One aspect this video (and I) forgot about: Warheads also have ProneDamage= Basically, a damage-modifier the Warhead will deal with on top of the Verses and CellSpread. An InfantryType counts as "Prone" when it is ducking, not when going up or down from/to Prone state. If a unit, like the Rhino, fires at infantry slow enough it'll only hit the Infantry when it's not Prone. This didn't come up since the Rhino's reload time is as long as the infantry crouch time, so by the time the Rhino has reloaded and fired again, the Infantry has already come out of Prone state and thus gets the full damage after Verses, not the even further reduction set by ProneDamage=50%. Therefore, against Infantry, it might be best to go one-on-one with one Rhino instead of all Rhinos ganging up against a single Infantry. Or just use Alt+LMB for Crush-Move and be done with it if possible. Note: Infantry in deployed state don't count as prone; this is proven by attacking one undeployed and one deployed GI with a low-reload-time weapon. The deployed GI will die first since he never goes prone. 0:42 the *only* things using special_2 are the V3, Dreadnought and Boomer missiles. They're not regular game "Projectiles", they're actually just suicide-AircraftTypes fired at the target and spawned by their units much like Hornets and Ospreys are spawned by Aircraft Carriers and Destroyers. Only difference is those last two are set to return to their spawners, the Missiles aren't. RA2 has no mechanic in place for Projectile Health or ArmorType. The guys making the Phobos DLL are experimenting with it tho. 7:20 this is the newly-discovered "tgSacred" bug. One less damage point than you'd expect from Warhead Verses is actually dealt. Confirmed for Verses 30%, 60%, and 90%. If your Warhead uses one of these Verses then your weapon will deal one damage less against that ArmorType. 9:12 what tg meant here is this: The armor crates and veterancy don't actually increase health/armor if Phobos DLL's Object Dump Info feature is correct. That's what I'm basing my info off of. Phobos keeps saying max HP for Rhino is 400, even after promotion or armor crate, meaning how much "stronger" something is is either not communicated properly to Phobos DLL or the Dump Object Info function (which means I've found a bug or it's just developer oversight) or the game does some other shenanigans. 9:25 that hypothesis might be wrong; that's how it worked in TibSun, but not how it works in RA2. Else the 1.5 value set as the "armor/health" multiplier for the crate would've effectively *halved* resistance.
@gameaddict11707
3 жыл бұрын
9:12 That's exactly right. Armor multipliers don't actually increase the unit's armor, they decrease incoming damage. You can see this if you take a normal unit, damage it to half HP, then repair it, and do the same with an upgraded unit, and it'll take the same amount of time & money.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
@@gameaddict11707 Then the only thing we need to know is *how* that damage reduction is calculated. The crates' Powerups section in rules sets the value to 1.5, meaning the unit should have 50% more "armor" meaning incoming damage decrease of 50%. It's not a straight multiplication like it was in TibSun, else we'd see units actually becoming more vulnerable to damage by 50%. Now that's an idea for a "bad" crate like the other ones WW disabled in RA2...
@HasekuraIsuna
3 жыл бұрын
For the tgSacred Bug: - The video says "against Concrete", but in your comment you leave this out and the way you word it it sounds like _all_ warheads does 1 less damage than expected. (Your "that ArmorType" could point to 'Concrete' in the video or 'that ArmorType the unit has a 30, 60 or 90% Verses against' from your sentence.) Could you clarify? - We do know now that the Rhino does 1 less damage against Concrete, but if we check for Barracks 39 damage against 500 health would take the same hits as the 40 damage suggested by Verses. Just like StarCraft, maybe buildings have 1 armor in the regular meaning of shaving of one damage of all attacks? - On the other hand, this doesn't line up with the Tesla Reactor test: 57 against 750 would take one hit more than 58. _However,_ you assume that fractions are rounded down with a int-function, but what if it's not? What if the Rhino's 58.5 damage is actually rounded properly to 59 and then lowered by the building armor to 58? It could also be that _only Concrete_ gets this 1 building armor, of course. - An easy way to discard my theory would be to just make the Iron Curtain have 7500 Health and the Rhino 900 attack. If there is 1 building armor this should produce the expected 14 hits to kill. (7500/540=13.888...; 7500/539=13.914...) If not, the problem is located in the multiplication which would help home in on the actual cause. I'm sorry if this has all been tested and ruled out already. : )
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
@@HasekuraIsuna Doesn't matter what Warhead's Verse against a specific ArmorType is, if it's 30%, 60%, or 90% then one point of damage less is dealt. I tested this, and tg could've shown it with the Terror Drone too, since Rhino also has 60% vs Drone's special_1 like it does against concrete. Barracks has *steel* , not concrete. Rhino does 45% damage to steel. 45% works as expected. Tesla Reactor is wood, and Rhino does 65% vs wood. It's not that the damages are rounded down, the 0.5 or other numbers after the . are just not parsed. I tested this extensively and messed with stupid values like 91%, 92%, 89%, 58%, 59%, 61&, 62%; those got a 0.6 at times that was just not parsed. I thought about increasing damage and health so I could actually see the numbers, but it was late, and I didn't do it.
