I'm looking at the STO1104, cuz I like knobs and buttons too. ;) But serious question, can the ATO automotive presets and test procedures be installed on the STO version?
@atomsworkshop195
4 жыл бұрын
Hello tonyfremont. As of right now, No the automotive presets cannot be installed on the STO. I asked Micsig, and they said they have no plans to do so as of right now, since the ATO is their automotive scope. I suggested to them, that it would be a great idea to do that, since the knobs &.buttons would be a good idea for the automotive scope since we wear gloves and often have grime, oil, etc. on our hands. We’ll see what happens. Thanks for the question, and for stopping by the channel.
@tonyfremont
4 жыл бұрын
@@atomsworkshop195 Near as I can tell, they have an STO1104C and an STO1104E. The E version is more expensive, significantly, but does 130k waveforms per second and has 70 million sample points of memory, as opposed to the 80k waveforms and 28 million points which is what I believe the ATO and TO models have. Both are decent specs, but 1 gig samples per second, split across four channels at 250 meg per second is a bit weak. I really like the automotive aspect of the ATO and the pico scopes. It's more of a convenience thing, but it is convenient. I believe only the STO variants use Android underneath. That probably makes it difficult for them to implement the automotive features on the STO models. I really wish they'd put it all together and make the knobs and buttons removable. Micsig is trying to position themselves in the higher end of the market, and their build quality is really good, but they're lacking in a couple of areas. Serial decoding is okay, but there's no search or pattern triggering (yet?) On the data. They don't have "segmented" memory either. Those are things that would help automotive and general tech users. Their touch user interface is probably one of the better ones out there. Other manufacturer are just kinda tacking touch screens onto their scopes, whereas Micsig has been making touchscreen scopes from the beginning. Their website is a mess, trying to figure out what they have and compare different models is nearly impossible. It's unclear on some of the serial decoding ability, I believe a couple (that appear to be integrated, like arinc and mil) are actually serious extra cost features, but I'm not sure. But most manufacturers either skimp on the serial decoding formats, split them up into expensive individual options, or completely fail to implement some of them. I've looked in detail at a lot of $1000ish scopes, and nobody makes exactly what I want in one. I'm looking to replace an old Rigol, I'd like something portable to help me with building/maintaining escape room props and rugged enough for automotive diagnostics. So far the Rigol MSO5000 scopes tick a lot of the boxes, except portability. Micsig is hitting most of it, except pattern based serial triggering and searching. Don't you think it would be nice to see only the messages from a single message ID on a CAN bus, instead of a barrage of unrelated traffic drowning you? Or at least be able to quickly find the traffic of a single node on the bus? It seems like the people that design scopes don't actually use them, everything is about ridiculous marketing claims of specs, and not about real time saving, useful functionality. There is open source software (Sigrok Pulseview) that can parse through a serial data stream, triggering on complex selection criteria, using a $10 clone of a digital logic analyzer. It even points out communications errors such as parity, framing or missing acks. I don't know why they can't just embed that into these scopes. The software is free and knows literally scores of different protocols, no matter how obscure they are.i suppose that I can get a Micsig, capture data with it and feed it through Sigrok and Pulseview to glean out the stuff I need, on those relatively rare occasions. And resort to doing the math to handle the output of current clamps and pressure transducers when I need that. Anyway, thanks for doing the comparison, it helped me to figure out some of the differences of the ATO and TO tablet only scopes vs the STO models. They definitely go beyond just adding some knobs and buttons. Once someone figures out how to hack the Google play store onto the STO model, that will make it more useful. BTW, the 8 gigabytes is not RAM, it's storage for apps, videos, screenshots and the like. Kinda like disk space on a PC. The sampling memory is more like RAM, but not exactly like the RAM in a PC. There is a yet an undocumented amount of actual RAM that the programs run in, that goes away when you turn the power off. It's probably in the 3 or 4 gigabyte range. The 8 gigabyte storage they rave about should be more like 64 to 256 gigabytes, but this is the nature of device marketing. It wouldn't add that much to the manufacturing price, but leaving it out helps sell future models. You see how that works with cell phones. Thanks again.
@atomsworkshop195
4 жыл бұрын
tonyfremont, thanks for all the information, it’s obvious you know more about these than I do. Like you said, their website leaves something to be desired. That’s kinda why I started these videos. When I was shopping for a scope, I wanted more information, and wanted to see it being used on vehicles, but couldn’t find it. Once I decided on the Micsig, I figured I’d show what I could about it, so others could make a better decision when they decided to purchase one. I’m just a guy that works on cars, but really enjoy using the scopes. In fact I still need to get a pressure sensor and learn how to use it. It seems that you can get a lot of info using one. Also, thanks for explaining the RAM & storage. Even though I’m the one making the videos, I always say, I’m here to learn as well. So you make and maintain escape rooms? That sounds pretty fun. I hope you find the right scope for your uses. If there is anything you wanna see me do (that I haven’t already) with the ATO or STO, feel free to let me know, and I’ll try to make it happen. However I don’t have a pressure sensor yet. I know a couple of people have requested that. Only the Pico one was like $700 the last I checked. I know people are making their own, but I don’t want to do something wrong and fry my scope. Anyway, thanks again for the comments and all the good information. I hope you find the right one that will work for you. Obviously I like the Micsig, but only you can make the final decision. I can tell by your knowledge, that you’ll make the right choice. Take care my friend.
