Regarding voyager, they did to there credit try to hire a native american consultant to help build chakota's culture. To there fault they picked a known charleton because his name sounded american indian-y who has since been publicly called out by the head of native american relations for perpetuating a number of really racist assumptions under the guise of expertise. They tried but the failure was absolutely horrific.
@couragetheactor
4 жыл бұрын
As a Native Trek fan, this was VERY well done. Subscribed
@Trekspertise
4 жыл бұрын
Awesome, thank you! Check out our interview with Kiowa Sci-Fi writer, Russel Bates. The video is called "The Serpent's Tooth."
@stsars13
8 жыл бұрын
Maybe Chek was mixed dude. I'm Native America and mixed of three different tribes. It's not a crime to be of mix blood now and I bet it wouldn't be in the future.
@duaneelliott5194
8 жыл бұрын
it's nation not tribes (in english)
@TheCanterlonian
8 жыл бұрын
It can be "tribe" depending on what you're talking about.
@hessanscounty3592
8 жыл бұрын
The word tribe can be used to refer to subdivisions within a nation that are larger than a band like the original Latin meaning of the word, though many nations generally avoid this because of the negative connotation that has been given to the word over history.
@TheCanterlonian
8 жыл бұрын
Bryonfionn "Tribe" is actually considered a good word that is embraced by some of the Cherokee. I am only 1/8th Cherokee though so I might be wrong.
@TheCanterlonian
8 жыл бұрын
Bryonfionn Well, 1/8th on both sides of my family. Does that make it 2/8ths or just 1/8th?
@timothypage252
8 жыл бұрын
As for Chakotay, why NOT give him a mixed heritage, just like everyone else on Earth. I'm surprised that NEW ethnic identities haven't arisen throughout ALL of humanity, on Earth, on its myriad colonies... You get the point.
@RoonMian
8 жыл бұрын
That's something I liked about Frank Herbert's Dune universe where Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam merged into one religion.
@Djarra
7 жыл бұрын
I think they went for the lets make up a people for him so as not to accidently insult anyone, then accidently insult them. To be fair in the episode 'Human Error' where Seven is interacting with a holodeck Chakotay the holochuckles is an inaccurate mix of things partly I think to echo Leah Brahmas and partly for the writers to put their hands up and say 'yes we got it wrong'
@Plantsandtoyhorses
7 жыл бұрын
Maybe what he was alluding to was that in the development of Chakotay as a character, they did so on the fly sort of. Where an episode would be another in the development of the character but they had to come up with some actions or dialog in his heritage to explain things, but in doing so they mixed up his culture with each successive attempt? Though I always got the sense that in the ST universe, post-Federation founding there could be mixed native people because bigotry went out in the society after first contact.
@genmaicha.lapsang
5 жыл бұрын
I think they a few times. There were some really early episodes of TNG that had new ethnicities appearing on some of the colony worlds. I think there was one in ENT that did too. But you're right. In that it does seem kind of odd.
@nguyentuition1092
3 жыл бұрын
That's something for a different sci Fi, that misses the point of Trek and native representation of Trek.
@TheMikeSwitch
9 жыл бұрын
"my tribe never used arrows, and I've never shot one" Tuvok: "This is for me"
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+TheMikeSwitch Playing with the audience on these things is the best thing the writers can do, sometimes. And these kinds of jokes and comments is what makes modern American Indian films so cool.
@hydrolito
2 жыл бұрын
What tribe never advanced to bow and arrows?
@LoriCiani
8 жыл бұрын
I may be wrong but I always thought that Chakotay, as a child, had a head stuffed with his father's studies into native cultures. Wasn't it mentioned that he was often taken on field trips with his father and that it bored him stupid? As a youth he rebeled against his father, his culture and left for Starfleet Academy. Now, all he has of his father is the jumble of knowledge. With age comes the regret of not listening. As with my mother, her mother made cures, potions, furniture polishes. She tried to teach my mother all she knew, but my mother forgot everything. She now wishes she had payed attention.
@Robovski
8 жыл бұрын
+LoriCiani Chakotay can just be a mix-up of memories and personal research. His faith may be genuine but not representative of true ''tribal'' belief.
@jeremyjohnson8844
6 жыл бұрын
Very good point.
@hydrolito
2 жыл бұрын
Some people didn't even teach their children how to cook and clean and their child continued going to parent and grandparent to get their clothes washed as an adult until they got married and had a spouse do it.
@ericstaples7220
9 жыл бұрын
We see white people with Asian tattoos all of the time. I don't think it's unrealistic for a future Mayan to have a native Californian face tattoo. In fact, it makes sense for him to draw on various cultures from his native continent, just as we all do.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Eric Staples You know what? This is the BEST explanation of Chakotay's tattoo I've read. This makes the best and coolest sense. Nice work =)
@andrewarias1673
9 жыл бұрын
Eric Staples I think, we should also take into consideration, that the indigenous peoples are centuries in our future. It is possible that with WWIII supposedly wiping out swaths of Mankind (plus the earlier Eugenics War) that it is possible that some indigenous nations united since WWIII. Which is why Chakotay seems like such an odd amalgamation of so many groups. It is an excuse for why the writers dropped the ball and made Chakotay represent so many cultural ideas. George Takei stated that John Cho felt apprehension about taking the role of Sulu due to him being Korean-American and Sulu being Japanese-American, but Takei told him that Sulu somewhat represented Asia as a whole (even though he was specifically Japanese). Maybe Chakotay is descended from a Central American group but also gives representation to all native peoples of the Americas? Just could be a reason why he seems all over the place.
@andrewarias1673
9 жыл бұрын
Eric Staples I think, we should also take into consideration, that the indigenous peoples are centuries in our future. It is possible that with WWIII supposedly wiping out swaths of Mankind (plus the earlier Eugenics War) that it is possible that some indigenous nations united since WWIII. Which is why Chakotay seems like such an odd amalgamation of so many groups. It is an excuse for why the writers dropped the ball and made Chakotay represent so many cultural ideas. George Takei stated that John Cho felt apprehension about taking the role of Sulu due to him being Korean-American and Sulu being Japanese-American, but Takei told him that Sulu somewhat represented Asia as a whole (even though he was specifically Japanese). Maybe Chakotay is descended from a Central American group but also gives representation to all native peoples of the Americas? Just could be a reason why he seems all over the place.
@MULTIgamingBROSuk
9 жыл бұрын
define "white". you mean caucasian. white is a skin, the latter is a race. you would do well to remember this.
@ericstaples7220
9 жыл бұрын
MULTIgamingBROSuk Why do you assume I wasn't talking about people with white skin in my post, opposed to a race? Also, white race specifically refers to people of European descent, while Caucasian could just mean Asian people with light skin. Caucasian wouldn't serve my post at all, as I attempted to separate White people from Asians as an extreme example, but thanks for the suggestion.
@DrownedInExile
9 жыл бұрын
I think you're overplaying the "white saviour" meme regarding Wesley. The Traveler advised him to have faith in their (natives) ability to solve their own problems, and he walked away. The natives came up with their own solution to the conflict without any input from Wesley.
@2bituser569
5 жыл бұрын
DrownedInExile sounds like the opposite of the white savior trope.
@captainzac24
8 жыл бұрын
The end of this video really makes me want a sci-fi about native Americians in space
@duaneelliott5194
8 жыл бұрын
+am board like relly board yeah wouldn't want some dumbass to watch something to smart for it to figure out
@josephjos9843
8 жыл бұрын
Consider this theory as to the cultural heritage of Chakotay and why his beliefs and practices seem to be a blending of what we perceive to be many historical traditions. For indigenous culture to exist all the way into the 23rd century perhaps there was a blending and a coming together of many cultures at a point in time. With what is happening today at Standing Rock with all the nations coming together this explanation would seem plausible.
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
+Nick Joseph This is a good explanation.
@Marveryn
8 жыл бұрын
to piggie back on this concept we don't know how the native american culture survive ww3 and the warlords of that lead to the dark ages before the federation. maybe a few culture diverse tribe join together to support each other and pass each other believes this blend then created a mix culture that was no longer one unique group but multiple groups that by the time of chakotay he was dealing with several cultures. In fact giving how u.s. is such a melting pot we see some of these things happening now in a lesser extent with other sub groups.
@NotContinuum
8 жыл бұрын
This is pretty much what I was thinking, but I would also add the idea that 100-200 years of space travel (depending on if you look at TOS or TNG/VOY) could have a significant factor on the changes of a culture or multiple cultures. It's not hard to imagine different native american cultures recognizing their common desire to escape a planet where they feel under-represented and pack themselves into a space ship so as to protect some of their culture. In that time, working together, it wouldn't be surprising that those different cultures would start to borrow from each other and become a bit more homogeneous. This, however, would not explain the TOS and TAS treatments of the subject. That was just an attempt to use Native Americans as a backdrop rather than an honest exploration and proper representation of the peoples.
@magnificentfailure2390
9 жыл бұрын
My wife is actually quite fond of "The Paradise Syndrome". She's a member of the Little River Band of Ottowa Indians. I don't think she feels as if Kirk is the "White Savior" in the story, so much as he is the hapless victim of the Preservers, much like Miramanee and her people. I think her biggest gripe with any of the characters is Spock and his condescension towards the tribal people, and at that she doesn't really hold it against him, as he is just being his usual Spock self. Neither of us can get past Edward Everett Horton, though. If ever there was a more distinctive voice of our twisted youth and to have him appear as anybody on Star Trek. I always expect him to say something about "Wassamatta U" at some point in the story.
@DrLynch2009
9 жыл бұрын
There is no white savior stereotype in Apocalypto.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
DrLynch2009 Have you seen the end of the film?
@DrLynch2009
9 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise Off course i did. Jawar Paw return to the jungle with his wife and newborn, the home from where they been taken by force, as a symbol of rejection from both the declining mayan city-states and the newcomers that where mentioned as harbingers of destruction early in the movie.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+DrLynch2009 So, let me explain what I saw in the film and the white savior narrative element shows up surprisingly at the end. The movie erroneously depicts Maya culture. It fails, largely. What we are seeing in the film is cultural gibberish. In fact, the only to elements that hold up are the weapons and perhaps the language (a modern version of the Maya language). The movie openly depicts a division of classes and general malaise and erosion of morality in the collapsing Maya city states. These are projections from a Euro-based society onto the old Maya society. Filmmakers projected a Euro-based morality system onto the Maya in the film. The "collapse" likely didn't look like that nor did society likely devolve along those seams. The Maya are very different than what was depicted in this film...the religion, the hierarchical structure...its hard to imagine the collapse of a society without knowing where the natural divisions are and Mr. Gibson and his team inserted societal divisions from the societies that they grew up in. In short, modern Western societies. All this is a setup to treat the Maya as an analogy for our own modern global civilization. Filmmakers are saying very simply that as society becomes more decadent, more lavish and more power hungry, leaders become more corrupt and whole classes of people become morally bankrupt. Again, more European cultural expectations in there. The only ones who are not corrupt morally in the film are the simple village folk out in the country (represented by Jaguar Paw and his family) and the Spaniards bringing Christianity to the savages at the end of the film. The film depicts the "collapse" of Maya civilization as savage. The Christian faith is purposefully evoked as a cure to that supposed savagery. The symbolism is not lost at all with the filmmakers. They chose that symbolism on purpose. Christ is depicted as a source of civilization for the Europeans. Bringing Christianity to the failing Maya city states is a method of salvation, of the white man "saving the savage in the wilderness". All of these elements are common place in the white savior narratives, old and new. You see it in modern films like Dances with Wolves and Avatar.