@HasekuraIsuna
3 жыл бұрын
@@CnCDune Interesting! I wonder if 120% and 150% also induces the bug? 30, 60, 90 seems to suggest it has something to with the number 3
@fernalon3398
3 жыл бұрын
Another "fun" thing about those Verses values: there are actually a few different types of super ineffective attacks (think Seal vs tanks or tank destroyers verses building) that has special values in verses. A 0% value means "untargetable" - your mouse cursor becomes the "forbidden" symbol when you try to attack nor does ctrl-click work. Example of those include desolator vs buildings or attack dogs against tanks. A 1% value means you can command the unit to attack, but they will not automatically attack the target in range even if they are being attacked by that target. Examples include sniper or Seal vs tanks. A 2% value means it will not automatically attack the target in range, but it will return fire if it is being attacked. Examples include tank destroyers vs infantry or a Seal inside IFV against tanks.
@Hamentsios10
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine one of the devs looking at this. They'll be like, man they really make a big deal out of our game's damage stats.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
I hope one of them does so they can see the bug where at Verses 30%, 60% and 90% (and who knows what other values) the damage dealt is actually off by one point... Maybe they can shed some light on how Verses are applied, and the bug is in there?
@Infarlock
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, imagine you fire an elite V3 launcher from a ROOFTOP and it gets hit by an AA and destroys a carrier plane midair
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
@@Infarlock It's possible; the Hornets have regular light armor, and the Boomer, Dred, V3 missiles do anything from 80% damage to 100% damage to light armor.
@yerr234
3 жыл бұрын
yeah, the 'dynamic' damage system in RA2 is buggy and uses an obsolete mechanism, it is hardly considered dynamic really when you further read into it, but hey that game came out in 2000.
@Hamentsios10
3 жыл бұрын
@@Infarlock Key word ;)
@ComradesChoice
3 жыл бұрын
Damn, this is probably the best Red Alert 2 Armor Guide out there... wait are there even any other Armor Guide videos out there?
@OleksandrSlepnov
3 жыл бұрын
Damn, that's a nice, polished technical video on armor workings that can get some people into modding for RA2. Great work tgSacred, TAK02 and Tutankhamun! Nice editing, polished animations, as far as i can see no misspellings, it's a great video! The only valuable thing missing is Proning and maybe splash damage/CellSpread, but the pinned comment has everything about it. Good job, tg! I'm proud of you!
@OleksandrSlepnov
3 жыл бұрын
Also that credit at the beginning of the video, it's so cool and valuable. The only touch i'd add to these credits is maybe a link to their profile in the description, but i don't know how you were working so it's not up to me
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
@@OleksandrSlepnov I didn't do much, tg did most of the work; all I did was dbl-chking he didn't do wrong things :P Also confirmed the bug with Verses 30%, 60% and 90% at 7:20
@GurgleOneSixSix
3 жыл бұрын
Great presentation. The infoboxes with the font and colours reminds me of Stellaris by the way, in a good way
@maintoph2541
Жыл бұрын
This guide is sooo underated, why no more views?
@liliwinnt6
3 жыл бұрын
for walls damage there are two parameters for the warheads: Walls= yes ; This warhead does damage to concrete walls, default is no WallAbsoluteDestroyer=yes ; This warhead does killing damage to a wall, instead of wounding it, default is no
@Tommy0807Sys
2 жыл бұрын
2:29 Concrete Armor: Construction Yard, Naval Shipyard, Superweapon, and Wall.
@piwdaw
3 жыл бұрын
Thank You Tg. Quality content as usually. Greetings!
