The reveal of Elliot’s true relationship with his father was one of the biggest gut punches I’ve experienced in TV. And the brilliant thing is, all the clues were there the whole time, I just chose to ignore them.
@luluna5228
Жыл бұрын
The “clues” didn’t give you any information to actually predict it , then they use a random plot device they threw out lmaoo
@skyman246vids4
Жыл бұрын
@@luluna5228what?
@alfredgarcia6844
10 ай бұрын
@@luluna5228Wdym?
@fictionnerd78
6 ай бұрын
@@luluna5228Wdym?
@ajiththomas2465
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, one of the most interesting and best pieces of writing advice in regards to endings that I heard was said by James Patterson. He said that when he was writing a novel, he would try to come up with like a few dozen to 50 endings for the story, ranging from the completely predictable to the unpredictable. Once he had all those options, he would choose an ending somewhere in the middle, which wasn't predictable but wasn't too unpredictable and out of nowhere and he would basically sort of rewrite the story to fit the chosen ending. I always liked it because how it recommended both the hard work ethic required for the craft of writing along with the idea of avoiding being predictable. I think it's a pretty dope piece of writing advice.
@ESALTEREGO
2 жыл бұрын
Thats a basic technique but ok
@_laurenolo_
2 жыл бұрын
@@ESALTEREGO man you must be fun at parties, huh
@ESALTEREGO
2 жыл бұрын
@@_laurenolo_ yep, any objections?
@infinitiyash3440
2 жыл бұрын
@@ESALTEREGO Yes.
@jasonblundelldobebussing
2 жыл бұрын
@@ESALTEREGO , разъебал, брат. А на 'меликанцев не смотри ауф ☝😔
@lorrainecasey749
2 жыл бұрын
In the pilot episode Elliot says”scratches the part of my mind that won’t allow good to exist without condition” then said to Mr Robot how he loved his trips to the city with his dad but hated going home(a payment required?)all the clues were there from the start 👍🏼
@aneirys
2 жыл бұрын
I feel that most dystopian YA book writers have the gardening approach. Books like the Maze Runner, Divergent, the chaos walking series, etc, they occasionally have a good first book, with an engaging story and an interesting world to discover. But once you reach to that last book, where is all pure chaos and nothing makes any sense, you realize that the writers have a cool concept but didn’t plan a cohesive ending for their story. Also another series that had an amazing ending, because every season was planned before filming, was Dark, that show was top tier for me, along side Mr. Robot. Btw, Sorry for any misspellings or grammar error, english is not my first language.
@tom-tom2905
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for treating Mr. Robot with the respect it deserves
@EddyTheMartian
2 жыл бұрын
Great use of Mr. Robot, one of the best TV endings ever, and one of the best shows ever in general. Love the insane twists and recontextualizatoins. I wonder which shows and endings you think are the best. For me The Shield, Mr. Robot, The Americans and The Sopranos have the best ending, though that may change cause I've gone back on finales before, like Breaking Bad's which is still great but felt too neat and tidy.
@tenzinmutuzaki8228
2 жыл бұрын
The Shield’s ending was fucking crazy. A lot of stories fail in that they’re consequence-averse. That episode, however, was a gut punch.
@699Kyle699
2 жыл бұрын
Mr.Robot is peak television
@robertbeattie2274
Жыл бұрын
It seems to me that we writers tend to anchor on some advice. In the late 1960s I read Asimov’s advice that for writing fiction, he never put fingers to typewriter keys until he had his story's ending completely thought out. About that same time, I read Slaughterhouse Five. In it, author Vonnegut explained that he wrote his novel’s outline on the back of a long roll of wallpaper. I anchored on that. Thus, always in fiction, and where possible when writing nonfiction, I think out the end of my story, then create some version of an outline (some much more detailed than others) to reference, before putting fingers to keyboard. Now an old man, I’ve written about twenty-million words for others following those notions. Robert Beattie, New York Times bestselling author
@JoshuaS-ur7jm
2 жыл бұрын
Thank god I thought you might say something bad about mr robot (cus it has quite a bit of flaws despite it being one of my favorite shows) but then I saw it was up against Gossip Girl and I had a sigh of relief lmao
@wiiink
Жыл бұрын
I feel like your point is made really well comparing Avatar the Last Airbender to The Legend of Korra. With ATLA everyone knew it would end in a showdown with the firelord and everything else was just how they would prepare for it and get to that point. When they made Korra they didn't know they would get another season so they just had a villain per season which made everything feel disjointed in comparison to its predecessor.
@Linny95
2 жыл бұрын
AoT is another exampple of amazing storytelling from having the writer know the ending but also flexible enough to re-write based on the journey to the finish line.
@heisenberg3206
2 жыл бұрын
aot has amazing storytelling? dont make me laugh
@Linny95
2 жыл бұрын
@@heisenberg3206 dont worry im laughing at you
@heisenberg3206
2 жыл бұрын
@@Linny95 yea any normie who says aot has great storytelling would laugh for no reason
@Linny95
2 жыл бұрын
@@heisenberg3206 I'm not laughing for no reason
@heisenberg3206
2 жыл бұрын
@@Linny95 that's what normies says
@houseonjupiter
2 жыл бұрын
When I write, I always make several drafts. But the first thing I do is make a note of the most important situations of the plot. A beginning, middle, and end. I always think of the ending in advance, but not so strictly that I cannot make any changes to the flow or creativity of the story if I so wish. It really works out well for me. Because my first book I ever wrote (at age 15, so bear with me) was something that I wrote when I woke up in the middle of the night and just came up with an idea. I hadn't planned out a proper ending in advance, and as a result, the ending felt a little random. Now I use this formula where I think of major points and the ending in advance, but leave enough room for creative changes and things I can add along the way. It really makes me enjoy writing more, because I feel like I am actually going somewhere when I write as opposed to just winging it.
