"If you're going to make Superman, also make Kryptonite." That's an important lesson that a lot of DM and players in these stories don't seem to want to learn. Well spoken!
@BlackMoonHowls
5 ай бұрын
Meh just don't have the DMPC do anything, not be "useless" but meaning not a bother as to not fk up things as that is why they had the adventures do what they do why would they do it themselves if they have a million other things to look after as a Guld Mascot and "Entertainment". I get the risks but come on you don't find Oil without mining for it nor undermining a company without them being in the way of your company first. If not broken don't fix, also don't break what is not needed to be broken. Ever see Midna do anything undue?! NO, and she's freaking Twilight Princess. I think people are missing the point they see risk and they think it can't be done. FATILIST, go feel bad for yourself and do better next time. Stop discouraging YOURSELF. There is no risk without reward unless it is Nutmeg. Don't do nutmeg to get fly. I think people refuse to even give it a try and "better safe than sorry" but make it like Happy (fking) Fun land in that one Fairly OddParents Movie about the Clown turned Corpo. Pad everything like some freaking padded cell for players that do not need straigh jackets. THAT is what discourages people from even giving the notion of having no DMPCs in the game in the first place. Assholes ruin everything, the same sheeple that consoom everything Hollywood is making. Which is crap BTW, "The Message" for "The Modern Audience" yeah fat arsed Reddit/Discord mods and whatnot that think it's deep because they are activists and do not understand writing. Why Hollywood makes crap, Activists in the chairs of writers that can actually do the job at hand and not make some half-baked political thing about and self-entries, or "why to do better" No. They need to do better, not us. I think people are missing what they need because it is being covered up and lied about.
@Kingnothing7x
5 ай бұрын
@@BlackMoonHowls what?!
@IronLordEXO
5 ай бұрын
I think a good use for a DMPC is to be a placeholder for combat in case a player has to leave mid session due to an emergency or you're just down a player but still have enough players to proceed with the session. That said, a DMPC should never be more than just filler or support imo
@genericname2747
5 ай бұрын
@@BlackMoonHowls Please for the love of god use paragraph breaks
@CritCrab
5 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@vinnykitty1983
5 ай бұрын
"That would be barbaric" - The Barbarian
@Pundae
5 ай бұрын
My first thought lmao
@vinnykitty1983
5 ай бұрын
@@Pundae lol
@OrtegaSauce
3 ай бұрын
My thoughts exactly
@wantedbird55srandomchannel28
2 ай бұрын
The irony is so good, it could make a sword only a true hero could pull from its brazen, smoldering forge.
@Femaiden
Ай бұрын
one coild make a barbarian use that as their catch phrase unironically as a compliment. Like saying something or someone is "barbaric" would be the highest praise in that character's POV
@paytonludwig1455
5 ай бұрын
As terrible as DMPCs can be in games, its hard to deny its entertaining reading stories about bad DMPCs
@doniehiatt6162
5 ай бұрын
True
@rossjohnstone4689
5 ай бұрын
Amen to that
@changingpeopleslivesmoon2993
5 ай бұрын
Fr
@KIRYU-CHAN-n1s
5 ай бұрын
I have a DMPC rooster, that all party made just for fun. When we rolled stats for this silly guy, we died from fact that the rooster is smartest and most charismatic in the party. He's level 2 warlock by now
@KIRYU-CHAN-n1s
5 ай бұрын
And yea, thats not a some kind of bird-like race warlock, that's literally a rooster-warlock
@ryguyplaysgames
5 ай бұрын
“Was it a mistake to save these villagers?” *Superman appears* “Apparently it was”
@opinionpaladin6007
5 ай бұрын
Snyderverse Pa Kent appears "Maybe you should have let those kids die"
@TheBonkleFox
4 ай бұрын
@@opinionpaladin6007 "You see, that village is 'over there.' and 'over there' has to take care of itself!"
@HighImNotBob
Ай бұрын
This is why opening up with you character alignment at the start is very important for me. You got this LG DM getting mad at a full CN party.
@benn454
Ай бұрын
@@HighImNotBob More like CE party
@brandonhammer825
5 ай бұрын
Had a dmnpc. She was a tabaxi with suspicious dark magic that healed the party when the healer was out. She also was mute and illiterate. Had a wealth of knowledge that the group had to interpret through charades. She was fun.
@LawfulBased
5 ай бұрын
Technically everything in the campgain is a DMNPC. From every minor creature to the very cosmos of the DM's campagain itself. Congratz on writing a nice DMNPC though. I bet she was a cute, helpful catgirl Waifu. 😉😁
@gradygillis274
5 ай бұрын
@@LawfulBasedew
@gradygillis274
5 ай бұрын
That definitely feels like taking advantage of someone who cannot say no
@mystickev194
5 ай бұрын
@@gradygillis274Wdym?? The dmnpc did that by themselves, its not like they can say yeah either 💀
@BadassHater1
5 ай бұрын
@@LawfulBased the difference is that DMPC is basically forced into the party because DM also wants to play his own game. But he's also DM so he ends up making his character stupidly OP in comparison to the rest of the party.
@joesmutz9287
5 ай бұрын
The first story feels like it's the back half of a murderhobo story I wouldn't be surprised if the DM was expecting this, and built the job so that every evil action just made the final boss fight more powerful I wouldn't be surprised if there was another story on the same forum that details the DMs "revenge on a bad party" story
@iluvyurbles
4 ай бұрын
something about this one seems off, like OP was leaving out some details, while also basically admitting that they were just picking the easy route on a game that expressed it was going to be about moral choices. however DM shouldn't have sent a god-like DMPC down, but maybe instead have the town boo and hate them and refuse to help the party that more evil they did.
@lucky6961
3 ай бұрын
@@iluvyurbles it doesn't seem like doing evil, if you lose in both choices there's no point. It should have been at least possible to do both even if it was way harder
@dadatheartist-pt4th
3 ай бұрын
This is why you reward good and punish evil For example use karma so that way your rolls become easier the more more you act and harder the eviler you become Or you can give the characters increased stats by let's say the town teaching them new methods we're giving them secret artifacts that they would never give otherwise
@belstone1370
3 ай бұрын
@@lucky6961 Agreed but OP doesn't really clarify if they tried that route. It would have to be a terribly inept DM that didn't put an alternative in and, instead, said, "take the morally corrupt path or you can't finish the game." It feels like OP isn't telling us the whole story about the moral choice system but rather making excuses for the party murderhobing simply because it's the easier option.
@lucky6961
3 ай бұрын
@@belstone1370 yeah. I guess the lack of creativity of the party was an issue and the DM is pretty much vilanized. But with the amount of insanity I heard about how some campaign's go this case doesn't seem so unreal
@conspiracypanda1200
5 ай бұрын
You should always have a vague plan for if your players decide they hate your DMPC. For instance: my first ever DMPC was the BBEG aged down by a powerful wizard. Since the players would eventually need to find that wizard, of course the tiny BBEG would want to tag along with the party to get his true power back. He was set up to act as a goody-two-shoes cleric if the party wanted him, _or_ a sneaky stalker that would set up favorable circumstances for them in the background if they decided to kick him to the curb for any reason. In their first ever combat with him on their team they threw him at the enemy goblins as a distraction and booked it to the goal. Another time they just straight up forgot about and abandoned him in a burning inn while they all woke each other and fled. It was great! And it made for an even funnier reveal and a _very_ indignant villain monologue later down the line.
@man3son1
5 ай бұрын
I could imagine a DMPC becoming a villain over the course of a campaign due to the party trying to rid themselves of them.
@Redd7206
4 ай бұрын
The anvil head guy from the shadow fandub
@TheBonkleFox
4 ай бұрын
Now I'm imagining a DMPC that the players ditch (prolly for good reason) only to become a Syndrome type villain later on.
@genericname8749
4 ай бұрын
@Redd7206 you mean the one that was a trying to get Shadow to be middle manager of hell?
@pizzademon1371
3 ай бұрын
were. were you playing dimple from mob psycho
@emilykemball960
5 ай бұрын
My first ever DnD one shot had a DMPC I honestly really liked. The plot was that we were mercenaries hired by a magic school to explore old dungeons and bring back magic items to study. The DMPC was a professor at the Academy who came with us to basically magic the plot along if we got stuck, but had a running gag where any time we got into combat she would nervously mumble that 'academy guidelines stop me from getting involved' and turn herself invisible. Shame they can't all be like that.
@MessiahofVatican
Ай бұрын
That is actually kind of funny and cute. I cqn just picture the professor shaking and muttering "can't get involved" before dissapearing.
