Part 2's are never easy, but let me know what you think and sub for good luck
@joshuabarbeau9296
Жыл бұрын
Yo, dude. Cool video. I think you should check out the "fortnine - stealership" video on KZitem by Ryan. Never hurts to have a little more info to support yourself and fortnine makes some entertaining videos. Keep it up man.
@_Chev_Chelios
Жыл бұрын
You need to learn some basics about supply and demand. I bet you don’t complain when dealerships charge less than the MSRP for cars or when the leases are subvented or subsidized to make the cars cheaper when there’s not enough demand and there’s too much supply. But when there’s very little supply, and a lot of demand, which makes prices go up, then ignorant people like you complain and whine. Guess what genius: in economic systems with price controls everyone becomes much poorer and you quickly won’t have any fancy cars to talk about, so you should learn to shut your mouth when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
@getahanddown
Жыл бұрын
Good on you for looking at peoples criticism of your formula. As an analyst seeing your first try made my eyes fall out :)
@kalmmonke5037
Жыл бұрын
how abot a discord server with hagerty , frank stepenson etc, comments get cowabungad here so its much mor elkley youl actualy see messages that are not useless on there tan in here. u guys cn do events like design events even f its ust aeshetics, then put those most voted for stuff on tee shirts so people buy them as merch.
@Yayforsteve
Жыл бұрын
What about electric cars?
@metallicamaniac318
Жыл бұрын
I wholeheartedly agree with that "dealerships will become extinct" idea. The way we are shifting to streamline everything is kind of what has convinced me, along with the horrid practices seen during and post pandemic. Japan already does direct to consumer with their domestics (im not sure about their imports), and it seems to be working as customer satisfaction is apparent. Jobs will shift, they always have and always will as new tech comes.
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
I didn't know that about Japan! So are they delivered to the houses or do people go pick up the car?
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
it'll be hard to do.. they have a VERY robust Union at the top level.. They're dug in pretty damn good.. But I agree.. Just have a customer experience/service center for test drives and work that needs to be done.. Actually.. it's basically the CarMax model, but for new cars.. People are hourly.. not commission, so no forced sales or shenanigans like that.. CarMax does do work on the vehicles on site.. I've never purchased a car from them, but while used car prices were so high, I sold them 2 cars.. 19' GTI S manual.. 21' CTR.. Couldn't believe what they were offering so I took it.. The experience and process was smooth both times.
@YourOwnStupidity
Жыл бұрын
I believe they still operate dealers but the process of factory ordering your car is super common in Asia. Rather than getting whatever is on the lot, most people just request the exact spec they want and get it either delivered to the dealer or directly to your house. I think it's more common because there's less land to store your inventory but it's worked in the favor of the factory order model. Toyota's US allocation process is archaic and makes me hate American dealers with a passion.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
@@YourOwnStupidity +1 on their allocation process.. I found out about this when I put my deposit down for a GR86 last year.. "We don't know what we're going to get until it gets here or maybe 2-3 days before it gets into port".. There were 3 people 'in line' ahead of me for a Gr86.. Went with something else instead, lol.
@brianfox340
Жыл бұрын
I think this will happen much later than we expect/hope. Lobbying can push back common sense changes to laws that protect car dealerships from direct competition with manufacturers, and fixing that horribly broken system will be fought hard with money made from these markups.
@MrLense
Жыл бұрын
I agree on Auto journalists being better. When High End PC gaming components were being scalped and Nvidia decided to launch the RTX 4000 series way overpriced, everyone from Linus to small tech journalists dogged on the prices. Seems Auto Journalists just take things at msrp and ignore reality.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
All they can really do.. It's not like they're setting the prices.. All tehy can do say 'IF you can get these at MSRP', which some of the other YT car folks do.. Big companies like C&D or Motorweek.. They might be tooo 'in bed' with the manufacturers to really express what they feel.. You know.. dont bite the hand that feeds kinda deal
@giltyakhtar
Жыл бұрын
Absolute facts! The markup on the shitty RTX 4000 series GPUS and even the AMD 7900 XTX series is ridiculous that they had every right to being called out on it and get it "unlaunched".
@Muhluri
Жыл бұрын
Journos are too scared of getting blacklisted because they get paid to review cars. Tech guys are better because it’s not super expensive to buy hardware to review and they usually have other ways of making money
@aaronbarkley539
Жыл бұрын
That’s a really good comparison as I just built a PC not too long ago and it was hard to find deals that weren’t going to break the bank.
@redey1290
Жыл бұрын
So true about the 4000 series. The 4070 is rumored to be $750, insane!!!
@CateChapelle
Жыл бұрын
“do you really want the government telling you who you can or cannot buy from?” As if that’s not the entire reason dealerships exist
@gonzalesg0221
Жыл бұрын
.
@hiramesensei3112
Жыл бұрын
lmao, yup. a problem caused entirely be regulations. and people just clamor for more regulations to fix it.
@Lobo_Argent
Жыл бұрын
@@hiramesensei3112because regulations that may help the consumer are not the same as ones that hurt consumers.
@hiramesensei3112
Жыл бұрын
@@Lobo_Argent lol. no politician ever passed a regulation to "hurt consumers". here's how it goes: "we must pass x regulation to solve y problem and protect the consumer" regulation passes, doesnt solve the problem, creates new problems, begin cycle again, repeat to infinity
@byronjones4635
Жыл бұрын
THANK YOU!!!!
@seans.7857
Жыл бұрын
I went to try and get a gr corolla and my local dealer put a $20,000 mark up. Now, for me personally, I could not afford that kind of price and I'm sick and tired of dealerships adding dealer mark ups to almost ever vehicle.
@manuelpiston
Жыл бұрын
Same here but it was 10k for me
@cholodude97
Жыл бұрын
20k mark up? Hell no. To hell with dealerships.
@raze_6474
Жыл бұрын
Try AutoNation. They sold my civic at msrp by default
@alejandrocespedes1544
Жыл бұрын
I just wanted the SE Corolla hatch, which has a 23k MSRP btw. The dealership has it at 25k MSRP, and THEN added a 2k markup. I think I'm going to get it anyway because the car market is beyond garbage in my area, where even elantras are going above MSRP. Might as well get shafted with a car I want.
