I...I'm in a bit of a conundrum. I think this comment is funny which usually would get a like. But I didn't dislike the video...I'll have to ponder this one.
@ThunderbirdAnthares
2 жыл бұрын
*loud paradox induced cranial implosion*
@keithbrings9053
2 жыл бұрын
And these likes entered in guise of dislikes in the metrics do they positively impact the video's rankings the same as likes entered as likes.
@2bituser569
2 жыл бұрын
What happens if we dislike the comment but liked the video? Will the resulting explosion be like matter/antimatter colliding?
@lancep2002
2 жыл бұрын
Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in ceiling fan, send help.
@pianotm
2 жыл бұрын
I love that you spent an entire talking point about how humanity's purpose in space exploration is to breed as much as possible.
@Chris-rp9df
2 жыл бұрын
We have failed to uphold Brannigan’s Law. However, I did make it with a hot alien babe. And in the end, is that not what man has dreamt of since first he looked up at the stars?
@user-ew5wg8ty8b
2 жыл бұрын
To boldly bone, where no one has boned before - Captain Kirk probably
@cernstormrunner7263
2 жыл бұрын
Any hole is a goal.
@pianotm
2 жыл бұрын
@@cernstormrunner7263 Any port in a storm!
@jamoecw
2 жыл бұрын
@@user-ew5wg8ty8b the quote from the Star Trek porno was "To bodly bone where no man has boned before." there was more to it to match it closer to the original quote, but yeah there is a quote that almost matches what you put.
@timothyhiggins8934
2 жыл бұрын
I don't buy it. There's 1 thing that wasn't mentioned, but definitely has merit: cardissians have 2 spinal cords, which explains their necks. I believe this was mentioned in the ds9 episode where sisko and dukat was trapped on a planet together. That's a lot of evolving to do
@ananousous
2 жыл бұрын
Or a Bajoran doctor tried to cure a bad case of the Urodelan flu
@aaronwishard7093
2 жыл бұрын
It could be a freak mutation from radiation that ended up being beneficial. Granted since there's lots of plot holes in the question to begin with we aren't really sure on many of the key details that would make this theory have more or less weight.
@bigsprucerabbitry6238
2 жыл бұрын
Do we know Bajorans have one spinal cord? I don't recall is ever discussed so Cardissians having two spinal cords is only relivant if we know Bajorans have one spinal cord
@timothyhiggins8934
2 жыл бұрын
@@bigsprucerabbitry6238 that's a good point. I would imagine that someone with 2 spinal cords would look different than someone with only 1, but it is entirely possible that bajorans have 2 and it just doesn't show as much as the cardissians. I'd say if anything, bajorans favor humans far more, and not just by appearances
@skaetur1
2 жыл бұрын
But it IS possible.
@JaelaOrdo
2 жыл бұрын
“BLOODY BAJORANS!” - O’Brien probably
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
Truth
@Iceflkn
2 жыл бұрын
They are like the Irish. Declaring independence everywhere they go! 😉😜
@johntrevy1
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I do wonder if the Prophets are Bajorans who have evolved to a non corporeal existence. It is shown that Bajorans seen to have a sort of life-force telepathy (Grabbing ears) and that the Prophets said that they were of Bajor. The true believers of the Prophets would be able to sense their energy and Kai Opaka was able to reach through to Sisko whilst he was in the Celestial Temple. Hypocrites like Kai Winn couldn't sense the prophets because she never truly believed in them, only her own power and status.
@MoonjumperReviews
2 жыл бұрын
I think so. At least that seems to be the subtle implication.
@vic5015
2 жыл бұрын
@Brad Grant we *know* that The Sisko is part zprophet.
@ChristopherM720
2 жыл бұрын
"We are of Bajor" I think they began there but clearly either evolved beyond corporal state or started out vastly diff to begin with
@alexpayne5914
2 жыл бұрын
I can't really get behind the Prophets evolving at all. They are non-linear. Everything they say comes off as being eternal, they've always been there and always will, existing basically at every point in time simultaneously. They admitted they don't even know what linear time is, much less having experienced it.
@chriswilder9719
2 жыл бұрын
@Brad Grant while I don't think they ever have or will ever evolve on Bajor, they have lied to Benjamin about experiencing linear time or not understanding it. His mother is one of them. They planned for him to be meaning they had to understand and experience linear time to even guess when to conceive him. I believe they evolved in the wormhole and given it's proximity to Bajor they claim to be of it.
@adjsmith
2 жыл бұрын
I was today years old when I realized that the Trek ancient aliens were really the Founders
@baskkev7459
2 жыл бұрын
Lost colonies: Also common in our earth. Australie, America both have proof of lost colonies for us humans. Animal life its even more clear. And yeah it would make sense. @lore reloaded, it makes even more sense if you looked at the purposed 8th season off ds9. where Kira ( and bajorans) become more extreme in their ways. Just like cardasians became in their past.
@whyjnot420
2 жыл бұрын
It would have been nice if the shows had fleshed this out a bit more, say the way Space Battleship Yamato did. Where it is explicitly stated that all of the intelligent humanoid races, all come from a single ancient race either through some form of seeding their own form of life, or actually creating it with at least one race. Rather than kind of saying it here and there, and implying it here and there, which leads to a bit too much confusion. It really wouldn't be hard to take a common ancestor concept, and then explain how some current groups have become too different to procreate while others have not. caveat: In Space Battleship Yamato, it really does make more sense to talk about different races than different species, given just how closely related they all actually are. Though to be fair, I am not really sure about how feasible procreation between the groups are..... if it is impossible, they would technically be different species by that point.
@aashishdevgun
2 жыл бұрын
If the ancient Bajorans did live and populated Cardassia than after the military coup, it couldn't possibly have been entirely covered up and must give rise to some factions sympathetic to the Bajorans to tell the truth just as it was with that Voth scientist in Voyager.
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the pull back if bajor by cardassia was due to sympathetic elements ?
@Mankorra_Gomorrah
2 жыл бұрын
It’s important to remember that the Voth didn’t know where they came from, they had a general idea and a sort of creation myth but they didn’t know anything for sure. This didn’t sit well with that Voth scientist who began looking into it and reached the truth, the Cardassians know where they came from, Cardassia and they know how they got there, evolution. There’s no need to go looking or to create alternate theories. Now, it would be interesting to see a Cardassian museum and go looking through their exhibits of ancient cardassians...
@rc1982
2 жыл бұрын
How does one cover up a fact already known by every single individual in the planet?
@aashishdevgun
2 жыл бұрын
@@rc1982 go to Quarks!
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
@@rc1982 I don’t think it’s known by every single person. We can’t even agree on vaccines in the real world, so this wouldn’t surprise me :p
@MacTX
2 жыл бұрын
Voyager was able to determine that the Voth originated from earth by scanning a single Voth and comparing his DNA to those of others from earth, humans. I'm sure if Cardassians came from/originated from Bajor, someone would have already made that connection long ago. Someone just had to scan a Cardassian and a Bajoran and it would have been blatantly apparent. If you ignore that giant plot hole, sure, that's an interesting theory you have.
@jamoecw
2 жыл бұрын
keep in mind plot holes like this are pretty common in Star Trek. it is one of its big failings (the other one that overshadows this one is scale), but you really hit the nail on the head.
@MacTX
2 жыл бұрын
@@jamoecw yep and to compound the plot hole even further, Dr. Bashir works on both Cardassians and Bajorans pretty regularly, it flies completely under the radar to him is another plot hole on its own. If they came from the same planet, Bashir would have noticed and fully looked into it.
