1: Make world 2: Fill it up with things to do 3: Add main story This way it feels like the story is happening in a place rather than a place happening around a story.
@belzebubbby
10 жыл бұрын
Repeat 1, 2 & 3 untill you run out of time/budget.
@yeckiLP
10 жыл бұрын
I think why this doesn't happen, is that you'd throw a huge chunk of you budget into a project and would than have to ope that someone comes up with a gerat and fitting story that doesn't feel taged on.. might just be me
@NicholasSalay
10 жыл бұрын
yeckiLP When I made campaigns in my old DnD days, that was actually the approach I would have used to make my campaigns. First I'd just make the geography, then I put stuff in it, towns, lairs, nests, interesting features, etc, made sure to give these places history, and thought about how they would interact with each other, if at all. This is most easily done by at least taking inspiration from already written stories, or adding the entire stories to your world, making adjustments when necessary so it all makes sense. THEN, finally I made the actual plot. The plot rarely came off as forced so long as I allowed it to make itself, rather than think about how things should progress every single time. Just add an element to your world, and see what happens. Think about how it will react to your world. What would happen as time progressed? How will the old relations be affected etc etc. Essentially I rode the wave of the logical next step in your world, and add in twists and character development where necessary. The problem with making the story first, is now that, no matter how hard you try, you're going to subconsciously bend the world around the story, and that's going to make it more linear and more bland than it ought to be, taking the exploration out of it. That's crippling for open-world games. You don't need to spend alot of budget going down a path that won't work. There's no animating or programming or scripting here. You just draw a map on grid paper, put stuff in it, and write a story (or take one). This is all stuff you can do in pre-planning. It all just takes time.
@BovinaSancta79
10 жыл бұрын
nsgamer22 That´s pretty much how I did it to. I think it worked pretty well.
@CrizzyEyes
10 жыл бұрын
nsgamer22 That's exactly why WotC sells books that detail settings in D&D, along with actual adventure modules. They do the world-building for you (which for me, is a daunting task that I have never personally undertaken) so you can focus on making a story that fits. Baldur's Gate had this done for them as well; their game was set in Forgotten Realms, which is a pre-established D&D setting.
@shadowsivice1
8 жыл бұрын
3:54 I see that banner. I absolutely agree. Dragon's Dogma was amazing.
@LaszloIvanyi
7 жыл бұрын
You have not mentioned GR: Wildlands, which I really liked in terms of how they solved the open world setting. There are zones there, and you can transit between them as you like in a seamless fashion. They designed it with a certain main goal for each zone and additional goodies like extra weapons to find which made you explore that given zone more only because you were hunting for a specific enemy / item. It was less of an exploration as Skyrim, since you more or less knew why you go there and where you will find it, yet it was kept interesting enough though the story so you sometimes invested in keeping in the zone just to shut down a certain villain. They solved it by inserting the story when you changed zones. You always had a dialogue explaining what is happening there and what you will need to advance in that zone. The zones were more or less at an equal difficulty, so you had no pressure to finish one before moving to another. It really felt like you are in 1 enormous map where you are free to go wherever you want. Of course the game was slightly easier that way, but I really enjoyed that it was this easy "Go around blow stuff up, accomplish stuff, destabilize zones etc. It was not a hard game but an enjoyable one.
@ArvidHagelberg
10 жыл бұрын
I think Red Faction: Guerilla does this pretty well. The world feels connected, but each area has its own aesthetics, backstory and dangers. Since the borders are provinces with local governance that you are tasked with overthrowing, the developers were able to craft a quest line for each area. And being sent on a mission in a new area ahead of unlocking it is a very powerful experience, as is travelling back to the first area after getting used to the later ones. Seeing the sky turn red from the transition into Parker (the first area) after hours of playing in EOS (the semi-last) is, to me, like coming home again.
@ArvidHagelberg
10 жыл бұрын
Borderlands 2 also deserves a mention. It does not have smooth transitions, but each area has a remarkably consistent and different feel. But despite it having areas ranging from frozen wastes to a river of fire it all feels connected. From a high cliff on a forested mountain you can look out over hazy deserts and deep gorges. A bridge might give you a view of the icy glacier the player starts in. Also, the game has no falling damage, so getting to a magnificent vista usually means you can jump right off of it. And that is awesome.
@Titan360
10 жыл бұрын
I've been reading a lot on running a megadungeon campaign with old school D&D, and how the dungeon is in fact a sandbox of exploration and player agency with minimal distractions within the dungeon about. Megadungeons actually encourage avoiding and negoiating with the monster groups therein as much as fighting with them, as recovered treasure awards the bulk of experience points. (You aren't supposed to be able to clear the whole thing out, anyway) Find treasure, get out. But sometimes, its interesting for the players (possibly at higher levels if they haven't died yet) to spend some gold or be requested by some big wig to go to an exotic locale a get involved in a conflict that requires them to actually clear out a lair (or at least, defeat the boss/complete some other objective) with lots of set pieces that can explosively help or hinder the completion of such an adventure. (Castle Ravenloft had a Sunblade AND a deck of many things? Really?) Basically, I'd combine megadungeon with occasional, optional modules.
@farrex0
8 жыл бұрын
I believe that DS1 is the better example, Lordran just feels like one cohesive world were everything is connected and while you do not see huge landmasses like in an Elder Scrolls game, there is not one single loading screen and I could actually draw a whole map if asked by memory. The place is so cohesive that it might be the only game I have not fast traveled. DS2 is more of a Zelda Majora's Mask type of world but without loading screens, were you travel to locations that feel so different from one another and it is not as cohesive, even then I think that majora's did a better job. Also in DS2 there are hidden loading screens, like the elevators that take you completely different areas, for some reason. DS1 is an small but extremely well crafted Open World. Well all of this is my opinion.