@silvy3047
Жыл бұрын
Supply and demand
@yammienoob
Жыл бұрын
tbh the insanity of the car market is what keeps me in the motorcycle world. I've wanted a 997 GT3 for 8 years now, and every year it gets that little bit extra out of reach and hard to justify. To the point where a decent one is $140,000+ all day. Although, I am currently pining for an ND miata. Luckily those are still regularly priced (for now).
@manuelpiston
Жыл бұрын
You are a bad person. No one likes you. Spite made your channel. Shame on you.
@kailara8002
Жыл бұрын
Ik you say to just get a used beat up sv650 as a first bike but I rather just get a turbo BUSA and slam my self into a brick wall
@kailara8002
Жыл бұрын
I also feel like motorcycles just didn't get hit with that huge dealer markup just due to how little riders there are considered to the rest of America car drivers
@cccraigslist
Жыл бұрын
ugh didn't you cross the mustard and smack a car head on
@munin9530
Жыл бұрын
i remember a friend of mine who wanted a used miata in 2019 when he said it was around 3k, but fast forward to today he says he couldnt find one under 7k, reaching up to 20k for a used *miata*
@JoeyVilleneuve
Жыл бұрын
Repeating myself from the last video. This entire problem is a USA problem because there are no laws preventing mark-ups. In Canada, dealers cannot sell above MSRP unless they add something to the car. Dealership fees are illegal as well, no matter how hard they try to twist it and make you believe they can.
@ulisesavila2879
Жыл бұрын
This. Usa is the only country with that problem.
@muradmatoug5272
Жыл бұрын
My North American brother, thank you for comment! The car market in Europe had issues with unholy price increases too but no car was ever sold over the MSRP. In Europe (Germany) it is quite common to buy a car with 20% discount at your local dealership or a wholesaler. It seems that the term stock turn rate is unknown in the US…
@impreza0109
Жыл бұрын
@@ulisesavila2879 Philippines too. Well, more in line with a provision in our constitution being a problem. a-to-b cars are priced fairly, sometimes at a discount, but something like a BRZ is priced at around $45k, MX-5 at 37k on the most basic model. Oh, and that price is set in stone. You can't haggle or talk it down.
@BMWVX
Жыл бұрын
Yes, but some @sshole dealers sell the in demand cars to their friends who then sell these cars on the Used car market for the same mark-up which then they split between themselves. $$ I also know that if you wanted a GT4RS in Toronto (GTA), some dealers would suggest gifting them a Rolex to maybe get an allocation… so yeah, F that. Direct to consumer FTW!
@baronvonjo1929
Жыл бұрын
Can they be sold below MSRP in Canada?
@dumpsterjedi9323
Жыл бұрын
As someone who currently works service at a dealership, I don't think they should exist. If your car is too complicated for the average driveway mechanic to be able to fix, then your car sucks, and we as a society should get rid of them.
@schoolForAnts
Жыл бұрын
Cars, economics, data analysys, and responding to negative comments? This is what youtube was meant for! Keep it up Alex, your content is a fresh take on all things automotive and I look forward to what tomorrow's video will be about.
@natalyasparrow6748
Жыл бұрын
Not sure if anyone else has caught it yet, but a large part of why mom and pop type repair shops are unequipped to handle newer cars is because many brands make dealer exclusive software and diagnostic equipment that practically forces you to take it to a dealership and pay out the ass for something that would cost far less elsewhere. They do it because for the most part they've been able to get away with it, which honestly makes it hard to empathise with people who work for dealerships who stand to lose their jobs in a direct to market model. I'm sure there are good honest people who work for dealerships, but I know if I worked for an obscenely corrupt employer, I wouldn't blame people for trying to circumvent that corruption. There will always be a place for skilled mechanics and service people, who will probably see a quality of life improvement as well once the bulk of the money isn't going to high-ranking executives, glamourous show floors, and annoying TV ads.
@creepyypaper1438
Жыл бұрын
All that car companies have done for me over the last three years is confirm and set in stone for me that I will only be buying 30 year old cars for the rest of my life. Alls I need is my CRX and an obs truck.
@thundertracker4510
Жыл бұрын
As a frenchman, the dealer markups are an insane concept to me. Here, you can configure and order the car from the website, and go and pick the car up from the dealership, or you can order the car directly from the dealership, no fuss, no drama. And the price is the same whether you order online or in person. Same concept with sales tax, why don't you include that in the price written on the sticker?
@k0zzu21
Жыл бұрын
Because the tax varies between states while the market is the whole country. Imagine if you would market a product or service to the entirety of EU when all member countries have a different VAT.
@thundertracker4510
Жыл бұрын
@@k0zzu21 okay but why can't they just say something like "1.99+local tax" in the marketing and just have the actual price in the store. It is a budgeting nightmare, you basically have to walk around with a calculator. I guess you get used to it over time, but I don't think it's something I'd be able to comprehend in the short term if I were to move to the us
@k0zzu21
Жыл бұрын
@@thundertracker4510 It's just a few percent so it's not a big deal. Some states don't even have a sales tax.
@itsasadbunny
Жыл бұрын
@@k0zzu21 Yea but if your in California then your local grocery store purchase would be taxed under California's sales tax, no? Or does it only apply tax to where you come from? Online it already shows you the tax, in person they just add the sales tax to the sticker price, sure California grocery store may sell product A at $6.99 while Illinois grocery sells product A at $7.29, why does it matter if they show different prices since the end result at the cashier of that specific store will always be dependent on the state sales tax?
@sawyermartin4434
Жыл бұрын
Your sales tax owed on a vehicle is based on where you are registering the vehicle at. Auto sales tax varies from state to state, & even county to county. It would be impossible to show a price including taxes unless you ONLY sold to people registering in the same county, in the same state. I'm not sure why people have a hard time understanding this.
@datguy013
Жыл бұрын
The craziest part isn't even the 150-200k+ cars getting a 50k+ markup. It's the sub 50k cars getting 25-50k markup, how are they supposed to be affordable cars when you have to pay for two of them and end up leaving the lot with it being worth less then 1???
@UR2SLO4ME
Жыл бұрын
It is important to not that these dealerships are making it more difficult for car companies to keep producing enthusiast cars as well. When cars like the GR Corolla are being sold for prices that most GR Corolla buyers cannot afford, sales of these cars decline, making car companies think there is no demand for these cars. This will lead to the extinction of enthusiast cars, which is a harsh and very sad reality we will face in the future. It’s even more sad to realize that there are so many wonderful options for cars right now, but they’re all out of budget for the targeted audience.
