In re: your comment on the dotted quarters on beat 2. This was not a violation of notation at the time. In fact both Beethoven and Brahms publications would use dotted notes on the 4th beat of the measure, with the dot sounding after the barline. This is only a violation of late 20th century rules, but not of 19th century rules.
@eduardomanrique400
3 жыл бұрын
Right, also the alternative feels like hand holding to me.
@robscotland1980
2 жыл бұрын
the dotted crotchet feels like a calculated move on the composer's part so the player will push through the noted into the next part of the phrase.
@alexandergoodhart398
2 жыл бұрын
That’s cuz that’s what he wanted, but the implication that the rhythmic notation was purposefully meant to illuminate that gesture isn’t true- this rhythm isn’t uncommon to the 19th century
@JJBerthume
8 жыл бұрын
Simply fantastic as always! I got so excited when I saw this in my subscription box this morning; this movement is one of my very favorites in all the symphonic repertoire. I'm writing a piece for string ensemble in the fall, so perfect timing to learn from master Mahler and maestro Goss!
@tartarus1322
6 жыл бұрын
JJay Berthume hi jjay!
@Hexachords
8 жыл бұрын
One of the most powerful symphony ever written for sure. More powerful then the most known 6th symphony IMO. Very interesting video ... and amazing choice of score !
@yogatonga7529
4 жыл бұрын
I think first and second are best known and thr first is overrated, while the sixth is the best.
@jacobbass6437
4 жыл бұрын
3rd and 6th
@jacobbass6437
3 жыл бұрын
Okay. Unpopular opinion. The 5th is way overrated. Like it’s nice, but it’s just mediocre compared to all the rest. Except for the fourth. We just pretend the fourth doesn’t exist.
@DynastieArtistique
3 жыл бұрын
@@jacobbass6437 The fourth and the Ninth are my favorite
@jacobbass6437
3 жыл бұрын
@@DynastieArtistique. The fourth?!?!? Also, hi again. The ninth I get, it’s a good one. But the fourth????? It’s just not Mahler to me. It’s missing all the good parts of Mahlers composing.
@MrInterestingthings
7 жыл бұрын
WOW!!! ONE writes notes but if I don't really know ranges and the individuality of the instruments I write for I'm not creating music and noone else is going to reorchestrate or guess what I want . I write tons of music then come here and get humbled ! Thankyou Maestro Goss once again from one of the eternal students who wants to be a genius . Funny and oh so typical with novices !
@PLTConductorComposer
8 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see one of these on a typical Mahlerian movement (Big Brass, Wind and Percussion), though of course one doesn't have all the time in the world! Great analysis!
@uriahocean6968
4 жыл бұрын
One of the most beautiful instrument pairings I have ever heard is the DB and timpani.
@composerdoh
3 жыл бұрын
Love your videos. So helpful. One point though: it seems easier to be an "ingenious" orchestrator when you have literally the world's best musicians playing your stuff, esp. when they've been perfecting their interpretations and fawning over your scores for over a century. In some points in your analysis when you're saying things like "notice how the cellos seamlessly take over this pedal tone" I couldn't help but think of some of the amateur and student orchestras I've worked and played with over the years who would have totally not done that transition seamlessly at all. and I think: "yeah... I can think of some people who would totally fuck that up." It makes one wonder at what point masterful orchestration is at play and at what point masterful interpretation/performance takes over. You've said before that a midi playback can make a terribly scored section sound great and a fantastic one sound terrible- seems to me the same could be said, to a CERTAIN extent, of a masterful orchestra vs a second rate one.
@carlosschvartzman8374
Жыл бұрын
A fine professional written harmonization will probably sound great, notwithstanding the medium. However, an untasteful, mediocre, poor harmonization will sound EVEN WORSE played by a first- rate symphony orchestra or ensemble. This is because every error will be played perfectly.
