The longsword man seemed to have to compromise/adapt his style to his opponent much more than the rapier man. The longsword man would not normally have his guard so far forward.
@ravshakehgilgamesh6083
3 жыл бұрын
Perhaps the Rapier user was better in this instance. Especially when lunging and blocking the opponent's sword at the same time.
@randysavage1
3 жыл бұрын
Rapier dude would have a dagger in his other hand
@shockwave6213
3 жыл бұрын
@@randysavage1 Not always.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
3 жыл бұрын
There are many guards in longsword, using extended forward guards like langort, Eisenport and Kron against a much faster point orientated weapon comes from experience of facing those weapons. This is the reality of mixed weapon fighting, some techniques need to be emphasised or not to play to strengths and avoid pitfalls. The rapier had to compromise just as much. At the core of rapier fencing is the aim to dominate the centre line and control the opponents blade, which can almost never be done against a sword handed sword as they have leverage against you no matter how good your blade domination skills are.
@Dante-mw2ez
3 жыл бұрын
Because rapiers are dueling weapons and better in 1v1 fights than a longsword, if you don’t adjust you die.
@chazzyco
9 жыл бұрын
0:09 "You there! man with the rapier! i challenge you to a duel!" "listen, i don't want any trouble. just out for a stroll" "en garde!"
@SavageInsight
10 жыл бұрын
Years later, still one of my favorite sparring matches - It takes out the bad conjecture about rapiers vs longswords - both are aggressive, though I feel the longsword could be a bit more, and the rapier doesn't look like a "sissy" weapon, but in fact a deadly match to the longsword.
@Indubitably14
10 жыл бұрын
The rapier has more reach because it's one-handed, but I imagine the blows from a longsword would be more damaging.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
The cuts are much more powerful yes, but the thrust is lethal from either.
@wyattw9727
10 жыл бұрын
You don't have to kill your opponent in a sword-fight. You just have to injure them enough to the point that they can no longer fight, allowing you to then either dispatch them with little fuss or take them prisoner in a military setting. Plus, especially in an older period of time, simple cuts and scrapes can lead to nasty infections.
@jamesrofl1
10 жыл бұрын
Considering they're probably not using swords of the same weight (and material) as their historical counterparts, they wont carry the same momentum as they would have in real life. If that long sword was heavier, the rapier just wouldn't have the inertia to stay in the guys hand when that long sword is swung at arms length as low to the base of the rapier you can get. I know nothing about sword fighting but I'd be betting on the longsword.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
jamesrofl1 The swords in this video were both of historical weight and construction, and of almost the exact same weight (to within about 50 grams). Longswords typically weighed 1.3-1.7kg. amd rapiers, 1.2-1.5kg, depending on their dimensions. It has been proven in historical record and modern reconstruction many times that a rapier can withstand and parry a longsword, providing that parry is made in the strong/forte of the blade. And that two will ensure the rapier is not beaten from your hands, it is all a matter of leverage. The rapier was purpose designed and worn for this kind of one on one unarmoured fight, and it excelled at it. And this is using rapier solo, when it was frequently used with something in the offhand, such as a dagger, and that makes it an even more potent weapon.
@wyattw9727
10 жыл бұрын
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Also, any strike that would potentially knock the Rapier out of your hands, or be so strong you could not safely parry without leaving yourself open- would both be telegraphed by the longsword and leave the wielder completely open to a strike, or be easily dodged and possibly followed up with a strike if they've winded their-selves.
@Tentunf
9 жыл бұрын
Absolutely excellent video. I immensely enjoyed the blow by blow descriptions and slow mo replays to show the strikes in detail.
@Nikos3000
12 жыл бұрын
Nice, the sabre certainly became popular a long time earlier there than the rest of Europe. One thing to consider though is that the rapier style of hilt was fitted on all sorts of blades. The swords carried by both infantry and cavalry in war certainly had rapier style hilts in that period, but the blades were shorter and substantially more robust and better at cutting than what we think of as a rapier.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Always. But in this video we were looking at fighters of equal skill to compare the two weapons. The quality of a fighter's abilities should be the key aspect, but there are plenty of examples where one weapon gives a substantial advantage over another, just like spear vs longsword for example.
@JZ909
6 жыл бұрын
Watching this, it became very apparent the different contexts in which these swords would be useful in. The rapier was fast and had tremendous reach, but barely any direct defensive value, which makes sense for it as a dueling setting, where you have room to maneuver. The longsword had these great, powerful slicing movements, which could just as easily defend as attack, something necessary while fighting in massed formations where you don't have the room to maneuver. I had known of these differences before, but it's so much more apparent when you see it in a video like this.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Not nearly as common as rapier vs rapier or similar one handed swords, but it certainly happened a fair number of times. There are coroners reports supporting it, accounts of sword schools trying it and a few brawls happening as well. The longsword was carried as a civilian weapon just as the rapier was, and lasted into the late 16th century, when the rapier rose to popularity around 1550.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
The rapier didn't evolve because armour 'improved'. It didn't really appear until the middle of the 16th century and in part due to the decline of armour, and in a time when you more likely needed a sword to defend your life in the street, it was perfectly suited.
@Arrowtone
5 жыл бұрын
Mr. Nick, what rapier lineage do you study?
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
The term longsword in most eras has referred to a two handed sword, and not of the size of a greatsword/zweihander. Just look up the historical fight manuals of Paulus Hector Mair, Meyer, Danzig, ringeck, or Fiore. It was a devlopment on from the bastard swords (which were more universal swords for one or two handed use), onto a sword specifically for two hands. These swords typically weigh 1.4-1.6kg, unlike the greatswords of much larger size and weight. (Around 2.2 - 3kg)
@chiefbluebear2991
5 жыл бұрын
What Rapier sword is being used for sparring in this video?
