NCsoft has just released some big updates to this, link: kzitem.info/news/bejne/yWZ7rmtvjqRoZZw | Covering MMO content 6 days a week @ twitch.tv/kanonxo - come follow me!
@Corusame
Ай бұрын
I really respect that you always tell it like it is with these P2W games. Many content creators won't do it because they don't want to lose sponsorship opportunities. I'm glad there are still people like you that side with the community instead of the money. Great vid!
@maxwellalves3881
Ай бұрын
All games are p2w
@Corusame
Ай бұрын
@@maxwellalves3881 not true at all
@maxwellalves3881
Ай бұрын
@@Corusametell me what game is not p2w?
@Corusame
Ай бұрын
@@maxwellalves3881 to name just a few: 1. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 3. Dark Souls III 4. Bloodborne 5. Hades 6. Elden Ring 7. Nier: Automata 8. Persona 5 9. Hollow Knight 10. Divinity: Original Sin 2 11. Cyberpunk 2077 12. Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen 13. Monster Hunter: World 14. Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice 15. Disco Elysium
@Kanti
Ай бұрын
I tolerate p2w to a degree but with this update they kinda crossed the line for me, i feel like it will only get worse with time.
@baska-
Ай бұрын
100%. These companies are too greedy and too desperate to make as much money as possible before the game inevitably dies, unfortunately.
@FelixJMK
Ай бұрын
@@baska- The real problem is that this tactic works. Because players cant control their impulse to spend, when they are faced with enough of these progression gates. Tempt them long enough and they wanna hop over the gate by swiping.
@Impuracle
Ай бұрын
I tolerance grammatical errors.
@baska-
Ай бұрын
@@FelixJMK yeah, actually many of these companies pay psychologists to help them find ways to encourage people from different economic classes to spend as much as they can so that from small dolphins up to huge whales feel the urge to spend. I have swiped in the past, but I've learnt my lesson and will never give money to any P2W game in my life.
@RandomUserYTisFailing
Ай бұрын
@@FelixJMK Who has the money for this shit though? Most people on unemployment, rents the highest they've been in decades, food prices through the roof, tons of people almost in poverty level limits and yet gaming companies are still releasing gacha games and making BANK! Off who? Who the hell is spending all their money on a damn f2p game? No way the streamers/whales are spending that much to not care about the 99% of people... Blows my mind. People on Mabinogi (10k active players, most afk) have told me they have spent $500+ dollars A WEEK on gachapon to get stronger. WHY? HOW? WTF?
@Avalack-g7c
Ай бұрын
NCSoft and AGS need to hear that guy. He really likes this game and knows what to do to make TL better in the Global version
@deadmanwalkin23
Ай бұрын
Dude they are here for quick money... once TL is done there will be a next MMO.
@skeithaseoxd
Ай бұрын
they don't care, they think they're always right and no one knows better than them, and they made new world lmao, and people like them never learn, forget about tl just wait for something else (i've been waiting for years)
@liandesert9305
Ай бұрын
They do not hear their 20 years old game Lineage 2... with the same p2w systems, of course that they are not going to listend to their new game now, they know the system works.
@blacklord3212
Ай бұрын
dude if u ever worked in development or even tried you will know that the scums who designed this system know exactly how it works and how long it takes , they are extremely dirty with their mindset , and even if they change this system responding to the feedback , this worries me about the future of the game , I wouldn't want to invest a year or more in a game that has this mindset of developers , such a waste , I know how talented the developers who made this game and they are extremely knowledgable with unreal engine because I myself worked on unreal engine projects , but honestly these talents are so wasted with these convuluted systems because of a scum company ....
@HadleyMarshall
Ай бұрын
Wont be a better mmo for another 20 years. Best best is to find an indie mmo instead
@AmaiaCrystal
Ай бұрын
Man, I was so scared because I was 100% going to play the shit out of this game. Beta was so fun and couldn't wait, I also don't mind spending a little money and dont mind games being P2W to some degree, but now I am saved, I was really hoping NCsoft would fuck up somehow because I reallyyyyy didn't want to get addicted to a new MMO that honestly was amazing. THANKS NCSOFT!
@Tory-JJ
3 күн бұрын
Mhm
@NickNeutron
Ай бұрын
Im sorry, i love T&L, but why in the name of holy gamers does gear leveling systems have to be this complex. Is there really anyone out there that thinks this is fun gameplay? this is going to be such a chore, not just to do but to learn all these systems.
@baska-
Ай бұрын
Exactly. The reason why they make it complex is to add more P2W, clearly. But let's say in the case of a non-P2W game, it's very important to balance complexity and simplicity. You don't want an overly simple game that is boring but too much complexity can be just as bad as you've described.
@nelsonuzumaki4130
Ай бұрын
talking from a player who comes from playing BDO for a long time, i could say this is fine, at least the gearing isnt that meantlly breaking,
@amcdonald7479
Ай бұрын
You mean like every mmo since 2001? Clearly uve never did Korean MMOs.
@RandomUserYTisFailing
Ай бұрын
Koreans find it fun. That's why they play it. We do not, but companies still keep trying the Asian market idea since it'll make them more money short and long term with people swiping for fun for two months then leaving.
@1991sub
Ай бұрын
complex? lmao
@A.Steeeve
Ай бұрын
Thanks Kanon! 🙏 I hope devs are still following your content.
@Leozinhozd
Ай бұрын
events should give u a current to trade in event shop directly for runes/hammers/stones. That's a great way to assemble F2P on events
@H4d3s
Ай бұрын
dk why developers dont understand that a good game dont need paywalls. Guild Wars 2 did it right
@rjsaripada7880
Ай бұрын
Gw2 is my main game and I love it to bits, it just sucks that I can't get my pvp fix there as GW2 doesn't have regional servers for us over in Asia.
@jacksheldon8566
Ай бұрын
except for skyscale grinding. never finished mine.
@snowdropfox5754
28 күн бұрын
@@jacksheldon8566 You literally get it basically free in SotO and with minimal effort. Same with Warclaw in Janthir Wilds. And Skyscale was never behind a paywall, just to set the record straight.