@lllll981
Жыл бұрын
As a VN owner I can confirm that when it comes to the rest of Hyundai's and Kia's lineup they're not very consistent with reliability and it's very hit or miss. With that being said Hyundai's N cars are built to a much higher standard and it shows. There are several N cars that have gotten close, at, or past the 100k mark with zero issues. And that's while some have been tuned and some stock. And there has hardly been any reports of any major issues with them as well. Now the reason why certain design languages and some of the other things that Hyundai/Kia takes from other manufacturers is because they have acquired many German engineers from Audi, BMW, etc. And those engineers are the reason why we are seeing these "taken elements" from other manufacturers, because they have those manufacturers' engineers. I will say that they could try to be a little bit more different, but they're definitely headed in the right direction. And one final point, how about we also start blaming the dumbass dip shits who are going to these dealerships and paying these ridiculous mark ups. Because if we stop paying for them, then maybe dealerships will be less likely to add mark ups. Both the consumer and the dealership are to blame here.
@SpartanArmy117
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the confidence haha. Just bought a Veloster N and I'm loving it. I hope the reliability holds up.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
Buy used people.. while you can.. because once new ICE vehicles are... ICED... then all the enthusiast cars that we love will go up in price because they're the last of their kind.. My 'plan' is to find some land, build a pole barn or oversized RV garage, and start collecting the enthusiast cars that I like and are still at relatively decent values.. Things like the Fiesta ST.. VW R32.. Gen 6 SS 1LE.. E30/E34/E39/E46.. E55 AMG.. Z4 3.0i ragtop.. nd1 ragtop (cheaper and I'd FI it anyway).. Currently only have one in my stable.. 987.1 Cayman S that I bought last year with 78k on the clock.. Has over a decade's worth of maintenance history (no IMS issues.. more prevalent on cars with low low miles in the 987/997 gen) and had some fairly major maintenance stuff done prior to my acquisition.. So there are gems out there people.. you just gotta do some digging to find them. Get em, fix em, and drive em.. Edit: Oh and I paid less than a new (MSRP) GR86 Premium for my Cayman.. I was cross shopping the two and just couldnt pass up the Cayman S.. Pulled my $500 deposit from my local Toyota dealer (they only charge MSRP, hence the long wait for one..) and haven't looked back.
@tylerbendis
Жыл бұрын
I work for Ford as a Service Performance Specialist, where I oversee a region of dealerships and facilitate and help implement best practices in the service department. I get what you're saying when it comes to dealerships disappearing, and the dealers who mark up a shit ton certainly don't help the cause of keeping them alive. But what I can say is this: Service will always be needed. Whether it's simple work, or recalls and warranty repair, there's always going to be that need. So when I hear dealers are worried that they won't be around much longer, it's things like this on the service side that I believe will keep them around and is something I always reassure them with. So maybe if things do shift and there's a more direct to consumer approach (I cannot speak for Ford as this is my personal opinion), I think the service side will keep dealers around. In terms of what Ford will actually do, I am way too low on the totem pole to know lol
@wyw201
Жыл бұрын
Why not turn dealerships into experience and service centers. Folks buy their vehicles straight from Ford and have them serviced at your place.
@gameonyolo1
Жыл бұрын
If you simply make their monopoly illegal, aka legalize direct to consumer, dealers will stop selling cars and become smaller service centers, naturally
@realbigtuna667
Жыл бұрын
Mark ups have always been a thing on first model year "special" cars. Evo's/STis back in 2004 were bringing $5 - 15k over the first year or two they were out. I agree the current dealer model is broken, and a lot of those dealers are going to go under by the end of the decade. However, there are so many legal protections / regulations around them, it is going to be near impossible for existing manufacturers to cut them out. Will certainly be interested to see where things go by 2030.
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
I agree, but from a % would you say that the average markup is the same? That's what I find so interesting. These markups are often nearly 50% on cars. What happens when these loans default?
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
@@AlexMartini. I definitely wouldn't be financing any 'mark-ups' as a bank.. You better bring a stack or two if you want that ride cuz we'll only loan up to125% of the value of the vehicle PER the MSRP (im guessing)..
@realbigtuna667
Жыл бұрын
@@AlexMartini. Avg. markups have never been higher. Ultimately, small/medium market banks will feel the pinch. Some will fail. Bailouts will likely happen through QE, which will in turn cause more inflation.
@frankchu7190
Жыл бұрын
@RealBigTuna @AlexMartini I purchased a 2003 Evo 8 brand new in the SoCal market back in Feb 2004. There was only one at the dealership and it was still negotiated under MSRP. There were other dealers locally such as Huntington Beach Mitsu at the time that sold at or under MSRP in year. This narrative that year one special models were sold that much over msrp in the past isn’t real. The only car that I can remember that started this over msrp trend was the FK8 in year one and two, even then, a few people did get msrp.
@realbigtuna667
Жыл бұрын
@@frankchu7190 That's a hell of a deal. I remember the Mitsu dealership near me had a $10k markup on the Evo VIII back in 2004. It was the only one they were getting that year. Subsequent years the ADM was removed. Subaru dealer had a $5k markup on their first couple of STi's as well, but that was short lived. In 2012 when the Boss 302 came out, local Ford dealer was asking $10k over MSRP. C6 Z06s had $10-15k markups on them when they first came out at the Chevy dealer near me. It's absolutely true that ADMs have never been this high or widespread. But my point is that this is not the first time dealers have put ADMs on certain vehicles.
@justinturner4850
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for preaching the truth about this. Markups are destroying enthusiast cars.
@br8745
Жыл бұрын
Biggest problem is Supply vs Demand. Dealerships wouldn't have mark-ups if people weren't buying them for the marked up price. It sucks, but Dealerships are just following their incentive structure Bigger problem is two fold: 1. Manufacturers build a limited number of performance variants (think Honda Type R, Corolla Gr, etc.) which leads to a low supply/high demand problem. 2. Car enthusiasts are not very large demographic, and spilt into 2 groups, Wealthy vs Non-wealthy. And the non-wealthy get frustrated when they get priced out by the competition with the Wealthy for the limited "affordable" performance variants that the manufacturer produced. Biggest problem is on the supply and demand, not the middle man.