@northstar8818
8 жыл бұрын
The rapier seems so flexible ! Can it effectively block a longsword strike without it's blade just bending, letting the sword go through before coming back into shape ?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
It is only flexible for safe thrusting in sparring, as is the longsword as well, and yes it will parry a longsword just fine. Parries are made with the first half of the blade, as with all swords, and a rapier is very strong in this part. It does not flex at this point on impact.
@northstar8818
8 жыл бұрын
Thank you every much !
@Duchess_Van_Hoof
8 жыл бұрын
Early rapiers where very similar to knight swords and side swords and thus very capable at that. They were built for it after all.
@CollinClary
12 жыл бұрын
What state do you live in? If you live in New York, you could always contact Adam Adrian Crown and ask if you can arrange lessons. If you don't live in NY, look around for schools of historical/classical fencing close to your area. And more importantly, how much are you willing to commit to learning this weapon? It takes years to master the sword. Every day for two weeks isn't enough.
@El_Galaxias
3 жыл бұрын
thanks to KZitem to bring up me here
@dragonwithamonocle
11 жыл бұрын
Wow, that's really funny! I'll be sure to spread the word so more people hear about it.
@gretschbasher
7 жыл бұрын
I'm new to Western Martial Arts, so maybe someone here can answer this question. When I watch fencing videos, it seems the footwork is mostly fought in a straight line, while in boxing you never back up in a straight line because your opponent only has to take that extra step forward to counter the retreat, wouldn't it be more beneficial in a real world situation to retreat and attack at harder angles to open up holes in your opponents defense to counter the counter?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
7 жыл бұрын
Depends on the sword style. Most of the styles we teach in the club are predominately linear, as most styles from the late 16th century onwards were, and that says a lot about its effectiveness. Linear is efficient, and excellent at minimising openings. There are some sword styles that continued on with a lot of circular footwork, like Spanish destreza, and many earlier styles used a lot more of it to. The reason it is different to boxing is simply the fact that there is a blade involved. Almost every fight involved a single long bladed weapon, and that can be used to parry any incoming strike. Many offline steps are slow compared to their linear counterparts, and also expose the offside, when the sword is needed in front to protect. There are offline steps used even in many predominately linear styles though, they are just not the norm.
@Demonwulf
12 жыл бұрын
Of course, a swing from a longsword could easily cripple limbs, while a rapier is mostly deadly against the torso. A rapier is also designed to slip through the rib cage easily, the longsword not as much; but a thrust from the longsword would still be incapacitating, the rapier would be outright fatal on the upper torso.
@Drelam
7 жыл бұрын
Dude with the longsword held up much better against the rapier then I thought he would. Rapier definitely has the advantage in a one on one duel.
@JuanReyes-qf4hn
3 жыл бұрын
I agree
@Ranstone
3 жыл бұрын
Nope. There's (practicaly) no scenario where the rapier can disable the longswordman without receiving a counter strike and more grievous wounds. Many of the manuals warn against thrusting for this reason. Thrusts are more lethal in the span of 24 hours, but you can get run clean through the lung and not even notice it for 5-10 seconds. Ask me how I know.
@natanvandoorn5660
2 жыл бұрын
But if the longsword wielder had armor on, the longsword wielder would have a huge advantage because a rapier isn't made for penetrating armor, but for dueling, while a longsword is.
@g4m3ov3er8
2 жыл бұрын
@@natanvandoorn5660 A longsword isn‘t made for penetrating metal plates either
@harrykadaras9459
2 жыл бұрын
This was pretty telling..better footwork, positioning and movement would have made a bigger difference.
@harunsuaidi7349
6 жыл бұрын
2:54 the importance of handguard
@ciCCapROSTi
9 жыл бұрын
This was great. Nice to see the interaction of different weapon types. Tourneys are usually same vs same, because that's how it's fair, but.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
9 жыл бұрын
shinarit Indeed. In reality it was extremely common for weapons to not match. In an organised duel, yes they typically would, but in all other fights. Be it brawls, fights between militia and gangs, highwaymen, bodyguards and all sorts.
@eddieguererro46
8 жыл бұрын
+Academy of Historical Fencing you dont even have to look that far, how about in WAR. Different armies from different areas of the world rarely had the same weapons.
@Darfail
8 жыл бұрын
why did the guy with the longsword not end his opponent rightly by throwing his pommel?
@Strideo1
8 жыл бұрын
No one expects to be ended rightly by an opponent throwing his pommel. That move is just over powered!
@4rreste409
8 жыл бұрын
they are just sparring no need to exaggerate
@Darfail
8 жыл бұрын
Snoop Azlan LOL
@konfunable
8 жыл бұрын
What is this with the ending rightly? Why do I see this joke everywhere???
@4rreste409
8 жыл бұрын
Mindaugas how new are you?
@Nikos3000
12 жыл бұрын
Actually when we do this the contact levels are the same, and harder still when I fight other fencers around the world. I have received longsword cuts that broke the bars of my guard and lost a quillion once. Against sustained blows of that force, the rapier merely uses footwork and distance to avoid, and the large openings created to thrust between, before and after the cuts of the longsword. I happily go full contact against longsword, but would always prefer a dagger in the left hand, always.
@mwfmtnman
Жыл бұрын
Thing is, you add a shield to the long sword as many used, rapier is done. I get you are doing court dueling, but ...
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
In my experience of this against a range of opponents and in various clubs, the rapier has the advantage. Most longswordsman try and be aggressive and close quickly with powerful strikes and this is their undoing as the disengage and thrust of the rapier is simply so quick. But like against the spear, if they can close safely they do well.
