First off, I need to say that 90% of my freight cars are equipped with Micro Trains trucks and couplers. But, I have some old, ('69 and '70's) MRC freight cars, with factory trucks with metal wheelsets, and they are by far, the best rolling freight cars I own. I've had 'em for over 50 years, cleaned the wheels once, and they're still running perfectly. never derail, and stay clean. I wish all my freight cars ran as well. Almost every time I see MRC freight cars come up for sale, I buy 'em up, and they all perform the same. I've never regretted the decision to pick up more. Thanks for your observations and opinions. I agree with you 100%.
@brianpagemodeltrains
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, whatever works best for you, I say stick with it!
@fbrailroad4628
3 жыл бұрын
I think you said it all. Thanks for sharing, David
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, F & B!
@melvinfackler8282
3 жыл бұрын
Even tho almost midnite I felt compelled to watch. I needed a laugh and you didn't disappoint me. But like you, I run both types of wheels. My opinion, both need cleaning, and yes ,plastic runs well. But since I don''t care for made up work, I run them as they come out of their case.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Melvin! Yeah, I'm a big supporter of doing what you want with your own stuff!
@seanspennywisemiserrr
3 жыл бұрын
Great comparison Brian. Now you have me thinking my decision to stay away from plastic wheels. This will keep me up tonight. Thanks lol. Sean.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry Sean - LOL! No, the point is to use whatever you are most comfortable with.
@bkdexter79
2 жыл бұрын
I am very fond of Micro-Trains plastic wheels. They sound is quiet, but they run soo smooth.
@brianpagemodeltrains
2 жыл бұрын
I agree, but I also have metal wheels, so it's whatever you like!
@jamesburba1995
2 жыл бұрын
Brian, I completely concur with your assessment of plastic vs, metal wheelsets. I have over 200 freight cars, and I'm about 2/3 done with the conversion process. I've found, my locomotives, after conversion, can pull over 20% more freight cars, starting with the same consist, than they were able to prior to the conversion to MT trucks and couplers. Just a little more validation to your conclusions. The only way to eliminate 'cruddy' wheels, is to invent, and run, Maglev trains !
@brianpagemodeltrains
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I caught a lot of flak on this one, which I knew I would. But the point was, use whatever you want!
@jamesburba1995
2 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains absotively, posilutely !
@DuncSargentsKarstValleyRR
3 жыл бұрын
Yep, that's a good conclusion.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, my whole point was use whatever you like!
@SchuylkillRiverValley
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting observations Brian. There are pros/cons for both options. I fully agree with your conclusion - do what you like with your railroad. But, both Steve C & Roy E have very valid points as well. I'm sure you knew that you weren't going to end this debate - it'll never end!
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Very true, John! My point of this was use what you want, there's no right or wrong. My layout is so small, I could use the old crappy trucks and it wouldn't make much of a difference. It's true, it will never end, but a good debate can be good conversation as well!
@ModelTrainOutsider
3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant discussed and demonstrated. Excellent video and well presented! Nice job. I never worried about it in HO.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Anthony! That was my point, if the wheels work ok, use what you want.
@irenepage9775
3 жыл бұрын
I hope this post ends up on here because my last post went to Nederland for right now. I agree with you 💯% that it is a personal preference and I'm glad that you don't care either way. This means to me we can spend more on layout which makes me happy. I'm more about the fun of the hobby than the realism. Like always loved your video and I got a really good laugh with your intro. Again I say remember it's a personal preference! Great job on the video and I love you 💕
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks sweetie! That's what it's all about, use what works best for you!
@HumancityJunction
3 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains Get a room you two!!
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Heath, get out of our room!!