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
Interesting! I know some BMW designers were over there for a bit as well.
@Godspeed931
Жыл бұрын
Agree 120%. Let's also not forget that some platforms like the GR Corolla have production targets based on homologation rules (not supply or customer demand).
@ayoitsyayo
Жыл бұрын
If dealership employees lose their job they’ll just choose the next worst thing, realtors, same trash different can
@savagegeese
Жыл бұрын
You cannot just look at this issue of car pricing in the bubble of the past 2 years. If you go back and look at pricing in 2019 many many enthusiasts cars we're going for sticker or less. FK8 for example, 991.2 GT3, Camaro, Mustang GT350, Miata. In the past two years you've had low Supply from factories slowing down and everyone was buying cars. And yes Enthusiast cars take the biggest hit because they're not vehicles that people need, they are a luxury. So when we do a big comparison video on affordable cars people will get all bent out of shape that they can't get the cars for MSRP but when they watch the video three years later when the unemployment rate is higher and people don't have disposable income for fun cars those prices will be back down to normal. So what I'm saying is pricing is relative. When PlayStation 5 launched you couldn't get one unless you wanted to pay a scalper on eBay. Now a couple years later if you're willing to wait a little bit you can get one. It's going to be the same way with cars unfortunately it requires a lot of patience.
@AutoEnthusiastJC
Жыл бұрын
Guess time will tell. Everyone keep saying housing will correct itself, yet we may never go back to affordability. 🤷🏼♂️
@CheesusSVT
Жыл бұрын
Take that money you would have spent on that markup, and buy your dream car. 😋👍 Screw dealerships.
@hannak.5401
Жыл бұрын
While I agree with some of the points about Hyundai, i’d like to mention that I bought a 2008 Hyundai i30. Got it of off some grandpa who was the first owner. Has about 120k km on it.Been driving it for almost two years no trouble at all. The only thing I found is that it is very slow😅 but that’s my problem for not looking into it more before buying.
@christianhristov6231
Жыл бұрын
Cars were a different thing 15 years ago. Compare a 2008 Mercedes and a 2023 Mercedes and it is obvious
@hannak.5401
Жыл бұрын
@@christianhristov6231 that is true yes
@pol.86
Жыл бұрын
Personally, I don't think hyundai/kia steal designs or tech anymore. Maybe 10 years ago. But now, their designs are all unique across their models and now they're helping lead the EV segment with ioniq 5, 6 and EV6, GV60,70.
@silvy3047
Жыл бұрын
Hyundai shill spotted
@pol.86
Жыл бұрын
@@silvy3047 im a car shill
@mikezobl9602
Жыл бұрын
The dealership employees complaining about job losses from will be forgotten after a few years, it sucks but that's how the world works. Just like how nobody cares about all the telephone operators, gas station attendants, milk delivery men, elevator operators, or newspaper criers that got phased out when their jobs became obsolete.
@Carlos.Rivera
Жыл бұрын
They can flip burgers
@OBsurdityTV
Жыл бұрын
GOOD
@OPPU73NT
Жыл бұрын
@@Carlos.Rivera I’ll get your grandma to flip them for me💀
@OPPU73NT
Жыл бұрын
@@OBsurdityTV Lmaoo I probably finessed one of your family members to buy a car with a horrible price and I will continue to do it too😂
@Carlos.Rivera
Жыл бұрын
@@OPPU73NT good luck scavenging her grave.
@sebkjones
Жыл бұрын
The normalization metric you had in this video makes more sense than mine. I didn't like how mine so heavily prioritized low cost as laptimes don't decrease linearly with increases in cost. Great video as always, Alex!
@thegirthquake8574
Жыл бұрын
Alex, As a Kia owner, I'm interested in examples of Kia and Hyundai stealing technologies and whatnot-- not because I don't believe you but because I'm genuinely curious the subject!
@44actual
Жыл бұрын
Following for the same reasons as above.
@tizodd6
Жыл бұрын
It's not a difficult fix really: Have the government regulate markups. I.E.: NO MARKUPS...sell at, or less than MSRP. It's not complicated. But I can already hear the "Oh muh capitalism/greed😭"
@LOVE-VIBES-X-PROJECT-CARS
Жыл бұрын
Best thing companies can do is turn dealerships into service centers and then go direct to consumer. Get rid of the salesmen but keep the technicians.
@christianhristov6231
Жыл бұрын
So... Tesla
@LOVE-VIBES-X-PROJECT-CARS
Жыл бұрын
@@christianhristov6231 pretty much except with the wider coverage that most car brands have. For instance I live in SC so if I owned a Tesla and needed service my only option is Raleigh NC (3 hours away) or Savannah GA (2.5 hours away). Every other brand is 5-10 minutes away from my house.
@markb1935
Жыл бұрын
I cannot wait unit car dealerships are gone. My money is more important than the dealerships. In Australia $45k AUD Mk5 Supra MSRP…. $95k AUD at the dealership, and that’s the base model without the bells and whistles.
@radicalsprites
Жыл бұрын
As a current Kia owner, I’m scared of going over 80 lmaooo
@RGBRacing
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact if they sell at msrp they still make profit. Msrp is basically the manufacturer suggested markup so even 5k over msrp is a lot
@f14dbombcat
Жыл бұрын
I had an interview today at a Chevy dealership, a step of where I want to be. I hope I get it 🙏. Cheers streamer
@iluvcakes19
Жыл бұрын
I've had my Hyundai for 13 years and 150k miles. That car has been dead reliable. Only replaced the clutch once.
@Tenletters_was_taken
Жыл бұрын
I had a 2015 Kia Forte 5 SX. Basically the same specs as the Veloster N, with 4 doors and at 99k miles, I had a cylinder collapse. In total, was looking at about $7k to put in another USED engine or $5.5k to rebuild but luckily, I got it certified pre-owned so the warranty covered it at the dealership. After it was fixed, I relaized I had not gone asian enough in my automotive investment so I sold it and bought a 2015 Lexus IS350 F-Sport. Personally, I can only recommend Hyundai/Kia IF you're getting a newer one when they switched their engines from short to long blocks and IF you get a warranty with it.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
99k miles.. damn.. I'm assuming you weren't the original owner or bought it as a CPO (certified pre-owned) vehicle, which would've kept the 100k mile warranty in tact.. sadly, if you buy a Hyundai/Kia used and it's not CPO, then you only get 5yr/60k miles on the powertrain warranty as opposed to the 10yr/100k mile warranty you get for new or CPO vehicles.