@erentheca
9 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise Your reach exceeds your grasp here. I won't question your accumulated expertise on Mayan culture, one that, by your analysis, the filmmakers failed to acquire, but you are also projecting motivations on the filmmakers which you can't possibly know, unless there is some behind-the-scenes footage you would care to mention. The white savior narrative requires ... a narrative. In this instance, the appearance of the Spaniards is altogether too brief to make up more than a thematic footnote. They do not rescue Jaguar Paw or his family, he accomplishes this himself. His struggle against his hunters occupies the most significant portions of the film. True, the Spaniards provide a distraction which allows his final escape, but in that respect they are no more heroic than a meteor strike, a tornado, an erupting volcano, or the solar eclipse which "saved his life" earlier in the film.
@Ciscospm
9 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise I really would like to see what a mayan would have to say about the film
@captainzac24
8 жыл бұрын
To be fair to the original series the crew of the enterprise treat all primitive cultures the same way; assuming that they wouldn't understand and not telling them about space.
@Sammy-qx5mx
8 жыл бұрын
except for that one episode when they become gangsters from the 1930's XD
@leroyrockwell4837
8 жыл бұрын
And don't forget the Prime Directive too, they were a pre-warp civilization.
@TeeBar420
8 жыл бұрын
In the gangster episode they interfered because the federation had already taught the aliens about spaceflight and left behind "the book" that shaped their gangster society.
@heyyouman12
7 жыл бұрын
it's just a quick way 'Trekspertise' can emphasise a point you know? I'm sure he's aware of how the writers treat primitive peoples, the Prime Directive, etc. But by showing that scene & explaining it- 'Trekspertise' drills the general concept of his argument into our heads; Call it.. 'embellishing' the truth with the hope that the viewer/reader isn't as knowledgeable as the writer, to the point where the viewer/reader could dismiss the 'evidence' & encompassing argument
@williamozier918
8 жыл бұрын
A) All of this video's points about Indian in Star Trek are spot on! B) I have a fan apology theory to justify the reductionism of American Indian culture in Star Trek: Remember the native american culture we see in Star Trek is a native american culture that has made it through the ethnocide of the 20th century, THEN went through a post nuclear war dark age. I always figured the native american culture that made it through all of this became a mish mash of indian cultures. Then in the TNG era, I see it more as these are groups trying to rediscover their 200+ year old roots. So they are in essence themselves reading and studying archaeology and historical records that made it through the nuclear war. What they have is not a true to 20th entury American culture, what they have themselves is a reductionist version of Indian culture.
@bobbusama9490
8 жыл бұрын
this is kind of a tangent, but when you said that we only see one culture per species, I think that's just because that's what we see. think about humans from like, the Klingons perspective. All they see of us is the Starfleet and higher ups. They just don't really ever go to the colonies of other cultures because they're in federation space and they can't go there. if an alien was to come to Earth right now, you can bet your ass it'll see mostly American and western cultures. Like, we'll introduce other peoples, but the vast majority of it will be showing off our technological and scientific advances - which just so happen to be mostly made in the western world. There probably are non violent Klingons. There probably are emotional Vulcans. There probably are selfless Ferengi. We just don't see them
@Smeginator
8 жыл бұрын
They (mildly) dealt with that in Voyager. In 'Flesh and Blood' (I think), they had a Hirogen hologram tech who was looked down on by the Hunters. As for Ferengi, there are Rom and Nog, and that crazy assassin guy in 'The Magnificent Ferengi' (well, he's not selfless, but he's not greedy like most Ferengi.....just murder-y)
@nuberiffic
7 жыл бұрын
We meet Vulcans who embrace emotion in Enterprise
@2bituser569
5 жыл бұрын
Bobbusama we do see a Klingon doctor who isn’t like the warriors in Ent helping Phlox find an augment virus 🦠 cure. The Klingon doctor went against his fathers wishes to pursue science
@JoeSchmoer
9 жыл бұрын
wahh? who the hell is Chakotay reviled by? He's probably among my top 10 favorite star trek characters ever.
@urulai
9 жыл бұрын
James Caswell Go watch SF Debris. You'll find a whole universe of people who dislike Chakotay, because he's a flat "whatever the plot needs" character rather then a human being with ANY sort of depth but that can be said of most anyone on Voyager.
@theroyalseal2466
9 жыл бұрын
Thurston Lhast Its ironic though, every time they had a problem on voyager they always sent the least logical person for the job. In the really creepy episode "The Thaw" (Spoilers) they had a perfectly good Vulcan who isn't affected by emotions, but when people start dying because of the emotions no one thinks to send him.
@Geobacter
9 жыл бұрын
Thurston Lhast "And this week Chakotay has always been... *dice rolls*... an anthropologist!"
@AngelaRyanXX
9 жыл бұрын
TheRoyalSeal246 On the contrary, Tuvok would have been absolutely the most vulnerable officer to send in there.
@theroyalseal2466
9 жыл бұрын
Angela Ryan But Vulcans do not fear death like humans so he couldn't be scared to death
@Wyrd80
9 жыл бұрын
I'll admit upfront that I was never much of a Trek-Fan so I don't know very much about how Charkotay was handeled in universe... but I think it is a bit odd how harshly you critizise the fact that many different native american nations are referrenced in his character. I'd assume that any group of people who wanted to leave for a yet uninhabited world would have to pool considerable amount of ressources in order to have a fresh start there. Keeping in mind how badly native (not only american) identities have been damaged by colonial powers is it so far fetched that many different "native nations" had to pool their ressources in order to succesfully settle a new world? And if they do that wouldn't it be natural that a new kind of "native culture" would emerge that incorporates aspects from all the different cultures that contributed? In my eyes that just seems like the likely thing to happen. Anyway- the video was certainly interessting to watch
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Wyrd80 Thanks, and I understand where you are coming from. I am glad Native America was included at all.
@ServantOfOdin
8 жыл бұрын
I remember a scientific report indicating that globalisation will blurr the lines between languages, cultures, societies, and ethnicities.... In that context, it may seem reasonable to assume (and I wish to point out that it merely my personal assumption!) that just like languages will mix, blurr and shift, so may cultures. Already some papers presume that by the year 2050, around 30 distinctively different laguages will be extinct. How much moreso in the "far" future of Trek, where a universal translator allows for instant understanding? And how easily could the same apply to other minor cultures? In all of Trek, how many distinct native Chinese did we see? How many native Tibetans? Koreans? How many Africans did we see? How many of them were Zulu? Or Swasi? There was no distinction, because probably, such minor groupd became so mixed, that it's all a big cornucopia. Religiously, many minorities are already summed up as Heathens (Celtoi, Ásatrú, Wicca, Slav paganism, and a few more are all considered as "Heathen")....
@adamthornton7880
8 жыл бұрын
There have been examples in history of multiple distinct cultures attempting to portray themselves as being one contiguous ethnocultural sphere, often for political reasons, and with enough contact, they may even become one. For instance, when Great Britain was brought under the control of a single government, that government immediately began doing everything it could to convince people that England, Wales, and Scotland were all part of the same "British society" with "British culture", and "British values". I believe France underwent a similar process, and more recently the European Union has attempted the same thing for the whole of Europe. During the decolonisation era, Africa and India, both unbelievably diverse, were often portrayed _by their own inhabitants_ as being unified and distinct ethnocultural blocs. So it's quite possible that Native Americans could have done the same thing by the 24th century.
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
That is very possible. Star Trek should throw us some hints on this...they've already introduced Native Americans as participants in this universe, I think they should double down and invest in fleshing out their backstory.
@robertoholiveira
9 жыл бұрын
Man, your videos are amazing. FLAWLESS VICTORY. (Greetings from Brazil)
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Cumprimentos dos Estados Unidos! Fico feliz em ouvir de Brasil, meu irmão =) Thank you very much. They will only get better from here on out =)
@SoundBlackRecordings
8 жыл бұрын
North & South American Indigenous people do claim each other as our people. That isn't culturally insensitive that is correct. The 'Idle No More' movement is evidence of the prophesy that speaks about that "when the eagle of the north flies with the condor of the south." The Maya use ayahuasca which is also a hallucinogen. It stands to reason that thousands of years in the future a group of people taken from various groups, forced to live together on another planet would have a mixed culture.
@sirmount2636
8 жыл бұрын
It's difficult to compare because there is not a single Native American dominated country in the Americas. Even in countries where they form the majority of the population, they have no political power, so you can't really compare them to European or African or Asian countries.
@KyleSullivan
8 жыл бұрын
That's isn't strictly true. Mexico, Bolivia, Ecuador, and Peru have seen successes on respective national political stages that reaffirm the indigenous majorities in those nations. Native presidents, cabinet positions, political parties and movements are far more politically active there than in the US and Canada, with the reasons boiling down to how the Spanish and English dealt with incorporating native populations. Ecuador and Mexico are shining examples. Even in the US, certain nations have a lot of power. The Dine, or Navajo, have a lot of bargaining power in the US Federal System now. They are a full 1/4 of the state of Arizona in terms of land area, are quite active in the courts and have a striking amount of uranium on their land that they sell to the US. In Canada, the province of Nunavut is native dominated (albeit, sparse in population). Considering the history, I think this is very remarkable.
@sirmount2636
8 жыл бұрын
***** Perhaps. But a farcry from where they should be. There are roughly the same number of Native Americans as there are American Jews but we hear far more about the problems of the latter rather than the former. I live in an area with many Latin American immigrants and several times I've met people who speak or whose parents speak a Native language, and they're heavily discriminated against by their own countrymen because they don't speak Spanish as a first tongue.
@Ayce1955
9 жыл бұрын
I just found this channel and I'm only on my third instalment. Enjoying it so far. As to the subject at hand, I will agree ST hasn't been great in depicting the Natives, but it was a reflection of the times. In their defence, especially in regard to Chakotay, consider this. I'm Canadian, of European and native descent, and I have celebrated many traditions based on both cultures. Chakotay is Native, a descendant of many tribes and traditions that have become co-joined over time, and this would explain why he doesn't stick to one tribal tradition. Just as many North Americas have gotten so mixed, that no one countries' traditions survive on their own. It's a cultural mash up. Mexico could be included as well. Their traditions are a combination of the past, (Mayan, Aztec, and other lesser know civilizations with their own cultures), mixed in with European (Spanish) traditions and culture. There are very few places on this planet that are still culturally pure. Even the Native Americans of today are a blend of many tribes, but some of the basic traditions survive and carry on, as it should be.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Well said and quite right. Every person is in a state of cultural evolution. No culture anywhere is not evolving to survive and adapt.