@lindybeige
11 жыл бұрын
Interesting. My teacher thinks very little of Meyer's forward guard and rolling techniques, saying that they were for sport fencing and not real combat, and leave the forearms far too exposed for a real fight.
@inframatic
4 жыл бұрын
Your teacher should do more research on sport fencing, especially Epee where a hit to the forearm is a point. Also, has he never heard of a hilt?
@andrewv.157
3 жыл бұрын
@@inframatic why are you talking about points ? Talks about Real fight.
@thomastucker7317
3 жыл бұрын
@@inframatic He isn't referring to modern sport fencing, he's saying that the specific techniques from Meyer (his 'forward guard and rolling techniques') would have only been useful for sportive events of the day, (friendly tournaments, fechtschule where bouts would be fought to the first bleeding head wound with bluntened training swords). The validity of the criticism of Meyer is questionable I think, the idea that Meyer is just 1500s sports fencing is a meme tbh
@marcosmadrid1135
8 жыл бұрын
darksouls 4 looks great
@energyfitness5116
8 жыл бұрын
Dat Baller Swag Sword...
@kosc88
8 жыл бұрын
Now they should do dark sword vs estoc;)
@CreeperFino
6 жыл бұрын
I don't have enough DEX to use rapiers ;-;
@twocupterry
5 жыл бұрын
huh?
@Skyisgoingbacktopluto
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, not sure how I feel about it though. 3 felt like a nice conclusion.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Unless the enemy has studied his Agrippa, and I have...Actually the most amusing quote is about using Bonneti's defence...I saw it fitting considering the rocky terrain. Only funny if you know Bonneti's first name was Rocco. One line few will ever notice.
@egjundis
4 жыл бұрын
that's wonderful to know. Makes that entire scene stand out that much more as an homage to the old masters.
@egjundis
4 жыл бұрын
@Guacamole Nigga Penis hmmmm it was a book first. No one creates easter eggs like that unless they are first a fan. You name though - should I even ask what you are fan of? On the real though, I think you are right, both characters would fight the old masters if they could have gotten a chance.
@OneEyedJack1970
3 жыл бұрын
@@egjundis As Humperdink noticed from studying the scene of the fight, they were both masters.
@Nikos3000
12 жыл бұрын
In my experience, fhe more aggressive, the more angry and the more power the longswordsman use, the more they suffer.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Bear in mind in a duel weapons are normally 'matched', this fight more represents a street fight. as the longsword survived well into the rapier period and plenty accounts exist of them facing one another. The rapier does have a little advantage over the longsword in one on one unarmoured combat, and with the addition of an offhand dagger, a major advantage. Being a street fight, you'd use what you carried.
@bruceburns405
10 жыл бұрын
I do enjoy this bout, as it illustrates the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two fighting styles that existed side by side for a considerable time. Authors/Fight Choreographers, notice what does and does not work for each. While the rapier was in-line with an effective threat, the longsword was checked quite well, but a missed cut or a superficial wound allowed devastating long blows in counter.
@Falcobird01
7 жыл бұрын
1:06 That was interesting; I'll have to learn that.
@lunarbreeze5019
10 жыл бұрын
How do you guys deal with GIANTDAD invaders in these matches?
@wolfwarlordjake8992
7 жыл бұрын
Parry 'em. But then again The Legend 'll just get back up and pwn them.
@colossaltitan3546
3 жыл бұрын
Backstab all day long
@QuantumPyrite_88.9
8 жыл бұрын
I watched the arm and blade movement the first time . The second time - the foot work - center of gravity and posture . The secret - is the synthesis of excellent eye / hand coordination and footwork . Thanks for an outstanding contribution .
@trefod
10 жыл бұрын
The Rapier seems to dictate style over the longsword. It become a reach match.
@megadeth22885
10 жыл бұрын
pit a rapier against a claymore or a zweihander.. would love to see the dumbass with the rapier try blocking or out reaching one of those
@trefod
10 жыл бұрын
megadeth22885 Yes and a pole arm is longer still... What is your point?
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
megadeth22885 Yes, you can always get a bigger and more powerful weapon, but that misses the point entirely. Rapier's were carried for self defence, zweihanders were not.
@megadeth22885
10 жыл бұрын
it doesnt miss the point completely, longswords were carried in combat and the guy using it not dressed for combat so its a false scenario
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
megadeth22885 Please go and do some research. The longsword was carried in civilian life also, it was in fact a very universal weapon, and almost every manual devoted to it's study deals with unarmoured fighting for fights in a civilian context. In war, longswords were carried also, but then typically as secondary weapons.
@odysseus9504
2 жыл бұрын
It's so crazy how you chose this song. As a kid I always imagined myself with a rapier fighting a ton of Spanish guards dancing across the floor. I am pursuing HEMA now but you just dug up a long lost memory for me. Thanks!
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
That is a good point (no pun intended). I ordered that sword as a custom order back in about 2006/7, back when long rapiers were hard to come by and that was the standard length used by groups in the UK. By the time it had arrived I had already (through my constant research of Capo Ferro) adjusted what I was using. A Darkwood 42", and more recently I have gone to a Darkwood 45" as my favoured rapier, both of which are within the range of correct for my height of 5 foot 7.
@relativisticvel
9 жыл бұрын
Why is the long-sword guy not closing hard the few times he bound and only rarely binding? Is it just really hard to bind properly to a rapier?
