Hearing Stefan talking about piss in a swimming pool was not on my bingo card today.
@philipm3173
7 сағат бұрын
Little more lighthearted than my usual point is: 200 ppm of CO will kill you in under an hour.
@deepashtray5605
Күн бұрын
In 1991 as a student at the U of Mn, while in the stairwell of the student center on the St. Paul campus, Professor Ed Sucoff, an authority on forest ecology, flagged me down to say that he had just returned from a global conference on climate change. He related to me that this conference of serious respected global experts on climate and natural systems were discussing possible solutions to combat climate change; things such as spraying tens of thousands of tons of sulfur dioxide in the upper atmosphere and covering the Greenland ice cap with reflective fabric. Looking absolutely gobsmacked he flat out said that when serious people are considering such ridiculous solutions to a threat this enormous then basically we're screwed. In the last 33 years since he told me that very little has changed. You may have met Dr. Sucoff. He passed in 2014.
@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885
Күн бұрын
great story! I was at a MN Green Party mtg in Saint Paul in 2000 or 1999 and Phil Regal was speaking, Chair of the biology department. I asked him a question. He repeated my name and said, "I thought there were six of you!" That was the best compliment I ever received. hahaha. I had done a lot of activism on campus, including having an op-ed regularly published in the Daily. Regal retired back to Canada but he was an early critique of the hazards of genetic engineering. We later discussed how Monsanto and Cargill had taken over the biology department at U of MN-Twin Cities.
@thomaslodger7675
4 сағат бұрын
I took a historical geology class where we did a project that involved looking at and interpreting ice core data. I was absolutely flabbergasted because I knew almost nothing about climate change until we did that. Before we did the project he gave a lecture on climate change and at one point he was discussing "solutions" that scientists have come up with and at the end he said something like: "These are actually real "solutions" that people have thought about, I'm not making any of this up."
@dylanthomas12321
Күн бұрын
Nate, you and Stefan are two of my heroes. What an exceptionally enlightening discussion. If I could wave that magic wand, millions or billions of people would watch this one.
@treefrog3349
Күн бұрын
The scary reality is that most of our world leaders are much more conversant in monetary theory and political "science" than they are with the geophysics, meteorology or marine biology. It explains ALOT. As a result - expressed in simplistic terms - greed and power is the pervasive current dynamic of human endeavor, rather than "nurturing the garden" using the vast accumulated wisdom acquired by VERY SMART non-politicians over centuries! The Earth is suffering from a severe case of misplaced priorities that have been orchestrated by greedy and power-hungry charlatans. If we, as a species, cannot acknowledge, confront and combat those inimical forces, the the future of successive generations is problematic, at best.
@kurtklingbeil6900
Күн бұрын
Conversant but not competent They are captured by the cronyCorpiratist kleptocracy and Central Bankers and kowtow to Amerikkkan hedgemony Look at how many support the NatZionist genocide! Devoid of moral ethical intellectual integrity... Most "leaders" are performative poseurs who abuse their access to public power to leverage their personal and ideological psychopathies over millions of people.
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
Great comment. I agree 👍
@volkerengels5298
Күн бұрын
Nope - they get update by scientists which are able to break it down. You and me does the same - by watching vids like this. Any leader in the world is in a far better position than you and me - personal briefing in a straight talk is far more effective than yt-vids. Accept this for a moment - and understand why they do like they do. There is a big big tension between former colonizers and (by those:) so called 'Developing Countries' As long as this is not 'clarified' aka confrontated - no chance for peace. And therefore no chance of 'climate protection'. The West's ideas on this point are unacceptable. At least from the perspective of 7 billion people - who have suffered under the WhiteMen for generations. They know - the West is responsible for 80% of all GHG emissions so far. This is not well-known in the West..... ha ha ha What is a good move if you are e.g. president of the United States? Average American eats 5 earth per year. Go tell them "One - not more. There are limits. As we have dept in mass -> 0.5 for the next 1000years would be fine for all of *us" (*us: In this case 'the ppl of the world' - not only us_americans :))
@5353Jumper
Күн бұрын
They are not even well versed in economics and political science. If they were they would be adopting a lot more alternative technologies. This is all purely oligopoly control over the world's government, and the oligopoly is nearly 100% invested in fuels and fuel based solutions. As well as the sub economy of gravy money supplied by petroleum fuel bi-products. They are not looking forward to the shift in primary justification for extraction when fuel demand falls below demand for fuel bi-products.
@richdiana3663
Күн бұрын
Only 95% of the US citizenry are science literate, so don't expect much change from them.
@ImproveYourMagic
Күн бұрын
Stefan Rahmstorf. I’m too excited for this interview. Let’s go.
@jameslaughren1071
Күн бұрын
"Make planetary protection a priority ". Great interview. Thank you!
@claudesylvanshine6551
Күн бұрын
Stefan has a far more rosy view of human nature than my own. When scarcity really starts to set in, we'll revert to our primal heritage.
@8BitNaptime
Күн бұрын
I'd say it's the "perceived differential scarcity" that many people respond to.
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
Personally, I absolutely agree with you. Much conservatism in Stefan's outlook. In my view I think his work with government advisory experts in Germany has created a certain amount of self censorship. But it's just my view that's all. I've read too much Chomsky perhaps.
@UnknownPascal-sc2nk
Күн бұрын
We seem to be in a "we'll cross that isthmus when it reappears" mode.
@georgebarda3903
17 сағат бұрын
Not so according to Humankind by Rutger Bregman. I recommend a read/google/KZitem on the subject... x
@thiemokellner1893
16 сағат бұрын
Actually, I dare say, we never left out primal heritage. "As long as I am fine, I do not care."
@thunderstorm6630
Күн бұрын
wow, I like Stefan Rahmdorf, great interview, thank you for bringing this great researcher
@davidquispe1584
Күн бұрын
He mentions the possibility of the global economy collapsing, thus averting 3C. Then says "There's another way of looking at it which is more positive." Actually I think that's about the most positive way it could turn out.
