you guys are inspiring me to finally pull trig and start my build! your passion is infectious, great job boys
@toko7746
Жыл бұрын
Thats what happened to me too lol. Now I have 3radios, 4drones and been flying like hell. best decision in a long time to start fpv hobby
@lightpeixinho7830
Жыл бұрын
Well Said!!
@BelieveInYeshua
Жыл бұрын
Pulling clean air is significantly more efficient than pushing obstructed air. This raging debate has been resettled many times in aircraft engineering. A few aircraft manufacturers who built pusher planes even reverted back to tractor (puller) configurations later. Conveniently, it’s also easier to engineer control surfaces behind a tractor configuration; plus, these surfaces will also have more authority behind, rather than in front of, the blown air. Cooling the motor behind a propeller is another advantage of a tractor configuration that reduces heat wear and improves dependability. I hope this was helpful! I LOVE THIS CHANNEL! Thanks for another fantastic experiment, guys!
@traumaduo
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely YESSS on 12"19' and you should maybe try to put the arms down instead of on the top.
@lee8org
Жыл бұрын
Personally I did something similar about 5 years back just for camera to have clear view. My setup was 5" drone running 6" props on 4S. Front motors on the bottom and the rear on top with 3D printed spacers. That was back with DJI Ocusync or Digital FPV System The First digital air unit from DJI.
@h3rtz
Жыл бұрын
how did that fly? I’m about to try smth similar.
@lee8org
Жыл бұрын
@@h3rtz It flu fine only it would've been great to have little lower KV motors and better props. My were 2250KV 2204 if I remember correctly cheap motors. Flight time was not great so I added bigger battery to chase planes and later GoPro 3. Then the battery was getting little too hot and I did kill couple of old batteries in the process.
@air-headedaviator1805
Жыл бұрын
Multi rotor aerodynamics are so weird, but as a fixed wing hobbyist I’ve done a bit of studying on pusher props. Aerodynamically, propellers have kind of a weather vane effect; for a plane, you get more longitudinal stability with a pusher prop vs a tractor propeller all things equal (or as equal as possible). Supposedly, doing a “pusher” prop setup would make your kwad more stable, and at that *less* agile in freestyle. Stability is great for a cinema setup but not aerobatics, so in this case, pusher perhaps is way worse for freestyle drones.
@willytrumpold3179
11 ай бұрын
I think you guys missed a serious point in your setup unless uiu just didn't show it,, You have to tune it differently when you push instead of pulling through the arms vs pulling accessed for the push Hensel the "Slower responses" to movements up the rates and use good solid supermarket on power input!;-)) thanks for the ideas 💡 guys Bravo miss that stuff 👏 👍 😉 😄
@p39483
Жыл бұрын
"God damn the pusher." -Steppenwolf
@the_darkside_fpv
Жыл бұрын
@rotor riot what about a mid mount frame but make it a pusher!!! That would be fun 🤔
@rydfree
Жыл бұрын
But how would it feel it you put the front motors on the bottom and rear motors on the top ? Hmmmmm
@thelemonenergy609
Жыл бұрын
What if you mount the motors normally and make the drone a pusher by configuring it upside down in betaflight. Then only change the camera angle and fly it upside down.
@neilfpv
Жыл бұрын
roll rates could be low which made it feel like underpowered
@skippyfpvexperimentalrc6755
Жыл бұрын
AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
@marshallfpv392
Жыл бұрын
Why didn't you do a side-by-side comparison? You can't compare two things without a baseline...
@leflamantrosefpv1725
Жыл бұрын
why put the drone upside down? if it is not to have the propellers in the field it was necessary to put the engines upside down, and keep the frame in normal position..
@santi6355
Жыл бұрын
Get a vulture frame
@stillededge
Жыл бұрын
Ok...well...here is my prediction: not much different at all until...you land. 🤦🏼♂️
@globaldeception7414
8 ай бұрын
I lost brain cells watching this.. i gotta go get them back
@MactacFPV
Жыл бұрын
I've done a bunch of testing on a thrust stand on push/pull, and I've found that pulling is more efficient, likely because the airflow is better over the stator for cooling.
@scottwilliamson3210
Жыл бұрын
They flipped the motors without flipping the props, it's like putting freestyle props on your quad upside down.
@DaddySaysNo
Жыл бұрын
@@scottwilliamson3210 2:55
@CantFly_FPV
Жыл бұрын
@@scottwilliamson3210 this is what I came to the comments to find out. If they didn’t flip the props then it’s essentially like 3d flying upside down. Sure it will create enough lift to fly but it’s grossly underpowered.
