Thank you, Mr Hurwitz. I suffered in silence for many years while confronting these ridiculous, self-inflicted packaging problems perpetrated by the music companies. It was entirely therapeutic to watch this and know that I haven't been alone in my grief.
@atomkraftteddy
3 жыл бұрын
No ergonomics. Only egonomics.
@ftumschk
3 жыл бұрын
"Egonomics" - nice one! I work in software design, and I can see me using that in the future :)
@RequiemAeternam01
2 жыл бұрын
With the prongs in the jewel cases, it's true suffering when a few are broken, and every time you open the jewel case...THE CD FALLS STRAIGHT OUT!!!! A fun fact, in the 1980-90s, Philips Classics and DECCA issued different, specific types of prongs. In Europe, the prongs were further apart, with moderate gaps in between, and in the U.S. releases, they were closer together, arguably holding the CD much better than the European version. Quite often you can tell which release is which, not just by the "Made In..." text on the back, but the colour of the CD tray. The European issues for Philips Records and Philips Classics used a bright, burgundy red, to differentiate their CDs from others, but the American issues used a dark, greyish black.
@heatherharrison264
Жыл бұрын
These problems seldom plague me these days, but I remember them well and shudder with horror. My solution was to stop buying physical media and switch to digital downloads, and I copied all of my existing CDs and DVDs to the hard drive. Digital downloads are environmentally friendly, and the music is easy to access. No longer do I have to dig through dusty racks of CDs to find something and then extract it from its malicious packaging. Now, it takes me a few seconds at most to browse through the music files and find exactly what I want. I wish more digital downloads came with digitized booklets, but many do now and hopefully most will in the future. It shouldn't be all that difficult since booklets are produced in computer software these days, and outputting a PDF of the booklet should be a trivial matter. No solution is perfect - hard drives can crash, so it is necessary to make backups, but a few external hard drives take up far less space than thousands of CDs.
@HassoBenSoba
3 жыл бұрын
"....digestive systems of marine life...plankton that they live on...food chain...destroying all of us!..." Now THAT'S funny. LR
@mr.mikex-files7119
3 жыл бұрын
Another stupidity: I ordered Kitaenko doing Shostakovich symphonies (Capriccio SACDs). This box has 12 CDs, they are in white paper CD sleeves which have a large hole in the front covered with plastic on the inside of the sleeve. And they were all SEALED. I was not going to trim one edge of the sleeve off and leave them sitting in the box, there might be dust and garbage from the trimming. I just transferred them to similar unsealed envelopes (nice colored ones) which I already had.
@rudyfan1926
3 жыл бұрын
Another problem when you have old sets you do not pull out monthly, or even yearly, the old practice of a thin layered piece of foam in the boxed sets to protect the cds. Now, 30 years later foam pieces which have rotted. In some cases are now stuck to the label side of the disc.
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, a mess. This has been discussed extensively already.
@rudyfan1926
3 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide I am catching up on your prodigious number of videos, give me time. 🤣
@martinhaub2602
3 жыл бұрын
I always liked the way that Vox packaged their disks 35 years ago. Eco-friendly cardboard, the disk in a soft paper-like envelope, and when you unfold it real liner notes printed at a readable font size. The cases were sturdier than the Bis cardboard packs and thicker so the spine had plenty for space for identification. Too bad those didn't catch on.
@simonvaughan6017
3 жыл бұрын
It seems to be beyond the wit of man to come up with decent packaging for CDs: after nearly forty years, no one has managed it. All things considered, I think jewel cases are still the best option. As you say, at least they can be replaced. Even so, I've been having trouble lately sourcing cases that conform to the industry standard. The last few batches I bought were really flimsy and didn't snap closed neatly. The record companies seem to have secret supplies inaccessible to the rest of us.
@dranfox
3 жыл бұрын
Dave, you have unrealistic expectations. Recall that CD packaging started with longboxes and blister packs, so you shouldn't expect much improvement from minds that came up with those. I ditched jewel cases years ago and transfer my discs to "jewelsleeves", which I recommend heartily. My current worst annoyance are those tri-fold paper sleeves that the big box sets use for operas or 3-disc symphony cycles. Getting the first or last disc out from the ends isn't too bad (using a soft cloth to avoid fingerprints), but the middle disc is impossible. You need one hand to hold the thing and crimp the sleeve, your second hand to bend the sleeve back so that you can get to the middle disc. The third hand is used to actually extract the disc, but it's invariably so tight that a fourth hand would come in handy to push from one side while you pull from the other.
@mike-williams
3 жыл бұрын
I think longboxes were a US-only crime. I was amazed to discover them still around a decade into the CD era, and I'd never seen them elsewhere in the world.
@jerrygennaro7587
3 жыл бұрын
Amen, Amen, Amen....Thanks for venting on all the catastrophes we've endured for the past 35 years or so, especially those center-opening gate folds. My solution is to store the CDs separately. My own particular nemeses have been those CDs from Andante. The packaging looks like a deluxe product and the documentation is substantial, but whoever did the assembly went ape-s**t with the hot clue on the black paper CD sleeves so that bits of paper stuck to the playing surface. Had no choice but to return them immediately to Amazon.
@Peter-wd1yo
3 жыл бұрын
Bring back vinyl. Sorted
@Don-md6wn
3 жыл бұрын
Lower resolution sound, much higher cost, degrades over time, higher percentage of defective merchandise that has to be returned, requires far more storage room, have to flip album sides during the middle of normal length classical works, expense of maintaining cartridge and stylus. No thanks, I'll deal with the inconveniences of CD packaging.
@josepholeary3286
3 жыл бұрын
@@Don-md6wn and SCRATCHES
@Don-md6wn
3 жыл бұрын
@@josepholeary3286 I was mentally including scratches as a subset of higher percentage of defective merchandise and degrades over time. I've bought and listened to several hundred CDs in the last 6 months or so and have had one disc that wouldn't play in its entirety and had to be returned. I'm confident enough in CDs that I sometimes take months to get to newly purchased ones, past when they can be returned as defective. In the days of LPs I wouldn't have ever taken that chance because the odds of getting a record that was warped, skipped and/or had repeating pops was so high. I don't miss vinyl at all.