@RoonMian
8 жыл бұрын
Yeah, saying "these savages couldn't have built these amazing structures whose ruins we're finding here" happened a lot in Africa as well. One of the Starfleet Academy books also has a humanoid but non-human character that wears a feather in her hair for religious reasons and thus gets an exception for uniform regulations. I know the novels are not exactly canon but in there religious freedom in regarding uniform exceptions was nicely explained. A bit like military issue Sikh turbans in real life.
@NoobFish23
8 жыл бұрын
_(if you read anything of this, make it the last two lines)_ While I can't think of anyone thing stated here that I disagree with, I think it should be noted the the "Reductionism" that is constantly being brought up is in no way, shape, or form unique to Native Americans in the media. I would like to point out that Germans, and many others, are often treated in much the same way, if to a more or less racist extent depending on the ethnicity. Using the German example, I would ask, "Which Germans?" Culturally speaking, they are very diverse. The stereotypical image of lederhosen and massive beer steins is, to one extent or another, an exaggeration inspired uniquely from Bavaria. The idea of the militaristic general with fencing scars is primarily, if not wholly, Prussian in origin. While the overly powder composer is primarily Austrian. I assume I've made at least a few errors in that little rant, but the point is the same. Not all Italians are alike. Not all English, or all Japanese, or all peoples of any country. And I know it's not the same, as I've just named individual countries, whereas the video covers peoples from two whole continents. Well, the same still apply. As an American, not native, sorry, I can say our media tends to portray all Europeans, all Africans(excluding Eqypt, it gets lumped into the middle east stereotype), and most all Central/South Americans as being near monolithic in culture. This doesn't excuse the practice of "Reductionism" to promote racism. I just merely wanted to point out that it isn't "Reductionism" that is the real issue here.
@Dinuial
9 жыл бұрын
Re: The shirt. The natives of the planet are depicted wearing skins and woven fabrics. The Star Fleet uniform is a knit fabric with a zipper at the shoulder. Knit fabrics stretch a great deal, woven fabrics not so much, and skins least of all. Miramane was expecting laces or buttons, which would have been necessary to get a woven or skin garment to fit the way Kirk's shirt does. Additionally a woven or skin garment fitted the way Kirk's shirt does COULD NOT be slipped on and off with the closures fastened. It isn't stupidity, just unfamiliarity with the materials.
@soggycardboardbox
10 жыл бұрын
Great video! It's well-researched and well-produced. I look forward to seeing more Trekspertise.
@DrMabuse2008
9 жыл бұрын
5:00 minutes Tell them about the space rock? The prime directive.
@NimhLabs
9 жыл бұрын
DrMabuse2008 So... let me get this straight. You are telling me, that if we tell Captain James "Breaking the Prime Directive to sleep with alien babes is my middle name" Kirk he might possibly break the Prime Directive... it might be a valid explanation for him to not do something? Oh... and now you all know what the "T" really stands for.
@jimmyjam1463
9 жыл бұрын
the prime directive doesn't apply to humans ( tng season 5 "masterpiece society")
@LockeNCole
9 жыл бұрын
Humans were already a warp culture.
@briggs5534
3 жыл бұрын
that early episode with Kirk was an abomination. Native Americans had been depicted on tv much earlier than that as real, human, sympathetic and empathetic characters, not often, but at least a few times. a good example is Michael Ansara (also a Star Trek veteran ). Ansara played a Native American town marshall on the series "Law of the Plainsman" and, more importantly, Apache chief Cochise on Broken Arrow. Ansara was actually of Lebanese extraction, but naturally was slotted into playing brown skin supporting characters throughout most of his career, Mexicans, Arabs, Klingons, Native Americans ... (and was married to 'I dream of Jeanie' star Barbara Eden for a while, too)
@tiggergolah
7 жыл бұрын
While its interesting to listen to you hoist Hollywood on its own petard of PC bullcrap, your premise is a bit of a reach. I'm part Cherokee, and I'm not offended. So unless you're Native American yourself, its sounds like your taking offense on behalf of others. Overall, Star Trek has had a far more positive view and portrayal of Native Americans than negative. Surely you can find other subjects related to Star Trek to discuss. How about how Paramount's treatment of Axanar has affected fan films?
@Trekspertise
7 жыл бұрын
By the same token, isn't it a bit anecdotal for you to speak on behalf of the entirety of the Cherokee people, declaring your position to be theirs? There are Native Americans who have raised these very issues, not just for Star Trek but for popular entertainment as a whole. And for my own bit, this is far more interesting and worthy of discussion than anything Axanar is doing.
@greekvvedge
9 жыл бұрын
My god, is Admiral Nechayev always such a heartless cold woman??? Also, isn't the reductionism issue sort of complex. I mean, Star Trek is a metaphor for the society in which we(in the West) happen to be living at the time of production. Humanity is reduced to a symbol as a whole. I've always noticed this once I moved to Asia and realized that the values found in Star Trek aren't necessarily considered ideal among all of humanity.
@erictaylor5462
7 жыл бұрын
11:00 "They had a representative there, but nobody really listened to him." Why even bother mentioning it then. He might as well have been absent.
@Trekspertise
7 жыл бұрын
We have a history of doing that. See Puerto Rico's representation in Congress.
@erictaylor5462
7 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise Well if Puerto Rico went ahead and voted for Statehood, they would have more representation there, wouldn't they? It's time we added more stars to the flag anyway. I don't think Mexico OR Canada will give us any of there states. Besides we already have a bunch of Mexican States. California, Arizona, New Mexican, Nevada....
@Trekspertise
7 жыл бұрын
+Eric Taylor They've had multiple referendums, which always divides the public. And Mexico isn't giving us anymore states..,not since we took half of Mexico.
@erictaylor5462
7 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise I did say they were not likely to give us any more.
@sabin97
7 жыл бұрын
eric, fuck off. puerto rico needs to be free from the boot of the usa federal laws....
@keyonhutson1539
9 жыл бұрын
It might be possible that the writers intentionally mixed traditions and beliefs in an effort to show that Native American cultures have mixed together over time. But then again, let's be honest, it's probably just them having no idea what they were doing.
@Vanalovan
9 жыл бұрын
A lot of the problems with chakotays jumbled heritage is that it sits right next a narrative of cultural preservation in Star Trek. When many tribes are shown trying to hold on to their traditions it doesn't bold well when those traditions don't really reflect any particular group. Since these episodes are few and far between I'd say it is most likely that the writers were ignorant (not criminal but disappointing).
@PatriciaCross
9 жыл бұрын
My biggest beef with Chakotay is the need to turn him into the Magical Indian trope, a variation of the Magical Negro trope. Add on to that the insult by claiming that Native Americans were not responsible for their own culture and instead owe it to aliens from the Delta Quadrant make Voyager a huge fail in terms of representation for Native Americans. Chakotay started out as an awesome character.
@DrewLSsix
8 жыл бұрын
To be fair there are many points where all of human society including western/white culture is shown to be rooted in outside influence. To the point that we as a species didn't even evolve due to our our own ancestors efforts but due to the seeding of our planet by some other species entirely.
@Rensune
8 жыл бұрын
The reason they are called Nations (and not just tribes of clans) is because They too had politics, wars, trade, etc. They weren't "Noble Savages" but they weren't animals, either.
@DatAlien
8 жыл бұрын
Maybe Chakotays people are not from a single origin but only became one in the future from a group trying to revive native american culture with little actual knowledge. Also the idea of an Alien bringing knowledge is also attributed to European structures like Stonehenge.
@2bituser569
5 жыл бұрын
DatAlien exactly it was attributed to the Greeks in the episode with Apollo too.
@stephengowdy1095
8 жыл бұрын
so, I had a conversation with Star Trek writer, DC Fontana at a convention in Phoenix Arizona, and during that conversation we discussed native Americans in Star Trek. She stated that part of their script guidlines for all cultures was to actually write within stereotypes. This was not to be offensive but to try to make characters that were relatable to everyone; so that (in this example a native American) any minority watching would feel included. If you take the original cast, Scotty and Chekov both play heavily to racial stereotypes. These generalizations doesn't make the show racist, because the generalozations were not negative. In a way they are positive, because these people are thriving and have brought their culture into Star Treks utopian future.
@toma18198
8 жыл бұрын
+Stephen Gowdy Actually, I see the tactic of using stereotypes in that way as being condescending to the audience. I like a show that challenges my thinking, while being entertaining. Sure, that is risky for ratings, but it does not make for a quality show. It makes for flat characters and predictable situations and outcomes. Also, in regards to your comment - "these generalizations doesn't make the show racist"- there is the concept of positive racism to consider. Just because positive stereotypes are being portrayed , or racial groups are shown in a positive light based on these stereotype, or racial traits, or characteristics, that doesn't make this portrayal not racist. It may not have the overwhelmingly harming impact of negative racism, but it is still action driven based on race, thus racist.
@dimensionalriftfilms2755
3 жыл бұрын
Picard! One of my trek heroes called us "Indians"! He's supposed to be this shining example of intelligence and poise and even has standing in the archeological community of his time and FORGETS that Native Americans were mistaken for people of India, hence the term Indian!?? I'm Iroquois! Mohawk nation! I've never even been to India! 😑
@Nupetiet
2 ай бұрын
oh man you should visit, have some mango ice cream
@dimensionalriftfilms2755
2 ай бұрын
@@Nupetiet Oh man maybe I should avoid interacting with people I don't want to be mistaken for LMAO Btw, stay off our reservations please.
@Nupetiet
2 ай бұрын
@@dimensionalriftfilms2755 Jeez, don't go, then. Some ancient Italian's mistake shouldn't keep you from going to neat places. I don't know of any reservations in my region, though I know there are Piscataway people south of me.
@dimensionalriftfilms2755
2 ай бұрын
@@Nupetiet Awesome to hear that you live near natives. 👍
@Nupetiet
2 ай бұрын
@@dimensionalriftfilms2755 I'd like to learn more about the people who lived in the Chesapeake Bay area before my ancestors displaced them, but it's harder than I had expected. I've got some vacation coming up, so maybe I can swing by the museum in DC.
@Disthron
8 жыл бұрын
It occurs to me that after hundreds of years of being homogenized by the predominant culture. That the native american cultures could have merged, at least somewhat. As time marched on into the modern era cultures might have picked up practices from one and other that might not have been possible in previous eras due to animosity between different groups. ....It could also be that these groups are like "modern Norse" worshipers. Where the culture was actually lost at some point and what you see now is actually a revival movement that has just peaced together remaining bits of information.
@samiamtheman7379
8 жыл бұрын
It's also possible that the cultures changed over time just like cultures in real life.