@Is523APrimeNumber
9 жыл бұрын
+Jorge Emrys Landivar It is, I can confirm from experience. You'd think that the longsword's heavier blade would help you, but the truth is that the rapier is so fast that it's difficult to trap. This rapier is a little on the heavy side of its category and closer to side swords, but the ones we use in our group are extremely fast weapons. If you try to commit to a bind, the rapier can pull back/down, go around your blade and strike very quickly.
@keggerous
10 жыл бұрын
I like how he comes under the blade of the long sword with his thrusts. Then brings his whole arm and lower portion of the blade up to block the counter strike.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
It is in fact a core principal of many fighting forms (Capo Ferro, Rowarth, Meyer etc) to rise into a hanging posture after having made an attack to protect the head and upper target zones from powerful ripostes. You can see this in longsword, rapier, sabre, messer etc. It is a good rule of swordsmanship and will save you from many counters and afterblows.
@ivyssauro123
10 жыл бұрын
The Longswordsman is highly skilled to be able to overcome the rapiers reach and speed! even though he gets hit many times, nothing really fatal, while he delivers killing blows as counter attack Great video!
@manueldelbusto725
6 жыл бұрын
Ivo Wilson "Nothing really fatal" gets a hole on his throat multiple times...
@inframatic
4 жыл бұрын
Are we watching the same fight? the Longsword guy died like 10x over
@martialme84
5 жыл бұрын
This right here... This might be the single, only ever video i ever watched, which got better by adding music. Usually i hate it. Here i love it. Well done.
@ericnesbitt1734
5 жыл бұрын
good vid I liked the music nice choice. Nice sparring from both fencers! You have to be careful drawing conclusions like the rapier is better than the longsword in one on one duels like this, as it depends more on the fencers. This longsword fencer did better than most on youtube longsword vs rapier duels I've seen, because he was more aggressive. But you still see him playing the rapiers game which is the intuitive thing, a distance and thrusting game that the longsword is at a disadvantage in, when I saw the text saying meyers longsword I was hoping to see the longswordman use guards like day and change, attack with the change cut, circle and the rose. Meyer often instructs to use cuts to take out the opponents sword and then enter. It will also be difficult for a rapier'ist to safely stop a strong loaded cut from the longsword he could counter thrust but it would be safer to void and attempt to thrust when the longsword is in-between motions, which is easier said then done when the guy springs at you.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
This was close to full contact anyway, and especially more recently when we have done it as our protective gear has improved substantially. The longsword weilder looks like he is going light because he has to be a lot more cautious to refine his movements to catch those thrusts. The harder hitting the more aggressive the longsword fighter the easier they fall to the thrust. I have done this against longsworders who have done as such and hit so hard I have broken a few bars of the rapier guard.
@AuroraDoesSwords
9 жыл бұрын
Ah, I see you have studied your Capo Ferra!
@dominicletourneau8940
10 жыл бұрын
It's interesting to see how chaotic an actual sword fight is when your used to the choreography of the movies. I'm starting to wonder if it was possible escape a fight unscathed in history. I can't imagine a real fight exchanging any more than a few blows before it was over with both combatants wounded in some form or other.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
10 жыл бұрын
There certainly are plenty of accounts of both fighters being wounded, even both dying, but there are also scores of accounts where one party won the fight unscathed. And yes, in an unarmoured encounter as represented here, a fight is likely to be over in 1-3 hits.
@Nikos3000
9 жыл бұрын
***** It happens in fights with all weapons. There are plenty of accounts of the same with longsword and sabre for example.
@Dead_Goat
7 жыл бұрын
Any sword fight resulted in one cut up and the other dead.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
7 жыл бұрын
No it didn't, countless primary source evidence does not support that conclusion. Some did end that way, many did not.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
5 жыл бұрын
@Tracchofyre Yes. More is always better of course, but we have a huge amount of data to work from.
@theSneakySasquatch
10 жыл бұрын
so for all the bs everyone makes up about how the rapier is unbeatable in a lightly armored fight due to speed, in the end either sword stands a fair chance at winning. I'm beginning to think that the longsword (several of its evolutionary types that is) is probably the most versatile sword in history. could an expert (which i certainly am NOT) give an opinion on this?
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
There are unfortunately all kinds of horrible myths about the rapier, from the fact it can't cut, it can't kill, it's too flimsy, all to that its unbeatable and the best sword ever made. As you have realised, the differences in swords are marginal compared to the quality of the fighter. Certain weapons have an advantage over others in particular circumstances, and most longswordsmen come unstuck by the rapier the first few times they face it, but with experience, as Mike has had, that advantage can be closed. Yes the longsword is a very universal sword, likely one of the most in history.
@thelonerider5644
6 жыл бұрын
Thanks for posting this, two of the coolest historical weapons... always interesting to see mismatched fighting.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
That is from a famous treatise on the use of the rapier by Capo Ferro (1610). Depiction of the human form was popular in art of the period and also specifically for the anatomy of the character. It was never intended anyone fight this way, and in fact the first 'plate' in the manual shows two swordsman meeting to fight in full clothing and drawing swords.
@deviwaazaa
9 жыл бұрын
Of course a rapier would defeat a longsword in a duel between unarmored warriors. Rapiers were excellent in unarmored duels, in fact I'd personally say it's what they are best at. However, against a knight in full plate the longsword wielding gentlemen would generally win. To win with a rapier you'd need to target the few spots that can't have armor due to articulation issues (ie armpit, back of leg) but the knight would already have closed in and have you on the ground ready to finish you off before you could achieve that precise strike. Plus flexible "springy" swords that specialise in thrusting are known to be utterly useless against full plate, commonly breaking or bending. That's the thing with swordsmanship, full plate armor is generally just too damn good against even master level swordplay. That's why blunt force weapons such as the hammer were used against knights. Same with samurai vs knight, the knight wins simply because the katana won't cut through the armor. Take the armor away however, then the outcome is far more unpredictable.