@farrex0
8 жыл бұрын
TheBasti82 Well to be fair, no Dark Souls game has been an Open World. It is more like connected levels. So they are linear in design and then they are connected through passages and shortcuts. DS2 adds Level-Barriers too, 40% of the game is blocked by the progress of the character, like Drangleic Castle, and the Symbol of the King areas, also the memories What in my opinion makes DS1 the closest to being an open world is not the accessibility, since you need to complete certain stages of the game to access them. Even with the closed areas in DS1, DS1 felt more like an open world to me than DS2, even when none of the two are open world, is how everything is connected making it feel like a real and cohesive world. Instead of going up on an elevator in the top of a tower, and ending on top of a sea of lava. Don't get me wrong I still love DS2, I am not of those that bash the game blindly, but that game has its issues.
@maxjambon3117
10 жыл бұрын
Haha that ending music brought back memories... On a more serious thought, I feel like those two different approaches lead to sandbox MMOs vs theme park MMOs
@benwatts92
10 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MENTIONING BALDUR'S GATE! great game! the second game i fell in love with (after age of empires 2) it helped me get into reading, though R.A. Salvatore, and overcome my dyslexia! no idea why anyone should care, but i will always be grateful for it and now i must geek out
@julianmrgl9568
3 жыл бұрын
i would personally combine the two by having nothing defind solely by details but also by open world missions where the missions chenge as you cross an area without noticing: the missions get harder or there is a new bit of storyline branching off
@Belbecat
10 жыл бұрын
So good to hear Baldur's Gate being talked about! It's my favourite game next to Fallout 1, which is I think another game that could have been used as an example in this episode too :)
@Exaltable
10 жыл бұрын
Im sure you guys are gonna get a TON of comments about this but you REALLY need to look at Divinity: Original Sin. Its the game that's been closest to the black isle games I played a ton of when I was younger. The game has a unique system with its coop that makes it so both players can shape and roleplay their characters relationships through in game dialogues. Really cool game. Check it out if you haven't yet!
@myvanwycalista3387
10 жыл бұрын
Freelancer solved that problem. Freelancer was open world split into defined modules. While you could use the - super speed travel to move from station to station, if you flew far enough out, you would eventually reach another station anyway without any noticeable loading. At least that's how I remember it, it's been a while now. It's odd. Whenever I try to think of a good example of a game, it's always either Unreal Tournament, Freelancer or Morrowind that I look at. Like - those are the three giants of games, the best at what they do. It would be good to have an open source engine based on either of those three games.
@nickst0ne
10 жыл бұрын
I often equate "open-world" with "generative". Even if the generation happens only within the developer premises and that the world is then the same for everybody, as was the case with Daggerfall. If you give people more space than they can reasonably explore, then you've got yourself an open world. You then need to imbue the denizens of your world with just enough complexity and diversity (fuzzy logic?) to make your world both relatable/coherent and yet let situations emerge which will offer the player an opportunity to chime in. 2 NPC's who hate each other might want to hire an assassin or a 3rd party might want to hire a mediator to reconcile everybody.
@89taklung
10 жыл бұрын
you know what would also be a nice episode: Games as art by looking at The Void. It's the only game I know of that was featured in a museum, plusa nice example of non-american games, it's Russian which you really don't see too often. It's a bit older but really beutifull and interesting, definately worth an episode
@braxtonrasmussen2110
8 жыл бұрын
we could always have a seemless open world with different kingdoms and when you cross the border into a new kingdom instead of it saying "hey are you sure you want to go to kingdom such and such" instead as you cross your avitar is going along and you are either stopped by or spot a group of soldiers on border control that have their kindom's flag or colors so you as a player can realize where you are in the open world with out throwing a loading screen or a thingy that says "hey you leaveing kingdom such and such!"
@jeffengee2000
9 жыл бұрын
This series is brilliant for game developers. Thank you so much for the insights.
@edkozak9925
9 жыл бұрын
That game with a shovel was so cute!
@LittleBabywriter
10 жыл бұрын
I woud like to see an episode about Planescape Torment. How is it made to be so legendary epic? Like: what elements of that game makes it so good and what are disadvantages of it?
@sonicloyalfan
10 жыл бұрын
I prefer Bethesda's approach myself. it allows more player freedom and makes the story more individual, that is to say the story of your character and his/her adventures across the land will be very different from mine. of course the second approach has it's merits. I like to call it the rainbow states approach (because the map in these games are usually broken up into section that are color coordinated to indicate difficulty.) some times you just want to hear a good traditionally told story with a predefined structure. one method really isn't any better at story telling than the other it just comes down to personal taste and what mood your in at the time. there is one very important aspect to this subject I think you guys should go into, lore. having good lore for your open world can be the deciding factor in whether people stay interested. the land of Skyrim has an almost tangible atmosphere and texture to it. it feels like there is a story behind every ruin, castle, and home and there often is. the world feels lived in is me point and that makes it feel as if your doing more than navigating a space to achieve an objective, your riding over the hills to and far away to seek adventure, save lives, and learn more about this land full of mystery and legend.
@lyingtarot9606
7 жыл бұрын
I feel like BOTW did a great job with this
@ClickToPreview
6 жыл бұрын
There at the end you almost described Fallout: New Vegas in a sense... each town (module) had a specific environmental feel and specific stuff going on that you can tackle... or not. And yet, there's also an overarching main thrust of driving you to find the man who shot you in the head... that then changes into a completely different arc that leads to the actual ending. Good stuff.
@writingdraftswithCCGHawkins
10 жыл бұрын
I wish you took a look at Dark Souls 1, not Dark Souls 2. The world design is far more cohesive and if you take a look at the full 3d map of the game, it's clear that the design team started with the big picture first. While each section (ie blighttown, anor londo etc) clearly has a different theme, they all are part of a world that's always in the background. For example, Firelink Shrine and Anor Londo are on top of the pillars which Blighttown is centered on and The Kiln is inside the giant metal kiln that's part of Lost Izalith.
@NoizeOMancer
9 жыл бұрын
In my opinion Elder Scrolls Oblivion delivered this quite good. It had an open world, it had zones within that world each with stories of their own, unique scenery that flows naturally into each other and quests surrounding the Area that stay true to the lore. To me Oblivion was the best Elder Scrolls game of them all. Am I the only one that missed traversing the planes of Oblivion in Skyrim? Dragons are cool... but Deadra and their black arts kick ass Sideways!