@stevepillemann9373
3 жыл бұрын
Quote by Monty Python: "I will not buy this record. It is scratched."
@johns9624
3 жыл бұрын
How are the inside sleeves on your old lps bearing up? Dozens of mine have become unglued or the plastic inner sleeve has separated from the outer paper one, causing it to ruck-up every time I re-insert the record. Not a huge negative, but coupled with the list presented by Don the attraction of vinyl totally escapes me.
@pbarach1
3 жыл бұрын
However...however: Recall the anti-theft stickers and devices that were affixed to the outside of jewel boxes in retail stores. They would splinter into little pieces no matter how carefully you tried to remove them, often leaving gluey residue on the jewel case.
@mike-williams
3 жыл бұрын
@@darkprose and why do online vendors put sale and anti theft stickers on? They do it to books too and can completely ruin a dust jacket.
@BAW05X
3 жыл бұрын
This is relatable bordering on comforting. As someone with a disability, I have never found collecting to be particularly accessible from a fine motor perspective. But I thought I was the only one annoyed by so many of these things.
@williammorrison4262
3 жыл бұрын
Still another issue with jewel boxes: they are so slippery! I don't think I am any more of a klutz than the average guy, but whenever I try to carry a stack of say 8 or more CD's across the room, there is a huge chance some will go sliding off and break.
@olegroslak852
3 жыл бұрын
Actually, I think the best solution is one adopted relatively recently by BIS (although, sadly, only sporadically); that is, just make it a scaled down version of vinyl LP packaging. Why re-invent the wheel? This has 3 big advantages: 1) if you order it by mail, it doesn't come damaged (almost never); 2) it's about 1/3 the width of a jewel-case (if you have over 30,000 cds, and need to find a place for all of them, having them take up 1/3 the space is a HUGE deal); and 3) as long as it's not too "tight" for the cd inside, it slides in and out with little fuss, and I don't find that removing it and inserting it from these sorts of cases (the kinds generally found in big box sets like the Complete Columbia Album Collection series) don't really mark up the playing surface at all. A double album can be like the old vinyl double albums (opening on the OUTSIDE of the fold, please), and so on. What's not to love? They perfected this in the 1960s. It's been all downhill since then.
@jerrygennaro7587
3 жыл бұрын
Yes. The Japanese did this sometimes. The resulting mini-LP package measured about 5 1/4 inches square with about a 1/16" spine with just barely readable information. The package had enough play to accommodate the CD in a cloth (not paper) sleeve, plus a 9 1/4" sheet (folded in quarters) akin to the back of a LP jacket (in Japanese in this case). In some respects it's a cousin of the old MMG (Vox) cardboard package. If this has been adopted initially, it would have meant a single CD package that used only about 1/3 the linear shelf space of a singe CD jewel case at the cost of just a little higher package and without the muti-page booklets that we're now used to. Another cousin of the MMG (Vox) cardboard package could have been the type adopted for the first issues of the Sony Masterworks Heritage and Telefunken Legacy series. They're only slightly thinner that a jewel case but allow for insertion of thicker printed material. I admit that I'm only now appreciating the benefit of these.
@oznitorres7976
3 жыл бұрын
This is one of my favorite videos of all time.
@lewtaratua1719
3 жыл бұрын
The decayed foam stuff for 3 or 4CD box! It sticks to the CD and I have no courage to put that CD into my player. I lost more than 10 CDs.
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
Evidently, per another commenter, it washes off with warm water and a soft cloth used gently.
@lewtaratua1719
3 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for the helpful information. I have to read the commentary section before I write. There’s a lot of same complaining about this. And you have already mentioned it in workout talk.
@saltech3444
9 ай бұрын
Ever noticed how old LPs in record shows still look really smart? While the old CDs at the next table universally look like pieces of crap? It's a bit like properly bound books versus cruddy paperbacks.
@coolbugfacts1234
Ай бұрын
I'm convinced the revival of vinyl is entirely due to its size, weight, and physical packaging. CDs are still a great format even in 2024, both technically and physically, it's just their packaging that sucks.
@nigelsimeone9966
3 жыл бұрын
This is great to read. One infuriating thing happened when Cap-boxes (the cardboard ones for box sets) came along. They're nice enough if they're well designed but never, ever the same size as jewel cases: cap-boxes are always (or nearly always) a little taller and significantly narrower, so they won't ever line up right, however hard you try to make it so. A couple of other horrors: weird non-standard jewel cases (e.g. the sort the original release of the Bernstein White House Cantata came out in, or the Erato set of Billy Budd) - if those get cracked, good luck finding another one anywhere - oh, and the two different and completely incompatible styles of hybrid SACD cases used by RCA, Mercury and others, so you think you've got a spare case and it turns out they won't fit the paperwork for the other type even though they look very similar. I mean, WHY? Also, any jewel-case style packaging for more than 4 discs: at least one CD is practically impossible to find, undoing them is like some kind of puzzle, and replacing cracked components just won't happen. Then there are booklets that are too thick for the jewel cases they've been put into, and which get chewed up when you put them back (but you only notice that after the damage has been done). On a more positive note, I've a couple of South Korean releases which are in miniature versions of the original jackets, but which also have nicely made (and surface-friendly) inner sleeves. Unless you want to read the text on the back, those look good and work well (the Westminster Chamber Music box is one such). Some Japanese boxes have nice inner sleeves made of some sort of soft material that seems to be kind to the surfaces as well. And on that note, thanks again for this one.
@sjc1204
3 жыл бұрын
Ha! The disc falling out of the Berlin/Petrenko product was hilarious. It does look cool as a product but I also agree with you about the marketing orchestras need to do can be over-the-top.
