattern.
@catherinenelson4162
2 жыл бұрын
That sounds like a dangerous setup.
@rogerpenske2411
2 жыл бұрын
Yes the Phoenix Valley has changed a lot, brownie! My parents retired out to Sun City grand in surprise, about 10 miles due north from Luke Air Force Base. It was all citrus orchard. Now the only citrus is in the old folks backyards
@josephroberts6865
2 жыл бұрын
Juan, great detailed report, but your observation of what you believe happened is absolutely spot on. Great insight into this tragedy.
@myusername630
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Juan, been watching you from the beginning whenever that was. No one I have heard so far on these contraptions can say the things you can at least pertaining to aviation. I am 78 and was fortunate enough to join SAC and even more fortunate at the ripe old age of 18 to be one of the ground crew of the new B52H 60001 and some of its brothers and sisters. I have since learned that those Buff's are going to long outlive me by 19 years. They are now getting brand new engines replacing the tired ole TF33P7 for four new royalty engines. Anyway, having ground crewed the Buff's I can respect an airport rat that dreamed of getting off the ground. Up until I joined the highest I had ever been off the ground was climbing up the ladder of a B47 for heavy bomber aircraft. Even at this age I can still remember my instructor teaching me how to start a J47 continually hot start engine. He scared us for days about how they would hot start and hang at 47 percent and the flames will reach back to the tail. But not to worry, there will be the ground crew with a fire bottle to put it out. I was first and the instructor was at my knee talking me through this and sure enough it hung and he said to tell the ground crew to fire the bottle. I said on the head set that he can't hear me so the instructor said here yell at him through this and handed me a dirty looking funnel thing and kept saying to get closer. Finally I find myself staring down the piss tube that was wrapped around my mouth. Strange, but that engine rotated right up to idle. Your not quite that old but you have enough days behind you to be an airframe/engine guy and that is a level of training alone that is amazing BUT then you did the smart thing and joined the air force that has a good selection of equipment that must have looked like to you one of those candy stores that were on the way to school. I say all that after having lived on this earth for 28,550 days your wisdom in these matters comes from long years, months of doing what you talk about. But...would you please get a bigger cursor pointer so I don't get screen sickness. I also know you know how to safety wire.
@markknister6272
2 жыл бұрын
So sad. MUCH more than we get from local news…. Thank you!
@jamesbillington3308
2 жыл бұрын
Great job, Juan, and thanks for taking the time for these great videos. You've got a good thing going , hope you continue. Sadly no shortage of air crashes to report on.
@SmittySmithsonite
2 жыл бұрын
R.I.P. pilot and student. Crappy situation all around, but at the very least the other party survived. Thanks for the heads up. Exactly what I figured had happened based on what my dad told me from watching the news. I'm just blown away at that whole area today! I used to ride my motorcycle down E. Ocotillo and E. Queen Creek roads occasionally 22 years ago - there was nothing there! Even while living there I noticed the city growing by leaps and bounds. By the time I left in '01, there was a whole new section of highway just about completed (loop 101 by Deer Valley Rd.). When I got there in '99 they had just started clearing for it. Now that entire area is all houses, too! Never saw a place grow so fast in my life! No wonder - the weather is absolutely PERFECT.
@rexriver1
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the update.