@TheVignazio123
Жыл бұрын
I think the biggest difference in how it feels to fly would be in the center of gravity vs center of thrust. When they flipped the drone upside down, they put the lipo on what was the bottom of the frame, putting it on top. So the center of gravity is probably about an inch to an inch or two higher than the center of thrust. This is probably what PDEVX meant by it has a pushy feel and a reluctance to roll.
@toko7746
Жыл бұрын
Exactly. The force is apllied from slightly different position so that would make a difference what could be felt but then again is such a minor change so.. maybe really seasoned pilot can actually feel thr difference. Bilnd test would prove it
@scottwilliamson3210
Жыл бұрын
They mounted the motors upside down but didn't flip the props to compensate.
@clatheho
Жыл бұрын
@@scottwilliamson3210 if this is actually true then this is a huge whoops and this comment needs more likes
@lievenvv
Жыл бұрын
Isn't that the rocket fallacy? Moment of inertia does matter though.
@SkyCandyVisuals
Жыл бұрын
Ive been doing this for years. But not many people watch my videos. I even went as far as flying 7" props on a 5" source one with front motors inverted and rear motors normal. Thrust to weight ratio is insane. But i guess i should of sent it to you guys to gain some traffic traction. 😕 it flew great. Even chased some drift cars with it on 6" arms and 8" props
@SkyCandyVisuals
Жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/pm2wl5eDmn-Ia2U 7" props 5"drone 6s lipo no props in view
@lievenvv
Жыл бұрын
That's dope :) I once fit 3" props on a 2.5" by raising the rear motors a little bit, and having the props overlap ever so slightly. Flew better than on 2.5"!
@Hexalyse
Жыл бұрын
pulling or pushing air through the arms DOES make a difference. Air that is pushed by a fan goes mostly one direction, but air can be sucked from any direction into the fan (that's why we feel a very strong "wind" after the prop, but not before the prop). As for the person who feels a difference, only one way to know if it's placebo : blind test.
@Nupid_Stoob
Жыл бұрын
You should have had a quad with "normal" configuration as well and compare them directily to eachother. Just speculating if it feels different but not actually testing anything made the Video feel like it had no point lol just 4 Guys under a Gazebo having a blast, flying a quad, chatting a bit Still watched it and I like you guys, not complaining on that side, but the Title had my expectations up a bit. I missed a real conclussion and takeaway..
@Drunken_Hamster
Жыл бұрын
You guys should run reverse motor direction anyway. It flings dirt away from the lens and gives the rears access to cleaner air.
@lievenvv
Жыл бұрын
Also helps ploughing through straggle, pushing branches away instead of grabbing them
@Drunken_Hamster
Жыл бұрын
@@lievenvv It might "grab" them more from the sides, though.
@paulfpv
Жыл бұрын
Hi guys! Are you 100% shure the props where mounted correctly, so that the rounded side is up and flat side at bottom when the quad is in ready to flight position? (the props should be facing the same as before the pusher changes)… I ask because it would be an easier mistake because you are not used to screw them on reversed.. 🤷🏻♂️ This could explain the lack of power
@Boonek
Жыл бұрын
Props are on right, you can see it at 4:11
@sveinjohansen6271
Жыл бұрын
The flat carbon fiber rod to the motor is not aero dynamic at all. Try 3D print aerodynamic V shape on both sides where the prop is, and then try with both configurations, and as pusher, make sure motor rods are on top to ch he weight balance. There’s a reason dji drones have aerodynamic rods to the motors.
@Drakorianowl
Жыл бұрын
2 up 2 down? 🤔
@RotorRiot
Жыл бұрын
Would be interesting, should try it!
@TechTimeElectronics
Жыл бұрын
Bobby didn't get a proper fly cuz Drew smashed it up right before he flew it
@MadDragon75
Жыл бұрын
Mechanically speaking, When you turned it into a pusher, you changed the performance of the motor. Normally when the props are on top It's pulling the shaft up away from the stator reducing mechanical drag. With the motors inverted ... this may heat the motor faster and reduce performance.
@MadDragon75
Жыл бұрын
It may also reduce the life expectancy of the bearings.
@jordigrau83
Жыл бұрын
There's also a cooling problem because airflow to the stator is blocked by the arm
@nomaschalupas2453
Жыл бұрын
no...when it pulls rotation is just faster. the power isnt changing. imagine the difference when pulling and pushing a cart.
@MadDragon75
Жыл бұрын
@@jordigrau83 that's a good point as well, because the motors are in the back of the quad so the top of the bell is facing rearward whereas if they were on top they would be going right into the air flow.