@dsammut8831
2 жыл бұрын
I had a Phillips one, ages ago.
@brutusalwaysminded
3 жыл бұрын
😂 God yes. Jewel cases are just dumb. And paper "sleeves" are worse. Good laugh. Thanks.
@im2801ok
3 жыл бұрын
Considering the general state of your gargantuan music collection, David, I strongly recommend you send Pipo to a Dewey CAT-aloguing course. You'll surely be awarded with a first-rate librarian!
@miguelrode
3 жыл бұрын
You didn't mention the sponges that came inside some of those multi-CD jewel boxes in the early days, presumably to help keep the CDs in place. I recently went through a collection of relatively old CDs and some of those sponges had disintegrated into dust inside the jewel box, at best, or were completely stuck to the CDs, rendering them unplayable...
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I have mentioned those, multiple times, and even in these comments, which evidently no one reads before posting! Oy!
@miguelrode
3 жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you really expect viewers to read the entire comments section before posting?
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
@@miguelrode I do, and if I do then so can you. You can at least glance through them.
@mike-williams
3 жыл бұрын
I have basically limited my physical CD purchases to 1) collectibles and 2) items from countries with no digital download stores or other mechanism for international customers to secure the content. The latter will be binned as soon as the CD has been ripped losslessly. A CD is basically an expensive and poorly performant substrate for digital bits. CD = digital bits + landfill + transportation and storage overheads. The other packaging crime is LIMITED INFORMATION ON THE COVERS that might reveal what the album contains. Is it vocal, or a chamber ensemble or a marimba orchestra? Ditto opus details - one doesn't know unless you open it up or find some internet description. Many labels are culpable e.g. ECM. There is also the case where CD store puts thumping big price stickers and/or anti-theft devices on a jewel box in a manner that completely obscures any useful information on the sleeve.
@Burgotron
3 жыл бұрын
There are a number of record shaped CD box sets with annoying packaging. Take the Harnoncourt-The Complete Sony Recordings box set for example (Gunter Wand The Great Recordings box set is another). A formed plastic tray with four deep wells for CD stacks. Good luck finding a specific CD without making a mess of CD’s everywhere.
@Alex-ze2xt
3 жыл бұрын
I feel your pain. Cardboards are not so bad (except for those awful ones where CDs are removed towards the center, not towards the edges), but some of these are so tight you'd have to fight for your CD, forcing it out then back in (Vol. 2 of the Bernstein: Mahler's Complete Symphonies and Orchestral Songs comes to mind). Digipacks are those that have additional plastic tray glued inside the cardboard and sometimes you can replace them without serious damage to the cardboard, but it's tricky. They always break during shipping! The double-CD jewel-cases (those that open its tray outwards) are sometimes wield such rigid prongs holding the CD you have to rip it out with such force as to bend the CD excessively. Boy, this is such a painful topic to discuss!
@kenwuesq
3 жыл бұрын
The Met/Verdi "horror show" is indeed that and reminds me of the butterfly ballots from the 2000 election. Bernstein's Original Jacket Mahler cycle from Sony uses those and I tore one of the sleeves, thus destroying the original jacket art Sony seems to be so proud of.
@MarauderOSU
3 жыл бұрын
Oh my goodness. My Bernstein Haydn box from Sony Classical is almost the same way. I nearly tore one of the sleeves trying to get one of the CDs out.
@twigfarm4229
Жыл бұрын
Talk about "horror shows", have you seen the way the CDs come in some of your BOOKS! I received a few for Christmas and I am yet to figure out how to get at the CDs in the Haydn book without actually destroying the books binding! Any suggestions? Luckily Beethoven or Bust didn't come with CDs and the Sibelius looks almost doable. I haven't tried yet so we'll see. But yes, if you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on getting them out without destroying the book, please let me know.
@mr.mikex-files7119
3 жыл бұрын
Early SACD releases used these idiotic cases called Super Jewel Boxes, different than typical jewel boxes for CDs. If I order single discs in these "Super" [sic] boxes through the mail, there is a 99.9% chance that the case, especially the "front door" will be cracked. You cannot easily replace these cases, because, aside from the fact that companies stopped issuing SACDs in them, they are expensive and they are "unavailable" from one typical dealer on Amazon which I just looked up. What is the point of ordering these anyway, they will probably also be busted when you get them! These days, SACDs are issued in what look more like normal jewel boxes, but if you want to adapt the earlier insert into them (like from the RCA Living Stereo releases), you will have to do some trimming. And then there are DVD Audio discs (another niche item), which come in an even more moronic version of the Super Jewel Box which is not the same size as the regular SACD releases. UGH!
@matthewweflen
Жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this rant and substantively agree with all of it - except on the notion of buying "nothing" when you buy a download. I have found, first of all, that buying music on Presto Classical does feel like buying something. You get the music, you get the cover art, you usually get the booklet as a PDF, which can be read at a much larger size than a jewel case box, and you get your whole purchased collection stored on Presto Classical's website, to be downloaded wherever and whenever you need it. But the thing is, whether you buy the CD or buy the "bits," what you're really buying are the bits. The CD is just a container for the bits, and a container fraught by all the difficulties you list in your video. You can store said container on your shelf, or you can rip the bits off of them and store them on a hard drive or an SD card (my entire music collection is duplicated in several locations - a 1tb SD card in my music player, a backup removable SSD drive that I can plug into my computer, and so on.
@johnmarchington3146
Жыл бұрын
How nice to hear someone discussing the abysmal CD and SACD packaging that is happening today. The original CD cases and the later Super Jewel Box cases for SACDs certainly have their limitations but, as you've mentioned, you can always replace the parts that are cracked or broken. However with the standard CD cases, there is one other annoyance for me and Chandos is the main offender. The booklets are often so thick that the areas near the staples get scuffed or even torn when you try to remove or put back the booklet. With other forms of packaging, if the claws that hold the CD get broken in transit when they're part of a cardboard digipak type of packaging your only course of action is to buy another disc.Thanks, David, for a great video.
