One potential benefit to keywording Bounce would be enabling creatures to have some resistance to it. "This creature can't be bounced." Is clear and direct, and there's almost no clear way to word that ability without keywording Bounce.
@Triceratopping
3 жыл бұрын
"This creature can't be returned to its owner's hand by spells or effects an opponent controls." = ew. I'm definitely in the keyword bounce gang (perhaps "banish"?)
@PalPlays
2 жыл бұрын
@@Triceratopping Unsummon!
@Burianu767
2 жыл бұрын
@@PalPlays Summon is specific to creatures, and you can bounce non-creature permanents, or even spells that are still on the stack (e.g. Divide by Zero), so it seems like bounce is the way to go.
@mikejh1604
2 жыл бұрын
@@Burianu767 Bounce isn’t really clear in every language, it really only means return in English
@Burianu767
2 жыл бұрын
@@mikejh1604 Surely there are other keywords with this issue? How were they addressed?
@Mr_Myst13
3 жыл бұрын
For "daunt", why not add a number beside it, like daunt 2 for "can't be blocked by power 2 or less"?? That can allow for wiggle room while also chopping off words
@Barracius
3 жыл бұрын
I had the same thought when he discussed it. There is even precedent for it with Ward in having different requirements for it.
@ONEwildGUN
3 жыл бұрын
This was my first thought as well
@HienNguyenHMN
3 жыл бұрын
Tangential but related. I also thought it was weird they didn't use a number for menace. Especially when they sometimes use what's effectively menace 3 on some cards.
@troacctid
3 жыл бұрын
If they're just going to use the same number every time, it's a waste. See also Threshold.
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
@@HienNguyenHMN That's extremely rarely though. And it really only makes sense with the numbers 2 and 3.
@chifii
3 жыл бұрын
One of the pros of using "This creature" instead of creature names is that it makes it more clear when one card becomes a copy of another that any of the abilities on the copied card apply to the card doing the copying and not the original. I don't even think you need to do it on every instance of the name, especially on legendary creatures with long wordy titles; the standard could be that the first time you use the name, you use the proper name of the card ("When Myr Battlesphere enters the battlefield..."), and every other time you use this creature ("whenever this creature attacks, you may tap any number...").
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
It's an interesting approach, although I think there might be subtle issues in referencing the card type. First of all, would you use also "this artifact", "this enchantment" etc.? And what if the card type changes (although we could already say the same for the card name I suppose)? Maybe "this permanent" could be a sufficiently nice catch-all. Plus I think you should only use "this [permanent type]" for effects referencing the card while on the battlefield, whereas in every other zone you should use "this card" (ex: reveal this card from your hand, exile this card from your graveyard). All in all, still much better than just using "this" instead of the name :)
@HienNguyenHMN
3 жыл бұрын
They already do this for Legendary creatures; they forego the epithet when the text box is crowded or the full name is too long. (e.g., Uro)
@faceoctopus4571
3 жыл бұрын
@@LK90512 similarly CARDNAME still applies when the card type changes. A Fearless Fledgling that has a One with the Stars on it will still get its landfall triggers.
@faceoctopus4571
3 жыл бұрын
I was confused when I saw CARDNAME for the first time. If I have 2 Fearless Fledglings and I trigger landfall. Can I put 2 counters on one and 0 on the other? I know I can't now. But IIRC I honestly thought I might be able to the first time I saw CARDNAME templating.
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
@@faceoctopus4571 I absolutely agree, CARNAME templating has issues either. I wasn't dismissing the "this creature" templating, just reasoning on potential blindspots. Now more than before i'm leaning towards "this permanent/spell/card" (if the effects takes place respectively on the battlefield/stack/anywhere else).
@mfitkin
3 жыл бұрын
Why not just stick with “enters” instead of “arrives?” Just drop the battlefield part
@psy_p
3 жыл бұрын
This is a much better idea
@ToxicAtom
3 жыл бұрын
arrives is more evocative of the mechanic it's representing, which is an important tool for offloading some of the memory issues keywords typically have. Tell a new player your Serra Angel doesn't tap because it's Vigilant, and it might track. Tell a new player your Serra Angel Flies over their blockers, and they'll understand on the spot.
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
@@ToxicAtom I really don't like the flavor of "arrives" either though. Sounds a bit like they're late to a party :) Creatures are not arriving from anywhere, they're being summoned through spells. And it definitely doesn't apply to noncreature permanents.
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
@@LK90512 this. and arrives is so common, so bland. not epic at all. is this fantasy or not?
@wessless
3 жыл бұрын
@@ToxicAtom yeah, I remember keywords like haste and vigilance confusing me when I was a new player and would apply their normal English definition to the word.
@jaredhamilton8694
3 жыл бұрын
I’m personally a fan of giving a keyword to activated abilities at sorcery speed, and while there are definitely issues with making Surveil evergreen, I personally support it because there’s limited mechanical overlap in Dimir outside of Mill and Tribal, and I want it to have more space to play around in.
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
I'd hope that if they evergreened Surveil, they'd put it into every color, though still primary in black and blue.
@poofypeanut0221
3 жыл бұрын
This channel is so extra awesome I can’t stand it! Btw, quick question Gavin. Where would (in your opinion) be the best place for designers at Wotc like yourself and Mark for example, to sends ideas you have and possibly get feedback? Not for the sake of “I designed this card and you should use it”, more of “hey I really enjoy creating ideas for cards/mechanics and want a pros opinion on what’s good/what would you change”? Sorry for the novel, you guys are probably so busy you would barely have time to read them anyway. But I create at least 1 card idea a day, and it would thrill me to share with you in some way.
@GoodMorningMagic
3 жыл бұрын
Hey there! So glad you're excited to make cards and share. Unfortunately, we can't look at fan card designs for legal reasons. Sorry!
@poofypeanut0221
3 жыл бұрын
@@GoodMorningMagic ah dang! Understandable however. Thank you for your replies, is there maybe any other tid bit of a good place to start you can share? While I’ve often checked the websites for job listings, in seems they’re always more senior positions that require backgrounds I just don’t have. Any alternative way of having wotc view someone’s work/ideas? Thanks again for your thoughts, here and on the channel! It’s truly a delight to be able hear things through your lens. Keep up the awesome stuff Gavin!