@Me-ui1zy
10 жыл бұрын
2:38 that boat is really close to where I live, it's not there anymore
@box_inabox
10 жыл бұрын
How about mario galaxy planet esq design in which a player can jump into a spaceship and actively fly through a galaxy and land on different planets, this could make the planets into boundary defined possibly themed zones without an immersion destroying loading screen, the player could also have battles while in space so the travel method itself becomes part of the game. (I haven't actually played mario galaxy I'm just misinterpreting the advert to my advantage) I know that Starmade uses a similar mechanic although it doesn't use it well. Thoughts?
@8BitBronyz
7 жыл бұрын
Pokemon is almost modular. almost. I think they do what all open world games tend to do. They have a large open world that's polished to feel kind of modular. Take Lavender town for instance. It puts pokemon beside itself in a meaningful way. That's all to say that the module starts right as you hear that Lav town music. I feel you could get away with modules separated by lines of generic, quiet, uneventful music between "worlds". Then letting the change in music begin the idol of the module.
@GallowglassAxe
10 жыл бұрын
With the new Zelda game being "open world" I wonder which approach they're going to pick. I know a lot of fans are expecting it to be seamless like the Elder Scrolls but the module idea makes more sense. I feel like this misunderstanding is going to hurt the game a bit.
@jhughesvalentine
10 жыл бұрын
I guess you guys never played Mercenaries. It was very much sandbox, as well as open world, and if you paid attention, there was plenty of side as well as main story to get in to
@kevanbennett76
7 жыл бұрын
BREATH OF THE WILD ANYONE??!!!
@Hughes81
10 жыл бұрын
I really liked Kingdoms of Amalur (That's right, I said it) and how they divided up the different realms. They tried to have it both ways and while I don't think they were completely successful, it wasn't all that terrible either.
@Urchino1337
10 жыл бұрын
Perhaps I'm just missing the point entirely here, but: Designing areas as modules is good as it allows for each area to have it's own cohesive story, where as if you just scattered dungeons, towns, NPCs and encounters around, you get the world to feel more realistic, but you lack cohesion. However, aren't those modules just a collection of dungeons, towns, NPCs and encounters that are all themed the same and come together to create a story? As I said previously, I'm probably missing the point, but can't you just break down module areas into their component parts and then scatter them around the environment in as realistic a manner as possible? That way all of the different aspects of the story / adventure are still linked, but are placed in a more realistic and less segmented manner.
@XYGamingRemedyG
7 жыл бұрын
Makes me wonder how he'd feel about the Breath of the Wild.
@robertofontiglia4148
8 жыл бұрын
I think GTA V does the module thing pretty well, doesn't it ? GTA San Andreas did this too, and The Witcher 3 does this too, but is not as seamless...
@thelinedrive
7 жыл бұрын
Roberto Fontiglia true you can see the seams but it also lets you freely travel back and forth finding various different adventures.
@sebastianlucas7449
10 жыл бұрын
we need more 3ds open world games
@dontchewglass
7 жыл бұрын
How about module-esque areas that phase into one another with ambiguous, gradually transitioning borders?
@pifilixxiv3192
7 жыл бұрын
i have a idea: The modules are they own worlds (i mean in Kingdom Hearts style) and you go thought them as a small adventure. After it you come back to the hub world and choose your next one.
@BFedie518
7 жыл бұрын
That's basically a more restricted Dark Souls II model (or any game with a hub town).
@pifilixxiv3192
7 жыл бұрын
yeah but they are so to say connected together. So if you go to one, if you find a secret "door" then you can go to a another one.
@shaun056
10 жыл бұрын
As a writer, I sometimes feel it would be better to create the world before deciding on either method. Create the world, the politics and the history and the legends and the towns/dungeons/encounters will fall into place.
@Deafmonkey21
10 жыл бұрын
They did an episode on why a writing-first method can have dire consequences for production. Personally I've found that developing lore and mechanics in tandem (which can be hard since it requires that you have skill in both writing and design) works best overall.
@phillrochardt5840
10 жыл бұрын
Deafmonkey21 Or, you just have a designer/writer team working very closely together. Developing lore and mechanics in tandem is *definitely* a smart way to go. That's probably why the video mentioned that more team communication is essential to creating a more holistic world experience.
@krim7
7 жыл бұрын
I think this approach works well for D&D because you already have the mechanics filled out and set. You can houserule things or create your own classes/races/etc. but the core the game is already complete. With video games, that core mechanical expression of the game is not created.
@exposingurmom5899
3 жыл бұрын
How're you
@goblinoide
3 жыл бұрын
@@exposingurmom5899 lol
@Rotciv7777777
8 жыл бұрын
SO Zelda Breath of the Wild Open World or Sandbox Because you can do both
@thelinedrive
7 жыл бұрын
Rotciv7777777 truth be told I think he's being too strict of differentiating to see the same rules pretty much apply. Even then just sticking to western example 3D action adventure platformers, assassin's creed, Kingdom's of Amalur and the witcher franchise are examples of the module philosophy working in an open world setting and that's before you get to Jrpgs.
@jonnyrussell9806
7 жыл бұрын
Nintendo classifies it as an "Open Air" game.
@jimmyc.491
7 жыл бұрын
Both!! : )
@User-Error
6 жыл бұрын
I have to say its both
@lilac9346
6 жыл бұрын
Both but leaning more to the open world side
@JCDenton2012Modder
8 жыл бұрын
Though this comment will likely be ignored, I can provide some great advise on this subject matter as to 'how' to design an open world. The biggest piece and most crucial advise I can give designers is that the human eye is great at grasping depth detail. Whether you realize it or not, either consciously or subconsciously, the human eye notices straight lines and curves, and extrapolates three-dimensional depth at a glance. Good level designers know this and intentionally make an effort to break up the terrain profile so that players are able to more easily gain immersion from their experiences. Assuming you don't try to break up the terrain and go with a '"flat" surface, the human eye will notice the straight lines and to some degree consciously avoid immersion into the game as an "artificial" experience. This; however, is not a mere matter of simply adding hills. The human eye also extrapolates a basic understanding of basic terrain concepts from real life experience. Adding hills without rocks, trees, grass, etc; to break up the profile will also have the same effect as noticing straight lines.
