Watch as John Edwards @ Costa Mesa R&D Automotive Machine Shop explains how to machine the for larger oil ring grooves on automotive pistons. Be sure to 'Click' and SUBSCRIBE.
I worked at TRW pistons in Cleveland for 25 years. I used to repair pistons that were in need of ring groove repair from a broken/chipped groove tool when they were being made. I did them on an old Sunstrand lathe, however we never had the groove tool bolted solidly to the fixture as you have here. We used the tool blocks the Acme-Gridley's used when they we first cut, and left the groove tool in there snugged up just to the point it couldn't move. You could slide it in and out, we had a stop block at the back of the tool block that kept it so the diameter (size) was consistent. It gave is best flatness, runout, and radial tilt readings when making repairs such as these over using a solid mount tool as you have here....where's the cutting lube? you didn't use any? at TRW we always put a dab of oil on the tool when making such repairs. don't be afraid to try different tooling set-ups.
@scotttipps8155
6 жыл бұрын
david shipe hes not at TRW Is he? Dont need freaking lube to widen and deepen a groove in cast aluminum. Go away with your plant bullcrap you never worked there.
@normcameron2316
9 жыл бұрын
I love the "Hook Jaws" on your lathe. Those are great. In the "Good Old Days" before I was born ring groove machining was popular to square up a worn groove [yes they do wear] and there were machines just for doing that job and adding a spacer/ shim to fill the groove. I did it several times on a regular lathe to repair pistons from CAT pup engines [the small gas engine used to start the large diesel] for which parts were unavailable. I would machine the ring groove out to fit the standard ring plus the spacer [available from Hastings], put the spacer on top so it didn't take the load and call it good. I would sleeve the block and finish it to less than standard to fit the worn piston and deck the top of the block to clean it up. It looked and worked great.
@ghettobikelife8833
5 жыл бұрын
Norm Cameron is the spacer split at one point like the ring and spring loaded inwards, I’m wondering how you got it on. Think I’ve seen steel ring land inserts on heavy duty pistons but thought it was part of the casting/forging
@skylinefever
4 жыл бұрын
@@ghettobikelife8833 Some steel inserts are cast into the piston, and some steel inserts clamp on like reverse piston rings. Such reverse inserts aren't just used to install stock size rings on damaged pistons. Total Seal makes the same kind of insert so that you can run modern narrow rings on old fashioned stock or stock replacement pistons.
@wrxsavvy
11 жыл бұрын
I cant explain the feeling i have but Im so interested in this stuff. Never did it,probably never will, but its amazing to see you work John. I wish I had 1/1000 ( I used a dial meter :)) of your knowledge. You are a true blessing.
@AutomotiveAficionado
12 жыл бұрын
Great job as always john!!
@eformance
11 жыл бұрын
Pistons are usually round in the ring land and ovoid in the skirt. This is to compensate for the shape and thickness of the material. You can measure the ring land directly and indicate roundness and concentricity.
@unclesquirrel6951
3 жыл бұрын
Rest In Peace John
@JPilot2
12 жыл бұрын
"Dyno-mite!" Thank you, John! ^_^
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
When you run the lathe backwards, the cut-off cutter will pop-up and away from the part instead of getting jammed up and causing damage. It just makes sense to me. I've broken so many tools running in forward, I can't just can't tell'ya.
@tiagobaracho
12 жыл бұрын
Hi john!..I was wondering...when you mill the piston ring groove deeper and wider for this new ring... wouldn´t be possible to be weaking the structure of the piston ?I mean, the internal walls will be thinner than was before ? Or there is yet a safe measure of material in this point that it would not influence the structural strength of the piston ? I admire a lot your videos.. i learn so much !!!! I am not a professional, just a enthusiastic for mechanics. Keep up the nice videos !
@MrSlowestD16
12 жыл бұрын
Gotcha, thx!! I wasn't sure, it's hard to tell the movement on cam.
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
I moved the carriage over and cut at the same depth, quite simple.