@wavestridechariot8062
3 жыл бұрын
Like how the "exile a card, you may cast it for as long as it remains in exile and may spend mana as though it were any color to cast it from exile" should be a keyword at this point. Call is "Assimilate." I wrote a lengthy Twitter thread on why it should be called that and made a mechanic; who knows, one day it'll reach the mechanic phase and it'll have a name finally. Until then, a wall of text is what we've got and we have to live with it.
@wavestridechariot8062
3 жыл бұрын
10:55 : Oh, glad you did talk about this, Gavin! I was halfway through the video when I responded with the above. I think "Assimilate" would be decent, it needs a gentler touch but how I explained it was you could even "Mana Wash it" into specific colors or source types if need be, such as "Assimilates to/from Red" or "Assimilates to/from Snow."
@hoola42
2 жыл бұрын
I trust r&d to decide what needs a keyword, but there needs to be more flexibility and consistency. If a card has text that explicitly matches an existing keyword, it should use that keyword. Even if it becomes the only cad in the set with that keyword, it make the game deeper and more consistent. I hold the same thoughts for erratas, having cards that could be functionally identical with a keyword should have the keyword, regardless of when and where they were printed.
@Solemnyty
3 жыл бұрын
I could totally see Surveil being the blue/ black evergreen mechanic. Kinda like how Prowess became the blue/ red evergreen mechanic after the Tarkir block.
@Seergun
3 жыл бұрын
So, remember, prowess is no longer evergreen, partial due to too much overlap with other, similar effects, historic being the first big one, magecraft or izzet would have been more. It's still deciduous, but not evergreen.
@JacobBos1988
3 жыл бұрын
I would love Surveil to be evergreen. It would also help make some cards more usefull in the long term, like the dimir cards that did x when you surveiled this turn. I'm still saddened by the loss of regenerate and landwalk. River Boa was such a cool card back in the day. I get that with indestructible around, regenerate felt very clunky. But why get rid of landwalk? It's very flavorfull evasion for scouts and creatures well adapted to their environment.
@MasonzeroDigitalWorks
3 жыл бұрын
Landwalk is just kind of a boring mechanic that makes for un-fun games.
@JacobBos1988
3 жыл бұрын
@@MasonzeroDigitalWorks I disagree. It's very flavorfull and is easier to take care off than creatures with protection for example. It leads to less non-games than, say, indestructible vs red decks. Also, unblockable is allready a thing, landwalk makes it more flavorfull and less oppressive vs other colors.
@Mocandragon5
3 жыл бұрын
The issue that was touted with landwalk was the same but inverse to intimidate, and you have to remember it was phased out in the time that protection wasn't being used either (at least from colours.) Cards that only work against, or do nothing against, certain colours were thought of as not great for the longest time. They usually aren't, either, with cards that are better against certain colours but not useless against the others, like Mystical Dispute seeing the most play. (Other than incredibly imbalanced ones like Veil of Summer)
@soarel325
Жыл бұрын
I think some of the flavor arguments around "Burn" are weak when "Mill", a term which has zero flavor connection to what it's actually doing, was keyworded purely because it got grandfathered in
@pablolins
Жыл бұрын
I wish that the "this creature can't be blocked" text would be simpler "unblockable".
@mmartak
3 жыл бұрын
As a Commander player, I'd like to suggest the new keyword "Scoop," to be featured on cards such as Tergrid and Urza. 😀
@mmartak
3 жыл бұрын
It goes hand in hand with the keyword "Kvetch," which is short for "target player may pick up their cards and go play a different game other than Magic the Gathering."
@melonyfbb
3 жыл бұрын
What about blink as a flavour word- flavour word for those that vary
@MakeVarahHappen
3 жыл бұрын
Couldn't daunt have a number attached like Ward? So normally it would be daunt 2, but you could also have daunt 3 or daunt 1.
@OBZEDAT
3 жыл бұрын
Chan-Draw is one of the best mtg jokes I've heard in a while
@Neth91
3 жыл бұрын
so how about something like imprison for "exile x-permanent until this leaves the battlefield"
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
imprison has more letters than exile. no need to keyword .
@noahpreuss2795
2 жыл бұрын
Surveil is a big one for me, but I'd also like to see arrives be added, seems epic
@DylanHilliard1
3 жыл бұрын
I liked consider. I believe there will be another printing of it in a secret lair. That would be the time to shorten it.
@loosemoose5217
3 жыл бұрын
I wish they just made ETB a keyword, call it entrance or something, its so wordy to put when X creature enters the battlefield and its been used in every single set basically
@ethanchapman3799
2 жыл бұрын
One my friend came up with is dueling for "can't be blocked by more then one creature"
@christmas6666
3 жыл бұрын
Consider should 100% just read as "Surveil 1".
@cc_rex5017
3 жыл бұрын
Now I want Chan-Draw more than anything. Thanks Gavin XD
@sethreardon2007
3 жыл бұрын
While on this string, i will say that the symbols following outlast are extremely confusing even to players who have a grasp on the game and mechanics - having "Outlast 2W (2W,Tap: etc)" is confusing, just have the tap with the 2W to begin with, and remove it from the parenthesis. Every time i look at outlast cards, i still have to remind myself that it taps when outlast is used.
@ryanoconnor3867
3 жыл бұрын
Wait, question. Theres a few cards that enter the battlefield as copies of another card but retain their original name. Does that effect cards that say like "when [cardname] deals combat damage" because it has a different name then in the rules text? Or am i overthinking this?
@xXscreamingkoalaXx
2 жыл бұрын
"Bounce" seems like a good idea.
@carmajinn
2 жыл бұрын
"can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less" => how come nobody suggested "unbearable"?
@GoodMorningMagic
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha
@spliffi869
Жыл бұрын
One of the worst design flaws about MTG wording is the inclusion of the card name within the rules text of its card. I've always assumed the intention behind it must be so that the players learn the cards name fast by intended repetition, otherwise I see no function in it and makes the card harder to read, especially as a beginner. I would strongly recommend to simply change it to "this creature" instead of writing out the often lengthy names. In some occasions "this creature" might be longer, but for most cards it's shorter and it would make the rules text of MTG cards more coherent overall.