@MatthewCobalt
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, thanks for pointing out that My story might not ever have an ending. Now I might actually drop my passion project, as it went through over 1000 years of in-story development and an ending wasn’t even on the cards, though the themes were explored in great depth. Now I will never complete it.
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe try thinking of one
@MatthewCobalt
2 жыл бұрын
@@MacabreStorytelling Considering that the founding premise was a guy stumbling into the infinite multiverse at 18 and falling ass backwards from death to a version of immortality at 38/58, I’d say that it’s like trying to fit tungsten cube into a steel peg hole.
@thatRyzzle
2 жыл бұрын
The STFU a few minutes in really got me! 😂
@john80944
2 жыл бұрын
Make plans, or at least one coherent plan. It's a good habit you can have even if you don't need to write a multiple-seasons-show. You can abandon you plan if you got a better one. But zero plans will be the worst scenario you can get yourself in to.
@RETROACTIVETV
2 жыл бұрын
Breaking Bad might be the only objection to the rule, but they at least had a built in ending that played out all the write notes. Mr Robot the opposite but just as good. Dexter on the other hand...
@thebobbrom7176
5 ай бұрын
"You can't go back an edit shit to make it all fit together" George Lucas... Watch me...
@ruukaoz
2 жыл бұрын
also its completely fine to be a gardener if you are working on a standalone movie. By the time you start shooting, you'll have the ending pretty much.
@SweatiestDegree
2 жыл бұрын
I'm not a writer (need to learn a lot of I'm ever getting my graphic novel done) but I feel like the problem with most shows is they don't want to end it if it's successful so they rethink or drag the story on to make it last longer. some people might hate me for what I'm about so say but anime has (mostly) terrible writing, you'll never convince me that Naruto is such a deep and rich story that it needed 720 episodes to be told. One thing that would drastically improve the quality of writing is letting go of the milking of franchises and just coming up with amazing stories
@camille5937
2 жыл бұрын
Did I watch all 4 seasons of Mr Robot in order to watch this video ? Well...
@u3u_o3o
2 жыл бұрын
king dropped another banger!!!!!!
@upd0g1
2 жыл бұрын
I went and watched the entirety of Mr. Robot just so I could watch this video. MAKE MORE VIDS BRO 😎 we knead it…..pls
@kat8559
2 жыл бұрын
May I recommend julia cudney? I think she's talked about how the identity of gossip girl became much less of a focus as the show went on, to the point where actually "solving" gossip girl's identity was completely out of place. Not to mention that apparently they started the show intending gg to be Eric, but fans guessed it, so they changed gg's identity? I don't remember if it was ever solved in the books, i stopped reading them at some point the show wrote this insane plot about gossip girl just being a laptop anyone could write on, and the laptop changes hands multiple times, so it's like, who knows and who cares. The drama became about the character relationships imo, mainly chuck and blair. Did you make a gossip girl video? I feel like you did but I'll have to check and rewatch.
@strawberrylotlizard
2 жыл бұрын
I don't write books or movies, just for DnD but I created my own world and I planned out the initial first adventure and recently finished the ending. After that I become a gardener as anything can happen BUT my ending will happen whether my players are there for it or not
Okay, I like your videos, but I fucking loved How I Met Your Mother. Now I know I may be alone here, but remember, not all stories are for everyone. Some will love what others hate, and some will hate what others love. Think about it like cereal. You just know there is someone out there who loves Bran Flakes even though I'm sure there are plenty of people that hate them. No matter the case, they are still selling them. So they have an audience somewhere.
@bigdaddychacha
Жыл бұрын
Apparently an unpopular opinion around here, but I thought season 1 of Mr. Robot was a masterpiece, but everything that followed it totally lost the plot, with a few moments of brilliance scattered in here and there. Somebody else who I had introduced it to on the strength of the first season alone had a similar take, independently. Never saw Gossip Girl.
@kevinarteaga3824
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with your point, definitely, no notes, 100% agree. But... I just couldn't get into Mr. Robot. I don't mean to be a contrarian, but the junk, pop-psychology that the show hinges it's premise on just makes me agitated. I dunno... Split-personalities? Repressed memories? It all just feels so over-used and even a bit lazy. Also, I might be the only person on Earth that doesn't like Remi Malek?
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
I'd give it another go if you can. While the first season does lean into more of the "meme-y" vibe what it comes to anarchy and rebelling against society, as the show goes on, it ends up subverting this, as it shows there are unforseen consequences to Elliot's perceived master plan that only makes things worse.
@SzatanistaDzezowy
2 жыл бұрын
I hate Mr Robot, one of the most pretentious shows ever created.
@SzatanistaDzezowy
2 жыл бұрын
Although I dropped it after season 2 so dont know if the ending is good. And I agree that the ending is one of the most important part of a good story.
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
Lol
@TomEyeTheSFMguy
2 жыл бұрын
Can I just ask how it's pretentious?
@John-Doe-Yo
2 жыл бұрын
I’d try to see it through if I were you. Pretentious is the last word I can think that describes the show. It’s a little cheesy with the edginess and tech stuff from Elliot but it’s so worth it.
@jasond.b-w
2 жыл бұрын
I didn’t hate it because it was pretentious, but because it mislabeled what it was trying to portray and ended on a horribly offensive message. It’s kinda refreshing to see criticism for it, even if I don’t agree with why, ngl.