@jackhume1525
8 жыл бұрын
The ramp versus goblin camp bit. I have a slight argument for that. I mean ultimately yes you're right. But take for example one of my dad's favorite things to do in skyrim. There is this one particular forsworn camp he likes to terrorize. He sets himself up on the cliffs just within render distance of the camp and he snipes them with his bow. If he runs out of arrows he moves to a closer cliff that he can peek over and bait the forsworn into shooting at him. Then he'll duck down behind a rock and catch the arrow as it bounces off the cliff wall behind the rock he's hiding behind. He will literally do this for days. He'll mess around with the camp, wipe out all the forsworn, leave and do something else for a couple in game days, and then come back when he knows the camp is refilled again. So for him the forsworn camp is more like the ramp in your analogy, its a toy for him. He enjoys skyrim quite a bit more than I do for this reason.
@HandSanitizerAttack
8 жыл бұрын
I'm just surprised your dad likes games... :(
@milotristan
8 жыл бұрын
+Hand Sanitizer Attack My dad is a gamer too
@JoViljarHaugstulen
8 жыл бұрын
Oh that reminds me of how tedious "stealth" combat was... shoot 1 arrow... hide and wait for enemies to drop aggro... repeat such a slow crawl Until you get enough stealth to walk up to enemies and just kill them with one hit with daggers...so silly
@Gnurklesquimp
8 жыл бұрын
I'd say many rpg's have a big sandbox element to them.. It's really about exploring and playing with systems right? Skyrim's open world also invites the player to come up with goals that are very personal to them. Even if you'd technically not call it a sandbox, a lot can be learned from sandbox games when making rpg's with deep systems and enough complexity to play around with.
@theresaloop
7 жыл бұрын
That is what damage overhauls are for. At least on pc. I loved the threat of getting hit by one stray arrow and dying, but the trade off of not having to do that shoot and wait nonsense was well worth it. I still did it, but when I did it was called for rather than just for the damage boost. In vanilla getting shot by an arrow wasn't a super big deal, however if I picked off one or two guys and their watchmen zeroed in on me you could die super easy.
@CamsEyeView
10 жыл бұрын
Have you guys talked about how to keep the overall story in the open world RPGs or sandbox games interesting? Because I find that to be the biggest issue where the side quests and lore of the game is much more interesting than the main game. Heck, it's my problem with games like Skyrim and Dragon's Dogma
@CamsEyeView
10 жыл бұрын
IAmTheMikko I agree. I remember playing Dragon's Dogma and while I was having fun fighting giants and hopping ontop of griffins to kill them, I totally forgot the story and that there was one. Same with Kingdoms of Amalur and a majority of RPGs that have open ended gameplay.
@MlSHKlN
9 жыл бұрын
i agree, but keep in mind that its much better than the alternative: a good story with a bunch of boring ass side quests that the devs wasted their time on that you will never do, when they couldv made the base game so much better just look at dragon age lol..
@yasiru221
9 жыл бұрын
Bethesda actually does a really good job at making areas feel holistic. In skyrim, the areas with the autumn theme have custom trees, grass, plants, etc. Same applies to woods, meadows, dungeons, towns, snowy areas, mountains, caves, etc.
@Sabrina0s
7 жыл бұрын
breath of the wild
@klusterfuk3688
5 жыл бұрын
*Orgasm*
@appolloschein5370
5 жыл бұрын
*Ye*
@natanbcpc
4 жыл бұрын
Amen
@Oldfriend841
4 жыл бұрын
breath of the wild
@isaiahwilson3564
3 жыл бұрын
More like breath of the mild lol
@RaggedLands
10 жыл бұрын
I really liked the Open World Design in the Gothic Series. They provided natural boundaries for the player by placing high-level enemies and ridges as well as cliffs.
@oQuindo1
10 жыл бұрын
This is what Fallout New Vegas did at the start of the game as well.
@ArcturusMinsk
10 жыл бұрын
oQuindo1 Honestly, that aspect of New Vegas was just plain terrible.
@falconJB
10 жыл бұрын
oQuindo1 This is done much better in Fallout 1&2.
@bierkofbauer
5 жыл бұрын
"I've got to say, I'm looking forward to seeing a game crack the problem of providing modules, many adventures, and tiny cohesive stories in a seamless open-world design" = Breath of the Wild (2017)
@zorroknowsbetter
7 жыл бұрын
Nintendo watched this video.
@Toiletmac
7 жыл бұрын
5:40 The legand of zelda breath of the wild fixes that problem.
@frankie11998
5 жыл бұрын
Extra Credits: An open-world game with modules, adventures, and a story doesn't exi- *Breath of the Wild*
@theotherguy4456
3 жыл бұрын
this video was made before breath of the wild existed you moron
@krispbreadd
3 жыл бұрын
@@theotherguy4456 I’m pretty sure that’s the point Extra credits says the thing and then botw comes out to prove them wrong
@WalkOnNick
10 жыл бұрын
This seems like an artificial distinction. Dungeons and towns aren't simply plonked down randomly in Elder Scrolls games, they are made based on maps and lore. Morrowind in particular had distinct areas with narratives and dungeons that correlated inside it. I think the more meaningful distinction between TES and Baldur's Gate is that TES is entirely non-linear whereas Baldur's Gate is a lot more directed.
@Notion3D
4 жыл бұрын
Agreed. I am 6 years late but this dude just loves his modules and likes a narrative given to him, as opposed to engaging the World as the narrative. ES will never module down their game the way he suggests, and thank god for that
@TheJaredtheJaredlong
10 жыл бұрын
I guess it could be argued that the Elder Scrolls has done the second approach but just on a really large scale. Skyrim isn't a world, it's a unique part of the larger world.
@benetesilva
10 жыл бұрын
Thats.... not how it works...
@TheJaredtheJaredlong
10 жыл бұрын
Benete Silva What do you mean? They were talking about how designers could either create a world with different types of areas (forest vs town), or create a world with different styled areas (green forest vs winter forest). I'm saying Skyrim has a unique style, but it's still part of the larger world of Tamriel, just like how Morrowind has a different style because it's in a different part of Tamriel.