@AndrewWoodford
3 жыл бұрын
I would say Bounce because it's so clean!
@kurosbelmont2355
2 жыл бұрын
All I wanna know is, where can I get that shirt you're wearing?!
@MajraMangetsu
3 жыл бұрын
Surveil and Freeze, no questions ask.
@BrvtusVG
3 жыл бұрын
I like the idea of shortening "enter the battlefield" but "arrives" is a bad pick IMO. It's a lot less flavourful and feels like the creature has just shown up late at a party. I think something like "enters battle" would be the best, otherwise "incarnates" is single word and feels more magically flavourful (also helps to differentiate between a creature spell and a resolved creature permanent). EDIT: On further reflection the problem is that "enters battle" is uncomfortably close in wording to "at the start of combat" which may trip up new players. Also "enters battle" is a more active concept, signalling that something will participate in combat, while "incarnates" implies that something is living, both of which aren't true for non-creature permanents that also "enter the battlefield". So I'm back to square one in thinking "enter the battlefield" is the best and clearest wording.
@TwinStags
3 жыл бұрын
Do NOT change ETB Tutor is healthy Bounce might throw new players off, thinking it's more of a flicker/blink effect Can't believe Surveil isn't evergreen already Same with Goad. Kardur could've looked so sleek
@ms.sysbit5511
3 жыл бұрын
Kardur does not Goad actually; it’s a stronger version. Goad makes creatures in play do so; Kardur compels the player to attack so if they play say a haste creature or toss Greaves on it, it now has to as well.
@vichitwood
3 жыл бұрын
mana wash and bounch are the only ones I like tbh
@angeniuxparedes5241
Жыл бұрын
do the blink and arrives
@TheeBuddylee
3 жыл бұрын
Surveil, drain, ping, threaten.
@misomiso8228
3 жыл бұрын
8.15 Honestly what I want more than anything is keywords for 'Enter the Battlefield' and a 'When a creature is put into the graveyard from play'. My own impression is that you guys were reluctant to do something like this because it would be too similar to "battlecry' and 'deathrattle' from Hearthstone, but now MtG has it's own online identity I think it would be fine. The terminology I had for these effects were 'Touchdown' and 'Deathscream'! 'Bounce' would be great for return to hand, and you could do a mechanic called 'flicker' which was for a very specific type of blink. The Sorcery Speed tap thing is really important I think. Maybe 'SS' or 'Sorcery Speed': T. Honestly though I really wish you guys would just make all Sorceries isntants and give them a 'Flash' Supertype. It would make the game a lot easier to understand. Great vid though Gavin.
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
"When a creature is put into the graveyard from play" is already partially keyworded as "When a creature dies" since M12 (released in 2011). I would love too if they finally removed the instant type, but at this point i don't see it ever happening :(
@misomiso8228
3 жыл бұрын
@@LK90512 I know but what I want is a 'one word' keyword. Even 'When this creature Arrives' is too long. I want something like 'Battlecry' and 'Deathrattle'. A one word thing.
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
@@misomiso8228 I see your point. Personally I don't like the extreme wording style of HS, I find I bit too dry, but probably I'm just a bit old fashioned. But I think eventually the space requirements for mtg will be so high that we will end up there, so be patient :)
@jernmon
3 жыл бұрын
For me, the most annoying thing about "Activate only as a sorcery" is that the text appears at the end of an effect! Why?!?! That buries important information needed to activate the effect. If it is ever considered to be keyworded, it should also be retemplated.
@stevenglowacki8576
3 жыл бұрын
I definitely agree that it would work much better if there was a symbol or word that appeared at the start of an ability that indicated the timing of it. Other games have done this sort of thing. Magic has really only two major timings so it's not as useful, especially since one of them is the default and used for almost all abilities. But if you simply were to start using more things that could only be used in combat (like how Waylay was fixed oh so many years ago) or things like that, that would give more impetus to wanting to switch to such a system.
@architectofdreams73
3 жыл бұрын
There are effects that can only be used at sorcery speed and those you can only use during your turn. There are those that can only be used during specific phases during a turn. And those that can only be used after a certain condition has been met. The list goes on from there. Keywording sorcery speed could potentially save space and be less wordy, but I think this creates other issues as at what point do you decide if something should be keyworded by itself versus keyworded but with conditions or limitations? It just seems logistically improbable just to shave off some words if this process isn't necessary in the first place other than not wanting to read longer texts on cards. If they want cards to do more things and keywording is how this is done without too much confusion to how it reacts to rules of the game, sure...keyword away. I always found it pretty lame when someone complains about a card having too much text. Probably exactly the same thought those same people about this response.
@androkguz
2 жыл бұрын
I keep saying that we should have the ":" (colon) symbol for instant speed activated abilities and another one for sorcery speed activated abilities Something like ">" or "="
@architectofdreams73
2 жыл бұрын
@@androkguz this could have some useful applications.
@bobthegamingtaco6073
2 жыл бұрын
I could see it remaining in the same location, but just being replaced with "slow" as a sort of anti-flash keyword
@cooljoe500
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Gavin, I really enjoy the introduction of Ward. It makes creatures more viable and survivable without making them almost untouchable like with hexproof.
@Triceratopping
3 жыл бұрын
ward is definitely an improvement over hexproof. It protects a permanent while still allowing an opponent to interact with it.
@The5lacker
2 жыл бұрын
A side benefit that I don't think people are talking enough about is it raised the value of "Can't be countered" *immensely.* Instead of being a niche, metagame dependent line of text that's functionally removed against four of the five colors, it becomes the "No I really want this to die please" ability.
@connorb33
3 жыл бұрын
I do think Surveil should be used in premier sets in the future, but in a manner similar to how -1/-1 counters have been used. Scry should remain as the primary card filtering keyword for most sets, but every few years there should be a graveyard-matters set or two where it gets replaced by Surveil.
@androkguz
2 жыл бұрын
This is the solution. I agree
@MatthewCJoy
2 жыл бұрын
Nah just let surveil happen
@HuxtableK
Жыл бұрын
Surveil already happens now on Arena.