@chrisvernon3156
Күн бұрын
Indeed! Collapse now, and maintain the ecosystem so the next civilisation has a chance. Keep the show on the road to +3°C and beyond (sixth mass extinction) and the ecosystem will take millions of years to complexify again.
@justcollapse5343
19 сағат бұрын
Yes! #JustCollapse
@pvmagnus
16 сағат бұрын
Collapse is well underway. It's bemusing watching folks discuss the false hope scenarios. Really we shld be accepting this collapse & look forward we can survive in a reasonable existence. #wass
@GregoryJWalters
Күн бұрын
This Podcast certainly deserves Wide Dissemination, Global Listenership, and Planetary Human Response.Thank You Nate and Stefan!
@GiselaChappelle
Күн бұрын
In the US we have two disappointing presidential candidates. One that does not believe in science at all, and the other one that can't even stick to banning fracking. Obviously, environmentally speaking, the one not believing in science, is the worst, but the other one is not taking CC seriously enough either. It's depressing! I wish politicians would listen to scientists, stop all wars, and collaborate on this most important issue of our times. Our children and grandchildren deserve better.
@thiemokellner1893
16 сағат бұрын
Guess what. The depressing truth is, that it is us, the voters, responsible for the failing on climate policies. We elected the presidents, I am not aware of a single president of a state/land, whatsoever, the was elected because of his/her green ambitions.
@bakedbean37
Сағат бұрын
@@thiemokellner1893 The Green candidate in the current US race is polling at a whopping 1 or 2 percent. I understand that the lowest possible price of a gallon of fossil fuel is way, way up there on the list of priorities for an awful lot of the electorate.
@leonsappl
Күн бұрын
Looking forward to this one. Long time follower of Stefan on Twitter.
@Dartagnan65
Күн бұрын
The oceans are about 70% of the *surface* of the Earth, but about 98% of the "lifespace" on the Earth. And the oceans are dying.
@justcollapse5343
18 сағат бұрын
Yep - the Great Barrier Reef is an organism/ecosystem like the Amazon which is absolutely vital but functionally extinct. What do we do with this understanding? JustCollapse.or g
@treefrog3349
Күн бұрын
I would just like to say that the level of relevant, meaningful discourse that occurs on the Great Simplification is the type of conversations that SHOULD be occurring in our global "halls of power". The inescapable fact that they DO NOT should be of considerable concern to us all. Gaza and Ukraine are undeniable (and avoidable) tragedies, but they pale in comparison to the "bigger picture" - the plight of the Earth and all humanity. Ironically, that same indifference to human beings is now directed at the Earth itself! By the same cadre of people.
@anabolicamaranth7140
Күн бұрын
Ukraine has lots of valuable resources. Those are the USA’s resources. We deserve those resources.
@treefrog3349
Күн бұрын
@@anabolicamaranth7140 I hope to god you are being cynical and sarcastic. In contemporary American it is hard to tell any more.
@UsterKoolageArt
Күн бұрын
I hope it was sarcasm too. Americans seem to know full well how to waste resources. I have heard little to nothing on this global crisis from candidates and scratch my head! Why not?!
@anabolicamaranth7140
22 сағат бұрын
@@UsterKoolageArt I can assure you Lindsey Graham is not being sarcastic when he let’s the world know the real reason we’re involved in Ukraine.
@ShaneGrey
15 сағат бұрын
Nate, thanks for bringing this kind of discussion to this format. It's easy to find this kind of content in text, but so much easier for people like me to absorb in an audio interview format. I love the guests you get on the channel!
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
Why do all these climate science buffs never look at the physics of the green transformation? They truly are on their island of expertise and just blindly assume climate change could be fixed easily if just world leaders and industry took them seriously. But they know jack shit about how our civilization is hopelessly dependent on fossil fuels... don't get me wrong i value these interviews but man is it depressing to see that even a Rahmstorf has no idea how bad our predicament actually is. I wonder what Nate feels about this and why he never pushes back on takes like that. Like how can Rahmstorf seriously say he is more optimistic that 40years ago??!!
@Corrie-fd9ww
Күн бұрын
I have these uncomfy, stressful moments when listening to otherwise superb (in my opinion) interviews. As a lifelong student, it’s become clear to me that the main issue in our predicament (polycrisis) rests with ecology- all of earth’s interconnected systems, being impacted and degraded by human industrial activity. The hyper focus on changing climate, and then basically just addressing GHG emissions as a solution to changing climate, seems increasingly delusional. Maybe folks like Stefan are “toeing the party line” message, staying on message with what seems most important and most impactful. Maybe over a beer, one on one, they’d be more honest about their awareness of things. Maybe it’s just being ultra siloed and super specific in their area of study, and their personalities are such that they can’t or don’t wanna play nice with other thinkers. Maybe the systems thinking required to really see how dire our predicament is, just comes more easily to some people more than others, including ultra smart and accomplished people. I dunno but, it can feel surreal sometimes, listening to some of these talking points.
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
@@Corrie-fd9ww I doubt Rahmstorf would have different takes in a private, slightly drunk setting. I think he just doesn't know better. He perceives his role to be the climate guy and inform everyone about the climate problem. If only everyone knew and agreed, the solution would be simple. Because thats the mainstream narrative about the green transformation. But his takes on the solution are just super naive, because its not his field of expertise. Most academics in their career learn more and more about less and less. I mean he knows about a lot of different stuff related to climate and ocean ecology etc. but has no clue about the underlying building blocks of modern civilization, which are huge flows of finite materials and huge flows of finite, extremely dense fossil energies. This is for some reason something you don't learn studying physics at universities although as a physicist this stuff is really intuitively clear (its just basic thermodynamics). Another take: The only reason Rahmstorf could even become this public, respected figure, is exactly because he doesn't know these things (at least doesn't talk about them). So he never actually challenges the current systems, power structures and therefore can be platformed by most media.