@МихаилКолесников-ц9ь
5 ай бұрын
In my year in DnD, I have only encountered DMPC once so far, and I was incredibly lucky that the master approached it responsibly. It was a goblin named "Teeth". Initially, he was just a random goblin whom we freed from orc slavery. Since then, he has traveled with us, dreaming of one day becoming the goblin king and ending the orcish tyranny. And the master managed to very organically weave the “Teeth” arc into the main story. He never drew attention to him, he did not become a super-powerful destroyer of everything. He was simply a comik relief, who more often than not was even a burden in battle. And everyone loved it! Moreover, when Dm forgot about Teeth, someone always asked, “Hey, what is Teeth doing now?” It was a good campaign... P.S: I apologize if I wrote something unclear. I don't write English very well.
@fujinfromwarrobots1130
5 ай бұрын
what happened to teeth
@МихаилКолесников-ц9ь
5 ай бұрын
@@fujinfromwarrobots1130 Alas, we ended the campaign just as the development of the personal plot “Teeth” began. Dm wrote to us that he was tired and burned out from this game, and that if we don’t mind, he would like to start a new one. We were sad, but we supported him.
@fujinfromwarrobots1130
5 ай бұрын
@@МихаилКолесников-ц9ь damn
@darrienjones8917
5 ай бұрын
#WhereWasBalnor
@МихаилКолесников-ц9ь
5 ай бұрын
@@darrienjones8917 ?
@alexandredesouza3692
5 ай бұрын
I rarely have DMPCs, but when I do: - I let players control or guide them during combat. - I don't have them make decisions for the party. - I keep them as pre-generated characters for guests. - I mainly use them to supplement roles like tanks, damage or healers the party lacks - Or to keep knowledge/secrets for exposition. - Or better than all of that; they're mentors or rivals to the party that show up and disappear at a whim. (Like, Gandalf or Zuko)
@ProfiteerProphet
4 ай бұрын
I think this is the best way to go, you hit the nail on the head. Usually I go with DMPCs when I don't have a lot of players (I often play with only 2-3 people) and their party makeup is unbalanced. Like "hey, we are all playing squishy casters!". Maybe that is when you throw in a fighter. But there are many ways to narratively justify the DMPC not taking charge. Maybe they are just...kind of shy, or don't care as much. You know, not leader material. Or maybe they are somehow tied to a party member, their vassal, apprentice, childhood friend etc and are prone to deffer to the players for decisions.
@alexandredesouza3692
4 ай бұрын
@ProfiteerProphet Historically, my DMPCs have been too Brave, Dumb, Crazy, Shy or Untrustworthy to take a leadership role. The rivals sometimes appear as enemies, sometimes as temporary or redeemed allies. The mentors, nature guides or more experienced or leader-like DMPCs respect that the Party has a more personal reason to achieve victory than they do.
@Barlmoro
25 күн бұрын
My dmpc ist a wildfire haregon druide that leaves the group in Citys and can be found at the Stores that sells herbs and stuff or at the potion maker. He ist only a Support If Not enough Players are there and only give the Party Infos the allredy have or in cases the missed a big plotpoint, he suggest something in the direction so the can get the Info Like: i talk with the npc x and he had a great story. Cose my druide comes from the feywild he speaks not good common and gave very cryptic Infos so the player get the hint to ask a npc again.
@gyranix
5 ай бұрын
Honestly the best way to do DMPC is to just have an NPC join the party that goes along with whatever they do and just joins for combat seeing as the DM knows all the stuff I feel thats the best way to play with the party while also DMing (yes the NPC can have a personality and motivations but they wouldnt make suggestions or decisions that guide the party)
@professorseraph
5 ай бұрын
Exactly I agree and it's what I do, sometimes I do it to convey info that that NPC might have or it's from a players backstory so there is a reason these people would travel (for a very limited time) with the party.
@DukatNaranek
5 ай бұрын
This is how an old DM of mine did it. He called the character his PC, but ran it more as an NPC. And he would give up control to me as I hopped in and out of the game as my work schedule allowed (often, maybe once a month at best)
@lecoutcritique8854
5 ай бұрын
I diasgree with the "make no suggestions" but on the contrary suggestions should be plentiful, sometimes make sense, most time but flawed and always following their agenda (no need to only have 1 of them either). BUT it should never comes at the cost of PC roleplay => either NPC can rejuvenate the idea pool of the group, or be in contradiction with them, but a YES-man npc is the most boring thing one should want by his side (except in New Vegas) : it's the DM admitting straight that fudging the rolls, adjusting the values on the fly and creating the scene is still not enough to provide a decent yet possible challenge. NPC should rarely make decisions for the players, that I agree, although I can foresee some specific cases where it can be great : not because PCs are doing poorly (or great) but to turn a "good guy" into an antagonist (maybe he is "too good" or just obnoxious, they can always leave him and he might return to be a mild antagonist), or because they hired an "hot blooded orc" in front of a martial challenge (help him or let him be in it elbow deep? choice is theirs)
@SunWukongSonGoku
5 ай бұрын
I DM'd a short one-shot for the homies for their first D&D experience, and I put in what I called a DMPC, an NPC that tags-along with the party and tries to be helpful, and not what most people seem to complain about, which I call a DM/PC, a "DM-Player Character". 10 in all stats, gave him like, 20 ish health, and I think it was 2 uses a short rest of Shape Earth, and the cantrip Mold Earth, and just had him create cover for the party, and difficult terrain for the enemy, along with having a back-pack and generic adventuring gear, and the party was happy for having a pack-mule+ . Never had him speak during "cut-scenes" where the focus was on player decision; sometimes he'd give opinions if asked for one, but I never had him "feed the party answers". He was dumb as all heck, and was limited to having "useful common sense" in respect to (game mechanics), and would suggest actions making use of them to the party, so that *they* could further the scene and story, pass or fail. They had fun, and asked if instead of a One-Shot, I could make them one or two more "adventures" to go on - really it was more like a Guild-assigned Mission, but I digress. They got levels, and my DMPC would get 1 use of Shape Earth, and I think 1d8 hp increased. It easily got to the point where my players basically bullied a member into suggesting that my DMPC should, "find a way to leave the party - we don't want him to die..." I flipping loved that. I asked him to tell the other players all they need to do, is during the next session, have their characters tell him exactly that. After a bit of talking, my players agreed to ask my DMPC this: players: hey man, we're really happy you're always there for us, even when it risks your life.. but we don't want you to die, so how about this : you start working on making us a Guild Hall with Shape Earth? After this mission, we want to buy a plot of land and have you run it. Of course, we'll pay you; what do you say? Useful enough to help each of them "be a main character", but with 0 real power and a single attack (that was never used) : unarmed attack: to hit 1d20+str (0) / damage 1.
@rb98769
5 ай бұрын
@@lecoutcritique8854 Giving the NPC some sort of agenda and making it clear that the suggestions aren't you as the DM creating expectations on the players is probably the best way to handle it. The issue with suggestions is that a lot of groups with DMPCs end up falling into a trap of the DMPC being basically the DM's in-universe spokeperson and a soft railroading tool. As long as the DM is careful not to go for that, I'd say an opinionated DMPC can be an incredible addition to the game.
@totallyjerd1751
20 күн бұрын
As a DM, I deliberately made an overpowered DMPC. But I made sure the players recognised this, and I allowed for the characters to make choices that would allow them to separate themselves from the DMPC if they wished. The DMPC ended up taking on a father role to the group, where he wanted to be there to protect them, but knew that for them to grow he would have to let them face their own challenges. I also made sure to give him an interesting backstory that tied into the worldbuilding, which players could gradually uncover.
@nebulathenebulous
5 ай бұрын
Currently running my first campaign, and I went into it determined not to make a DMPC. Then my players took a goblin hostage that I had intended have betray them within the next one or two sessions--but then their choices made that betrayal very hard to play out mechanically, and everyone grew very attached to the goblin as his chances for betraying them slipped away. Now he's got his own character sheet and has become a cleric under the trickster domain so that they have a healer and their favorite pet goblin is less likely to die in combat, but I've been very careful to keep him a level lower than the PCs, and his input on story direction when asked is usually based on a dice roll. When the focus does wind up on him (since everyone loves him so much and want to help in his personal life whenever a hint is dropped), I play it so that the party is helping HIM make the right choices. It's been a lot of fun!
@rb98769
5 ай бұрын
That's honestly the best way to have a DMPC join the party.
@kevwox
5 ай бұрын
Reminds me of a tabletop version of a bg3 companion. Sounds well handled!
@mwhearn1
4 ай бұрын
Yep, DMPCs should always be underpowered and indecisive. The best is when the party wants to help the DMPC achieve his/her/its goal because the DMPC is to weak to do it. Warms the heart.