@Vlodek9
2 жыл бұрын
I fly out of KCHD, it is my home airport. I am NOT what you would call and "experienced" pilot (150hrs or over the last 3 yrs). So, I am NOT making a judgment about anyone or anything in this comment regarding the accident on Oct 1. That is NOT my intention. I'm just sharing my story. I got my PPL at KTUS class C airport which can be busy with commercial, GA, and military traffic throughout most of the day. One of the reasons I went to KTUS for my PPL is because it is a Class C airport, so I can dive in and learn the complexity of ATC communications and procedures. This training at KTUS, made flight and ATC operations at KCHD seem like grade school. However, over the years, I have noticed that KCHD is getting much busier. Today we have a Hot Zone at taxi way N and RW22R that did not exist a year or so ago. The Fixed Wing Pattern altitude was raised by 200~300 feet at about the same time. And good luck getting a hanger. There is a 4 year (or so) waiting list. Point is, KCHD is way busier then ever before and its not just due to a pilot shortage. Heck, turn on your Foreflight with ADSB In at 0700-0800 AZ time and see how many aircraft are around that airport on a daily bases. Now to my story/observation. Throughout the last 2~3 years when I did/do go practice and fly (lot of pattern work), I noticed an increase of requests from ATC to pilots training landing procedures to shorten their patter/downwind so as to accommodate the aircraft coming in behind them or direct or long base. I don't think its do to lack of patience or laziness, its just that its so busy at times. Often, pilots have difficulty even jumping in on the coms to calling ATC with status or request. Its like there is a line just to talk to ATC. Finally, AZ is a big desert. Why city planners allow to cram so many subdivisions in and around KCHD AND KSDL is beyond me. Maybe its my lack of experience, but honestly if I got an engine out during take off and already airborne over the end of the runways (especially 4L and 4R), I don't think I could land the aircraft without hitting some sort of structure/building. Having said all of that, I love KCHD. It has all the accommodations with a small community feel, extremely friendly . Highly recommend it but if you are new or are in training, you may want to ask your instructor to do pattern work over another airport like even Mesa Gateway with really big runways. I think Mesa Gateway is less busier then KCHD at some times of the day.
@johnmajane3731
2 жыл бұрын
Similar accident at KFDK years ago. Contract tower (With questionable skilled controllers) a Cirrus hit an R44 . Three died in the R44, the Cirrus came down under the chute. Now they keep the helicopters on the other side of the runway.
@cameronhoward99
2 жыл бұрын
I'm a flight instructor at the neighbor airport to CHD (IWA). We're always busy over there too. Recently we've been getting our landing clearance when there's still 4 or 5 aircraft ahead of us on the downwind. As you described, it can be really hard to keep track of other aircraft and requires all your attention as an instructor. Thank goodness for ADS-B. Also as you mentioned flight training at our flight school (ATP) is at prepandemic levels or even higher. I suppose that's good news for the aviation world and hopefully means I can get to an airline sooner. With that higher volume of planes out flying, see and avoid gentleman.
@nereanim
2 жыл бұрын
Also the last pattern of the archer looks like a simulated engine out practice which is a 180 degrees power off precision touchdown, a common maneuver required to obtain a commercial pilot license.
@frankfarrelly5215
2 жыл бұрын
Hello Juan been following your channel, recent subscriber and first comment. You bring a transparent view of aviation incidents/accidents . As a pilot for a long time and currently in technical operations , appreciate your viewpoints. Safe travels ✈️
@jonclassical2024
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this information...I think if I was going to do training again...its worth going to a field much less busy, like north west Texas...Lubbock is beautiful in winter! 30 years ago CHD was a much less busy place......not to mention how PHX has grown....so sad for the helio flyers...RIP.
@TrondBrgeKrokli
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for explaining the details for us, your work is very good (dare I say excellent). I can only express my sadness for the loss of life in what should have been a good experience learning how to become an aviator. My only hope is that better communication and better safety practice can be achieved from this, so the helicopter pilot and student did not die in vain.
@chuckeberth4370
2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent reporting of this accident. Prayers to the deceased family's.
@marketshare5273
2 жыл бұрын
That was quick that’s my homebase just retired from City Of Chandler September 10. Been watching those choppers five days a week when I’m eating my lunch wondering if we’re gonna have a mid air collision.
@davidgiles5030
2 жыл бұрын
A few years ago I was on a flight in a rented 172. Another 172 at the wrong altitude crossed in front of me at exactly the same altitude. We missed by 1/2 a second. It was that close. He was there and gone. I didn't have any time to be scared. Needless to say I didn't get his registration number or I would have reported him to Transport Canada. I was westbound and he southbound. There should have been a 1000 feet of separation. When I got home I rechecked the air regs, just to be sure I hadn't screwed up. Some days all the good karma you have acquired gets used up in one moment.