@jacksheldon8566
27 күн бұрын
@@snowdropfox5754 you need to pay gems to access it unless you got it for free when it released. I wouldn't call taking hours of fetching hundreds of objects around, then doing boring miniquests in all of Tyria, with a wiki opened, "minimal effort."
@ryanseaman9802
5 күн бұрын
@@jacksheldon8566sky scale grind wasn't that bad .. Got mine in 4 days and that's through living world method... Soto one takes even less time
@charalamposkallimanis9609
Ай бұрын
Thank you for this video man. Your time spend into this end game version is massive for me. Personaly as a casual Dad I do not mind play the game and reach end game in like 1 month instead of a week. But if I am about to do the same thing over and over or forged to do a specific thing every fken day like in Lost Ark I am gonna get borred very soon.
@GodHexe
7 күн бұрын
when i see games getting ruined or messed with, it makes me appreciate the first descendant devs even more.
@JeffKeens
Ай бұрын
Uh this sounds kinda bad and will turn off a lot of western players
@TheARESxGOD
Ай бұрын
P2W game gets more P2W no way, who could've seen this coming ?
@MrZuko2
Ай бұрын
THIS IS NOT A HATE COMMENT, I ONLY WANT TO UPDATE THE CONTENT OF THE VIDEO WITH THE NEW INFORMATION POST PATCHES. This video is partially correct. He says this game is P2W, which is true, like all the other MMOs nowadays. However, this one allows the F2P player to reach maximum power if we do it correctly. NOTE: Kanon has been using money on the game to test whether it is pay-to-win in his streams. The thing is that he was able to buy all of that because of 3 major things. 1) The F2P player has already reached the gear he bought; if you need it, you will not sell it, at least not for a low price like it is happening right now on the hyper boost server where he plays. 2) It is a hyperboost server. This means that all the loot on sale is easier to get, and with more offers than demand, you have a lower price. Economic 101 3) You have experienced Korean players who know which items get and where. Honestly, I think it will take a lot of time to have a market this developed as it is on the Korean servers because the players must learn the mechanics and where to get specific items. At the same time, the game limits the resources you need to sell items on the Action House. An example of this is the limit of 50 enchanted ink per week or the limit of 500 extraction stones per week. This system of action house benefits the game by getting P2W players in the later stages of the game and benefits F2P players at the same time by getting some Lucent (Paid currency) for free. However, we already know the existence of the hyper boosting in Korea. That server was made to allow F2P players to reach the max cap before major updates FOR FREE. That way, the gap that Kanon is talking about at the end of the video is reduced for each patch. At 2:50, That dagger could be better; it even has the blue runes at max level. At the same time, it is accurate that it takes a ton of time to full a weapon Tier 2, but based on Korean servers, you have ten months before the following major update... so you have time to get it. At 2:57, This is partially fake; you still have to upgrade your skills with books to get the maximum power. At 5:46, What he is saying is real, but you need to know that those resonance stones are really easy to get. The point is that once you get Purple items, you will partially forget some blue ones. Those blue ones should be transmuted to get many resonance stones. For example, with a Tier 2 transmutation, you get five resonance stones. You can get that level in many ways, but you do not need to use purple items for that. At 7:08, He talks about transmutation and how to get the items to transmute. That is partially true; the primary source of resources for transmutation is the open-world dungeons. This is because you can use the transmutation with other items that are not equipment, too, and it is usually more cost-efficient. This is because the Marind has few uses now. At 12:42, Just for reference, with 55 runes, green and blue (which can be gotten from weekly missions, for example, but mainly dungeon, as he said in the video, with two runes per run), you will get 280-902 runes fragments. At 12:54, This system was refactored. The amount doesn't increase per roll (See patch note 2024-07-30). At 22:48, He is not taking into consideration the existence and purpose of the hyperboost server. At the same time, the economy of the game will not be so developed at lunch, so the P2W player will need to play the game to get those items or wait until the F2P player sells those items (probably at high and crazy prices at the beginning). However, at the end of the game, he is right when we have a developed economy. The P2W will benefit from reaching the higher tiers of equipment way faster than the F2P. Still, at that point, it does not matter if you are not a new player who plans to play F2P, and if you are a new F2P player, the best course of action for you is to wait for the hyper boost server and the migrate from it to a global server. At 24:12, this does not make any sense because if there is not an F2P player at the cap, then how is the P2W player going to buy those items? Remember that all the players are capped on the limit of contract, dungeon token, abyss points, daily and weekly limits, etc. At 25:27, we have the same issue here: the P2W player will first need the F2P player to reach that gear to put it on sale. Otherwise, they can not buy it. At 27:55, He is entirely correct on this; NCsoft should change the rewards for each event, to be honest
@LiquidGas0
9 күн бұрын
Thanks for clearing all this up! Big difference really excited for global launch
@justinpatrick9249
2 күн бұрын
so f2p should just hold there shit and not sell it making p2w people have to play the game? makes sense to meee
@MrZuko2
5 сағат бұрын
@@justinpatrick9249 yep, the only thing that you get selling to other players is lucent... So you can play the game without selling to other players if you are the most communist player lol
@aBait.
Ай бұрын
You can also gamba for bis t2 gear or straight up buy lithographs on AH while previously you had to farm them yourself, so another limit for whales got lifted. At least you can grind challenge dungeons for lucent without limits which is big for f2p.
@FelixJMK
Ай бұрын
Problem with that is the fact that most groups ask for gearscores that f2ps dont have, since they wanna clear fast. Generally, challenge dungeon groups want you to have fully traited t2 gear. F2Ps hardly have that.
@aBait.
Ай бұрын
@@FelixJMK Thats on KR, I'm sure requirements will be lower on west start.