@JonathanLundkvist
2 жыл бұрын
@@MacTX it could be known but not talked about. Bashir may desire not to be punched by bajorans and cardassians alike.
@ImpendingJoker
2 жыл бұрын
@@MacTX I'm about to ruin your whole day. The reason it's never come up is because no one, in universe, had ever thought about it. Bajor and Cardassia Prime are many light years apart, so to think they could have common ancestry would be a pretty ridiculous concept. Someone would first have to suspect it to be the case and go looking for evidence before a theory could be formed. Even on earth, many species carry very similar DNA that show they are from earth, and since we have not found any life from other planets we have no way of knowing if similar genetic markers are out there. Meaning, that one could look at Bajoran and Cardassian DNA, see similarities, and it wouldn't register because at that point in time we already know that those similarities exist as explained in the TNG episode that was referenced here. So, there is already an in universe explanation that throws your whole theory out the window. After the the trip Sisko made and the discovery of the solar sailer on Cardassia Prime, this could then lead to the very genome research you are talking about, but it wouldn't have happened before that, because there was no reason to suspect it.
@esgrove
2 жыл бұрын
@@JonathanLundkvist The Romulans and Vulcans hate eachother. But their genetic connection is well-known.
@Kuhesgewehr
2 жыл бұрын
But in the TNG episode The Chase, the Cardassians were identified as one of the precursor-seeded races, not as a permutation of Bajoran. Also, while the light-sail ships are pretty clearly shown to have probably tachyon-eddy'ed to Cardassia, I doubt they colonized it.
@stanislavkostarnov2157
Жыл бұрын
also, two way ability was never proven as far as we know...
@greytroll1632
5 ай бұрын
IT's been a long time since I watched that episode, but perhaps when they were identified as such, they were talking about the Bajorans?
@chrisrautmann8936
2 жыл бұрын
"Species next door( on a planetary scale) could have similar environmental impacts." Hunh? Species on ONE planet have enough genetic variation to not be able to cross-breed. Even species with a common ancestor on the same continent or even same ISLAND cannot interbreed.
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
In Star Trek, one phenomenon that impacts one star system can impact another or even sector.. in movies, and tv series.. so in context of trek, it is possible
@feralguyver
2 жыл бұрын
There is this one area with a ton of like salamanders or something that can breed with neighbors that are close enough
@vic5015
2 жыл бұрын
Trek doesn't follow conventional definitions of what species are. That's been clear almost from the beginning. Using the generally accepted scientific definition of what species are, hybrid individuals like Troi and Spock should *not* be possible. In fact, aside from that "Precursor" thing, there is *zero* reason why 2 individuals from different planets separated by vast interstellar distances should be *at all* compatible physically and genetically.
@damenwhelan3236
2 жыл бұрын
I know man. The biological science of trek is just the rest. It pissed me off no end till I learned more physics and then thatbpissed me off. So I just suspend my disbelief more. Many episodes push though and I can't watch them cause the science is so poorly formulated (science in this context is used as the word "magic" may in others. Only science is both hard and soft.)
@travcollier
2 жыл бұрын
@@damenwhelan3236 The problem with Star Trek is that it tries to 'explain' stuff which just makes no sense. Sometimes the technobabble is so cringe inducing I just have to turn it off. That Voyager ep. was definitely unwatchable for me (I'm a biologist IRL). DS9 generally did better than than the other series on that front. The more out-there stuff was typically things no one understood, so effectively just Clarketech/magic (and explained as such... "I don't know how that works" or gods/prophets)
@PeoplecallmeLucifer
2 жыл бұрын
8:13 OH THIS! would have been an amazing plot point for DS9 ... It could still be an amazing plot point for any future Trek. Imagine a show that visits Cardassia rebuilding itself after the Dominion war and where the new government has to deal with the remnants of the fascist dictatorship and then they find THIS bombshell
@Rick_Cleland
2 жыл бұрын
My life has been a complete and total misery ever since Bigfoot stole my precious girlfriend in the middle of the night.😒 He even took all her clothes and the T.V.
@ziiofswe
2 жыл бұрын
@@Rick_Cleland Are... are they genetically compatible?
@juancholo7502
2 жыл бұрын
So basically Humans are the Rosetta Stone of interspecies mixing. "Where are all the green space women?" - Said by every human male astronaut.
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
You saw "Blazing Saddles" one too many times, dude.
@marcusmanchester1995
2 жыл бұрын
This is one of those areas where just a little more world building in one or two places would answer this debate, and there is one thing that was touched on that could answer this question: The Cardassian Vole. It's clear that the Vole is related to Cardassians as they both have the same spoon-like structure on their heads. They are also clearly invasive pests on the station. The detail that would clear this up is whether there are Bajoran Voles making the Cardassian variant an offshoot, and did life on Cardassia evolve independently or are Cardassians themselves an invasive species on their own planet?
@lezking5060
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it was some kind of genetic exchange from Vole to Bajoran "colonist" that lead to the development of proto-Cardassians? A bit like how the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis developed from those bugs that acquired/absorbed Human DNA!?!?
@marcusmanchester1995
2 жыл бұрын
@@lezking5060 I seem to remember that the bug thing turned out to only be part of the story in the end and that the Wraith were Ancients of some sort? I could just be misremembering. I think the most likely answer is that the Bajoran/Cardassian connection is just a convergence of stories in a way that is making this theory plausible. It could go either way, but will probably never be answered on screen, BUT I think if it were true, it would have been mentioned already. Think about how similar Humans are to our closest relatives on Earth. Humans and Chimpanzees share 99% of our DNA and we are much further diverged than Bajorans and Cardassians would be. Additionally, how many Cardassians did Bashir have go through his medbay in 7 years? He would definitely have detailed scans of them and their DNA. All it took to connect the Ba'ku and Son'a was a tricorder scan, afterall.
@davidford3115
2 жыл бұрын
Convergent evolution. There are numerous examples of radically difference species developing similar traits despite not having any exchange of genetic material. Bats and Birds, Dolphis and Sharks, Hedgehogs and Echidnas, Ostrich and emus just to name a few.
@marcusmanchester1995
2 жыл бұрын
@@davidford3115 I think that's more of a stretch. In the case of the animals you listed, they do share genetic material as they do have common ancestry at some point in their past. If a Bajoran transplanted onto another planet with it's own life, sometime in the last millennium (keeping in mind that the lightship Sisko built was an 800 year old design, how far into the past did the Bajorans build these ships?) would these transplanted Bajorans have time to acquire physical traits from native fauna and be there long enough to forget their orignis?
@davidford3115
2 жыл бұрын
@@marcusmanchester1995 Ah, but the examples I listed do NOT produce hybrid offspring. And you would be surprised at how quickly phenotypes change. Dogs are but one example of rapid change. Then you also have the Peppered Moth which drastically changed because of pollution. And of course, there is the various human ethnicities which all have specific characteristics and traits.
@andrewgru7077
2 жыл бұрын
They look more like the Vaadwaur, and given they were spreading before the Borg were much of a thing supports that. Likely a group that fled during the fall of their civilization. And because their military was mostly in cold sleep, it was their cultural leaders and people who would have made that trek and became cardassian.
@JohnCooper-gm6mn
2 жыл бұрын
Interesting take, I like it.