@flamekeeperanimations7194
5 ай бұрын
...so, I'm actually glad you brought up how there is a sense of pity for the DM. He definetly didn't seem to be well fitted to the Party, as it seemed he was really wanting them to make hard decisions on morality he didn't care for. Do I think he should've TPK'd them with an Overpowered PC? No, absolutely not, but I also think that the Players and DM should've had a conversation out of game rather than them holding resentment for his DMPC, or him making one in the first place to try and solve this problem. I see a lot of problems all around tbh. Also love your vids CritCrab!
@jonahbardwell551
5 ай бұрын
The only thing that I don't get is why was he running his game in a way that allowed, and even encouraged, morally dubious characters if he wanted morally upstanding paragons. Like he was giving them all these complex moral choices when he absolutely did not have to. If you don't want your players killing an innocent man, don't make the only way they can get a vital item be killing said man. Make them have to kill an evil man, or a dragon, or pass a series of puzzles and trials. But if you're campaign is about making hard choices, you have to kind of follow through on the choices otherwise what's the point
@_qwerty_3545
5 ай бұрын
@@jonahbardwell551I don’t think he wanted them to be moral righteous, I think he just wanted them to give a little more consideration. To care more about what they had to do. Imo the party are kinda assholes for understanding the dm wants them to make hard choices but then just choosing the selfish option all the time, refusing to play along with what the dm was giving them. Now should the dm have tpk’d them? Absolutely not, but I understand the sense of frustration that built up.
@thesuperjacobshow8151
5 ай бұрын
Thankfully my ttrpg system is designed to allow the author to play as an actor along with the other narrators, so everyone gets to play and everyone gets to shape the story.
@scorch2155
5 ай бұрын
@jonahbardwell551 With how apathetic the players sounded about the world, i wouldn't be surprised if the GM did have consequences, and the players just ignored them and didn't care
@MrMaradok
5 ай бұрын
@@scorch2155 I agree, the OP even said during the “save the city” choice that the players were only discussing purely mechanical reasons to stay and fight. It’s the same as making a dialogue choice in, say, Baldur’s Gate 3 or Mass Effect, not because that’s the kind of playthrough you’re doing, or what *you’d* do in that position, but simply because you want the shiny thing that has bigger damage numbers - that works fine in a single player game, but in this case, the DM probably felt like the world he made was being flat out ignored in favor of just pushing the game forward as quickly as possible EDIT: What the DM did was wrong, but the reasons behind it where at least understandable
@kinglod2312
5 ай бұрын
Superman: don’t you get that good warm feeling inside when you help people. Party: I don’t like to feel good I like to feel evil
@gradygillis274
5 ай бұрын
He should have added npcs to avenge the destroyed villages
@Pundae
5 ай бұрын
Or given them a reason to defend others. Like when they decided to stay I immediately thought "okay so all you have to do is build an attachment to the people you want them to help". Alternatively, have two plot hooks going at the same time that would both hinder the bad guy. For one of ours we had 4 cities that were protecting magic items the bbeg needed, and we basically had to create safeguards that would defend each even when we weren't there by cooperating with the guard
@nonope1715
5 ай бұрын
Would’ve been a better option for sure. The op mentions their stuff being at risk - make the choice more relevant to them seeing as how they don’t care about the morality choices the dm seems to be so invested in
@cameronbreeze4029
5 ай бұрын
Assuming the villages were being destroyed by the bbeg's forces you could also just say the bbeg advanced their own plans by destroying the village. Whether they found something of use their or undermined supply chains or morale or something really simple and obvious like raising the town as undead to bolster their forces.
@Mr_GoR_
5 ай бұрын
Honestly, it's a mismatch of expectations. A conversation is the best way to resolve this, whether it's through compromise and cooperation or through the decision to part ways. (Story 1)
@danielmbg
5 ай бұрын
The weird part to me is why would you add morally grey decisions if you want the players to take the heroic route?
@Temperans
5 ай бұрын
@@danielmbgI believe the GM might have been trying to go for a "will you pick short or long term gains. Going for the villagers sounds bad if your goal is to catch up to the bad guy, but going for it might be helpful later on. It also was probably the GMs attempt to slow down the party. But evil PCs will not help unless they have clear benefit.
@tempusincurvo364
5 ай бұрын
Personally as long as there is not major disharmony among my party, I am fine if they are heroic or villainous. I even have different final bosses planned depending on what side they take in the end.
@christianrivera1708
4 ай бұрын
@@danielmbg because the players ignored anything not related the final bad guy. They had to have their hands held to interact with the world. Then they complain about railroading, give the freedom of choice, and they ignore the lore/world for mechanical benefits, add in a character to try and convince them using role play, they hate him and try to kill him after repeated warnings.
@FerreTrip
5 ай бұрын
For that first one, I think I give that an "everyone sucks". The DM shouldn't have done all that, but the players sounded like borderline murderhobos. Communication completely broke down, and everyone suffered for it.
@Kiwipai
5 ай бұрын
No they weren't murderhobos at all according the the story. The DM kept putting them in a "be murder hobos or fail the quest" situations, it never sounded like they liked it or sought it out, which are core parts of being a murder hobo.
@Calebgoblin
5 ай бұрын
OP smacks of unreliable/bias narrator a little bit though @@Kiwipai
@beganfish
5 ай бұрын
@@Kiwipai It didn't seem to be "be murder hobos or fail the quest" it was "be incredibly selfish amoral assholes or let the villain gain ground this one time" and they chose the second option every time, just because they didn't give a shit. DM handled it horribly though, he should have just said he's not having fun and ended the campaign and found a better group.
@Kiwipai
5 ай бұрын
@@beganfish again, being apathetic to the GMs suggestion to kill generic NPCs they have no relationship with other than randomly generated names, or get punished for not doing so, doesn't make them murder hobos. A murder hobo WANTS to go around murdering NPCs, it should be obvious the difference is way more than pedantry. If you want to criticize the players you could say they decided to check out and never bothered to communicate that they're not interested in that kind of gameplay.
@beganfish
5 ай бұрын
@@Kiwipai I think that players not caring about the lives of innocent NPCs and being willing to kill them pretty squarely makes them murder hobos. Being a murder hobo doesn't have to be going out of your way to kill people, it can also be killing anyone who gets in your way no matter who they are, or killing people when there would be a benefit to you, again, no matter who they are. This group was clearly filled with murder hobos.
@Alegaisia101
5 ай бұрын
ngl, the first OP came off, to me, like a cross between an edge lord and a min maxxer - personal preference but if I'm at a table where the players openly admit they give 0 shits about what happens to the npcs around them I'm... just not gonna play with them
@-N0V4-
5 ай бұрын
Min maxxer sure, but I doubt edge Lord. Its clear that the entire party had the same approach as him- if the DM had a problem, they should have mentioned it instead of just trying to manoeuvre them into his own image
@OrtegaSauce
3 ай бұрын
To me it depends on the characters' alignments. If none of them were good or very lawful, then it makes sense. They're focused on the objective, and as the crab guy mentioned, they prolly believe ends justify the means. It doesn't seem like they fully took delight in it, or went out of their way to ignore those who needed help. Idk, just my 2 cents
@byrontheusurper6505
2 ай бұрын
Honestly, based
@eggmcmuffin6067
2 ай бұрын
I agree. I find it pretty hard to believe that if the players were rping as their characters, not *one* of them would question the choices they were making. Since they were taking a “greater good” approach surely they could at least debate about it versus making the selfish choice every time, considering they chose to protect a city at one point. While it’s up to the dm to make the pcs care about the world, it’s up to the players to rp as actual characters. Definitely an instance where both dm and players failed the game imo.
@informitas0117
Ай бұрын
OP was playing Monopoly.
@JamesFisherlsAniNJa
5 ай бұрын
man... that story took me back! To answer your question of why we didn't stop farming the phoenix is because it was honestly hilarious. The DM was trying his best to not to "smite" as we had a mutual agreement in our group that we wouldn't do that. We always held sessions starting in the evening after we got done with classes for the day (we were all in college) and the sessions ran well into the following early mornings. Both the Phoenix fight and the DM vs Samurai fight took place near the end of the sessions at between 1 AM to 4 AM. I personally don't recall a lot of the final session other than what the OP mentioned as I was fading in and out of sleep for about half the session anyways. Great video!! We all learned a lot that night about how to DM and I hope more DMs can learn from this video too!!
@fred_derf
5 ай бұрын
The problem in the first game was the DM and the players, at a fundamental level, where playing different games. The overpowered DMPC aside (it sounds like the DM added them out of frustration) neither side was in the wrong (or the right), they were just incompatible.