@Tenletters_was_taken
Жыл бұрын
It was a CPO (at least, I'm almost certain) but I got it at 40k miles so either way, I would've been covered by one of those warranties. If it wasn't for that, I would be literally popping off at every single KDM person in these comments for a week. Also, they did me a solid when I bought it and added 100k on top of the 40k I got the car with but thought of my car dying right before the 60k/5yr would be voided is almost a blessing in disguise.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
@@Tenletters_was_taken Yea. I've heard of them messing up but making good on it. I had an ex co-worker who had a 1st gen Santa Fe that got lemoned.. Since we were so close to the factory in Montgomery, AL.. They just told him to drive up and pick one off the assembly line.. THis was like 15 years ago.. I was floored. Glad to see things worked out for you.. And my bad for not reading your whole post.. answered my own question, lol..
@devjyarn
Жыл бұрын
I remember when I was in school and I was told if I got a degree and a job I could afford a house and a car. Bogus!
@andresperez8382
Жыл бұрын
WHere I'm from, the base C8 Corvette is selling for over $120,000 on dealerships. Most of them are in the $130,000-$160,000 range
@PolymerLad
Жыл бұрын
The same sentiments you have with Hyundai/Kia is what Japanese manufacturers were dealing with 30 years ago.
@StraightClippin
Жыл бұрын
But 30 years ago Japan was dropping the hottest most iconic cars ever and Hyundai isn’t doing that now
@neauxmad1048
Жыл бұрын
The manufacturer will just become the dealership obviously. They'll probably just hire the same people that workes at the old dealerships, no? And then we still have used cars.
@thewyattfletcher
Жыл бұрын
I used the feel the same way about dealership markups, but then I realized that I'm incredibly unlikely to ever buy a new car from a dealership ever again and I therefore DGAF anymore. I actually hope that the ridiculous markup trend pushes enthusiasts to explore other types of cars as an alternative to new cars. The dynamic quality, ownership, driving, and wrenching experience available in things like '50s era customs, '60s & '70s muscle, vintage sports cars, "kit" cars, and rad era turbo oddities has a lot to offer when compared with many of the overhyped, over priced (markups!), faster-but-less-involving, numbers chasing, technological marvels new cars, and often at a lower price, or offering something extra special for the same price. That's where I'm at these days, and probably will be for however long owning an ICE car is an option.
@brianfox340
Жыл бұрын
If the markups go away new cars are more affordable to more people, and more fun cars are sold, more fun cars are then produced, and eventually make it to the used market. People can't afford fun cars when they're marked up like crazy, so minimally priced "get me there whenever there's not too big of a hill" cars win out in the new market. Not saying anything you're saying is wrong at all, but that's why I care even though I'll never buy a new car either.
@thewyattfletcher
Жыл бұрын
@@brianfox340 I hear ya, but affordable is relative, and at this point, when the lower priced of the available hot hatches/fun cars is pushing $35k after TTT, I'm not sure there are many "affordable" fun cars anymore, even if technically more people can afford those than the $60k for marked up CTR. I personally think the market has already hit the point that it's starting to show its cracks and is bound to break. Not necessarily a bad thing, when the alternative is 5 years of a $575/mo payment for a Civic Si or Miata or Mini.
@brianfox340
Жыл бұрын
@@thewyattfletcher I agree completely. I in no way think that removing dealership markups will make fun cars affordable for the vast majority. Prices need to go down as well for that to ever happen, but 5 digit dealership markups are 1. Helpful to literally nobody except greedy dealerships, and 2. Mean the problem will still exist even if MSRPs do come down. I really don't know where things are going to go or what could fix it, but there's no moderately good outcome without this theft by dealerships being stopped, and there may not be a decent outcome possible even with it.
@thewyattfletcher
Жыл бұрын
@@brianfox340 Can't disagree on these markups being outrageous and greedy. I just hope that it backfires and it helps enlighten people and turn them onto more interesting and affordable options.
@fishypirhana246
Жыл бұрын
Expensive new cars means expensive used cars. The demand shifts. Your fun 80s and 90s shit boxes have tripled in price since 2019. To be fair, your point stands for kit cars and other projects, but the vast majority of people buying sports cars are not mechanically or technically inclined (or have the tools) to do much of the work necessary to make these project vehicles affordable
@mickeymang6
Жыл бұрын
The fact that I make decent money now that I'm older but still can't afford the cars I want. 50 to 60k range are now selling for 80 to 100k is ridiculous. I wanted the Acura TLX Type S. Some dealers are sealing them for 15k to 20k over.
@loosecannon9301
Жыл бұрын
Hyundai bought the AUDI design team not too long ago and they use audi design language which is why reliability is a bit of an issue
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
lol.. this is low key funny
@barron204
Жыл бұрын
Worked at a dealership that added at least $30k to their vehicles post Covid. New vehicles sold in 2019 were cheaper than their traded in price in 2023. Buy a vehicle, drive it for 3 years and sell it for more than new. I don’t understand where the demand came from to allow this.
@ARCarReviews5
Жыл бұрын
Personally, I agree with Alex people are going to dealerships less and less due to high costs and markups. Forcing consumers to buy cars from strangers rather than establishments. Dealerships know what we want and their forcing us to go all hunger games on each other. Dealership markups are the worst and they need to be stopped. Can’t walk into a dealership without the constant feeling of being ripped off.
@HearthguardHG
Жыл бұрын
I liked your original idea, even if the execution was off. The question many of us probably think is “how much more are you paying per second saved around the track?” With that in mind, let me suggest an alternative: use the cheapest car’s lap time as a baseline against which the others are measured, a base fee that is required to go around the track at all, and the base lap time as what you will get for that base payment. You can then use the *difference* between the more expensive car’s price from the baseline price, and divide that number by the difference in the lap time. What you will get is (how many extra dollars do I have to spend?)/(per seconds of lap time saved). Of course as you mentioned there are as many ways to consider value as there are human opinions on planet earth, but I think this is a common perspective for someone who wants to buy a new car that is fun to drive without emptying their retirement account.