@mauritz1774
Жыл бұрын
Dear LeDrip, I think the Arms over the Prop (pusher) does not realy block the Incomming Air. If the arms under The Prop (Normal) it have much more Impact on the Airflow. Becurse the Pressured angled Air is blocked by the Arm. In this Case there are caotic Air circulations spreads in all directions around the arm, and have large Impact on the Thrust flow area around the arm. I think in pusher it is much easier to suck the the Air in the Propeller from evrywhere. Over the Propeller there is a Low Pressure Area, this area suck the air in the Prop from all directions inclusive the Ramair of flight speed. The High Pressure Area under the Prop is pushed in one Direction. The Sucking Area is Sucking of all directions, and the Athmospherik Pressure is helping to "refill the low pressure area" And did you Inverted the Motor Directions in Betaflight? Or swaped the Propellers on the Arm? This could have Impact on flight handling in case of the Yaw axis mixed with other Axis in flight.
@kerrymillar4981
Жыл бұрын
Just turn the front motors over for best centre of gravity and flight feel and prop wash is better and can still turtle mode it and it also gets props out of view at 45 degrees tilt on a 7inch where you see the motors more than a 5inch
@fpvraver
Жыл бұрын
WHAT !!!!! I literally was just having a conversation with kebab FPV, not four days ago about this exact thing a 5 inch FPV freestyle pusher quad copter !!!!!!
@MountaineerFPV
Жыл бұрын
@letsflyrc waiting for that Tanq dead cat bro 👊😎👊
@jafc-justanotherfpvchannel3856
Жыл бұрын
Guys, you are doing it wrong. Flip the motors, not the props. Bubby was right to say it was flying worse, as the prop was upsidedown. The morots were probably hot too.
@jakeh3144
Жыл бұрын
8:25 what Shawn is saying is exactly what I thought you meant in the beginning of the video. Confused why they didn't do it this way?
@marvingoldsmith2688
Жыл бұрын
I tested several years ago because it always seemed like a better/more efficient idea to have a pusher style quad. I ended up using a thrust stand to measure the difference the drag of the arms made to the thrust but I found that at higher thrust levels the bells of the motors would come into contact of the housing increasing the drag way more than the arms, but motors are probably a lot better these days.
@jamesramsey2400
Жыл бұрын
you also have to consider motor cooling and how that might effect efficiency, especially running higher kvs
@frankyfrench5279
Жыл бұрын
The pid need to be re-tuned, for each setup as the COG is different you can't compare with tune.
@yuriy77
Жыл бұрын
1. Invert only the front motors. 2. mount the motors upside down, not just turn the frame around and change configuration in BF. on a couple of my O3 quads, to get the props out of view, I just invert the front motors, leave rear motors as is. and it should have been a true blind test.
@kwadkenstine4988
Жыл бұрын
Ihave been building like this for years , no props in view and i prefer it
@xovox9507
Жыл бұрын
It will be more efficient, because high speed air from the prop is not blocked by the arms, the slower speed air coming into the prop over the arm has much less resistance.
@OpaFPV
Жыл бұрын
Moving the motors should change the mass moment. If you increase the mass moment, you will increase the the force required to change direction. DaveM
@miguelcotto4922
Жыл бұрын
Drew! dead cat wins! 🎉 El gato muerto!!
@willbrown8928
Жыл бұрын
I was like "Damn Drew needs a haircut" and BOOM! Drew has a haircut.... Damn I'm good.
@edgarvalles
Жыл бұрын
You should tape a mini skateboard in the bottom
@MRdeLaat
Жыл бұрын
can you try to make a prototype frame where the lipo slots inside the middle of the frame, resting on the bottom plate? try to come with a solution to put the FC and ESC. it think it wil fly good its like a mid engine racer. widen the frame just a bit so it stil has 2 carbon sides and a hole big enough so half the lipo slots inside the frame. the lipo wil almost be exactly in the middle of the props and between the top and bottom
@johnjonesdronesfpv7939
Жыл бұрын
tpu nut covers for skids bros. :)
@scottwilliamson3210
Жыл бұрын
Did you flip the props when you reoriented the motors? I saw BF config props-in at 3:27 and at 4:10 it looks like the props were mounted upside down (right side up when the quad was upside down 🙃) Those props did not look like 3D or symmetrical props and this could really mess with your performance as the airfoils have a clear thrust efficiency preference. ~Shaznoid
@scottwilliamson3210
Жыл бұрын
Oh yea, even on the video title you can see the curve of the prop blades ("scoop") is pointing up, not down. Flip those props and give Bubby another chance! 😄
@NilssonFPV
Жыл бұрын
Highly doubt theres going to be much of a flight differance. What there however will be is a massive reduction in crap that gets into the motors, when chasing things with a lot of gravel/drit/rubber like motocross, rally or drifting. I have had rocks jam up motors, and iv had to clean out melted rubber from the bells. Yet when i flew a Avata during a Swedish folkrace event the motors were as smooth as if i never was there. Normally id have to tear the motors apart and clean them out with bluetac/possible even replace the bearings if its fine dust/really dry at a race.