@TitusX17
3 жыл бұрын
I was literally reading a card the other day and re-read it multiple times and then was like, "Oh Surveil 3" it would have saved me a minute or so of reading and comprehending
@alext.1244
3 жыл бұрын
yeah, im honestly still confused to why they didnt keyword surveil in this set still, Gavins didnt offer enough of a reason why not still tbh
@alext.1244
3 жыл бұрын
i mean.... the other innistrad set had MELD for goodness sake MELD! that was on like 2 cards LOL
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
@@alext.1244 He definitely gave a reason though. The reason they didn't is because it doesn't currently show up in enough sets to be evergreen, and it doing so might be problematic since scry, a very similar mechanic, is currently evergreen. And there were only 3 cards in MID that surveiled, so not enough to be a set mechanic. And between when surveil was first printed and MID, there were only 3 new cards that surveiled printed into standard.
@TitusX17
3 жыл бұрын
@@alext.1244 I really liked meld as a mechanic but it was only on 6 cards melded into 3 creatures and didn't get a chance to shine. I want an entire plane focused around meld. Bruna/Gisela should have been partners for commander but that was a standard set so they probably didn't want to include partner
@mathewdebol923
3 жыл бұрын
I’m thinking Meld has been replaced by Mutate
@ericwollam5532
3 жыл бұрын
Man, I'll be brutally honest, I really don't like the sound of Arrives vs Enters the Battlefield. It just doesn't have that same flow as ETB when you're in a commander game and reading the effect of a card for people. Arrives just kinda sounds weird to say.
@busterbros
2 жыл бұрын
It makes more sense to just shorten it to "enters." Permanents don't enter any other zones as far as I know.
@pandoragoldspan7012
2 жыл бұрын
@@busterbros graveyard
@busterbros
2 жыл бұрын
@@pandoragoldspan7012 enters the graveyard? I don't think I've ever seen that on a card.
@pandoragoldspan7012
2 жыл бұрын
@@busterbros because it's formatted as "dies" or "destroyed" or "is put into a graveyard" usually, but is still a zone that permanents enter with relevant abilities caring about when permanents go there
@busterbros
2 жыл бұрын
@@pandoragoldspan7012 ok yeah makes sense, so "enters" and "dies" two new keywords, boom
@ninjanick7369
3 жыл бұрын
I don't like Arrives: Enter the Battlefield might be wordy, but it feels much better flavor wise
@KiokuJonny
3 жыл бұрын
It's a better fit than "comes into play" was, and I see no reason to change it further.
@stevenglowacki8576
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was going to say, that's one time when they lengthened card text to be more flavorful, though it also reduced confusion because "play" meant different things. They still haven't fixed that for "counter", mainly because the two words are entirely different etymologies, but it was one of the things I was confused about when I first started playing.
@jfb-
2 жыл бұрын
I'd prefer "enters" (which is what I say anyway)
@The5lacker
2 жыл бұрын
I could see "is summoned" though that leans a bit harder on creatures than other permanent types.
@rodrigo68643
2 жыл бұрын
switching from "when cardname enters the battlefield" to "enters the battlefield:" would make it better in my opinion
@daracaex
3 жыл бұрын
My only issue with Surveil is in the cards that cared about surveilling but do nothing if you do the exact thing Surveil does but it doesn't SAY "Surveil" so it doesn't count.
@Rukalin
3 жыл бұрын
I also think it's weird how Disinformation Campaign and Dovin's Acuity are two cards with obvious parallels but one of them could be printed in literally any set (mechanic-wise, at least) while the other's bound to being printed in sets with surveil.
@Malverde888
3 жыл бұрын
They should grandfather them into playability.
@SirGrimLockSmithVIII
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. It's very frustrating
@corhydrae3238
2 жыл бұрын
I feel the same way about Kardur, Doomscourge, now that Vengeful Ancestor exists as a specific goad-payoff. Big feelbad for everyone who runs him as a commander.
@ryansprenkle6356
2 жыл бұрын
@@corhydrae3238 Kardur doesn't actually goad. His effect is technically slightly better as it effects creatures not currently on the battlefield.
@ShadWickBrand
3 жыл бұрын
Having "only as a sorcery" appear somehow as part of or near the tap symbol, or earlier in the text would really help alleviate all the times you read something and stop halfway, only to get caught off guard by that clause later on.
@psy_p
3 жыл бұрын
Don't stop halfway
@BradleyGordon42
3 жыл бұрын
I agree, I think a symbol or keyword for "only as a sorcery" would be wonderful. Maybe the keyword could even just be "Sorcerous"
@endlessorbaggins8223
3 жыл бұрын
They could also reduce the wordiness overall so we don't have too misread a card in diagonal cause it is too wordy.
@androkguz
3 жыл бұрын
Like I said before: Lets use ":" for instant speed activated abilities and another symbol for the slow ones Maybe ">" or "->" or something made by a designer
@karlwebb4799
3 жыл бұрын
I had the same idea. Make a new icon/symbol. Maybe a downward arrow to point to self as reminder of your turn and sorcery speed. It is an additional cost like a tap symbol is an additional cost.
@thetemp7858
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly changing the pick and mana wash a card being replaced by "steal" would be the best thing because it's so wordy, I would love more surveil cards too!
@brokeDSU
3 жыл бұрын
the pick and mana wash a card is wordy, but rightly so. it's a complicated game action. Imagine seeing "steal a card from the top of an opponent's library" as a new player. The intuitive thing to do would be to put the card in your hand, no? "Steal" doesn't immediately convey that the card is exiled, let alone the mana wash effect. Of course, this is what reminder text is for, but adding reminder text kind of defeats the purpose of keywording an action. Not to mention variations on this effect, e.g. you can only play the card until end of turn, or you can play the card but it isn't color washed, etc
@emmakristoffersen8550
3 жыл бұрын
@@brokeDSU using a flavorful keyword and explaining it in reminder text did improve Historic (the Dominara mechanic), letting players focus on what the card "does", and then going into the mechanical nuance of it later. Making it a keyword would mean that commons still need the reminder text, and wouldn't gain much space, but rares, which aren't aimed at new players to the same degree, free up a lot of space. Recently stealing have mostly been mana washed and as long as it's exiled, I don't think there's much point in using the other variations anymore, now that that "technology" exists
@faceoctopus4571
3 жыл бұрын
The problem with "steal" is if someone said to me: WotC is keywording an old mechanic, they are calling the mechanic "steal" now. The first thing that would come to mind would be things that take control of an opponent's permeant, like Blatant Thievery.