@Chris-BognorRegis
2 жыл бұрын
C'mon Brian, I was just taking a slurp of tea when you showed up like that, nearly came out of my nose LOL. Over this side of the pond in N & HO gauge we tend to go for metal wheels. They seem run more freely, tend to stay clean longer than plastic although all wheels as you said will pick up dirt, and they clean up easier. All our locomotives and rolling stock tend to be metal wheel. Some company's who put out kits you put together tend to come with plastic wheels but only I think to keep the cost down. We then simply change them to metal. Our goods wagons or as you call them freight cars in the period I cover 1950's are so small and light I have to put weights in them so they can at least have half a chance of staying on the track. As my layout is in the loft and we do get extreme temperature variations up there I have to put expansion gaps between track sections to allow for the track to stretch or shrink. Oh I have had some disasters when I did not allow for this. I have a gap of 1mm between each track section and believe me you can hear the clickety-clack as the train runs along, its lovely, brings back fond memories when us poor could afford to travel by rail. Now regarding the cocktail stick test, that might just be down to the coning of the axles. I have not tried these yet as all my stuff is fairly new but I have heard good things about Bearing Reamers which they make for us N Gaugers. They smooth out the imperfections in the coning of the axle bearings. Mate of mine has purchased them and he can now pull a third more in stock after using the Bearing Reamer as it has cut down on the friction and the wheels run better. Also they work with metal and plastic wheels so I am told. To be honest I dont swap mine out either, I leave whatever wheels are on there when I purchase them, unless I start to have issues. If it works dont fiddle with it. Regards Chris
@brianpagemodeltrains
2 жыл бұрын
Lol - Good thing it wasn't soda! I agree with your comments completely, my point was use whatever you like.
@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Brian! Thanks for your assessment of plastic vs. metal wheels. As you may know, I switching from plastic to metal wheels on my layout, but I still have both on my layout, and both work very well. I think good trackwork and the overall weight of the cars is more important. Bottom line (as you noted) is this: Like just about everything in model railroading, whether you use plastic or metal wheels on your layout comes down to a matter of personal preference. ...Roy
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Precisely Roy, thank you! That was the message of the video.
@RayBoebel
3 жыл бұрын
Brian, your videos never disappoint. I love the way you did this and even in HO, I have to agree. Use what you want and can afford, thats it
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
That's right, Ray Thanks!
@davestrains6816
3 жыл бұрын
First of all new sub here, very nice channel. You are correct in saying do what you want. For me its price. While I like the sound of metal wheels, I just don't have the excess money to switch out a bunch of rolling stock. You can buy Micro Trains trucks that are brown that I think look nice. One thing about your test is that the older rolling stock with metal wheels probably needed to have the bearing journal cleaned a little bit. Thanks for sharing. Dave
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
You're probably right about that, Dave, plus the metal wheel trucks I have are really old - But it was just to show that I'm fine with the plastic wheelsets as well as metal, doesn't matter to me as long as they work.
@the3drailroad100
3 жыл бұрын
Good video, but I found the comparison of 40 year old vs new trucks and wheels to be pretty strange. Yes the weight difference is small, but in some cases might be all that is needed to bring a car to proper weight. Another unmentioned advantage is on light cars, metal wheels will lower the center of gravity to help tracking etc… modern metal wheels aren’t usually as wide or have that big a flange as those you have. If you put a modern blma, fox valley, tangent or such wheelset in the same micro trains trucks, my experience is they will out roll plastic every time with an even lower amount of friction and personally I find they stay cleaner. To each his own. Very entertaining and I look forward to seeing your next video my friend.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Yes, it was a "strange" comparison, but as I said before and after, it was only to show why I don't feel the need to swap out my plastic wheels. Thanks for watching!
@FBMRR
3 жыл бұрын
I also have no preference. Great video. Im gonna read all these comments.. i can already see people tossing there chairs across the room. LOL
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
You got that right, Rick!
@cdplatt1965
3 жыл бұрын
Good informative video. Melvin and Steve post are informative as well 👍
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks CDP!