@viningscircle
3 жыл бұрын
Indeed the jewel case is a poorly conceived container for CDs. I ditch them and put the CD, along with the booklet and cover art, in a vinyl sleeve, which occupies much less space. They go in a sort of a shoebox size plastic box. Over the jewel case, I prefer the cardboard "Digipack" as it feels more "organic" in the hand, like a miniature LP. But now I confess I find digitizing the collection to have the advantage of greater convenience in accessibility and portability for those mp3 players naturally.
@GastonBulbous
3 жыл бұрын
Priceless. All this stuff torments me. What I really hate is when you buy a 20-year-old used CD set that comes in one of those “fat box” double jewel cases and the postal service destroys it. It has become impossible to buy a replacement “fat box”.
@davidrowe3356
3 жыл бұрын
I once saw "The Rubber Gummy Spool Thing" in concert at The Bottom Line, and they covered... wait for it... Red Rubber Ball, and some other tunes by the 1910 Fruitgum Company. Good times.
@FREDGARRISON
2 жыл бұрын
Got to agree with you Dave. Everything you mention in this video has happened to me. Including that the long stretching glue that you refer to as SNOT !!!! I often wonder why when you buy those paper sleeves that hold cds, only the front is cellophane. If you put it in the sleeve with the label showing that means the cd playing surface is rubbing against the back paper side of the sleeve causing scratches and who knows what else. Why don't they make the inside of the sleeve all cellophane to prevent damage?
@VoceCorale
3 жыл бұрын
One of the worst CD packaging I've come across is the one they used for the Ligeti Edition on Sony (well, for some of the volumes at least). The case is wider than a standard one (almost twice) and the booklet is not held in place in any way, so you have to put it aside every time you open the case and then put it back in afterwards, paying attention to align it perfectly otherwise the lid won't close. The only thing this packaging accomplishes is taking more room on your ever-cramped shelf, while mildly annoying you.
@kevincummins481
3 жыл бұрын
What is worse is that I find that I hardly listen to the CDs which are hard to remove from their packaging. Or else I put them in a plastic case for easy extraction. This is particularly a shame if it's a premium priced luxury edition. Incidentally a post-it note can be used to extract the CD from a tight sleeve. (Well, as long as it's not too tight). It adheres to the label side and the disc can be pulled out with no touching of the playing surface. Of course after this procedure you are tempted never to put the CD back again. Just a small word in favor of the double cases which open outwards. The tray lies slightly lower meaning there is a bit more room for the insert. This is particularly useful if the insert is quite thick. Otherwise I agree with all the comments made.
@drymice500
5 ай бұрын
6:16 Silly me thought “eco” in “eco pack” stood for economic, as in cheap.
@zachcarstensen
3 жыл бұрын
The new BIS eco-packs are the worst. I have stopped buying BIS as a result. Not worth it for $20 a disk.
@KarenMiranda-tn1pi
2 жыл бұрын
All my Shinedown cds are broken and I just replaced the case and got broken again I changed the case again for the fourth time and my new Shinedown cd got broken in the mail and I was pissed off I get what you are saying
@brucknerian9664
3 жыл бұрын
I have a few binders with a zipper; holds about 30/40 Cds--and their booklets; so I threw away all the plastic cases and gave lots of fishes indigestion.
@pancrase9048
2 жыл бұрын
Why couldn't the music companies distribute their CDs in dvd cases? Instead we still use those stupid jewel cases that makes u wanna crescent kick em into a trash can everytime the hinge snaps.
@dgmelvin
3 жыл бұрын
And the thin plastic wrapping on the outside. Nearly impossible to remove. Some have "tabs" that no one can actually use to open the plastic. I use a knife to score them. Why do they wrap them in plastic anyway? It is a waste of plastic and money.
@dennischiapello7243
3 жыл бұрын
I have a little plastic gizmo made specifically to score the plastic wrapping. It has Tower Records' logo on it. It's one of the few things I own that I NEVER allow myself to misplace.
@tmorganriley
2 жыл бұрын
My solution: a seam-ripper (as used for sewing): designed to safely cut in very small tight spaces with minimal-to-no-collateral-damage to the surrounding surfaces.
@cdavidlake2
2 жыл бұрын
These are all reasons why I finally had enough and abandoned physical media altogether.
@dsammut8831
2 жыл бұрын
Second full visit of this priceless Talk. Hilarious, Dave!
@barrygray8903
3 жыл бұрын
I’m in total sympathy with your frustrations here. I keep a few spare single and multi CD jewel cases on hand to replace any that come apart or break. Which leads to anther complaint - it is pretty much impossible to purchase singleton jewel cases. I needed to replace a 5 CD case recently and had to order a quantity of 10. Everyone needs 10 spare empty multi CD jewel cases. 😖 Same issue with jewel cases in general. The 5 CD case for Gunter Wand’s Beethoven symphony cycle came apart when I opened it and could not be reassembled. Shame on RCA. Ridiculous and frustrating.
@Bucky58
2 жыл бұрын
Watch out for the foam spacers that some box sets insert between discs. Over time mine have disintegrated and stuck to the discs.
@EthanMatthes
3 жыл бұрын
Andy Rooney / Lewis Black time! My question is how a collector stores this stuff without an overflow room?
@marknewkirk4322
3 жыл бұрын
In a van down by the river.
@matteocortigiani118
3 жыл бұрын
The jewel case is the worst possible CD storage solution, except for all the others.
@phamthanh4785
3 жыл бұрын
You should make a sequel to this. CD packaging is ridiculous nowadays, especially the boxset, where the paper envelopes just get tore apart easily, and dust always find its way in. And it annoys me that a lot of good recordings can only be found in large or very large boxes. I recall asking my brother to order about 10 CDs for me on Amazon, and 7 of them ended up getting broken. He ended up having to send them back and wait for another week for the new ones to arrive.