@elentb2261
Ай бұрын
@@FelixJMKif u play kr server frm the start f2p full trait t2 already
@UnrivaledPiercer
Ай бұрын
As an old school Lineage 2 player, I am okay with a long grind. I have many good memories of 24+ hour groups of just grinding the same room in an area. However if the grind isn't fun, then you have a problem. Hopefully they can just expand the rune system to allow it to be more globally available to the game map and with more farming areas it will open up a lot more. Making the most use of the world map at end game should be any MMO's goal. You want players everywhere, doing everything, not stuck in one spot because its the only place to get something. Speaking of Lineage 2 again, since everything originally (not now, the new "game" is honestly horrible.) was attainable by players and everything was tradable between players. It made it so the best path to end game was honestly just to play, literally anywhere. Grind exp, get drops, sell drops, buy better gear, rinse repeat. It didn't really matter where you were in the game, as long as you could play efficiently. I really hope that T&L can find that balance, and make the entire game fun and rewarding no matter what content you're doing. Everything needs to come from everywhere, just maybe balance the rates. Make field mobs drop useful things, sure the rates would be lower and bots would need dealt with better, but then you would even see players roaming around the overworld areas more. The goal should be to make the world feel alive, not dead unless you go into a dungeon. Especially since the challenge dungeons are instanced, that's the wrong direction they should be going.
@warr39
Ай бұрын
În the old L2 most ppl could not swipe for power, at least no to this degree. A long grind is ok if most of the ppl around you have to do it aswell. Right now în tnl this is no longer the case.
@gintautaskatkus5577
Ай бұрын
As an another old school l2 player, comparing l2 and this...Yeah it looks modern and maybe people will have vibe for this game, but it will die after 2months in EU and will stay in Korea, like rest new mmo. I miss freedom in games when you could choose ur own path, how you want and where to grind. l2 had class quest until then you can decide where you want to lvl up, pet quest, nobless quest, crafting, spoiling and managing your adena business with your dwarf. Its huge impact why l2 was best made mmo ever. RIP l2
@luizresende
Ай бұрын
You forgetting that L2 was sub back in the day. So anyone willing to pay a sub, was willing to grind as long that was the only way to do it. Thats not the case with TL
@-Ryu-
Ай бұрын
The essence of l2 was bots and rmt, here will be the same
@romaroalte2645
Ай бұрын
@@-Ryu-yes, I believe this company will not suddenly change, look at L2 and even my heart brokening L2Classic - bots as many as i never seen in any mmorpg, spam rmt in chat to crazy degree, dead locations, p2w swipe, autofarm - they called it "classic", that was the last spit to the face of true Lineage fans. I don't believe T&L will not have bots, rmt and crazy p2w EVENTUALLY. The predator carefully testing the water and I know him well.
@h3x_bg
Ай бұрын
First Time using Kanon as Podcast. I can recommend :) Generally speaking, the rune system has potential. I don't think it's a bad thing that you should gamble for the rune slot, but a fair chance would be nice. (1/3%) The cheeky and worst thing is that the hammers get more expensive with every failure. I can actually live with the rest.
@justinasbar
Ай бұрын
Grind is real even on hyperboost. So on global open it will be even harder along with p2w being much stronger. I really dont like that developers are adding different layers of p2w, to make it look as less p2w as possible - multiple currencies, battlepasses, stuff you can/cant buy "directly". Instead of making all this mess, they should simply add full traits/runes items to the shop, since it is already like that, just hidden under few tabs.
@buddylord3276
Ай бұрын
For sure this is a fun game, but if you're planning to compete in any real way, you gotta swipe hard it seems like.
@blacklord3212
Ай бұрын
@@buddylord3276 before this update if u wanted to compete you could compete it just needed very tiny more time , but now to compete the gap is so huge you won't even be close to swiper for months since there are too many systems , ncsoft being ncsoft as always , start nice and drop an update that fucks up literally everything
@justinasbar
Ай бұрын
I agree, if you dont take this game seriously, you will be fine. P2W element is only important for tryhards, who will compete for points in scoreboard.
@jackynikola
Ай бұрын
Swipe is must if you wanna pvp. Even on hyper boost you are just getting rolled like nothing without swiping.
@Synzoa
Ай бұрын
Well now we know why the guy left. And look what is happening... no one there to pull back the reins anymore. NC soft is going to kill another game for the west before it even comes out.
@hby7768
Ай бұрын
this is my favorite mmo that came out of Korea. It maybe my 3rd favorite MMO of all time, I've been playing non stop since NA beta 2-3 weeks ago
@romaroalte2645
Ай бұрын
The other two are BDO and L2?
@barneyman1574
Ай бұрын
rip my f2p dream.
@randysanjaya5607
Ай бұрын
lol f2p player but always complain developer this developer that you guys always hoping developer helps what you want but you didnt support them with 0 money spend you think developer didnt have employe? how developer pay employe salary if all player like you guys f2p imagine you are the developer you build really full effort on 1 game and then all your player is f2p play you guys ,how you pay your employe? you build game of course you want profit its just a game stop complaning pay2win if you broke get a work we play game for fun
@zsoca921
Ай бұрын
@@randysanjaya5607 So that means, if something is free, they have to design and implement systems that looks unfair without pity system? I will tell you a big secret: Skins. That will do the trick. You can design and implement new systems without making it purposely P2W and unfair. If F2P means this, then make it pay to play.
@mirsi007
Ай бұрын
@@randysanjaya5607 Look at Apex Legends. Y different kind of game, but still free and not p2w. Also its most proffitable EA game.. Skins is the way, or just let us pay for game like WoW or Diablo. I want to play against players who put in the same effort as me. Not lazy rich p2w noobs.
@randysanjaya5607
Ай бұрын
@@zsoca921 in TL skin can buy with lucent lucent can we get from dungeon item that we sell in Auction house come on people complain about pity system but never support developer who make the game with spending a bit all MMORPG is pay2win XD just play its a fun game bro
@nil7118
Ай бұрын
@randysanjaya5607 i work and im well off, this is nasty asian p2w shit we dont like in the west, keep it in asia, il pay to buy the game or a sub, but dont try to use a shop to cheat me.