@Corrie-fd9ww
Күн бұрын
@moriz1037 thanks for the reply, it’s a topic worth exploring more, imo. The messaging is oversimplified and the solutions are oversimplified, and this is done because 1) more digestible to the masses, media can keep their clicks, likes, and followers 2) doesn’t truly upset status quo. And that some, maybe most communicators, genuinely don’t know or don’t want to know more depth about the predicament. Personally I believe, at this point anyway, that the messaging has been so fudged that it can’t be unfudged, but I would kinda think that, if it had a chance of being unfudged, it would require wayyyyyyyyy more collaboration, open discussions, transparency and honesty in all areas of life, not just social media. I guess that’s more of an inner, personal transformation rather than which scientist can win at communicating more and better data. Speaking for myself, I continue to learn from these interviews but it becomes more glaringly obvious to me that people in the climate and collapse spheres are not on the same page with some truly important aspects of our predicament.
@beverleybarnes5656
Күн бұрын
@@Corrie-fd9ww Corrie, would you let us know what you are doing about the problems and challenges?
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
@Corrie-fd9ww Totally. There's a great interview of Noam Chomsky in which he says the same thing to to one of the then BBC's top journalists.
@rhene1548
Күн бұрын
Thanks for sharing this information.
@tedratcliffe2498
Күн бұрын
I am surprised that an eminent scientist still thinks technology can save us. Does he not understand overshoot?
@Airith4
Күн бұрын
Most well known and read scientists don't want to sound alarmist I'm sure that's on the forefront of his mind. Even though everyone should be alarmed.
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
Don't spook the horses..
@JaseboMonkeyRex
Күн бұрын
I agree, we are going to have to unite and fight.... The system will not change easily. It will resist using enormous force.
@johnkintree763
Күн бұрын
Yes, if we build a global conversational digital platform for collective democracy, we will need to authenticate the identities of people using it, to prevent rigging by bots. We will also need a way for people to select when their statements are made anonymously. The first thing I plan on saying to the platform is that I want to unite with people around the world in realizing the principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Earth Charter.
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
Astounding that the growth imperitive is getting NO mention at all, as the common driver of ALL humanity’s planetary overshoots.
@loristinson
Күн бұрын
he discusses this elsewhere
@evilryutaropro
6 сағат бұрын
Honestly even if we plateaued with emissions and economic activity as it stands now nearly all life on Earth including nearly all humans would be worse off as time goes by. We should’ve simplified after the depression almost 100 years ago
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
'If you're lucky enough to live in a democracy, vote.' Whilst I like Stefan, he's very nice and I'm sure a good person, the naivety of this statement beggars belief. We have to get real with the climate and especially corporate politics, otherwide we're going to die on our knees. As Rosa Luxembourg said all those years ago, 'It's either socialism or fascism'. Our present inaction on climate, environment and war point to the latter. As Chris Hedges said, he's afraid that when the US goes down, it will take the rest of the world with it. That's near enough where we're headed at the moment.
@ChimpJacobman
Күн бұрын
Amen brotha ❤
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
In Australia we have 2 mai. Parties both are hitting the peddle , accelerating to the cliff.
@justcollapse5343
18 сағат бұрын
Yes - agree with Hedges and we have said as much in international forums such as World Beyond War because the USA is so dangerous only an internal collapse of this belligerent #empire can possibly save us from near term destruction. #MAD
@emceegreen8864
Күн бұрын
I liked Jeff Sacks description of “Subsidiarity”. We as humanity must organize and agree to fundamentally change economics to support survival. It’s PAINFULLY obvious.
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
Jeff Sachs is great and stands on the right side of history. However, hee doesn't talk about what is most likely to happen, is already happening, when the organising is going on. Those who stand to lose most will fight you physically, and it will be another proxy fight. Already disenfranchised people are most easily recruited for this phase.
@therealdesidaru
Күн бұрын
85 degrees F with 75% humidity is dangerous. I live in the Southern Appalachian Mountains on the East side of the ridge. This summer I experienced 85F and 75% humidity and could barely work outside for more than 20 minutes at a time. No wonder you got sick.
@johncarter1150
Күн бұрын
That's nothing... Go about 400 miles South to South Georgia... 95-100°for weeks on and 60-80% humidity. Nights not dropping below 80°.
@wmpx34
Күн бұрын
@@johncarter1150 months on end* It’s 82 degrees right now at 9 p.m. in mid September. Heat index says 91 😂
@therealdesidaru
21 сағат бұрын
@@johncarter1150 No thanks. People will start dying from the heat next year. We are "NOT GOING BACK!" 😆
@Jebediah1999
10 сағат бұрын
@@wmpx34 where's that?.
@ErnestOfGaia
Күн бұрын
More folks need to understand about plant germination temps aswell
@thehermitmonk081
20 сағат бұрын
A goldmine of information I haven't heard brought up before.
@paulandrews5906
22 сағат бұрын
Brilliant. I always enjoy listening to Stefan and Nate of course.
@concentricvoid
Күн бұрын
I think future humans will look back at past civilization and see it the way we view ghost towns or the wreck of the Titanic. They'll think that it must have been amazing to have seen these places when they were thriving and in their prime, before it all fell apart.
@klondike444
Күн бұрын
Very interesting and informative, but Stefan seems to be yet another expert who believes that a transition to "clean energy" is possible.
@Corrie-fd9ww
Күн бұрын
It’s been very interesting, to see where many of the guests find general consensus, and agree/converge on important reality. And then very uncomfortable seeing where many seem to disagree/diverge from each other re: really important realities. Like, green energy/net zero, or population (ten billion people can live well on a healthy biosphere because technology/degrowth, etc) or, there’s no warming in the pipeline if emissions stop soon vs stopping emissions won’t stop warming, as a few examples. I realize some of it is about correcting faulty messaging and effectively teaching the general public some more nuanced concepts, but it seems deeper than that. Just very different views of reality happening, along with scientists being very “siloed” from each other…and yet, maybe not being willing to be more open to each other’s perspectives.