@davidjma7226
2 жыл бұрын
I had an airprox in a 737 going Melbourne to Brisbane in seat 1A. At 27,000' over Sydney I saw a BA 747 coming up at us - I just saw a flash of tail markings about 200m climbing out and crossing our path. Pretty damn close! Became an official airprox report but no media were made aware.
@tomriley5790
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidjma7226 geez that's scary! I thought that sort of thing was relegated to the days before TCAS, BA too... did they get to the bottom of it?
@davidjma7226
2 жыл бұрын
@@tomriley5790 I had a mate who worked in the airprox department and I told him. They were certainly aware of it - a collision over Sydney between a 747 and a 737 would have been a huge drama. He wouldn't discuss it further and I didn't follow it up. It will be on record was mid 2000's
@StarFrog
2 жыл бұрын
Could of never asked for a greater analysis! I'm sure my instructor will be talking about this in the next class.
@a-spears
2 жыл бұрын
Its incredible how many miniscule variables could have gotten around this incident, but unfortunately these events happen.
@huntercluff219
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. It helped me get an idea of what happened. My friend Michael was one of the pilots in the helicopter. It's been a rough week and coming to grasp that he's gone. He left behind a wife and a daughter who will be 1 years old in another week.
@tomriley5790
2 жыл бұрын
Sorry for your loss.
@Docinaplane
2 жыл бұрын
Years ago flying into Tamiami Airport in Florida my flight instructor and I were on a close left base to land when directly ahead of was another plane on a close right base heading for the same spot! Vey busy and risky airport. We had flown there from X60. It was my first week of training.
@phoenixdoglover9403
2 жыл бұрын
I live close to both Mesa Falcon Field and Chandler Muni. Both are busy with training 7 days a week, weather permitting. I've been watching on FlightWare and listening to LiveATC for both of these fields over the past few months. The whole east valley is busy, and with the overhead Class B space, the training is confined even when away from the patterns. Falcon Field is by far the busier one. This morning at one point there were three aircraft doing touch and goes in the same pattern with spacing on one runway, while the other runway was used for normal landings and takeoffs. I'm considering getting my private pilots license, but the current activity level scares me a bit.
@vk2ig
2 жыл бұрын
I'm intrigued as to whether the current demand for pilot training is pushing up the prices demanded by flight schools? If so, would it be better to wait until this level of demand cools off a bit?
@phoenixdoglover9403
2 жыл бұрын
@@vk2ig Prices in Arizona don't seem to be rising much, but if they do, I don't expect them to decline later. I think the current situation of higher pilot demand will last at least two more years, and by then higher prices will be the new normal. Seize the day!
@jaredcrub9567
2 жыл бұрын
I live less than a mile from chandler airport, and I saw the smoke from the helicopter burning, and told my parents there was a crash at the airport, another time I wished I was wrong
@timmotel5804
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this information. I've flown out of Chandler many times since student time in 1994.
@dougspindler4947
2 жыл бұрын
Juan is good at keeping up with all these stories, thank you.
@archermayo9055
2 жыл бұрын
You can easily make your cursor/pointer larger by going into computer settings. Makes it much easier to see where you’re pointing on the screen. Thanks for the effort you put into this channel.
@decathelondave9340
2 жыл бұрын
Great job, great detail, fun to see and hear you at reno. this year.
@bw162
2 жыл бұрын
I am amazed that the FAA would operate two right hand traffic patterns to essentially the same runway (taxiway and 4R). I will lay odds there was an instructor in the plane that elected in this T&G circuit to do a simulated engine failure prompting the student to turn early to base and descend.
@davemac222
2 жыл бұрын
Ya but given the close pattern on the rotors, you would think the airport would not allow an altered early to base pattern like this and the instructors would know that?