@renatoalmeida7616
5 жыл бұрын
Great...I would like to watch something about the Bruckner's Eight Finale or Bruckner's 5 Finale
@sashakindel3600
8 жыл бұрын
With Mahler, I trust that there's a reason every detail of the orchestration is the way it is, but sometimes the reason is difficult to fathom. Rehearsal 4 in this movement, shown at 7:46, is a little like that; so many distinct, yet hardly distinguishable events on that unison-octave C. Perhaps all he wanted was to avoid stagnation, and found this arrangement the most elegant way to provide some kind of activity on almost every beat. A more completely baffling example is in the finale of the 9th symphony, at the change back to five flats after the first change away from that key signature, where he marks the first violins "molto espress.", with unslurred, accented 16ths, while the violas, in unison with them, have slurred, unaccented 16ths and "nicht espress" (not expressive). What effect could he possibly be trying to achieve there?
@eduardomanrique400
3 жыл бұрын
He probably wanted the violins to feel the dramarama of playing the open G string and that sound to be more dominant but also give some support with the darker viola sound. Strange indeed.
@martinwest2538
2 жыл бұрын
My take on the title would be similar to an "arietta" or a little aria. This, in turn, is a "little adagio" referring not to the actual tempo but to the piece itself.
@MrInterestingthings
8 жыл бұрын
Wow . So there's more than harmony and melodic interest here. Mahler knew instrumentation and mixture first-hand and that ultimately gives us a sound you don't get when you just go from piano to other instruments without real knowledge . Humbling in the least to many of us so called composers . Again , thank you Mr.Goss for your time .
@credenza1
8 жыл бұрын
Such a pleasure to read the score with understanding as the music plays.
@antoinebosch5676
6 жыл бұрын
I love your use of Bernstein recordings and I think your explanation is very insightful
@charlesdavis7087
7 жыл бұрын
You're teaching methods are wonderful. Thank you Thomas... and all involved. CVD
@conradthe2
8 жыл бұрын
Literally the greatest composer of all time. Thanks for the lesson!
@shnimmuc
6 жыл бұрын
Nonsense
@Metralon
8 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir, and very well presented. Can't wait to see more video's on your channel.
@BrentLeVasseur
2 жыл бұрын
Mahler as you say was a “Master Conductor Composer”…as was Bernstein who was conducting the clip. It’s interesting that ‘Master Composers’ like Mozart or Wagner who also conducted their own works are not thought of as Master Conductor Composers, but just Master Composers. lol
@joshuanesbit
7 жыл бұрын
fantastic - Thomas you're an inspiration. Thank you
@OrchestrationOnline
7 жыл бұрын
Cheers, Josh! :)
@jpstenino
7 жыл бұрын
RE Mr Kaplan as a conductor, written by a musician who performed under the baton of Kaplan (as found in Wikipedia) David Finlayson, a trombonist of the New York Philharmonic who performed at this concert, offered a different (this) perspective:
@composermike6469
8 жыл бұрын
This channel is exactly what I've been looking for! Very excited to explore all the videos!
@DavidPlateGuitar
7 жыл бұрын
Discovered your channel today, I love it!
@RomanIDrozd
6 жыл бұрын
Awesome analysis. Mahler is a genius.
@sayantandutta7284
8 жыл бұрын
Coming from a non-western background, I'm facing some problems in the course of following the deep technicalities of classical music. The videos of this channel helped me a lot (and still helping) to dig in deeper. I want a recommendation from you, sir. If you can suggest any book which will be worth following in order to grasp the nuts and boalts of music. I can read score (rather follow them when music is playing, in Tovey's words) , and now reading Tovey's books. I also came across with the book of OUP, The complete musician, an integrated approach to tonal theory. If you suggest anything, that would be a blessing for me... And obviously thanks for this video.
@jamesbunch8932
6 жыл бұрын
Sayantan Dutta if you currently live in India, come to KM College of Music and Technology. I teach there. We have a comprehensive course that builds theory, orchestration, composition, ear training, counterpoint, form, analysis, etc. If you are in a place in life where you can do college, it's available here (in sunny Chennai... 😎)
@MrInterestingthings
7 жыл бұрын
i'LL NEVER FORGET my 1st piano teacherordering TOVEY edition of BEETHOVEN SONATAS MR.DUTTA GLAD PEOPLE STILLKNOW HIS SIS SIGNIFICANCE. I THINK ITS TIME for me to use portamenti in a totally contemporary way . ive heard crazy glissandi in ravel and pintscher and others. oh god the adagietto just started . Im almost tearing.My heart fell . i listen to so much contemporary music i had forgotten how emotional , poignant communicative this music is . now my stomach has fallen into itself. is this pain or just expressiveness . This man found a truly lyrical melody it is never maudlin .Makes me long for Korngold ,Pfitzer et. al . WOW!!!