@morrigambist
3 жыл бұрын
My pet peeve sits before me: The big DG Argerich box. It appears to be a perfect cube, but it isn't. My copy arrived with a bumped corner, and I was lucky to get the top back on even once. The last time I opened it I was unable to get the top back on and it tore up before I noticed the box was not square. Nicely played, DG!
@SocrateSatrapoulos
3 жыл бұрын
I relate way too much on everything you said
@walkure48
3 жыл бұрын
I have a used Wagner at the Met box staring at me which I haven't touched in ages for several reasons. Yes, they're a royal pain in the ass to get out, and ultimately I'm not convinced that the product is good enough to go through all that trouble. Sure, there's that "Golden Age" aura, the opportunity to hear great singers in live performances, but those performances were often engraved in scratchy acetate (at least in the 30's and 40's), and longer operas were subjected to those brutal Met Matinee cuts as well as tempos that made the performance fit into a specific broadcast time slot. The point is that while there are a few performances that I wouldn't mind listening to again, are they really worth the effort of having to use a screw driver and WD40 to get them out?
@josepholeary3286
3 жыл бұрын
This is really shocking! I wonder will you mention the sponges that used to be with some cds and that ended up stuck to the cds.
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
I already have.
@cartologist
3 жыл бұрын
The jewel cases started out thick, but starting in the 90s, they used thinner plastic at the same time they released thousands of discs of indifferently mastered music.
@SunriseFireberry
3 жыл бұрын
Packing problem'll be both solved & made obsolete by having all classics available for digital download and nuthin' but. Whether that is the perfect solution is another Q.
@jerrygennaro7587
3 жыл бұрын
One point that rarely seems to be mentioned (re: Downloading) is the additional cost of new equipment needed to be purchased to "upgrade" a conventional dedicated stereo system (Disc Player/Amplifier/Speakers) to the download era (NAS, Computer, Wireless Table, Back-up Drives, and Network Player).
@johns9624
3 жыл бұрын
Found myself saying 'Amen' about 50 times during your rant. And to add to the annoyance of broken plastic thingies that are intended to keep the cd inside the case, there's the alternatives I've run across over the years. They cover the extremes from totally useless to gripping the cd so tight you almost have to break it to get it out.
@wayneforbes4145
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, Dave. I agree totally with your comments about CD packaging. I would add my frustration at trying to open the plastic wrap around the CDs in less than 5 minutes. Some companies put tabs that you can use to partially open the wrap, but many do not, so unless I have a special device to open the wrap, I am usually picking away at it until it finally gives. And then I can deal with the broken jewel case. :) thanks as always, Dave!
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
Thank got for boxcutters and Exacto-knives (of which I have several).
@MisterPathetique
3 жыл бұрын
My most recent acquisition has been David Zinman's Schumann cycle with the Tonhalle Zurich - based on your own recommendation! - and guess what? The box came to completely crushed! Of course. By the way, I'm now wondering, what's your opinion on Kirill Petrenko's Tchaikovsky 6, aside from the terrible packaging?
@DavesClassicalGuide
3 жыл бұрын
Haven't heard it yet, and I may never...
@stevenmsinger
3 жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more, David. That's actually why I transitioned to almost 100% digital. I downloaded the essentials of my collection and got a good streaming service. It is so much better. In fact, I find that if there's something in my physical collection I want to hear that isn't already in my digital collection or readily available through a streaming service, I usually just skip it. It's not worth the hassle of physical CDs. Half the time the playing surface of the CD is scratched anyway. Digital music is not perfect and I sometimes miss having a product to cherish and pet, but digital is so much better.
@Don-md6wn
3 жыл бұрын
Half the time the surface of the CD is scratched? You must have really bad luck because I've encountered maybe 5 CDs that wouldn't play properly out of thousands purchased over the last 30+ years. I must admit I don't inspect them for scratches because if they play properly I don't really care.
@stevenmsinger
3 жыл бұрын
@@Don-md6wn It's especially bad with CDs that come in paper sleeves.
@stevepillemann9373
3 жыл бұрын
I owned a recording of Wagner's Ring from the Hallé Orchestra sent to me from Amazon, England. I had to send it back because all 17 CDs were awfully scratched. That was too bad.
@s28101
3 жыл бұрын
And now we need good music in extraordinary performances, in splendid sound and silly packings 😌
@alexandrosprotopapas
3 жыл бұрын
The old days another problem was the bronzing of cd's . The labels Hyperion and Unicorn , the latter does non exist nowadays, had the drawback. The inconvenient packaging is a real problem , but that was a loss of money.
@VoceCorale
3 жыл бұрын
@Can'tFightThisFeeling I can confirm, I had some "bronzed" Hyperion CDs and they replaced them no problem. Great customer service.
@nihilistlemon1995
Жыл бұрын
And this is why you use Qobuz
@bobgraf7510
3 жыл бұрын
Go digital. Get rid of CD's altogether. Problem solved.
@im2801ok
3 жыл бұрын
Spot-on! I replaced my whole cd collection (some 2500 of them, at least) with a digital library stored on a 4-Hard Drive RAID array. Of course, once achieved, it also grew immeasurably, because suddenly you can get almost everything you crave - and usually, considerably cheaper. Also, finding your specific tiny piece of a work is a no-brainer - you just use a search app! And there are some excellent app-based music players and even some very good music library apps. And have I already mentioned that all this immense collection takes just so much of a little space? (Currently holding the equivalent of about 8,500 CDs). Of course, Dave has gotten himself impossibly overflowed, poor guy, so moving to digits obviously poses a mightily daunting challenge for him. But for the rest of us - go digital, by all means, so that you'll be able to keep on listening AND stay sane!
@im2801ok
3 жыл бұрын
@Teemu H. I warmly recommend Presto Classical as a huge virtual record store. Attractive pricing (and many sales) and a seemingly inexhaustible inventory. You can usually choose between FLAC and MP3. Take note, though, that covers and booklet are not always available.