@ofal5124
5 ай бұрын
I don't think they were incompatible, because DM and the players don't have to agree on wether they are doing goody two-shoes run or a morally grey run with doing evil for "greater good" I'd say the biggest to blame is the DM for handling the players poorly. because if he wanted the players to think on their choices, he shoul've simply show them negative consequences of their actions. for example: if the players commited some evil deeds in a village in order to progress their goals, then suprise suprise, they are now treated with distrust or hostility in all nearby villages by all NPCs
@rb98769
5 ай бұрын
Exactly, but I think the DM ultimately handled the situation extremely poorly.
@docomega7862
5 ай бұрын
@@ofal5124yes, they do have to agree. The DM can try to show them the consequences of their actions to push them to a more virtuous path but he can't force them to take this path. The DM should control the game with the objective of letting the players have fun the way they want. That's why there should be some form of session 0 where the DM and players agree on their expectations for the game. That's at this point that it shoumd be decided whether the game will be morally grey, full good or full evil. If the DM and players don't agree, then they are not playing the same game, which will inevitably lead to frustrations on both sides. In this case, the players clearly didn't care to be morally good, were focused on their objectives and if anything liked having morally grey choices. While it was clear that the DM wanted to push them to be morally good. So they're not playing the same game as the DM is actively pushing the players to do things they don't want to ald the players push back. This leads the players to resist the DM's ideas and the DM to implement even more ideas to force the players to behave the way he wants. In the end the DM and players have to be on the same side to build a game that satisfies everyone
@christianrivera1708
4 ай бұрын
@@ofal5124 the players dont care about that though, thats the thing. The players are ignoring literally everything to just rush the story and get stronger and said multiple times, they dont care. I bet if the DM did your suggestion or took away what the characters loved most, (items and their home base) they wouldve added that to the story and you guys would be like "The DM is just mad that he cant railroad the players and handled that poorly by taking away what makes the game fun for them." Damned if you do, damned if you dont. But the DM did nothing wrong. He just made rocks fall with a character they were planning on killing anyway
@lucky6961
4 ай бұрын
I'd blame the dm, they weren't being bad in a situation where they could have been kind, they were put in situations where they had to commit evil deeds otherwise the bbeg would get away. In either situation they are at loss in short and long term
@Shades14
5 ай бұрын
Funny thing, my cat's name is Halo. Every time Crab says Halo, the first thing that comes to my mind is a large human-like version of my three-legged cat DM-ing. 😂
@Tabletopcloud20
5 ай бұрын
Three-legged? What happened to the little dude?
@Saguya20
4 ай бұрын
@@Tabletopcloud20probably amputated for medical reasons 😔
@ctnc6059
5 ай бұрын
In the first story, the DM calling DMPC "well designed" gives me a feeling they might not have listened, but they might have just thought the players were lashing out over their deaths because the DM didn't know how long the hatred had been brewing and how horrible an army of the character they hate sounded. Could be just yet another DMPC story or a situation of lack of communication kills. (pun not intended) Second story... I can't say anything other than rolling my eyes, facepalming, and laughing
@cjthemisfit
Ай бұрын
I had a dmpc once. He was a cowardly bard that followed the party around just to record their story to tell later on. He didn't fight, he didn't have a hand in any decision making, and every now and then he would give exposition. My players loved him. They said it made them feel like legends.
@justincampbell5987
5 ай бұрын
"THATS BARBARIC" says the barbarian
@Bia_Lu42
5 ай бұрын
Look, I'm not excusing the DMPC behaviour here but in a game where there's literally a spell called Zone of Truth that effectively makes it almost impossible to lie, the party was WAY too quick in resorting to torture
@Greil9
2 ай бұрын
Thing is that Zone of Truth isn't much use in that situation. It doesn't force someone to talk, just means they can't lie when they do speak. So if it's used, the one being interrogated can just say nothing.
@intrepid_tank1547
Ай бұрын
@@Greil9 You also don't have to tell the truth, you can simply say vague answers or "Why would I tell you?"
@INukedMyFish
5 ай бұрын
My DM has a PC, basically a peasant with a voice like mickey mouse that follows the party in the background and only exists in the scene when directly observed or asked a question. He gets used as a distraction a lot but mostly stays out of the way. I think any more DMPC involvement than that wouldn't be fun
@vyor8837
5 ай бұрын
Eh, using a DMPC to set up the plot works well too.
@themaskedtalker2171
12 күн бұрын
Literally just don't be the superman in this story... There's a LOT you could do, but don't overpower your character. In my eyes, in order to make a DMPC work right, you need to split yourself into two; the DM and the player. Limit your player character to the same rules as other players, no mary sue shit, and especially... DO NOT GUILT TRIP PLAYERS. And remember; if you wanted to showcase your characters, do not make a D&D or any TTRPG campaign; write a fanfiction instead ffs.
@rudasaeorien
Ай бұрын
2:50 This is literally the plot of Berserk
@marybdrake1472
5 ай бұрын
Back when I was playing 3.5 D&D my DM always had a a DMPC with us. He always handled them really well, it's also worth nothing that we were a group of three including the DM. So it was more needed in that case. It should never be used in a situation with a fully group though unless it only closes a gap in the party that's needed.
@randomweeb9179
5 ай бұрын
Yup, I've played in multiple campaigns with a dmpc. But that's because in those campaigns it was just me and one other player. Both of us were new to dnd and a little shy (more being me) so it helped a lot progressing through and in battles
@marybdrake1472
5 ай бұрын
@@randomweeb9179 In cases like yours they can work really well. That said, the DM/GM has to handle them well too. Which doesn't always happen sadly.
@anthonybird546
5 ай бұрын
DMNPCs are an interesting, later development to the very common use of hirelings in old school D&D games. DMNPCs are a result of ignoring many of the Charisma rules in D&D, AD&D, and 2e, creating a problem as a solution that was already resolved.
@marybdrake1472
5 ай бұрын
@@anthonybird546 Yes, and no. It depends on how they're handled. Like I said, my DM did the job really well. Unfortunately, many do not.
@anthonybird546
5 ай бұрын
@@marybdrake1472 there are definite differences in the way that power levels can be different, and I think the other key being that the DMPC's share of treasure, experience, goals, and attachments to the party are different. Old school hirelings also served up as back up PCs when the players' characters died, whereas DMPCs are only ever going to stay in the DM's control.
@thesuitablecommand
5 ай бұрын
I think the best way for a DM to run a DMP -type character is to have a small collection of returning npc's. They never stick around long enough to shape the course of the adventure, and theyre always secretly a few levels weaker than the rest of the party so as to not steal the spotlight by being "too strong." They're mostly there for utility and narrative devices. Thats my take though. Ive never tried to run a DMPC, except in the occasion where a party kidnapp- I mean, _adopted_ an npc during a one-shot.
@Clownin-round
5 ай бұрын
I had exactly one dmpc named Greg, a skeleton they gave sentience and he decided to follow them around They cheered Greg on whenever he did combat and they actually cried when he died
@anon0092
5 ай бұрын
Hearing about nightmare DMPCs makes me really grateful for how patient my (regular) players are. I've made a few DMPCs, and learned that the only ones that really work are the ones that act as support; not a moral compass, not an OP "mentor," but just a character to share the adventure with.
@Kiwipai
5 ай бұрын
DMPC: "the end doesn't justify the means!" *Repeat ad nauseam.* DMPC: "I'm sorry, party. The end justifies the means!"
@kingcyclops4079
5 ай бұрын
“Superman” should have had an arc where he himself is thrown into the moral dilemmas the party is shoved into. It’s to criticize the party when he’s not the one making the decisions. Makes me wish this DM was just a little more aware.
@Xhumed
5 ай бұрын
"See how *you* like it. You like how that feels?"
@Zetact_
5 ай бұрын
From the outside looking in it might be that the DM wanted to perhaps make a sandbox where the party could choose their morality and it might not be that the Superman character wasn't intended to be railroading them but perhaps attempting to give them a final boss for if they choose to play an evil campaign. He more or less says, "It's impossible to beat the BBEG without this plan that you're trying to throw out" so when they say, "Don't care," three times in a row, even after being directly told, "This character you have directly witnessed is extremely powerful, beyond what your party is currently capable of handling, will do what is necessary to get this," the reasonable assumption would be to pivot the campaign since it's made apparent they aren't interested in beating the established BBEG - at least, not as much as they're interested in antagonizing the Superman character. They talk about the guy lecturing and browbeating them but in the story the DM choosing to give them tough moral choices with very clear points of asking, "Are you sure?" and, "Actions do have consequences" multiple times yet letting them make the final decision and not immediately punishing them for it - seems like that was very likely the intent. A lot of people don't like to play evil campaigns so giving them a TON of leeway until they're locked into that path sounds like a good idea. They might have thought he was annoying and it's very much possible it was just the DM trying to force them to play a non-evil campaign but the level of agency the DM gave them, even in the story attempting to make it look like he was the bad guy, makes me think there was more going on.
