Unfortunately I think a lot of people have missed the point of this video. The centerpoint argument in pro-life vs. pro choice is about whether the baby is its own being or is part of the mother. as christian blue pointed out, the baby, unborn or not, is scientifically its own separate being. in order to be pro-choice and be logically consistent, you must either deny that the baby is its own separate being, or disagree that humans have a natural right to life. if you agree with both, then abortion (for the vast, vast majority of cases) is morally unjustifiable.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
Why do you presuppose that humans have a "natural right" to life that trumps all, and why do you try to force your rigid conceptions of morality upon others like the vermin that made this video? Certain cultures posit that it should be extremely taboo to consume meat of any sort, as they believe that all animals have souls and should be respected. You have no right to assume everyone's on board with your anthropocentric mindset that strangely prioritizes unborn fœtuses when you aren't even 100% vegan or vegetarian, yourself. If consuming meat is okay, then there's no reason why abortion can't be as well.
@en--ev
3 ай бұрын
Aside from the fact that this is a purely semantic argument, I disagree wholeheartedly that the baby is its own separate being deserving of all the same intrinsic, moral, and legal rights that the rest of us have. The fetus, as it is still in its mother and developing, is a part of her body, without her body and its nutrients it would not continue to grow or develop._/_it would not survive. And as it is a part of her body, the right to bodily autonomy dictates that she can do with it whatever she desires. No government should have the authority to infringe upon this right and dictate what we can or can’t do with our own bodies, this is a basic principle of Liberty. The government has no right to restrict or regulate your private life. How you choose to live your own life, in the privacy of your own home and private property is entirely up to you. You cannot just caste Liberty out of the window because of your own moral convictions. Liberty as a principle must be held front and foremost, lest we allow abstract moral convictions to lead us to Tyranny. If we can make this _one_ exception of Liberty in this instance, then what other exceptions can we make; where do we draw the arbitrary line; and who is in charge of deciding where to put said line--in charge of deciding what exceptions are and are not permissible? Do you really trust the powers that be to forever and always make the Liberty sacrificing decisions that morally align with you? Because if you’ve at all kept up with the recent happenings across the western world: hate speech laws, covid crackdowns, and trucker bank account freezings, then I doubt that you do. Abortion is not a debate about morality, it is a debate about Liberty. Liberty must be preserved, above all else.
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
@@en--ev if what you determine that a baby is not its own being because it cannot live without the support of the mother, what stops us from applying the same logic to other things? Even after birth a baby can't survive without being physically supported for quite a while. Even closer to a fetus would be a patient in a coma, or someone completely bedridden for life. They cannot survive without the support of the hospital and its machines, so does the hospital staff have the right to do with them as they please? After all a bedridden patient actively leeches off the hospital and staff as does an unborn child to its mother. The same could be applied to an elderly person being taken care of by their grandchildren when they are too old to do anything themselves. I don't see how being unable to support oneself determines whether it has intrinsic rights. I assume you'll disagree with these, so please provide a logical explanation why such cases deserve different treatment.
@digitalhomic8155
3 ай бұрын
@@en--ev those who Hate GOD Love Death
@sonny1524
2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you said that death is not a solution, but someone who wants them. I’ve never heard that all together, only in parts known it. it really stands strong and brings clarity to me.
@_itsmia2189
2 жыл бұрын
This is true but what about the ones who get adopted into abusive homes ? Or child p*edator programs where they treat them like prisoners or slaves , situations like that aren’t talked about in a way where there is a solution or some type of recourse. Idk
@xyztogrutamamenchi7894
3 ай бұрын
@@_itsmia2189I think that is where the state has to use its power to punish evildoers and commend doers of good as it should. Though that won't solve it completely because we live in a fallen world with fallen people but it should make it better.
@skyethebibleguy3879
3 жыл бұрын
Also, from a Christian perspective. We are made as the image of God. Many debate what being as Gods image actually means, but I think whatever it means, it has to be 100 percent equal between male and female. Since God created male and female in His own image. Also, whatever it means must be 100 percent true at all stages of a humans life. Meaning, all the way from conception to death it will be true. Also, it must be 100 percent completely unique to humans and not to any other animal or creature. At least in the physical realm anyway, but that is a different kind of topic. I do not think being as Gods image means anything about intelligence, emotions, consciousness, or physical looks. Since none of these options can be said to be 100 percent equal and unique to humans alone, or some even between just humans themselves. All I think it means is that humans represent God. Basically it is not a specific attribute, but rather a function. Basically when someone has an abortion they are killing an innocent representation of God. That's a big deal, and it's something we should really take into consideration. By the way, I really liked the video and I subscribed to your channel. Sorry about the long comment I like to talk a lot.