@johns9624
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps they've solved it by now, but one of my early downloads had a split-second blip between two tracks that were supposed to continue without interruption. The response to my complaint to the seller was that it's rare, but does happen and they're working on it.
@bobgraf7510
3 жыл бұрын
@@im2801ok In this day and age, I don't know why anyone would still use CDs. it's dinosaur technology. I am using a streaming service called Primephonic that has an enormous catalogue of music - everything I would want to listen to by every ensemble, artist and conductor worth hearing. Using bluetooth, I steam in my car, and even at home using a $30 device that can play through the aux port on my 40 year old amplifier. A lot of the collection can be streamed with 24 bit FLAC encoding which is CD quality resolution. And all this for about 12 bucks a month.
@mike-williams
3 жыл бұрын
@Teemu H. Skip iTunes and their vile formats and criminally lax metadata. Go for a store that has lossless (or even 24bit downloads) like Qobuz, Bandcamp, etc.
@Don-md6wn
3 жыл бұрын
Just got a couple of Amazon packages with CDs delivered. Brand new Sibelius disc of The Tempest from Ondine ($18) arrives with 4 separate cracks on the outer case and the bottom left corner tab chipped off. It was shipped in soft packaging with a small box set so the single disc was bearing the weight. I find Amazon's 3rd party sellers take much greater care in packing their items, probably because they fear negative customer feedback while Amazon doesn't really care.
@olegroslak852
3 жыл бұрын
Saw your reply on The Tempest talk, but thought I'd reply here. I get so frustrated by Amazon delivery of cracked cases that I often order two immediately in the hopes that one of them won't have cracks all over the surface. A shame, too, that Ondine had the sense to package up all of Segerstam's Sibelius symphonies, AND the violin concerto, but couldn't include The Tempest and The Oceanides in the same damn box! At least box sets reliably ship without big dings in them (well, for the most part, anyway). It used to be that Amazon would ship cd jewel cases in bigger boxes with large air filled wrap that prevented them from rattling around inside the box. Those were better days.
@Don-md6wn
3 жыл бұрын
@@olegroslak852 I have just accepted damaged jewel cases as inevitable at this point, but it's ridiculous to pay full price for a new item and get broken packaging. Amazon leaves no option for feedback other than return the whole item, and as you noted they are out of stock on the disc now. I tried to leave negative feedback on the item, but they don't even give the option of telling them the package is broken but the item is OK. The only way to transmit that feedback is as part of a request to return the entire item, which tells me they don't really give a damn about feedback. Trying to contact a live human being there is all but impossible. Their online system says either return it for a refund or take one of these substitute items, which included recordings I've already purchased. Even if they were in stock and a replacement was an option, the next one they sent would probably be broken too. I looked into buying a bunch of empty jewel cases. They were $30 for 60, but then the shipping is $17 so I passed on that. I have a bunch of old CDs in other musical genres that I never listen to, so I took an intact front piece off one of them and swapped it out with the broken one on The Tempest. I hope you persist in looking for that recording as it really is spectacular, both musically and sonically. Any third party seller on Amazon that packed things the way Amazon does on direct sales would get so much negative feedback that they would get thrown off the platform. You can give very precise feedback to 3rd party sellers via Amazon's site and when I need to do that they typically respond within minutes and always take care of the issue.
@frankgyure3154
3 жыл бұрын
As yourself and everyone else making comments,the packaging of CD’s has been a challenge. The question to everyone;what would be the IDEAL CD packaging. Of course,I think most CD are bought online and you have to deal with the mail packaging. In terms of the plastic jewel case you treated it with humor but,most respectfully,plastics are a ecological nightmare and I would advocate getting rid of them. That would leave us with paper/cardboard package but I have received some with cloth innner cases for the CD. On top of that,if we order CD through the mail maybe we can request cardboard boxes instead of the paper envelopes even with the plastic liner protection. I wonder if anyone else will make an attempt at describing the PERFECT CD PACKAGE.
@stddisclaimer8020
3 жыл бұрын
When was the last time CDs came with that square sheet of foam packaged on top of the disc (25-30 years ago?). The best advice back then was to throw out the foam because it might adversely affect the CD coating, and also create an awful mess by disintegrating over time into small pieces, accompanied by a fine powder. Well, just received a pre-owned 2 CD set through the mail, foam sheet never removed, in exactly that condition. The seller’s outrageously unbelievable response was that he inspected the set before shipment.
@markmiller3713
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, he inspected it and didn't care.
@stddisclaimer8020
3 жыл бұрын
@@markmiller3713 I think it was that he didn't care to inspect it.
@markmiller3713
3 жыл бұрын
That could be as well!
@VoceCorale
3 жыл бұрын
That happened to me as well! That foam was horrible.
@bbailey7818
2 жыл бұрын
Best rant ever! And one of the worst traps with a double cd jewel case is when you first get it you can never be sure whether the hinge is inside or outside and if you guess wrong you can break the whole thing. CD booklets, esp opera sets with thick librettos and specifically earlier EMI sets. The binding is so flimsy that with ONE use, the book literally comes apart and pages flutter to the floor.