@38tech
Жыл бұрын
the mark ups just need to be outlawed with actual legislation. But we live in America, so gl with that.... As a old Hyundai fan, can you please use examples of this "stolen" tech. My antidotal story is I've owned 12 Hyundais since 1997. They are great cars. The new cars having failures is because they are actually trying to do something that they have not done before. Yeah, they don't have a ton of r n d and that's why they bring in people like Berman. My 2000 tib had 200k, no issues, 2003 e gt had 300k, changed the trans at 160k, otherwise rust took it. 2004 e gls 225k. My 13 sonata has 137k it's been flawless. Been up and down the east coast like 20 times.
@Bl00dwerK666
Жыл бұрын
I would look into getting a GR86, but the ten-grand markup is bullshit.
@bmobmo9384
Жыл бұрын
Dealerships have been acting like it's a privilege to buy a car from them. I refuse to ever go to any of those dealerships in the future. Imagine checking out at the grocery store and having an employee markup items as they were ringing them up making sure you were aware that THEY have it in stock and it's worth more than what it was being sold for so they're doing you a favor for selling it
@Simp_Recov
Жыл бұрын
Gotta love when an American says "by everyone in the world" when it's just the usa.
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
Haha, sorry! I need to remember there's a worldwide audience here :)
@MrLense
Жыл бұрын
Classic US defaultism. Rest of the world isn't fucked by Dealerships. At least in Europe I'm not aware of Dealerships being allowed to markup new cars to insane prices.
@dre32pitt
Жыл бұрын
Don't be jealous bro ;)
@MeineVerrücktenGeschichten
Жыл бұрын
I had a hyundai Santa fee as a daily , that i bought New. Drove it to about 320.000 Miles without Problems with the engine. I Loved that Thing. Still have Pictures :)
@whatdadogdoin7531
Жыл бұрын
Man if dealerships have the balls to do at least a $50k markup they should be taken out of business. They should have their trade licenses suspended for eternity. It's been three years they've been doing this and I'm amazed the government isn't stepping up. Now I'm no fan of EVs but I like Tesla's approach to selling vehicles- cutting out the middle man. More and more manufacturers should follow this. Also as someone pointed out about people losing their jobs if a dealership is out of business, I don't care. If they scam buyers of $50k, $100k markups they in return should be scammed of their job. I was in the market for a new car last year and the prices discouraged me a lot. Now I drive an used Accord with only monthly insurance payments and use the saved up money to do regular maintenance on it from an independent mech. Paying no monthly payments other than insurance is a BIG relief for me. I can't stress this enough.
@Pebergriffin1
Жыл бұрын
There is definitely an issue with dealerships, I ordered a gr86 exactly a year ago now and haven't gotten a delivery date. Then I go online and see that people who ordered only a few months ago have already gotten one. How can this happen lol
@sawyermartin4434
Жыл бұрын
That is because you did not order a GR86. Toyota does not offer an ordering process for consumers or for dealers (unless you are an employee/direct family member of an employee). Dealerships that falsely claim they will "order" you a new Toyota take your deposit & then cross their fingers that they get the vehicle that you want allocated to them.
@Pebergriffin1
Жыл бұрын
@@sawyermartin4434 I know lol, the guy that "sold" it to me got fired shortly after too lol. He said it would be a few months max and here I am 12 months later with no more info than I had last year. The dealer is only getting 2 cars for all of 23 aswell its so dumb. They made it sound like one of the cars they will get is auto too. Who wants an auto gr86 lol
@sawyermartin4434
Жыл бұрын
@@Pebergriffin1 The dealership does not know how many it will receive in 2023. They only receive allocations for the next 45 to 90 days. Whoever told you that had no idea what they were talking about either. Haha. I would get your deposit back at this point, or get with a different salesperson at your dealership & have them talk with the new car manager/general sales manager there about dealer trading to get what you're looking for. I work in sales at a Toyota dealership so let me know if you have any further questions about how the process actually works & I'd be happy to help man.
@osielramirez7274
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate that you admitting your wrong and not bending your opinions for popularity. I get that people might get upset about your critiques of Hyundai but they're legitimate. Shoot I bought me a 22 WRX and people bag on it but I like it, I don't really plan on taking it to the track. I prefer to take it on some soft roading. Plus I paid no markup whatsoever bc people don't like the this gen lol
@Epicc928
Жыл бұрын
I’m going to state, once again, that the track times for Hyundai were screwed up. They did not have new tires for the EN. This gave it a horrible lap time. It was supposed to be faster than the KN.
@44actual
Жыл бұрын
I’m glad someone else knows about this because he hasn’t addressed it.
@bcvijasiu
Жыл бұрын
There is definitely something wrong with the way we are doing reviews. Why are we all looking at just track reviews? Is that where all these cars spend most of their time at? I doubt it. What are these cars like on the street? What does a long term test look like? How is their reliability? What about cost of repairs for the issues that come up, both cost with and with out a warranty? Believe it or not, there is a cost even when something is covered under the warranty. The cost of convenience or inconvenience in this case. I just got an IS500. I got it for the fact that it is a sedan (4 doors and room for 4 people), but it is also fun due to its 5.0L V8. I also got it for its reliability? Is it an M3? No! Is it close and will it last me longer with less headache? Most likely! Those things are important. At least to me as I do not $h!t money on daily basis. I actually have to work for it and save it 😁. No one ever talks about that. It is always, here thr car, here is the track, here are the 0-60, 1/4 mile and track times. 0-60 is actually fun one and can be used in real world as you get on to the highway. I also have to say the breaking test is a good one. It should state the price of the brake replacement 😉.
@elvo905
Жыл бұрын
I don’t disagree with you when it comes to reliability of Hyundai/Kia products but I feel over the years it’s gotten a lot better. It’ll take time for the rest of the public to realize that as the bad experiences get more attention than someone with a normal car that doesn’t complain. First gen Velosters were pretty bad especially, as well as other Hyundais from the late 00s / early 10s. As an owner of a VN the only real issues I’ve seen with the car on the forum is the HPFP failing and people blowing stock turbos by pushing them too far with tunes they can’t handle. These N cars seem reasonably built to an acceptable standard as far as I’m concerned, with no catastrophic failures being a trend.