@michaeldempster5726
9 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video, I enjoyed it. You did open my eyes to an alternative reading of Appocalypto by considering the ending as a white saviour narrative. When I saw the film here in Scotland, a nation well placed to judge the appropriation of history and culture by Mr Gibson, the arrival of the Spanish was met with an audible gasp from the audience. Speaking with people after the film, and in the years since, the ending was very much taken as an ominous critique of colonialism. Jaguar paw, the hero, who has exhibited a heightened sense of wariness throughout the film does not go to the Spanish because "he knows better". I really don't see this as the white saviour narrative, rather I see it as the "there's always a bigger fish" narrative.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
That is a great observation. Nicely done.
@nuberiffic
7 жыл бұрын
I don't understand where he's getting the saviour trope from. Is there a different cut of the movie? The one I saw had the main character finally escaping his captors, he makes it to the beach and sees the ships in the distance, and then it ends. I just saw it as, "Well now he's really fucked" I thought the point was that after all his efforts to escape, and his enemy's efforts to capture him were all for nothing because now the apocalypse is about to happen.
@mcrobielord1503
2 ай бұрын
Certainly! Here’s a more detailed exploration of your fan theory regarding Commander Chakotay’s heritage, blending Maya and Navajo influences. ### Background Story **Parents’ Heritage:** - **Father (Maya):** Chakotay’s father could be from a Maya community, deeply rooted in the traditions of the ancient Maya civilization from regions such as present-day Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, and El Salvador. His father might have passed down knowledge of the Maya calendar, astronomy, and ceremonial practices, emphasizing a connection to the cosmos and natural world. - **Mother (Navajo):** Chakotay’s mother could be from the Navajo Nation, which spans parts of Arizona, Utah, and New Mexico. She could have taught him about the Navajo creation stories, the importance of harmony with nature (Hózhó), and traditional healing practices using herbs and ceremonies. ### Cultural Practices **Spiritual Beliefs:** - **Maya Influence:** Chakotay’s spiritual practices could include rituals that align with the Maya calendar, such as those honoring the solstices and equinoxes. He might carry a small, carved stone or artifact symbolizing a Maya deity or spirit guide. - **Navajo Influence:** He could also incorporate Navajo practices such as sand painting for healing rituals, using traditional Navajo chants and prayers to seek guidance and balance. **Art and Symbols:** - Chakotay’s tattoos and artwork might reflect a blend of Maya and Navajo symbolism. His tattoo could incorporate elements of Maya glyphs and Navajo geometric patterns, symbolizing his dual heritage and the balance between the two cultures. ### Personality and Skills **Wisdom and Leadership:** - Growing up with teachings from both the Maya and Navajo cultures, Chakotay would have a deep respect for wisdom and leadership. He would value the Maya focus on community and the Navajo emphasis on harmony, which would influence his leadership style on Voyager, making him a compassionate and balanced leader. **Knowledge of the Stars:** - His father’s teachings about Maya astronomy would make Chakotay proficient in celestial navigation, an essential skill for a Starfleet officer. His understanding of the stars would be both scientific and spiritual, blending modern technology with ancient wisdom. ### Personal Journey **Identity and Conflict:** - Chakotay’s mixed heritage could lead to personal conflicts, especially regarding his identity and belonging. He might feel a strong connection to both cultures but also struggle with the pressure to honor both heritages equally. This internal conflict could be a recurring theme in his journey, driving his desire to seek balance and understanding. **Connecting with Other Cultures:** - His background would give him a unique perspective when encountering new species and cultures in the Delta Quadrant. He would be more open-minded and respectful of different traditions, often drawing parallels to his own diverse heritage to foster understanding and cooperation. ### Key Episodes and Moments **Vision Quests:** - In episodes featuring Chakotay’s vision quests, the combination of Maya and Navajo elements would be prominent. His spirit guides could include figures from both mythologies, offering him guidance and wisdom from both cultural perspectives. **Cultural Artifacts:** - Chakotay might collect and cherish artifacts from both cultures, such as a Navajo rug or a Maya codex. These items would serve as physical reminders of his heritage and the lessons he’s learned from his parents. ### Conclusion Blending Maya and Navajo heritage for Commander Chakotay adds a rich layer of cultural complexity and depth to his character. It honors the diversity within Native American cultures and provides a nuanced background that shapes his spiritual beliefs, leadership style, and personal journey throughout *Star Trek: Voyager*. This dual heritage would make Chakotay a unique and compelling character, embodying the strengths and wisdom of both the Maya and Navajo traditions.
@Zidana123
9 жыл бұрын
Eh, I thought it was pretty reasonable for the duped people to throw rocks at Kirk after discovering he wasn't a god. Never saw the episode, but it doesn't seem like the Picard situation where Picard was constantly trying to talk people OUT of believing he was a god. From the footage shown, Kirk seemed like he was actively trying to mislead people. And I don't know about you, but if a dude came and I really did think he was a god, and he actively portrayed himself as a god, but then I found out he wasn't... I'd be pretty pissed too. And I think that's a kind of anger that can only be assuaged by the sight of his bleeding and battered body, slowly convulsing on the ground.
@2bituser569
5 жыл бұрын
Yea I agree any group of people who trusted someone to save them turned out to be a fraud would turn violent. I don’t blame Kirk consciously wasn’t trying to be a god. He was so confused and amnesiac at the time. It was kind of silly that the obelisk couldn’t auto deflect incoming asteroids ☄️ but used weather modification to produce a sign of impending impacts. If it could detect danger all by itself why not activate its own beam too. If it was Marvel the trines would have become Native American version of Wakanda lol. They were isolated from whites but remained stagnant tech wise.
@RangerDave1959
9 жыл бұрын
The cultural reduction in the portrayal of Chakotay may be the result of an attempt by his recent ancestors to relearn their heritage after so much was lost over the centuries. I think we can see an example even today where American blacks try to identify with an single idealized African culture when no single African culture ever existed. It is an understandable desire to connect with your history made even stronger by the sense that something important to your being has been taken from you.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
RangerDave1959 I prefer in-universe explanations of this kind of stuff, so +10 points on an original suggestion. Chakotay's cultural state does offer a chance to read into what happened to Native America in the Star Trek multiverse. I mean, after all, a great deal of them left Earth to colonize other worlds. Nice work =)
@MogofWar
9 жыл бұрын
RangerDave1959 In that regard tribes that survived might have also taken on features and/or members from tribes that didn't. In -universe you have at least 2 major human catastrophes between modern times and the birth of the Federation. You have the Third World War, in which nuclear war destroyed the United States, reducing it to warring factions. (If I remember correctly didn't Picard describe the event as having wiped out 60% of Humanity) Then you have the Eugenics Wars, which while they're nebulous on the exact casualties, seemed to have themselves taken full percentage points of the population out of the equation, and such disasters do have a tendency of disproportionately hurting minorities. It might have taken multiple tribes pulling resources together to even afford the ships that bore them across the galaxy. Only by working in coalition rather than going their separate ways, could they get the resources necessary to face such challenges. Once they were more established on the space-faring stage, they might have the capacity to get more ships, go more places, and go their separate ways, but even then they would have to be working together to be able to thrive in the 23rd Century Alpha Quadrant with little to no help from Starfleet.
@genenightthunder6807
7 жыл бұрын
Nope. Riker said "600 million dead" in First Contact. Seems like a very low number. Maybe Riker misread his line and it was supposed to be 6 billion, which would still be a very small number if Earth population would have risen to over 10-15 billion. You have to remember that Shinzon's Viceroy said "Scimitar" as "sim-i-tar" but Riker pronounced it as "sim-mitter". I don't know if he did that on purpose, but after that (to me) Riker's pronounciations and information was suspect. So... 600 million? That's nowhere near 60% of WW3 or Eugenics or both !!
@no1reallycaresabout2
9 жыл бұрын
It's not just Mayans in the Star Trek universe that have been influenced by aliens. For example, the noncorporeal being Onaya influenced Earth poets Catullus and John Keats.
@ReactRa
9 жыл бұрын
***** wasn't there an alien modeled after the greek gods in the original series.
@KyleSullivan
9 жыл бұрын
Indeed. #4 mentions those aliens :)
@ReactRa
9 жыл бұрын
oh I'm sorry. thank you
@FreedomforHaiti
7 жыл бұрын
Gene Roddenberry's bible for the ill-fated Phase II series of the late '70s mentions the American plains having been reclaimed by Indigenous plains people (see the book Trek: The Lost Years by Edward Gross). I think it was meant merely as back story, but who knows? it might have turned up in the series in passing, which would've been great, IMO. Sadly, IMO, this whole notion of Roddenberry's was lost by the time "Next Generation" started delving on Earth. And in Abrams's first ST reboot, the mid-west doesn't look all that different from today. Even the same water-intensive methods of agriculture seem to be in use. I don't think our current forms of agricultural can survive another few centuries. (Winona LaDuke describes the ecological consequences of our present agriculture techniques in her book All Our Relations.)
@FreedomforHaiti
7 жыл бұрын
Watching this is making me realize Star Trek could use Native American/Indigenous writers. There are plenty of them out there. Last week I spent 10 hours at an American Indian film festival (I attend it every year and am always very impressed) There are whole channels devoted to Native American programing (one in Canada, another in S. California). ............... Regarding the conglamoration of cultures expressed by characters Standing Bear and Chakotay, perhaps they are of mixed heritage as many Indigenous people are, given all the relocations and the termination of the mid-20th c. I know people who identify as one tribe (as Standing Bear identifies himself as Cherokee) but have traditions of varying cultures. Maybe I'm being too charitable and am letting the writers off the hook too easily. ........... As far as I know, there hasn't been an Australian Aborigine in Trek (though casting Aborigines has finally become a big deal in Australian TV). ............... According to Stephen Edward Poe's book on the making of "Voyager" (i.e., Vision of the Future: Star Trek Voyager), Chakotay began as a native North American (I forget exactly what tribe or area), but at the last minute it was decided he should be from further south. This may or may not explain why he has attributes of the American southwest.
@FreedomforHaiti
7 жыл бұрын
One thing I was hoping to see in J.J. Abrams's reboot was a view of Alcatraz Island with Natives again occupying it. But by this time, they've created the cultural center, etc. that was envisioned during the Alcatraz occupation of the late '60s. I imagined it being just scenery in the background, like the Native Star Fleet personnel in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, but I love little touches like that (it's a way for Trek to make statements with a finite amount of time). However, I don't think that was done. I seem to recall Alcatraz being visible in Abrams's second ST movie, but it looked pretty much the same as it does today. (I don't think Abrams's futuristic depiction of San Francisco is inspiring at all. To me it just looks like an extension, more or less, of what we have.)
@WayoftheBrush
9 жыл бұрын
Interesting and insightful.