@ozy667
2 жыл бұрын
Mr robot is by far one of the most overrated shows ever, it was pretty, and thats it, season 1 was fight club, season 2 the main character is stuck in a filler arc for most of it, season 3 is angelas show, season 4 just throw a bunch of plot twists most of it out of nowhere, all of the women on the show turn lesbian just cause, the big evil machine from the antagonist amounted to nothing, AND alot of characters are just thrown in the trashcan, look at tyrell and his wife for god sake, the man was the main antagonist in the first season, he appears in ONE episode in the final season. BTW, this was once supposed to be around 3 to 5 movies, thats why the filler.
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
Lol did the lesbianism hurt your feelings?
@justincruz5720
2 жыл бұрын
This is such a bizarre take.
@karabokhanyile
2 жыл бұрын
The show is mainly about Elliot and his DID,I didn't really care to see how other storylines concluded because the story wasn't really about them imo
@RodrickMarsMoon
2 жыл бұрын
Published author here. My method, that I think writers could try, is planning the beginning and the end as a architect and the middle as a gardener, and changing details of the ending considering what happened in the middle without compromising the overall story.
@marcuswalters8093
2 жыл бұрын
YES. I'm working on a story myself at the moment and while I've always known how it ends, the details have changed and expanded as I've gone on. Knowing how it ends has allowed me to adjust and develop the themes and tone of my story as I write. Not having a clue where it was going would have turned it into a sprawling mess.
@veronicab15
16 күн бұрын
awesome take
@JimboSlyc3
2 жыл бұрын
So glad to see you tackling Mr Robot. One of my personal favorite shows, but I’ve always felt that it never got the recognition it deserved alongside the other great shows of the past decade.
@karabokhanyile
2 жыл бұрын
I recently watched a KZitem video that mentioned it when tackling shows/movies that have unreliable narrators,check it out if you haven't I think it's called unreliable narrators (I think I might have seen a similar comment to yours in that video so my bad if it was you lol)
@BitesTheDusto
2 жыл бұрын
@zetta _ barry and mr robot top tier
@navarone4031
2 жыл бұрын
the dialogue in mr robot is kinda cringy :(
@luluna5228
Жыл бұрын
Mr robot is utter garbage
@izak5356
Жыл бұрын
@@navarone4031 care to provide an example?
@brimward122
2 жыл бұрын
Love mr robot. The therapy episode with Vera was one of the best tv episodes I've ever seen.
@soaphope3398
2 жыл бұрын
It’s a masterpiece
@JulianBabad
2 жыл бұрын
You mention a few times how knowing the ending makes your story more thematically resonant, and I cannot overstate how much I agree - cohesive theme is the most important part of your story, twist or no twist. It is, to me, what makes the difference between a series of plot points and a *story*. Knowing your ending draws a conceptual line in the sand-constantly reminding you that: “hey, this is what you’re trying to say. These are the thoughts and feelings you want to leave your audience with”. It’s like bowling with the bumpers up.
@fatuousinnovatorofsadness4640
2 жыл бұрын
This is true, but you can also not know the ending with certain stories. As a theoretical (and one that has played out in many great films), you can not focus on themes at all, and simply focus on character. Robert Eggers does this to great success in all of his films. In that case, the only thing you might have for an ending might be a moment where the characters themselves are pushed down into a life altering, theme-enlightening decision. And then, only after you've written it out, will you know what decision they make - and only then can your ending be decided upon. The most popular version of this is Breaking Bad. Vince didn't even think about how to end the show seriously until around season 3, and only put together a plan around season 4. They wouldn't have even been able to go down the path they went down, which was itself a legendary, for the ages story, had they planned the ending. That would have completely undermined and destroyed the spontaneity that guided the show down it's winding paths and made it feel so human, so real. They NEEDED to go in without a plan, because the ending was crafted through the process of writing. They were going to kill Jesse off in the first couple seasons. A pre-planned ending from there would completely eliminate the ending we got, which is arguably one of the best finales ever written. You can just not write an ending IF IT'S YOUR STYLE. Some people are so much better at connecting what has come before that the ending is crafted through the process of writing. Some need an ending to keep the process of writing on track. It's up to the individual, mostly. Sam is a wildly creative writer with an incredible talent for honing in on and exploring tones and moods and then building an amazing story around them - which is a skill that NEEDS to be guided by a planned route, otherwise you get lost.
@DenseEpiphany
2 жыл бұрын
@@fatuousinnovatorofsadness4640 same with Better Call Saul, but these are the best writers in the game so idk if anyone can do what they did hahhaha. They always write themselves in a corner but manage to handle it masterfully. One of the best examples is when Walter bought a machine gun in s5e1 but Vince himself didn't even know yet, why Walt would do that.
@barbiezinha5633
2 жыл бұрын
the gossip girl problem is the same with pretty little liars- these shows are so obviously written on the spot that it ruins the whole mystery in the first place, especially in later seasons
@mariana-ni9wl
2 жыл бұрын
I love this. Not only Mr. Robot’s finale made perfect sense but it was also beautiful and I still think about the last 5 minutes all the time. As for Gossip Girl… even the actors hated it
@grahamcrawford4773
2 жыл бұрын
Stephen King is an advocate of the gardening approach to writing. A number of his works and a lot of his endings illustrate how this approach can go horribly wrong.
@twisted-t
2 жыл бұрын
F***ing totally! I used to be a HUGE fan of him in my teens but in my mid twenties after reading some better books I came to LOATHE most of his works. I find it especially funny that in The Stand which is the fan favorite he confessed he didn't know what to do with the ending and then he had a "genius" realization to kill half of main characters and do this totally random thing with travelling on their feet to confront the main villain. But Needful Things takes the cake IMO - just totally f***ng silly and anticlimactic. (Sorry for my bad English btw - not a native and quite a bit tipsy when writing this lol)
@bulbafett5001
2 жыл бұрын
@@twisted-t The Movie for Needful things. Just Max Von Sydow strolling out of the flaming building, brushing off debris and flames. "Oh well, guess this towns a bust, later losers" Is just hilarious. Anticlimatic as hell, but I feel fitting for the Devil/Flagg to just rob them of any form of catharsis.