@gabrote42
5 ай бұрын
If that's the case then it was very poorly communicated, or he tried to be too subtle for the kinda group he has
@sadboat1657
5 ай бұрын
A good DMPC should never be the main cool guy
@thecatinthehatwithabat9903
4 ай бұрын
Honestly that entire group jist needs a few lessons on how to communicate
@ConnorTheUndying
5 ай бұрын
Putting Jiren in the thumbnail makes me imagine this is just a really bad day for the Pride Troopers.
@diogod2347
5 ай бұрын
DM Jiren goes crazy with power during the Pride Tooper game night.
@wolfherojohnson2766
5 ай бұрын
He got replaced by Injustice Superman
@ConnorTheUndying
5 ай бұрын
@@diogod2347 He doesn't understand that he's not supposed to be the strongest this time, whoops.
@wolfherojohnson2766
5 ай бұрын
@@ConnorTheUndying Now Superman's been replaced by Jiren again. FP Jiren to be precise.
@eliascabbio7598
2 ай бұрын
On my first campaign ever in d&d, I was co-DMing with a friend of mine, so we had our own PCs at the table as part of the party, switching from DMs to players from time to time. This was fun, it was a good way to understand what d&d is, and I think that it can make the game more fun also for you as a the DM if you just accept that you're not the main character of this story, and that your PC may be a cool part of the story, but as a secondary character.
@Nameandaddresswithheld
5 ай бұрын
To me, the first story reads like a bunch of chaotic neutral murder hobos vs a dm trying to do something somewhat interesting. That being said, the dm did the wrong thing to counter it at every turn
@ArcCaravan
5 ай бұрын
Sounded more like a game that's supposed to be about hard choices just devolving into "be stupid or mean". The fact the party chose to defend a village they saw as a homebase throws a wrench in the murderhobo argument.
@MelkiorMonster
5 ай бұрын
I think the first story is a lesson where communication could have helped both parties a lot. Maybe even saved the game before it fell apart. Heavy suspicion that DM and Group were just incompatable to begin with, with what they expected out of the game on both parts and what kind of play style the players wanted to use. To me there absolutely should have been a "consequence comes from choosing these actions", but not in the way the DM handled it- almost sounded like a frustration attempt gone horribly wrong as them basically choosing "end goal only/only what directly affects us matters & screw the rest because it doesn't matter/only holds us back or slows us up anyway" attitudes COULD have been taken as a total diss to his world building possibly! Now that I write these thoughts I realize there's a lot of missing information as we only have a very one sided view... However that view openly admits how they didn't care about his towns, didn't care about the populations in them, didn't care about the "meaningless" NPCs... And Halo could have possibly put a lot of heart into all those things and that would have been a BIG bummer! Especially if those places and the world were build up and meant a lot ... Making him possibly push those ethical and moral questions because it meant a lot to HALO and wanting them to mean more to his players. Yeah Halo handled it wrong with the preachy NPC and everything that spiraled from it was bad... But I think that it all is just to show that communication is so very important between a DM and Party- what both sides want out of this, and how both sides are feeling with what's happening. That's just my take on it all for story one, at least.
@ShadowFred386
5 ай бұрын
When it’s come to DMPC’s for my campaign I’ve been in, most of the time it’s just been temporary allies that disappear after 2-3 combat encounters for the story we’re in. So I can’t say I’ve had bad experiences with them and think it’s actually pretty cool
@ambisweetiepie
5 ай бұрын
I've never played without dmpcs. Because all our games are just two players (me and my wife). I'm not going to just solve the puzzles for her, that'd be no fun for either of us. So my dmpcs are usually the less proactive members of the team. It's hard to make it work with just two players, but we both make two characters each, and I play all the npcs and we still have a good time! A lot of dmpc nightmare stories tend to sound like just bad dms to begin with.
@blazingphoenix5460
5 ай бұрын
For the first story I get where you're coming by saying that the DM should have just fugured out why they protected the city and use more reasoning like that for future stuff, but the players had blatantly said the sole reason they protected the town was for mechanical reason, not any roleplay reason. And also on the topic of the players with the moral choices while it wasn't said that it was discussed they were supposed to be morally good, it was blatantly obvious that the DM wasn't happy with running an 'evil' game
@AssassinGTM
5 ай бұрын
Then the DM should talk to his players outside of game, and don't punish them the first time they do what you wanted them to do.
@ofal5124
5 ай бұрын
I just tought this DM could've so easily show the players the less obvious consequences of their actions. If the guy wanted to aim for a more good oriented campagin whit clear moral tone, he should've shown the negative consequences of taking an easy route, while not caring for harm they are causing. Things like making NPCs distrusting, even hostile, since they know the PCs won't think twice about killing them if it would help their goals. Have them be hated or despised by commoners, or even testing their judgment of what attrocities they are willing to commit for their own convinience. and even if after that the party decides to take the cold calculating approach, the DM after ending the campagin could sit down and say. "You defeated the BBEG and saved the world, however, the cities are in chaos and villages are raided by bandits on a daily basis, people are too busy fighting for their life to celebrate your glorious victory... Let's hope it was worth it."
@rb98769
5 ай бұрын
They liked the characters in there and it was their headquarters, that's not mechanical reasons. The DM wanted one game and the players wanted a different game. This is an issue that should have been clarified on session zero. Inserting a mary sue DMPC and making the game awkward for everyone isn't a good way to handle it, they should have just talked it out (as is the actual solution for 99% of these stories). If they came to the conclusion that the players and the DM are incompatible, they could have simply ended the campaign more gracefully and parted ways without burning bridges instead of dragging it into a mess and getting everyone involved frustrated.
@BlueRadium
5 ай бұрын
I did an overpowered DMPC once - the gimmick being, she was actually a big bad, only around for two sessions, and the goal was to show off her bag of tricks + make it sensible for her to be tricky and manipulative out of combat from getting to know everyone, be very smart in combat, as a part of her toolset. I realized she was pretty impossible to prepare for otherwise - being with the party it became sensible for her to fully know and prepare for them, but the reverse where the party could prepare for her was a much more valuable info-trade. She was a tiny-sized pixie with full arcane and divine casting, liked to wild shape into a "fine" sized tiny fey bug and blast spells while being nigh-impossible to hit, among other things. It was 3.5 so shennanigans all over. Ended up working out great and she made for a memorable penultimate main antagonist.
@Anduril74871
5 ай бұрын
The longest running campaign I ever played(3 years exactly) had a DMPC. But he didn't start that way because originally someone else ran the game. It only came about later that he had to take over when the first DM hit a mental block that had him take the story in a weird direction(it included space travel and lightsabers, and was quickly retconned by the second DM). While the DM still controlled the character through RP and decision making, he left it to the players(usually me) to make the rolls for the character. I think this might be the fairest way to handle a DMPC.
@tylersmalley3563
5 ай бұрын
"We weren't glad to be doing this" meanwhile my party waterboards pirates with shape water, spare the dying and uses weapons from a hexblade's pact weapon summoning.
@demomanchaos
5 ай бұрын
The main thing you MUST remember if you are a DM running a DMPC is that they are NOT the main character and MUST remain in the background as much as possible. In my campaign I actually started with 3 because I only had 2 players and needed to fill out the squad, one of them was tagged out after I got more players (Because she was injured in battle, the other two have so far survived). If we weren't nearly 2 years into the campaign and at the final chapter I would have dropped at least one more since I now have more than enough players to fill out a squad. Remember, the DM makes the world but the PLAYERS make the story. It is their tale, not yours. You set it up, but things will always break away from your script. My campaign started as a normal Gundam based one, now we have a Crab God who talks like Macho Man helping us fight an Arch Dracolich who is using time/space manipulation magic to bring in Imperial Star Destroyers, Dragons, Saiyan Oozarus, Zoids, and eventually maybe even Godzilla (At the very least Mecha-Godzilla). The transition between a standard One Year War setting to Macho Crab vs Arch Dracolich was shockingly organic. In relation to the story, the DMPC absolutely should not be stronger than the party. They should be exactly the same as a player character, no bullcrap buffs (One of my DMPCs is arguably the strongest of the group and would easily handle most of the squad, but would have a hard time with the melee monsters).
@I_Am_Kas
5 ай бұрын
The DMPC in my campaign was meant to die a noble death in battle, but my players have stacked multiple healers or healers style builds and refused to let him die.