@bcoble121691
3 жыл бұрын
"Card name" causes new players problems though when you start cloning, they think the clones don't work because the Card name isn't the same. Especially with clones like Sakashima who keep their name
@ancestralFromWesnoth
3 жыл бұрын
I think it’s confusing the word “counter” is used both as a verb and a noun, especially for younger people and those new to the English language playing with English cards. I think “counter” as a verb should just be changed to “cancel.”
@androkguz
3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree. Or the noun "counters" could be changed to "markers" Depending on which is more iconic
@stevenglowacki8576
3 жыл бұрын
Heh, I just mentioned this in another comment right before reading this one. It's a really weird case, because I'm sure it's not the same word in most languages. I actually would be shocked if the word was the same in any other language. The two English words with those letters in that order are really completely different words, with totally different etymologies.
@Triceratopping
3 жыл бұрын
The Unhinged card Ambiguity has a lot of fun with this exact issue.
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
@@stevenglowacki8576 works very well in portuguese.
@blackknightjack3850
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly I've been a big fan of keywording "Attacks each turn if able" into "rage". And, yes, it was primarily to save text space.
@Yunas_Jet
3 жыл бұрын
"Steal and mana wash" is an interesting one I'd not considered before this - but I think just mana wash on its own is likely the best solution there - more flexibility
@haofabs
3 жыл бұрын
"This card" instead of name. It reads more like natural language, is easier to explain to new players and is more accurate to how the card actually works.
@sandwichboy1268
2 жыл бұрын
Please. The new Dracula cards make me wanna kms because they have the actual card name in their text box instead of "this creature" or the Dracula names
@BurningOleander
3 жыл бұрын
That might not be the most complex or interesting answer to that question, but I think Surveil really is the best mechanic for this. It's very intuitive, used quite a lot and makes sense in most sets, cause most sets will have at least some sort of graveyard theme. On top of that, I think bounce is a great idea too. It really does cut the length of card text down and is very intuitive.
@ScyllaCephalopod
3 жыл бұрын
Something adjacent to this I've thought about are Draw and Discard. Discard went from "Target player discards two cards from their hand" to "Target player discards two cards" because, where else would they discard from? It could be "Target player discards 2" because, what else would they discard? Similarly, you could have spells just say "Draw two". It also helps with looting and rummaging: "Draw 1, then discard 1"
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
Very clever!
@Triceratopping
3 жыл бұрын
Mill too. As you say, what else are you milling if not cards? "Target players mills 5."
@olihoisl7546
2 жыл бұрын
But cutting the "target player" part makes the card weaker since in a special situation you could choose an enemy and with "draw 2" you couldn't.
@zackestin1368
2 жыл бұрын
late reply, but a LOT of other card games actually do use discard as card destruction like magic used to 20 years ago, including pokemon and yugioh both, so for the sake of people moving over from those games there might actually be some confusion wrt the "where else would they discard from" line.
@hunterthorne4671
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like I'm at a unique position in this argument, I am currently teaching someone magic, (someone who's first language is not English) and her remembering all the keywords is actually a larger barrier that I didn't even consider when I was teaching her
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
This might be the most meaningful comment I've read so far.
@alkex1
2 жыл бұрын
This!! Magic isn't available in English only but many people play with cards in other languages. Keywording is a double edge sword
@gregoryarledge1272
2 жыл бұрын
But you are teaching her with English cards, correct? Would she have as much trouble if the keywords were in her native language. They are not going to keyword only the English cards. Otherwise how do cards like Odric work in other languages, or the Bonders from Ikoria? As an example a translation team should be able to find a non-offensive word that means something like "cold" for a Freeze effect. (not advocating for Freeze, just using it as an example)
@only1sn1not1taken
3 жыл бұрын
"This card" or "this creature" etc is the one I would want the most. It's how I usually read the card as is since it makes it easier to understand. I have to tell new players all the time that multiple copies of "Massacre Girl" doesn't work the way the card reads.
@gregoryarledge1272
2 жыл бұрын
I've always called instantaneous exile and return effect Flicker and the ones that exile until end of turn Blinks. Why not use both instead of just Blink? Both effects are insanely wordy.
@runofthemillstone9378
2 жыл бұрын
Needs more upd00ts!
@chrismarlow9585
3 жыл бұрын
I didn't know people called it "freeze". I always called it "sleep" after the card literally called sleep that does it to all an opponent's creatures. I have fond memories of playing it as a kid as a finisher of sorts.
@ertai222
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah me too. I don't think I've ever actually heard freeze.
@yamimichael297
3 жыл бұрын
Freeze is one I personally should have remembered, as it did exist as a Duel Masters ability,, to do the same thing...but only briefly. So all the other cards that do it are just unkeyworded.
@DaKareerKilla
3 жыл бұрын
I'd definitely want Bounce out of the suggested options, because I feel like it's one of the most widely used short hands used by players that I've come across, and as such I think it would make sense for newer players to pick up and learn.
@ToxicAtom
3 жыл бұрын
I am all for Surveil becoming deciduous, and having sets that just use it in place of scry entirely. Honestly, I think Midnight Hunt would as a whole be better if every non-reprint card that scries surveilled instead, and then just make surveil equivalents for those reprints. In a graveyard-matters set like most Innistrad sets, that one little tweak could make Limited just that much more cohesive, while also giving some new tools to Constructed as well.