@Nikos3000
9 жыл бұрын
You say 'of course a rapier would defeat a longsword'.in this circumstance, but then most people would not think or believe such. As for considering armour, it isn't relevant, as the long bladed rapiers as seen in our videos were not carried on the battlefield and not used against armoured opponents. Whereas the longsword was carried in and used in civilian life like the rapier was.
@taylorp.2872
9 жыл бұрын
Yes, and to top it off the use of the rapier was oddly slow in its use.
@MixexiM
9 жыл бұрын
Taylor P. I think it's because it's a heavier variant that can actually slice some one's face open if sharpened as opposed to Olympic fencing swords. I don't know enough about historical fencing to be sure though.
@taylorp.2872
9 жыл бұрын
A rapier is not ment to be very heavy, it is ment to be used swiftly with flow, grace, and most of all panash!
@MixexiM
9 жыл бұрын
Taylor P. I'm curious where you're citing this from. I used to do sports fencing, the epee I used never weighed more than a pound. The rapier shown seems at least more than twice that weight, so I'd assume it takes alot more effort to do the same moves.
@justinmcvay9458
10 жыл бұрын
You guys are wasting your time arguing with megadeth22885. He doesn't know what hes talking about, and if you look at his page, its endless comments of people telling him off because he is ignorant in all of his comments.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
Yep, don't feed the troll :-)
@Sebbabix
11 жыл бұрын
This is incredible! Very helpful to have the slow mo and commentaries too as it moves pretty quickly for someone that doesn't know swordplay that well
@lorwatcher
11 жыл бұрын
First: I always enjoy your sparring videos. Thanks for putting them up for public consumption. To the point: I wonder why the choice of such a relatively short rapier for Capo Ferro? My own blade, by CF's writings, would be 49" long. In my group's practices this gives an often significant advantage over Meyer's longsword. Is it simply a matter of what you had available (which I fully understand), a personal preference, or do you have a different interpretation on CF's blade length?
@TiredTransbian
10 жыл бұрын
It's vital to remember that the longsword was a battlefield weapon, while the rapier was made primarily for dueling.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
You have to be very careful about lumping them into such distinct categories. The longsword was much more universal than that. In fact the vast majority of documented manuals teaching longsword deal with unarmoured civilian combat. And the rapier was not made for duelling, but self defence. Most swords were used for duel, when they were the popular sword of their day. Also as for the rapier not being a battlefield weapon, no not as we think of it today as the very fine long bladed weapon. The one in this video is actually of a type used both in civilian and military life.
@TiredTransbian
10 жыл бұрын
Nikos3000 How about this then, " The rapier was designed for thrusting at unarmoured targets almost exclusively, and the longsword was designed for both cut and thrust against both armoured and unarmoured targets, as one would more frequently see on a medieval battlefield." More accurate, and infinitely harder to type.
@Candesce
10 жыл бұрын
Michael Canfielt That's kind of a silly comparison as the reason why rapiers came about was because armour was made obsolete by firearms in the first place. In a world where armour was a moot point, rapiers became the more efficient weapon.
@TiredTransbian
10 жыл бұрын
***** Are they using guns in this duel? No? Then the reasons they came about are a non-issue. And you can bet that if guns hadn't been discovered the longsword would have kept right on being used, and armor as well.
@TheChiconspiracy
10 жыл бұрын
WRONG. Spanish rodeleros were some of the deadliest swordsmen on the battlefield, and they used what we would consider a stout rapier in combat to decimate foes like the Swiss pikeman and even heavily armored infantry wielding two handed swords. That the rapier is only used in civilian dueling concept is a MYTH.
@gorgonzolastan
5 жыл бұрын
Maybe modern engineers could design something better, but it seems like for a one on one duel the rapier was the high point of European sword design.
@griffin98
5 жыл бұрын
A zweihander or other large sword can Match a rapier
@alexsm3882
5 жыл бұрын
@@griffin98 They did clash actually, and contrary to what should be expected the zweihander didn't completely obliterate the rapier, german mercenaries carrying zweihanders got killed against rapiers too... As to which is more effective, I'd say it probably depends on the conditions and the users... I mean, which is better, a handgun or a rifle? If the guy using it can aim for the head or heart, does it really matter?
@Trikipum
4 жыл бұрын
@@griffin98 No.. that thing is too slow.. hell.. do you even know what that sword was used for?... it was made to fight fucking pikes and the guys carrying it needed backup.. only the biggest guys could handle it...Where the germans used those things to fight pikes, from above, the spanish used guys with rapiers and small shields and hit the same pikes from bellow...
@CoffeeSnep
5 жыл бұрын
Some of these comments are a little dumb. Yes the rapier is superior in unarmored combat. Yes the longsword is superior in armored combat. But its not because it can cut, pierce, or deliver blunt damage with the blade. Plate armor was specifically designed to stop this and laugh it off. Half swording in areas covered in maille with a perpendicular thrust (really hard) or flipping the sword to deliver a mordhau are the only options for defeating someone in plate armor with the long sword. And these are options that a rapier does not have. Case closed.
@clovislfrc9881
8 жыл бұрын
Favorite HEMA Weapon guys? Mine's the rapier :D
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
+AFCATFE Please post to our club page which I am now posting to. We have migrated to their as it is a shared channel for both instructors. However, briefly, it is so difficult to choose a favourite. I am always torn between rapier (with a dagger), and sabre.