@penguinmaster7
8 күн бұрын
in my group, DMPCs are very welcome because they're used in a few ways the most common way is as a slot filler. if a player suddenly has life get in the way, a DMPC joins in to fill that gap in the party. as of writing this, the dmpc is filling a gap that was left wide open by the departure of a player a year or so ago. another way we use them is as guides when new to a region. if ther party comes from far away, a guide is useful. the third way is when the party becomes so attached to an NPC that we invite them to join us
@soundrogue4472
5 ай бұрын
0:41 here is something dumb with that argument; EVERY NPC IS A DMPC! As long as you're not railroading the players it's fine! As long as you're being fair to EVERYONE it is fine.
@TrueChaosLord
Ай бұрын
I'm pretty sure he meant npc's that join the party, mostly permanantly
@Chaos706
3 ай бұрын
I like watching these as it helps me learn how to be a good DM. What’s important is to never over shadow the players, it’s their game and if you have a character that’s meant to be stronger than them you need to be careful with how you use them. What I’ve learned from playing in a DMnpc who was overpowered, but they played them correctly:The DM used the character in ways that didn’t belittle or annoy us, they had fun interactions with other players, and during the final fight despite being much stronger they didn’t over shower us. Instead a player asked them if they had a “sword of dragon slaying” or something (we were facing a white dragon, so the character just took out a bag of holding and rummaged through several powerful magic items until they found exactly that. Taking several turns to do so, it was a comedic interaction that allowed the players to be the center of the combat and enjoy the encounter. When time was running short and the DM had to leave soon, they had them get the weapon give to the player, cast dominate creature in the dragon sending it prone. All players then got to unleash their best attack with guaranteed crits to deal massive damage and win the fight.
@IronLordEXO
5 ай бұрын
1st story feels incredibly one-sided and I think is missing too much information to say for certain who is at fault, and honestly they all kinda raise some flags, so I'm gonna chalk it up to lack of proper communication on both sides: the DM wasn't clear about what kind of campaign they wanted to run and the players weren't clear about what kind characters they wanted to play, and the fact that no session 0 was mentioned (unless I missed something) kinda enforces my opinion. Halo definitely went overboard with the DMPC though, I think, but there's not enough information to put the blame entirely on them 2nd story is really something. You could argue that the players were wrong for exploiting the broken experience system and farming the phoenix, but if the DM really did plan for their DMPC to benefit from it with the intention of turning on a clearly unbalanced party, they just set themselves up for failure
@GamblingJester
5 ай бұрын
Yeah, Tbh the amount of "we don't care" in story 1 raises some red flags to me, the dmpc born out of frustration was clearly the wrong way to go about it but I can see why the Dm would be pissed
@AgtPaper665
4 ай бұрын
"DnD 3.5E is a perfectly balanced game with zero exploits. Now, I hope your're all nice and comfy with a delicious, warm cup of tea in hand; while I set off on the jouney of the gestalt, ancestrally gem dragon-blooded, combat rogue, barbarian, psionic thaumaturge named 'Todd""
@ninjastarz2730
5 ай бұрын
whenever my group had the dm play as a dmnpc it was whenever they knew we where heading into a dangerous area missing most of the party and we never saw the same dmnpc after they left us until the very end of the campaign during the epilogue as a checking in on them if we bonded well to them
@icewing593
3 ай бұрын
The second one is literally how every anime big bad fights go. “I have this super crazy ability that no one can copy/bypass ha ha ha!” Then protagonist either completely recreates/uses the same move and one shot them or use the power of friendship.
@TheIronManOfSteel
4 ай бұрын
I’ve had this idea rattling around in my head for a story where it’s the “chosen one” (hold your hatred, I’m getting to the important part) and the pcs meet him and begin their adventure slightly in his shadow. The whole thing is that they start thinking that I’m going in a “this is the awesome main character who was chosen to be the one who blah blah blah…” then I kill him. Brutally. Unforgivingly. The chosen one is dead, and the prophesy has fallen apart. And they have to fulfill the prophecy to the best of their abilities despite the rest of the world telling them not to because it’s impossible. Think of it like if King Arthur was suddenly shot by an assassin right after he pulled the sword from the stone, and they have to pick it up.
@Akuankka000
2 ай бұрын
did you do it? Sounds pretty cool
@luckylucario
5 ай бұрын
I haven't ever played D&D but I really like listening to CritCrab read the stories.
@Wendy_O._Koopa
5 ай бұрын
Superman with a _blue_ cape? It must be *Project A-ko* set in the magnificent far-off year of 2016. Birdman casually glances at the calendar.
@PackRodent7
Ай бұрын
I can just imagine this massive angelic knight sitting at a camp fire surrounded by a bunch of ragged figures draped in black in an alley way with a dead body in the back while talking about the morality stuff and everybody else just being absolutely uninterested
@Kudzooo
5 ай бұрын
So much stood out to me in the first story that I kinda feel like I have to comment one of these videos for the first time. There was definitely a disconnect of expectations between the dm and the party but if op is to be trusted the whole morality thing seems terribly thought out or implemented. Every good decision only seems to let the bbeg get away again and it seems the party doesn’t have a reason to believe that morally good decisions will help them get closer to the end goal. It feels like the opposite in fact. So in response they take the easy, if morally gray/bankrupt, routes because what other choice do they have? Plus there doesn’t seem to be any immediate consequences for their choices so good acts aren’t reinforced (like say getting some help from npcs in tracking the bbeg) and bad decisions are rewarded. Mechanically the party is being led down a dark path that the dm doesn’t seem to want them to go down to begin with. Story wise it doesn’t seem like the party cares a bit about what happens to the npcs around them. It could be the disconnect in expectations as the party wants a more mechanics focused game instead of a bundle of trolley problems or that the dm has either made no effort to or has failed to make the party care about the world around them. If the party gets invested in a village and the people that inhabit it (maybe they sleep in an inn and the inkeeper has a family that’s naturally introduced or one of the party members has a background connection to an npc or the village as a whole) then even if there’s no clear mechanical reward for making the right choice (such as saving the village from a raid) it will still emotionally sting to make the bad choice (these actions would likely need to also have some other consequences besides this). Basically both choices need to have upsides and downsides whether they be mechanical or emotional. And then Superman hits the fan destroying any potential enjoyment the campaign might have. Ah yes I’d love a lecturing, railroading, and all powerful dmpc in my game about moral quandaries. At this point the only thing that can save the game is a mature conversation which…evidently doesn’t happen. If the dm wanted the party to be good he should’ve opened a dialogue about his discontent instead of effectively forcing his will upon the party through his gold knight of the gods as I think the party’s frustration with the dmpc’s taking (more like stealing) of the wheel mixed with the dm’s clear frustration by becoming so directly involved in the first place ensures no potentially game saving conversation and the decline of the campaign.
@etherraichu
4 ай бұрын
12:16 this was a potential campaign saving moment. Have the guy defeat you and take the font, and have the players realize that "Oh, he was never our friend! He's the actual bad guy and was using us this entire time! And now he stole our stuff!" Because if you want your players to go after a character, have that character steal from them. It would've been awesome.
@m3gasn1p3r
5 ай бұрын
DMPC: "Don't torture him!" Party: "do you have a better idea?" DMPC: "NO!" Party: well thats what we're doing then. honestly, he could have given them a better idea there. he could have tried to make them lean a biiit towards being nicer there, but more than either of those things, they should have communicated :P
@jacent.4982
3 ай бұрын
My current DM had a few DMPCs at different times, but they were always temporary and only ever lended their aid to skill checks via help actions or when we specifically requested it. Outside of skill checks, they were extra stats in combat, but the main outcome was still determined by the party. Our current DMPC was a former PC's character, as the player is currently busy with life, but is planning to return. Our DM handles them really well and was more pf a boon than not to the story.
@besttank4274
5 ай бұрын
the thumbnail should have been the god emperor of mankind saying ''IM NOT A GOD''
@philipklote9857
3 ай бұрын
I actually had a similar experience with my party in a moral campaign I’m running. I’ve learned that creating one npc that they learn to love and having them react to the horror that party has created is usually enough to get them talking
@holdenstrack9349
15 күн бұрын
OH MY GOD THATS THE OC THE OTHER GUY "STOLE"
@smileforthecamera4038
Ай бұрын
I just finished up a very fun campaign about a group of Adventurers caught up in a war of conquest and are imprisoned by an evil dictator who was attempting to take over the world! And the really interesting part is that my friend who was running the campaign wanted his BBEG to be a PC which was iffy because my character was starting out at a high level and was supposed to subtly grow stronger along with the players. Despite trying to take over the world, he was also somehow the warden of said war prison, which was later revealed that the dictator was able to split his magic up into 7 different simulacrums. It honestly started out with like 2 simulacrums but the party was having fun and honestly so were we so I(regrettably without my DMs permission 😅) vaguely foreshadowed there being more “Wardens” out there. Luckily the party got excited and my DM liked the idea! It was a lot of fun getting to expand the world, we even had some of the party’s homebrew countries and regions! It was so cool getting to experience everyone’s little additions to the story and I adored the characters interactions. I am very happy I died and they managed to stop said conquest
@eflarsen
5 ай бұрын
the whole superman story would have me asking superman flat out if he was working for the big bad the first time we did what he told us to and then we lost progress on our quest to destroy the big bad.