@angelojohnson9441
3 жыл бұрын
“Activate anytime you could play a sorcery” needs to be changed to something else, period. With cards like Quicken and Vedalken Orrery that change when spells can be cast, I, a person who has been playing since before the original Mirrodin block, thought this meant I could now activate these abilities with such cards/emblems active. My point is that a veteran like myself getting tripped up isn’t good, because that very likely means that newer players are more likely to fall to the same faulty logic I used. The line of text means “use only during your main phase” which is still a mouthful but it is less words and characters than what is already there. I left out “one of” in the suggested text to avoid the possible confusion of trying to use it during the precombat main phase and then thinking it could not be used again on the post combat main phase or that once it was used it could never be used again.
@ms.sysbit5511
3 жыл бұрын
The main phase wouldn’t be accurate. You’d need to say “When you have priority and the stack is empty during your turn’s main phase” to be accurate. Quite the mouthful, no? But I thought the same thing with Sadistic Hypnotist and Flash granters but nope!
@veggiedragon1000
2 жыл бұрын
I just learned from this comment I can't activate such abilities with Vedalken Orrery....
@JediMB
3 жыл бұрын
I do think Surveil is my top pick for getting (universally) keyworded. I like the idea of it as an evergreen or deciduous mechanic that can be tagged in to replace Scry whenever you want more graveyard focus.
@golgariguy
3 жыл бұрын
I'm really hoping for "return target creature to the battlefield" = "reanimate target creature" one day :)
@lachumayo
Жыл бұрын
I know you, you're that account from Twitter!
@golgariguy
Жыл бұрын
@@lachumayo got me!
@HienNguyenHMN
3 жыл бұрын
Using "THIS [permanent]" makes sense. You already do it for "This spell can't be countered." You'd have to be a little more specific (e.g., "this creature") than just "this". Argument for: it reduces confusion with copy/clone effects.
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
But what if it changes type? Just as confusing as clones, though I suppose this happens less often.
@FLAESK1
3 жыл бұрын
Also, the way it's templated now is ambiguous, I've had to explain amny times to newer players that "when X attacks/etbs do Y" only refers to the specific card and not all cards named X.
@PalPlays
2 жыл бұрын
I'm still holding out for Last Second. It resolves last. I also want a color to have an instant speed effect that puts a spell on the bottom of the stack.
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
1- great topic and video. 2- mtg is the best at using keywords and making things easy to understand. 3- yugioh could learn a thing or two watching this video 4- shortning things just for the sake of it isnt the way to go. i understand there is a certain amount of presure to go in that direction, perhaps due to more and more digital card games being released. 5- The colour pie defines magic for me and it is the most copied aspect of the game. that combined with the richness of flavour makes me dislike the idea of uniforization things like deal magic( see the part about burn) 6- concerning keywords: probably too late to change it but it always bothered me that white got lifelink since to me it seems a black ability, that of stealing the lifeforce out of something. 7- Arrives is so bland. enters the battlefield is wordy but somehow epic, do we want summoning to be boring? rather just it be ETB. 8- freeze is a good word but paralyze covers more ground. not all colours use ice to stop creatures. 9- tutor also sounds wrong and is too generic. green mages charge up frequently( search land and place them on the field)), black mages sell their souls to demons to get what they need, white mages pray for reinforcments. 10- we should talk about things. just dont reduce magic´s flavour since it is one of the things that make the game special.
@BlindOracle00
2 жыл бұрын
yugioh watched this video plenty. it suffers from the 'blink' issue. there is a difference between if and when.
@williamsimkulet7832
3 жыл бұрын
Freeze - Unlikely. GOOD. You propose using it more; but you forget that these effects create memory issues in the game, as does exert. You might as well use depletion counters. It's a cumbersome, unfun effect. On a limited (C) it's fine. But don't do it too often. Enters the Battlefield - Possibly. BAD. Setting aside "Leaves the Battlefield," this is such a core aspect of the game that your keywording obsoletes too many words on my cards for no practical value.
@whalesequence
3 жыл бұрын
Arrives vs enters the battlefield is not a good idea. Too many triggers get muddy.
@vicpc55
3 жыл бұрын
My favorite template change isn't actually a new keyword, it's making shuffling after searching a library part of the rule for searching, instead of having to be written out every time
@SuperFlashfish
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video, Gavin! I like a lot of the insights on evergreen mechanics brought up and the suggestions players had for new keywords. I would be interested in seeing Surveil become evergreen, but sets could only use it or Scry to avoid confusion. That seems like a fair compromise. I want to ask if you could make a "Part 2" to this video that focuses on creature evergreen mechanics shared between the two-color pairings (such as Flying in White/Blue, Haste and Reach in Red/Green, etc.) and how likely Blue/Red could receive one. I know R&D tried prowess for a while and that didn't pan out, but I'd love to hear if there have been any ideas thrown around to solve it. Thanks!
@righteousforest5538
3 жыл бұрын
Another thing you didn't mention (that some other card games do already) is baking "shuffle your library" into the rules for searching a library.
@williamsimkulet7832
3 жыл бұрын
Blink - Unlikely. GOOD. "Activate only as a sorcery" - Possible - BAD. "Sorcery" is ALREADY the game's keyworded text for SORCERY SPEED EFFECTS, and this effect is rarely used; it's only used on repeatable activated abilities that do "sorcery" things. Threaten - Unlikely. GOOD.
@SynSabre
3 жыл бұрын
Obsidian Fireheart uses Burn as a keyword to refer to the land with the blaze counter on it continuing to burn.
@brokeDSU
3 жыл бұрын
My proposal is that you keyword "Questing," meaning: "CARDNAME has vigilance, deathtouch, and haste. CARDNAME can't be blocked by creatures with power 2 or less. Combat damage that would be dealt by creatures you control can't be prevented. Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to an opponent, it deals that much damage to target planeswalker that player controls." Think of all the space you could save 😉
@QuintMarvel
2 жыл бұрын
The one that strikes me is "Mana Washing." When you're spending mana as any color, then the color is meaningless. Essentially, the card becomes colorless. So, you could say... "You may cast that card for its total Mana Value until end of turn." Or I would call it "Clear Cost." EX "When Protean Hulk dies, search your library for any number of creature cards with a Clear Cost 6 or less, put them onto the battlefield, then shuffle." EX "Whenever Daxos of Meletis deals combat damage to a player, exile the top card of that player’s library. You gain life equal to that card’s Clear Cost. Until end of turn, you may cast that card for its Clear Cost".
