Thank you for having me on again Wayne, it's always a pleasure having these important discussions with you.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
Great to have you on, brother! Always a good time.
@James_Aspey
2 күн бұрын
David is one of the best to ever do it! Firm, clear, dedicated, effective, and genuinely cares about the animals and the movement. Haters love cryin over people gettin the job done.
@davidramms
2 күн бұрын
Thank you mate, I really appreciate your feedback and support!
@liawilbourn
2 күн бұрын
Yep, totally agreed.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
You and he are two of my faves!
@mattpastro3247
Күн бұрын
What an inspiring discussion Wayne. You are the master of politely disagreeing. Love David Rams and I love the message of working together regardless of differences. Getting over this hurdle seems so hard in progressive communities. I’ve certainly seen and experienced it in my part of the world.
@NoInjusticeLastsForever
Күн бұрын
David is who I aspire to be. From one white straight male to another, love ya David!
@huntertobey6965
2 күн бұрын
Kinda felt like because David said “I’ve experienced racism as a white man” that wayne took it as “therefore people of color don’t experience racism or systematic racism or even far worse racism” which obviously doesn’t follow from what David said. It can both be the case that David has experienced racism for being white, AND people of color experience far worse racism personally and systematically on average
@hclyrics
2 күн бұрын
I thought this too. At first, I was a bit suspicious of David's take, but after reading between the lines, I believe he didn't state this blatantly because he feels it's too obvious to even need to explain. I'd encourage him to be a bit more careful with his words, but he's absolutely right in most of the things he's saying.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
Totally fair. I always try to be a good listener, but sometimes when you're amped up, you mis-read someone's point! Thanks for sharing!
@anneshaughnessy2754
2 күн бұрын
I love your channel, Wayne! Great conversations.
@veganteachersanimalliberation
Күн бұрын
I love Wayne's sense of humor😉
@josephancion2190
2 күн бұрын
Cool video, more nuanced than I expected. I haven't been involved in any interpersonal conflict yet, but maybe it's a negative sign showing that I haven't been involved deeply enough in any project yet.. It should happen in the future, so it's good to get resources and tips now. To be strategic, I guess.
@debbiewall2160
2 күн бұрын
What a grrreat convo. While I will never experience "systemic" racism, I, too, have been subjected to "traditional" or old dictionary definition of racism on several occasions, once being called a "white bitch" for doing nothing more than walking down the street. I, personally, see the value of having cis white males in prominent positions in the movement. They serve as role models for the demographic least likely to be sympathetic to our fellow animals. (Holy stereotype, Batman!) And as far as why fewer women or people of color are taking on leadership roles, as a drummer grrrl and an OG in the Winnipeg punk scene, I have been asked during several interviews why there aren't more women in bands. My answer is the only thing holding them back is themselves and they need to grow a pair o' 'nads and get up on stage.
@zntepicvids
5 сағат бұрын
David’s experience with animal rights activism was very similar to my experience. There definitely is a crab in the bucket type of mentality in respect to leadership, especially if you are a white male. Once I left the ARM and became involved in more conservative/libertarian causes I felt much more welcome and was able to enter positions of leadership a lot easier and with less hostility. Real animal rights activists are going to have to figure out how to get the race collectivists to tone down their rhetoric or leave. If they don’t, ARAs will have to watch the movement get co-opted or destroyed by their inherently corrosive nature.
@NSinghJ
Күн бұрын
Too many have terrible, garbage general politics. I can remember someone who was in PETA and MFA lecturing me that if MK Gandhi was alive today, he would be a venture capitalist. I’m not even joking. Vegan politics generally fall into two categories: bootlickers of the big bourgeoisie or rugged individualists (i.e, nobody tells me what to do!) Who remembers Chicago when rugged individualists discovered and declared themselves to be “intersectionals”. Which means, to them, massive amounts of self care, diving into call out culture, and a political manifesto built on “it’s not my job to educate you-EDUCATE YOURSELF”. Imagine Fred Hampton saying something like this.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
Your hot takes are always the most interesting, haha! Hope all is well, friend!
@liawilbourn
2 күн бұрын
David yay!
@davidramms
2 күн бұрын
❤
@LouisGedo
2 күн бұрын
👋 There's increasingly SIGNIFICANT infighting within the broader vegan community..... most notably on social media platforms. I've seen the infighting since 1991 - 1992 when I first got involved
@The40yearoldVegan
Күн бұрын
Hey 👋
@rebeccabrooks3823
3 сағат бұрын
👋
@LouisGedo
2 сағат бұрын
@@rebeccabrooks3823 👋
@LouisGedo
2 сағат бұрын
@@The40yearoldVegan 👋
@tamarabedic9601
Күн бұрын
Middle-aged white woman here! I am/was so enamored with Chinese literature/culture that I uprooted my job/life/relationship and went to live in PRC. Asking questions about dog meat, I quickly realized that a lot depended 𝙤𝙣 𝙝𝙤𝙬 𝙄 𝙖𝙨𝙠𝙚𝙙. If I asked, "𝘞𝘩𝘺 𝘥𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘦𝘢𝘵 𝘥𝘰𝘨𝘴?" I got one reply. If I asked 𝘞𝘩𝘺 𝘥𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘦𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝙥𝙚𝙩 𝘥𝘰𝘨𝘴? I got a completely horrified/defensive denial.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
Very interesting! And absolutely nothing wrong with being a middle aged white woman! Esp one fighting for animals!