@GrayderFox
10 жыл бұрын
TheJaredtheJaredlong Yeah, but what difference does that make for Skyrim, the game?
@TheJaredtheJaredlong
10 жыл бұрын
***** Yeah, Skyrim, in itself is the first approach, but the Elder Scrolls considered as an entirety can be seen as the second approach.
@benetesilva
10 жыл бұрын
when people say "open-world" or "game world" they dont literally mean "world", as in, an entire planet. They are talking about the *setting* of the game, regardless if said setting is a country, a continet or whatever. You can't say: _"oh but if you consider the entire series than its the second approach because each game is set in a different place of the same world"_ because thats a given, pretty much *every* game series is like that.
@madness1931
8 жыл бұрын
I'd say one of the best Sand Box kind of game is the Just Cause series, especially once they introduced the grapling hook. Let's face it you're not there for that awful story are you.
@ohwell3692
8 жыл бұрын
just cause -> a game where you compete with yourself to see how big of an explosion you can make
@EvanSawyer4
10 жыл бұрын
About what you say you're looking forward to in the end. It'll be Zelda for Wii U, mark my words! I will make that happen with my wishful thinking alone.
@SitcomedyCD
9 жыл бұрын
I love you guys. Seriously, your show teaches me so much about what I want to eventually do for a living. Thank you for being available as an educational tool that I feel actually applies to the career that I want to pursue.
@adamsapple4350
3 жыл бұрын
how is that going for you now?
@ChrisFinch87
10 жыл бұрын
The fact that different design philosophies is what underlies every design decision, and that the entire team should be on the same page regarding their chosen philosophy, is something that some studio bosses have a very hard time understanding. A project that I'm basically bailing out on (along with two other people, who feel similarly about it) is a great example of how little understanding of actual design methodology some companies tend to have. When I tried to get the boss on the same page, all I ever heard was "You're overcomplicating things." or "Now you're just quoting a game design book.". Why yes, yes I am doing both those things. It's sort of my job to communicate these minute, subtle decisions and problems to others... problems arise when they're not listening.
@The1wsx10
9 жыл бұрын
5:40 i would say far cry 3 did the camps / outposts really well. i played with those heaps, seeing different ways to take them out, using different weapons or distraactions
@deamon6681
8 жыл бұрын
+1wsx10 Best strat: have the best sniper availible at any given point, search for the highest spot near a camp with good vision, and headshot it clear. +1500 points, repeat 50 times more.
@The1wsx10
8 жыл бұрын
Jürgen Hans sure, if you want points. personally i play games for fun ;)
@MichaelAruba
8 жыл бұрын
+1wsx10 Sure, they handled it well but the video makes a good point. You can't "play around" with it in the same way you can in GTA with ramps and shit. When approaching the outposts, you have a goal; Secure the outpost or sneak around/away from it. How you go about it may vary but in the end its kill them, let some animals kill them, or walk away. In contrast, Minecraft enemies can be killed, trapped, used as defenses for your base, slaughtered for items in horrible yet brilliant machinations, and so on. Also, I love Far Cry 3 and also Minecraft so I am unbiased!
@The1wsx10
8 жыл бұрын
+Mike Aruba in the video they mentioned the difference between a sandbox and an open world game. in a sandbox you make your own goals, and an open world you have goals set out for you. in far cry 3/4, aside from the story your mission is to liberate all the outposts similar to just cause. in minecraft there aren't really any goals. sure, you could say the goal is to survive but you can do that by leaving the computer. ok, turn the difficulty up then there is more required of you but you can still do that in a very boring manner. almost all of the features in that game are not required to complete the 'goal'
@GizmoMaltese
7 жыл бұрын
I like Far Cry 4 even better. You could take multiple approaches like Far Cry 3 but you also had a lot of emergent events. I'm about to rescue to some hostages who are walking with captors when an eagle attacks and does half of the job for me.
@AshnSilvercorp
10 жыл бұрын
they are doing interesting with open world design inside of the next Legend of Zelda. I can't wait to see it. When it comes to dark souls 2, areas are sortof open world, but they hide astetics. Meaning in actual collision data of the game, there are several areas that collide when pieced together in a 3D scape. It isn't a bad design, it just makes map making confusing, but obviously a place torn to shreds by the Abyss would have some spacial distortion eh?
@jonesthemoblin1400
10 жыл бұрын
When it comes to a well implemented open world my go-to example is still The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. That game felt more alive and unified than any other open world I have ever played because they didn't build it around the player. I love the fact that you have to choose between Morag Tong and Comona Tong guilds, and even at that you never rise to the top of any house or guild. Yea, to Vivec and Cassius, and Dagoth Ur I was the Nerevarine... but to everyone else I was that random dude piling dishes everywhere. Oblivion built too much around the character (I was Champion of Cyradil, leader of the fighter's guild, Mage's Guild, Thief's guild, AND Dark Brotherhood, as well as the divine crusader AND the god of madness.) And Skyrim was too built around the plot (Gotta take the dragon claw to the dragon shrine so I can kill the dragon priest and get the dragon staff which I can grade for the dragon key to open the dragon door to the dragon library so I can get the dragon cookbook and make myself a dragon brisket)
@Tortferngatr
10 жыл бұрын
Eh, I think saturating the market with rings of waterbreathing made with wolf/deer /fox/rabbit souls and gold smelted from transmuted ore isn't exactly part of the plot of Skyrim. :P
@jonesthemoblin1400
10 жыл бұрын
All I'm saying is that everywhere you turn in Skyrim, everything was Dragons. Sometimes, I like to forget the plot of an Elder Scrolls game when I am exploring the world. Especially after I finish the main story. Once I killed Dagoth in Morrowind, everything else was about me in that world and the DLC was something different entirely.
@jongustafson7655
10 жыл бұрын
DRAGON BRISKET!!!
@liam24040
10 жыл бұрын
I liked the random dragon encounters in skyrim, it made them feel like a part of the world instead of just boss battles. but yeah, the game was a little obsessed with them. i just wish i didn't find Morrowind so dull. not the world, that's amazing, but i came to it this year and the mechanics just feel a bit slow and unpolished for me to enjoy it.