@cemotazca8628
Күн бұрын
I think the question is if it is possible in a capitalist system. The Environmental Catastrophe is a symptom of capitalism.
@rdallas81
Күн бұрын
Will nor happen. As long as oil is able to be pumped out of the ground, it won't happen. Who's going to tell all these up and coming nation is South America, Africa, Asia that they can't use the oil, gas, and coal that they have untapped in their nations? Who's going to deny them their technological boom?
@rdallas81
Күн бұрын
@@cemotazca8628absolutely a fact.. Capitalism, and militarism is the biggest factors for what's happening. No doubt about it.
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
@Corrie-fd9ww you said what I would have said, if I were more motivated to write something..thanks..
@nazmiyahsayuti7050
Күн бұрын
Nate, the example of salt water intrusion is mega city Jakarta my hometown. Jakarta has long been sucking its underground water, it s been sinking 16 feet since 25 year ago. The current plan now is to extend water piping by a rich Indonesian company, enriching himself as business as usual. Meanwhile other companies build housing n offices on the land reclamation at North Jakarta. Meanwhile, the govt relocate the capital city to another island, also with the approach of business as usual - deforestation, and conflict with local indigenous people
@justcollapse5343
19 сағат бұрын
Yes - it is a tragedy, sorry. People we know in Indonesia and all around the world are organising at the local level for socio-ecological justice, as the process of collapse accelerates; for a #JustCollapse.
@troygoss6400
Күн бұрын
I do not agree that energy consumption in our present use can be maintained with renewables.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
Properly called "rebuildables" because they last for only about 25 years before they need to be discarded, and new ones built to replace them (using newly mined materials and fossil fuels)
@justcollapse5343
19 сағат бұрын
Huzzah! A sane person. Welcome to the team.
@davidpb-j9307
16 сағат бұрын
I agree with you. I am surprised that being so knowledgeable about the climate etc. that Dr Rahmstorf can think that the use of heat pumps and electric cars and the introduction of "renewables" mean that we will not have to change "our" way of life very much. Quite naive in my opinion!
@Andrew-ez9cp
Күн бұрын
Brilliant podcast well worth the watch 👍
@ChimpJacobman
Күн бұрын
Y'all live in a Democracy? Didn't realize they actually existed, lucky you! I'd love to vote for politicians who take this stuff seriously. Unfortunately, I live in the US - Moloch v Moloch.
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
100%
@cesarpulgarin4046
17 сағат бұрын
One of the best ! Comprehensive questions and answers.
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
Stefan Rahmstorf and Nate -There ARE, indeed, whole system growth transformations that could change the trajectory in a lasting way, it would be to “grow up.”
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
But I want to be a teenager for ever..😢
@ZaneLiebrum
Күн бұрын
Great exchange! Very informative. I like these Q&A episodes
@alfredmacleod8951
Күн бұрын
Hi Nate : great conversation. Stefan Rahmstorf explains very clearly the effects of our activities on the climate. If every world citizen could listen to this conversation, we would make a great step toward a mitigation of those terrible effects of our emissions of CO2. Many thanks !
@Meowbay
20 сағат бұрын
Stefan does miss a really important point: most vegetation currently adapted to subtropical or colder climates can't do photosynthesis (i.e. produce oxygen) above ~40 degrees Celsius. In fact, lots of plants just stop doing photosynthesis already at 38 Celsius. Some at 44, but even with that in mind, I strongly doubt Stefan knows enough to make such a blunt secure statement on oxygen levels. Earth's open air used to have 30% oxygen (when dinosaurs existed, for one), now it ranges from 7% in busy cities to 15% in modern day jungles..
@zillenjunge
15 сағат бұрын
7% oxygen in busy cities? That seems wildly unplausible. References? M I learned in school oxygen content of air is roughly 20%.
@Dunrig
Күн бұрын
What if there are no electoral candidates that are pushing for the policy that we need?
@MattAngiono
Күн бұрын
That kind of politics was never going to save us from this psychotic system. We have to work out parallel systems that make it obsolete, though I doubt there's enough time
@nazmiyahsayuti7050
Күн бұрын
Green party?
@MattAngiono
Күн бұрын
@nazmiyahsayuti7050 that's the closest, but they seem to still keep people somewhat faithful or captured within the system instead of realizing just how dire the situation is... But voting is so simple that I don't mind giving them mine. I think most people probably aren't fooled into thinking that even if we did select the green party that it would be the complete systemic change we need, but I don't really know. I still think it's the best choice within the system we have. We just have to challenge that in other ways simultaneously
@ErnestOfGaia
Күн бұрын
Jill Stein and green party is
@forgetful3360
Күн бұрын
@@ErnestOfGaiaJill Stein is not serious.
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
Climate is one of many existentially severe destabilization of the working parts of nature, eye central cause, maximizing growth, hardly ever gets discuss, and remains extraordinarily under studied.
@SeventhCircleID
Күн бұрын
Exceptional talk, thank you so much.
@BobQuigley
Күн бұрын
Great discussion. Fresh information.
@SylvainDuford
20 сағат бұрын
The fact that if we stopped emitting CO2, the warming would stop, is hardly any comfort at all as we are not on any feasible trend that would achieve net-zero emissions over the next 50 years. We're certainly not going to achieve this by replacing 1.2 billion ICE vehicles with 1.2 billion EVs which is what the capitalists want to do. We need less cars, less consumption, less energy production, less population growth. Ain't going to happen in our current socioeconomic and political system. But I also question that declaration. It might be essentially true, all else being equal, but does it take into account the loss of albedo from melting ice (which science says will keep melting for a 1,000 years)? The carbon emitted by global wildfires (in 2023, Canada's wildfires alone emitted 3x more CO2 than the country's man-made emissions)? The thawing permafrost and methane clathrates? Warming wetlands? Drying soils? Does it take into account population growth that leads to increased consumption, deforestation and agriculture?