@ravenRedwake
2 жыл бұрын
5:22 huh, they’re kind of like the Federation from Starship Troopers (the Novel more than the movies), where the military took over from the civilians and assumed control over everything.
@DestovaWorks
2 жыл бұрын
Humans breeding with everything? (yes I said everyTHING) It tracks. This is a really neat concept, though, and seems to be backed by knowledge in canon like those solar ships. That is... kinda wild to think about and I guess we'll never truly know.
@clarky23
2 жыл бұрын
we just have a LOT of horn dogs on this big blue marble LOL
@chadwickmacarthur4760
2 жыл бұрын
Iv slowly become a fan of your wrk man I stumbled across one of your videos on the bajorans and now while I work and do my job I listen to you for hours at a time im a linemen but you make the day go by a little better keep up the content buddy
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
I’m glad I can help make your day better :)
@Eric-ch6gq
2 жыл бұрын
I think there's a couple possibilities. The Bajorans could have founded Cardassia and evolved to deal with the new environment. They could have inter bred with the Cardassians, passing stories of their home world and it's bounties, which lead the Cardassians to the eventual occupation, trying to reclaim their ancestors homeworld. Which would explain why they took it so hard when the Bajorans resisted so much. Or they met the ancient Bajorans and developed space travel to meet them. All in all, how the sound stopped when you mentioned the solar ship was made out of... wood... was perfect.
@heathm
2 жыл бұрын
Hmm, interesting. I had not considered this possibility. Although in my head cannon the Cardassians are a lost colony of the Vaadwaur. Possibly from a time period before the Vaadwaur became masters of underspace. Like a lost/crashed ship from a time period early in Vaadwaur history of expansion.
@heathm
2 жыл бұрын
@@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle To support this a bit: 1. we know that the Vaadwaur had interstellar/underspace mastered fairly early. Referencing they had been to Nelix's home planet using the old name for of Talax'ilzay. 2. They are well traveled using underspace visiting far off places like Talax. Plausible they traveled as far as Cardassia if not further. 3. Before the fall of the Vaadwaur's home world. They had Colonies and Outposts. 4. A little of a stretch here. But I believe the Vaadwaur kept highly secret information in memory and never written/recorded. 5. We also know that the Vaadwaur manipulate other cultures to service their own interest. In my head cannon, a small amount of Vaadwaur made it to ancient Cardassia after being seperated or unable to return back home. This could be because of a lost ship. (they did travel underspace by memory. People make mistakes or get lost all of the time) Or perhaps an early battle and the ship was damaged to the point it could no longer re-enter underspace. Or perhaps a outpost or small colony that was lost during the fall of the Vaadwaur empire. But in any case they were isolated and settled on ancient cardassia. Because of the small number of Vaadwaur. They end up co-oping a indigenous species on cardassia and increasing numbers via intermingling or genetics. All the while manipulating the indigenous. Though this would backfire and cause some civil wars and while victorious on Cardassia. It came at the cost of losing more of the cultural and technological memory of their own advancement and culture. Due to those losses, it became an incessant need to record everything. Giving birth to some of the cultural traits of modern cardassia. It's kinda loose I know and it is headcanon. But it does try to tie in some similarities in both looks and culture.
@Iceflkn
2 жыл бұрын
I think Dukat being able to host a Pah-Wraith while Sisko needed to be genetically, "engineered" to be compatible, might show he was, of Bajor.
@heathm
2 жыл бұрын
@@Iceflkn I'm not too familiar with that. But it would be inconsistent with Keiko O'Brian and Jake Sisko being hosts to Pah-Wraiths in earlier seasons. As I also understand it, Ben Sisko is part (half?) wormhole alien. So maybe Ben Sisko is the outlier?
@xxneroxxx4996
2 жыл бұрын
I don't really care about other trekkers so for people like me things like "I'm late to this topic" don't really mean anything to me I come to watch you and your thoughts alone, I recently started watching DS9 as a long time TNG fan and so I love seeing your opinion on the show.
@seekingabsolution1907
2 жыл бұрын
I propose an alternative theory, the cardassians had a history of cultural exchange with old Bajor that has since been forgotten. The bajoran explorers you mentioned landed on cardassia and simply integrated into the preexisting cardassian population, which already existed.
@canis2020
2 жыл бұрын
The Voth, while not being a direct ancestor, is a cousin as we are both vertebrates. This thought makes me happy on the inside bits.
@GoldenCroc
2 жыл бұрын
It amuses me that dinosaurs may canonically be the (or at least one of) most advanced corporeal lifeforms in the galaxy.
@canis2020
2 жыл бұрын
@@GoldenCroc it makes my wee heart happy
@joshchase6454
2 жыл бұрын
This is one of the more silly things about Star Trek. Inter species breeding is an oxymoron by itself, and as Carl Sagan said, a human is more likely to be able to breed with a tulip than an alien
@clarky23
2 жыл бұрын
good point, would the "parts" from humans and another species even properly "connect"???
@joshchase6454
2 жыл бұрын
@@clarky23 it would probably be something like trying to impregnate a cat with pollen from a flower, though at least they both fundamental things like DNA in common. That is not even likely with an alien
@thehumanoddity
2 жыл бұрын
It won't stop us from trying.
@ElderNewt
2 жыл бұрын
So the big question to ask: Should Starfleet have intervened in what could be.. an internal affair?
@phillipharris9845
2 жыл бұрын
I mean Starfleet only uses the prime directive as a shield to excuse themselves from hard choices anyway.
@Silvertip_M
2 жыл бұрын
The only thing that argues against this is the fact that Cardassian and Bajorans have clearly different DNA, no mention is made of the similarities between the two species at the genetic-level. The example of the Voth, they were clearly able to track a likely evolution of the species based on its clear similarities with earth-based species. It's doubtful that even 50,000 years of genetic drift and mutations would completely eliminate genetic similarities between the two species. The Romulans' isolation and lack of interaction with other species is what kept the link between them and the Vulcans hidden for so long...although it was widely speculated that they were related before it was proven. What I think is more likely is that the Bajorans who landed on Cardassia influence both Cardassian culture, and possibly even their genetics. For the ancient Bajorans to have known about contacts with Cardassia, some type of contact would have needed to be established...especially if these information survived thousands of years. It would make sense that if the Bajorans either regularly visited Cardassia, or found a way to communicate with their home planet, that they would have integrated with the society, and at least influence their culture and social evolution if not their genetics (through procreation) making successful hybridization more likely over time as the required genes spread through the genepool.
@anlumo1
2 жыл бұрын
It's also possible that in-universe, everybody knows of their common ancestry and so it's just never mentioned. We never get to see their DNA sequences (for obvious technical reasons), so we can't compare ourselves. It's also never mentioned in Enterprise that Porthos and Archer have common ancestry, because it's kinda a given for everybody on board the ship.
@Silvertip_M
2 жыл бұрын
@@anlumo1 Possible, but unlikely as the Cardassians would have likely used this as a way to justify the occupation. It would have been easy to spin it as Bajorans being the descendants of ancient Cardassians and hence making it about reclaiming a lost colony rather than occupying a neighboring world. Heck even if they didn't twist it around, they could just say that Bajorans were less-evolved versions of Cardassians and that they were just helping them reach a new stage of evolution. Another valid point is that with every other species with shared ancestry is brought up as a plot point in the lore. Bajorans and Cardassians having shared genetic heritage is not brought up as a plot point in either TNG or DS9. Heck, Seska in Voyager would have been a great person to use to bring up the common genetic ancestry...it would have made her argument about a bone-marrow transplant far more believable. I don't think it's impossible, but rather incredibly unlikely. If there were to use this as a plot point in Discovery or Picard, it would feel like a huge retcon to me, rather than a logical extension of the lore. But that's just me, and in the end it's fiction...so anything is possible.