@keatonjohnston7258
2 жыл бұрын
"When "this" creature arrives" sounds so bad to the ear. However, flavor wise it makes me think if a planswalker duel drags on longer, it can cause allies to appear and join in the battle as creatures cards. This changes, in my mind, the idea of plainswalkers (players of the game irl) casting creatures via magic. Sadly just changing the cards text to "When this creature EBT do X" doesn't work. Abbreviating "Enters the Battlefield" to ETB is sadly only intuitive to long time players and new players won't always know what the abbreviation means or have the opportunity to look it up. I love this game but I do not envy having to discuss and work out changes to such an amazingly complex game. Best of luck to you and your coworkers. This channel is awesome! Please don't stop the amazing content.
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
I think bounce should just be made a keyword, and maybe be used more in white alongside it. And if ETBs and Cardname could work, that would be great too. And since I'd love to see more Surveil, I'm also for evergreening it. And, as others have mentioned, turning "Activate as a sorcery/only once each turn" into part of the cost would help memorizing. And on the subject of "blinking", "impulse" and "loot/rummage" having multiple different versions of very similar effects, I think it would be an interesting idea for a video to go over why this is the case. Why not stick to one way that blinking effects work, one way impulse works and either loot or rummage?
@corhydrae3238
2 жыл бұрын
One more reason to keyword mechanics is to make it easier to print specific support. Once a chunk of rules is condensed and named, you can print cards that reference the keyword and work off of it. Which is why I really, REALLY want "freeze" to be keyworded. It would be such a fun Azorius archetype. "Destroy all frozen permanents" "Whenever you freeze a permanent, draw a card" "Activated abilities of frozen permanents can't be activated" There's sooo much design space to explore.
@monkfishy6348
Жыл бұрын
"Animate as a..." is much shorter than "Stuffed Bear becomes a..." it halves the character count on this card (varying with name length). You don't need to specify the card's name, as the Animate keyword can be coded to always mean "This card becomes the stated creature". It also sounds a lot snappier and more 'magicky'. The wording also helps the player feel like an active participant in the act of turning that card into a creature through the use of animation magic, whereas it currently uses very passive language.
@ThisNameIsBanned
3 жыл бұрын
If a mechanic is Landfall, it should be labeled landfall, if it then spells it out, have it as reminder text, it does the same. Avoiding keywords if the mechanic is exactly that is more confusing, as you sort cards by mechanics or search them by keywords, and if they dont have the keyword, while the effect is exactly the same, its just plain confusing and unecesessary. A ability like "Ward" is a terrible keyword, as even NOW a lot of people dont know what it actually does, when and how it triggers and at what moment you have to pay the costs or whats happening. Its outright terrible. Most keywords are outright terrible and solve no problem, as reading cards is not a problem, unless the words are wasted. People READ a card just once to remember what it does, and then you only read it when something specifically in detail matters, and in that case spelling it out what the ability does is way better than hiding it behind keywords. Dungeons and special tokens like Investigate / Food are incredible confusing and hide their abilities behind keywords and mechanics, which is horrendously bad and a new player has absolutely no idea what is happening. Read the card explains the card is BIG ... and if thats not true anymore, you have a much produced a much worse problem.
@lukedq8894
3 жыл бұрын
Why would you choose "arrives" over simply "enters"?
@Trogdorbad
Жыл бұрын
i'm obviously really late, and haven't even finished the vid yet, but I have to make a statement about Arrives: If we were still on the old Magic lore, where the creatures etc were all literally being pulled from their home planes (according to the internal lore doc for Homelands at least [which makes summoning sickness make sense compared to the modern version]), then Arrives as the term would be fine, even if I'm not a fan of how it would read (arrives under your control, if it arrived from a graveyard, etc) However, it doesn't really check out under what I understand modern lore to be: planeswalkers summoning images of people they've known or met, etc. While I don't think any form of keywording it would *sound* better, if I had to go with one, it'd be Apparate. Seeing as they're being created out of thin air, "Whenever this creature or another creature apparates under your control" and the like feel better to read than Arrives. Plus it fits better with how blinking works than Arrives would too. That all being said, ETB is fine as is and I can't see any reason to change it. Works perfectly for all purposes.
@tinfoilslacks3750
Жыл бұрын
The *one* advantage of keywording ETB, discussed by MaRo during his ride to work on Azorius, is that if it becomes a keyword cards can now refer to that keyword more cleanly, concisely and thoroughly. We do have some cards which do this, like Elesh Norn, but if you keyword it then you can much more radically implement cards that care about or interact with ETBs, like a card that gains the ETB effects of all allies for instance. Basically keywording it allows it to be used modularly.
@PatJamma
3 жыл бұрын
May I please request a "dies" equivalent for artifacts, and to a lesser extent enchantments? So many cards care about when artifacts are put into the graveyard from the battlefield, most often times the artifact card in question itself. I think we're long overdue for a "scrapped" or "breaks"
@andrewsparkes8829
3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't mind if they just said "dies" for them. It'd even work in flavor: When you play Magic, you are the planeswalker yourself, summoning up magical 'replicas' of the creatures/artifacts/etc you saw on your travels. So it makes total sense for the magical entity you created of a memory of an artifact to fade and die, much like how the magical memory of a creature dies when you cannot keep it summoned anymore. Even moreso for enchantments, which are literally ongoing spells in the first place - it being removed is the spell dying as much as a creature dies.
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
a thing to consider
@GaaradancepartyX
Жыл бұрын
Daunt is solved with a number, Daunt 2 is two or less for example. Also for the drain one drain is lose life gain life then give the damage spells lifelink. It is already a keyword, makes sense, and we have had instance and sorceries gain lifelink from cards so we know it has precedence
@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299
3 жыл бұрын
Evergreen Suggestions: Cycling, Scrying, Surveil, Clues, Food, Treasure all of these help the game move more smoothly. I have always thought that the core set should always introduce new evergreen mechanics. Most confusing text I have read in awhile: The Mythos Ikoria cycle :P
@RasmusVJS
3 жыл бұрын
Scry and Treasures are evergreen, right? Scry definitely is.