@Infarlock
3 жыл бұрын
Love the dramatic music
@sirprize8572
3 жыл бұрын
0:56 this blurb about Concrete armor is worded somewhat deceptively considering what was just explained immediately prior. Concrete's resistance to superweapon damage is not a special property at all, and is purely the result of those superweapons having low damage % values to Concrete on their warheads. Considering the prior message just explained how each armor's damage reduction is determined by individual warhead damage values, it seems weird to then go on and explain this as a "unique" role. Regarding Infantry armor types, a notable exception to the "pretty much everything has none armor" is that the conscript actually has flak armor. Regarding building armor types, several notable exceptions exist to the "everything has wood armor": all 3 factions' barracks, as well as the Allied airforce command, along with a huge swath of civilian buildings. 2:56 There are several things wrong here. The Terror drone doesn't have anything special about it that causes Tanya not to C4 it. The reason she doesn't C4 it is because Her [DoublePistols] Weapon uses the [HollowPoint2] warhead. This warhead does 0% damage against all tanks which forces her to use her Secondary [Sapper] weapon, however it has 1% damage against special_1 meaning her pistols can target the terror drone, just with pitiful damage. Same goes with the Tank Destroyer. Its [SABOT] weapon uses the [UltraAP] warhead, which has 2% damage against all infantry armors. This 2% is also assigned to the special_1 slot in its Verses= entry. I see no indication that this was a mistake, and it was likely completely intentional for tank destroyers to be countered by TDs. Again, in both scenarios, contrary to what is stated in the video _there is no special coding that causes these interactions_ . It is purely a result of the % damage values Westwood assigned to those units' warheads. 9:06 It's actually pretty simple and well-known how armor crates work--it's not all that mysterious after all. A comment in the [Powerups] section tells you exactly how it works: "in reality, damage is divided by this..." No theory required; a unit with an armor crate takes 33% less damage because all incoming damage is divided by 1.5
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
My initial thought was that concrete was designed specifically to resist SW damage. Before publishing the guide I asked an experienced modder to review the guide. Long story short, he told me that concrete was just a better armor. Basically you are correct on what you say but that part with the concrete armor was already created and I didn’t want to change much because after all it was an interesting information.
@sirprize8572
3 жыл бұрын
@@tg.Sacred Thanks for the reply! I edited my comment with a few more findings & corrections. I'm working on testing the crate armor bonus but I am fairly certain that's how it works. I just collected almost 100 crates on ToE and didn't get a single armor crate though... feelsbadman.jpg
@sirprize8572
3 жыл бұрын
@@tg.Sacred And I just successfully tested it by modifying the crate powerups to give exclusively armor crates. I tested with a weapon that normally kills a rhino in 12 hits, and with the armor powerup it killed in 18. This means it took 33% less damage from the weapon, and thus survived 50% more shots.
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
@@sirprize8572 Thank you for the extra info. Regarding the infantry armor, after so many comparison testing videos I've done, my community already knows that Conscripts have Flak armor. I could have mentioned it again but then I probably should have made a list of all units showing what armor each unit has. Regarding the Structures Armor being wood, I do mention "with a few exceptions". Just wanted to keep it as simple as possible. About the Armor crate it was confusing to me because all sources were mentioning about Armor being multiplied which made no sense. I started digging it too much thinking it might increase the health instead but nope. This is how it all ended in a "theory" that the incoming damage must be divided or something. Lastly, regarding the Terror Drone and Tank Destroyer my point was to make a video as comprehensive as possible. Remember that the video targets casual players and not experienced modders. The video may be quite misleading and slightly inaccurate in some parts but it will help a regular player get the basic idea. If you are willing to help on future projects please, join the discord server since your experience will help in more quality videos.
@VivinJoshua
2 ай бұрын
Excellent guide!
@delandel5496
3 жыл бұрын
If you increase the vitality of all units by 10 times. What a wonderful game it would be :)
@kegancentala3661
3 жыл бұрын
Really good info here. Thanks
@ComradKirich
3 жыл бұрын
The only thing I understood from video that`s everything is quite hard. Well, i ` m going play RA2 and don`t think about armor, but I know it`s important)
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
And I though I made it as comprehensive as possible. xD
@ComradKirich
3 жыл бұрын
@@tg.SacredxD
@0xVENx0
3 жыл бұрын
the waiting has paid off :D
@grenate2255
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks very helpful!
@ramadhanisme7
3 жыл бұрын
Really interesting
@ooo-gc7kq
3 жыл бұрын
Is is very helpful. Thanks.
@sebek28
3 жыл бұрын
Wróciłem z nocnej zmiany i oglądałem Alied mission 7 remastered w twoim wykonaniu. A tu nowy film sprzed kilku minut. Dzień pomyślny będzie :) mam nadzieję że dobrze wam przetłumaczy KZitem. Wybaczcie za mój ojczysty język
@oyunbold9186
3 жыл бұрын
yoo youtube translation actually works
@micheal2bro
3 жыл бұрын
Well great vedio But i still have a question Why prism tower kill conscript in 2 hits While the G.I even the elite one(which should have more health) Still killed with only one hit
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
Warhead Verses. What tg forgot to mention is that Conscripts, like the Commandos, have flak armor instead of none. That's why they can survive a Prism shot. Prism actually deals *twice* as much damage to none than flak and plate. [PrismWarhead] Verses=200%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,50%,50%,50%,200%,100%
@Power_Soon_yaya--9804
3 жыл бұрын
I understand. Because I've been looking inside some part of the game files before watching this video.