@amouda1
Жыл бұрын
i can't believe you recorded and published this 6 years ago and now with the new movie TAR, they're exactly discussing this during the opening scene when the composer expresses why this movement should be approached through the perspective of its inception, a love letter instead of redefining it as a eulogy. i would recommend you watch TAR if you haven't yet.
@javierbiaggi3072
3 жыл бұрын
Great analysis! Mahler's is water. Those cords on tension always reminds me of water because their fluidity. Is one of the very favorites composers of mine so I was glad you used the Adagietto as an example because the last time I saw the score was 50 years ago! Thanks for the memories.
@solveigcomposer
10 ай бұрын
Wonderful! big thanks!
@franzlisztish
7 жыл бұрын
EXCELLENT! Thanks very much!
@jacobinternet8877
5 жыл бұрын
The part at 13:00 reminds me of I have a love from west side story. The part where she sings "I love him".
@CloudyMcCloud00
Жыл бұрын
Check out the incredible final few minutes of the Adagio of Bruckner's 6th symphony (in the same key) -- to see, and hear, where Mahler got the idea for this movement.
@FREIMUZIC
7 жыл бұрын
This is fantastic! Thanks so much!!
@KevinToine
8 жыл бұрын
Would love to see you analyse 'ich bin der welt abhanden gekommen'
@IanPartridge
8 жыл бұрын
Important to recognise the ambiguity of the opening. With just two notes, C and A, what key are we in? A minor? F major? More ambiguity in bar 2. He could easily have made the upper viola crotchet A a Bb instead, a dominant 7th (perhaps with an added pizzicato C in the double basses to make the V-I cadence clear). But no, it's much more subtle than that, and the harmony evolves seamlessly from the C and A of the opening into the F major of bar 3 (the first violin suspension makes this even more beautiful).
@nightclubmcgee8979
6 жыл бұрын
Damn good lesson, well done.
@danielhughes441
Жыл бұрын
The title can also be translated as “A little Adagio” as in the length of the work. It is by FAR the shortest moment in the symphony.
@SimosSimeonidis1
8 жыл бұрын
Wonderful! Thank you
@IanPartridge
8 жыл бұрын
Crucial to understand the German he uses. "veil Bogen wechseln" = "many bow changes". "Griffbrett" = "fingerboard". "breiter Strich" = "broader stroke".
@bpe-music
8 жыл бұрын
It's actually the 4th movement ;-) Would have loved to see what analysis you'd have for the climax and the end section.
@TheCoastermann
8 жыл бұрын
Mahler marks the 1st and 2nd as being one movement in parts 1 and 2. Which would place the 3 movement as the second and the 4th as the third. I think the publishers were confused themselves. The score marks at as the 3rd movement but subtitles it '4 Adagietto'.
@matias3554
6 жыл бұрын
Great channel and amazing video! That is some good quality analysis right there!
@Mariette-Mia
5 жыл бұрын
Dear mr Goss! Im so happy that I can recieve so excelent lessons by your channel! You doing it in perfect way. Can I send you some my orchestration attempts? I need help...
@carminebittermann
8 жыл бұрын
great stuff! thanks
@crimeancomposer
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the information about your new project
@paulmouradian8968
6 жыл бұрын
this is great. I enjoyed watching and appreciate the detail. How many of these do you plan on doing. I really like the extent of the detail. Paul
@ncorva
8 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!
@jpstenino
7 жыл бұрын
Mr. Finlayson continues... I have to take extreme exception to the many reviews I have read of his performances. Some critics have written that he brings the finest details of the work to the surface. If his past performances were anything like ours, Mr. Kaplan excels in ignoring the blizzard of Mahler's performance direction. Much has been written about Mr. Kaplan's passion for Mahler's great symphony as if this emotion is unique to him. This assertion is an insult to all professional musicians who have dedicated their entire lives and have sacrificed much toward the preservation of all the great works of history's finest composers. His continued appearances are also an affront to all “real” conductors who have toiled relentlessly for the recognition they duly deserve.