@christinepreston48
2 жыл бұрын
It's like in Kenya: midnight, one car on a road to Nairobi and it manages to collide with an elephant!
@tomriley5790
2 жыл бұрын
Not so rare having elephants on that road though....
@OldDesertLizard
2 жыл бұрын
Even us locals can’t help but say “Queen Cweek Road”. 😎
@behindthen0thing525
2 жыл бұрын
It's creek
@mtbevins
2 жыл бұрын
I have had almost the same thing happen to me at a neighboring airport across the valley at Glendale Municipal. I was doing touch and go landings in my Cessna 150 on RW 1. Ahead of me in the pattern was one of these flight schools Piper Archer. The archer also was doing touch and go landings. The tower at Glendale asked the archer to tighten up his pattern as his down wind was almost half a mile from the runway. I was flying my normal pattern and distance which put the archer much further out than I was. Even though the tower had requested the archer to tighten up his pattern he did not. He called for a short approach and it was granted. I lost sight of the archer by mid field. Uncomfortable with the loss of the other traffic I climbed 200 above traffic pattern altitude scanning for him. I was about to call the tower asking for a position of the archer when I was abeam the numbers and wheee I would normally start to defend ….when the archer passed below me at about where I would have been if I had been at TPA. His short approach and wider pattern put us on a collision course. I am not even sure the tower knew how close we had come and wonder if the archer ever saw me. I think a factor might have been the student did not understand English well as his radio calls were hard to understand. He may have not known he was creating a hazard and not I understood the towers request to tighten up his pattern.
@emergencylowmaneuvering7350
2 жыл бұрын
That was me. When I was told to tighten up my pants, thats what I did. Suddenly i passed under that dumb C150. My name is Som Ting Wong..
@mtbevins
2 жыл бұрын
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 lol
@mikeryan6277
2 жыл бұрын
Not trying to be critical but when you climbed 200 above TPA without speaking to ATC you may have created a bit of a Hazard yourself.
@mtbevins
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikeryan6277 that is possible but had I stayed at TPA we would not be having this conversation. ATC has no obligation to maintain separation even in their class delta airspace for VFR traffic. It is up to the pilots to maintain separation and that is exactly what I was doing. My spide sense was going off.
@gregoueilhe1382
2 жыл бұрын
Great flying on your part.
@bettigio
2 жыл бұрын
Sad to hear. I did my flight training at Chandler back in 1998. It was busy back then, I can only imagine how it is today.
@FarkyDave
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, Juan. Thanks for your detail oriented presentation.
@dgax65
2 жыл бұрын
It's wild how much the community of Chandler has encroached on what used to be a quiet little airport out in the desert. Back in the late '70s my dad kept his Ercoupe at Chandler Field. The field was mostly just AG aircraft. There wasn't much around back then.
@Urbicide
2 жыл бұрын
People move next door to an airport or railroad tracks, & then they will eventually complain about the noise.
@spurgear4
2 жыл бұрын
@@Urbicide we have people complaining about the smell of a pig farm. The farm was here forever but so called developers built subdivisions right next to it
@Mike-01234
2 жыл бұрын
This is the problem with lot of airports states need to pass laws which requires a buffer zone around them homes can't be built. We have a state law that requires a buffer zone around outdoor shooting ranges. There was one that a builder wanted to build homes on land inside the buffer. There was so much of an uproar about moving the range the state had to use emanate domain to buy the land now the state who owns the shooting range also owns the land. It was the only time I ever seen a home builder lose a fight they wanted to move the shooting range 50 miles north of the city.
@FlightSimulatorXATC
2 жыл бұрын
Juan - I work for one of the busy flight schools in the area and we just got a message from our boss stating that “power off approaches must no longer be asked for (nor will they be granted any longer) with helicopters in the pattern at any of the East Valley area airports (to include KSDL, KFFZ, KCHD and KIWA) due to the incident. This seems pretty damning to me; most likely the aircraft was doing a short approach and lost SA.