@RitiksVideos
2 күн бұрын
From the way that David is overexplaining and trying to excessively take control of the conversation, I get the feeling he perhaps isn't being 100% truthful about what happened at the conference. I will wait for other perspectives. Glad to see you challenge him, Wayne. I'm working on a project you might be able to help me out with. I'll be in touch about it.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
I know David pretty well, and I think he's always been truthful to me. And while David and I disagree on some things, here are the important things: 1. We should talk these things out rather than backstabbing and gossiping, which is a lot of what happens in the movement. 2. We have to learn to agree to disagree sometimes. Love to hear what you thought David wasn't being truthful about! I can try to get corroborating sources from IARC, if that would help. Thanks for listening!
@The40yearoldVegan
Күн бұрын
Nice to see David on looking forward to this
@LouisGedo
2 сағат бұрын
@@The40yearoldVegan 👋
@josephancion2190
Күн бұрын
Hoewever, am I crazy or did Wayne not close his thought on Leenaert ? He started talking about threat inflation, which is definitely related, but I felt like he was going to come back to Leenaert to conclude, but then the conversation ended not long after.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
lol, i totally forget? Can I complete the thought now? What were you looking for?
@josephancion2190
Күн бұрын
@@WayneHsiung_ Ramms mentioned Leenaert. You said you had never read his book, and then talked about conflict inflation (I presume that you did so in relation to Leenaert's two blog posts criticizing DxE's disruptions). It seems you wanted to link this idea of threat inflation with how that affected your relationship (or lack thereof) to Leenaert, but I'm only assuming. So what I think I'm looking for is your opinion of Leenaert, or Leenaert's opinion of you, which I think was what you were going to talk about (but I am not sure).
@Doctor-Box
2 күн бұрын
Nice of David take a couple hours to listen to Wayne talk.
@hclyrics
2 күн бұрын
Oh, come on. We all know Wayne's a bit chatty. I personally love that about him! His podcasts are some of the best around. I really enjoy his stories and his perspectives. I'd say I prefer a genuine conversation to a rigid interview.
@josephancion2190
2 күн бұрын
@@hclyrics 100% with you ! This is clearly an informal discussion channel moreso than an interview channel.
@Doctor-Box
2 күн бұрын
@@hclyrics Relax. It's a joke and I'm not saying it has to be a rigid interview. I did see David was having a trouble at times trying to get a word in is all.
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
@@Doctor-Box haha i'll try to do better next time. Thanks for the feedback! :)
@helenaaberg2296
2 күн бұрын
I was at a meeting where there were people from several environmental organization and we were learning about how to influence politicians. One of the speakers said that person's absolutedness in issues like animal rights stems from some basic shame that stems from their personal history. I felt I was shephered to be ashamed myself to start acting in a certain way that they approve. What do you think about this kind of activism?
@jamiepitcher2055
2 күн бұрын
What a great talk such honesty... ❤. I live in Alberta Canada. And I've communicated online and seen things online with many people from the United States. So I'm going to say from my perspective even before becoming vegan I'm just being an environmentalist. Everybody wants to blame China.. and so it's so common to point your finger at the Chinese that racism towards Chinese people is definitely not considered nearly as bad as racism towards black people. This is ludicrous because racism and all forms of prejudice is wrong. I believe that to such an extent I think nationalism is a form of prejudice.. yes other nations exist. Great so we have a way to point out geographical location awesome.. but when we start boxing people because of their geographical location making judgments towards or for anybody based on these geographical locations and that also goes for saying where I live is the best where the best people We Are The Pinnacle. All this sense of self gratification and being worth more and mattering more is a form of prejudice. Take care of our own first people say.. . If you don't believe that all people matter equally. Maybe you were unaware but that's a form of prejudice. Now admittedly we do have cultural class around the world. But the goal needs to be to try to settle our differences at some point in history hopefully soon so there will be no need for artificial borders and walls and these boundaries to separate each other and cause division. I would like to work towards that. Side note to bring it all back around to what this channel is all about... When we learn to accept all sentient beings. That brings that goal so much more closer... I'm not saying teach people that veganism is for humans. It's not But it will incidentally have that effect ✌️💚
@WayneHsiung_
Күн бұрын
THanks for sharing!
@ThatVeganTeacherYouTube
10 сағат бұрын
Hello fellow Canadian! ❤
@alexanderTheVegan
2 күн бұрын
Those people are woke/liberal. They have created their own world and if you disagree with them in one thing, then they don't want you in their world. Even if your work helps other beings, like animals or even a certain group of humans, they don't care. "If you're not with us, you're against us." Is that mentality familiar to you? 🤔
@VEE-sv2sc
2 күн бұрын
Sigh. You really like division
@alexanderTheVegan
2 күн бұрын
@@VEE-sv2sc , I guess you have a hard time to understand english. I'm sorry, I hope you learn it.
@VEE-sv2sc
2 күн бұрын
@@alexanderTheVegan Saying woke liberal is creating division. That’s just US political rhetoric that’s infected the world.
@VEE-sv2sc
2 күн бұрын
And with all due respect. Your response was pretty lame.
@alexanderTheVegan
2 күн бұрын
@@VEE-sv2sc , It's not my fault you don't understand english and you respond with something that has nothing to do with what I said. 🤷♂
@noahbleroberson7797
Күн бұрын
While I liked David a lot but I dont think people can be racist towards white people. Maybe unfair or prejudice but not racist. Racism was designed by white people, for white people and reenforced into systems by law. Claiming people being racist to you doesnt reflect real racism that has happened to the generations of families and people which are affected by it today. Again really enjoyed listening. I think we as animal rights activists should put more efforts into outreaching and making as many ethical vegans and protections for animals. And I dont think ignoring issues is helpful either. There will never be a way abolitionists and welfarists will always get along but as long as we can all speak about how we can feel I hope we can learn from each other so we can be more effective for the movement.
@OmegaPointZen
Күн бұрын
Racism: The belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatment of someone because of his or her race. Cambridge Dictionary. Under this definition, I feel that you are mistaken.
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