Imagine a chess board where the 2 players have to bring their own pieces and pieces cost $20-$40 each, a player brings pebbles representing the pieces but still do the same thing, there’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
But what if the person using the pebbles said all the pebbles are Queens and the other persons playing with a $20 full set with pawns and such? Regardless, thanks for stopping by and thanks for commenting!
@the_devils_jester
5 ай бұрын
For proxys there is only 1 valid question: Do you want to spend hundreds of dollars/euros on a single cardboard rectangle? If not then use proxys. It is respectable to not use them and work with what you have, but i do not expect others to actually buy things like the original dual lands.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for commenting!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
It's nice to own dual lands and as someone who has them I'd rather keep them safe then show them off since there are sticky fingers out there
@kensey007
5 ай бұрын
I held off on using any proxies for twenty years. But M30 made two things clear. One, wotc was never ever going to print affordable power nine. And two, wotc is fine with people playing proxies. So my gloves are off.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
I agree and am now starting to use more proxies (in moderation) especially after having this talk with @CptWaffles87 =)
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
I see nothing wrong with proxies especially since wotc made them
@DirtySnowman439
5 ай бұрын
in the groups i play in we have the same rule, if you own it you can proxy it. not gonna make someone get 20 copies of say Urza's Saga to fill out their decks at $30 each, or make them sleeve/desleeve between games.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Its a good rule!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Totally agree with this
@Willsr14
5 ай бұрын
I've heard so many flawed arguments as to why proxies are bad, so I'll try to dispel them all quickly: "Rares are suppose to be rare, any card can't be any other card" - Rarity is artificial and only functional for draft. "Proxying a card as something loses WotC money on the price of the card you're proxying" - Totally false, Wotc doesn't sell singles. "Not owning the cards means you're not actually playing real magic" - The cards are nothing more than accessories to the game, the rules and logic are what the game is. Cards are visual representations of mechanics. "It's about collecting cards" - Card collection is a seperate entity to playing the game. "Winning with proxies is cheap and not really a win" if you lose to proxies you would've also lost to the same real cards, stop looking for excuses to why you lose. "But a casual deck is only X dollars, why bother proxying?" If you only want to play with my wallet, you're more of a problem with the community than I am. "You're committing IP fraud" - No, I am absolutely not. Sticking an image in a word document and printing it off is not IP fraud, you absolute clown. "But it's trying to pass off as the real thing" - No, it's not. You're thinking of counterfeits, which are not the same. Counterfeits should be illegal, but proxying is not trying to be the real thing and actively shows it to not be real, hence the word 'proxy'. "But what about the artists that need paying at WotC?" First off, not my responsibility how a company pays their staff. Secondly, don't lecture me on artists when WotC lay off their staff and announce they'll be using AI in future. Shill elsewhere. "If everyone proxied, WotC wouldn't profit" - Again, not my responsibility. It is the company's resposibility to make a profit. They are not owed existence. Welcome to free market, as intended. It costs them the same to print black lotus as it does to print storm crow. Whichever is in my pack, it gets put into a sleeve and used as something else. "It's immoral" - Don't bother convincing anyone with two brain cells that the company that sold non-tournament-legal proxies for $1000 has any sort of moral high ground over a guy with an office printer. Gte outa here and grow up. "It devalues my collection." Sounds like a you problem. WotC devalue your collection with every new powercrept card and reprint. Go whinge at them. "What about people who want to play with real cards?" No one is stopping you. I believe in personal liberty, you play with 'real' cards, I play with proxies, we shouldn't infringe on each other's ability to do so. "People who proxy just build the best decks." - That's not a proxy issue, that's a power level issue. There's plenty of people who spend thousands on the best cards and ruin their casual groups.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Well said and agree 100% with you on all these points.
@SFTortoise
5 ай бұрын
I don't think Cpt Waffles is made of real wafles? He's a Proxy!
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
LOL!!!!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Still tasty though
@pe-ka1844
5 ай бұрын
that chess comparison must be bait, right?
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching and for asking! No, it was not meant as 'bait' of any kind. ... this is a tough one to explain so again I am glad you ask. What I was tiring to get at it feels weird calling the cards 'game pieces' (but, what else would you call them??!!) .... ANYHOW, I could not think of any game off the top of my head were they game pieces have a value assigned to them and were individual units. I am sure that there are other games out there, I just couldn't think of anything but Chess. What other game is like Magic that has game pieces that can be mixed and matched to play? Even as I type this I feel I am not adequately getting to the point I was trying to ask! I guess Poker would have been a better game to state, since the values are fixed BUT change depending on the state of the game. Ugh, I don't know if any of this even makes sense. Let me just say again thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
That was one sexy guest you had 😂
@OmegaMTG
5 ай бұрын
I used to be against proxies when I was new to magic but over time I realized that I wanted to play the player not their wallet. When WoTC put out their own proxies my attitude shifted even more. I no longer care about proxies or WoTC at all. I will start using them now. I've already been priced out of magic anyways.
@OmegaMTG
5 ай бұрын
There is also no reason to put the magic back on a proxy. Sleeve them and play.
@kensey007
5 ай бұрын
@@OmegaMTG the printer I most recently used will not print the official Magic back. Which is cool. I totally agree counterfeits are not ok.
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Plus most of the time proxies are used are non tournament magic. I believe casual should be fun and is exactly why I have a proxied set of power 9 for my cube. To have fun with powerful cards
@mightythor-9286
5 ай бұрын
i know a guy who wanted to play legacy because modern was out of season at all our shops. He wanted to play Monday legacy but does not want to pay $1000 for 2 underground seas. So I'm not mad at someone that is gatekept out a format were we want all the players we can get behind 2-6 lands that will set them back $1-$3k is insane.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Legacy and Vintage are dead formats for this reason and will only be playable again if proxies were allowed for people to play them.
@Barry-x9o
5 ай бұрын
Been playing regularly since revised. My stance on proxies have been pretty light. Used to be if you own it proxies are fine. Now after the last 5 to 6 years prices when insane. Now I'm like proxie are completely fine. The market was inflated. Standard players remember how things used to be
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment! How do you feel about people that proxie 90% of a deck and want to Pub Stomp people? ... Does allowing proxies matter then? Or is that more about the person and their motives for playing the game? ... I more or less agree with you, I am much less caring about proxies these day especially now that WOTC prints them!
@CptWaffles87
5 ай бұрын
Yeah Pepperidge farm remembers when standard was cheap lmao. Agree 100%
@Barry-x9o
5 ай бұрын
@@tibaltsapprentice exactly and they have printed them before with the championship edition decks. Some of those cards are high value like Gaea's cradle. Pub stomping I guess goes more under sportsmanship and mortality, but I remember getting stomped back in the day game after game, that leads to two extremes players leaving the game or inspiring competition gameplay. I like new blood in the game. I think they can understand the game better sometimes. With years of rule changes sometimes I mix old rule with new.
@tibaltsapprentice
5 ай бұрын
@@Barry-x9o Yeah, I am still kikcing myself for not buying some of those decks back in the day!!! LOL
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