@pixiejisim5886
2 жыл бұрын
I work under the Louisville practice area and i haven't noticed any extra planes. Oh right good weather. ;~)
@suerussell4476
2 жыл бұрын
Dear Juan. 50 years today my father was killed in a GA collision as a passenger in a 152. I think he was so excited to fly that he ignored trouble signs about the pilot that were known before. Since then I flew GA once but would never do it again. I’m sticking with commercial from now on. Two many pilot unknowns. There’s too many unqualified pilots and someone like or my dad would never know the difference.
@suerussell4476
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for service you provide. Maybe if dad had heard it he might have lived a long life. Instead he died at 51. Thank you for pointing out the knuckle heads.
@petemitchel7256
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Juan, a National Resource, for giving us a clear picture.
@182QKFTW
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like a possible simulated engine failure in the Archer
@bw162
2 жыл бұрын
Posted the same thought before I read yours. About the only explanation for the only early turn to base among all the circuits. If so, can’t imagine what that instructor is going through knowing 2 died.
@davidgapp1457
2 жыл бұрын
You wouldn't do this without contacting the tower for the option. There is always the slight possibility it was an actual emergency of course.
@homomorphic
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, when I took my flight training it wasn't legal to do simulated engine failures at towered airports in congested traffic. We always went to an untowered low traffic airport for such practice. It would still be a surprise for the student, but wouldn't risk the safety of other traffic if the student didn't handle it well (they are, after all, students).
@ARFFWorld
2 жыл бұрын
@@homomorphic I agree with you, that is not the time or place to risk any simulated failures.
@lyleparadise2764
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I was thinking, ....however these are rarely done at controlled airfields without the towers approval. The CFI should request a "tight pattern" before attempting such a manuever.
@denault3985
2 жыл бұрын
So sad about the loss of the R22 pilots.
@geofiggy
2 жыл бұрын
Not another JB. This is getting scary. We had a small aircraft dragging a "Please Marry Me" banner that crashed in Quebec, Canada just two days ago. Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏼🖖🏼
@TheBeingReal
2 жыл бұрын
Bad omen for the guy who paid for the sign. lol
@scottfranco1962
2 жыл бұрын
As hard as it is to imagine being in an accident, I think it would be far worse to know there were others that didn't make it involved. That has to be a terrible weight.
@jrcolmena
2 жыл бұрын
Student pilot here, so please excuse if I'm missing something obvious. Given than I fly a slow cub my patterns tend to be tighter than the pipers/cessnas in my field (this is by my instructors indications, he says that I have to be close to the runway in case of losing an engine) seems that an airport layout/process where just a too tight pattern can cause a collision has something more going on than a pilot just not following the standard pattern
@steveturner3999
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for keeping it real for the rest of us Juan. Great job as always. R.I.P. to the lost souls and may their families find peace.
@randalljames1
2 жыл бұрын
Traffic all over the Valley is stupid now... We owned the Left Seat eateries at a number of the muni airports.. Used to be a great area to train in.. Now it is just too busy...
@mrackerm5879
2 жыл бұрын
Pilot shortage - exacerbated by major airlines forcing pilots to take early retirement less than a year ago, now suddenly they need pilots. Who could have seen this coming?
@tomcoryell
2 жыл бұрын
@@KathleenMcCormickLCSWMPH Yeah don’t mandate vaccines so in the event one of these crash victims had survived no ICU space would be available and they would die anyway.
@kenbeals4462
2 жыл бұрын
@@tomcoryell Check the data. Israel, the most vaccinated country on earth, has a skyrocketing serious infection and death rate. India has cut their infection rate to almost zero in several states with a handful of cheap and available medicines administered at home. The main stream medical community is committing malpractice on a global scale. Not to mention the tens of thousands of adverse reactions (and deaths) shown in the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) database. The "vaccines" are a complete failure.