@jonesthemoblin1400
10 жыл бұрын
Taggart The dice roll mechanic in Morrowind can get really annoying at times.
@Julia53808
9 жыл бұрын
Aren't different provinces (when available in TES) also considered zones?
@Julia53808
9 жыл бұрын
***** Well ive never played ESO but they look pretty distinct
@Noah-uj7zp
9 жыл бұрын
***** Nah, PROVINCES really are distinct. Just look at ESO.
@Julia53808
9 жыл бұрын
Jello I guess TES isnt really good with zones
@Noah-uj7zp
9 жыл бұрын
Julia Binarystar But they are diverse looking??
@Julia53808
9 жыл бұрын
Jello Again, never played ESO, I thought you were being sarcastic
@RadionWave
7 жыл бұрын
Looking back on this episode and comparing it to Breath of the Wild is very interesting indeed.
@kuronosan
10 жыл бұрын
I felt the areas in Skyrim were actually well distinguished , Riften(den of intrigue) was very thematically different from say, Windhelm (institutional racism-ville), or Winterhold. Different flora and fauna unique to the areas,Turf wars going on around Markarth, etc.
@Knoloaify
10 жыл бұрын
But the theme only characterized a few quests (forsworns, Riften), dialogues (racism) and how the place looked. It wasn't a full-blown story that encompassed the whole region in it, uniting a whole bunch of characters, dungeons and events. In TES games you never really feel like you "cleared" a region, you only did all the quests inside it, and that's because they aren't tied together into a story. That's what he was trying to say.
@dianawinters1411
9 жыл бұрын
Dark Souls I would have been a better example than Dark Souls II
@kevgmei
9 жыл бұрын
Diana Winters Firelink.
@Sunwakka
9 жыл бұрын
Dark souls 2 have a volcano ontop of a tower. Great map design :P
@no-relic
8 жыл бұрын
+Sunwakka Yeah for real
@ilavalolipop
6 жыл бұрын
5:58 Breath of the Wild
@parsnip237
6 жыл бұрын
6:00 And cue Zelda Breath of the Wild
@dr6559
6 жыл бұрын
WyvernClaw It had a plot?
@neon707
10 жыл бұрын
That whole "modules" thing reminded me of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. While you did have to go through the story one way and go through everything in order, every chapter did feel at least somewhat different and they all had their own mini story line, while all having a connection to the main story line. So maybe you could look at that game to see how to effectively make those mini story lines.
@PFGFrankly
7 жыл бұрын
Suzy Kersten ooooooooooooooo you at me here
@misterfish36
7 жыл бұрын
alright, i got this, just gotta listen to what this guy says and i'll be fine. "so first you have to organize your team" shit
@Kindrick
10 жыл бұрын
I wish I had people to just discuss video game design with.
@Deafmonkey21
10 жыл бұрын
These comment are a decent place for it.
@RogerWazup007
10 жыл бұрын
Have you tried forums at gaming sites like gametrailers? I used to go there a lot, although it's been a while.
@Kindrick
10 жыл бұрын
bleh
@AustinSnider
10 жыл бұрын
I may get a bit of flak for this; but have you guys tried Runescape? I think it does a fairly good job at a modular open world, even though it doesn't have the best mechanics and is a subscription based MMO.
@miguelanjo2776
6 жыл бұрын
6:00 Breath of the wild.
@L0upyb0y
3 жыл бұрын
Wind Waker too (or any Zelda game for that matter)
@henri2140
10 жыл бұрын
Hey Extra Credits, what do you think of the Monster Hunter series?
@christinascott3507
7 жыл бұрын
Excuse me can you please talk about Legend of Zelda breath of the wild for an episode please
@peterbezak5204
7 жыл бұрын
The legend of Zelda Breath of the wild did it very good!
@SP8inc
7 жыл бұрын
Breath of the Wild says hi.
@Alorand
10 жыл бұрын
6:10 - hearing the music again gave me shivers... This is beyond nostalgia, somehow a core bit of who I am has been defined by that series of games, and for that matter all of the previous titles from that developer.
@leeleeisgay
10 жыл бұрын
This is more story oriented world building but wouldn't it just make sense to create a geographic area and put living creatures where it makes sense to have them? Companies like Bethesda don't seem to ask questions like "what do they eat?" when world building. Call me picky but while having a town built around a bomb is cool n everything, what do the people of Megaton eat? There's no farms there or in the surrounding area, a single cow in the town, and everywhere you can scavenge food is filled with bandits. This makes it seem like the people of Megaton are in peril but nah, they're good. Meanwhile in Fallout New Vegas, the very first town your in has like a mini ranch and everyone grows food in heir yard and has a job in town like an actual community. It feels like there's actually a reason for them to be there. But oh man, the strip, what do they e- WOAH, MEGAFARM! Attention to detail is what makes a world feel whole. Do you think Tolkein just wrote a story and created the world as he went? Nope. The man created different races with their own reasons to be places, he created languages and then CREATED DIALECTS FOR THEM. He spent a long time crafting the world before he made a story.
@2Fiddle4U
6 жыл бұрын
You're thinking with Shandification, aren't you?
@Ashtarte3D
10 жыл бұрын
I actually do know how Bethesda does their open world games, and I love them all the more for it. It's also why I would argue their approach is better than the module based style of MMOs. Bethesda will have writers script out the main story and some important parts they want to get out, and begin plotting out the path through the wilderness at concept phase, while other teams are given free reign to start populating the cities with quests they want to make. One group will start working on stuff you know will be in all TES games for example, like the Daedric Artifact quests, while another will start populating quests into a given city, often having it go somewhere else. To me this approach makes the game more immersive, as module based gameplay tends to feel TOO centralized, and unrealistic. It also lends itself to encouraging exploration as you will sometimes go wondering off and find pieces of a quest before you have even started it. (This was done exceptionally well in Divinity: Original Sin) The lack of exploration is a plus for some people, but a major negative to me, and what I hated about most MMOs. You had clear objectives in central hubs, and would only go where directed. Something that GW2 did an outstanding job to remedy with secret areas, the 'jumping puzzles,' and loot stashes.