@andrazstrmcnik2331
Жыл бұрын
He is talking out of his ass. His issue with Hyundai is they try to make the most consistent and cost efective way to make an engine, haha that is literaly their job. Give me those stats of those milions of recals of N engines or is that just his "expericene" talking again. I would have no issues with his stance but be objective and do some research before and show us the evidence not just your "experience". And how did they just steal other peoples design what are you talking about? So then BMW stole other peoples design because they are using ZF gearboxes that also other people are using? That is my bigest issues with these "influencers" they claim to be "experts" in their field but have abosolutely no idea how the indsutry actually works but hey can you really blame him he is almost 1/4 of a century old
@25aspooner
Жыл бұрын
Hyundai is mixed on quality. The first and second generation Genesis sedans are very well build. They cheaper model cars.. Not so much. The third generation Genesis isn’t built as well as the earlier ones.
@boostedx9945
Жыл бұрын
Dealerships marking up prices and pocketing that money is the true crime, if the mark ups went to the manufacturers that would encourage them to build more cars instead of discontinuing models because there isn’t enough demand yet dealerships are making bank off them because there is demand just not at the prices they want….
@likenem
Жыл бұрын
The government already tells you who you can and can't buy cars from. That's why you have to buy cars from dealerships in some states.
@Foxxorz
Жыл бұрын
There's a reason I'm keeping my 300,000+ mile dsm on the road.
@kh_trendy
Жыл бұрын
Dealerships have two options. Either they stop the markups or the manufacturer is going to make them obsolete to protect sales.
@CrustRotch
Жыл бұрын
Direct to consumer manufacturers still have showrooms and you can test drive so that’s not an argument.. they can just work directly for the manufacturer
@killerdeviant
Жыл бұрын
That guy is not beating his Hyundai if it’s still running. Just got the usual burnt oil white smoke right in front of me
@zleepwokr6533
Жыл бұрын
I was dead set on buying a Z until these $10k+ markups took over. Hell, the Proto Spec has doubled in price from markups
@dustysummit3900
Жыл бұрын
I make $80,000 a year, live in San Diego can’t justify the expense of buying a $25,000+ car let alone going into debt over it. Imagine paying a $50,000 markup to drive a Toyota. Insane. I’m a car guy through and through but 3/4 of Car Journalists make less than $70k a year and will never be able to afford these cars.
@TheRealMrRoyal
Жыл бұрын
I agree on most points but I will NEVER buy a car. Even a new one until I drive the exact one I'm going to buy. I get it with exotics and made to order but on an assembly line model I don't want to go drive a "test" vehicle at a center built and maintained just for that. I want to go test, and drive it home. And we would need more regulations on the manufacturers. With dealerships, we have some sort of competition that can benefit the consumer. If only the main company is selling them they can set prices, offer no incentives, not negotiate on extras.
@brickson98m
Жыл бұрын
Well more manufacturers could adopt a Tesla-like model. They have places where you can go test drive them and then you put your order in. But instead of doing that, they could have ready to go cars there to test. And you could buy it, but there’s a set profit for the dealership, which is controlled by the manufacturer, so dealerships can’t make their own insane markups. Or just don’t have the dealership make money from new car sales. You could buy it there in person, but the transaction is actually between you and the manufacturer, with the dealership only service as a purchase location and place to take it for service.
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
Appreciate the comment and thoughts man!
@sanzserif
Жыл бұрын
Anyone who defends Hyundai reliability based on their own personal experience should look up the word anecdotal.
@JC2SLO
Жыл бұрын
Last summer in Orlando, Flordia, I saw a Mercedes AMG Black Series going for 999,999 (a mark up of $666,666.66) This is not how it should be
@Byefriendo
Жыл бұрын
1:55 This is basically the tesla model Go look at the car in the showroom, test drive it, go there for servicing but you order the car online for the exact same price as everyone else
@Tofuey
Жыл бұрын
Car makers want dealerships, unfortunately. They don't want to deal directly with consumers when they can just sell bulk inventory to dealers who have to worry about selling them.
@roydrink
Жыл бұрын
There were markups on the Mazda Miata when they were introduced in 1989.
@patsbimmer11
Жыл бұрын
The front end shenanigans that dealerships are pulling right now is ridiculous and there will be a correction. The sales side of a dealership has always given the entire dealership a bad rap. What does need to stay is the backend service. That's where a good dealership makes money and that's what keeps the doors open when people stop buying new cars. There is absolutely a need for manufacturer trained technicians to service the newest technology. Some of the best aftermarket shops in the industry started with people leaving dealerships with factory training.
@rando5673
Жыл бұрын
If we cut out the dealership, in theory we cut out the cost of the building and paying employees. Let's pretend that's 5% the cost of the vehicle. On a $50k car, that's $2,500 in savings
@bigpat_4295
Жыл бұрын
Quite possible that car makers increase prices if dealerships would cease to exist
@jameshaulenbeek5931
Жыл бұрын
The markups are STUPID! I'd love to get a new GTI, but holy shit, that price...
@jw3384
Жыл бұрын
I was 2nd in line to pay 5k markup for a 2023 type R and 4th in line for msrp at another dealer so you can get it cheaper. I ended up getting tlx type s tho because of the winters
@MikVision
Жыл бұрын
Man America Sucks Here in Europe dealerships actually give you a discount compared to the list price from the manufacturer's website.
@shawnm8232
Жыл бұрын
If we had direct to consumer available for all car brands, the dealerships would be forced to sell at MSRP. It would fix everything because people could still buy from dealerships or directly from the manufacturers for the same price. The only people fighting this would be dealers because they want to control the market prices.
@CameronZ28
Жыл бұрын
I think dealerships as we know should cease to exist as soon as possible. Cars need to be sold directly to the consumer. You might be able to use a "dealership" as a drop-off/pick-up location for the purchase. You might even be able to go to a dealership to buy a car online via the manufacturer, with guidance from "dealers" but they are on an hourly rate not commission. Their only goal is to make the customer happy and advise on which options would be best for them. They will also be able to use the current dealers as service centers for these cars as they already do. I think doing it that way would significantly cut costs to consumers with minimal loss of jobs.