@tonyfremont
4 жыл бұрын
@@atomsworkshop195 I only build props for the escape room, I don't do game theme design or any of that. I wouldn't worry much about frying your scope with a homemade pressure transducer, as long as it is powered by batteries. Fuel injectors, primary coils and secondary ignition probes are the things to be a bit concerned with, especially secondary capacitive type clamp ons, be sure to connect the ground lead of the pickup BEFORE clamping the plug wire. Voltages picked up by those probes, without proper grounding, could easily wreck a front end circuit. Fuel injectors and ignition primaries voltages can be pretty high, but with at least a 10x probe, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. The Micsig scopes can take 300V directly, so they're pretty well protected. A nice set of Micsig differential probes might be something you want to look at in the future, just as a safety upgrade. Their probes are nice and the price is really reasonable. A really inexpensive way to protect your scope is a cheap 20:1 attenuator in case you like to use clip leads that don't have any attenuation built in, when connecting to fuel injectors or primary wiring. "Professional" pressure pickups are crazy expensive, look into using MAP sensors or the inexpensive transducers that you can find online. There are some really good homemade sensor assemblies that run on 5V to 12V and it would be impossible for you to get the wiring so wrong that it would harm the scope inputs. I'm really seriously looking at the STO1104 models, though it would be so nice to have the automotive features done as easy to use as the ATO scopes, especially the 720° vertical cursors, but there are other ways to cope with that, by downloading a screen snap and loading it into an image processing application that can overlay the 720° bars and make it simple to point at things in the image, using a mouse, and see how many degrees away it is from the first bar. I'm just debating on whether I can justify the extra price of the E model over the C model, it's about $300 more for something I'm not sure I would ever actually "need". Being built on top of android, the STO scopes have a huge potential of getting third party apps that add all of the automotive benefits, as well as other possibilities that aren't automotive related. I do wish they'd upgrade triggering to be able to automatically trigger on specific message IDs in CAN and I2C communications oddities. I've been using an oscilloscope for a long time, just not in automotive/small engine tinkering I do, or for serial communications debugging, which is becoming a necessity for me with game room props. I have other, really cheap, but extremely powerful, ways to deal with that though, even if it isn't exactly convenient. The open source Sigrok Pulseview and a $10 digital sampler make that stuff so much easier, since Pulseview knows so many protocols of various devices you'd find on various serial busses. It's cool being able to watch a microcontroller talk to say a serial flash device or temp sensor and have Pulseview interpret the commands and data flowing back and forth, and flag things that aren't going right. Any scope is better than no scope when working on things like cars. You can see so much stuff that even the most expensive Fluke DMM will never reveal, like glitches in wiring, noise on a CAN bus or bad diodes in an alternator etc. The list is unending. Thanks for responding and good luck with your adventures in using a scope. I'm sure I don't have to tell you how helpful they are on modern, and even not so modern cars.
@atomsworkshop195
4 жыл бұрын
Tonyfremont, hello there. Sorry I didn’t get to respond to your last comment earlier, but I did want to mention a few things. First off, thank you for all the good information. I definitely feel better about putting together a homemade pressure transducer. Also, I do have 2 20x Hantek attenuators, and I have the cheaper of the two Micsig high voltage differential probes; for those times I’m not comfortable or sure with the voltage, or I just don’t want to take a chance. Also, I definitely agree with you. It would be great if Micsig merged the STO with the ATO automotive features. I think that would be ideal. I think I prefer using the STO over the ATO, only the automotive features on the ATO make things quicker, if not easier (for me anyway). I love having the knobs & buttons of the STO when I have gloves on or grease/grime on my hands. Absolutely, any scope is better than no scope. Not only that, but they are really fun to use. I’ve been getting into building small little circuits in my free time, testing them with my scopes and sometimes I feel like a mad scientist, lol. Again, thanks for all the info. I’m still learning this stuff, and always welcome some much needed knowledge.
@leedale5393
4 жыл бұрын
Loose the music please
@atomsworkshop195
4 жыл бұрын
Hello Lee Dale. I hear you. I thought long and hard before I committed to putting the music. With that said, I assure you, you probably don’t want to hear my brother and I talking through that entire video. In fact some things said wouldn’t be appropriate for a family channel, lol. I wasn’t originally planning on posting the video. My wife “suggested” dropping our voices and adding the music. Unfortunately, if I add any good music, I get in trouble for copyright issues, and they take my video down. Unfortunately, I already learned that lesson. Anyway, I’ll leave a link to another video I did looking at CAN Hi & Lo with no music. In that video I was using my STO1104E. It’s basically the same as the ATO1104 as far as the scope goes. Thanks for stopping by the channel. Link: kzitem.info/news/bejne/rX6vt2iuhomjfHY
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