@oscarmike1131
8 жыл бұрын
thank you so much for this
@lv1023
6 жыл бұрын
Where have you been? this is what I have been waiting for! Thank you!
@OumiKapilaMusic
7 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@jacklefatalis7663
2 жыл бұрын
Great. But sorry at 6 : 18 the lovely dissonnace is D over C#. Bb over C# is really common,
@69angelico
6 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for those superb video series. I'm looking for a full score of Mahler's 5th Symphony, a large print, so far all editions I've been able to find are great but very small and I'm looking for a larger format. Thanks again!
@udomatthiasdrums5322
Жыл бұрын
love your work!
@davidmills1152
Жыл бұрын
My question is did Mahler intend for ornaments in the line to be played as string players would throw them off or as vocalists would, you know, musically?
@Lopfff
2 жыл бұрын
YES!!! Thank you!!!
@fedevd
3 жыл бұрын
Best channel ever!!!!!!!!!!
@enrique203909
6 жыл бұрын
thanks for the value!
@IanPartridge
8 жыл бұрын
6:18 the dissonance is D over C#.
@OrchestrationOnline
8 жыл бұрын
+Ian Partridge Actually Bb major 6/4 chord over C# but there wasn't room to write all that in that tiny space.
@IanPartridge
8 жыл бұрын
+OrchestrationOnline Oh you meant a Bb major chord - I was talking about the two notes that clash. Not sure about saying the violins are playing Bb major...
@OrchestrationOnline
8 жыл бұрын
+Ian Partridge The gesture of Bb-D-Bb forms the harmony of a Bb 3rd over a viola pedal F. Bb 6/4 chord.
@cyklistenerve4819
Ай бұрын
I do agree… the Dissonance is made by the D. Otherwise it’s a « classical » chord of augmented fourth and minor seven. This D is a remembrance of the G7 we just left one second before. Sorry for my english im french 😂
@LanzaroteShowcase
3 ай бұрын
Lovely
@mauriceamaraggi8098
8 жыл бұрын
Excellent, thank you. Not too easy to follow for non English viewers but nevertheless excellent.
@Ari_M47
4 жыл бұрын
@10:20 , I'm not so sure if the players can follow the slur marks exactly as written or they'd run the risk of running out of bow at such slow tempo
@djrbfmbfm-woa
8 жыл бұрын
thank you thomas. j.
@fatearrahcalloway473
8 жыл бұрын
Could you do some orchestration lessons on Ravel Daphnis et Chloe.
@jeremiahsalyer7784
5 жыл бұрын
F minor 6/3. F A flat C D but it shows A natural in the bass. Isn't it an F 6 chord then?
@Wosudhehqaxb9169
4 жыл бұрын
9:27, never heard that instrument before XD
@EdoLS_
3 жыл бұрын
Its usually played between movements though
@FueganTV
5 жыл бұрын
4:28 I really didn't get this. Why would I notate that with a quarter note tied to an eighth note even though there is no syncopation? And what's more, Mahler's way of notating this particular moment doesn't seem eccentric to me, since there is a cesura and the bar contains the end of one phrase and the upbeat beginning of another phrase. I would like some further explanation.
@OrchestrationOnline
5 жыл бұрын
Concert musicians like to know where the third beat of a bar of 4/4 time is, even if that means adding a lot of what looks like unnecessary ties. That is ESPECIALLY useful because usually the conductor is going to indicate the third beat, and the players will avoid getting lost if they can both see and feel where that middle-of-the-bar sits. However, as I explain above, since the conductor is NOT going to indicate that beat, but instead give a preparation to indicate a VERY slow dotted rhythm, the problem is solved. But only for this piece and those just like it.
@mikey100ist
6 жыл бұрын
Does anyone know what the paitning at the start is called?
@OrchestrationOnline
6 жыл бұрын
"The Kiss" by Gustav Klimt.