@brandoncue3013
Ай бұрын
RUNE LEVELS IS EXACTLLY WHAT AMAZON DID WITH NEW WORLD THAT KILLED THE GUY. THIS STUPID INVISIBLE GEAR SCORE GRIND CALCULATOR THAT YOU COULDNT SEE UNTIL THEY FINALLY PATCHED IT WENT 99% OF THE PLAYERS QUIT. WHAT A JOKE
@devanedwards5986
12 күн бұрын
Shout out to you for not keeping the Maron's internally for your guild or hiding it, you're a real one for that bro
@oAazo
Ай бұрын
Rune Hammer cost after each failure just got removed. It now costs a permanent base amount after every failure
@MMO-SKY
Ай бұрын
remove failure feature and remove hammers from the cash shop.
@coldbreezeproductions
26 күн бұрын
Any game that has a fail to upgrade feature is p2w dog shit @@MMO-SKY
@louiseQue
21 күн бұрын
I haven't played T&L. Though I've played a few games from NCsoft. I remember Blade & Soul, release was great. Lots of people, it wasn't much p2w at the beginning. It eventually went sideways, players relied more on p2w. Was hoping to play this game honestly but knowing how NCsoft will do p2w. Probably not :(
@ENAYE
Ай бұрын
i hope they dont keep adding different TYPES of vertical progression because for me, in a game like lost ark, multiple types of progression really do lead to burn out. gems, engravings, accessories, set bonus, honing, elixers, transcendence, cards, weapon/armor quality, and now the new honing AND NOW tier 4... and the fact that all are behind an RNG/pity system... it's honestly too much... i hope T&L stays clear of the mistakes smilegate has done with lost ark and rather focuses on nailing down a form of vertical progression that keeps the player engaged
@Klannahar
Ай бұрын
Increasing hammer cost on fail is the most retarded system i ever see XD Did play with mmo where socket fail mean it remove 1 existing socket from the item, but success rates were much higher for it, and u could boost it as free to play by feeding 5 trash gem in above that u had the cash shop socket talismans. In other hand items could drop with socket as well so u could get a full socket item for free from mobs and u were not gated on how much u can farm / day. P2W players can farm runes much faster cause full T2 gear, full trait team vs less geared player. Also dimantle runes the amount of fragments u get is bit messed up. lvl 1 blue rune give same as lvl 10 blue what is not fun. Edit: Archeage had fishing contest event and it was fun :D
@GodFromNorway
10 күн бұрын
Are people surprised lol. It's what NCsoft has ALWAYS been doing. Make people think game is fair > people get attached to it after investing 1000+ hours > make game pay2win > milk the players that are too attached at this point and don't want to quit
@LostArkLover
Ай бұрын
3:45, So true. While, Lost ark was uber p2w with more shit to power up! The cap reach in T&L is great even as a f2p.
@cosmo7291
Ай бұрын
Skill Specializations unlocks at level 25 even though the game says Lvl30
@Rex_Smashington
Ай бұрын
I'm already over it and it hasn't even released yet. The systems shouldn't be more complicated than the actual gameplay. There are only this many hoops to jump through because of the monetization. The more obstacles they put in the way, the more likely someone is to give up and pull out their wallet. Hard pass on launch.
@brettlewis2900
Ай бұрын
The rune system is a huge turn off. I can get the rng of rolling sockete part but it should be more in the lines of if you have one socket filled out with lets say def. The next 2 can only roll atk/sup until all 3 slots are filled out. Once going back for the order of things it also can only roll one of the 2 other slots that you would need to complete a "rune word" bonus. Yes it would still be a major grind to get the order you want but it also ensures that you will always have a run word active on rerolls.
@BlackLyondreamworks
22 күн бұрын
The thing about lost Arks pay to win structure is that if you don't do it it hurts the players around you... it's fucked up the way they did it.... bdo it's more pay for convenience and the more whales the better the in-game free to play economy ironically enough.... we won't know how bad this is until 5 years later
@drumroll2716
Ай бұрын
Didn't they just announce that hammer requirements don't increase after each failure?
@coldbreezeproductions
26 күн бұрын
But you can still fail, that's my issue. I don't want to farm all day and fail to upgrade, waste of time like lost ark.
@HadleyMarshall
Ай бұрын
I was going to definitely play this on September 17th but if getting high tier gear is going to be a heavy time sink and money sink, nah chief this ain’t it. I’m out 😂
@DEEV1991
Ай бұрын
Fairly objective and constructive take. Keeping any multiplayer game with any level of competition fair and sticking to cosmetic customizations as means of monetization will go a long way. They just need to be smart and provide different brackets for customization for each budget level.
@-liketv
12 күн бұрын
Hello friends, my name is Master Deadly, I am a veteran MMO player, started with Ultima Online, and last game was NW, been top player in few MMO and hoping to join a big and strong guild in TNL. Team player and also leader of few gank squads. I am east server player. I hope this message reach leader of a clans. Bought early access to TNL.
@elismartinez2407
Ай бұрын
So, don't touch this system until they improve it? got it.
@diaboliquedia4300
Ай бұрын
You HAVE to engage with the system otherwise playing the game is pointless. So basically it's don't touch the game until they improve it.
@ifeawosika966
Ай бұрын
@@diaboliquedia4300 game is dead with this system. Rng layer on rng layer
@RandomUserYTisFailing
Ай бұрын
If you ignore the system you won't be able to do anything lol this game is flopping in NA 100% like Lost Ark.
@Dkohltje
Ай бұрын
@@RandomUserYTisFailingno it wont 😂 its much better than ark
@paintspot1509
Ай бұрын
Just don't touch this game
@rankyb8088
Ай бұрын
How about the mid teir money spenders? You kinda were speaking in absoultes. Free vs whales. Games inherently shouldn't be free. Your expected to spend some sort of money
@Ricardo-pb7kc
Ай бұрын
well you will be in the midle you will dominate over the free and be dominated by the whales. When game start die and people start quit by burn out first the free people will quit, after that the midle pack ( dolphins, mid tier ) and for last whales will jump ship. The point of this game and all other KR MMORPG is put difficulties/grind etc for encourage people spend in the shop, people that spend less will get tired faster, and because this is a pvp game many will quit when start feel useless and just a meat shield in the pvp for the whales.