@alastairmciver6220
8 жыл бұрын
Curious that you mention Up The Long Ladder (TNG's worst episode by a considerable margin) and Sub Rosa - Ireland In Space and Scotland In Space respectively - as examples of Trek's portrayals of diversity, without mentioning that they are both extremely offensive. The Irish are portrayed as drunken, simple-minded sheep-shaggers and the Scots as sentimental wallowers in heather-and mist nostalgia. Not to mention the accents! Worse still, Picard, with his expertise in interstellar diblomacy, uses the word "scotch" to refer to the people. Things from Scotland are scotch. People from Scotland are Scottish. Star Trek has never been very good at protraying non-American Earth cultures. The idea of being ""one world" is a theme we see, where warp drive magically unites us, and we enter a galaxy of strictly one-culture-per-planet. Because the Federation is implausibly terracentric (with "human" still unaccountably used as shorthand for sentient humanoids generally, and "humanoid" being an accepted term for bipeds whose opposable thumbs are on their upper limbs) Earth, and Earth alone is permitted some token diversity, provided non-default Earth cultures are tokenistically represented, and remain quaint, funny and a little bit cute. Because of historic injustices (I believe American textbooks still refer to the massacre at Wounded Knee as a "battle") Native Americans are unusually vulnerable to this misrepresentation and exploitation. Trek, perhaps recognising its mistakes in The Paradise Syndrome, has portrayed Native Americans since in an unusual degree of depth - certainly more than the Scots, the Irish or the French might hope to enjoy - however shoddy research and lack of consultation with actual Native Americans have made this attempt at depth consistently flawed.
@Corpantano
9 жыл бұрын
Hi there, just making an observation that may be added to this discussion of pre-colombian reductionism: Quetzalcóatl, which is náhuatl fo "feathered serpent" or "beautiful serpent" (the etymology is contended) was mainly an aztec and aztec-conquered peoples god. The mayas did worship Kukulkán, though, which is said to be the same god (much as with Zeus and Jove).
@lorllc
9 жыл бұрын
excellent! very Anthropological. Eric Staples.... assumes too much... It is an easy write off... No I am a minority I do not say other Asian cultures are my own, they have their own history culture language etc... Immerse yourself in Culture like Picard otherwise you won't get it...like the Admiral... history repeats because people assume way.... tooo.... much... I can live and navigate your culture....can you do the same to mine? If you can you would NEVER say what you just said ... Which sadly reflects on you....
@cammameil
8 жыл бұрын
This is a difficult video not to argue against. That is not to say that I think you are wrong, but that I think there is enough in Trek lore to explain certain things we see in the show. And things that aren't in the show, you can lift right out of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" for a passing explanation. Don't get me wrong, I still liked the video, and you bring up some good points, but there are explanations for some of the things you mentioned. 1. Monoculturism as a symptom of modern life in Star Trek. If we look at the "heavies" when it comes to alien races in Trek, you come up against Klingons, Cardassians, Ferengi, Romulans, Jem H'adar, Founders, Bajorans, the Q continuum, the Borg, Vulcans, and Tribbles. Most of them represent a facet of humanity taken to an extreme that even the most insane among us would be afraid to try and recreate. And, like the Greek pantheon, they all represent a human behavior that we all have but is shameful when it gets out of hand. Ferengi are greedy to a fault, Romulans are secretive to a fault, Cardassians care about order and timeliness to a fault, etc. In any society that demands an unbending path towards an unattainable ideal, troublemakers are either going to be marginalized or thrown under the bus of capital punishment and social Darwinism. Ever notice in the Unification episodes how there is no litter or garbage in the streets that Picard and Data are walking through? What do you think happens to litterers on Romulus? That's why anytime we take a closer look at a story about the "heavies'" societies, we always have a story about an underground movement or a lone dissident that rebels against the norm. Be it Quark's mother wearing clothes and running her own business syndicate, or the Romulans trying to learn the old Vulcan ways, because most people who don't adhere to the norm are so marginalized and disaffected that they have no voice at all, and most characters, even if they disagree with what is happening "go along to get along". The subcommander and the captain from Face of the Enemy are perfect examples of this. The subcommander is purposefully undermining his own government, where the captain, because of the rank and privilege she enjoys is simply openly hostile to Troi's alter-ego, despite what it will do to the morale of her command crew dining with them. The captain even recognizes that propaganda is what keeps her in her station in life. "The people like to blame the military for the wars we are asked to fight, but I think it is your kind that will be the death of us all." 2. The White Savior angle. I see that it is there, but I don't see it as the intent of the writers. In the clip you ran, Spock is just being more casual than he usually is. He could have immediately quoted the Prime Directive and told Jim and Bones to get back to the ship and let what happens happen. Instead he takes a softer approach and says, essentially, "nothing good is going to come from conversation, it will raise more questions than we can answer." If the Mintaukens from "Who Watches the Watchers" had an asteroid problem, Picard or Data would have said the same thing, ie "I'm sure they'll get it, if we tell them, but there's nothing we can do. Oh well." and then they would have left. That episode only works because they have to clean up the cultural contamination that has already happened. And though it has been awhile since I have seen that episode of TOS, my recollection is that there is an obelisk which will deflect asteroids away from the planet without human intervention in the process. So Kirk doesn't really save them at all. I might be wrong, it has been a while since I watched it, but that was my take-away from it; similar to an SG1 episode about a weird Dutch-like village that worshiped Norse gods that was transplanted from Earth. The SG1 team fucks up their sun and they have to try and fix it before everyone is irradiated to death when the star changes its core reaction to heavier elements. 3. I was not going to make this a list of things I disagreed with you on. Some of the points you brought up resonated with me, but could have done with a little more fleshing out. I know your time is limited and editing is important. When you go to talking about Mayan and Inca buildings and civilization, and how white academics want to explain their architecture away through other means, there is a great quote, on camera, by Roddenberry, about the idea that aliens built the Egyptian pyramids, and how angry he got at people who said that to him, because he heard it all the time at conventions. "What are you stupid? Human beings built those structures, with their own hands, and they were not different from us. They built them with blood, sweat and determination. Anyone who says 'aliens did it' doesn't believe in his own species. 4. Native traditions blended together. I get where you are coming from on this point, but to be realistic, in a post Manifest Destiny world, the blending of traditions from different tribes should be expected, just as the blending of other cultural norms happens all the time in America. I will use myself as an example. My great grandparents immigrated to this country from Sweden in 1901, I have their immigration papers framed. They picked the one place in America that was just as shitty as the place they left when it came to topology, climate, and nightlife - North Dakota. But they carried the traditions from the old world with them, and passed them down to their kids, who passed them down to my father, who passed them down to me. And we still do it in my household to this day. It is not related to dressing up, or praying to a tree, or what to eat, it is all about how you talk to each other in a family. That was the enduring lesson. Every night at dinner, since I was a kid, my family would a play a game to pass the time. The game had no name, but it was a way to get to know each other better. You start by asking someone about their day, when the first complaint comes out of their mouth, you pin them, with the phrase, "It could always be worse..." and then you make up a worse outcome for the described scenario. You would be surprised what this game can teach you about the fears of your family members. And that's what has been passed down. That is what has endured after more than a century. They were fearful about their new home and their neighbors, and this was a safety valve, a place to talk about their fears and concerns but in a way that made it seem like a joke, without going to that "silver lining" chestnut. But, with all of that said, I would not have gotten along with my great-grandparents. I could have a great dinner conversation with them but that is about it, because they would see me as too worldly, or too multi-cultural to be "one of their own". I know lots of little bits about other cultures, some of which I have incorporated into my daily life. I'm pretty sure my great-grandparents would not "get" Yoga or meditation, and they certainly wouldn't understand PC gaming. To sum this point up, I would think it would be more naive to think that the remaining tribes never co-mingled their cultural touchstones together into a new culture, that has elements of both. Every American Swede I've ever met plays the "It could be worse" game at dinner. I've never seen it from someone born in Sweden. 5. The disease angle. You are both correct and incorrect on this one. Early explorers were carrying diseases that they could pass on through casual contact that would decimate native populations, but not was not the intention. Once you get into the period where rape and infected blankets are the primary vectors, then you can say it was biological warfare. Imagine if you were transported back to Henry VIII's court, the things that are in your blood, right now, that don't hurt you, would kill half of London inside of a month if you so much as cut yourself during your visit. And this point also echos the white savior as well. Anyone sufficiently advanced in technology is going to seem magical or godlike, regardless of their skin color; just like anyone carrying hundreds of deadly germs in their blood and on their skin will seem like the devil or one of the four horsemen. When you consider the people that became "native Americans" came from in the first place it raises interesting questions. The people who crossed the Bering Strait could have done so with livestock, yet none of those species were present when Europeans landed here. Most of the diseases Europeans went through as a rite of passage in childhood were related or caused by living in close proximity to pigs, cows, and sheep. If you remove those animals from everyday human life, there's no reason for your body to develop an immunity to the things they can transmit to you. It would be an interesting find to see if there are pig or cow bones dating back to the first human migration to the north American continent, meaning that they brought domesticated animals with them but they didn't do well and died off. All in all, I really liked this video. It was challenging, insightful, and thoughtful. I hope you make more in the future.
@wotmot223
9 жыл бұрын
1. who was the " white savior " in Apocalypto? 2. How in anyway was Wesley Crusher a "white savior", he stood completely aside. I like your videos.... but sometimes you stretch things.
@JarrahHodge
10 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this - I think you did a great job and hopefully it'll help Trek fans think a little more critically about some of these representations. I second your recommendation in the notes for the 2009 documentary Reel Injun. Also highly recommend Sierra S. Adare's book "Indian" Stereotypes in TV Science Fiction, in which she runs focus groups with Native Americans and gets their perceptions on "The Paradise Syndrome", "Journey's End", "The Cloud" and "Tattoo", as well as episodes from other series like Quantum Leap and My Favorite Martian.
@calebwilliams7659
9 жыл бұрын
I attended a Trek Convention in the early 90's, and one of the guest speakers was a man who worked as an asst. director on set for TNG in the post-Roddenberry seasons. He mentioned that an early script for Journey's End had the line, "Another broken treaty, white man?" In the end this was scrubbed from the script as being too controversial. I found that ironic because while the line itself might not have been uttered verbatim in the final product, the essential point of that one line was still conveyed both in less direct wording and in the story itself. If you're in for a penny with this plot, what harm would it have done to go in for a pound with the wording?
@techraan
8 жыл бұрын
I still say Omega Glory is by far the most racist episode in the entire franchise.
@CDP1861
8 жыл бұрын
You are very right about the reductionism, but that happens to everyone on this planet and even you do it yourself. Everybody is an expert in exactly one culture: The own. Of course you notice errors and simplifications at once. For anybody else his may not be so obvious. Try it yourself by writing something about people from the other side of the world. Chances are good that their culture and traditions are very different from your own and even with the entire internet at your disposal you will not be able to convince a member from that culture. Still, this is actually a good thing. A purely logical machine becomes helpless when there are no more known facts. Our minds extrapolate from stereotypes, bits we have heard and even assumptions and guesses and remain functional that way. Only keeping in mind that we are going on assumptions does not work all of the time yet.