@MrSlowestD16
12 жыл бұрын
KZitem's reply button is being weird, but I mean at 6:58 when you say "now we gotta go over and catch the other side" - I assumed you were cutting the rest of the groove (top part) to that new depth? Did you just slide up from that new depth up to where you started the groove until you hit the top of the groove?
@UZI9MMAUTO
5 жыл бұрын
I used to mod the piss out of 2 cycle engine pistons this way. BIG change to power!
@MrSlowestD16
12 жыл бұрын
I'm a bit confused on how you increased the radial depth without hitting the sidewalls and expanding the thickness of it. Did you just eye-ball it or did you measure the tool from the top at stop to how far down the piston you cut it?
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
Watch the video again and see where I was measuring the depth with a vernier caliper. I thought I made it pretty clear????
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
No, they tend to have higher wall tension.
@colt4547
12 жыл бұрын
Hello Mr Edwards, I have enjoyed your videos for a while now. Thank you for sharing with us. I was also wondering why you chose to run the lathe backwards?
@futten3230
12 жыл бұрын
ima gonna have to try that next time
@zapwatt
12 жыл бұрын
John, I'm not going to ask you why you ran in reverse because people beat me to it but I would ask if there's a reason why you used a parting tool instead of a groove tool. Whenever I have a parting tool it is angled on the end and not good for making grooves need bottoms perpendicular to the X-axis. Seems like you would have to grind the end of your cutoff tool just to use it for this application.
@tilt1981
12 жыл бұрын
Just wondering... is there any benefit to running thicker oil rings?
@SETHHIKARU
12 жыл бұрын
Hey John, been enjoying your videos for quite a while now. Was wondering what you would possibly recommend for putting in a Fiat X 1/9 for an engine swap. I'm looking at a K20A at the moment, but not sure anymore. Looking for something that will take a turbo and have insane acceleration and speeds. I may be looking at getting the engine done with you since you have so much knowledge on Fiats!
@futten3230
12 жыл бұрын
maybe stuid question but why dod you have the cutter upside down and running the machine clockwise?
@kisoia
12 жыл бұрын
That is a nice chuck for holding the piston, did you make the jaws for that?
@blkcoupequattro
11 жыл бұрын
Those are some big rings for such a small engine, I suspect the rings that where previously installed were inferior reason for their I un-availability.
@compucar03
12 жыл бұрын
How do you know that its the manufacturing of the piston and not roun out of the check? Also measuring it on a vblocks outside of the lathe? I am gonna run out mt my garage and check mine in a minute.
@Chlorate299
12 жыл бұрын
Surprised you can't get rings for that engine anymore, but those big oil rings should do nicely.
@spike6095
7 жыл бұрын
Can you repair a cast iron piston head from an old hit miss engine..the top of the piston has 2 big hole's in it. the piston is 4 3/4 inches wide
@killman1971
12 жыл бұрын
Do you have to drill larger oil return holes as a result of using larger oil control rings?
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
First of all, your question is kind of confusing to read - syntax. A $4k turbo is overly expensive. My crystal ball is broken and I'm not able to see what engine your are asking about. Blow up? All engines will blow up at some point if too much boost is applied. I've never seen a 'forged head', post a video of that.
@pyro8818ak47
12 жыл бұрын
This doesnt weaken the structure of the sidewall of the piston???
@SETHHIKARU
12 жыл бұрын
How much power could I pull from the block and could I put oh say, a $4k turbo out of it and not blow it up? I'm looking at a forged head.
@futten3230
12 жыл бұрын
cute little pistons :P
@michaelovitch
12 жыл бұрын
What are the grooves on the skirt made for please ? to keep oil ?
@muhammadsiraj978
7 жыл бұрын
Any suggestion for removing chip which are left in groove after the operation and minimizing them during operation - via YTPak(.com)
@panther105
6 жыл бұрын
Cutting/cooling oil not needed?
@rickh633
9 жыл бұрын
As a machinist this is painful to watch. Get a .187 carbide. relief the sides, make the tip and top shape like a low u. pour the cutting fluid to it at high rpms. 1 pass and its perfect top and bottom
@MrShobar
8 жыл бұрын
+Rick H If you had written a few authoritative books, and run a successful business, as John has, then I might be inclined to believe you.