@barncagkanyldrm4618
Ай бұрын
in these kind of games being mid tier money spender only wastes ur money man because you don't really gain any power
@Monkeyman5550
Ай бұрын
If your advertising a game as free to play then you should not expect to spend anything.. Thats litterally what the name means dude wtf you are on
@rankyb8088
Ай бұрын
@@Monkeyman5550 those poor workers making the game sure as hell didn't work for free. What r u on
@ShinmotoGaming
Ай бұрын
Half way through the video and i already get the feeling that this game is going to be a shitshow of daily chores, just to have fun in suday PvP with your friends ...
@-Ryu-
Ай бұрын
you can do pvp pretty much when you want but yes, is a tremendous amount of grind and not a fun one
@ShinmotoGaming
Ай бұрын
@@-Ryu- I mean, sure, i can have my face smashed in by P2W Dudes, but that doesn't sound like something anybody wants to do, just because you CAN. My point is that i know this system from other Korean games, in which they push this intentionally to more or less "force" you into P2W, because the gap between you and the guys beating you will get bigger and bigger and i am not talking about a skill issue, which would be a totally different discussion. I am just wondering how much of a benefit people will get out of P2W TL compared to casual F2P Players, who also want to do some PvP. The PvE side of the game doesn't concern me at all, because i don't care anybody P2W in PvE against me, but the PvP side sounds really concerning.
@brettlewis2900
Ай бұрын
It will die like most games do after 6 month to a year. All the f2p players will move on to something else and all the p2w players will stick around to beat up on one another because they have so much time+money invested into the game they can't justify quiting until the game has nothing left to offer. It sucks that this is the path most mmos take now instead of ensuring a wide players base loves the base game and wants to keep playing so in turn they buy battle passes/skins/etc. They much rather take a chance on forcing a smaller % of players to spend major money to be on top and they do this knowing whales will always exist.
@ShinmotoGaming
Ай бұрын
@@brettlewis2900 Yeah, that's what i am thinking myself. Obviously this path makes them more money, because otherwise they wouldn't even be thinking about going this way, but we will see. To me it's just the PvP that makes a game fun, so if i either have to grind too much to enjoy PvP - which i am not sure about at this point, because of the PvP Events - or fall behind too much, because people swiping, i won't stay for long.
@FelixJMK
Ай бұрын
I think you are right -.- At least on the korean servers, this applies. Now it remains to be seen how the western servers will go
@boon6848
Ай бұрын
this is why i stopped playing hyperboost, i dont want to grind and feel burn out once the global releases. sht they should just give back subscription base games.
@blacklord3212
Ай бұрын
you know what's sad ? there are players who justify everything about this system , saying if you don't like it don't use it or don't play lol , the same fucking mentality of a lost ark player many of them who kept saying these words until it reached this state , honestly if the mentality of players in this game will be the same then it is doomed before it is even released and they can enjoy the game alone with their guild members that's all lol , giving strong feedback about these stupid systems so NCsoft can improve it and listen to us is so important for a healthy game for casuals and elite players , like we all agree , a game is never balanced about the top 1% or whales , you always look at casuals because those are the main population of the game , with challenging content of course for the elite players , but don't make me play everyday for 8 hours for weeks and months then expect players to not get burnt out ....
@DeityVengy
Ай бұрын
its because its the only game theyre good at and they got heavy sunk-cost syndrome. they can enjoy their 5k pop game lol
@DaBroughtHD
Ай бұрын
I am still a very big believer that taking the P2W out of the game and charging a 30 euro minimum subscription fee is the only viable option for a live service game in 2024. Pay to play is the way to go, not free to play masked as a total cash grab. It hurts my soul to see such a beautiful game be a dead on arrival just because of misunderstanding Global markets. But yeah, it is NCSoft after all. edit. How do you almost have 1000 usd in Lucent lol?
@CorlaxCory
27 күн бұрын
Seriously I wish it was just a damn sub…
@DaBroughtHD
27 күн бұрын
@@CorlaxCory It seems very unlikely going by the fact that they recently appointed the ex-CEO of Pearl Abyss NA for the new NCSOFT NA branch...
@DaBroughtHD
25 күн бұрын
@@CorlaxCory Fun facts: today I found out that the Public Investment Fund of Saudi-Arabia acquired a 9,6% stake in NCSoft as of 2022, which is the 2nd highest stake after the co-founder who holds 11,97%. The National pension service of Korea holds an additional 6,298% stake. A total of 18% of the developer's shares are held by economies, not even private firms. In 2024, the new co-ceo, Byungmoo Park, joined the ranks as well, previously the head of a private equity firm, VIG partners. As icing on the cake, NCsoft decided to restructure and add an American branch to their structures with a newly appointed CEO, Jeonghee Jin, the now ex-CEO of Pearl Abyss, the company behind BDO. This leads me to believe that the game will last because it has to, NCSoft has spent too much money and too many shareholders are at stake in this corporate shitfest. Coincidentally, P2W will never disappear from any games made by NCSoft due to the costs involved with making these games and the stakeholder's incentives to do better than break even. Thank you for reading my essay.
@DaBroughtHD
25 күн бұрын
@@CorlaxCory @CorlaxCory Fun facts: today I found out that the Public Investment Fund of Saudi-Arabia acquired a 9,6% stake in NCSoft as of 2022, which is the 2nd highest stake after the co-founder who holds 11,97%. The National pension service of Korea holds an additional 6,298% stake. A total of 18% of the developer's shares are held by economies, not even private firms. In 2024, the new co-ceo, Byungmoo Park, joined the ranks as well, previously the head of a private equity firm, VIG partners. As icing on the cake, NCsoft decided to restructure and add an American branch to their structures with a newly appointed CEO, Jeonghee Jin, the now ex-CEO of Pearl Abyss, which is the company behind BDO. This leads me to believe that the game will last because it has to, NCSoft has spent too much money and too many shareholders are at stake in this corporate shitfest. Coincidentally, P2W will never disappear from any games made by NCSoft due to the costs involved with making these games and the stakeholder's incentives to do better than break even. We are coming closer to 1/5 shares being held by public investment funds from Saudi-Arabia and South-Korea than we are to 1/6, that's just abysmal. Thank you for reading my essay, I am in shambles and in absolute dismay to my own discoveries.