@NickNui
3 ай бұрын
It's easy for me to be anti-abortion because I find the idea of intercourse to be icky.
@Shrek-vo4kk
3 ай бұрын
When you put it like this, I couldn't disagree. I like the idea of being in control of the decisions around one's body, but the unborn child is its own body, and I think that is often overlooked or ignored. In the past I've tried to be neutral, although leaning toward choice, as I felt that it should be up to the mother. But taking human life cannot be justified, and I stand by that. Abortion is essentially putting a price to human life, and I won't agree with that. God made everyone equal, so why should we try to justify murder by saying that one life is lesser than the other? Thank you Blue for making these videos. It's always so inspiring to see Christians my age. God Bless you.
@en--ev
3 ай бұрын
What about Pro-Choice from the perspective of Liberty? Of maintaining Liberty as an absolute value, above all others, even our own moral convictions? This alongside the very slippery slope that is making exceptions to Liberty for the sake of our own abstract moral convictions. You never acknowledged this within the video.
@risenplus_
3 ай бұрын
one of the six Things the lord hates, is the hands that Shed innocent blood. Guys when a life is concieved that is when its life begins and its a human and living if it aint ur DNA then it aint your choice what happens to a child once its been born. and bro God literally gives us a whole guideline to marriage and sex before marriage people need to take accountability for their actions. God bless Tho.
@littlecat5293
2 жыл бұрын
great video with great points!
@thefruitsoffaith7
3 ай бұрын
Imagine you are a judge and you have a case before you where a thief in an attempt to escape the crime scene, knocked over a pregnant woman who’s had 7 miscarriages. For the past 8 months, her pregnancy has been successful but now “Adam” is not alive. Does this woman’s testimony affect his sentencing? What you choose determines the value of an unborn babies life. That is why I am pro-life.
@en--ev
3 ай бұрын
Wow, the latter half of this video really goes off the rails. So much for the veil of professional composure and objective argumentation.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@en--ev White Christians aren't known for being particularly logical creatures
@Brotherline
2 жыл бұрын
congratulatins on 500 subscribers blue
@fiji.christianblue
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!!
@Brotherline
2 жыл бұрын
@@fiji.christianblue "anytime friend"
@jimmymelonseed4068
2 жыл бұрын
This is so impressive. You have one of the most clear minded videos on KZitem about this topic, and it gives a fair look at both sides!
@fiji.christianblue
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I did my best :)
@faelela5898
2 жыл бұрын
so growing up my mother was going to abort me and couldent because i was too far along and tho my childhood was rough and we were incredibly poor i was still able to become successful in life with help of the military.....
@leaf1284-f7i
3 жыл бұрын
I love your videos 💞
@fiji.christianblue
3 жыл бұрын
Aww thank you 😊💙
@face....
3 жыл бұрын
@@fiji.christianblue 10:18 YOU JUST SPOKE FAX I LUV IT!!!!!! I wish people can just take the time to study this. God bless!!!
@slso3642
3 жыл бұрын
“My foot”
@DiscipleJameson
3 ай бұрын
love it!
@NickNui
3 ай бұрын
I like this approach better. A lot of talk about how children are gifts and how "no no, you're gonna love being a parent, getting pregnant isn't a tragedy!" I don't think everyone should be a parent, and being a good person and a good parent are two very different things, and not every person and not every couple should HAVE to have children. But fetus murder is not the answer.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@NickNui "Fœtus murder?" What does that mean? What constitutes murder in your mind?
@NickNui
3 ай бұрын
@@godofmath1039 An unjustified act of a human killing another human.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@NickNui What does "justified" mean to you?
@NickNui
3 ай бұрын
@@godofmath1039 Justified killing is the death penalty for murderers and r*pists. You believe killing due to just being in a womb is justified, I'd like to know why.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@NickNui I didn't say anything about that. I asked you what you consider justified. You aren't thinking rationally
@lolaanfer88
2 жыл бұрын
Let's switch abortion with adoption
@fitos_toxic
3 ай бұрын
@PercydeRoloFangirl
2 жыл бұрын
Well if the person was raped or can't take care of a child or is too young I can see why abortion will help but other than that I don't see any reason for an abortion.