@bigsprucerabbitry6238
2 жыл бұрын
@@Silvertip_M It could have been known but the Cardassians have seen it as something to be covered up and not discussed. Similarly Bajorans might have found it very taboo to discuss so no one wanted to poke that bear although it was commonly known.
@Silvertip_M
2 жыл бұрын
@@bigsprucerabbitry6238 Again, it's possible, but unlikely. Julian Bashir, especially in the first couple of seasons, wouldn't have really cared about the taboo, and the same is true for The Doctor on Voyager who examined Seska. There are just too many opportunities to have the genetic link being made clear. I would note that there are several plot points where Bajoran and Cardassian DNA being targeted by each group. In one case, Sisko and Kira triggered an old security program which tried to destroy the station when it detected Bajoran DNA in ops. The Bajorans tried to create viruses which would target Cardassians, which wouldn't be possible if they were closely related. Heck Zial would have been a really good person to highlight the shared ancestry between both species. There are just too many times where it would make sense to specifically mention the link, for it to be an intentional, yet unspoken plot point. They didn't even drop specific hints, and the majority of the basis for the theory spans half-a-dozen unrelated episodes. To me, it's at best a possibility which could be introduced without retconning major plot points...but would certainly create inconsistencies with some aspects of the lore. Again, not impossible, but very unlikely. The lore just makes a lot more sense if they aren't related than if they are.
@VelvetCondoms
2 жыл бұрын
I have an alternate theory that extrapolates from the same data. What if the Cardassians were an underclass species that left Bajor? There are multiple planets in Star Trek with multiple indigenous species of sentient life. Valakis, Earth, the rejected Federation candidate planet in the final season of TNG, and the Xindi homeworld are all such instances. Bajor would not be the only one. We know pre-occupation Bajor had a caste system. Lt. Kira's caste was one of artists. Every caste system has a population of marginalized people, so logically Bajor would've had one. A system that is so abusive to its own people can easily breed marginalization of other people. Perhaps the Cardassian founding population was a species which were marginalized on Bajor, left due to persecution, and ended up on Cardassia. This theory would explain why the two are genetically compatible but clearly distinct. Most of the evidence you brought up lines up with this theory as well. You could argue that the religious similarities and artistic similarities would poke holes in this theory of a persecuted people, but on earth, plenty of marginalized populations have adopted the religions of the oppressors. Artistic techniques are VERY fluid between cultures.
@Animalover205
2 жыл бұрын
This actually makes a who lot of sense, like a scary amount of sense really, which explains why the occupation was so brutal, after all, civil wars are the most bloody
@jefferynelson
2 жыл бұрын
31 days of heavy alcohol use cured my Section 31 brainwashing !! now I stay sloshed & play Star Trek Online ! not even noon & I'm opening a 4th Heineken, thanks Lore, without you it never would have happened
@Fayanora
2 жыл бұрын
The whole lightship thing was based on Thor Hyerdahl's research suggesting Egyptians could have crossed the Atlantic in their boats, along with other cultures that went long distances by boat, like the Phoenicians. The problem with adapting that to spaceships is how exactly did the Bajorans get off the planet if they were making wooden spacecraft? Though one possible answer for that is they had the tech to get off the planet and deliberately chose wood instead of metal because it was lighter than metal, maybe? Still seems to me like a wooden spaceship would leak like a sieve but whatever.
@grandsome1
2 жыл бұрын
Bajoran wood might be like steel or something.
@lezking5060
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it was some kind of genetic exchange from Cardassian Vole to Bajoran "colonist" that lead to the development of proto-Cardassians (along with environmental factors)? A bit like how the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis developed from those bugs that acquired/absorbed Human DNA!?!?
@MinionNumber3
2 жыл бұрын
Given the behavior of certain humans in Star Trek, I think it's far more likely a Bajoran landed on Cardassia, saw a Cardassian Vole, and decided procreation was the order of the day.
@480JD
2 жыл бұрын
The Bajorans reaching Cardassia 800 years ago is what tipped their hand to the Cardassians, lead to their occupation a few hundred years later when things got tough on Cardassia.
@BreakneckWorld
2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis my friend! Thank you!
@baltham0
2 жыл бұрын
Does anyone else remember that in TNG, Picard clearly stated that Bajoran recorded history was at least half a million years old. That's plenty of time for civilizations to rise and fall several times over and for a single species to branch out and produce multiple offshoots through divergent evolution. We've seen it in our fossil record and in our own evolutionary tree.
@HSR107
2 жыл бұрын
this is a fascinating and well documented theory. Kinda hope one of Kurtzman's teams pick up on it because I'd love to see it become canon.
@bendover9813
2 жыл бұрын
I always liked the idea of humans having some of the sturdiest and strongest bodies in the galaxy, considering our planet’s gravity is near the apex that would allow us to leave the planet.
@FireRevanShadow
2 жыл бұрын
I don't think Cardassians and Bajorans are the same species. We see lots of species interbreeding and creating hybrids. In the episode the chase, we find out that the reason so many species look like humans (other than because it is cheap and easy to shoot for production of television shows) is because an ancient humanoid species was alone in the galaxy and decided to introduce humanoid species across the galaxy. Seeing as there is now an intelligent designed galaxy for humanoids to exist, it makes sense that they can interbreed as someone literally designed them that way.
@daeron767
Жыл бұрын
For Goad's sake no, the reason the Cardassians didn't want to admit the Bajoran's had reached Cardassia would be because that is how they figured out interstellar travel by reverse engineering what brought one or more Bajoran light sail ships to their system; the inference in the episode is that there was some unobserved phenomenon connecting the two star systems (perhaps some side effect of the artificial worm hole).
@justiceag7753
2 жыл бұрын
I'd love if they made this into a story arc in a trek tv series I'd watch it
@JustAnotherHo
2 жыл бұрын
the writers did a lot of convenient things for the sake of plots. I love the hell outta all star trek, but massive plot holes, incomplete information and all that are excellent ways to get fans to ask things like what if, and leave room for future stories to be explained away next time. The sad thing was that when TNG Era ended, and we had this massive gap until the rebooted alt timeline, and even longer until Picard. The world has shifted it's views and beliefs and clearly modern writing reflects this, as it did between TOS and TNG. Tribbles in the DS9 were probably one of my favourite call backs ever.
@christopherdean1326
2 жыл бұрын
As has been mentioned before regarding another video about the Voth. There is absolutely no way that any computer could possible predict how a species would evolve. There are so many factors to take into account, any projection would be a wild guess at best.
@leGUIGUI
2 жыл бұрын
Why I do'nt think they are the same species and each developed on their own world, I actually believe that Bajor had an outpost in the early days of Cardassia and influenced that culture. After the coup, the power in pace tried to erase all evidence of outside influence to push the idea that Cardassian civilisation rose all on its own without external evidences.
@esgrove
2 жыл бұрын
They found the ancient wreckage of a single crashed solar ship. You're trying to extrapolate the plot of "Dune" from that evidence.
@leGUIGUI
2 жыл бұрын
@@esgrove No? To conclude that Bajor had some influence on Cardassia because one of their ship was found there is a reasonable conclusion. I am not even concluding they are the same species...