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
Now he’s talking like me, every step beyond sustainability limits crosses thresholds of instability never seen before.
@wvhaugen
Күн бұрын
"Economic collapse may forestall reaching 3 degrees Celsius." Nate questions this because of compounding effects. Rahmstorf dismissed this because of thermal inertia and the oceans catching up to the increases on land. This is just spin because it is based on emissions going down to 0 by 2050. Emissions are NOT going down and the compounding effects cannot be so easily dismissed. "Emissions" also include heat too. Right now the energy expended by 8 billion people is equivalent to the oil production of Russia. At about an hour in, I became disappointed in Rahmstorf's views. He cannot seem to comprehend: 1) No real reform in the energy use is likely. 2) Collapse has already started. 3) Large-scale human dieoff is on the horizon. 4) Even with collapse and dieoff, global warming will continue until the AMOC collapses. 5) The result is a reversion to the Pleistocene Pattern of an ice age. This interglacial will be finished.
@justcollapse5343
18 сағат бұрын
Bingo! - we have a winner! It's great to see some non-stupid on the interwebs so must thank Nate Hagens for bringing us all together.
@JaseboMonkeyRex
Күн бұрын
It always strikes me how advanced our science is compared to our daily routine... The idea that we understand the energy balance of the planet is actually an extraordinary thing in itself... Then, compare this understanding with the level of political debate in the USA, and we can see the problem .... I'm not sure i want to hear the 3c part of this discussion because we are going there...😮
@kurtklingbeil6900
Күн бұрын
Political "debate" in Amerikkka is at the stage Medieval Sewerage Random ex-spurts arrogantly dumping their chamber ports into the street
@mamajojoful
Күн бұрын
While we all watch a genocide in Gaza, do you really think anybody will move a pinky for the living biome? The missing piece of information that is not getting out into the public sphere is understanding ocean heat absorption. Most teachers at my son's school know nothing about the climate system and it is treated as a niche subject that is talked about with imaginary thinking. The madness, the harm and the avoidance everywhere is daunting.
@UsterKoolageArt
Күн бұрын
Oh,I hear you! Retired now, but was the only teacher in my school district teaching environmental science in the 80's and 90's. I fear a good portion of people in the US have double downed on the lemming behavior, even educators. Ignorance is bliss to most, even though the crisis is slapping us in the face. The subject must become as important as Math and Reading...yesterday!
@StressRUs
Күн бұрын
Nice, friendly chit chat presentation, but I prefer the hard science, so: the reason burning fossil fuels and producing about 20 GT more CO2 in the atmosphere is that it lasts for 100 yrs. and has now reached a total of 980 GT, but CH4 is 100 times more heat absorbent and lasts for 20 yrs. CO2 is 20 times more heat absorbent than water vapor, of which we produce 1-1.4 trillion tons daily, but it only lasts 10-14 days. My understanding is that although water vapor is typically described as "the most important GHG", its real function is as the final stage in the hydrological cycle moving heat energy off of the planet, it's our AC. So the heat production imbalance is 2 times as much being trapped as the AC can cool. CH4 is a problem as it is 100 times more heat absorbing than CO2 and sticks around for 20 yrs. Thus, NASA says we're melting 30 million tons of Greenland ice per hour, but some welp on the net says it's actually been updated to 41 million tons per hour. C3S predicts that 2/3rds of the 220,000 glaciers on the planet will have melted away at the current rate by 2,100. Melting global ice, 1.2 trillion tons annually (3.3 billion tons daily), where each pound absorbs 144 BTUs, is the proverbial "canary in the coal mine" warning of ongoing climate collapse. Humans can move to higher ground but when the AC gives out, we're toast.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
Apparently CO2's damaging effects will last for 500,000 years v=qJVM6FVt25w
@carlbrenninkmeijer8925
Күн бұрын
Great Interview, great scientist.
@anngodfrey612
15 сағат бұрын
Hi from New Zealand Stefan, thank you both for your mahi !!
@denisemillar9146
Күн бұрын
Thank you, Nate. I look forward to each and every video, Wednesday is my favorite day of the week.
@z.j.maayan8458
Күн бұрын
excellent discussion! So glad you touched on plastics as way too many in the collapse/climate community tend to overlook health studies that are as doom-filled as the rest of the world.
@hart3105
Күн бұрын
Dr. Rahmstorf, have you forgotten about the global dimming in the atmosphere that would decrease should we stop the production of excess CO2?
@horst4439
Күн бұрын
As I understood this concept, not CO2 causes dimming, but aerosols and dust particles from S02 e.g. The dimming noticeably changed as the sulphur content of marine fuels was forced to be be reduced. They still emitted CO2 as before, but less particles which caused the cooling effect.
@ChimpJacobman
Күн бұрын
@horst4439 right, but fuel/gas still has some sulfur, and burning oil/coal emits SO2, plus extracting oil releases some SO2. If all of that suddenly stopped, the aerosols would wash out with the weather within a week. Elevated methane/CO2 would persist for hundreds/thousands of years. The "warming in the Pipeline" from James Hansen that I though Nate was referring to was about loss of aerosol cooling. Stephan treated it as a GHG question, not an aerosol question, and Nate didn't push him on it. Was a little confused by that one, looks like OP was too.
@horst4439
Күн бұрын
@ChimpJacobman One could consider those SO2 emission as an unvoluntary and unintended type of geoengineering, which is discussed quite controversial if appropriate in general. The biggest method of geoengineering, we initiated consists of CO2 emission in the first place though.
@markbowenagates1987
Күн бұрын
The main belief of my friends who don't believe in climate change is this: Scientists need government funding to put food on the table for their families. Therefore, they make up climate change so they can keep getting funding for further research and also to keep getting money from green energy companies. How can scientists debunk these beliefs?
@lisalikesplants
22 сағат бұрын
You can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.