@amynolastname
3 жыл бұрын
I think if the French language is basically dead by the 2360s then it's possible Chakote's tribe is the result of different tribes banding together and blending traditions over the centuries.
@SullivansProjects
10 жыл бұрын
Fascinating ... I've passed this around to Arizona Tribes. I think they'll appreciate it. These are problems that are inevitable when the Shiprocket is not filmed in Shiprock. Television will always be about catering to the lowest common denominator for the highest viewership demographic. I don't think slights were intentional or vindictive-just the result of the weaknesses inherent in the Hollywood process. Very good work, cuz!
@RobLoach
10 жыл бұрын
Paradise Syndrome is more offensive than TNG's Code of Honor? Perhaps you're correct! Either way, I'm glad that Trtek had evolved since then.
@SirMorat
6 жыл бұрын
I realise I'm quiet late to this video for any real notice but I find it interesting that the narrator is talking about the how the bias portals of a culture are evil as he himself is doing it He implies that sharper than a serpents tooth is the "White Man's" flawed attempt at promoting his views of Native Americans and and naming characters and ideas. The character Walking Bear was named after the relative of the episodes writer a Native American of the very group listed in the episode, and you need to see what he says about the episode or maybe just watch it because it is not just Native American architecture identified as having been influenced by aliens
@brentgranger7856
6 жыл бұрын
Is Admiral Necheyev the most naive character in all of Star Trek? Of course, Sisko sums her and humanity up in his speech to Kira in "The Maquis, Part 2."
@Eggomania86
9 жыл бұрын
Here's a continuation of my star trek rant most of starfleets installations are based in San Fran. Wouldn't make more sense to base star fleet academy at an established institution like Annapolis or Norfolk at an existing naval installation? Hell to really make it interesting why not put it in St.. Petersburg Russia? To me that would make more sense..
@jobe5514
9 жыл бұрын
Love this video! I've always thought that a Maori/Polynesian crew member would be pretty interesting, if they ever do another ST series; would make a difference from someone of African ancestry, an Asian, some white folk, and a Vulcan. Hell, add in an Indian, a Mongolian and an 'actual' African for good measure, just as long as they're not one-dimensional accent-driven stereotypes.
@DataLal
9 жыл бұрын
jobe5514 An "actual" African? I know Nichelle Nichols is African-American, but her character, Uhura, is definitely from Africa. (The "United States of Africa" to be more or less specific). She's been identified as Bantu, she speaks Swahili, and has a Swahili first and last name: Nyota ("star") Uhura ("freedom"). [Her first or middle name has also been identified as "Samara" or "Penda" over the years - Nyota was only confirmed in the 2009 film]. Anyway, how much more "African" can a Star Trek character get? They've probably done better in this regard (thanks to thoughtfulness on the part of Ms. Nichols and writers over the years) than they have with most other characters in Star Trek. Interestingly, Gene Roddenberry was apparently going to name this character "Sulu", but some smart person pointed out that it sounds too close to "Zulu", so the character name was transferred to George Takei's character. (Possibly this Wikipedia account is bunk, or maybe it was really a coincidence that he thought of a name that corresponds to the Sulu Sea, which is in Southeast Asia).
@jobe5514
9 жыл бұрын
datalal624 I certainly agree with all your points, and of course Trek has done a marvellous job, I simply meant a native born and raised African actor rather than American.; I'm sorry if it seemed offensive in any way, and I love Uhura as much as anyone else, so apologies for that if it seemed otherwise.
@PowerMadLabRat
8 жыл бұрын
It's a shame that Tuvok's response to Chakotay (in regards to the bow) wasn't included. I think it's interesting to see Chakotay think that Tuvok is making an assumption about him based on his heritage. When it's actually nothing of the sort. Makes sense as Tuvok would be naive to human cultural stereotypes.
@ConsiliumDraco
7 жыл бұрын
Chakotay comes from Earth, not Dorban 5. Also Chakotay is from the (sound of dice rolling, checking result table) tribe.
@MJ-ux7xk
4 жыл бұрын
How about a video about sexism in star trek? TOS would be very relevant here, the cultural background of the times when it was airing included.
@DennisMorrison1955
8 жыл бұрын
Very interesting episode of your program!!!!!
@canadiannuclearman
7 жыл бұрын
interestingly. i heard a native canadian call white people "The Borg." What he ment by that was from the phrase "you will be assimulated".
@SkepticalChris
8 жыл бұрын
do one on Asians in Star Trek and how for years the writers of Star Trek Voyager didn't realize that "Kim" was actually a Korean family name and not Chinese, as Garrett Wang is Chinese.
@katsarelas1947
9 жыл бұрын
So, I use this response a lot of inconsistencies such as Chakoatay's culture The Third World War Remember, every part of Earth was apparently involved in the conflict. It's easy to assume that the cultural holdouts of Americas native areas wer also hit. That said, it could be said that the already mixed bloodlines of the native cultures became even more fragmented.
@ConsiliumDraco
7 жыл бұрын
Chakotay was in Star Fleet when he quit to join the Maquois. I am quickly losing faith in the knowledge of this guy.
@johnconner7813
8 жыл бұрын
this dude is so full of himself
@timvanrijn8239
8 жыл бұрын
did he say apocalipto? isn't that the movie the hero rises against and empire and afther that sees some other europian dudes with steel armor and is smart enough not to trust them.
@dswynne
9 жыл бұрын
I think you are projecting your own biases when it comes to Native American depiction in 'Trek.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
I think this is a fair assessment. The only bias I'll admit to is wanting to talk openly about Native America in science fiction.
@dswynne
8 жыл бұрын
***** Fair enough. I was simply commenting from the context of the story. As a fan of Star Trek, particularly TOS, I see each episode as parables from the times they were produced. And personally, I think it is silly to critique those episodes from a post-modern context. Now, a much better representation of the Amerind community would within the context of TNG, DS9 and Voyager. These shows deal with many issues, regarding the role of spirituality in general, and various racial and ethnic groups. In VOY, you have the character Chakotay, played by Robert Beltran, who represents the Amerind perspective, even as the character wrestles with the idea of balancing the needs of his heritage with that of the needs of a Starfleet officer. Are there still the tropes that you complain about? A little bit, but it is balanced by good acting and a positive storytelling. Just my two-bits.
@concernedcitizen6313
7 жыл бұрын
Hurray! Someone else who counts The Motion Picture as their favorite!
@adelayda1965
9 жыл бұрын
why use the term NATIVE?. I thought our common ancestry originated from Africa??? That what we told these days. Am i wrong?
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
John Godfrey There is a gigantic naming controversy when it comes to the nations of people already present here when Europeans discovered that they weren't the only people on the planet. This controversy is complicated with tension between Native Nations (or First Nations, as Canada calls them) and the larger Euro-American world that enveloped them, destroyed them and assimilated them. The complications arises from two poles of thought: 1) The need for the Euro-American world to set all native nations apart from Euro-America, as a means of classification. The problem here is that Euro-America always got the names wrong. For example, Christopher Columbus called them Indians...but Indians are from India, where Columbus thought he was. Many times the Euro-American naming schemes were dripping with racism of the worst kind. 2The other pole is the need for Native America to determine for themselves who and what they are. Many Native Nations prefer to call themselves by their own national titles, such as Mohawk, Dine and Alibamu. So, yes, we are all from Africa since about 2 million years ago or more. And Native Americans have been in the Americas whole orders of magnitude of time longer than anyone else. Archaeological evidence reaches back 30,000 years in some cases! And if you ask the Native Americans themselves, some would say their nations were created in the Americas. There is no easy resolution for this. I for one support what ever Native America wants to do in this matter. For example, many of them prefer the term "Indian" because it had been applied to them for so long. You can read a lot more about the Native American Naming Controversy here: bit.ly/1L8hVL0
@kotto2001
9 жыл бұрын
Trekspertise "as Canada calls them"... Should not a people be referred to according to self-designation? The term First Nations was coined by Chief Sol Sanderson of the Saskatchewan First Nations. The terms Indians and Native Americans while used by some Indigenous Peoples (would one expect otherwise after centuries of genocide and assimilation?) are eschewed by Indigenous persons who continue to resist the dispossession and assimilation. Why should the continents of the western hemisphere populated for millennia be named after a European? Is that not racist? Nonetheless, I found this episode of Trekpertise to be most enlightened and sensitive.
@adelayda1965
9 жыл бұрын
i dont see myself british, i see myself as English as i was born in England.
@LeonardoDeVinci1452
8 жыл бұрын
I don't think tv or movies will ever get the portrayals of native nations will ever get it right. Since the nations are made up of different tribes. Movies seem to cram them all together. It would be more better if they pick one nation and use that. Like the Sioux or Apache since there is more documentation available for them.
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
+Leonardo De Vinci Well, to a degree that is true. However, there is a whole native filmmaking community and it is kind of awesome.
@CherokeeBigBear
8 жыл бұрын
Even the Apache are divided into different bands and there are slight variants to each of the 3 bands, White Mountain Apache, Lipon Apache and Cherokawa Apache. even language varies a lot. as Western band Cherokee I know better than to say "thank you" to an Eastern Cherokee.....all I will say is it does not translate to the same word.
@LeonardoDeVinci1452
8 жыл бұрын
You are so right about that where I use to live they many bands and we have 4 distinctive dialects for each region of the area the bands cover. First people are shocked that there are still tribes in CA and they lump us in to one group. I understand what you are saying
@greysapocalyptic
Жыл бұрын
As a Trek loving Native, it has always been cringy 😐
@Jesse12489
8 жыл бұрын
I an part native American and dispite as a child was going to Indian reservations and learn history. I remember we learned how to make our own tents and pottery out of reddish clay.
@duaneelliott5194
8 жыл бұрын
what nation are you?
@Jesse12489
8 жыл бұрын
+Duane Elliott I keep forgetting, I been to the reservation a few times. My family tribe is in Escondido California. Sadly I hear the tribe is corrupt now. I hear few elders aren't even native American and started kicking people out of the tribe including mine. we even have proof of our heritage.
@duaneelliott5194
8 жыл бұрын
Never heard of the escandido california nation. If you don't know the name of your nation just say so, as for the corruption that's what happens when you let a foreign nation tell you who you are 😡
@abeschreier
9 жыл бұрын
As a counterpoint, the amalgamation of Amerindians transported to distant worlds does have a basis in historical fact (although the writer's do not have the luxury of claiming this excuse.) Both the collapse of the late Mississippians in the 1400s and 1500s, the annihilation of the Neutrals and Huron by the imperialistic Iroquois in the 1600s, and the mass displacement and relocation of Eastern Woodland Indians 1700s (including the Delaware) saw considerable cultural and political amalgamation of their refugee survivors. The conscious self-construction of a Pan-Indian (or "Red-skin") identity, vis-a-vis the white Other, reached its apex in the Tecumseh and Red Stick Revolts of the early 1800s and the Plains Wars of the mid-late 1800s.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+TheShah Yes and YES. Thank you for bringing this up here. And it is a great counterpoint. You are 100% on the money.