@esgrove
2 жыл бұрын
@@leGUIGUI The single crashed ship implies it was a one-time accident. Also the fact that both cultures have no mention of each other until they meet hundreds of years later.
@leGUIGUI
2 жыл бұрын
@@esgrove Saying it's a one-time incident is jumping to conclusion. It still means they had contact. Saying from that that an alien ship reaching your planet might have an impact on your culture is not too much reaching.
@esgrove
2 жыл бұрын
@@leGUIGUI It's a big assumption that there were other ships. It's a really big assumption that the first ship, which has to be launched from space, landed, fixed itself, and found a new way to launch from space. Bajoran solar ships don't do that. This lone crew of ancient Bajorans survived a crash in a very rickety ship that could not survive such a crash, and then build the means to launch it into space again on Cardassia, a planet without that technology. Then, they returned to Bajor someow, despite getting to Carsdassia by accident.
@Geminias
2 жыл бұрын
Distant Origin was one of the few episodes in the first 3 seasons of Voyager that I thoroughly enjoyed. Sure, it didn't make a ton of sense but it was unique and left a lot of interesting questions about how reptiles leaped modern development by millions of years. Also, I don't think they ever established what species the Bajorans evolved from but I think its more likely that the bajorans evolved from the cardassians and not the other way around.
@beareggers
2 жыл бұрын
What would be an interesting twist is if the Bajorans that reached Cardassia accidentally introduced foreign bacteria or viruses that lead to the collapse of Cardassia's agriculture. The destruction that would have followed could have turned Cardassia into the authoritarian empire that eventually spread to Bajor. I don't think the timelines line up though.
@alexandercaires5921
2 жыл бұрын
It's implied that the Cardassian economy crashed fairy recently in "Chain of Command" by how the Gul spoke about Cardassia in the past.
@whyjnot420
2 жыл бұрын
Please do not ignore the rest of this post if you don't feel like reading the nitpicking part, the 2nd half addresses coincidence. Perhaps this is nitpicking, but one of the key definitions for what constitutes a different species as opposed to a different group within a single species, is the inability to successfully produce offspring. So wouldn't it be more accurate, whenever talking about something like this, to say that they are sub-groups of the same species? Rather than saying that they are different species. If there is some kind of common ancestor, and there is the ability to procreate, this would make them sub-groups within one species. Another example is Space Battleship Yamato, where all of the humanoid groups are all actually human races of one flavor or another, with at least one being an artificial race designed for war, since they all (including regular, from Earth humans) offshoots from a single far older race (more or less). Although I cannot remember any specific examples of mixed race characters in the shows..... but then it has been a long time since I saw the old ones and I am fairly sure none are in the 2199/2202 reboot. caveat: In what I said above this I am only talking about situations where you do not need outside medical help to do this, only when it can occur naturally. addendum: On the nature of coincidence.... not a snowballs chance in hell. If procreation is possible without medical intervention, there is zero chance that is coincidence. There has to be _some_ connection. Just think about this, here on Earth, where every species is basically a cousin to every other species. This includes plants and everything, with a handful of _possible_ exceptions which have not actually been proven as of yet, like viruses. So you have plenty of places where the exact same environment, save tiny differences, produced wildly different and incompatible populations of various life forms. Yet humans can only procreate with other humans. AFAIK it is absolutely impossible to have a human-chimpanzee hybrid, yet we share 99% or so of our DNA with them.... that tiny difference is all it takes to make it impossible. So, any two groups in ST that can have kids with each other, even with medical intervention, would have to be more closely related than humans are to chimps. The common ancestor connection is the only one that really makes sense, both from a logical and storytelling perspective. If we theorize that DNA in the form we have is inevitable and the only way of doing it, that would still lead to life forms as different from us as any animal or plant on the planet is. addendum 2: Mass Effect has a hybrid of sorts that highlights the potentially radical differences if different forms of DNA are combined into a single being. The brutes, which are an artificially constructed amalgamation of two different species one using dextro-amino acids the other levo-amino acids (like we have), and even though they are fused with extremely advanced tech, even by the standard of the games universe, they are inherently unstable constructs as mentioned in the games codex. Unlike other similar amalgamations such as the Cannibals, which are made of levo-amino acid based species. That last bit about Mass Effect is really food for thought about biological compatibility, even with the addition of extremely advanced tech. Also to the best of my knowledge, all of the species in ST, which are shown in canon to have DNA are levo-amino acid based (like we are). edit: typo-acid based DNA is what I must have
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
This comment knows me to well X.x
@ScaryBaldMan
2 жыл бұрын
In my opinion it's more likely that ancient Bajorans found a near-intelligent species on Cardassia and elevated them, thus creating the Cardassians. Perhaps they used their own DNA to help in the process and that's why Cardassians and Bajorans are able to interbreed.
@gingergrant1057
2 жыл бұрын
That would fit Beta Canon’s creation myth of Cardassians.
@masterpython
2 жыл бұрын
Then Bajorans somehow lose that technology?
@gingergrant1057
2 жыл бұрын
@@masterpython Destroyed during the Occupation?
@canisarcani
2 жыл бұрын
oh gods the voth.... see, when the voth were first introduced, my incredibly naive kid brain at the time was happy: i thought it was cool and that voyager could have this whole meaningful arc of reintroducing the voth back to earths culture and the federation was going to gain a powerful new ally in the form of a long lost earth colony. .. and that ultimately the humans and the voth could form one of the strongest bonds in the federation since they hail from the same world. they could have used the voth as a means of telling a story about how we should be accepting of our fellow sentients and be willing to cooperate with individuals even if their religious leanings dont coincide with our own. theres a lot of things my poor naive child mind at the time was hopeful for... and then they turned the voth into a deep set religious cult that was essentially a pseudo medieval christian style religious government and peoples that were completely intolerant of absolutely anyone or anything that they deemed through incredibly vague terms to be different than them and were weak minded and willed that the mere thought that humans couldve evolved on their homeworld scared them beyond all reason. and refused to touch upon them ever again... the voth had sooo much potential and sure my thoughts on it when that first episode with them was first aired was... incredibly naive and a bit shallow (i mean cmon, i was... what? 7?) you gotta admit that the way they handled them was horrible.
@icecold9511
2 жыл бұрын
The pseudo medieval Christian thing wasn't an accident. A lot of it was basically borrowed from mistaken beliefs from history, like the Catholic church persecuting Columbus for believing the earth was round. By this time, it was accepted fact. Most believed it was far larger than Columbus believed, and that his mission was impossible. They were actually correct. He would have died at sea, save for the Americas.
@xanderguldie
2 жыл бұрын
Actually, I thought that was a good choice, although they could have expanded on the episode itself. It wouldn't make sense that a species that was technology superior to anything in the quadrant would immediately believe that they were abducted millions of years ago. The leaders also chose to disregard it because it would plunge society into chaos. At the end of the episode, the ones who did believe this theory were planning on spreading the word. Like I said, it would've been nice to follow up on that. They could've shown a revolution in the Voth home world, for example.
@icecold9511
2 жыл бұрын
@@xanderguldie They weren't abducted, it was an evacuation after a catastrophic event. Presumably the one off of the Yucatan peninsula
@Pandaemoni
2 жыл бұрын
I assume the genomes of the two species are known to medical science. If they were that closely related, surely Julian Bashirt or someone would have noted it. The similarity between the Vulcans and Romulans was noted many times. And oin Voyager, uncovering Seska's being a Cardassian would have been all that much harder if Cardiassians are really just a different type of Bajoran. I think it more likely that the spacefaring and stranded Bajorans taught the Cardassians their spirituality, art and culture. That would be in line with the will of the Prophets, who no doubt saw the eventual occupation of Bajor and that occupationn was needed for bajor's cultural development...so the Prophets influenced the Bajorians to build those solar sail vessels...