@Fpvfreaky
Жыл бұрын
You guys should change all motor positions so that the arms don’t have any effect at all. So bottom left motor would be at the base of the quad. The Top right motor would be at the top and the arm. Both other arms vice versa. So that all props will be pushing and pushing air without hitting any arms in the process. I hope that makes sense. You would need some landing skid plates to hold the drone off the floor. Just an idea really.
@fabiom7078
Жыл бұрын
Also an interesting Idea that I have tried out is if you flip the frame over and put the rear motors on the top. It reduces the amount of turbulent air to the rear motors and changes the characteristic quite a bit.
@GrimSpeedFPV
Жыл бұрын
I thought it was a awesome fun idea Drew!!! The guys didn't seem to supportive but look like a cool try to me! If anything a fun day
@djbis
9 ай бұрын
I hate to break it to you fellas, but I believe this "R&D" you are doing has already been done before. The answers to your questions are out there... 😅
@KlutchFPV
5 ай бұрын
I started with the Avata a “pusher” and got a lot flight hours in.. When I transitioned to a freestyle drone with motors on the “ bottom “ the freestyle drone of course had more punch but less stability on low end hover.. from what I can see from your goggle footage, it looked like an Avata flying with a lil more power. Rates did seem slow and could be making the biggest difference… Just my 2 cents experience lol 😅
@AtradiesInc
Жыл бұрын
What if the motors are pushing friction into the bearing more and thats why you dont get the pop or the faster throttle
@ChrisParayno
Жыл бұрын
Remember when folks were actually experimenting with frames that allowed for pusher prob configs??
@lukephilpot5660
Жыл бұрын
Suction is omni-directional, and thrust is is directional. There would definitely be A difference. But with the amount of work the flight computer does. Probably very hard to quantify. Do a weight lifting comp with both types!
@diegomsta
Жыл бұрын
Nice video, PEDVX is like "Chorão" singer of Charlie Brown Jr. band of Brasil!!!
@ddegn
Жыл бұрын
It's too bad you guys don't have more than one drone so you could compare a pusher and puller setup with the same specs. If you cropped out the props, you could even do a blind test.
@Zachary77
Жыл бұрын
I would like to see the motors spaced up an inch above the frame, more even with the middle of the battery. The way it would carry the center of gravity might allow for even tighter turns and even quicker roll rates, it might even stabilize better? Its similar to balancing a basketball on a concave surface vs a convex surface. What surface takes more effort to keep the ball in the middle? Fun fact: When you learn how to balance a tennis ball on top of a beach ball, then you'll understand the concept of how to fly a helicopter.
@imu4869
Жыл бұрын
Bring back the eye liner and colored hair.
@CosmicSlopVibrations
Ай бұрын
Nu uh
@djmantas8568
Жыл бұрын
try draw on paper flip one with props up, and one props down, and thing about gravity center, i guess fliping wth props under its harder but more stability in line, props on top gravity center under props give more stability in rolling but not so on flat , same like trust on rocket engine, ,rolling hard but more stability (props under) sorry for low lvl Language :D
@bondonneaulouis8649
Жыл бұрын
These propellers are designed for pull and not for push, no matter if you turn the engine upside down, it's like flying 3D with normal propellers... that's the problem with this build.
@О.Ш-ь1щ
Жыл бұрын
Let me clear up all the stuff for all the homegrown engineers like the rotor riot team. All the cutting edge technologies start in military rnds and then it comes to the civil engineering. So don't waste your on obvious modifications which are already tested by the military. Putting the motors upside down and expecting gain in performance is the same thing as speaking about ducts as an efficiency gaining shit on whoops.
@nomaschalupas2453
Жыл бұрын
guys, pull will make faster rotation and push makes for stability. its not the the power, imagine fwd and rwd cars, same thing. with drone though you can tune it. maybe 2 push 2pull? see what you need faster rotations and use pull. then push the other 2.
@steviefpv
Жыл бұрын
lol pops on upside down at 9:20 Fail rotor riot your meant to be “leaders” in the game. I can’t believe what I just saw. Where’s my sponsor I know more than these cowboys 😅
@Booster388
Жыл бұрын
Cool guys there something I have the I emailed to you that I think you should look at I think you guys would be interested in it not done being built
@borgonianevolution
Жыл бұрын
Listening to this discussion is like listening to a Flat Earther trying to convert a normal thinking human.