@weslleyfj
2 жыл бұрын
Reading Under the Dome made me lose any interest of ever reading any of his other work again. It simply made me feel like the almost 1000 pages I'd been reading just didn't matter in the end. It was the first and last for me.
@twisted-t
2 жыл бұрын
@@bulbafett5001 my "favorite" part was the main characters simply gaining magic powers cause "just believe, baby".
@twisted-t
2 жыл бұрын
@@weslleyfj the first book of his I just gave up on after reading about 100 pages.
@idabrandt9831
2 жыл бұрын
Wait, Dan is actually Gossip Girl? I only watched the first four seasons before losing interest in the show. I honestly thought Dan being Gossip girl was just a meme someone made up because the identity was never revealed! And Dan was like, the most funny, unbelievable choice they could think about! Thanks for the video, great one as always! 😂
@radhiadeedou8286
Жыл бұрын
From what I've heard, Eric was supposed to be GG but fans figured it out way too early so the writers had to figure out something, and they went with the most ridiculous option
@lightbluechucks
Жыл бұрын
Mr Robot is one of the best shows ever made. I’m usually dead inside and that fourth season made me feel so many things
@bendovskey2209
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Robot will always be the best show ever made (imo)... We need More Showrunners and Producers like Sam Esmail and Vince Gilligan. And more shows should have a memorable score and utilize fantastic cinematography as in Mr. Robot, BCS, BB etc.
@_greenrunner_
2 жыл бұрын
Yoko Taro writes the Nier series backwards. He starts with the ending of the story and then works his way backwards constantly adding little details and he makes it work everytime
@scarlett-iy8yh
2 жыл бұрын
mr robot is my favorite show of all time, and im so happy that someone is talking about it! it honestly doesn’t get the recognition it deserves
@quantummidget
2 жыл бұрын
It really doesn't, I'm always amazed by how few people have watched it.
@dustinherk8124
2 жыл бұрын
I'd suggest giving The Expanse a chance. That is another awesome show if you are looking to fill the void of Mr Robot, being finished.
@quantummidget
2 жыл бұрын
@@dustinherk8124 cheers, I'll add it to my list
@dustinherk8124
2 жыл бұрын
@@quantummidget its on amazon prime. just get past the first 3 episdoes, its a slower burn because of all the early world building, but after ep 4 your are running full speed, because they establish most everything early on, and can focus on story, and character development from that point. based off the book series too.
@rini6
2 жыл бұрын
I may have to watch the entire Mr Robot series for a third time now. You reminded me how and why the show was so amazing. Regarding Gossip Girl, it is stunning that with the amount of money and number of people involved they were still flailing in the dark. Perhaps art is best created by one or only a few close people who have a vision in mind. But we knew that. This video is a great encapsulation of that. Thanks
@sifatshams1113
2 жыл бұрын
While I totally agree with the points you made in this video, it must be stated that Vince Gilligan makes a pretty good case for being a Gardener.
@alexforce9
2 жыл бұрын
I think he probably did have an ending in mind tho. There was some tiny voice in his head saying "There is no way in hell this will end up in a happy place for Walter. "
@abdulazizmerdad4093
2 жыл бұрын
Nah Gilligan was definitely an architect you could tell since the first scene of the 5th season that he had his ending planned now I believe in the beginning he was a gardener but he definitely became an architect when making season 3-5
@belowaveragejoh
2 жыл бұрын
I’m so glad Mr Robot is getting its posthumous flowers for its incredibly cohesive execution and restraint
@warlordofbritannia
2 жыл бұрын
Not a fiction writer, but as a historian I’ve always planned out my papers beforehand However! That plan tends to be fairly thin and flexible. As you get more information and even as you write, you’re going to want to change things as you actualize. Typically, my thesis when I originally plot things out is going to be sharpened and more specific as part of the process, to the point that my starting point almost seems stupidly simplistic by the time I’m done. So, overall I lean towards the planning side of things while being aware enough to keep my options open ig 😂
@karabokhanyile
2 жыл бұрын
I've never seen the original gossip girl (I watched 8 episodes of the reboot and I hated it) I watched all of Mr Robot last month and it's stayed with me to this day. Rami Malek was superb and it had the best ending of a show I loved since Nikita (CW)
@SebLeCaribou
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know how much I agree with your video for once... I agree that, most of the time, if there is a mystery you are working towards, knowing the solution to that mystery is better. But I think that there are exceptions to that rule, especially when it comes to TV shows. Because TV shows are rarely written for the exact number of seasons they will last, which complicates the problem greatly. Something that make sense for one or two seasons, may not make sense after 8 more renewal because the show is popular. You might have to "fill" the seasons and make the character evolve in ways you hadn't planned just so that it stays entertaining. And these characters may end up being very different that the ones you were planning the ending for. And I think that GoT is an example of how to plan wrong and how not to plan wrong at the same time. The other example that I think contradicts this idea of planning in advance is How I Met Your Mother's ending. SPOILERS for both shows: So Game Of Thrones: -Didn't plan and it sucks: in s8e3 Arya kills the Nigh Kings. Makes no sense thematically, or narratively, even if she has the skills to do it. It should have been either John or Bran maybe (or Jaime? If you want a fun pun on "The King Slayer" title). The point is, they tried to be surprising, but it just came out of nowhere and was not satisfying because the character had no prior business or particular reason to make that move. They should have thought of that way earlier in the series and "prepare" a character for it (like John ffs) -Planned it and it sucked: in s8e5, Daenerys burns a city full of innocent people and then gets murdered for her crasyness. Though I'm not 100% sure about it, I'm pretty certain it's where they wanted the show to go from the start, and even where Martins is going to end the book series. Except the way they portrayed the character doesn't work at all with that ending. She never did something that insane; she can be ruthless, but she has a sense of justice and a constant need of saving innocents. This ending contradicts what has been presented to us throughout the show. They should have changed that ending. Either have her killed in battle, or make her take the throne. HIMYM: -This still pisses me off to this day XD They planned on having the mother die and Ted ending up with Robin. Except that was when the series was not 8 seasons in. They kept the ending they had planned, except the characters where NOT AT ALL where they needed to be for that ending to make sense. Ted had moved on, they actually managed to stick the landing with the mother reveal (after 8 seasons of anticipation she was a suprisingly good character), Robin was married to Barney who had progressively evolved from his bachelor life to engaging with someone he loves. And then they reversed litterally 5 seasons of character growth in 15minutes of the last episode to fullfil a stupid ass ending that didn't only created problems, not only narratively but also ethically. I think that planning an ending should be mandatory. BUT especially in the case of a TV show, re-evaluating that ending in the light of how much the show evolved is WAY more important than having an ending in the first place. Ultimately, I think it's not a dichotomy between being a planner or a gardener. In TV writing, you need to do both.