@YadraVoat
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for giving E.C. Henry the credit he diserves! 👍 EDIT: And _The Chase_ !
@mikenyc1501
2 жыл бұрын
When I saw the title, I thought ooh, time to watch.
@MedalionDS9
2 жыл бұрын
It's like the Baku and Son'a situation...Cardies and Jorans... probably related
@pirobot668beta
2 жыл бұрын
Can we agree that if has two legs, two arms, a head and a body, it can inter-breed with Humans? And if anything can breed with Humans, that mean anything breeds can breed with anything! This was touched on in a New Generation episode wherein it is discovered that an ancient progenitor race had 'seeded' humanoid life throughout the galaxy. Yeah, it's well known limitation of what the Costume Department can come up with when using human actors in rubber suits.
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
Plus, there was the TNG episode with Deanna talking about the scientist wanting her to share in some "empirical research" on "interspecies mating rituals."
@SenorGato237
2 жыл бұрын
I see one big problem with this analysis: the ancient Bajorans traveled to Cardassia thousands, maybe tens of thousands of years prior. The kind of genetic drift to go from Bajoran to Cardassian would have taken millions of years. Now, the ancient Bajoran colonists interbreeding with the ancient Cardassians, spreading their DNA, culture, and religion, is very plausible over that time frame. That's close to Humans breeding Neanderthal out of existence. Or perhaps the Cardassians were another genesis on Bajor, and got ejected from the planet politically/culturally/spiritually.
@Iceflkn
2 жыл бұрын
Dramatic changes can happen as quickly as one generation. In the United States a trend happened for men that had large ear lobes and could easily accommodate a gauge. These men were more successful with women and the trait of larger earlobes has become the most dominant earlobe shape in this country. This happened after one generation of...fashion...and we have forever altered a dominant trait among the American people. It's also theorized that if people colonize Mars that within one generation they will be taller and have less bone and muscle mass and be incompatible with Earth's gravity as a result.
@Dragonfryers
2 жыл бұрын
In an episode that had Benjamin and Jake take a non warp ship to cardassia. So very plausible.
@DarkLordofTheRizz
2 жыл бұрын
I actually believe it is the opposite. It's more plausible to believe the Bajoran's are an offshoot of Cardassia. My Evidence, somewhat circumstantial, based on observation: 1. Even if the Cardassians acknowledged that ancient Bajoran's were capable of FTL travel, this doesn't really diminish the idea that Cardassians had similar methods to get to neighboring planets. Even pre-occupation, Bajorans were about 150 years behind in technology compared to the major superpowers, whereas the cardassians were only about 50 years behind by TNG standards. They probably were faster innovators historically. These are strictly fan estimates based on the performance of Cardassian warships, and their limited Phaser bank technology. 2. This is just a personal gripe of mine, albeit a critque of the Cardassian designers, it seems rather odd, that if a species were to evolve from mammalians into humanoid lizards, wouldn't they lose their hair over the course of thousands of years of evolution? Even over the course of 200 years, we can see documented differences of human hand webbing receding, since in theory we evolved from basic sealife. It's more likely they began with that as an evolutionary adaptation based on their planet's environment after centuries of devlopment. As the environment changed from a rocky, heated Cardassia to a planet similar to earth such as bajor, isn't it plausible that these reptilians evolved into mammals similar to human? The Bajorans and Cardassians do have a defined head ridge feature in identical locations, the Bajoran's being different could be theirs receding after Thousands of years of adaptation.
@rodavoye3502
2 жыл бұрын
I have a strong counter argument. In "Star Trek Insurrection," Dr. Crusher is able to take a DNA scan of a fallen Sona soldier and then compare it with the DNA of the Baku. She did this with little effort using a standard medical tricorder and no laboritory to analyze the results. The Sona had some sort of degenerative deisease and their appearances were deceiving, but they ARE Baku. Also, it could be safely assumed that by the events of TNG, someone had acquired Romulan DNA and was able to confirm in a published and peer reviewed paper that Romulans ARE Vulcans. I find it hard to believe that if Cardassians ARE Bajorans, that nobody has been able to prove that through DNA analysis.
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
With in several series including DS9 and Voyager - Cardassians are notorious for not sharing things and even hiding stuff requiring deep, deep scans to determine their origins.. and it wouldn't be the first time a retcon like this happened ;P But yea, at some point you'd think scanners would pick that up
@Iceflkn
2 жыл бұрын
The nice part of such things is that it allows room for writers to do recons
@winterkyomoon7096
2 жыл бұрын
The Baku and Sona example keeps being brought up but isn't useful in comparison. The Sona scanned were literally children of Baku who were there. The Sona did not become a divergent race they were a split faction that after leaving the planets metaphasic radiation began to age unlike their parents. They looked messed up and different because it was their attempts to reproduce the anti-aging effects they grew up in. They wanted the radiation to solve their problem of not finding a successful solution to prolong their lives like the rest of their people. And besides scans are not always able to instantly tell some things. Seska was a full blooded Cardassian made to appear as much as possible Bajoran. Short of changing out all of her DNA traces of being Cardassian should show easily. However if Cardassians and Bajorans have a genetic relationship, the scans may not have noticed because they might scan similarly. And the production of hybrids with no medical assistance unlike many of the other cross species hybrids also lends to the similar genomes. It may be that the only significant differences in their DNA are the genes for outward appearance which would possibly be a small amount of their overall genome.
@robertagu5533
2 жыл бұрын
*Gasp* Damar and especially Dukat are shocked.... Garek is smirking.... And the Obsidian Order would like word Lore...
@obsidianorder1
2 жыл бұрын
I like the idea. I choose to believe; and I think it makes the violent history between them more meaningful which makes DS9 a better show
@Vipre-
2 жыл бұрын
Coincidence. Bajoran lightships were only 800 years old or so when Sisko sailed to Cardassia. That's way too short a period for the Cardassians and Bajorans to differentiate so much.
@ilovemonkeyos
2 жыл бұрын
I haven’t seen TNG in forever and without going through the entire series wouldn’t be able to pinpoint the scene and episode. But. IS that a Changeling/Founder, and/or even the same actress that plays the female Founder (main villain/leader/representative) of the Dominion, at the 3-minute point?! She looks, and even sounds, just like her! If so, that’s a really cool carry-over; like how Marc Alaimo plays the first Cardassian in TNG, to then play Dukat in DS9, or the same with Armin Shimmerman with Quark.
@chrisdupuis2523
2 жыл бұрын
Same actress, very similar appearance. Unfortunately for trek this isn't uncommon, they routinely use the same actors and assets for different purposes.
@ilovemonkeyos
2 жыл бұрын
I mean, I dig it. I find it really cool to see recurring actors, especially when it’s across different gaps of time, or even shows. Some of the actors/actresses are good at what they do. Even cooler (to me) when they play different characters very convincingly (like how up until recently I had no idea the guy that plays Weyoun also plays Brunt). Or how the guy that plays Martok also plays the Vulcan redshirt in the pilot episode of DS9. She def looked familiar though. Weirdly, it was her nose and sides of the mouth that hinted to me + the way she stood. Hell, even the outfit is extremely similar to the one used when she plays the Founder. (: Like a Founder precursor, really. Lol.