@thewonderdoc2999
2 жыл бұрын
What I would like to see keyworded is the inverse of Menace. „Can not be blocked by more than one creature“ call it „Challenger“ or sth because the creature only stops in its tracks for a true 1vs1 duel.
@michaelmorris4515
2 жыл бұрын
"This" instead of the card's formal name feels incredibly natural to me because in most object oriented programming languages "this" is a reserved keyword referencing the current instance of a class in scope.
@benjyskutch-freedman6839
3 жыл бұрын
"Chan-draw" is a wonderful pun.
@TijmenDal
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! I can see why 'enters the battlefield' would become keyworded, but it's a very short line of text that's very evocative. 'Arrives' sounds like your Snapcaster Mage shows up for his appointment, instead of you as a planeswalker summoning him onto the battlefield (as it's currently worded)
@LK90512
3 жыл бұрын
This
@patonnight
2 жыл бұрын
Bounce seems apropiate. We already have Destroy and Exile, for put it in the graveyard or remove it from the game respectively. So I don't see why not.
@sinisterpuddle6655
2 жыл бұрын
keywording cards that steal an opponents card would have to be a word that is not simple like steal pr take a card. for young or casual players, if it is not incredibly clear what the card does, they might think they get to permanently steal their opponents cards. i know it's what i wouldve thought as a kid if my card told me to steal the top card of my opponents library
@benjamindavidgoebel1818
3 жыл бұрын
I hate arrives, please don't do that. Everyone will still just say etb. Surveil is one I'd like to be evergreen though
@JO11190
3 жыл бұрын
"Steal (take a card and mana wash it)" "Bounce" and "Can't be blocked by power X or less" into a word like "Daunting X" You already have modular keywords. Ward 1, ward 3, ward 10...Just put a number after the keyword to specify what's the desired treshold. To me these "we want modular control on a keyword" arguments are bogus because so many already use granular design space as simple numbers after the keyword.
@HienNguyenHMN
3 жыл бұрын
I've always thought not making Menace modular was a waste... they still make what's effectively "menace 3" on some cards!
@codyhamlet4722
3 жыл бұрын
What I got from the video. This is mostly in red so unlikely to keyword. This is mostly in blue, so likely to keyword.
@joelreschke6200
3 жыл бұрын
Tutor chops off way more if you lump "then shuffle your library" in with the text it replaces since its text that is part of every search. You could even lump in "reveal it" for cards going to your hand since its far more likely you will have to and could just call out the few times you don't have to reveal it.
@The5lacker
2 жыл бұрын
You can't remove features from keywords if you don't happen to need them for that particular card. Also "your library" has already been chopped off tutor effects, given you can pretty safely imply you're going to be shuffling the thing you just searched that's also the only thing you ever do shuffle, outside of, like, one exception that comes to mind. Oh Ghastly Conscription, you so crazy.
@greekPharaoh666
3 жыл бұрын
"You may use mana as tho it was mana of any color" i hate saying that line😅 please figure out somethin for that ♥️
@crafter1300
3 жыл бұрын
Instead of using “this” or “this creature” you could go the route of Legends of Runeterra and use “I”. So mulldrifter would be “When I enter the battlefield, draw 2 cards.” Or even “When I arrive, draw 2 cards.” Instead of currently “When mulldrifter enters the battlefield, draw 2 cards.” “I” is a bit more clear the “this” is in the examples Gavin gave like with Wood Elves and White Dragon, since it doesn’t end up with weird “this” and “that” wordings. Though I admit it takes a bit of getting used to having cards refer to themselves in first person.
@Seergun
3 жыл бұрын
This doesn't work with non creatures, so I don't see this ever working
@sharlockshacolmes9381
3 жыл бұрын
The thing I don't like with certain keyword is how they limit the fantasy of certain card, for example Freeze work well with most blue cards that tap creature because they are often linked to time magic or ice, but for the white cards where it's more often about binding or blinding a creature "freeze don't work as well" maybe "binding" is less defined and thus wouldn't limit the card fantasy as much. Exert could work as well but it still imply an action being made by the creature to exert itself. Othewise surveil 100% should be a keyword, the mechanic is pretty simple and really useful. And sure it could be confusing for a new player with scry but not much more than protection from a color, ward and hexproof that are mechnic that share sets. Maybe discard could become a keyword even thought id don't free much space, and the exiling equivalent of mill could be one too but that one is barely used.
@goncaloferreira6429
3 жыл бұрын
paralyze instead of freeze. could work for black effects aas well as in paralyzed with fear( a terryfing creature ETBs)
@MakeVarahHappen
3 жыл бұрын
The thing that annoys me more is that when you keyword stuff you often don't errata enough things. Why does Frost Titan not have Ward still? This even can lead to mechanical issues because back in Future sight Lifelink was a triggered ability but in Magic 2010 it became a passive ability yet everything that had identical text to Lifelink but wasn't keyworded remained a triggered ability.
@stevenglowacki8576
3 жыл бұрын
Lifelink is a special case. The problem with it was that it was originally keyworded in the form that it originally appeared as, but people didn't like the fact that they didn't gain the life until after the damage was processed. Thus in one of the major rules updates, they changed what the keyword does, which changed all cards ever printed with "lifelink" on them, but didn't change any card that had never been (re)printed with lifelink. The only major card I remember being printed both ways was Loxodon Warhammer. I have a feeling that they are going to be much less likely to make such a definitional change of keywords, but it's certainly a concern.
@dwpetrak
2 жыл бұрын
“This” would make me sooooooooo happy. So many cards would be improved: “This deals 3 damage to any target” or “when this or another enchantment…” Whenever people ask me to read a card I already say “this” in lieu of its name because it’s fewer words which translates into less mental load (for all of us.)
@callumvlex7059
2 жыл бұрын
When I was learning magic, I thouht if a second card with the same name was in play they'd both see each other and be "that's your name too" when this enters would have stopped me thinking my second Elvish Reclaimer caused two triggers. I's shorter, and clearer.
@ZanderEzekial77
3 жыл бұрын
I am 100% for Surveil as a mechanic that can appear beyond Dimir, keyword it forever.
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