@chikkieric7573
12 сағат бұрын
well... if they deny climate change caused by CO2, hopefully they believe in economics. Solar +Wind Energy + Battery are globally cheaper than fossil fuels. The real warming they can't deny, as it is probably impossible to fake billions of thermometers globally ;)
@nathanbigler
Күн бұрын
I've seen some charts on Paul Beckwith's channel that seem to predict dramatic warming associated with each El Niño. I wonder if the next one will be an economic tipping point for human society. Is that when agriculture collapses? That could be very soon, sometime in the next decade
@squeaker19694
Күн бұрын
Many cows were put down last summer where I live in Western Australia. There was very little feed and it was very expensive to buy feed. It is forcast to continue to dry here. I'm very nervous about bushfires as I'm surrounded by thick tall forest in Denmark, WA. We are already seeing a migration from Perth city to Albany which is causing traffic congestion and its harder to access health services. It's going to be chaos. The masses will move here and they'll clear the beautiful forests to make way for humans.😢
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
I here el nino is expected soon, they are coming faster and so, more often.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
Many millions of acres of agricultural fields have already been lost around the world just this year to floods, wildfires, and other climate change-related disasters.
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
The WMO has predicted a multi-breadbasket failure by 2027. It may be regional I don't know, but it's not good news in any event.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
@@brianwheeldon4643 There are already rice shortages in Asia.
@thunderstorm6630
Күн бұрын
what I have heard is the the warming effect over landmass is more like 2.5 to 3.5 times more than over water.
@loristinson
Күн бұрын
Dr. Ramstorf is being quite measured and conservative in his discussion. Scientists often do this. It is a significant aspect of creating consensus, even when they know, as he definitely knows, that this can rapidly accelerate. It is these amplifying effects have accelerated since the interview was recorded. Also, much has gotten worse in terms of weather impacts and ocean temperatures just in the month and three quarters since this was recorded.
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
Nate, why didn't you ask about Stefans take on the aerosol masking effect and the rapid increase in earth energy imbalance (accelerating warming) of the last 20 years?
@rabkad5673
18 сағат бұрын
Interview suggestion: Dr John Christy
@rabkad5673
18 сағат бұрын
Interview suggestion: Dr Judith Curry
@pookah9938
Күн бұрын
Put those "geoengineers" to work "co-operating" with the systems the earth has in place...thank you , Stefan.
@judithmcdonald9001
Күн бұрын
The Salinas Valley, the salad bowl of the country, has been fighting salt water intrusion for 50 years. most of the cropland in California was ocean at one time. Oh, look at Mesopotamia! We been drying up for a few thousand and yet we aren't prepared or, better yet, adapted. We argue over economies. LOL
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
I like that Nate is getting mainstream guests like Jeffrey Sachs, Rahmstorf (who i both knew and valued before) etc. I value these interviews and I like that he seems to get a larger reach. However I feel like Nate is uncomfortable with challenging his guests beliefs and doesn't adress their energy blindness or whatever lack of knowledge they have about the polycrisisfrom their islands of expertise. Both Rahmstorf and Sachs have no fucking clue about the impossibility of the energy transition or continued growth. I would like him to challenge guests on their beliefs more, I know they're wrong, Nate knows they're wrong, but does the audience know the guests are wrong?
@thegreatsimplification
Күн бұрын
think about what you are suggesting. I had 40+ questions ON CLIMATE for this climate expert - and i didnt get to all of them and we went over his time allotment - why would i argue with him about something he is not trained in and doesnt know alot about? it makes no sense. Why would i talk to a social psychologist about the AMOC? Each of these are a piece of the puzzle - im doing the best i can
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
@@thegreatsimplificationOk sorry it's unfair to criticise you for this. You are the best i really mean this
@justcollapse5343
17 сағат бұрын
@@thegreatsimplification Yes - there are limitations to these formats of course, however, however challenging preconceptions is a form of #activism which can elicit new understanding, new meaning, and via Hegelian dialectic of thesis, and antithesis, some synthesis emerges and it is to Nate's credit that so many comments on this thread reflect a broader systemic understanding.
@garyclifford5368
Күн бұрын
Thank you
@volkerengels5298
Күн бұрын
18:30 "co2 is good for the plants" Stefan avoids the complete answer - but give a good chunk "Our ecosystems are highly adapted to the climate" - then he turns to our infrastructure...??? And sea level rise....???? Our ecosystem go extinct - with a 10x times faster climate change than ever. Stefan knows that - how sad he is...????
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
Good to hear this talk, the land ocean temp diff is very little discussed. He seems to be very upbeat about us having the solutions, ie tech to address prob... thats not my veiw.
@justcollapse5343
18 сағат бұрын
Yes - and what will this tech run on we wonder - magic green pixie-dust and rainbow unicorn farts? Deploying techno-fixes is attempting to solve the predicament with more of the problem.
@Argacyan
10 сағат бұрын
If 4 in 5 tweets by Stefan are in German it's a good starting point to get motivation for learning German.
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
He’s not addressing the CO2 from heat sensitive sources, like permafrost and condensed ocean hydrides.
@rdallas81
Күн бұрын
That's coming- Already started. Permafrost in Siberia is waking up. What most fail to understand is the people in control now, policy makers, leaders, etc will be long gone by the time the mass migrations and lawlessness start happening on a global scale. It coming and it's coming faster than anyone could imagine. We will witness record temps year after year from here on out. We will live to witness the restructuring if coast lines, glaciers, lakes, species, and life expectancies.
@SnowyOwlPrepper
Күн бұрын
Great show.
@pvmagnus
17 сағат бұрын
Ocean acidification is a civilization collapse event pretty much equal to rapidglobalwarming & yet not being talked about like GW
@dbvoid1485
Күн бұрын
Nate, less is more, and you - as so many other interviewers - need to reduce the amount of your words. Cut out all bla bla that is not essnetial for the question. Everybody knows empty bla bla and this should be avoided!