@hwelf11
3 жыл бұрын
Those plastic tabs... you might be better off if they do break off while you're trying to jam an oversize booklet which has already been gouged to shreds from attempting to squeeze it back into the "jewel" case. And those cardboard strait-jackets the Met provided for that otherwise terrific Verdi at the Med box (same issue with their Wagner box). But you have not met up with the masterpiece of idiotic packaging if you've never dealt with a collection issued by Columbia in 2001 called "Thelonious Monk: the Columbia Years." At first it looks harmless enough, with a handsome cardboard slipcase, but when you remove the discs, you find them enclosed in a wallet-style holder which is folded into 3 panels to supposedly hold each of the 3 CDs. But- the way the genius designers have chosen to "secure" the discs consists of 3 foam rubber spindles "designed " to fit into the center holes of the discs. These spindles are so shallow that they hardly exceed the thickness of the discs themselves, so that the moment you remove the wallet holder the discs are almost guaranteed to slip out, or if you pull them out a little more quickly, go flying all over the room. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to get this off my chest. I feel better already
@avihalevi5042
3 жыл бұрын
Hi David: I found my self chuckling and nodding as your talk proceeded. Thanks for the Kvetch and humorous rant . another complaint is the CD itself. It is a 16 bit crappy device, we also have DVDs which are 96 kHz 24 bit devices. Almost everyone has a DVD player Given similar price points music could be put on a DVD disc which in theory would play with better fidelity and has the plus of storing more channels......without getting into technical details we could have better sound...but why perpetuate the rip off...I come by this complaint being am ex audio and music reviewer....even better yet , the concert or recording session itself could be stored as a "live event" ..it is my not so secret wish over the years...you can hear the difference...but if the original recording is junk...you will hear even more junk...such are the double edged sword of improvements..thanks for the music and fun !!!!
@alasdairthomas5603
3 жыл бұрын
I actually quite like the BIS ‘Ecopak’ packaging - it’s a pleasing echo of gatefold LPs, and artwork/photography looks good on it. The paper inner sleeves are quite difficult to get in/out though. I totally agree on jewel cases. I too keep a stack for replacement purposes! I also get BBC Music Magazine and keep their CDs and booklets in a CD wallet to save shelf space, which is a useful way of generating spare jewel cases! It’s just as well, because the spare jewel cases you get from Amazon are even cheaper and crappier than the ones you get with the CDs in the first place!
@davidjanero3110
3 жыл бұрын
Echoes of the marketing differentiator / gimmick in some late-1950s RCA LP opera boxes (e.g., Tozzi/Peters/London/Leinsdorf Nozze di Figaro and Milanov/Elias/Warren/DI Stefano Forza) featuring a heavy hinged lid that eventually separated form the rest of the box and a "distinctive" metal clip protruding from the front of the box that prohibited storing the sets vertically among other discs-- the preferred LP storage method. Ergonomics, product longevity, and consumer convenience be dammed.
@MrKurtank
3 жыл бұрын
Dear Dave, please take pleasure that, to me, this video didn't feel like 20 minutes and it was over too soon! Naturally your other videos sometimes have me object to your findings of the subject, but this one is without argument or disagreement. Thank you. Charge on!
@sorono3
3 жыл бұрын
I like the way Mobile Fidelity packages their SACDs: In an Cardboard replica mini LP gatefold jacket witch an anti-scratch inner sleeve for the SACD. The gatefold is just little bit bigger than a normal jewel case. Caveat: Mobile Fidelity doesn't do classical music (anymore).
@michaelhughes1504
3 жыл бұрын
I have two really wonderfully crafted solid oak CD shelves made by a local artisan, each of which will hold 850 CDs. I bought these back around 1990 or so. They were engineered to hold standard jewel cases with about 1/8"-1/4" clearance at the top of each shelf. My big beef nowadays is that with the advent of boxed sets, the heights of the boxes is just enough so that they don't fit into my shelf. A royal PITA 😡
@mogmason6920
3 жыл бұрын
Them butterfly sleeves similar to that Met Verdi box are quite a novel idea, when they are right bloody size! Problem is, they are always too small for the disc! If they were made a bit (a couple mm) wider, all you would have to do is squeeze the sides and the disc would fall out in your hand nicely! I also have a Bernstein recording, on which the packaging is advertised “carbon neutral entertainment.” It looks like a digipak, but the inner tray is made out of compressed “egg box” material. It’s also biodegradable so it will probably disintegrate in a few decades time, leaving the disc covered in nasty gunk!
@WolfGratz
3 жыл бұрын
To paraphrase Senator Paine in Mr Smith "Every word that middle-aged man says is the truth". For what it's worth btw Cinemaphiles may have it as bad if not worse as in the cardboard casing for The African Queen which in some cases was too tight to remove the actual case at all or the notorious Criterion All About Eve - they were just lucky Bette Davis is long gone as the remaining whatsit fell apart with each removal. We are dealing with idiots!.
@whistlerfred6579
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! We needed this!
@garysmith8455
3 жыл бұрын
Hello David! Enjoying all your video presentations. Thank you! While watching this one, I was beginning to think about the recorded products of the Berliner Philharmoniker! And then, you actually held one up (O: You really had me chuckling. But, as a 5 year subscriber to the live Digital Concert Hall series, I have purchased and received a number of the recordings. One just arrived a few weeks ago. For SURE, they are premium pieces, and as an audiophile, I appreciate the BluRay presentations. HOWEVER, you are spot on with them being a coffee table nicknack (O: Their odd sizing has me keeping them out, or stuffed - sticking out between the jeweled case CD library shelves. Thanks again, and I will have some comments to add about your Baroque Schlep series / box set recordings.
@jlaurson
3 жыл бұрын
Oh, the Cleveland packaging takes the cake. Reminds me of the promo versions of major labels that would send out previews in these monstrosities. Working at Tower Records I could tell good plastic in a jewel case from bad just by once holding the CD in my hands.
@BVcello
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! Some packaging is simply atrocious. Not to speak of the sometimes abominable artwork of some of the DIY labels (RCO Live), but that's another matter. Couldn't find a 25$ hamburger in Europe though...
@dennischiapello7243
3 жыл бұрын
Jewel cases have been infuriating me for years, so I really enjoyed your rant about them and the problematic alternatives, even though I'm just thankful for anything that's not a jewel case. However, I have a couple of Chandos CDs in redesigned jewel cases, and these really are excellent. The addressed EVERY issue, even ones I hadn't thought of. Even if these were for sale as empties, though, they wouldn't easily accommodate the packing material from standard jewel cases, though it could be done. But bottom line: still not eco-friendly.