@MrDannycoutin
Жыл бұрын
Pretty sure an aero engineer can make that work in ways u can't imagine reduce the surface in top of the props the thinnest u can and u will see the difference air needs to Flow both ways guys equally
@crumbled_fpv
4 ай бұрын
totaly wrong guys. the center of gravity is higher by pusher = slower, less agile. like spongy. 😉
@donut4ever983
4 ай бұрын
I think the biggest difference is that if you invert the motors on the frame, you can fit larger props.
@Sir_Hubris
Жыл бұрын
8:51 ... "Center of gravity" ... that's what it's all about! ¶ ; - )
@dominickeen6091
Жыл бұрын
How much of a difference does it make due to the fact that the arm is not blocking thrust but instead blocking the air above the prop
@smwyl2910
4 ай бұрын
The only reason I can think of that makes any sense is you have the room for 6 inch props now or even 7?!
@christopherconkright1317
3 ай бұрын
Honestly I think the future is solid state batteries. The will be lighter smaller etc
@christopherconkright1317
3 ай бұрын
For my small drone pushers fly great flywoo 75 85 great flying
@bobHfpv
Жыл бұрын
The whole video im like CHARGE YOUR FUCKING GOGGLES
@infa008
Жыл бұрын
Sharpu uploaded a short film. First vid in 5 years. Show your support
@LostCloudx4
Жыл бұрын
Welcome to whoop life boys, more stable, smoother transitions,
@itzthatpotato
3 ай бұрын
To be fair I thought they were going to mount the motors on the other side of the arm but this is cool
@mikebergman1817
Жыл бұрын
I would appreciate it if all the cats would be alive and healthy, and happy please.
@cmosdaboss
Жыл бұрын
With gps and some code you would have a nice autonomous lawnnmower Drone
@StacemanFPV
Жыл бұрын
"we're out of video ideas, ok".. lolol
@VRi-lh9zj
8 ай бұрын
Or just use a go pro and props out of view would be your least concern.
@eriktomasko8255
Жыл бұрын
Did you flip also the props? :D That could be why it flew so lazy
@Catiadr
Жыл бұрын
You just need 1 inch long prop nuts for landing.
@BeyeaMan
Жыл бұрын
Did you change the props for Bubby after the crash?
@mrzfpv7871
Жыл бұрын
When you inverted the motor did you also invert the props ???
@xplode225
Жыл бұрын
meh too much work for too little reward to flip everything over
@timmytson1
Жыл бұрын
Front motors on the bottom back motors on the top try that
@jdnic1
Жыл бұрын
I was thinking, is it more efficient? More flight time?
@dejavukrewe
Жыл бұрын
Classic fun with OG Christian behind the lens!
@willzaboski2361
Жыл бұрын
Put the motors on the bottom and the battery as well to keep the cg
@rakr9334
Жыл бұрын
wasn't that invented to just get a more compact drone?
@bunnykiller
Жыл бұрын
I was wondering what was happening to the bearings in the motors, are they uni directional thrust or bidirectional thrust capable?
@volitronics
Жыл бұрын
I've been flying 5" pushers since 2017. Twin Quad Guys CK-SX frame, Botgrinder BOT5, and the Demibot. I plow thru scraggle freely, because frame protection. I bottom battery mount, and use the frame otherwise normal, not inverted.
@Sbangfpv_
8 ай бұрын
19:07 pulling is more efficient than pushing.
@Nathan_Nguyen
Жыл бұрын
I fly cinewhoops so alot of my drones have this so yea
@thelagitbaker8673
Жыл бұрын
i want to see pulling props but on an upside down frame
@Number1fanofcaptain
Жыл бұрын
Does anyone know what park this is in Orlando?
@randysem7848
Жыл бұрын
Wow first video I've seen rotor riot use the goggles 2 and 03 unit instead of the walksnail in their video
@freethinkerfpv6839
Жыл бұрын
You must not watch a lot of their videos. In almost every video one of them is using DJI.
@funkynerd_com
Жыл бұрын
As a cinewhoop pilot, there's lots to laugh about here, especially the confusion putting props. lol. You got there though. But, that stuff aside, I don't know exactly what it is either but my Cinewhoops always feel more stable. I can do slow pans at 4k with no stabilisation in high wind and get smooth results out of the camera. Compared to my race drones which are jitter little fuckers, pushers are like flying a pillow filled with clouds. Turtle flips are easier too, I guess, maybe. Interesting comparison.
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