@gvstaden1
2 жыл бұрын
That is what makes Star Trek great.
@CaseyOntiveros
2 жыл бұрын
It could be a reverse. The possible original Bajorans came back through the worm hole, (S02E10) could have been the original inhabitants before an exodus, those left behind had cross bred with Cardassians who came on the lightships. Those new Bajorans and Cardassians made the trip back and forth before a dark age happened and each civilization lost information and had to rediscover it over time.
@kennethcook9406
2 жыл бұрын
Oh crap, at 1:17 that's Kasouf from Stargate. And he was also the head librarian in The Mummy
@BlackBearCrypto
2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video...and thumbnail 😉
@jasonworlock5113
2 жыл бұрын
One thing I think should be noted it the Bajoran and Cardassian being able to breed means nothing. We are led to believe because of Ambassador K'Ehleyr, Phlox, and Bashir make it sound difficult for two different species from having a baby. However, in those cases, it was the first known case of a hybrid. For Phlox he said it could be difficult for Humans and Vulcans to have children together when he examined Elizabeth but he had previously met a human/Vulcan in Lorain and we all know Spock. K'Ehleyr was the first Human/Klingon but then we are introduced to B'Elanna. Finally, Bashir was researching Klingon/Trill being able to have children but again he had met hybrids of Klingon/Trill in Brota. Also, let's not forget that Seska, a Cardassian, and Culluh, a Kazon, were able to have a child and it was very unlikely that they did anything medically to achieve this as Seska was trying to have Chakotay's baby.
@maisiesummers42
2 жыл бұрын
Something important with all those hybrids is that we're not told if medial help was required in the conception or not. We don't know if Spock was naturally conceived, and have never been told. Also, most of those examples come approx. 160 years after Phlox's adventures on the NX-01, so it's possible medical science has advanced and made things much easier.
@darkleome5409
2 жыл бұрын
What is this, Stellaris?
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
Maaaaaybe
@theloneomega574
2 жыл бұрын
Wood is not a horrible material for spacecraft, actually. Scientists are looking to make satellites now that largely involve specially-treated wood in their design. Communication signals can pass through wood as easily as visible light through glass instead of having to make a "window" in a metal frame and the wood could have adequate strength while being lighter (and thus MUCH cheaper to put in orbit). If you want to speculate whether wood could survive a warp jump without deflectors well....I doubt pre-warp metals would fare much better anyways.
@psoma_brufd
2 жыл бұрын
Well the circumstance certainly seems near identical to the Vulcans and Romulans in all bar the Romulan sect intentionally left due to disagreement but since we don't know the reasons for isolation, it is possible that is also the same. Furthermore, it is likely the travel to what would become Cardassia was one way and since they had no faster than light communication, any colony on that planet is by default cut off from Bajor and will develop separately.
@Teampegleg
2 жыл бұрын
Kirk attempted to breed with nearly every alien woman he ever met. The real reason that Gorn attempted to kill Kirk, Kirk slept with the Gorn's wife during Kirk's last shore leave.
@edwardwood6532
2 жыл бұрын
This is canon.
@jintermax1073
2 жыл бұрын
or Cardassian were highly influenced by some interstellar bajoran travelers in the past
@idontknowyou6319
2 жыл бұрын
It would be ironic if ancient Bajorans “ruined” Cardassia by introducing art and spirituality (causing changes in their culture leaving them unable to deal with lack of resources) leading them to become a facist empire, to eventually ruin Bajor.
@rolypoly4920
2 жыл бұрын
Isn't there a source that says that the ancestor of Cardassians was a species of lizard found on Cardassia? I remember it being a line from a game when your science officer was talking about them.
@JimPlaysGames
2 жыл бұрын
It seems to me if it were the case it would be a simple matter of looking at the genetic codes of Bajorans and Cardassians. If they have a common ancestor it would be evident there. One particularly gifted Starfleet doctor who had access to Cardassians and Bajorans might have noticed this. Since he never said anything about it, I find it doubtful. But the idea that Bajorans brought some of their culture to Cardassia is much more likely.
@TheGreatGooglyMoogly430
2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps they were separate species on separate planets that were made compatible by the descendants of the ancient Bajoran astronauts and the native Cardassians interbreeding. Similar to how Valen made Humans and Minbari compatible.
@wilsonwade2238
2 жыл бұрын
love this theory excellent breakdown
@blu5543
2 жыл бұрын
Im Convinced you deliberatly omitted the Son'a and the Backu... but yes Trek has a lot of this, it wouldnt surprise me.
@djcruiselover3827
2 жыл бұрын
Love the thumbnail of Kira
@warriorthawitt9971
2 жыл бұрын
I have two points: 1-Would just 10 or 20,000 years be enough to turn the Bajorans into a completely different and new race i.e. the Cardassians and 2-How many Bajorans would be needed to colonize Cardassia and to expand the population into the billions over time enough to form an entire interstellar empire?
@richardsaunders9412
Жыл бұрын
Definitely a possibility. If you could get to other planets, there would be a shift. But it would take a while. it's fun to think about
@stevenclark2188
2 жыл бұрын
Also, the relatively extreme differences could have been increased by founder effects from having a low starting population.
@diebesgrab
2 жыл бұрын
Didn’t the lightship reach Cardassia 800 years ago? 800 years is a really short time for a colony so small it could be forgotten to reach a population where millions can starve and still pull through. It’s a really short time for a spacefaring civilization (which presumably would keep comprehensive written records) to forget their own origins. I don’t want to get too much into evolution since, canonically speaking, Trek universe evolution works COMPLETELY differently to how we understand it to work in real life, but it still seems like a ludicrously short time for two populations of the same species to differentiate into completely different species, though I suppose we do have the Romulans and Vulcans contradicting that idea; they at least look virtually the same, though, and have been separated for at least slightly longer by the first time they meet again. It also seems like it would be pretty difficult, even for an absolute fascist government, to completely obscure the fact that they’ve occupied their home planet for less than a millennium from the entire population and the galaxy at large.
@aaronwishard7093
2 жыл бұрын
The particular individual solar ship that Sisko used was 800 years old, what if the technology was a few thousand. Let's low ball and say it's 2? Obviously we're still pushing the boundaries of what we know of biology, as well as the cultural aspect you spoke of, but what if like the Romulans, the Cardassian Bajorans didn't actually like that they came from Bajor? Hypothetically here, the initial colonists were the surviving cult of the pagh wraiths? Thus with all of the Kool Aid drinking they seem to have they might have been a very spiritually focused people, but as the one Gul said, it didn't put bread on the table. So they abandoned everything that they knew from Bajor and the only people who care would be Central Command. Thus why they tried to stop Sisko from doing the trip and proving them wrong when anyone with records that old, like CC, would know that they could and would make the trip just fine. I say CC has the records since they probably burned the Bajoran copies, but they're too stupid to burn their own copies to use as blackmail for some boss somewhere that probably even retired by the time the information came to the galactic public
@bookman7409
2 жыл бұрын
You and Aaron bring valid points to the table, but here's my view. It's quite possible that the Bajoran colonists on Cardassia ran into one or more problems that their tech couldn't handle, and they didn't have the mastery of older, obsolete, but still useful tech skills to back them up. This is similar to the European colonization of the Americas, as many colonies failed because their tech didn't work, but the tech of their ancestors might have. Regardless, the disruption of a high-tech culture that sends them back to, say, the steam age, is bound to wreak havoc on information storage. So it seems to me quite plausible for them to have had a catastrophic collapse, 800 years prior, and lose the cultural connection to the memory hole. Hell, the change of Greek culture from before to after the Bronze Age Collapse likely was about as much of a disconnect, and in less time. Something similar goes for the Kingdom eras of Egypt. So yeah, leaving the DNA aside, the cultural disconnect isn't just plausible, it has multiple historical precedents. Something to think about, anyway.