@pseudodidact3956
2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis. It’s interesting how Mr. iRobot was intended to be a movie. The writers did a good job stretching the story for a full series. I, on the other hand, can barely connect point A to point B when I’m writing, so I’m beyond impressed. 💀
@osmanyousif7849
2 жыл бұрын
You know shows that didn’t learn this with their endings? Lost, Dexter, and the most recent shows Killing Eve and Ozark. Man, did Ozark piss me off more. It was like the creators stopped giving a damn. Would be interesting to see you tackle these shows in your Finale Face-Off series (Which I’m surprised that this video isn’t part of your series).
@Bugga-Ray-Dudley
2 жыл бұрын
What happened to ozark? I remember enjoying it a lot and then just got bored
@DLites151
2 жыл бұрын
@@Bugga-Ray-Dudley Ozark final season was an absolute shitshow
@osmanyousif7849
2 жыл бұрын
@@Bugga-Ray-Dudley , it had the most stupid final episode and ending. Character arcs went downhill, the story became so inconsistent, and so many moments felt contrived and not smart. It even left so many questions unanswered.
@Bugga-Ray-Dudley
2 жыл бұрын
@@osmanyousif7849 that’s disappointing the show seemed really smart and patient in the beginning
@kombuchas4684
2 жыл бұрын
I'm so worried that Severance might go the Gossip Girl route. The first season is honestly one of the best shows I have ever seen, but I really hope the showrunners have an idea of where the show is going.
@luizafantin109
2 жыл бұрын
Knowing your ending applies to comedy as well. The first three seasons of Arrested Development have some amazing foreshadowing and, in my opinion, a great ending.
@SLAP1FACE
2 жыл бұрын
MR. Robot is a masterpiece and the greatest show of my lifetime.
@usmansubhani7482
2 жыл бұрын
I straddle the line. I first make the world and characters like an architect, then change into a gardener that lets those characters bleed into the story. Changing the plan to suit the character arcs and themes I’m ‘gardening’.
@UriTrash
2 жыл бұрын
You can have a crappy begining, a crappy middle but always make a big ending or everything will be waste. Something like this said irving in season 3 of mr robot
@mytime991
2 жыл бұрын
Season 3 of Mr. Robot is essentially perfect. Not a single flaw.
@robchuk4136
2 жыл бұрын
Mr Robot was pretty dope. I think Season 1 is amazing, S2 dips a little, S3 gets back on track, and S4 is masterful. I never watched Gossip Girl, so I can't speak to it (and I'm skipping that section because who knows? Maybe I'll check it out someday), but I do have some thoughts about other finales based on "Knowing your Ending"... I find the ending of *Game of Thrones* complicated because how can they know their ending when the books never got finished! I'm giving them some leeway here, lol. I can do no such thing for *Killing Eve* who's finale was an unmitigated disaster, predicated by the push and pull between pandering to shippers or being true to the story logic. *Avatar The Last Airbender* and *The Legend of Korra* are two ends of an interesting spectrum. The most satisfying finale I may have ever watched is actually from the Avatar cartoon. This is a textbook example of what having a roadmap looks like, and executing it to a T. Animation, by nature has to plan things out in advance, which is why it's so baffling the sequel series, Korra, had an ending that was much more rushed. With *L O S T* there's much debate about if the creators knew their ending or not, and if so, how long they knew it. Going into that controversial finale, I was ready for anything. A lot of viewers felt questions weren't answered (they were, they were just unsatisfying), but I'm of the mind their finale 'got away with it,' because it did connect with me emotionally, and I'd argue that's important too. On that token, I also think *The Leftovers* has a similarly strong, emotional finale, and it's from one of the same guys. *Endings coming soon* Strangers Things has announced and an date, and imo, this is a series that probably should have been an anthology after Season 1. They have their work cut out for them... Better Call Saul is also wrapping up, and them knowing their ending is unique in that as a prequel, it has to dovetail into an established series. I can't think of any other TV examples they can follow for inspiration.... I've been watching the Attack on Titan anime, and having not read the manga, I have no idea how it will conclude. Seemingly, adaptations shouldn't have this 'know your ending' problem, right? The source material is basically storytelling insurance.