@mrjsanchez1
Жыл бұрын
I have both plastic and metal wheels on my layout, the Micro-trains plastic wheels are excellent performers, there really is no need to change these out, unless you want more clickty clack noise on your trains!, with metal wheels they vary per brand, my favorites where the Fox Valley ones, unfortunately no longer made, the wheels on Trainworx and Bluford Shop, cars are excellent also. BLMA metal wheels have too much drag and do not roll that freely, I have had issues With some Intermountain wheels, being out of gauge or imperfect. The old Model Power Metal wheels were pretty bad, most of the cars would wobble down the track! I like the Micro-trains metal wheels, but they are hard to come by, the Micro-trains wheels used on the 60ft TBOX cars are really super. Just my two cents. I have been following N scale trains since the late 60’s and modeling since around 1984. N scale has come a long way. Enjoyed your video.
@brianpagemodeltrains
Жыл бұрын
I agree = The only reason I bought all the MT trucks was to easily get rid of all my old Rapido couplers.
@Evilminiature
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! new to the hobby and this info is great! New sub from Stockholm Sweden /Victor
@brianpagemodeltrains
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and welcome aboard, Victor! It's always great to have folks in the hobby from around the world!
@hubertuswenig7622
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! I have both metal and plastic wheels, and I am astonished, how good the plastic wheels are actually. I like the sound of the metal wheels though…
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
True! The metal wheels make a nice realistic sound. Go with what works for you!
@stanleym2679
3 жыл бұрын
You put on a great video on the wheels,and I agree ,they both have good and bad points, I do run plastic wheels ,keep of the great work and can’t wait for your nextvideo
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Stanley!
@rdanscale3416
3 жыл бұрын
Brian all i can say to that Wig this my Brother I'm gonna bust a Something but We'll keep it Very Clean and Classy) Dude ya like an older Brother And i thank ya Much for the Shout Out ya Cool and hope to Meet ya someday soon or see that layout of yours Yea... don't Ditch the Wig. Its awesome...
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the idea, Allen, and hopefully we'll get some more people to check out your videos out of curiosity!
@stevechilders2425
3 жыл бұрын
Brian, very well thought out and presented. Here are a few additional comments/points. Noise: While the metal wheels "may" provide for more prototypical sound, the sound level is way higher than prototypical and the plastic wheels provide for a much lower sound level...a point many modelers prefer. Grime collection: Totally concur, metal wheels will also [pick ou crap, just look at locomotives and having to clean their wheels (even though alot of the loco grime is due to micro arching). BUT, metals wheels are much easier to clean and are not as susceptible to damage during cleaning. Friction/rolling. While your demo was a good idea, your methodology was somewhat flawed since you tested the friction/rollability of the entire truck assembly, NOT the true comparison between metal and plastic wheelsets. A better test is on a set decline, from a stop and lift a barrier and see how far the car travels once the decline levels off. Do this first with plastic wheels and then replace just the wheels (not the entire truck) with properly sized metal wheel sets. On my HO cars, without exception, the metal wheeled cars travel MUCH further than the cars did when they had plastic wheels. Now, again I am HO so the larger cars (heavier than N scale) makes the difference far more apparent. BUT, it really may not matter IF, the layout is flat, the trains being run are not excessively long. (btw, there is a tool that can be inserted into the truck pocket to reem the pocket out a little yo let the axles turn easier.....at least for HO. Weight difference: even in HO, the weight difference between plastic and metal wheels are negligible and the cars still need to be properly weighted in other methods. Like you, I have the same conclusion, not an advocating either of the other for other people....just simply attempting to provide facts so people can make their own determination of what is a good fit for themselves.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed Steve, although my test wasn't strictly about the wheelsets, it was more about why I don't feel the need to change them. My metal wheelsets are so old it's no wonder they don't roll very well.
@stevechilders2425
3 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains I whole heartedly agree under your circumstances where extra long trains are not run (and consists can cover for that anyway) nor are there any grades to deal with. I did want to point out the flawed "friction" test though ;)
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for pointing that out Steve. The context of that demonstration was only to show that I don't need to run out to spend money, fixing something that already works. Again, my overall point was to use what you like.