@songsmith31a
3 жыл бұрын
So much to recognise and agree with. I've been impressed by the packaging received from small labels, one very recently from a company (that records a local UK folk singer) which was a two-fold rigid sleeve that does a good job illustrating and protecting the content. There's arguably no perfect system of the containment and protection in completion of a CD, but the move away from vulnerable plastic has to be endorsed in today's world.
@brucemiller5356
2 жыл бұрын
thanks for doing this. i have so many jewel boxes that are crapped, and i am going to have to use rubber bands to hold the parts together
@matthewv789
3 жыл бұрын
The DG one looks like the kind that are supposed to snap on? But then they’re hard to snap off, like you have to bend and pull the cd out of shape to get it off. The Cleveland one I already commented in the past that the cover looks like it’s for a corporate presentation.
@josecarmona9168
3 жыл бұрын
I have suffered a lot of discs with slightly broken boxes (jewell) or slightly damaged boxes (paper) until I decided to send back any product which is not completely fine, even though the damage is a little scratch in the corner of the box. Perhaps is quite weird but if I pay my perfect money, why have I to get a not perfect disc?
@AlexMadorsky
3 жыл бұрын
I actually prefer buying near-mint used CDs to new - because somebody has already broken the seal on the dreaded Jewel box for me! So easy to crack Jewel cases, to scar them when opening, for the hinge mechanism to break on the spine so the top and bottom separate. The Jewel case's role in harming the environment isn't that that of say, computer e-waste or Styrofoam, but it is real enough. My favorite modern CDs are the ones with easy to remove plastic and sturdy, high-grade cardstock packaging, as long as it is sturdy and sans paper sleeve and sans slidey-mechanism. I truly do not need to pay premium prices to elite orchestra house labels for allegedly-bespoke CD packaging. I have yet to encounter a perfected iteration of CD packaging, no one has really figured out an ideal system as far as I can tell. One of the many reasons I generally prefer either LPs or Spotify.
@matthewv789
3 жыл бұрын
This is great information because I am figuring out how to package and ship CDs for a possible release, a 2Cd set no less, and I want to know what to do not to irritate you if I ever send you any. :)
@bendingcaesar65
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, THANK YOU! CD packaging has been appalling for decades now: ever since they invented those double-disk slim boxes that force you to pry the disk out with force.
@davesmusictank1
3 жыл бұрын
I know exactly what you mean. It is frustrating and just as bad with my jazz CDs!!
@Runicen
3 жыл бұрын
It's always escaped my understanding how it's "eco friendly" to package CDs in cases that encourage waste, damage, and loss leading to the need to purchase replacements. I mean, before, I just bought a CD once and that was the end of the story. Now, Amazon has to send me three before I get one that's not destroyed in transit and then I need to buy a replacement half a year down the road. Going to hazard a guess it's not a net benefit to the environment.
@17derwanderer
3 жыл бұрын
I must add another trend that annoys me greatly: CD envelopes with glue. Boxes with flimsy paper sleeves or envelopes are okay, simple and practical. But in some boxes they use CD envelopes WITH GLUE!!! So, 1) you have to open the envelope, the paper gets all torn and your fingers and everything you touch becomes sticky, 2) you remove the CD, the glue from the flap sticks into it and you have to clean it before playing, 3) as you put the sleeve back in the box, glue that traveled around glues it into the other CD sleeves in the box, 4) the next time you listen to the CD you have to go through 1), 2) and 3) all over gain. So as soon as you listen once to your immaculate new purchase it gets all torn and sticky! And what's the point??? Do they think that you might want to POST YOUR CD???
@tterrace
3 жыл бұрын
The worst jewel case I've come across is the kind that contained the 6-disc Previn Vaughan Williams symphony cycle on Sony/RCA. Though only as thick as the old original 2-disc boxes, it contains three double-sided hinged wings. Removing the discs inevitably results in the whole contraption disassembling itself into separate pieces that leave you mystified as to how to get them back together. They should have included a schematic.
@johnfowler7660
3 жыл бұрын
Did you buy this from Amazon? I bought the 5 CD Wand Beethoven Symphony cycle on Sony/RCA and it came in a 5 CD plastic box that I returned unopened. I then looked on HB Direct and ArkivMusic websites and discovered that they were selling it packaged in a cardboard box with cardboard jackets (I contacted both to confirm this). I wonder if only Amazon is selling Sony boxed sets in these sucky plastic boxes.
@tterrace
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnfowler7660 I bought it in 2017 through Amazon but the seller was importcds.
@johnfowler7660
3 жыл бұрын
@@tterrace HB Direct was able to supply me with the 5 CD Wand Beethoven Symphonies set on Sony/RCA in a cardboard box with cardboard jackets. I contacted them two days ago. ArkivMusic said they could get the cardboard box version, but it is currently on backorder. I returned the 5 CD plastic case Wand Beethoven set unopened to Amazon last week.
@tterrace
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnfowler7660 I just checked my Wand/Beethoven set I got direct from Amazon last year. Same crappy box, but I hadn't picked up on the fact they were burned discs, since they're the kind whose color doesn't give them away. Other Amazon reviewers mention that copies they'd recently bought directly from Sony were the same.
@kend.6797
3 жыл бұрын
This had to be said, so thank you for doing this video. I have stopped buying product from some labels for some of the reasons mentioned (i.e. BIS).
@joelvalkila
3 жыл бұрын
I hate digipaks where they have glued the plastic ”CD holder” into the carton but the glue has vanished, dried, etc. What happens is that the plastic holder falls off and the whole packaging becomes useless as it no longer holds together...
@eugenebraig413
3 жыл бұрын
I appreciated the biological references to spatulate fingers and lizards.
@juandavidramirezquintero4587
3 жыл бұрын
Shame on me. i've destroyed all the tiny paper bags which envelop the cds of cpe bach hanssler edition
@robinsaunders8272
3 жыл бұрын
I've just bought three four CD cases for a box set where every case was bust. On the plus side the seller gave me my money back and let me keep the set.
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