@TheRealJirue
10 жыл бұрын
If you're looking for a interesting take that combines open world, themed areas, and special stories for that area I recommend looking at the newest patch for Firefall that's leading into their release. Ever since they replaced Mark Kern, the new management has been making leaps and bounds. They managed to product more content in the last half a year then the last three years combined. I highly recommend giving it a look!
@Pichuscute
7 жыл бұрын
And Zelda BotW has added a whole lot of new stuff to this equation.
@epicpolyphony
9 жыл бұрын
As someone who is a bit of a self-professed aficionado of open-world RPGs, I actually much MUCH prefer the first mentality you talked about. A game doesn't feel like a true open-world if you constantly have to worry about "zones" or "realms", but more of a series of mini open-world games. Each part, just by it's very nature of being it's own mini universe, becomes slightly disjointed from the rest of the game universe. While I see your points when it comes to games like the elder scrolls series, they still feel far more open-world to me than something like baldur's gate or WoW, and thus I prefer them, even if they do suffer from potentially weaker regional identity or character development.
@Gilpow
6 жыл бұрын
epicpolyphony As a die-hard Morrowind fan, I agree. Not implying that I don't enjoy the other type of open world rpgs.
@jimmyc.491
7 жыл бұрын
I never get tired of saying this... Breath of the Wild!!! Seriously, though, that game does an amazing job combining a main story, side stories, and exploration, as well as a few sandbox-style techniques.
@dr6559
6 жыл бұрын
James Cain What main plot? There barely was one.
@itazurazukina
7 жыл бұрын
How about using actual geography as a reference point? If I was to make a continent sized map, with all the cultural and societal flavors seasoned in, it'd make sense to have "modules" transition, and not just biomes either. Towns close to one another should have influence between the two, like a mining town is near or is part of a commerce town, and the surrounding towns are either rich or poor because of the town's boon/oppression over them. Quests can reflect this radius of influence as well.
@tobyhunt2127
7 жыл бұрын
Awesome point! Though such aspirations can be difficult to bring to fruition, doing so is highly fulfilling.
@enkiimuto1041
7 жыл бұрын
Assassins creed 4 partly did that.
@maggieedna
10 жыл бұрын
no one ever asks me why I like the might and magic 6, 7, & 8 trilogy so much, but if they did, one of the things I would tell them is that they take a super limited set of graphical tools and use them to create dozens of really distinct areas each with its own feel and story-lines and identity.
@ryanh1750
7 жыл бұрын
When I saw BOTW I immediately thought of this video
@NotASpyReally
7 жыл бұрын
I always thought that the difference between "open world" and "sandbox" was that, in a sandbox game, you can create stuff. Like for example Minecraft or Rust.
@caramida9
10 жыл бұрын
I feel like open world games are games that allows you to create own adventure without any instructions from the game itself... the zombie apocalypse ones like DayZ , or project Zomboid, or more recently the Forest, those really give me the open world feel...
@CrizzyEyes
10 жыл бұрын
Those games are actually true sandboxes; they just have more agency than games like GTA, because the story itself is emergent and something you create/toy with, unlike GTA which just gives you mechanical toys throughout the world to play with. A game like Dwarf Fortress is a sandbox in almost every sense, allowing you to toy with how civilizations progress through your generated world, and of course with the lives of individual dwarves.
@TheAsvarduilProject
10 жыл бұрын
I think *Terraria* is a perfect open-world game. While there are things you need to do to 'progress' (build housing for your NPCs, create your first weapons and armor, defeat the Wall of Flesh to unlock Hard Mode), the game dosen't really enforce that you do anything; you can just build housing and explore until you the end of your natural life, if you so choose.
@falconJB
10 жыл бұрын
TheAsvarduilProject You should check out Salem: the Crafting MMO. You are dropped off in a fantasy unoccupied area of early colonial New England and told to go out, build and survive. The economy and politics are run by players and other than the starting town every piece of civilization you find is player built.
@andyizawsome
10 жыл бұрын
TheAsvarduilProject As much as I love Terraria, I wouldn't really consider it open world. Yes, you can do whatever you want, but that just makes it non-linear.
@woopi8003
10 жыл бұрын
Mount & Blade has that feeling too. It feels like it has a story, but it doesn't.
@viktormon
10 жыл бұрын
I look forward to seeing how Bioware handles the semi-open world in DAI, they definitely seems to be taking notes from the modular way of thinking. Great choice for the ending song, btw. One of my fav remixes.
@brennanbauer5533
7 жыл бұрын
Man, if only this was made recently. Breath of the Wild is a different beast. It should be what all other open world games aspire to be.
@whistlegrasss
10 жыл бұрын
It feels better to me when players have a hub overworld to go back to between quests. It's also great when levels conect together, so a game like Banjo-Tooie seems perfect, mostly using an overworld to move between levels, but with some puzzle connections between levels, especially involving the train stations.
@Genrevideos
10 жыл бұрын
Another thing you didn't mention is that if you plan on making a good open world game, you want to add things to find that are worth finding regardless of whether they are central to the main plot or not. In fact it is required to have things worth finding that are completely outside the main plot because it allows the player the opportunity to strengthen their character if they feel they are not ready to complete the main story.
@heterodoxagnostic8070
7 жыл бұрын
its breath of the wwild
@adamhongmy
7 жыл бұрын
Introducing... Breath of the wild..
@Kurzes_Spiel
5 жыл бұрын
What if you created a game based around a huge "overworld" that was not built module-wise then an expansive "underworld" that is module-built. Players can enter this underworld by finding entrances in the overworld, thus combining the two together.