@myonen4402
Жыл бұрын
1) A new car test is not the same as that car will be in 5-10 yrs with 100-200 k miles on the odometer. 2) Dealerships spend huge amounts of money to create virtual monopolies and restrict competition thus allowing these insane markups 3) though I do agree that $*time is probably the best normalization all performance per dollar comparisons will favor the cheaper end of things because as you move past the low hanging fruit in engineering r&d and production costs become much higher also you lose the benefits of scale. Finally: About longevity of vehicles it often surprises people that we drove a 94 Hyundai Elantra until 2020 because All maintenance was done on schedule and that is often the deciding factor of how long a vehicle will last.
@racesuey
Жыл бұрын
I know you are trying to make a certain point which is about abnormal market and I agree with that aspect. But I think your clear mis-understanding of lightning lap concept, your general lack of knowledge in amateur HPDE/motorsport and concept of car's performance in general and your obsession to state your opinion as a fact are forcing you to base your argument on a false pretence. Although you makes is as if C&D's purpose of lighting lab is to bring price vs speed comparison, that's simply not it's goal. The only thing C&D does is to put car in artificial price catagory. Other than that they brings no attention to price Vs. performance aspect. In fact, C&D makes it very clear that their laptime's goal is to demonstrate and describe cars dynamic performance. (Unlike their COMPARISON tests which often mention dealer markup and MSRP) In fact, C&D is very open about limitation of their lighting lap test. Often highlighting lack of factory support and tire choices. This year they highlighted that a lot of brand brought Cup2R compound which is basically unicorn tire (that most time trial participants won't use due to class constraints) while highlighted that some cars like Elantra N had old tires and only had 1 set of wheels and these cars could get better laptime with similar R compound tire setup. If you read the articles, they are very open about how the car reacted (aka CT4 V's suspension snapping last year) because C&D's focus is to demonstrate/test trackability of the car instead of making price vs performance comparison. Hence they track the car for 3 days and tells reader how the car did, as if you would bring the car to the HPDE event. So I don't know why youve made whole ranking and stuff because C&D presents laptime but does not use that to present faster car as more superior. Overall, I find it kinda troubling that you are making bunch of statement as if it's a fact although it's an opinion - which is similar to very thing you accuse automotive magazines of doing. (Which I think is wrong 😉) Among many things, clear example of that is what you said about Hyundai Ns. You are skirting to address the concerns that people made about your assertions on Hyundai. Key problem is you're doing this without providing any facts or data points. At very least you should have clearly whether if this is your opinion or fact because that's very blurry. You can't do that when the point of whole video is pointing out the fact that car media is misrepresenting something because you are doing the same in the video.
@almirtorres7403
Жыл бұрын
Car brands that refuse to sell direct to consumer will lose in the long run. These markups are destroying so many potential sales and customer brand loyalty potential. Dealerships should just be pickup centers for already purchased vehicles, and service centers. Direct to consumer means no markups, and no hassle. Manufacturers will only start caring when their sales are affected heavily. When virtually no one is buying a new car, is when the manufacturers will start to take this seriously.
@andyreynoldsF31
Жыл бұрын
I feel that the as tested price is a good determiner for how the vehicle will perform, the markup is just how much you like that car is how much you're willing to pay. Great Video
@OriginalSarn
Жыл бұрын
I’ve worked along side some high end luxury dealers like porshe for years and certain models have been getting marked up for years depending on the market.
@cameronknight1654
Жыл бұрын
Dealerships are outdated and manufacturers should be able to directly sell to their customers rather than forcing them through a 3rd party that marks vehicles to all hell
@tonyyimbo
Жыл бұрын
The only constant in life is change…and that industry needs a heap of it
@999benhonda
Жыл бұрын
Lol, the government does tell you where to buy a car. Car companies are not allowed to sell direct, they have to use dealerships. But because of those laws, dealerships have a kind of monopoly.
@Rahimraissnia
Жыл бұрын
Recessions funnel money from the lower class to the top so actually would make it worse
@mrsoisauce9017
Жыл бұрын
4:23 when in recent history did Hyundai rip off another manufacturer’s design language or technology?
@aazibsiddique9925
Жыл бұрын
Hyundai/ KIA are easy to break into.
@professorchurros3199
Жыл бұрын
Or, or, or we don’t buy dealership markups or shit boxes that are 20-30k used cars that are 50-100k miles beaten to death to the point where they deflate those prices to realistic standards. It starts with the buyer if you buy at those prices they learn there is a market that allows it and the problem persists.
@manuelpiston
Жыл бұрын
I was ready to buy a GR corolla. They told me a 10k markup. I told them I wouldn't give them a 10 dollars markup.
@DrgonStar
Жыл бұрын
"I don't want the government telling me who I can and can't buy a car from.." They already do! Tesla is the only DTC car company and they can't even sell direct in some places. Dealerships constantly lobby to make sure you can't buy direct! In Texas, Tesla has to ship cars from out of state to sell directly to the consumer.
@EstrellaVista
Жыл бұрын
That first commenter’s dad is definitely a car dealer lmao
@markroman9007
Жыл бұрын
Loved the video Alex ! Keep up the good work 🥲
@AlexMartini.
Жыл бұрын
Thank you Mark, means a lot!
@rnt45t1
Жыл бұрын
Dude openly admits to speeding over 140mph every time he goes on the highway. Totally rational and responsible behavior....
@silvy3047
Жыл бұрын
Hyundai owners are not smart
@irakatski
Жыл бұрын
Maybe he lives somewhere there’s reasonable space to do it in between large gappings of cars. Maybe he lives out in the country and does it in a relatively safe setting where he and he alone would be injured. You are on a car channel I don’t exactly understand the shock here
@silkpursuit
Жыл бұрын
People can talk all the shit they want about Hyundai, but i will always have the upmost respect for that brand. Nobody has displayed the same amount of progress that Hyundai motor company has in the last 40+ years. With all that progress in such a short amount of time, you are bound to cut corners whether intentional or not.
@gaydes1012
Жыл бұрын
dealerships should go extinct, I entirely agree. I'm tired of seeing all these affordable sporty cars come out only to be shafted by markups making them no longer affordable or a good value, it's killing the enthusiast car market and it's making it difficult to justify buying a new car right now.
@TechSlapped
Жыл бұрын
I agree with the. Stealerships being a problem. The folks saying they dont want government involved should take a moment and look at the laws that prevent direct to consumer sales. The whole reason for dealerships was to prevent manufacturers from doing what the dealer ships did and are doing. Dealerships can straight up lie to customers and rip them off cause of the nature of vehicle sales.
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