@joachimwalle3760
7 күн бұрын
That would've been a cool twist! It'd also explain why he attacked them in his bid for the power to create an army of supermen 😃
@Dungeon-workzz
Ай бұрын
I like DMPCs, I only used it because I was running a one shot and designed the monsters for 3 player party, but 1 player didn't want to play so I threw in Barry the DMPC who my players loved as he argued with the monsters and decided 'Nah, you kill the boss alone, he is Satan after all'
@ashtheelder5144
4 ай бұрын
DMPCs are easy. Find some skills your party doesn't have, like a rogue or healer, and have them fade into the background. They know general information and will answer questions but should always be a wallflower. It's the PCs job to shine.
@Lockz1111
5 ай бұрын
Our campaign has a DMPC in the form of Erky Timbers who some may know as an NPC from the sunless citadel module, he joined our party after we rescued him and generally just acts as a healer as we didn't particularly have one and every now and then serves as a way to naturally offer hints in game by being a knowledge domain cleric
@stephenreyes2632
5 ай бұрын
That NPC interrogation, lmao DMPC: "But the CONSEQUENCES!" Party: "lol the consequence was our victory."
@yurililly1978
3 ай бұрын
One time I was a DM on Discord. I made a DM PC because we didn’t have any healers. He was a tiny fluffy axolotl who would heal people and sleep in their pockets. I think the party and the players actually really liked pockets. He was a sassy queen, and he shall never be forgotten lol.
@MaestroMagnifico21
5 ай бұрын
Both groups in the first story seems like they are in the wrong yes it was 100% wrong for the DM to do what he did to the party however the party was pissing on the DMs world without care for how much effort and time the DM put into the world. you are 100% correct they arent compatible as a group which simple communication on what everyone wanted from the game could have avoided that conflict. in these rpg horror stories the subjects always seem to be allergic to communication most issues could be solved easily if one or more of the parties werent dumb and actually discussed the problem with the others.
@NunyaBisnis1993
Ай бұрын
We had a DMPC in our games once. And I daresay, it was one of good ones. A mercenary that came when we wanted him to, just created alongside our characters, nothing weird, we had full vision on how he was created, didn't interfere with our party unless we asked him to help with something, had rolls just like ours, went down just like ours, it was just a normal character just for a little party boost whenever we needed it.
@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel
5 ай бұрын
I've never played dnd before but i really like these videos honestly (i'm starting to look into trying dnd at some point) I also use these videos as ways to learn how to play dnd (more-so stuff that's like a red flag with a player or how to see if a dm isn't the right fit)
@ofal5124
5 ай бұрын
me too brother
@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel
5 ай бұрын
@@ofal5124 it's nice to meet another person here who doesn't play dnd lol
@ofal5124
5 ай бұрын
@@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel so... wanna make a group? jk ofc
@Cinnamonraisin_Bagel
5 ай бұрын
@@ofal5124 I mean 👀 /j
@BunBun299
Ай бұрын
I have played with two GMs who used GMPCs. The first was in a campaign that lasted just under 7 years, the GMPC was an Orc named Kurg that joined about half way, after a player had dropped out. I thought Kurg worked because he never took away player agency. He was a brawler, and joined our front line fighters in combat. But never felt too over powered. He did have the highest strength stat, but he never completely outshined our other melee fighters. The second was in a Gundam campaign I joined I believe a couple months into it running. At first, the GM actually had three GMPCs, to try to make a full squad. Before I had joined, there had only been 2 other players. Sometime after I joined, he wrote out Diane, who had been the squad leader, leaving it to the players to vote on who the next leader would be. Not how things would actually go in a military situation, but it worked out for us. I ended up the new squad leader. We still had 2 GMPCs following us around, Leon, a melee specialist, a Kara, a sniper. Overall, the GM made the story about the squad, and Kara and Leon would follow my orders when I actually gave them. We went through quite a few different mechs before the story concluded, including quite a few not from the Gundam franchise. Basically anything the GM could find a token of to upload to Roll20. This included Voltron, though I could never convince the GM to actually give me Voltron. I jokingly said that if he did, I'd have to introduce my girl's 4 identical quintuplet sisters to fly the other Lions. 😁 I do think Kara ended up with the highest kill count of the squad by the wars end, though I was just behind her. I also ended up with the highest count of getting shot down. I had a very aggressive, high risk, high reward fighting style that usually involved me being on the front lines. Lowest shot down count went to Niko, our artillery specialist, because he never went anywhere near the front lines. That same GM is currently running another game, where he has an anthro rabbit as our team pilot for his GMPC. He's unlikely to outshine any player characters on missions. Still, while I have had good experiences with GMPCs, I do understand that I'm in the minority. You need a Game Master who can keep their egos in check.
@iank472
5 ай бұрын
The first story is just a group of murderhobos combined with a poor DM. The players should probably consider respecting their future DMs settings and NPCs while the DM needs to be a lot less ham fisted in dealing with players when adding consequences to their games. Edit: The line "When games were done we would privately complain to each other about how much we despised him (DMPC)". That's where I lose most sympathy for the players. No DM is ever going to improve or change their game for the players if you DON'T TELL THEM WHAT'S WRONG!
@LemoneVR
Ай бұрын
I had a DMPC once. My players killed it in the first session. It was a healer, the party needed a healer. My dear murder hobo players.
@justicedunham4088
5 ай бұрын
So the party doesn’t want to do good because the big bad escaped, so the dm keeps letting the big bad escape when they cave and do good? Yeah, that’s a fool right there. If you want them to play the way you want, you have to discuss it or incentivize it by giving them what they want or giving good loot.
@AntonioTheTurtle
5 ай бұрын
I use a dmpc. It is just a life domain cleric quandrix student. The only purpose is healing with goodberries.Remember that is 4 hp a berry,40hp a spell,3 per long rest(1 free casting and 2 spell slots). I named him Jerry due to being insignificant and only existing to be a lackey for the party. The offensive version would be Terry(Terrorist Jerry). Try using Jerries in your game for 120 hp of healing over 3 minutes.
@AntonioTheTurtle
5 ай бұрын
Due to a thing in the campaign people can have multiple of the same class and subclass due to a diamond so Jerry got life domain cleric 2 more times.Plot points make them the backup character for when others are the DM. So now 100hp a minute,600 hp with all spell slots.(6 1st level spell slots)
@f145hr3831jr
5 ай бұрын
The argument of the dragon being too proud to allow a rider was adressed by Shadiversity, and he suggested an alternative: "Go ahead and ride me in battle if you want, but you don't get to command me and I don't care if you fall off and die". Also works with centaurs and other sapient creatures potentially usable as mounts.
@davidspring4003
5 ай бұрын
Was this before or after the anti-woke brain rot set in?
@mwhearn1
4 ай бұрын
I'm running a DMPC which is a Unicorn. One of the players is a Cavalier. The Unicorn is willing to let the player ride him but reminds him that he is a passenger & not a rider.
@nukleon4808
9 күн бұрын
“Time Moves Differently In Hell” would make a killer tagline on a movie poster.
@TheyCallMeCarg
5 ай бұрын
I ran a DMPC - Ezdek the dwarf ranger - up to level 5, and then he left. Ezdek knew the relatively new homebrew world and helped them navigate it a bit. He didn't tell them where to go, but he knew things about the places they did and some of the unique bits about them. For example, when one of the PCs was petrified by a basilisk, he knew that if you rubbed the basilisk's stomach acid on the PCs that it would reverse the petrification, something I'd not seen done in other games but made sense to me. There was no ego in this character. He was a great help in exploration, helped a little in combat, was virtually invisible during social encounters. There are definitely reasons not to run a DMPC, and more than a few DMs who should probably never do it, but anyone telling me what I can and cannot do in my game is simply out of bounds.
@fred_derf
5 ай бұрын
By (my) definition a DMPC is always an issue, if the character is not an issue then it's just an NPC. It's the presence of the issue(s) that turns an NPC into a DMPC.