@raphaelzakhm7310
2 жыл бұрын
Journeys tend to, by the nature of their own structure, have very satisfying endings because every journey has a destination, a culmination of all the previous events. You just need to not make a boring middle (easier said than done) and make the end of the journey valuable (saving the kingdom, reclaiming a birthright, getting treasure, that kind of stuff.). They also allow for some "filler" and episodic instances that people generally like to see (like characters taking a break to relax, visiting different countries, varied biomes etc.), as long as they are not too damaging to the overall pace.
@raphaelzakhm7310
2 жыл бұрын
So, addressing the point of Avatar (which was the reason why I wrote all of that above). The first series had a very clear ending: stop the Fire Nation and save the world. We had three seasons for the characters to grow in that journey, experiencing a lot of different situations and exploring the world they would like to save, building towards the final moment they would defeat Ozai. On the other hand, Korra did not go on a journey like the Aang, and did not have a "Final Big Bad" to beat. In this case, Korra had villains PER SEASON, with which one of them representing an ideology, not necessarily building up from each other and, again, only one season to flesh out the antagonists - some of them were more compelling than others, and the quality and pace of the seasons varied; the same with escalation of the tension. I actually like Korra series, but Avatar had a more "reliable" structure for the writers to work with it.
@e443productions9
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like I’m more of a gardner/pantser, but I often start the story knowing how it’s supposed to end more or less
@SnakeWasRight
9 ай бұрын
As far as archirect vs gardener, I architect the plot, but I garden the characters, which means they can and do often change the plot. Sometimes they need to be steered in a certain direction, but most often, the chaos of making their own decisions makes things better on every level. But a structure in the setting and antagonist are needed to have them react to.
@Sharpe1502
2 жыл бұрын
I’m not a huge fan of Penn Badgely’s shows, but I very much enjoy his criticism of the shows his own characters. Poor guy deserves better writing.
@marcuswalters8093
2 жыл бұрын
I only watched this to hear what I've always thought. Have an ending from the start. I was shocked to discover US writers don't tend to do this. Especially when it comes to mysteries. I can reel off cases where making it up as you go along leads to deeply unsatisfying resolutions. The Final Five The nature of The Island Bran The Broken The Wolf of God Endings made up on the spot to conclude long running stories are nearly always obvious and nearly always disappointing.
@StormRiderDJS
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! You finally covered my favorite TV show. I've watched it through 3 times by now, and it's one of the only shows I own on disc. I can only hope one day you’ll do a deeper analysis of this masterpiece, even if you crap on it a little lol
@GodMothaKyle
2 жыл бұрын
If you want to talk about a show not knowing it's own ending, look no further than Pretty Little Liars. Holy hell talk about a out of nowhere reveal and a lackluster ending that seemed like a last minute add in.
@nerdienew911
2 жыл бұрын
One of the biggest example of architect is definitely Attack On Titan. It foreshadows so much but it is always so subtle.
@chimedemon
2 жыл бұрын
Here’s a better way of thinking it… you NEED TO KNOW YOUR ENDING IF… you’ve got a twist or if there’s a running prevailing mystery going within the series. If it’s a story that’s not exactly supposed to reveal anything that recontextualized the entire story then it’s not as important. But if you absolutely want a story that has any grand reveal you NEED to know it. It’s the difference between Sherlock the tv show vs Sherlock Holmes, the better one. The show basically just made Sherlock know everything all the time all at once, sometimes figuring stuff out off screen like some bullshit anime character we’ve seen too much of. They didn’t really have an ending in mind (if they did they didn’t really do the lead up or pay off very well whatsoever) while the old stories you and Holmes discovering the actual mystery unfold WITH a decisive person known in the end. If you wanna be like Tarantino, welll that’s harder but not necessarily impossible, just DO NOT make a grand reveal, and instead end it off in a way that feels more in line with the story’s through line. He’s stated in multiple interviews that he doesn’t know the ending nor wants to until he gets there, mainly because his characters at that point are completely different people. Sooooo just know what kind of story you want and go from there :D
@TwoGraves284
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, I don't think the final episode of Mr Robot was a good conclusion, While it recontextualized the narrative, it didn't do it in a good way. If the series was about Elliot's development as a character why have the twist be that he actually isnt Elliot. I Absolutely loved the twist in 407, in fact I think its one of the best episodes in Tv History, that's why I dislike the ending so much. They Even Resolved the plot that is secondary to Elliot, the elites, and the series "ends" in 409. They only needed one Explanation to the thematic question, witch was that Elliot was molested as a child. His final development as a character is realizing that he was abused in this manner and he decides to "take out his anger" on the elites and go through with the plan to destroy there wealth. The finale doesn't conclude his development as a character it just says Oh, actually it didn't happen. 409 or 410 both work because they are the conclusion to both Elliot and Phillip's stories. This is similar to your take on the final season of breaking bad, Witch I 100% agree with, And I think it applies here too. Not to mention, It makes the story make no sense either, He couldn't have even been molested if he was trapped in a different universe, or if the original version of Elliot was than it would have happened to him because he is just a personality. How was "The mastermind" even molested if they somehow trapped original Elliot inside the other dimension before the series began, and how did they even merge with real Elliot? The finale brings up more questions than it had before and then doesn't answer them.
@alfredgarcia6844
9 ай бұрын
I can understand where you’re coming from, but I completely disagree. Firstly, everything that the MM went through in the real world was real. Because of this, he was “Molested” the same way real Elliot was, which is part of why he exists in the first place. Also, since he is a physical manifestation of Elliot’s anger and rage, I believe that his final character development is finally accepting his life as it is especially since his actual target was already eliminated. The MM’s final character arc was finally recognizing that his war was over and now, it’s time to actually do his original job and protect and help Elliot as they try to pick up the pieces of their lives. To address your last point, they didn’t “Merge” with Elliot. They simply relinquished control and finally allowed Elliot to live his life because they’ve seen the consequences of what blinding Elliot to the truth will do.