@MichaelTheCorpse
3 ай бұрын
Ah, punish the child for the sins of the parent, real smart move there Abortion is always wrong
@Faithfulfilled1
3 ай бұрын
How is rape the sin of the parent? I mean yeah shouldn’t abort it for sinning the other ways but you can’t just slap that sticker on all arguments
@MichaelTheCorpse
3 ай бұрын
@@Faithfulfilled1 I was referring to the parent that did the abhorrent action of rape, not the victim
@MichaelTheCorpse
3 ай бұрын
You shouldn't murder the child in the womb just because of the abhorrent sins of one of their parents
@ivostefanoff4946
3 жыл бұрын
Interesting video lady
@a7c777
2 жыл бұрын
Im pro life. But im curious, what do you all think about the statement “you shouldn’t end the life of a being just because you think it will have a difficult life.” When applied to animal euthanasia following diseases etc.?
@colbyhunter4622
4 ай бұрын
Animals are not human or made in the image of God and are under the authority of humans. God commands that we care for all His creations and to not abuse. But an animal is, by the greater authority of God, under the authority of man. So the killing of an animal is not a sin, if done out of a righteous purpose such as eating, protection, or ending suffering. Sadly, we also have to kull many animals to prevent disease, overpopulation, extinction of entire animal species, crop protection, ect. This last part, for the Christian perspective, is because of our own sin and death we brought to the world. BUT on the bright side, all animals will be present on the day of resurrection as they are flesh, so they will be raised from the dead alongside humans. 😊
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
I think the main thing is the difference between a "difficult life" and a tortured life. If i was stuck in a hospital bed, with pain that could not be medicated, couldn't walk, had to breath with a machine, whatever, then I'd rather be put out of my misery. But being raised poor, or with abusive parents, or being homeless, you still get to live life. I don't care how hard I have to struggle in life, if I get to live it. It's only if there's no hope that I think it's ok to put me out of my misery. I think the same goes for animals. the ones who are sick, in pain, and dying get put out of their misery. but you don't go around killing dogs on the street because they have it harder than ones that get to live in a house with a nice owner. That's from a completely pragmatic viewpoint, but I agree entirely with the commenter above me, as someone with a Christian perspective humans are made in the image of god, and we have souls. having souls makes our lives infinitely more valuable than any other life on the planet.
@jordanfgfox7237
3 ай бұрын
But how can you be pro-life if you can't sustain it?Or you don't have a necessities for it. That's inhumane I believe every child should be born in a stable family, household, spiritually and financially. And if you get rid of both of them it's very reckless
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
@@jordanfgfox7237 that's why we have systems like foster care and adoption. Unfortunately the systems aren't very good at the moment but you can not take care of a kid and not get an abortion.
@colbyhunter4622
3 ай бұрын
@jordanfgfox7237 Adoption, foster care, and orphanages. If not having a difficult life was your requirement them would have to kill the vast majority of kids on earth. And we have thousands of programs/organisation's to help children and their families.
@naomigreen6957
3 жыл бұрын
Good work!
@user-ez05ob0WqQ
2 жыл бұрын
I'm open about it, sex is originally for having baby and not for pleasures though people enjoys it very much, so in a way yes, they should carry the weight of taking care of the child raise them to be proper human being, they can give away if they don't want kids etc... but I dunno, I guess we should leave the option of abortion there for others but never to touch it ourselves, so I guess I'm... Pro-Choice...
@Sedent333
3 ай бұрын
it is through pleasure that the body forces you and all living being to have sex, so you cant escape, it is not a "we just do it for fun" thing, it is biology, we just happen to be able to trick the system just a bit through logic.
@Sunseekers05
2 жыл бұрын
Are you a Christian?
@fiji.christianblue
2 жыл бұрын
Just so happens I am
@Aqman16
2 жыл бұрын
I think you took a really drastic turn around 9:00 comparing the denial of rights to Jews during the holocaust to the denial of rights to “innocent humans” that are the unborn. I personally don’t believe we are born into this world with any Natural Rights, but that’s a whole philosophical discussion. I also don’t believe life has any real intrinsic value, if it did, we might consider slaughterhouses a bigger problem, but most people happily consume chicken McNuggets without a second thought to all those ground up baby chickens. (Yes I understand it might be relevant to delineate between humans and other species, but I think that’s delusional and representative of our egomania being at the top of the food chain) The real problem to me is and will always be concern for the child’s life after they are born, the playing field is already so unlevel as it is, it’s more cruel to add yet another weight on a person now forced into existence. Lastly I think Republican lawmakers are expert rhetoricians, and that drives and instigates their base. Instead of pro-life, consider yourself as being on team forced-birth. Considering the history of our country as well I think adds yet another dimension to this. I think it’s symptomatic of the colonizer mentality (or perhaps Christianity) to think any one human being or collective of like-minded individuals has any right whatsoever to tell another what they can and cannot do. Just because a life may or may not exist is not your responsibility, it never has been and never will be.