@markvanbeelen2636
8 жыл бұрын
+Dai Hoc Ngoai Thuong Khoa Quoc Te gotta love Rotella
@Josiahelder
10 жыл бұрын
I like how this shows neither as 'better', just that they are different
@yblignomis
4 жыл бұрын
When the rapier fighter skewers the longswordsman unanswered over and over again?
@RemoveChink
3 жыл бұрын
@@yblignomis The thing is, there is no armor in this equation.
@The_Custos
10 жыл бұрын
Very good to see. A pleasure to see the heavier longsword block and take control of the rapier, and to demonstrate that the rapier used well can parry and block a longsword used two-handed. Which some claim cannot be done. Brilliant gentlemen.
@caracaes
10 жыл бұрын
If the rapier were used in combination with a buckler, he'd own the longswordsman's ass, in my opinion.
@The_Custos
10 жыл бұрын
Quite possibly, with a basket hilt to deflect and absorb a bit more, to stop the chop prior to the forte parry. A spiked buckler would have been perfect.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
Jonatas Silveira Baldo If the rapier adds a companion weapon such as buckler or dagger it does indeed become a very one sided fight. We do this often.
@The_Custos
10 жыл бұрын
Would you think a buckler is best, or a slightly larger shield?
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
thatsnumberwang100 A shield would definitely be better than a buckler. But it is of course not always just what is best, but what you might be carrying in certain circumstances. Shields were used with rapiers, particularly by body guards and militias and various other elements, but in most civilian life a dagger is most likely, or buckler. Dagger is best with rapier as the dagger can parry some of the longsword attacks (rapier used for more powerful parries), and the dagger thrust protects you well from the longswordsman closing to grapple as many will want to.
@teru797
7 жыл бұрын
I want to see a bastard sword/hand and a half sword vs a rapier. Were bastard swords primarily military or both?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
7 жыл бұрын
the early period ones were predominately military, but bastard swords became popular with civilians, a great many renaissance examples can be found in museums, usually with some development of the guard in a similar fashion to the rapier. A bastard sword is just a small longsword though. The one used in this video is fairly small, almost a bastard sword, and might be considered as such by some. Really it just comes down to are you using it in one or two hands, and does it have a more developed guard than just a straight cross.
@Curaissier
5 жыл бұрын
As far as I am aware the main use of the term bastard sword comes from D&D. There are very few historical references to bastard swords. The D&D bastard sword is really a historical long sword.
10 жыл бұрын
Hi there, it seems you uses copyrighted material (music?) so KZitem doesn't allow this video in my country for copyright reason.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
We are a fencing school, not a business, so we feel no need to get licencing for anything. It is unfortunate that copyright laws are different in your country, try using a proxy.
10 жыл бұрын
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas No matter, I can see it now ;) Actually, in any country, you need a license to use a copyrighted music on the internet "Gladiatores" had to remove one of their videos because of that, if I remember correctly. About the longsword fighter, do you know any sourced work where you can see one-handed strike ? It is a great technique, but never checked about it. I think he should try to take more advantage of his sword. He has always the strong, so he could try more technique of strong hand. In this video, he always play in the territory of the rapier : long distances, defense stances, never using (or almost never) the famous "knitting"... ^^ Have fun and thanks for the demonstration ! ;)
@SuperRichyrich11
9 жыл бұрын
Ok you guys. Rapiers are useless against armor, so in unarmored duels, that would have the advantage over the long sword, but if armored, the long sword would render the Rapier futile. Rapiers became more common and popular in europe once armor was done away with. Long swords are far more versatile and damaging, but that doesn't mean much if your opponent can slice up your hands, arms, face etc. before you have a chance to strike him - which would then allow his to finish you off with a thrust to a vital. Rapiers are simply too quick and maneuverable for a long sword to effectively counter in unarmored dueling, and someone with a long sword would not be able to strike a rapier wielding opponent without being outmaneuvered and/or sliced/stabbed first. The best bet for the long sword wielder, is to use the movements of the rapier against the opponent and cut/hack/stab his hands/arms before anything else. This would make it difficult if not impossible for the Rapier to even be used, allowing the long sword to do it's work against the now nearly-defenseless opponent... but still that's easier said than done. Armored Combat: Huge advantage for Long Sword Unarmored Combat: Huge advantage for Rapier. That's it folk... nothing really more to discuss.
@UnKnown-wv3tn
8 жыл бұрын
+Julius Cheeser Agreed for the maneuverable part. But do tell me, why are rapiers useless against armors? In fact, how are they different from the Estoc?
@houndofzoltan
5 жыл бұрын
One handed hits from the longsword in a real fight seem unlikely as there's too little power and a big loss of control.
@gcgrabodan
8 жыл бұрын
So, can we conclude that a rapier is superior for an unarmored duel? (i know it mainly depends on the fighter and so on... But given a specific setting, one of the two simply has to be better, ceteris paribus)
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
Of course the skill of the fighter is the most important factor, but weapon choice can give an advantage, or not, and yes the rapier is quite likely the ultimate sword for unarmoured, one on one fights, assuming open space and swords drawn.
@gcgrabodan
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the reply.
@TimRHillard
2 ай бұрын
Here’s what: would you rather be poked, or slashed? Neither really, but unless the poke is to the head or heart, the poke is less likely to take you out than a slash. Especially if it’s a Longsword. Add some armor to the equation, and the rapier becomes so much less of a danger. Context matters. In sparring, you point every rapier stab. In actual combat, a stab is not equal a slash.
@scottlee38
9 жыл бұрын
Feels like the rapier is is the winner. With decent footwork, it looks quick.