@Thurston86
6 жыл бұрын
Great job on this vid! As a Native American, I fully appreciated your take on this. I myself am never “offended” by seeing things like TOS’s “The Paradise Syndrome”, (I usually just find it numerous) but I do see where someone else would be. Seems like you put a lot of effort into this video and I just wanted to say Thank you. For this and all the other Trekspertise that I am currently bingeing. Glad I found your channel! BTW, I have no idea why someone would “revile” Chakotay.
@Trekspertise
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Glad you found us, too. If Native is your jam, then check out our interview with Kiowa Sci-Fi writer Russel bates, in the "The Serpent's Tooth" video. Insightful guy.
@PDOGG9365
3 жыл бұрын
Russell Bates, who wrote the animated episode "how sharper than a serpent's tooth" was native American and he was my grandpa. The episode won an Emmy, but he was sadly not given any credit.
@Trekspertise
3 жыл бұрын
Check out our interview with Mr. Bates.
@Trekspertise
3 жыл бұрын
Did we meet when we came to Anadarko to interview Russell?
@PDOGG9365
3 жыл бұрын
We probably meet a long time ago
@rhocat362
Ай бұрын
You must be very proud!
@Ciscospm
9 жыл бұрын
Hey... I really liked your analisys... one thing I belive your dismising is the fact that cultures do evolve, and some times become a rare mix of diferent cultures, take for example latin american culture, I am from Medellín, Colombia, and the way my culture has evolve to adapt other customs, traditions and simbols in the las 200 years, may mimic what supposedly hapened in Star Trek... Just imagine 3 diferent cultural and etnic bakgrounds stuck together between the montains... imagine the same thing in a space ship crossing the galaxy for whatever time they were looking for the perfect planet.... what i am trying to say is that some times cultural phenomenon don't act the way you predict it.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Ciscospm You are quite right and I concede your point. I wish I had acknowledged this in the video, but my run time was already 20 minutes.
@badjokemaker3051
9 жыл бұрын
I think the dominant monoculture makes sence in the cardassian, klingon and romulan context. they are aggressive and expansive and their present culture is forged by it.
@timothypage252
8 жыл бұрын
I thought that the "Reductionism" of TNG was the result of cultural evolution (yes, it happens for them, too) and centuries of globalism.
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
This isn't a bad in-universe theory.
@swiety765
8 жыл бұрын
You pointed out that some guy in funny uniform and some fancy core stimulator on his nech (talking hologram gave it to him btw) use wrong thing to get internal vision... Yeah, very offensive jumble. :P You yourself noticed that entire Star Trek is about reductionism. Every Klingon is a warrior, every Ferengi is greedy. The is no other way to present a new culture in one episode than simplyfy it. So maybe it would be better if they just made up some atient nation than use Native Americans? And one thing... Can you explain me why "white savior" trope has to be always the bad thing? Are you saying, that in this episode it would be better if they all ended dead?
@Mr8lacklp
7 жыл бұрын
swiety765 but that is not the case, throughout the different series we meet klingon scientists we meet pherengi who join starlet and Vulkans who try to explore their emotions. Besides it is different to simplify a fictional culture than to do that to an existing one
@tombrown407
7 жыл бұрын
Bingo.
@robertanthony8227
7 жыл бұрын
the Star Nations are real to the native Americans ..an the link to the stars, the chakinas are Et beings some native Americn a Indians truce back there andetery to the stars an Univerce
@a8lg6p
9 жыл бұрын
Was that CGI clip from Assassin's Creed?
@HiddenPalm
9 жыл бұрын
I can't believe I didn't know about your channel. Good stuff! Looking forward to seeing more projects like this.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+HiddenPalm Welcome aboard =)
@nick5661
8 жыл бұрын
regarding the native Americans on dovan 5 and chakotay, wouldn't it be possible that they have ancestors from various tribes. I have very little knowledge of there history but surly now a days they are not separated by tribes as much as they used to. Also forgive my ignorance about native American history as i live in the UK
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
+Nicholas Castleton Yes, it would be possible. In fact, that would be a very interesting explanation for the Star Trek universe, to have the people of Dorvan 5 be an amalgamation of various surviving people. This has happened A LOT in US history...for example, the Seminole are not a traditional nation, but a collection of survivors that banded together to fight the colonial invaders. The people of Anadarko, Oklahoma today are also a mix of 5 or so various nations of people, stuck together because of decisions by the federal government. The problem, however, is that collecting the 500 or so nations of Native America together into one people has a rather negative history in the United States. Euro-Americans had done this for centuries in order to broadly discriminate, antagonize and conquer. Distinctions between groups were also purposefully ignored once motion pictures got started, under the pretense of "simplifying" villain characters and narratives for audiences. Hollywood has a long tradition of doing this, which is why the circumstances of Native Americans in Star Trek is suspect...it is part of a longer tradition of racist, broad strokes over native peoples. Ultimately, an in-universe explanation like that of the Seminole would be preferable. It would certainly be more interesting, to me at least.
@joseantoniogomez8524
9 жыл бұрын
A well constructed analysis on the strengths and weaknesses of portraying Native Americans in futuristic media.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+Jose Antonio Gomez Thank you =)
@thecraziestofalldave
9 жыл бұрын
I always saw the portrayal of sub units of earth played like st does it as not terrible. people who wanna stay apart stay apart, fuck what the rest say. at least voyager tried to show a bit of culture in a limited way, they couldn't make it the chakotay let's be accurate ini every way show" the makers tried, it's not like they set out to insult anyone, in fact; production and fan wise, they tried their best to be federation people about it... that's all i do, i try to just be a federation hewman...
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
thecraziestofalldave That they did. And to their credit. The impulse that led to Ensign Walking Bear and Chakotay is a good impulse. A Star Trek impulse.
@SatoshiMatrix1
9 жыл бұрын
A very interesting and insightful discussion for sure. What isn't discussed here is that Star Trek is American entertainment first and foremost, with any social, racial or sexual ideology a distant second to making a story entertaining. By the very nature of the medium of television, you need to be selective with what you present, and always ensure what you present is entertaining. I'm not saying that Kyle is wrong in his analysis of how native Americans were portrayed on Trek, but I do think that generalizations are inevitable considering that Trek is a TV show. I see the mixing of native cultures into single individuals such as Chakotay as not being reductionist, but inclusive. Take into consideration the limitations of Television and also looking at other characters who represent entire nations, especially Sulu representing _all_ of Asia - not just Japan- for Trek. I think that writers mixed aspects of different native cultures not only because it was convenient to the purposes of formulating interesting and compelling plots, but also to include those native cultures in Trek. From a certain perspective, having Chakotay be Mayan without traits of other native cultures would be _excluding_ them from Trek, as it isn't likely there would ever be a Trek series having multiple native American people from different tribal backgrounds. I do see the problem that overgeneralizing causes, but I see the mixing of native peoples into one as a sign of benevolence on the writers part to ensure that native people watching Star Trek could find a character they identify with, even if only partly.
@JmsNmnn
9 жыл бұрын
I recently discovered your videos and I think they're great. I'm sorry you haven't gotten more exposure. You really deserve it. Please keep making them
@randomrant3886
6 жыл бұрын
I am glad there was a follow up with the author of the Serpents Tooth.
@hydrolito
2 жыл бұрын
John Luke Picard is supposed to be French but speaks with British accent.
@Bow-to-the-absurd
Жыл бұрын
Who ???
@charlesweber4419
8 жыл бұрын
Bravo Sir... Bravo.. You've got my vote to be hired as a writer of Trek...
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
+Charles Weber I'll take it =)
@Fawkes42
8 жыл бұрын
Why did you cut out Tuvok's response at 14:10? Makes the scene seen kinda racist
@NotContinuum
8 жыл бұрын
I always liked that scene, in a way. It pointed out that not everyone is trying to make racist assumptions. No one was saying that, because Chakotay is Native American, he must be able to use a bow, and it's stupid to automatically assume that he does. No one was saying it, except for Chakotay himself. :)
@StormsandSaugeye
8 жыл бұрын
A major problem here deals with a failure of you part unfortunately. For example, whether specific stereotypes about people are used for the purposes of inclusiveness. Since Native Americans are a spectrum of different cultures and beliefs, trying to specify as much as possible to say Navajo, would leave Creek Shawnee and Miami descendants (My family background) feeling excluded. Being vague but touching on common mono-myths which can be seen across multiple cultures is a way of being inclusive. That is, we look at it and identify with it even if it isn't about our specific system of beliefs. There is enough in there that we can identify with it without feeling insulted by the stereotype itself. That is partially why Chakotay and his cultural background is jumbled. It is not malicious, nor is it unintentionally so, it makes sense in context of inclusiveness. Which makes the critique of TNG on kind of perplexing. The series went the extra mile to be inclusive but it still gets flack from non natives about portrayals of Native Americans. This lends to an issue where the only ones who find it offensive are folks who seem to be offended for the sake of someone else. Examinations of crowd reactions to episodes of star trek wind up revealing a different story than the perspectives offered here. For instance, Indian Stereotypes in TV Science Fiction: First Nations' Voices Speak Out. Details Shoshone reactions to the TNG and Voyager episodes concerning specific native american issues. The problems were not with it being watered down, but on how everything was made sacred, and that the characterization was such that people couldn't get involved. The latter is a common theme though as most of Voyager was criticized for this very same thing. This feels a lot like a similar article I once read though, it's titled “A Cuchi Moya!” - Star Trek’s Native Americans by Katja Kanzler. Did you take a lead from that specific article?
@Trekspertise
8 жыл бұрын
+Amy This is valid and necessary criticism. It is understandable how inclusion through stereotype can represent a positive function. I think the more nuanced position I should have taken in regards to this stereotype element is how those same stereotypes were used historically to disenfranchise Native America and now used for different ends. For a show like Star Trek, which supposedly is largely about inclusion of American minorities into a white dominated space (science fiction), I would expect a more positive interpretation like the one you present here. Very interesting. However. In this case, it is the white half of the audience that makes the critique of TNG important...white America is largely still clueless when it comes to Native America. Star Trek: The Next Generation gets positive marks for being a largely progressive show, and "Journey's End" had a lot going for it in terms of native representation and native agency. But...the tradition of the stereotyped form of the American Indian hasn't changed for white America. That is not a problem for someone in your position, but for a typical white audience member who wants to be more inclusive of their American brothers and sisters...they don't get any new information about native America. There is nothing new to understand. The same stereotype form that was once used to dispossess is now used to reaffirm liberal America's new desire to expand their ideas of inclusivity. A time traveler from a century ago wouldn't know how to pick apart the subtly of positive and negative meaning there, perhaps. The thing that's changed is white America's attitudes regarding race and inclusion. Star Trek It funny, because usually stereotypes are regarded as harmful to everyone. But, in this case, there is a clear difference of perception for the audience. Frankly, if I were still in the social sciences, I'd find this an irresistible topic to study. I totally get how this is very different for a native person and I understand and accept your points regarding the use of stereotypes and inclusivity. It is fascinating and I'd like to explore more. In fact, the very next episode of Trekspertise is an interview with a Native American writer, Russell Bates, who helped win an emmy for Star Trek. In regards to "A Cuchi Moya", yes I read it after I released this episode. It's makes important points, I feel.