@josealejandroguzman7146
6 жыл бұрын
The kiss by Klimt
@sebastianzaczek
6 жыл бұрын
Yet an other Gustav
@musik350
6 жыл бұрын
You don't need overly amounts of studying, you just need to want to make the piece as good and beautiful as possible.
@Ritermann
7 жыл бұрын
Please tell me what is the song that plays in the intro?
@paulybarr
7 жыл бұрын
It is the slow movement ( Adagietto) of Mahler's 5th symphony
@Ritermann
7 жыл бұрын
Paul Barrett Thank you! :)
@arev2485
5 жыл бұрын
Ddo the first movement!
@edoardobordon4939
6 жыл бұрын
Fantastic... how can I have the score?
@jamesbunch8932
6 жыл бұрын
Edoardo Bordon Imslp. It's the 3rd movement of his 5th Symphony
@ashleythorpe7933
5 жыл бұрын
4th movement
@SRV2013
8 жыл бұрын
My orchestration teacher told me the the Adagietto was written after one of my Mahler's children died. Is this incorrect?
@OrchestrationOnline
8 жыл бұрын
+Mark Burgh No, that's the Kindertotenlieder, which were written before his daughter died, and then seemed like a eulogy in retrospect. The Adagietto couldn't have been a eulogy, because he wrote it as a marriage proposal to his future wife, and they didn't have any children yet.
@SRV2013
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks for clearing that up. I've learned a lot from your videos as well. Thanks for putting them up.
@scriabinismydog2439
5 жыл бұрын
If I'm not wrong Berg's Violin Concerto was in memory of one of Alma Mahler's son, right?
@itznoxy7193
8 жыл бұрын
What do the little apostrophes around 4:50 mean? Thanks.
@qq-sq6qz
7 жыл бұрын
Its a breath mark, I don't play any string instruments, but in woodwind you take a literal breath of air, so I assume on a string instrument (like the violin), you just take the bow off for a brief moment.
@RolandHutchinson
6 жыл бұрын
On a string instrument you don't necessarily take the bow off the string, but you do leave a small silence (generally, just as generally when breathing on a wind instrument, getting time for the silence by not holding out the previous note for quite its full value). If you watch the bows of the first violins in the lower right-hand corner of the screen as they play this, you will see that the bow stops moving for just an instant where the comma is, rather than making a completely smooth and continuous change of bow direction. That's where the tiny silence comes in (and it is very small in this performance, as well as also less noticable because -- quite naturally and appropriately -- they do a bit of an unmarked decrescendo at the end of the previous note, to taper off into the silence).
@DanGulinobass
5 жыл бұрын
Shostakovich learned a lot from Mahler
@AustrianSynthesizerSchool
5 ай бұрын
Did you try an orchestration on the fly: kzitem.info/news/bejne/ym6urYOZsZmZY4o
@jpstenino
7 жыл бұрын
Mr David Finlayson says.....Having not previously heard either of Mr. Kaplan's two recordings of the symphony, nor having seen him conduct, I came to our rehearsals with an open mind. My initial impression was that Mr. Kaplan displays an arrogance and self-delusion that is off-putting. As a conductor, he can best be described as a very poor beater of time who far too often is unable to keep the ensemble together and allows most tempo transitions to fall where they may. His direction lacks few indications of dynamic control or balance and there is absolutely no attempt to give phrases any requisite shape. In rehearsal, he admitted to our orchestra that he is not capable of keeping a steady tempo and that he would have to depend on us for any stability in that department. Considering his Everest-sized ego, this admission must have caused him great consternation upon reflection. Mahler's wonderful use of the off stage brass in the fifth movement gave Kaplan much tribulation. One would think that after more than fifty performances of the work, even the most plebeian of conductors would have some understanding of how to bring together musicians that are separated by great distance. In the performance, these haunting moments of the symphony slipped away like some wayward musical slinky.
@RobinHillyard
2 жыл бұрын
It’s too bad that we don’t spell the name of this movement Adajetto to avoid the silly pronunciation of so many speakers.
@OrchestrationOnline
2 жыл бұрын
Ah, but then you'd get people pronouncing it "ah-dah-YET-oh." Or god help us "ah-dah-JET-oh." 😄
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