@UnKnown-wv3tn
8 жыл бұрын
+scott lee The rapier is the best dueling sword, with a center of balance so near the guard and a tip almost exclusively for thrusting. A decent fencer with a rapier can outmaneuver a decent long swords-men 9 times out of 10 to deliver fatal thrusts and painful cuts at the hands and fingers.
@alexandrosgrivas4406
8 жыл бұрын
it has a good recovery time its not quick
@Dead_Goat
7 жыл бұрын
Sure it wins if you are forced to stand there and slowly take hits like the guy with the longsword did.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
7 жыл бұрын
No, he was adapting to the fight because he has done it before. We have countless times seen longsword use power and aggression to try and bully the rapier, and been hit 10x as much as a result.
@pivotbroz
8 жыл бұрын
First I have to say, this is an amazing video to watch. Second, What can you reccomend for a good, sturdy (and well priced) rapier to spar with in Canada?
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
+Tonay Thanks! I don't know of any Canadian suppliers, but the closest would be Darkwood Armoury in the US. Get one of their economy line models. Overall pretty good. If you can stretch to it though, order from Danelli in the UK. Also, come and check out the new club channel which we have now moved to and I am posting from here. There is a lot more quantity and variety of content added on a weekly basis.
@youcallthataute6831
8 жыл бұрын
buy a foil and learn properly
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
What kind of foil? A sport foil? They aren't helpful to the practice of rapier. Neither the weapon, the style, nor purpose and approach have much in common.
@tonytony87
8 жыл бұрын
What's the name of this song???
@nitzky8920
8 жыл бұрын
+tonytony87 'Don't let me be misunderstood'
@Darkalfondso
8 жыл бұрын
I sounds lke the song from Kill Bill
@yharnamite
8 жыл бұрын
Darude - Sandstorm
@yabyab
8 жыл бұрын
Don't Let me be Misunderstood by Santa Esmeralda - v=8O0y3Rg2SnI
@jaredmowens
7 жыл бұрын
+Tracks Darren It doesn't just sound like the song from Kill Bill, it is the song from Kill Bill.
@Shiresgammai
Жыл бұрын
The biggest problem with regards to HEMA would be that a “historically oriented” fencer would have to search for all strands of discourse and evidence from the medieval period (law, literature, theology, medicine, historiography, art and cultural history, etc.) and create/collect a corpus of mutually complementary information on exercise methodology, weapon characteristics and application systematics in the various forms of combat, so that they would have the vague possibility of achieving what they want. However, the unfortunate truth is that most HEMA fencers are too lazy to even read about German stage fencing (the only existing descendant art of Liechtenauer’s fencing tradition).
@tomdasilva2060
5 жыл бұрын
Way too much fun... Fun, to watch, as well... It ought to be illegal!!...
@brandyn7396
10 жыл бұрын
nice Kill Bill music
@Zakariia
10 жыл бұрын
Do you know the name of the song?
@brandyn7396
10 жыл бұрын
Nope. Well, I did.. but I forgot it, sorry. xD Id just look up Kill Bill Lucy Lui Theme.
@Zakariia
10 жыл бұрын
Biyoka I i finally found that damn song :D Santa Esmeralda - Don't let me be misunderstood
@brandyn7396
10 жыл бұрын
Zakariia lol nice
@ShaNagmaImmuru
8 жыл бұрын
Very nice sparring session guys good job!
@steelpanther88
9 жыл бұрын
Longswordsman was probably too passive in his tactics. Longswordsman had good judgement of his own attacks, but couple of times was within killing zone of rapier, without even understanding the situation. Rapierman had better distance control overall I would argue - he was able to hang back at suitable rapier distance quite good - where as longswordman was too passive perhaps in closing the distance (the only way to hit powerful strikes at the rapierman) :(
@calm_hawk5167
4 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but this right here is an incredibly inaccurate reconstruction of this historical fight. Had this been accurate to the manuscript Nick simply would've been able to catch Mike's Longsword between his massive asscheeks and quickly finished him with a backhand strike to the beard. 0.09
@crazyt1ger08
4 жыл бұрын
You can see that a practise Rapier's blade is nowhere near as rigid as a fighting Rapier's blade. Keeping in mind that a Rapier's blade was developed from a Longsword/Armingsword's blade, the steel quality had improved allowing a Rapier's blade, having roughly the same amount of steel, to be lengthened at the smaller width without losing any of its strength. So the Rapier's blade was much more rigid than what we see here. Both weapons are superb......
@ripplesnake
8 жыл бұрын
They were fencing not fighting there is a huge difference. The long sword has way more uses than what this guy did. such as jamming, rushing, or leg and arm strikes. A good sword fighter didn't just go for the center mass.
@7yearsryugami169
8 жыл бұрын
exactly too bias on rapier because the guy using long sword is not adept.
@megadeth22885
10 жыл бұрын
put the two in armor and its game over, rapier couldnt pierce it
@MrMrJohannson
10 жыл бұрын
neither would the longsword xD
@megadeth22885
10 жыл бұрын
it wouldnt need to, the sheer power behind a longsword can smash a steel helmet in
@MrMrJohannson
10 жыл бұрын
megadeth22885 Well, you have a point.
@megadeth22885
10 жыл бұрын
Mr. Johannson so do swords
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
For a start, the rapier is a weapon for civilian self defence. Heavier blades were mounted on the same hilts for military combat. As for armour, if you are refereeing to plate as was in use in this period, neither could pierce it with cut or thrust. Thrusting was used in armour for the joints and other weak points. Neither of these swords is suited to armoured combat, and few swords are.
@corvanphoenix
8 жыл бұрын
Hmmm... The commentators of this video were very generous to Mike IMO. He needs a lot of work on his blade alignment when countering.