@thegreatsimplification
Күн бұрын
I hear you. But that’s like cutting off my ankle. I am who I am
@JeffHiemstra
Күн бұрын
People already live in areas that are 100f (over 38c) for 100+ days almost every summer. Many have air conditioning, some do not. They typically do everything after sunset.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
Episode 5 of the recent Web TV series "Extrapolations" imagines what it might be like in India in 2059, when the government only allows people to go outside after dark. The whole 8-part series is highly recommended.
@JeffHiemstra
18 сағат бұрын
@@dbadagna Yes I've enjoyed that show and seen it. While obviously a lot less humid, people in the middle east and much of North Africa already adopt the lifestyle of doing most of their life after dark. I remember living in the region and noticing that everything comes alive at the evening. Even the retail/hours are 3pm to midnight for example for the malls.
@johnaugsburger6192
Күн бұрын
Thanks
@rayraytub1000
19 сағат бұрын
A great one! How do we get other frogs to realize we are in a slowing boiling pot of water before its too late? I think a major economics shift must happen! Are young economists realizing that nonstop growth is unphysical? I feel like they need to really take their physics classes to heart...
@danielfaben5838
Күн бұрын
More and more as detailed information is available it is apparent that humans have few answers and no procedures for our overshoot. No one wants to die but that is exactly what is called for. Before ending almost all human existence we will just want to continue as we have become accustomed. The second will lead to the first.
@mikeroberts4260
Күн бұрын
It's a shame that Stefan really understands the science on climate but chooses to skim his understanding of what he calls the "technological solutions" and his understanding of what is truly sustainable. The good life that Stefan thinks people could have can only ever be temporary, as modernity is not sustainable. Is he happy for the current generations to have that good life, but isn't concerned about future generations or other species, if modernity continues to devastate the environment even if powered by so-called renewables? Surely he must realise that "renewables" are not renewable, or has he simply not thought about that as he is focused on continuing modernity without further climate change? (Not that renewables can definitely be built without fossil fuels.)
@bobcva3627
Күн бұрын
I cringe every time I see or hear the word renewable. As you note, "renewables" are not renewable. It's a feel good word with imprecise meaning and is unhelpful in discussing energy sources in the future. The corporations love the word because it makes people feel like there's some "technological" magic [that they (the corporations) can profit from] that preserves current lifestyles in the "West" or "North." We need to be talking about ways to harvest energy, some of which humanity survived on in the past (we eat plants, or eat eaters of plants, that harvested solar radiation and through photosynthesis created energy sources. Wind has been used in many ways, and wind is created by solar heating of the atmosphere. Water from evaporation by energy. We can now use technology of course to harvest energy through direct solar capture, as with solar panels. But consumption (as in GDP) must come down. A good life can be had at much lower inputs or uses of energy. We did so in the not so distant past and do so now in some parts of the world.
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
@@bobcva3627 An entire 13-square-km solar field in Texas just became a "discardable" after the panels were smashed by a hail storm on March 15, 2024.
@mikeroberts4260
Күн бұрын
@@bobcva3627 Lower inputs of energy doesn't make that "good life" sustainable. Harvesting wind energy also takes non-renewable resources. I wish we could all understand the unsustainability of modern living and recognise that only utilising renewable resources is the only way any lifestyle can be sustainable. Even then, those resources can only be utilised below there renewal rates. If we all understood that, then the discussion could yield the least painful way down. As you mention, eating plants and animals (not intensively farmed) is probably the only way to be sustainable and all other species do this.
@justcollapse5343
17 сағат бұрын
Yep - siloed thinking again. This is entirely understandable of course - increased specialisation and complexity is only one of many reasons why #collapse is inevitable. This is why this podcast is so important for bringing like minds together whilst expanding the understanding of others.
@dennisroland5654
8 сағат бұрын
I heard no mention of "methane ices" (clathrates). They lie on the sea floor in cold waters, and release the methane as the waters warm. The total quantity available is enormous. Methane traps much more heat than does carbon dioxide does. It breaks down fairly rapidly, ten year time frame, but in the process is converted to CO2...so its warming effect continues.
@alexzimmi4827
19 сағат бұрын
"Well scientists are people ..." - scientist here, can confirm
@donniemoder1466
Күн бұрын
Good guest and questions. Yeah, people got to stop fighting people, LOL.
@thunderstorm6630
Күн бұрын
so 3 degrees C warming on average is like plus 9 to 10 over land
@fredbucheit2158
Күн бұрын
I wonder how much of this "information" about global warming is designed to persuade rather than to inform. The reason I suggest that is because there are about 10 times as many people die from the cold compared to the heat, and therefore global warming will actually save lives. I've never heard that fact mentioned once in any talk about climate change. I think that is too weird to dismiss as irrelevant. So, is it possible that the massive amount of global warming information is just propaganda from one or another interest group?
@deepashtray5605
Күн бұрын
Does that include crop failure, flooding, wildfires...?
@chrisvernon3156
Күн бұрын
@@deepashtray5605exactly. It's not the *heat* that will kill (many) people, it's the breakdown of our infrastructure, our agricultural system, the hydrological cycle etc.
@ErnestOfGaia
Күн бұрын
What level of sea level rise starts causing problems for the 200 nuclear reactors that are cooled by sea water?
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
Cooling by immersion?
@mikemccarthy1638
Күн бұрын
3 - 6 meters, not counting tsunamis
@ErnestOfGaia
Күн бұрын
@@mikemccarthy1638 wow, so thwaits glacier
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
With zero emissions he says it would stop the warming. However why do we have diminishing emissions and exponential CO2 concentration?
@dbadagna
Күн бұрын
He's wrong.
@justcollapse5343
17 сағат бұрын
@@dbadagna Yep - tragic to witness.