@VojtovySumavskeVlakyCZ
3 жыл бұрын
Good video like and subscribed from Czech Republic 🙂👍👍👍
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for subscribing and watching! It's great knowing the model train community is all around the world.
@VojtovySumavskeVlakyCZ
3 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains you're welcome 🙂
@AlleghenyNorthern
3 жыл бұрын
Metal wheels on metal rails are going to cause a small arch between the two - which would account for the accumulation of "dirt" which is actually a carbon build up. Even though the wheels are isolated so you don't short, you can still arch. Just a possible reason metal wheels could become 'dirtier' than plastic.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Very true, but I don't actually know if either gets dirtier than the other - I guess time will tell. Thanks!
@marioxerxescastelancastro8019
2 жыл бұрын
Wrong. For non-powered cars there can be no arc because there is no current between the wheels and rail. There can be no carbon because the wheel and rail both have no carbon. Do not speak from ignorance unless you want to out yourself as an idiot.
@brendaoliver9107
Жыл бұрын
Brian just ran across you video. While I see your point and definitely agree with you , I must admit that I change ti metal wheels on bot my n and ho scale cars , the weight is there fir but just not as much for n scale . I run on the museum it San Diego and we encourage metal wheels . It will tell you we also recommend to clean your wheels before running as this gets rid of the build up of crude and the cars run better . I was surprised at your test results and aminpressed with the results till I remembered that n scale has one problem as ti axal size some can differ by as much as .o5 of an inch. Which can slow a car or fit to losses ly making a difference too. Try your test again wit micro train trucks and metL wheels. Let me say again I agree with you point of view too. 😉
@brianpagemodeltrains
Жыл бұрын
Hi Jack - I have no problem with that at all, and I still have some cars with metal wheels. My point was that everyone can do with their stuff what they want!
@brendaoliver9107
Жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains you are so right !
@davebnsfnscale4433
3 жыл бұрын
Found through the many years of N scaling,some metal wheelset/truck combinations, Kato for instance, roll far easier,than MT trucks
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I don't have any newer metal wheelsets, so mine are not so good. Thanks Dave!
@ronaldjoyce7374
3 жыл бұрын
Brian, I personally think you should’ve done this comparison in reverse LOL. Your findings make total sense. I’ve changed half of my rolling stock to steel wheels only because I’m probably watching to many videos LOL I just performed the Brian Page test and OMG plastic is smoother, quieter but I do like the sound of “Clickity-Clack, it puts me to sleep 😂😂. I too have about 6 pieces with the old style Bachman and Atlas couplers, they seem to stay together better. Is it me or is it true, they’re GOOD, look funny but they work. Maybe we can change everyone’s minds and go back to the “Good Old Days”. 👍🏻😂 I’ll admit, I do like the prototypical look of the newer style couplers buuut, I’m getting off of your subject of wheels, I think that’s what you were talking about 😱 I’m so confused LOLOLOL
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Nothing to worry about, Ron, the message of my video is to use whatever you like - It's your stuff! I swapped out all my old square Rapido couplers because they don't link up to each other very well, and they look horrendous. But here again, I believe everyone should use what they like.
@SFCRambo60
Жыл бұрын
I had Repedio couplers but they are so old they snap off going around the track, pluse if you have a derailment I have found they will pop out of their socket.
@brianpagemodeltrains
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I got rid of mine not only because of those issues, but also because I didn't like the looks.
@elleryparsons5766
3 жыл бұрын
I have a Combo of Metal and Plastic on my Rolling Stock Eventually I may Change From Plastic to Metal.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Very cool - Thanks for watching!
@SFCRambo60
Жыл бұрын
Have you measured the size of the wheels? The overall length of the axles? The distance in between the flanges? This is what gets me so mad, HO has a tool to burnish the seats of the axle and N scale does not and we pop these wheel sets in and out without thinking of burrs, lengths and size of the wheels, flange, or even lenght.
@brianpagemodeltrains
Жыл бұрын
I can only speak to the plastic wheelsets I have, and they are smooth and fit my Kato track very well.