@Ujammer2010
8 жыл бұрын
John's way is very good, but Rick's way is better for many reasons. Trust the machinist in this case.
@rickh633
8 жыл бұрын
I do own a machine shop and have for 35 years . He wrote a book? I hope its not about machining.
@muhammadsiraj978
7 жыл бұрын
+Rick H can u give any tip of removing chips from groove after operation as some of them still left which create extra work in mass production - via YTPak(.com)
@PhilsProjects
8 жыл бұрын
do the oil holes have to be re-drilled flush to the bottom ring? would oil build up otherwise?
@Ujammer2010
8 жыл бұрын
The oil drain back holes can be in the center of the groove or even half way split into the bottom wall of the oil ring. It doesn't really matter. The oil will fill up into the groove and drain back into the engine whether centered or split. You don't however want them to touch the top of the oil ring groove. That could allow oil to get past the oil ring and cause a smoking problem.
@pyro8818ak47
12 жыл бұрын
Nevermind i saw at the end of the video how thick the inside is
@Guy-qv2hb
Жыл бұрын
You still in business ? I have an rc piston that I need to make the groove wider
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
Easier on the tool bit and less chance of catastrophic damage.
@Levisnteeshirt1
9 жыл бұрын
have a friend with some SB2 sbc pistons that have really small compression rings ,read , very expensive ,, I gotta believe they could be cut for a normal 1.5mm ring or similar ,,, what say u ?
@fiatnutz
9 жыл бұрын
Levisnteeshirt1 Why would you want thicker rings? The just create more drag on the cylinder walls. The whole idea behind them it to reduce friction. Run what you got, but thinner rings do increase power levels. I'm looking at 0,80 top rings for my next set of pistons on the Fiat, with 1,2 and 2,8 oil control rings. Maybe even skipping the second ring altogether. Ring tension is one of the villans that we face the most n high performance engine. Just my 5 cents worth, take it for what it is. Ya gotta pay to play with the big dogs... JE...
@Levisnteeshirt1
9 жыл бұрын
.030 nascar rings ,, these pistons are suppose to be thrown away ,, a set landed in my buddies shop ,, 189.00 for rings each piston ,, any slack in the stock clearance and the ring deflects and wont seal ,, 500 miles n toss em
@Levisnteeshirt1
9 жыл бұрын
fiatnutz , the dern things look like they're in great shape ,, they went back in the engine ,,, 421 SB2 super late model dirt motor ,, uses just a lil bit of oil , but its running fine
@Levisnteeshirt1
9 жыл бұрын
Levisnteeshirt1 I think he found a set of rings for em for around 1200.00
@MrHeadshot1982
12 жыл бұрын
like you,er vids and you,re them song.
@KohalaIronWorksCase
10 жыл бұрын
Pays to have a lathe n your auto shop..."just in case..."
@milkmanpeter
8 жыл бұрын
do u need to drill more oil holes
@Ujammer2010
8 жыл бұрын
Only if you want to drain off more oil.
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
No problem, there is plenty of meat on the back side.
@milkmanpeter
8 жыл бұрын
or make holes biger
@Ujammer2010
8 жыл бұрын
Only if you want to drain off more oil.
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
Dude, you're making this way more complicated then it really is. The manufacturing of what exactly? My crystal ball got dropped last week so I can exactly guess what you are asking, plus my turban is at the cleaners. Ha.... Restate your question so I know specifically what you are asking about. I know I get pissy about spelling and syntax, but I'm old school and don't understand &^%^(&Q&$(* speak.
@fiatnutz
12 жыл бұрын
Just grind your tool and off you go, this isn't rocket science - just good machining practices. Just takes practice, let's see I've had over 45 years of practice so far. Don't be affraid to try different tooling set-ups.
@tmedhat
12 жыл бұрын
the machine is turning the wrong way
@MrGGPRI
6 жыл бұрын
that's because the tool cutting edge is on the bottom so lathe turns CW; machinist preference.
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