@chaseguap
2 жыл бұрын
You gotta be both gardener and architect, breaking bad had Jessie dying but they like Aaron Paul so much they made him a main character and changed the story
@thewhitewolf58
2 жыл бұрын
I would say garden the first few drafts to find cool directions then architect a final story.
@SamSepiolTheHeretic
2 жыл бұрын
Re watching Mr Robot after season 4 is mind-blowing
@BitesTheDusto
2 жыл бұрын
Lets go I left a comment real long ago pleading for a mr robot video, I cant believe my eyes
@skyteus
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Robot KreyGasm
@Ellestra
2 жыл бұрын
I really loved how it all came together in the final episodes of Mr Robot. All the things that were there since beginning - from Eliot jumping from his window was really him trying to save Darlene from their father to the very fact that Mastermind didn't remember who Darlene was - the clues were there from the start. There were some things along the way were I thought the show was losing it's way but they stuck the ending and so many shows fail at that.
@beasttitanofficial3768
2 жыл бұрын
All of Riverdale is jumping the shark lmfao
@AlexisBii
2 жыл бұрын
BREAK GOSSIP GIRL DOWN FOR US KING I NEEDED THIS!!!
@NASkeywest
2 жыл бұрын
The ending of Mr. Robot left me feeling existential.
@ronitdesai6988
2 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with 95% of what you said in the video. Stuff like an ending is the most important part of the story. Mr. Robot had arguably the greatest ending of any piece of media out there. I read about 1000 theories for how the show would end before the finale aired and none of them were true, the actual ending was completely different and still completely satisfying and so on point for the characters and it's just absolutely drop-dead beautiful. I am just thankful to everyone involved with Mr. Robot for creating this GOAT masterpiece. However, I do disagree with one point in your video that HIMYM and GOT comparison. HIMYM's ending did make sense and it does stay true to its characters. The only thing is that the creators had kept both the endings till the last possible second and planted seeds for both cases so that whatever they choose would make sense. I've seen that show 17 times and I will defend its ending as much as I can. GOT's ending on the other hand was not only rushed but was also extremely poorly executed and is just plain bad. I don't think comparing these two in the same manner as having bad endings is fair. Great video though brother, I hope more people watch Mr. Robot and make videos about it.
@MadeInHeavxn
2 жыл бұрын
i truly believe that mr robot is a show you need to watch more than once to fully understand its beauty. it was very well executed and truly attention catching. its something that you cant put on as background noise. it took me multiple watches of each episode to appreciate it.
@benediktmathes2528
2 жыл бұрын
What happens when you plan out your story from the beginning: Dark I don't think you could ever create such an interesting and cohesive show with gardening... Going for a mix, so planning the most important plot points and try making up the rest, is definitely way harder. The more gardening you do, the more you have to be a real genius and let's be honest... not everyone is Oda. 😉
@farfaraway4285
Жыл бұрын
Dark is so forgotten, as much as I love Mr. Robot, Dark I love more.
@jerrysstories711
2 жыл бұрын
Mr Robot was brilliant, but it lost a LOT of points because the big subplot about White Rose's mysterious machine went nowhere. The machine failed, and we never even learned its purpose.
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
‘‘Twas the point homie
@jerrysstories711
2 жыл бұрын
@@MacabreStorytelling Don't you sass me, Drunk James Woods.
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
@@jerrysstories711 patrician lore reference
@LightningNC
2 жыл бұрын
10:01 -- Using "cultured" ironically, heh, that's kinda funny. 14:43 -- Oh wow, he really is a man of culture.
@Barbies_Angel
2 жыл бұрын
Or alternatively: be a Mulholland Drive/Audition and not a Green Inferno
@Maxwell03
2 жыл бұрын
I've never heard Mulholland Drive and Green Inferno mentioned in the same sentence before.
@nofail
2 жыл бұрын
Dude... i skipped the mr robot portion thinking you'd keep the spoilers to that part then got big spoiled in the 2nd part
@MacabreStorytelling
2 жыл бұрын
smdh
@ZendikarMage42750
2 жыл бұрын
I do not envy the writers of long form television. My own writing process usually involves coming up with a bunch of different, yet slightly similar ideas, writing plot point outlines for each, picking my favorite parts of each, combining that into a Frankenstein's monster version of an outline, then letting the characters drive the smaller details of the story as I actually write it. Needless to say, it requires several rewrites to be at all consistent and the whole process is far from efficient, heh heh
@BrunaCubbins
2 жыл бұрын
Mr. Robot will be forever my favorite tv show. I love it so much.
@JoshuaS-ur7jm
Жыл бұрын
Hey I doubt you are still responding on this video but what do you think about mr robot being the protector and Elliot being the mastermind at the end of the show? I find mr robot being the “protector” is a little weird since he almost got Elliot killed countless times in S3 and was in a literal war with him lol. Also he gave tyrell a gun to shoot Elliot with soooo… I will say I think S4 is the best tv show season oat imo
@MacabreStorytelling
Жыл бұрын
I think Mr. Robot was the protector of the OG Elliot, but since it was The Mastermind who he was speaking with more often than not, Mr. Robot’s anger and rage at him super exes his better sense from time to time.
@JoshuaS-ur7jm
Жыл бұрын
@@MacabreStorytellinggood point, this is true but wouldn’t him getting mastermind dead also kill og Elliot? Since they are the same person lol. But I do think it is a lil inconsistent ngl. But I do think hello Elliot is still one of the best finales I’ve seen, I just think there are some noticeable moments where mr robot acts out of character in the context of the finale. Like I can’t get over mr robot giving tyrell a gun and telling him to shoot mastermind if he tries to stop the hack. Seems completely out of character to me at least
@jasonblundelldobebussing
2 жыл бұрын
Is that a Yakuza video?