@Xhotic
22 күн бұрын
This better be the reason it got delayed, these new systems and life skills, M+ dungeons better be in the game DAY ONE on Oct 1st.... im hyped for the game and i hope Amazon brings these features fast so we can keep up with the KR servers and were not behind like a Lost Ark situation...
@spriggy5176
Ай бұрын
I want to love this game, so many ups and downs, not sure where i'll land on launch.
@Arkades9
Ай бұрын
Yeah, I'm feeling the same way. Unless AGS makes huge changes for the initial release here (which we know they won't) I'm probably out.
@eipebpeax
Ай бұрын
It is clear that they want to revamp to make it more P2W for koreea server in order to get more players there, but will be not good for west servers
@paintspot1509
Ай бұрын
They know they won't get any more players. They need to milk the few players they have because the game is dead
@irzanu
Ай бұрын
Hey Kanon, Quick question: When talking about events at the end, with them giving one rune vs doing dungeons that give multiple, does the system that calculates rune level increases do it per roll or per rune? For example, for dungeons, you said that it gives 30-50 runes. Does the system calculate rune level increases for each rune in that stack, or does it roll once to see if your rune level went higher and then rewards you with those 30-50 runes of that level? Asking because if the rune level is calculated once, and you get the full stack at the increased level, then for a daily grind session, you want to do as many events that reward 1 rune, so you can roll for the rune level increase and then, at the end of the day, you do one dungeon run to try to increase it one more time. If its the opposite, then I don-t see why levels 15-25 would take a long time, since if you're getting 30-50 runes, and each rune has a 65% chance to increase your level, you should be at lvl 25 rune level in no time, with about 2 dungeon runs. Makes sense?
@Draethar
Ай бұрын
Yeah enjoy it while you can Kanon. That level of P2W is repulsive. It’ll be dead soon.
@vilgefortz9816
Ай бұрын
I remember when in MMORPGs if you wanted an upgrade you killed some mobs and they dropped you an item that was better than your previous item.
@Paolini_18
Ай бұрын
The only thing that matters is how fun and engaging the endgame daily/weekly loop is. People cry all day about p2w but if the game is good everyone will play
@dan1991woopwoop
Ай бұрын
It is good. Best MMO iv tried in a while tbf
@darkohboy9648
Ай бұрын
@@dan1991woopwoop only if you a pvp player pve content is super limited
@Endaethia
Ай бұрын
If the company engages p2w a lot, then this will game will end up the same as the other mmo games that lost their reputation very fast
@baska-
Ай бұрын
I'll come back to this comment in 12 months and say "this comment didn't age well".
@dan1991woopwoop
Ай бұрын
@@darkohboy9648 i am a pve player. Ur welcome for all the healz 😉 its not even a year old and its got more PvE than alot of MMO's that have been out way longer. But yes the main part of the game is the endgame PvP.
@cali4806
19 күн бұрын
Bro just make it a subscription system and make everything grindable.
@F4cebreaker
Ай бұрын
Hey, Kanon! Can you please enlighten me if weapon masteries works when you have the weapon selected as your secondary? For example as SnA+GS do I need to manually switch to GS when using GS skills in order to get GS masteries to work (+100 heavy strike for example) and vice versa, or does it switch masteries automatically when you use skills?
@yexiu5649
Ай бұрын
Ill be honest, this is a big kick in the nuts. I hope NCsoft and AGS do something about this. I really want to go full ham on this mmorpg. But allowing players to go so far ahead with money is so bad. Lke Kanon mentioned, there is some p2w that im ok with cause its not a big deal to a certain degree but this is just too much.
@romaroalte2645
Ай бұрын
Lol, u probably haven't played Lineage 2 and Lineage 2 Classic
@nacari0
Ай бұрын
Well this was a surprise, and kinda killed the vibe for me. Thanks for the headsup. Dont rly like the overly focus on having to grind dungs at endgame for runes.
@DeityVengy
Ай бұрын
this game too mid to be this grindy tbh
@GrinsGrave
Ай бұрын
LMFAO, it’s cute to see how many are upset and surprised by this, like we all didn’t know this was going to happen, This is NCSoft it’s what they do lol. THEY DONT GIVE A SHIT.
@imSkrap
Ай бұрын
I wish bigger games like TL would look at Hypixel Skyblock and get ideas from there in terms of PvE content because my god could this game be S tier if it just had more stuff to grind that isn’t just boss fights or dungeons/pvp but imagine like fishing and getting specific gear for fishing and having a chance to fish up boss creatures with some ultra rare drops
@byrdfeathers3552
Ай бұрын
Pay to win dogshit. It’s a shame because I really enjoyed the beta, game had a lot of potential.
@Inovalis
Ай бұрын
Rune system is garbage
@chowizard3759
Ай бұрын
Hammers have been patched already. No further increase after failure. They're also refunding players who already used hammers on the previous increased cost failure mechanic. thats a W imo.
@coldbreezeproductions
26 күн бұрын
Copium, failing to upgrade don't belong in games.
@chowizard3759
25 күн бұрын
@@coldbreezeproductions lol tell that to BDO, MapleStory, Aion, Lineage II, lost ark, Ragnarok Online...
@CorlaxCory
27 күн бұрын
I think there’s so much speculation but we really don’t know how NA will be implemented until it comes out for sure
@AndrewBlackForMusic
Ай бұрын
game is PVP oriented, right? Well if so, i don't care if the game is p2w or not, i'll play for a week or two and leave the game, not fan of pvp focused MMOs
@silas232003
Ай бұрын
I'm still going to play if the game if it is fun - however for those who do not have disposable money - unfortunate.