@Olliemaxx1
5 ай бұрын
Literally this. Its none of anyones business to dictate a womans body and claim to be “Pro-life” when they dont even consider life after birth. They seem to care SOOO much, but after its born, they dont 2 flying cows if the baby lives in poverty. How about we focus on making the world a better place for people who are already here instead of forcing women to produce more slaves to serve the machine that is our economy.
@xyztogrutamamenchi7894
3 ай бұрын
@@Olliemaxx1 many Churches do, have done and will do a lot to help the poor, the needy and the downtrodden as they are called to do.
@Twirly_Sticks
2 жыл бұрын
There actually are plenty of pro choice arguments that don't require the dehumanization of the unborn. The most famous one is the bodily autonomy argument (also known as the violinist argument). There is a great video about it made by a channel called philosophy tube that explains it pretty well.
@xyztogrutamamenchi7894
3 ай бұрын
I might get the argument wrong but if I remember the violinist correctly you never agreed to or did anything that had this consequence. If you have consensual intercourse you freely and with full autonomy do something that has pregnancy as a natural consequence (even with contraceptives). This means pregnancy is the result of an action taken with full bodily autonomy. Nobody has the right to live without the consequences of their actions (including fathers and mothers (I consider fathers leaving the mother instead of helping her honorless cowards)). The case of the violinist is more similar to rape: you agreed to nothing that would naturally lead to this and did nothing of that manner. This is (to my knowledge) the only form of intercourse that isn't done with full bodily autonomy and therefore the only one where the child is in no way the consequence of ones actions. This is also the reason I believe rape to be an tolerable reason for an abortion (acceptable ones would be to save the life of the mother) but it is still killing an innocent child for the evilness of another (the rapist).
@NickNui
3 ай бұрын
The funniest thing about the argument is that it has to be a violinist. That doesn't really speak to the quality of the argument, I just always found it funny that it was that oddly specific.
@Olliemaxx1
5 ай бұрын
Whats sick is forcing women to suffer pregnancy and the expensive AF hospital bill they probably will not be able to afford. there are women who DIE from childbirth. “nothing justifies intentionally killing an innocent human” So by following that logic, youre sick either way, because if the mother dies, the blood is on your hands.
@v777-l1u
2 жыл бұрын
8:49 we kill millions of organisms every day. Just because it's alive does not mean its important. Once it is fertilized, it is a single cell. Yes it's living, but it's not important. Fetuses don't even feel pain until 20 weeks after conception. Thinking/Consciousness starts some time between 24 and 28 weeks. Until it starts having consciousness, a fetus is not a baby. It's life is not as important as a baby or a grown human. A fetus that is unwanted is a parasite only weakening the immune system of a woman. Now there are different types of abortions; ones done because of rape, accidental conception, economic reasons, and health reasons. As for rape, nobody should oppose a woman being raped getting an abortion. She did not consent to conception and a baby could economically ruin her life. Accidental conception includes contraception not working as intended and irresponsible behavior such as not using contraceptive at all. I have a question for you, if a woman's health is negatively affected by being pregnant do you think she shouldn't be allowed an abortion? Lastly, a woman who financially cannot take care of a baby has two options, raise the child in poor conditions or sending it into the underfunded and overcrowded foster care system. Either way, the child isn't going to have an average healthy lifestyle someone (at least in a developed country) should have. Being raised poor or without parents a good portion of your life really mentally affects you.
@fiji.christianblue
2 жыл бұрын
To answer your question about if the mother's life is in danger. I used to struggle with this! But recently I came to understand it's not really a thing. A woman's life isn't in danger due to pregnancy till after the third trimester. (When the baby is old enough to live outside the room) The way to help the woman get better is to take the baby out. You don't have to kill the baby first! That is an unnecessary extra step! The only way to help her is by taking the baby out. So take the baby out! Then if she doesn't want them, put him or her up for adoption. As for the rest of the stuff you said. It just seems like ideology and personal beliefs of yours. I gave arguments and fact on why we should protect the unborn humans. If you have counter arguments I'd love to hear them ---- I understand it's an emotional topic. And personal for many. So I hope my response doesn't come off too blunt or insensitive 😞
@deece1482
2 жыл бұрын
There are such things as lesser beings. Bacteria and small organisms are lesser beings. Animals should be treated well, because they are superior to the bacteria, but we are superior to the animals. Comparing non humans to humans is like comparing a tiny mouse to a lion. A single human cell has the possibility to become a great person, each cell is a seed of the universe. To kill the cell and thus snuff out its existence is murder. Bacteria can never develop into a human, so its different. If a woman gets raped and then gets pregnant, then have the kid and send it off for adoption. If the baby threatens the woman's life, then so be it, the child should still have a chance. You cannot claim to care about a woman's life, when you're so blasé about killing kids. You either don't care about life at all, or you do. There's no middle ground. Pick your side.