@seen921
2 жыл бұрын
100% Have the courage to end it and not to play to fan service or ego
@GeorgesSegundo
9 ай бұрын
Great wisdom in your words brother, so helpful for an aspiring writer like me.
@LibertyRapsher
Ай бұрын
Gargantuan fan of Mr. Robot, but I've never heard of Gossip Girl.
@CharlieSoze
2 жыл бұрын
I suspect a lot of the "writing without an ending in mind" comes from the old network model, where if a show suddenly becomes a hit, the network will want seven more seasons, requiring the creators to either tread water getting to their destination, or else to keep coming up with new destinations. You would hope that needing to tell one coherent story with a planned ending would mean the creators would say "we need four seasons to get there and that's all we're making", yet I think we all know that this doesn't fly if a show suddenly blows up and everyone starts seeing $$$. Mr. Robot was perfect.
@HeatherHolt
2 жыл бұрын
I wasn’t a fan of season 2 of mr robot. But season 1 was a masterpiece. As cliche as it is IDC but fight club is my favorite movie of all time so it really resonated with me bc I didn’t catch it until the reveal. And all that yummy serotonin flowed thru my brain.
@conradtrueit7882
2 жыл бұрын
Given all story comes from character, I cannot agree more regarding the necessity of (generally) knowing your ending from the start - but also being open to your characters leading you to a new/better one. That being said, I’m not sold on Mr. Robot as an example of a show sticking the landing. Having finished the series without knowledge of Esmail’s claim to have known its ending from the start - if you believe that to begin with - the ending, to me, felt very jump-the-shark. A sort of left-field subversion of Fight Club, which is where, in my mind, the series was leading me. So, to each his is own, but “one of the greatest television series of all time,” a masterpiece? In the words of Tony Soprano, “Get the fuck outta here.” Great work as always, Mac.
@nobodyfromnowwhere7510
7 ай бұрын
It's funny, because I consider MR's ending the thing that ruined the series for me. I didn't even watch the rest. It was just too fucking cliché, obvious, and lame. To have it all boil down to that was just the worst choice they could have made, IMO. Not just because fathers always have to be bad, but because it's the most painfully obvious choice they could have made. Edit - It also makes his therapist looks like the worst therapist on planet earth. Molestation should have been the FIRST thing the considered for a kid whose inciting episode involved his father and memory loss.
@profviral
Жыл бұрын
Knowing your ending is everything; the basic ideas he left in notes and ideas he shared with his friend is the reason why the Berserk series will be able to finish despite the death of Miura. Compared to CLAMP, who said it was unlikely they'd pick pick up X/1999 again (despite it being on a something like a +15 year hiatus). One of their greatest manga, and we'll never learn how it ends 😢
@yonatanhoresh2695
9 ай бұрын
I've never watched Mr Robot so obviously this doesn't mean anything coming from me, but that final twist with the "Mastermind" personality sounds like avsolute dogshit lol Genuinely wondering how they made that work, if true
@DrtyALGreen
8 ай бұрын
As someone who watched Mr. Robot when it first aired every week(I even won a hoodie from their viral marketing strategy).....the ending for me was perfect and tied every up nicely. The second watch through is definitely amazing.
@twisted-t
2 жыл бұрын
IMO you should've chosen a better show to illustrate your point on the "garden" approach - Gossip Girl is a show for simpletons who'd eat up any sh***t. These shows are many, many leagues apart. Ideally it should've been shows from the same league. I hope you'll do another REDUX for this video one day)))
@abonny
2 жыл бұрын
How I met your Mother never had to course correct. I simply do not know how people can keep saying that about the ending. All the decisions made by characters in the final 2 episodes made absolute sense in context of the whole 9 seasons. Did Barney have a big slide back into old habits? Yes. But it as established through all 9 seasons that he had huge abandonment issues because his father left him. He then becomes a father himself and does NOT abondon his child, making his story come full circle. It was never about him finding the love of his life and settling down. People just wanted him to. The marriage with Robin was a big factor for Ted and Robin's story. Robin had made a wrong decision out of love for Barney AND the thought that she would not be good enough for Ted. She chose the man she THOUGHT she was good enough for: Barney. It didn't work but now Ted had finally let go of her and found the love of his life. He finally lived the life with his wife and two kids that he always dreamed of. But things are not that easy. He lost her and over the following 6 years (through the story he told his children), he because the romantic guy again who he once was in his 20s and 30s. He was finally ready to try again with Robin. Now they both had a chance to be with each other because the TIMING was right (Robin had been talking about timing in an earlier season and how it was always wrong for her and Ted). So they ALL came full circle. No course correction. No "dropped" character development. I'll always defend the ending of the show. It wasn't perfect (I keep saying the finale should have been a 3-parter and not a 2-parter to drive some of the points home), but it was a fitting one. Bittersweet and true to the characters.
@chungusmaximus526
2 жыл бұрын
The Mr. Robot and Fight Club endings both leave us with this sort of idealistic anarchist ambiguous conclusion without a visible aftermath of what a world without the villain looks like. Both never show the power vacuum and vice that will continue to plague man even after the fall of the evil predecessor. In short, it's human nature to do and undo.
@martingomez3221
Жыл бұрын
This is a good essay, but I honestly think the concept discussed isn't "knowing your ending". It's "knowing the satisfying answer to your core mystery". Which, yes, is something you 100% need to have nailed down or risk immense disappointment. Knowing your ending, though, is I think a much more nuanced discussion with more angles to it, and it's not really touched on here. The actual dramatic endings of either series aren't really touched on at all.
Пікірлер: 286