@Markle2k
2 жыл бұрын
The pilot shortage already existed several years ago. But last year, they suddenly had no destinations and no revenue. The main job pilots had were moving cargo and flying ghost flights so that the airlines wouldn't lose their slots. The use it or lose it rules didn't anticipate a pandemic.
@tomcoryell
2 жыл бұрын
@@kenbeals4462 Russian Trolls are in the house tonight! Sing this to the tune if “Party Rock Anthem”.
@davidoolsen
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your update.
@timothypirnat3754
2 жыл бұрын
So very sad Juan. Thank you for your efforts to make GA safer. I don't fly privately, and use the airlines for travel. But for those who do fly for travel and recreation, maximum safety should be rule number one.
@MrRockymountainking
2 жыл бұрын
Juan you are so Awsome at this.
@donc9751
2 жыл бұрын
Wow Juan! What an outstanding job you do! Your high level of understanding and explaining these (to me, a non pilot but fairly knowledgeable aviation buff with some flight instruction in my past) highly complex due to the amount of traffic, your easy explanation and use of diagrams really helps me get a much better mental picture and understanding of the layers upon layers of pattern requirements at these busy training centers! Thank you Juan! Very odd that on the 1 deviation of the planes established T & G patterns, and that being the 1 that put his plane in contact with the Helicopters rotor, why a smaller and maybe lower patern then for the plane? That's what strikes me as pivitol info here. Did the pilot and his instructor say let's call it a day just set it down quick and even if so that would have had to have been cleared thru the tower ATC so there wouldn't be a conflict.
@bombsaway6340
2 жыл бұрын
Went to pilot training at Williams AFB. The VOR on the field was called Chandler. Common occurrence for general aviation aircraft to bust into our airspace thinking they were flying into Chandler Muni. Would get rather sporting when that happened.
@jcheck6
2 жыл бұрын
Willie was the best!
@grahaml3449
2 жыл бұрын
A lot of foreign students in the East Valley. Could you tell from the audio if that might have been a factor here? I flew a fair amount in that area before the schools got going and busy, and I still listen to the tower radios at times. It's frightening how many of the students have serious English deficiencies.
@richb313
2 жыл бұрын
What it shows me is that just understanding the patterns shows it's a good thing I am not a pilot but at least there is someone who attempts to pass on undecipherable knowledge.
@shopart1488
2 жыл бұрын
I never liked the idea having choppers and fixed wing at the same airport. It’s tends to be a scary situation. I know it has to be but still scary. And I love both types of aircraft and have flown in both.
@tomcoryell
2 жыл бұрын
This!
@myusername630
2 жыл бұрын
I strongly feel the same. If it were just fixed wing only there is so much that can go wrong like wingover and wing under aircraft approaching at same time. Just saying KISS
@nashguy207
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all you do to keep us informed Juan!!
@icare7151
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan. You are a National treasure and asset.
@debi909
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Blessings Everyone ~~
@geraldscott4302
2 жыл бұрын
I got my pilots license at what was Chandler Municipal Airport back in 1981. Back then it was a VERY small uncontrolled airport. I fly out of what is now known as Chandler Regional Airport, and have a Cessna 172 hangered there. You are right about it being a very congested airport. There is, IMO, more traffic than it can safely handle. The airport cannot be expanded, as there is development all around it. Decades ago people were concerned about it becoming a commercial airport, and did not want larger aircraft operation out of there. So zoning restrictions were put into place to prevent the airport from getting any bigger. No jet traffic is allowed there. However, there is another large airport very close by, known as Williams Gateway, which used to be Williams AFB before President Clinton shut it down back in 1993. Since then development in the area has been totally out of control. You think air traffic is congested, just try driving on the roads in that area. There has been an issue between fixed wing pilots and Quantum Helicopters for a long time. They are known by most fixed wing pilots as "that helicopter place" Obviously it has not been determined exactly what happened yet, and I am sorry to hear that two people were killed. But I also don't like those helicopters being there, there has been a lot of close calls involving them. There are many other locations nearby suitable for their operations that would not present a danger to other aircraft. Fixed wing aircraft were there first, and being a fixed wing pilot, I do have a certain amount of animosity toward helicopters in general. While many helicopter pilots are very professional, a lot of them are not. I have seen helicopter pilots behaving in a reckless manner too many times. A few years ago a couple of local news helicopters crashed into each other because they were flying too close together. There were no survivors. And worse yet, the wreckage barely missed coming down in a densely populated residential area. Apparently neither one of the pilots realized how close together they were until it was to late. I would like to see helicopters gone from Chandler Regional Airport.