@ZWatchDog
Ай бұрын
Really hope that the powers that be listen to you, mate. As a game designer myself i can say that you have hit the sweet spot with your solutions. It's all about availability. Yes, infinite, endless loops are the cope out. However, wrecking their hourly activities in the process is not smart. They just need to use those same activities to fuel their systems and by extension F2P players. Really hope they listen to your experience and opinions as a professional gamer. As always, great video, mate! ❤
@KanonXO
Ай бұрын
Thank you so much! #respect to all game designers out there
@Ash-2449
Ай бұрын
So you actually have to play the game instead of doing highest dungeons a few times a week to reach max bis perfect gear? Good system, this isnt wow thankfully where there's no reason to play 90% of the game and just raidlog. Yeah the chances seem pretty low and harsh but that is not as a big deal, especially when it is likely to change but will never become guarantee because no, you are not meant to be bis month 1
@paintspot1509
Ай бұрын
Not really, you just swipe
@Ryukotsu22
Ай бұрын
Main problem is, this basically was a *War Game / Purely PvP* and people tend to spend more to be ahead on these games, which does not work well in the West, and they are trying to dress it up as an MMORPG, which people can spot a mile away now days.
@blue_eyez_beats356
Ай бұрын
Ik stil using my t1 maxed out gear on 3500 cp killing tier 2 people
@jacsad
14 күн бұрын
ashes of creation is my last hope... for mmorpg anyone know how much will cost to max everything ? if its cost about 300$ im ok with that but if its like diablo immortal that u can spend unlimited money for unmlimted power its really bad
@rafal2903
Ай бұрын
I don’t understand companies. I prefer 5 happy costumers each one spending 10$, than a single guy spending 50$. If companies wants adoption, they must be smart at pricing. I will pass this game. I prefer a 80$ bucks game with everything included than this crap.
@AonyjsViolmlar05
Ай бұрын
As long there are people tolerating this type of p2w game companies will keep releasing this kind of game.
@loaderboter3026
29 күн бұрын
So. This means byebye to f2p pvp. An additional problem is reasonable playtime. Such a rune system forces you to grind the runes because a player that has them will definitely outperform you easily. Now combine importance + playtime and yiu get players not participating in pvp like in bdo (about 10 people pvp in bdo properly). Second problem: throne and liberty is focused on pvp
@C4ptainInsanity-pm5ge
24 күн бұрын
NCSoft developed Lineage II,so why people "didn't expect" p2w?
@Gothfel666
Ай бұрын
Damn bro, Kanon cooked 🔥🔥 hopefully they listen bruhhh, the game really has a lot of potential...
@YonexCC
Ай бұрын
Although I have 0 intentions to swipe in this game, but intend to play casually, more-so to enjoy the PvE content and smaller scale PvP fights, watching this makes me not even want to commit any time. Lowkey will probably be back on LA for T4 drop. Ngl but have slowly been doing a few raids here and there
@jimmyBG93
Ай бұрын
Finally an honest and realistic review, good job Kanon. Can somebody show this video to that simping noob Society Of Gaming, please?
@sebastienammirati8161
Ай бұрын
I was wondering about Pvp. Do you know if there is or will be a PvP rank system? Ranking 1 v 1, Ranking 3 v 3, having rewards based on your rank, and will you be able to Pvp based on your equipment Tier etc.? I'm not sure about the future of Pvp in the game? Thanks again for your video!
@mecpie
Ай бұрын
It's non stop pvp man play on Korea u don't need Korean ID anymore and see yourself 🤣 everywhere u go u pvp most of the Time there is arena aswell
@mecpie
Ай бұрын
But it's all about gear you won't do shit against someone whit better gear like nothing nada 👀
@sebastienammirati8161
Ай бұрын
@@mecpie Hey Thank you Mecpie for your reply, I'm playing FFXIV right now but the PVP is pretty awful, I kinda miss the Pvp in WoW (BG, Arena etc.) you know with objectives, and the wild PvP of L2. I pre-ordered T&L but I was wondering if the Pvp is good? Ranking, Objectives, Rewards etc.
@xSirius01
Ай бұрын
Great F. video 🔥 The way you explained the system is just on point, well done sir! And thanks once again!
@layze72
Ай бұрын
P2W stuff aside, why are there so many systems in this game? Are they purposely trying to confuse players to get them to just swipe? The unnecessary complexity and bloat in this game is insane
@HideFromJesus
Ай бұрын
So the korean patch is out. And they changed the rune system with the cost increase.they will also compensate all hammers “lost” during the time of the first patch and tommorow 7th of august i think.
@user-dy6lv1tl4x
Ай бұрын
now the question is, as a f2p player, when you hit the hard cap, and you saw a hard cap p2w player, can he one hit you? or that depends on his skills? sometimes p2w players are dumbasses that cnt play properly, f2p players sometimes are a diff breed and they are good with pvp.
@HMHS8
Ай бұрын
what is the % dmg difference between perfect runes and traits and f2p with random traits / runes? If its less than 30% then i could care less. I wont be able to play 16h+ a day like some HC guilds anyway, and being able to play more than others is p2win too.
@mrfish229
Ай бұрын
Idk the damage but perfect runes can give you 3 extra stat points and 3%attack speed PER ITEM. That's 36 extra stat points and 36% attack speed, do the math
@ifeawosika966
Ай бұрын
@@mrfish229 normal player will be deleted before they do 1 skill
@elentb2261
Ай бұрын
@@ifeawosika966have u play kr endgame ? Not fkin hyperboost
@dudufera77
Ай бұрын
So it's just like lost ark, to progress you just need to play the game, while people who pay will progress faster. The difference is you don't need alts in TL, so the process will fell less grindy
@friendlyfire9788
29 күн бұрын
dude all these crazy changes before us westies get the game!?