@SFCRambo60
Жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains I have found the overall length of the axles can put a bind on the trucks pockets.
@wilzdart
3 жыл бұрын
To be honest, you used the old cheap metal wheels in a kadee truck and wondered why the plastic rolled further. Did you mike them?, the old metal wheels. when I converted to kadee years ago I found the old metal wheels where an issue with size in the truck. The new metal wheel sets are manufactured better now than the old metal wheels. Have you weighed the difference between the new metal wheels versus the new metal wheels, the old ones have plastic inserts. I pose a question to you , why did Kadee come out with metal replacement wheels, one answer is their metal wheels have plastic axels. So why run metal wheels. If you want operating signals each car has to have a resister so the detection can see the car clear the block so it can change the signal. I run both on my layout which has an upper and lower level.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comments, Will! Yes, my little experiment was skewed due to using very old Rapido trucks, and that would have been an issue had I been trying to say one is better than the other, but I didn't. Apparently, everyone missed what I said right before and right after the experiment. I clearly stated that it was only to show why I don't feel the need to swap out my plastic wheelsets, not to say one is better than the other. The entire point of the video was to use whatever you like the best.☺
@wilzdart
3 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains did not want you to think I was bashing your video and your thoughts. Yes, I understand you were not taking a side. to me you guys on KZitem spend a lot of time and money creating content for the hobby. There are a lot of new guys who if it is on the internet it is gospel. I was just saying the pit falls I went through. Keep 'm coming.🏁
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
@@wilzdart - It's all good, Will - Thanks!
@RoyEltham
3 жыл бұрын
Your metal wheelsets are all very old. Newer metal wheelsets are more accurately sized and shaped. Those old sets with thin metal skin around a plastic hub are worse than modern plastic wheelsets. Modern metal sets do weigh a little bit more, and when you are talking a total weight of 1oz, that small amount is significant. I've found that using MTL trucks with metal wheelsets designed to go in them. And I am able to run at least 10% more cars (same cars only difference is metal vs plastic) with a single loco. Metal wheelsets are always isolated, shorts are not really an issue. You really should get some decent modern metal wheelsets to try in your MTL trucks (just get one pack and try it).
@RoyEltham
3 жыл бұрын
If I did that same test with two identical cars but using good new metal wheelsets, the metal one would go much farther than the plastic. Your old sets are crap, that's why they roll badly.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Roy! I realize that my old trucks are crappy, that's why I pointed that out. My point of the whole thing was use what you want because there's no right or wrong to it. As to some of the things I talked about, I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I just mentioned things I've heard or seen from other people. I'm only saying I don't feel the need to spend money to swap out the plastic.
@RoyEltham
3 жыл бұрын
@@brianpagemodeltrains I understand, but I think it would have been a better comparison with actual good metal wheels. Maybe I'll jump on the bandwagon and do a video too. :)
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
@@RoyEltham - You should make one, Roy! The comparison in my case wasn't the point, my point was use what you want.
@HumancityJunction
3 жыл бұрын
Which metal wheelsets?
@HumancityJunction
3 жыл бұрын
Ooh, I almost missed this one. I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on these. Damn, you really through down on this one. I hope you have your flame suit on. Wait, you bailed out at the end and did not come to a conclusion? My 2 cents, I think the Micro-Trains wheelsets use better plastic wheels than the cheap plastic wheels on HO scale. I think the metal wheels is an HO scale thing from when there really was a difference.
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Yep, Heath, I just talked about things I've heard other people saying, and my point was to use whatever you like!
@anfieldroadlayoutintheloft5204
3 жыл бұрын
good vid
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Lee!
@sparky107107
3 жыл бұрын
wig? I thought I was going to have to put in a copy rite claim against you,, lol with HO scale the metal wheels are just the thing to do, everyone else does it so I have to do the same?
@brianpagemodeltrains
3 жыл бұрын
I kept the wig part short so I wouldn't infringe on you, Sparky! No, use whatever works for you!
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