@Relies-t5v
2 жыл бұрын
@ okayy...? Do you realize how much ridiculous the statement "it's not a baby it's a fetus" is? Fetus means literally "baby, small child" in Latin, you are suddenly changing to a language that you cannot understand in the same sentence as an attempt to escape reality which is really insane, "it's living but it's not important", like how much more sickening can your thoughts become? There is clearly a huge difference between human beings and other living organisms and consciousness begins at conception, with your horrendous way of thinking its like you came out of a mental clinic This again shows how without God it is impossible for someone to stay sane and have peace which is why nonbelievers have always been such an extremely small minority, advocating for the killing of children and trying to justify it is beyond insane and wicked in every sense of the word
@Relies-t5v
2 жыл бұрын
@ okayy...? Do you realize how much ridiculous the statement "it's not a baby it's a fetus" is? Fetus means literally "baby, small child" in Latin, you are suddenly changing to a language that you cannot understand in the same sentence as an attempt to escape reality which is really insane, "it's living but it's not important", like how much more sickening can your thoughts become? There is clearly a huge difference between human beings and other living organisms and consciousness begins at conception, with your horrendous way of thinking its like you came out of a mental clinic This again shows how without God it is impossible for someone to stay sane and have peace which is why nonbelievers have always been such an extremely small minority, advocating for the killing of children and trying to justify it is beyond insane and wicked in every sense of the word
@Relies-t5v
2 жыл бұрын
Do you realize how much ridiculous the statement "it's not a baby it's a fetus" is? Fetus means literally "baby, small child" in Latin, you are suddenly changing to a language that you cannot understand in the same sentence as an attempt to escape reality which is really insane, "it's living but it's not important", like how much more sickening can your thoughts become? There is clearly a huge difference between human beings and other living organisms and consciousness begins at conception, with your horrendous way of thinking its like you came out of a mental clinic
@stupendoushorrendous8258
2 жыл бұрын
I highly recommend watching Philosophy Tube's video on abortion, it utterly shatters the anti-choice position. These people are not "disgusting," they simply have regard for the bodily autonomy, which it seems you don't. Especially if you believe that the pro-life position should be law.
@fiji.christianblue
2 жыл бұрын
I'll check it out
@godofmath1039
5 ай бұрын
The "person" that made this video is incapable of thinking with its brain.
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
ive always been quite fond of the fact that this decades long debate has been pro life vs. pro choice. the names themselves aren't socially engineered in such a way to cause someone to thoughtlessly follow one side. Unfortunately, sometimes I see people who say "anti-choice" and whatnot to falsely put themselves in a position of superiority by using the positive/negative connotation of words. It would be logically consistent then to call the other side "anti-life" but surely you see how that puts no one in support of it in a good light? it's best to debate such things honestly instead of using dirty tactics, by using facts and logic to present your viewpoints. I know this comment is a year old at least, but I do hope that you don't continue to use bad logic to assert your points. To your argument though, I think both sides respect bodily autonomy. The dividing issue is whether the child's bodily autonomy and right to life should be ignored or not.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
The KZitemr is a racist
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@fiji.christianblue Why are you a white supremacist?
@godofmath1039
5 ай бұрын
It's extremely insulting of you to compare fœtuses to Black people and Native Americans and abortion to their historical treatment. I don't know what goes through your head for you to think that but that's appalling and extremely racist.
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
how? in the end they were all denied their basic human rights.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@red_phoenix0570 So you think marginalized minorities are comparable to non-sentient organisms?
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@red_phoenix0570 Why is a fœtus deserving of recognition for its supposed "human rights?" Give me a well-formulated argument predicated on elementary moral axioms.
@godofmath1039
3 ай бұрын
@@red_phoenix0570 The groups are not remotely comparable, and the fact that you think they are shows that you don't actually care about people
@red_phoenix0570
3 ай бұрын
@@godofmath1039 you still won't explain how or why. Your argument doesn't stand until you do
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