@jcheck6
2 жыл бұрын
Where could the helos go Gerald? Coolidge is probably too far away and Eloy is busy with jump a/c.
@geraldscott4302
2 жыл бұрын
@@jcheck6 How about Casa Grande?
@matthewgroff433
2 жыл бұрын
MY question is: With all of the technological advances in aviation technology such as: terrain avoidance, weather radar, etc. You mean to tell me, WE as humans cannot come up with a system to determine how close or far apart 2 or more aircraft are to one another and if they are on a collision course and issue an alert in both aircraft that are near each other and the nearest ATC and then put that system In ALL Aircraft? Let me guess, It is too Expensive and too Heavy!! Famous last words of the Aviation and Airline Industries when Safety Recommendations are issued from an Accident Investigation. How much is a Human Life Worth? Great Job Juan bringing the information on these incidents and keeping us informed! Keep up the great work!
@jimblack5153
2 жыл бұрын
As always...Juan is on top of stuff!
@alanmorris7634
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video and my condolences to the helicopter crew.
@briggsahoy1
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the report.
@nancychace8619
2 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear of this. Funny, I just stumbled onto this quote this a.m. - "Time flies over us, but leaves its shadow behind." - Nathaniel Hawthorne Condolences. RIP.
@fiero880
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the Archer CFI initiated a simulated engine failure for student to see if he could make the runway. That would explain that tight pattern turn.
@turnbank3492
2 жыл бұрын
Sad stuff. Let me quess the person in that steerman walked away. Thanks for all your work again
@brucemiller8109
2 жыл бұрын
Just Tragic.... it can be VERY BUSY and STRESSFUL in the Pattern.
@sarahalbers5555
2 жыл бұрын
Boy, this is ugly. Sincere condolences to the family and friends of those 2 pilots. Yet another tragic accident.
@VictoryAviation
2 жыл бұрын
That last pattern by the archer looks like a classic power off 180 type maneuver. I'll be interested to see if they actually advised any such type maneuver before executing it.
@VictoryAviation
2 жыл бұрын
@@SusanKay- Just because the recording is sub par doesn’t mean the actual transmissions were as well. A lot of Live ATC recordings aren’t very good because of the recording equipment.
@MrTheblackbaron
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly my thoughts as well. Last landing of the the day: a glide in..
@wpw4508
2 жыл бұрын
Looks like the Piper was on their 9th touch and go - 3 left pattern, 6 right (and short approach on the crash) . Back at busy Palo Alto 20 years ago, my batteries would run out after 5 or 6 touch and goes, so maybe the Piper student was tired? Stil, shout-out to helicopter pilots. My ASEL designated examiner was a helicopter geek, and, I swear, when I made my short field landing at Livermore, he said, and I quote, for those who may be listening, "Whoo!'.
@budbrady3289
2 жыл бұрын
Outstanding analysis! Thank you
@flybyairplane3528
2 жыл бұрын
JUAN, HELLO,,,,,Thanks for this update at CHANDLER AIRPORT. AZ, sad for loss of lives RIP & condolances to families involved 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@nereanim
2 жыл бұрын
Flew into KCHD a few times and it's a ZOO!!! Well Casa Grande and Akh Chin also... ADS-B in reveals unbelievable small aircraft traffic.
@stewartthompson72
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, he shortened the the pattern quite a bit. A Tragic loss of life.
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