@chaselewis733
7 жыл бұрын
Lol that end is just explaining Zelda: Breath of the Wild
@KeshmarOrange
10 жыл бұрын
Ways you can have fun at a random Troll camp: #1: Throw rocks so you can mess with them, either getting them to gather around the noise to see if it's anything they can kill or provoking them to attack each other("Hey you hit me!" "Dem 's fight'n words!") #2: Burgle their huts & caves. #3: Be a much higher level, kill all of the adult Trolls to leave the young Trolls to fend for themselves. Alternatively, kill all the children while the adult Trolls futilly poke at you while weeping. #4: Instead of #1-3, waltz in unthreateningly and have a drink with 'em. They're probably not so bad when you're not grinding them for exp. At least those would be possible in my dream MMO. *shrug*
@Nova-op1ob
7 жыл бұрын
Zelda Breath Of The Wild?
@domachondri
7 жыл бұрын
Really shows how BOTW can be a groundbreaking open world game. It's Zelda, the developers have been in the game, and Nintendo never goes into something without trying to evolve it in some way
@airelleavils8394
7 жыл бұрын
True though I wish they would stop trying to evolve the Paper Mario series.
@lucideandre
6 жыл бұрын
There’s one game I’ve played which uses the patch method quite well. Mostly because it managed to just draw from its source material well. It’s the MMO Star Wars the Old Republic. The stories are generally contained in each planet. So it just used the fact that it’s in space, and you fly your ship from one to the other to get to the missions on each planet. Star Trek Online did the same thing, but it further incorporated the flying through space as an important element of its own, with space combat and exploration, so the missions usually start in space, then go to the planet, and come back to space.
@nickyjudo6892
7 жыл бұрын
WoW?Pff.Runescape is danker and better xD.
@nickyjudo6892
7 жыл бұрын
Ofcourse not modern rs.
@icewolf8190
7 жыл бұрын
l1ght-3 runescape?pff, Ultima is better
@nickyjudo6892
7 жыл бұрын
Ultima?pff,dungeons adn dragons is better.
@icewolf8190
7 жыл бұрын
l1ght-3 Dungeons and Dragons?Pff.Make believe is danker and better YD.
@kevinsullivan3448
6 жыл бұрын
You noobs, Zork on IRC...
@AlexKolakowski
10 жыл бұрын
Hey James, I think that something like 70% of the quests should fall within their own thematic "module" while the other 30% of quests cross over into 2 or more modules to maintain the sense that the world is actually connected intrinsically and not simply a bunch of clearly defined modules placed next to each other.
@TheDuckClock
7 жыл бұрын
5:30 to 5:45 Well Breath of the Wild proved him wrong, that's for sure.
@lilac9346
6 жыл бұрын
As someone who played a lot of Minecraft when I was young(er), my favorite type of game is open world and sandboxes. Probably one of the reasons I quickly became addicted to BotW. Not to say I don't enjoy linear games, but I don't find myself as emersed in it.
@SotiCoto
10 жыл бұрын
Unsurprisingly... this is the point where I utterly disagree. The whole module-based thing really isn't doing it right at all. The idea of having clearly defined areas with their own boundaries and all the quests (besides the main quest) contained explicitly within them feels horribly unnatural... and is not a desirable way to go about it. The edges HAVE to be blurred together for it to work well. There has to be a sense of the land transitioning between different environments and not just abruptly flipping a switch, or else the sense of immersion is completely lost. Similarly, there is no reason why quests shouldn't be more variable in their scatter and scope. Snowland quests, grassland quests and volcanoland quests always come across as hopelessly gimmicky... whereas the way Elder Scrolls games handle it, though not perfect, makes far more sense: Quests aren't going to be limited to a particular area, and some might require travelling, and they shouldn't be explicitly "themed" in groups. That just feels horribly wrong. Getting lost now and again, or accidentally wandering into a dangerous area, is just part of what makes the Elder Scrolls games great. It is what really gives one a sense of scope for the world that you can't get with a bunch of strictly defined module-regions. The take-home point here is.... if you want to make a good open-world game.... do NOT follow the advice of this video. Don't even start.
@Wildeye13
10 жыл бұрын
=Shrug= It worked just fine with Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, and Dragon's Dogma. GTA San Andrea's 3 cities, Los Santos, San Fierro and Las Venturas all had defined themes to them as well.
@SotiCoto
10 жыл бұрын
Wildeye13 Firstly... the Baldur's Gate games were fine in their own respect... but the major disappointment with them was the module-based nature of them. The fact that it felt like I wasn't even in the same game any more when I went from one area to the next. And Dragon's Dogma wasn't module-based... Not sure why you'd believe it was.
@Wildeye13
10 жыл бұрын
That's what I get for typing multiple things at one go. My bad, I only meant the 1st two Baldur's Gates. Still, I think a module-based open world can be good if done well and it's ultimately up to the player to decide if it's their thing or not. However, I would agree not recommending this style of game world to budding game developers because it's a style that a lot of skill and experience to pull off effectively and the bad ones do end up having all the problems you've pointed out in your original post out in the open for everyone to see and be very hard to ignore.
@SotiCoto
10 жыл бұрын
It just feels glaringly wrong because the world just isn't like that, and nothing about human experience is ever like that. No matter where you go, the nature of a place will bleed into its surroundings, and people will involve themselves with other people and places outside of their own immediate vicinity. No world consisting only of clearly edge-defined "themed" zones can ever feel natural because the act of grouping things conveniently together into little compartments is a very artificial thing to do.
@henrymarcello6495
10 жыл бұрын
SotiCoto You make a great point here. I was going to "knee-jerkingly" disagree with you at first because BG1 and 2 are the sort of games I replay now and again to remind myself what a good story in an RPG feels like, but when I think about it in the terms you put here, specifically "nothing about human experience is ever like that" I can't help but agree. You see in Shadows of Amn and Throne of Baal an increased attempt to remedy that problem by putting in lines here and there to connect the adventure to your previous decisions in game and make it all blend together as a more human experience, but I think that becomes more of a development issue as the cost goes up with labyrinthine dialogue trees and scenes. On the other hand the first design philosophy of "sprinkling" can run into the same problems, if not as obviously, when we only get token acknowledgements(if that) of our previous actions in the mash of quests and towns all over the open world. All in all I think the problem you bring up here is actually less about module design and more adding a slew of side stories without making your world feel unconnected, unnatural, and exhausting. Sort of a nutshell of open world design entirely- anyhow thanks for bringing it up. 'Gave me food for thought.
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