@dn2ze
8 жыл бұрын
+Amy look up Dene and learn something cool..
@sergeson
9 жыл бұрын
Admittedly, I enjoyed this entire series of videos except this one. My thinking isn’t in alignment so I’ll make a few points and hopefully someone can tell me where I’m wrong. In TOS, Paradise Syndrome, you argue that because Kirk is Caucasian, and the Indians worship him, that there is the “Euro-Savior” complex. Just after the scene where Kirk emerges from their Sacred Temple, the village chief says that the gods will send someone from the sky who will save them. The Indian Chief reasons that since Kirk came from the temple, he must be this savior. However it stands to reason that if Janeway, Chakotay, or Cisco had come out of temple instead of Kirk, the villagers would have worshipped that person as a god. As far as Spock’s comment about the tribe being too primitive to understand the concept of an asteroid hitting their planet, since when does a lack of technological sophistication or knowledge point to racism? The counter-argument says that it would be better to explain to the tribe what is actually happening. We see the disastrous results of this by looking to “Who Watches the Watchers” from TNG. Another example of racism shown is that the female indian can’t figure out how to get Kirk’s shirt off. I wonder how many times you’ve had something in front of you and you said to yourself “How does this thing work?” Or “How does this thing open?” So because she is Indian and can’t figure out how something works then it must be racist? Within a few scenes, Kirk adorns the clothes of the tribe and his Indian wife becomes pregnant with his child. Obviously she figured out how to get his uniform off. In TNG “Journey’s End”, you do know that Wesley doesn’t save the Indian tribes. Wesley pulled himself out of their time only to have the Traveller tell him that he needs to let the people work this out for themselves. Wesley agrees, turns away and the fire fight continues. The episode ends with the Indians making an agreement with the Cardassians that they can stay on the planet. I agree that Hollywood has done a poor job of representing American Indians in a proper light. While you call “Paradise Syndrome” the most racist episode of the ST cannon, I would argue that at a time where American Indians were the throw away villains in numerous television shows and movies, this one episode portrayed them as a peaceful people. Their only downfall was putting their faith in a false god. What saved them was knowledge and technology.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
+sergeson Well, for starters, thank you for watching! Welcome to the crew =) Concerning your points regarding Native America in Star Trek, here is what I can say: 1) Regarding the white savior narrative, you are right it does not matter who came out of the tent. The people in the episode would have worshipped that person. But, the problem lies in that no native peoples ever were that stupid or blinded by any religion. No natives worshipped anyone from Europe as a god or otherwise. These kinds of backward people only exist in the imaginations of European-based peoples. In truth, Indians were sophisticated people running sometimes huge civilizations who made political, economic and military decisions based on an ever-changing context. 2) Why would Spock assume that the Native Americans on the planet are too primitive to understand what an asteroid is? Well, its pretty simple. If you were to bump into humans anywhere else in the universe, why wouldn't you assume that they were familiar with the structure of the galaxy and space travel asteroids? I mean, they aren't on earth, right? They got there somehow? In "Journey's End", Picard didn't make the assumption that the Native Americans on that planet were too stupid to understand space travel, so why would Spock do that? The truth is that its just another Hollywood stereotype imported into Star Trek for convenience of an all white audience. 3) The female indian lives in a society where shirts exist. Humans everywhere are smarter than this. People in Oceania who still use stone tools can figure out how to take a shirt off. This was just another attempt to cary over that suite of Hollywood stereotypes. 4) I understand how "Journey's End" works. But, Wesley's tactics are designed to block and delay the Federation. it doesn't make any sense as to why the native characters could not do that themselves. And this issue is at the heart of every white savior narrative, which is why the contours of "Journey's End" fits that style so well. 5) Indians were not saved by technology. In fact, the technology factored meant nothing for the first two centuries after contact with Europe. Each time European armies tried to conquer one nation or another in the Americas, they would fail without massive support from other Native Americans. Cortes is said to have conquered the Aztecs, for example? Not with his rag tag team of conquistadors he didn't. He amassed tens of thousands of Native Americans, already organized into massive armies, recruiting from hundreds of Nations in Mexico that had a serious score to settle with the Aztecs. Only then, did Cortes do anything. Such was the case across much of the Americas. If you are looking for the crucial factor that gave Europe the upper hand in the conquest of the Americas, it was never technology. It was disease. Disease, introduced by Europeans wiped out 90% of human life in the Western Hemisphere in the century after contact. If it were not for disease, no amount of technology would have helped the Europeans. The Americas today would look extremely different and the Europeans would have stayed on their little peninsula. As fora one true god...that is very subjective.
@sergeson
9 жыл бұрын
+Trekspertise - Thanks for responding! :) Like your videos, I’m only looking at the world through the “lens of Star Trek”. With that being said, I’d like to be clear on one point. I’m not referring to the history of American Indian interactions with Europeans. I’m only speaking about Star Trek. My comment regarding belief in a false god was a reference to their belief in Kirk. “Technology saved them” was in reference to Spock pushing a button on a control panel in the temple, a laser fires and deflects the asteroid. For your points: (1) “No natives worshipped anyone from Europe as a god or otherwise.” I can’t attest to this statement. If you have some time, I recommend that you google “Cargo Cult” and read the wikipedia page. (2) Your Statement: “In "Journey's End", Picard didn't make the assumption that the Native Americans on that planet were too stupid to understand space travel, so why would Spock do that?” I think the answer to this is simple. The Indians in “Journey’s End” spent years searching for a planet that they could call home. They decided on Dorman 5. Then the Federation relocated them there. Picard knew the Indians lived on Dorman 5. When he and the Admiral spoke at the beginning of the episode, he knew all about them and their history. Because the Indians chose this planet, this would suggest that they certainly are aware of intergalactic space travel, celestial bodies, warp drive, etc. In “Paradise Syndrome”, Spock didn’t know that the life-forms on the planet were Indians until they saw their village. It wasn’t until 2/3’s of the way through the episode that Spock figured out how the Indians got there. This leads to your question which was “Why would Spock assume that the Native Americans on the planet are too primitive to understand what an asteroid is?” From what can be seen in the episode, there are no signs of manufacturing, construction or technology. There’s no power grid or sewer system. Since Spock is a scientist, I think his assumption is based on the technology that could be observed and reasoned that they were too primitive to understand. Replace the Native American Indians with the first European Colonists to America and Spock’s statement about being too primitive would still be applicable. Picard is also “guilty” of making this same assumption. In Star Trek Insurrection, the Enterprise Crew beams down to the Baku’s planet. Seeing no sign of technology, Picard assumes they are primitive. When the Baku demonstrate they are a warp capable species, Picard is embarrassed and apologies. Also I’d like to point out that Spock does not assume that the Indians are “too stupid”. He never mentions the word “stupid”. Stupid and primitive are two very different words with very different meanings. (3) Just because someone does not know how something works does not mean they are stupid. (4) “Wesley's tactics are designed to block and delay the Federation. it doesn't make any sense as to why the native characters could not do that themselves.” The Indians rejected the notion that they were supposed to leave the planet. In secret, the Enterprise crew decided to beam the Indians off the planet against their will. This was known only to the Enterprise crew. The Indians were completely unaware of this until Wesley warned them. Wesley is only privy to this information because he’s a Starfleet cadet. In your statement that the Indians could have done this on their own, I don’t understand or see how. To resist, the Indians first had to learn of the crew plans. Once the Indians learned of the crews plans from Wesley, they resisted on their own. Warning the Indians is the only tactic Wesley employed. The Indians did remain on the planet after they worked out an agreement with the Cardassians. If Wesley negotiated with the Cardassians, then I could understand the “Euro-savior” comment. But he didn’t. In this case, when you state “Why couldn’t the Indians do this themselves” - they did. They worked out a deal with the Cardassians.
@Trekspertise
9 жыл бұрын
Well said. I cannot refute these points. You'll make commander in no time =)
@sergeson
9 жыл бұрын
+Trekspertise I certainly am looking forward to Season 2. You (and your crew) have done a fantastic job with season 1.
@Eggomania86
9 жыл бұрын
Here's my biggest problem with star trek on how human culture is represented, every thing is based in California starfleet HQ ect. Everyone has an American northern accent. Specifically californian or mid west accents. You'd think you'd see characters from New York or the deep south. How about middle easterners or Africans or Indians. Or ethnic groups from different European countries. You don't see Italian characters or Scandinavian characters. In star trek I think they do need to do a better job representing more of humanity other than the mid west californian culture. I think it would be better if they represented other cultures from different species. Like Klingons and Vulcans from different regions from their world's and their perspective cultures and differences they represent and different dialects of their language.
@DataLal
9 жыл бұрын
Eggomania86 Well, there is Bones for the "deep south" accent. He himself is a mashup (stereotype) of the entire "South" U.S. - which is NOT a homogenous group of people. They ain't all sippin' mint juleps and eatin' catfish. Tucker from "Enterprise" was almost a clone of Bones' stereotype, with a more Texan-ish accent rather than Bones' somewhat Alabamian or Georgian-ish accent (TBH Bones' accent doesn't have a specific location). But the change to a Texan-ish accent could have been influenced by the fact that George W. Bush was President, and was therefore a good shorthand for all things "non-progressive", like Tucker's racism and general idiocy towards everything outside of a warp core, namely T'Pol (who was also racist and idiotic, but in a different fashion). Now and then they do throw in a character with obvious Indian origins and the accent to boot. (See: the officer in distress in "A Voyage Home" who I think was either on a ship in trouble because of the Probe, or was making a distress/warning call to the rest of the Federation from Earth because of the Probe's damaging effects. I can't remember. But he was distinctly Indian. Or Pakistani, or Sri Lankan, if such distinctions exists by the 23rd Century). And the Middle East basically gets Dr. Bashir. Woo hoo. But you are right. They could definitely do better.
@MULTIgamingBROSuk
9 жыл бұрын
i tried making a foundry project on star trek online representing tense political stand points across europe and asia. i even managed to put a starfleet HQ varient in birmingham, UK, and japan but my project was flagged for racial offenses? i did nothing wrong but put a HQ in anywhere BUT america? when i inquired about this to cryptic entertainment, they said that it is "nationally offensive". very interesting...
@exilestudios9546
9 жыл бұрын
+MULTIgamingBROSuk its a company run by rich fat white nerds who love murica more than life
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