@WadWad
Ай бұрын
What a surprise... NC releasing a game, with minimal P2W, only them to add it fully a month later. That's just Scumsoft, legit 0 surprise. Did it with Aion classic, Linage 2, etc etc
@kamodarii9527
Ай бұрын
Bro am i the only one who dont see a problem? As long as rune system is not p2w that means i can still catch up. A casual player maybe not but a hardcore F2p player def will catch up to those wales.
@iahobbies6411
Ай бұрын
looks like they have already mad changes to this system. Rune socket reset cost is now a fixed number.
@baska-
Ай бұрын
I like the fact that Kanon isn't a shill. You like the game but you know it's P2W trash without player trading. Such potential wasted, very sad.
@MrPugWings
Ай бұрын
Hope the devs hear
@buildbroadcore
Ай бұрын
Great breakdown, great jobs explaining it all. With that being said I will be skipping this game. I love MMOs but I don't have time for this type of math to play a game. I hope this game does well and it fills someone's itch for a new MMO
@CalgarGTX
Ай бұрын
I despise all forms of gacha rng type enhance chances 'progression' for the sole reason my luck with those systems is always terrible or near zero success. The mmo I currently main suffers from this from just gear drop chances to enhance/augment rolls with zero pity/failsafes and despite being immensely rich ingame money wise and playing with some of the best players on that server I'm always half a step to a step behind due to being brick-walled by these 'progression' systems. Doesn't matter what amount of 'effort' or time I put in can be 10x the next guy and I still end up with worse gear. Having p2w (or rather p2roll again and fail anyway in my case) doesn't make it any better obviously. That is by far the biggest L I've heard for T&L since I follow whats happening around it, and objectively means I need to cross off the game from my radar since I'll never have BIS gear in it. And not about to go get farmed in pvp by people who have the luck or infinite wallets to make up for it.
@blacksparkss21
29 күн бұрын
I could not care less for NCsoft and their games, if I want to feel the P2W and annoyance ,I would rather play Black Desert Online.
@aleksandarveljkovic8553
Ай бұрын
I am in Korea server right now,preparing for Eu but there are big problems,if you intend to play solo forget and dont start game,you can just go mm dungeons and drop rate is terrible,even if you get purple it will not be for your build,and if you are not in a strong active guild forget about farming important stuff
@gudadryckful
Ай бұрын
It’s that bad if you’re not in an active guild?
@jackynikola
Ай бұрын
@@gudadryckful Worst than bad. Its imposible. In the sense you will have hard time. And you will quit most likely in 1-2 weeks
@haythamelsady859
Ай бұрын
True that ... And good guilds chose only ppl who pay 😢😅
@sythelic
Ай бұрын
this is just like lost ark getting a static party for raids... omg here we go again with the toxic environment
@zelasd3125
Ай бұрын
This video has convinced me to not bother with T&L - it's pretty obvious where this all is going and in 1-2 years from now you will have another half dozen such systems, half of which you will be able to swipe up for even more snowballing. Not interested.
@Dawillisb
Ай бұрын
Im ok with the new P2W. No one has to pay real money and the company wants to make money. Hook the whales and f2p players get a fun game for 1-2 months.
@Paisen4321
28 күн бұрын
Its sad that most new mmorpg games are just a money grab disguised as an mmorpg.
@Ferog51
27 күн бұрын
in guild wars you can buy literal gold from the store but its not pay to win why cant a new game be like guild wars 2
@AlexDuKaNaa
Ай бұрын
Dynamic events was what made Throne and liberty stand out for me...
@johnnyderpplays
20 күн бұрын
Ughh guild wars 2 from 14 years ago?
@raunokalda3568
Ай бұрын
It really comes down to if NCsoft wants this game to succeed or not. its that simple, if they are going to go hard on the pay to win and increase how long it will take FTP players reach the power cap then this game will die very fast. if they think that can sustain and keep running the game for years on the wallets of P2W players then they are delusional. 90% of people are not going to spend money on the game and that is a fact. i mean just make a subscription model and make the game fun .. the reason people don't want to play a sub to games is because MOST OF TEHM SUCK... so make a good fun game and people are willing to pay that monthly sub, stop creating games with stupid systems people can pay to get out of... make a game with equal progression for everybody and add a monthly sub.
@nomercy1310
Ай бұрын
Good thet I buy the game for 40 dollars not 100 so I can delete it when it comes out or can I refunde my money
@vinceatos6154
Ай бұрын
any link for the sheet ncsoft gave out?
@Gemineyee22
23 күн бұрын
Well this was the last game that was gonna keep me gaming but I officially retire.
@jacsad
14 күн бұрын
wait for ashes of creation
@Gemineyee22
13 күн бұрын
@@jacsad yea I’m hoping my PC can run it. I’m hopeful 🤞
@epicexx5114
Ай бұрын
Once the western KZitemrs see this predatory system combined with the runes and everything else the game WILL be dead before it even gets started.. 1000%
@zenoran
Ай бұрын
Honestly, NA content creators already trashed it high and low based on the beta. Everyone was kinda hanging on a thread hoping the new changes would redeem that bad impression. While the combat changes are nice, increasing the p2w is just making it even less likely people will take the game seriously enough to give it another shot.
@coreymj78
Ай бұрын
Wrong. A F2P game has to support itself somehow and the whales who spend thousands of dollars will suck compared to the no-lifer mamma's boy 24-7 F2P anyway. The people who actually spend a lot of real life money on this game will be the significant minority. Lots of people still defending the game bro. It's a good game. and AGS will be making changes like they have already to the biz model for the west. No doubt. You watch. Also, watch how many people still flock to this game because good MMOs are hard to come by these days. When AOC launches, everyone will move to that and THEN the game will be dead, but it will take a year or two.
@RandomUserYTisFailing
Ай бұрын
@@coreymj78 Ah yes that's why Lost Ark is doing so well
@Afterhours.101
Ай бұрын
Cosmetics. Make ur money with skins and morphs. Not this shit.
@paintspot1509
Ай бұрын
@@coreymj78are you talking nonsense here as well...
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