@zoecohen9071
12 сағат бұрын
I have much respect for Nate and Stefan, however I am concerned that there were two scientific gaps in this conversation. One was that I don't think Stefan mentioned that the '50% emissions reduction by 2030 for a 50% chance of staying below 1.5C' also assumes a huge amount of 'negative emissions' from carbon sucking machines, ie, technology which is unproven at scale etc etc Also I dont think any mention of aerosols in this conversation and James Hansen's 'Faustian bargain' of heating when they are reduced This feels like two pretty big omissions And finally, its pretty disappointing to say the least to say to people that they just need to vote! There's no politician to vote for who is honest enough to propose the level and speed of change needed, even of it were possible
@leonsappl
Күн бұрын
At 35:00 and that's just the average land temp. In Australia we often have heat waves over summer where for 1-2 weeks temps are 5-10°C above the summer average.
@JaseboMonkeyRex
6 сағат бұрын
I was unaware of the basic physics between the oceans and land temperature... that a 3c as an average would be 6c over land due to the oceans being 71% of the world. It's obvious that we won't be able to adapt to this scale of warming.....
@TennesseeJed
Күн бұрын
🌎
@juliebarks3195
Күн бұрын
🤫
@mellonglass
Күн бұрын
Great synopsis. Question: what does *denial* look like and how is it best addressed with a language of denial?
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
It's a river in Africa.. as the joke goes.😅
@mellonglass
Күн бұрын
@@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220 maybe at the end of denial there is an opening into the ocean?
@brianwheeldon4643
Күн бұрын
If everyone who's made a comment herein put aside their differences, and yes I know I'm one of them, and organised with each other and any climate group, environmental group, trades union organisation, it would make a difference. Felt I had to say it, it's my frustration showing..
@CarolFoegen
Күн бұрын
Excellent, just curious, what would a super volcano going off do to change this scenario?
@chrisvernon3156
Күн бұрын
'Nuclear' winter for a decade, crash agricultural, civilization collapse, population collapse - then climate returns to where it was, minus the ongoing anthropogenic emissions.
@CarolFoegen
Күн бұрын
@@chrisvernon3156 Yes but after heating exactly how might that change. Yes ash cloud would bring loss of sunlight but on a much hotter world. Would that change anything pr things would just be the same. Also I heard global warming might trigger volcanic activity is this true, do you know.
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
That phrase “these people are not really looking for solutions” when science is essentially not responding in any way the economy’s frequent doubling of its interference with nature, as well as climate! So, with all of our authorities have such narrow views, where are the good parental voices to look sit as a whole????
@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220
Күн бұрын
Adults are out..shopping probably
@theowright765
Күн бұрын
Ive been spooked from the mid 80s too after reading james lovelock.... the gaia hypothesis... Also as an only child not so distracted by TV and radio always seemed obvious that resurrecting previously captured energy would cause something to eventuate beyond generational control. The world wars had me still beliveing that we dont make very good choices or decisions that were easily lead to self destruction with some unconscious idea that the strong will survive.... insidious
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
The ‘rub’ seemed to be that our form of scientific knowledge, seeing nature as the rules we can find, makes it blind to the nature of flowing and contextual organization of great variety. There ARE interesting unnoticed transformations that could well apply to our situation. I’m thinking of the reversal of growth feedbacks at the growth inflection point of all growth systems that survive it to maturity, also in often called ‘birth.’
@OldScientist
17 сағат бұрын
8:52 So the Eemian interglacial was warmer, but the CO2 was lower.
@rebeccafreeman9747
Күн бұрын
This would explain all the underground tunnels systems found around the world large enough to hold a city...... Going underground would be the only way we would survive the extreme heat
@MarneeMadsen
4 сағат бұрын
This could be from 1984 except the things happened faster than expected
@JessieLydia
Күн бұрын
He could also remark on the unbelievability of it being primarily science, used by business, that gives us the ability to destroy a living planet, and give the people doing it convenient deniability!
@michlwezenngraon7487
21 сағат бұрын
Another highly competent scientist who falls for the fallacy of EVs and renewables (28.01), I quote: 'we can live a really comfortable life without drastic changes'. It is just incredible how people of even this caliber just can't see past their immediate surroundings and circumstances and end up as deluded as the ordinary punter. Very depressing...
@moriz1037
Күн бұрын
Most guests recommendations for young people are bullshit and Nate knows it hes just being polite. First and foremost young people should learn how to grow their own food (permaculture), craftsmanship, buy a gun, try to find like-minded people who are willing to form a self sufficient community, and move to a remote area that is projected to be habitable in like 40years... I am certain nate would agree with this. I know Richard Heinberg does.
@Zanderzan1983
Күн бұрын
Why do climate scientists always use a doubling of co2 as a reference point, rather than, say, a 60% increase? It is doubtful that co2 will double due to peak oil and geopolitics
@klondike444
Күн бұрын
@Zanderzan1983 Did he mention doubling? I'm afraid I did some skimming. It's hard to believe he's not at least aware of peak oil, but there's still coal. Let's face it, humans will always get to the stage of "What else can we burn?".
@Zanderzan1983
Күн бұрын
@@klondike444 he did yeah. I agree we'll burn everything but for infrastructure collapse
@kurtklingbeil6900
Күн бұрын
Why do you ask dumb disingenuous questions from a position of ignorance and oppositional defiance disorder? Your preferences are irrelevant. Since the end of the last glaciation global CO2 concentration has been 225-250ppm Current concentration is ~440ppm. That is already knocking on the door of doubling - dummy. Local/regional conditions already increase the effective CO2 equivalent GHG higher yet. Your point is irrelevant and adds nothing except noise which must be filtered out
@chrisvernon3156
Күн бұрын
The doubling of CO2 is not any kind of real world projection, it's just scientific convention when calculating climate sensitivity.
@kurtklingbeil6900
Күн бұрын
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_sensitivity
@Rawdiswar
Күн бұрын
The ink in water comparison was laughingly bad, as was the piss.
@mvondoom
23 сағат бұрын
dear Nate (or anybody if you have an answer) thanks for such a great episode! i'm wondering about ground temperatures as the weather warms, will those change too? Where I live, the ground is always a pretty constant temperature near around 60 degrees fahrenheit. My basement is always cool because of this. Will ground temperatures change, and how much, as the rest of the systems, i.e. air and water change? thanks!
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