@zachhowe98
5 жыл бұрын
I think in unarmored dueling the rapier is a better weapon
@dougiequick1
6 жыл бұрын
Seems like one on one a spear is a better edged weapon ...I don't want to fence ...I want to KILL and be done with it...ya know?
@Nikos3000
12 жыл бұрын
Seeing as you are in the US I would recommend heading over the the HEMA (historical european martial arts) alliance page and forum. There will likely be a club in their organization near to you, or they can recommend another to you.
@zakmurphy2987
8 жыл бұрын
longsword fighter seems to be emulating bad kendo... Study up on some English longsword principles.
@AcademyofHistoricalFencing
8 жыл бұрын
English longsword? Lol, a handful of manuals that are vague and not particularly useful. He is a German longsword instructor, and adapting the fight to a rapier at that, which is why it will not look typical of longsword. Try fighting a rapier sometime and you'll understand.
@xClordas
5 жыл бұрын
About 90% of the jabs were made solely because both lose the distance.
@MpowerdAPE
10 жыл бұрын
Im a stationary Engineer ( janitor ), so I speak from experience, if you guys fucked that floor up... somebody is gonna hear about it.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
Sure they would. But in all our years of training in sports halls, the only people I have seen damage the floor are the footballers when they drag the goals around!
@UltimateTrekkie99
10 жыл бұрын
Very nice fighting on both sides. What sort of rapier and longsword are you using for this video? I'm currently using synthetic sparring swords, and me and my sparring partner are interested in moving up to steel.
@Nikos3000
10 жыл бұрын
I cannot recommend either swords in this video, we have since moved to much better. If you want longswords/sabres, go to Peter Regenyei In Hungary, we have about 50 of his swords in the club and they are excellent. If you want rapiers, go to Darkwood Armoury in US, or Danelli Armouries in UK.
@waifu363
5 жыл бұрын
4:10 muerte dramatica.
@basedcrusader8205
10 жыл бұрын
When you train with Darth Vader, you learn a thing or two.
@rustypadlock5129
5 жыл бұрын
horrible choice of music
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Blade length did vary immensely depending on era and particular systems, so it is not that the sword is too short, though it is rather short for practicing Meyer (1570). This video was however taken four years ago when we used Hanwei TInker Pierce longswords (as in vid, 35"), and Albion Meyers. Now we use Peter Regenyei weapons and have them built to our spec, with 38" blades.
@jeffreytubbs8262
6 жыл бұрын
Nice! I thought the guy with the longsword would have a harder time trying to guard the rapier, but he did a really good job. Both guys did!
@ralynedin
8 жыл бұрын
What is the song?
@OrientalStyle47
9 жыл бұрын
i love it :)
@gungriffen
10 жыл бұрын
Where do you get your fencing armor at?
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
But a weapons origins do not necessarily reflect it's use. The rapier did not evolve from weapons intended for civilian combat, they evolved into it. The vast majority of surviving manuals teaching the longsword are teaching civilian unarmoured fighting. I don't believe this video makes the longsword look bad. As a club we train with both and respect them equally, and just because one fairs better in one context than another, does not make it a better weapon.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Firstly, why should every fight be fair? If a heavyweight picks a fight with a featherweight in the street, it isn't fair, but it can be the reality of a real fight. Secondly, it is true that the rapier was intended for one-on-one unarmoured combat. But the longsword was not intended for armoured combat. It was a universal sword design for use in civilian life and war and was carried for self defence just as the rapier was, and it could and did come up against the rapier in such circumstances.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Longsword in the context of the German sword schools as in this video merely means a sword used in two hands. Of which the one here weighs just under 3 lbs. Longswords were typically around 3 lbs. Only the man sized renaissance zweihanders were 7-8lbs and are a very different weapon. It is a common misconception that European medieval and renaissance swords were so substantially heavy and unwieldy. Most in fact as light and fast as anywhere else in the world for their comparative size.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Black powder weapons certainly did, but the pistol did not gain popularity until the 16th century, and only began to replace swords throughout the 17th.Do bear in mind weapons evolve as much as a result of civilian life as military at times. Also, I didn't say there weren't parry riposte techniques, only that they are not the norm in rapier. Yes there are many counter attacks of course.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
The term fencing (meaning practice of defence) is all swordsmanship. There are many reasons why the rapier came to fashion over the longsword, but the longsword was gone from common use a long time before pistols became popular. Also, regular training in rapier will show how working under the opponents blade is very dangerous, to do so against longsword would normally be suicidal, for whether you strike or not, you will almost always be cut very powerfully.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
The point of swordsmanship was never to sweat and exert yourself. So many masters who have left us their works discuss the dangers of rushing in, fighting like a bestial man. Most agree that the ultimate fight is one you win in a single action, not a prolonged movie fight. The ONLY purpose of a fight is to win, that means, defeat your opponent and survive. It is not boxing, it is not wrestling. Post up some vids and let's see your skill.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Never studied anything French. I (rapier user) am a practitioner and teacher of Italian rapier from Capo Ferro. I have fought dozens of spanish style rapier fencers and whilst I find the system interesting, I do not find it as effective as Italian. This includes one of the Vienna rapier tournaments where half the fighters were Spanish style and half Italian, the top two spots were taken by Italian style fencers.
@Nikos3000
11 жыл бұрын
Do not look to movies and competitions to understand what a real fight would like like, they are rarely accurate. A real fight doesn't mean 'blitz', there are all kinds of fights and fighters. Most in a real fight do so cautiously as their life is in danger, some fight like a raging bull/bestial man without regard for their life. Watch some of the last duels ever recorded on film and you will see the real concern for ones life and some way a fight might go.
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