@SapSapient
2 жыл бұрын
@Brad Grant For what we are talking about here? Yes. Extremely short.
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
In the TOS episode, "The Omega Glory," there is a deleted scene where Bones and Spock come to speculate that the Yangs and Coms are descendants of American ("Yankee") and Chinese ("Communist") space colonists. It was cut out, presumably because it was realized at the last minute that the writers overreached that awesome conclusion by overextending lifespans (one unseen character was said to be "over a thousand [years old]"), and cutting that whole conclusion was easier than dubbing over the age overreach. Too bad, as it would be a model for such loss in information.
@wepntech
2 жыл бұрын
@@TommygunNG I've seen that episode. the yanks and comms are still ther. kirk even reads the American declaration of independence at the end of the episode.
@ryanconrad2786
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the bajoran settlers interbred with the First Hebitian civilization on Cardasia, that would account for the drastic change to their look.
@thepropagandastudiosbrigs0927
2 жыл бұрын
maybe they have an even older common ancestor. each one is a colony of a now lost civilization that took different routes
@hallgreeny
2 жыл бұрын
You could tell if cardissians evolved on cardassia prime or bajor just by looking at the dna. It would be a well known fact if they had a common or close ancestor
@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502
2 жыл бұрын
Given how easily they were able to tell the voth originated from earth in voyager, despite the voth leaving earth before the ancestors of humans had even started walking upright, if the cardassians came from Bajor then even basic scans would be able to tell that. That's why I don't buy this theory, there's no way they wouldn't already know it if it was true.
@bigsprucerabbitry6238
2 жыл бұрын
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Can you image how politically charged that fact would be? My thinking is it was common knowledge but never talked about just as talking about Trump or the pope over Thanksgiving dinner is best avoided.
@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502
2 жыл бұрын
@@bigsprucerabbitry6238 I can buy that happening among cardassians and bojorans, but there's no way it wouldn't have been brought up by someone who was from neither planet.
@elainaswanson4364
2 жыл бұрын
I cannot believe i am just now seeing that the figure in Common Ancestors is the changeling leader
@Slevin-Kelevra
2 жыл бұрын
The Reemens may also be Vulcuns as well
@LoreReloaded
2 жыл бұрын
Yea, never really thought of that
@temmy9
2 жыл бұрын
i would say that the bajorans influenced the ancient cardassians, a kind of erich von daniken thing. How ironic would it be if the ancient cardie religion worshiped ancient bajoran visitors.
@howardlanus8467
2 жыл бұрын
On the issue of religion, one can argue that fascism is a form of religion. Religions rely on a set of assumptions shared by a community to enforce conformity, establish identity, and rally support toward specific goals, with dissenters or free-thinkers being punished to one degree or another (ostracism at one extreme, executions at another). Fascism is basically the same thing, with the only difference being which entity receives the worship of the community: for religions, the entity/entities are supernatural beings; for fascism the entity is the state. With Cardassians the state is basically a god: all-powerful, all-knowing, and never wrong. You see this in the judicial system (the verdict is always known before the trial begins, and it is always the same, all to prove the infallibility of the state and the futility of crime), the secret police, the blind obedience to authority, etc. This reinforces the idea that Bajorans and Cardassians originated from the same planet, with the latter adapted to local conditions to become what we see in canon.
@stevenjlovelace
2 жыл бұрын
I think it's possible that the Cardassians are part Bajoran. Maybe the people evolved separately, but were heavily influenced by Bajorans.
@nathanielmonroe3057
2 жыл бұрын
I think we need more firm numbers on the timeline. The Voth had 65 million years to evolve. I don’t know if all that time is necessary for the process of course but I still think the window would have to be pretty wide. Fun idea, way too many unanswered questions. If we have an idea of how old the Bajoran civilization is then we can better assess imo.
@abycarroll275
2 жыл бұрын
As much as I love this theory, the character of Seska on Voyager kinda debunks the shared lineage based on sexual compatability idea. Seska thought she had been impregnated with a human baby through artificial means, but really gave birth to hybrid Kazon/Cardassian, without any medical intervention. It seems Cardassians are simply extremely fertile and can likely breed with most humanoids without medical intervention. I think all humanoids in star trek share a common heritage since they were all seeded by the progenitors.
@bigsprucerabbitry6238
2 жыл бұрын
Good one! Could her medical intervention that would have allowed her to be impregnated with a human baby also have worked to create the hybrid Kazon/Cardassian baby? The extra fertility is not a Cardassian trait normally but a Seska thing.
@TheBlindDyslexic
2 жыл бұрын
Look Thals and Kaleds from Skaro, they Shared that world, prior to one becoming the Daleks, with Doctor Who Mondians (who would become Cybermen) and Earthlings (the Tenth Planet)
@lewmills8560
2 жыл бұрын
Going along with your theory, I had my own that another race could have come from Bajor which was only seen in DS9, the Skreea. Just like your theory, it is all circumstantial, but it does fit the evidence presented in DS9, as these people only appeared on one episode.
@Newspeak.
2 жыл бұрын
Is there a date for when Bajorans achieved faster then light travel? Was there enough time for evolutionary pressures to create an entirely different species? Star Trek doesn’t seem to venture into those kind of time scales very often.
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
"The Road Not Taken," by Harry Turtledove: Other civilizations develop space travel early on, but other science and tech doesn't proceed beyond Earth year 1700. Like those Bajoran ships?
@beneficent2557
2 жыл бұрын
I miss reading his books. What happened to him?
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
@@beneficent2557 Look him up. He's still writing.
@beneficent2557
2 жыл бұрын
@@TommygunNGAll I want to know is where is his HBO deal?
@TommygunNG
2 жыл бұрын
@@beneficent2557 I'd love to see "Southern Victory" as a miniseries. But we'd be lucky to get "The Road Not Taken" crowdfunded into a low-end fan production. Just not enough of a market out there. Plus, some of his older stuff isn't all that Woke.
@Interitus1
2 жыл бұрын
I think from a storytelling point of view. There was great potential in the Cardassians thinking they were superior but ultimately they were either Bajoran's or they descended from the same species as Bajoran's (I like this more). But as the war took up much of DS9, this would have been something to explore in a later season.
@Chaosmage42
2 жыл бұрын
its 50/50 either way, i don't know what to say, the question of what the cardassians have done to hide their past and the bajorans past is a mystery worth exploring
@lokisgodhi
2 жыл бұрын
The Voth being evolved from dinosaurs ties in with Doctor Who's Silurians and what we know of them.
@jmcasler1512
2 жыл бұрын
They also both have nose ridges. That has to count for something.
@pongel7447
2 жыл бұрын
In my understand Cardassian are The Hebitian lost colony The cross breed like Ziyal maybe came from Cardassian planet adaptive gene because Cardassian well known about their organic technology
@comentedonakeyboard
2 жыл бұрын
Since Kirk discovered a Bunch of Human looking Aliens every second Episode anything is possible in the Trek Universe
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