@amelia8010
5 ай бұрын
Funnily, two campaigns I’ve been a part of had DMPCs but they only came along after we recruited our favorite NPCs and the DM wanted to make them competent in a fight.
@charade539
5 ай бұрын
I'mma be honest...in story 1 this party sounds absolutely awful. The DM clearly wanted to give them a chance to grow as players by making them make hard choices that force them to see the world as alive. Instead, they're playing it like a board game. I would have quit this game in heartbeat due to the players, not the GM.
@sportsfreak33393
5 ай бұрын
I think it's the age old problem not having a productive session 0. Not being on the same page doesn't make the players, DMs, or your fun wrong, but it leaves DM odd manout.
@pip0027
5 ай бұрын
I'm in agreement, if the party can't be bothered with narrative and roleplay why should I care as a dm just play a board game or crpg then that being said the dm should of been able to show consequences for the actions the party takes that isn't superman trying to pigeon hold them I don't think the issue is their choices but the reason for their choices which feels like them just metagaming
@xinf3ctdx
5 ай бұрын
Idk. The DM was definitely the problem here. You can’t really blame the players for not playing the way you wanted them to. If you’re gonna give the players “hard choices”, they need to actually be hard choices. You can’t expect them to care about your random NPC’s just because you made them. You need to put something that the players might care about on the line, not just go “a random village is gonna get attacked if you don’t do this thing.”
@petermacmillan2428
3 ай бұрын
Yeah, the thing that actually got them to take the “good” option was that their stuff, home base, and favorite NPCs were in the city. It seems like perhaps the morally gray choices would have given them more trouble if they had first met and had time to get to know and enjoy the place/characters that were in the town their strategically superior decisions were endangering. I think that the DMs failing was that, in his frustration, he put in an overpowered DMPC that took away player agency and railroaded the players. If he had instead had the repercussions of their actions exist beyond that, possibly like having a bad reputation when going into cities, or having people start to doubt if their saviors from the overlord were any better then him, he could have not only had some good compelling storytelling, but also could have avoided this problem completely.
@Akuankka000
2 ай бұрын
Not really, the dm seems super annoying by forcing a superman kinda character to their team that berates them for every bad action they do. That is awful, I would’ve started to do more bad just to spite the stupid character
@biskaye
2 ай бұрын
Dms with power trips like this is like that kid you would play with in your childhood and they just keep reinventing new rules to make them win every time.
@AmomenttobeReal
Ай бұрын
First Story; Am i the only one that think that OP was being hmmm... weird in the way he wrote? "We didnt care" "he was f annoying" it sounds like a group of murder hobos that do not really want to explore the setting, just want to kill and get things as if it was a videogame. Do I think the DM did good? not really, do I think the party was "oh poor guys, horror story!" no. I think they sound like awfull players that do not roleplay and the Dm got fed up by the group, was NOT having fun in the sligthies, seemed to be frustrated and retaliated badly. But yeah, It makes me think I would not want to play with either of the party neither the DM. But Op was leaving off a lot of nuance and villanizing the DM. If this was a game that had been going on for months, and the Dm had tried many routes to fix the game for both the players and himself and had been hit on the face time after time, maybe killing them all was a form to retaliate before telling evebryone to F off. Or maybe the Dm was just bad as op said. but well, we dont know.
@boiwhyyy
4 ай бұрын
DM put himself into a hero position
@emperorwai
4 ай бұрын
Whats the point of a 'morally grey' campaign and then throw a dmpc boy scout to make the party 'do the right thing'? Dumb. I hope those players didnt return to that DMs table.
@Akuankka000
2 ай бұрын
Yeah I don’t get the people saying the party was in the wrong here. They played how they wanted to, and unless the dm discussed how he wanted the campaign to go, there’s nothing wrong with that.
@kirua258
10 күн бұрын
@@Akuankka000 Did they really played here, though? Playing a morally Gray campaign is fine and all, but right here, the players gave some serious "Don't Give a Damn" about this. Playing a bad team is fine. But it's not the same as "not playing at all". "Hard choices were easy, we didn't cared". How the hell do you play a character wanting to protect a world (Fighting the BBEG) if they don't give a damn about it? He didn't stopped them to make these choices actually, he let them. And he admitted, even when they DID the morally sound choice, it wasn't for more than "mechanical choice", from the OP's words. Did the DM was right? Far from it. Was the player justified being annoyed with Superman? 100 percent. But was the DM unreasonable to be pissed ot players being "unconcerned about the citizen, debatting from a mechanical point of view"? I don't think so.
@GrimMcGrimmer
5 ай бұрын
one of the few times I played dnd, there was a sentient item dnpc who didnt do anything,, but had one usage, but couldnt be used on any bosses or the BBEG it was like a bfg only for certain scenarios and that campaign was really fun
@BetelR
Ай бұрын
I’m honestly more annoyed by the players. They just.. aren’t role playing. Unless they’re all strictly neutral characters.
@matthewhanf3033
5 ай бұрын
The DMPC I used was a vampire. He let the PCs use his mansion as a base and would only help them fight demonic creatures since he had a vendetta against them. Obviously, he could only help at night, so the PCs knew they couldn't rely on his help during the day.
@NicktheLongman
5 ай бұрын
Comically evil moral choices are immersion breaking. Don't blame the players for not engaging with moral conundrums when you only give them two choices: failure or evil.
@ajondoe5047
5 ай бұрын
So In my first campaign I've ever played , DM had multiple DMPCs. He was pretty chill about it and made them more like NPCs that tagged along our party. When I joined he let my character shine a bit. We were originally headed to Avernus but the DM was so captivated by my PC's story that we are now in my PC's kingdom of samurai dragonborn fighting Arkhan and 4 more champions of Taimat. Dude even bought Fizban's and did a whole reveal that I was a sapphire dragonborn. Other than that our DM let us bring a few characters from our one shots to the main campaign too.
@ladonmccabe
4 ай бұрын
There are two types of DMs: those who want to make a game for the players, and those who want to make a game for themselves.
@DraconicDruid42
3 ай бұрын
I always make DMPCs act as Reuben from the lilo and stitch TV show, like only having them play an actual part when the party asks him to stop taking care of camp for a bit
@zshimada
5 ай бұрын
I've seen short-term DMPCs done well before. The key is to 1: not make them the main character, and 2: have them passively fill a specific role and nothing else. As an example, if a DMPC paladin needs an escort to a specific location, the path to which is known for having lots of bandits, it would make sense to hire a few bodyguards. It would also alleviate some worry from the party about the person they are escorting being shanked by some goblin with a sharp stick. The paladin could engage in battle, but he would need to be at BEST on par with the other characters, or at worst, weaker by some margin (though not enough to be killed too easily.) They also would not be the first to engage anything, and would mostly sit back and let the party itself decide how to handle an encounter (hence the passive part) and if it came to a fight, not rush into the thick of it, but stick to their role in a way that nobody would say "Hey, you stole our thunder." It would make sense for our aforementioned, hypothetical paladin to take the front line and heal wounded characters, but it would not make sense for them to win the fight all by themselves. To that end, the DM would need to scale the fight up to keep it at a relatively similar difficulty to a fight without them. it's a very narrow path to walk, but with a competent DM who knows how not to be a spotlight hog, it can be done in a way that will not make the party groan or hate them for it.
@DrewMarinelli
3 ай бұрын
I think one of the hardest parts of dming is giving up control to the players. When I first started I was a little too railroady and while I don't think my players explicitly fought back against it, I think I soured the experience for them. When I began to loosen up and give them significantly more agency in what they did, not only did they tend to follow the pads I had already written out but the story that we collectively were telling got better and better and better. That first story just seems like a DM who refuses to let the party be the main characters of the story. It's hard to give up that control but it's also necessary for the party to enjoy the campaign
@bryanalexander7571
5 ай бұрын
I often play a DMPC. Its almost always a bard who is there to record the deeds of the heroes. Establishing that early on as a thing in the setting makes it easy to include. The cool thing about bards are that they are a super-easy way to introduce lore and exposition from a source the PCs trust. The other cool thing is that because hes there to record the heroics, he doesn't do many heroics himself. He hangs out in the back, tossing out some inspiration and healing occasionally.
@PredictedCyborg
14 күн бұрын
Played in a campaign with DMPCs. The DM basically had them along as a backup healer most of the time and let us, the players, lead things while they kinda stood back and helped when needed. Best way to do it in my opinion. Especially when said DMPC was kidnapped partway through and rescuing them became another reason for us to confront the enemies.
@PSYCHOpaty4
Ай бұрын
"And remember: you are true heroes!" - DMPC, probably
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