@zeyadgabr8682
3 жыл бұрын
A game that came out 20 years ago everyone
@CnCDune
5 ай бұрын
Over 20, if you want to be technical; RA2YR's C&C engine was made for Dune 2, from 1992. So, 30+ years :P
@yousseftawk7898
3 жыл бұрын
Great content very helpful
@DrakoRyuugu
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video
@KILAH4716
3 жыл бұрын
Bruh I know this armor stuff is complicated enough as it is, so I'll let it slide, especially since C&C Dune Mod covered it a little bit in a comment, but prone infantry receive reduces damage dealt as well. I want to know the damage reduction rate of prone infantry, and how effective going prone is against certain weapons.
@stargaze8336
3 жыл бұрын
Then check the code. Different warheads deal different damage values to proned targets. For example, Virus poison does triple dmg vs Proned infantry.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
IIRC in TibSun Orca Bomber's bombs are twice as effective against prone infantry than standing infantry.
@-Raylight
3 жыл бұрын
Just like DOOM, AoE2. Even though they're old games, people always found new things to this day. It's just amazing EA has a great community and fans, shame that they don't really care
@dba6097
3 жыл бұрын
How about damage of Radiation from nukes and desos?
@racer927
3 жыл бұрын
This also explains the odd armor behavior with the amphibious transports. The Allied transport has Light which is why it dies faster to radiation and such but takes more tank shells than the Soviet and Yuri transports.
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Right!
@racer927
2 жыл бұрын
@@tg.Sacred Also, it seems armor types were more categorized in Red Alert 2 with the three groups and three types per group. Tiberian Sun's armor types were more all over the place such as Nod Attack Cycles having Wood armor instead of Light.
@Power_Soon_yaya--9804
3 жыл бұрын
5:45 I'm starting to see some what I don't understand in the video. (such as why It doesn't show number any drop in tesla trooper's health like conscript, 6:00)
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
The video has offered all the details you need. There's no need to show the health drop example twice. Rhino will deal 13 damage to a Tesla Trooper with each hit so you can easily make the calculation.
@KhanWolf95
3 жыл бұрын
Can there be a video covering what garrisonable civilian, player or neutral structures provide the most protection and convenience???
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Sorry what exactly are you asking for?
@KhanWolf95
3 жыл бұрын
@@tg.Sacred like what buildings on maps should i garrison units in that provide the most armor/ unit amount that can garrison it.
@hemandy94
3 жыл бұрын
@@KhanWolf95 Are you referring to garrison able building healths? And max capacity?
@KhanWolf95
3 жыл бұрын
@@hemandy94 yeah an overview of what is offered in game.
@GurgleOneSixSix
3 жыл бұрын
Most of the standard large civ buildings which hold 10 people have a building health of 1000 with steel armor, that's shared across many of them. The Battle Bunker has 600 health. There are some exceptions though, eg the Alamo has 2000 health with concrete rather than steel armor type, and the garrisonable civilian bunker has 2000 health and steel armor
@Iamthedudeman00
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, by the way you know how tank destroyers can do almost no damage to personals, what happens if they had a fire power upgrade? Also what happens if an air craft carrier gets an fire power upgrade? Thanks a lot.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
Tank Destroyers usually only deal a miserable 3 damage to non-tanks and Terror Drone. With Firepower crate that doubles to 6 damage.
@sirprize8572
3 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately an Aircraft Carrier firepower upgrade does not translate to its spawned aircraft. If the hornets themselves managed to be in range when the crate was picked up, however, I do believe they maintain that upgrade even when docking and re-spawning.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
@@sirprize8572 Since promotion of the Hornets is preserved, that makes sense.
@abuleil1117
2 жыл бұрын
@@CnCDune that's a whole 3lre damage let's gooii
@alanliang9538
3 жыл бұрын
they should just make infantries have high chance of dodging tank shell instead of being nearly immune to it
@doggo_woo
3 жыл бұрын
I mean, if you got hit in the face with a tank shell, do you think you would survive?
@J03_M4m4
3 жыл бұрын
@@doggo_woo of course
@abuleil1117
2 жыл бұрын
@@doggo_woo yeah.
@Blox117
2 жыл бұрын
but tank should switch to HE shell
@muhammadyudhi1338
3 жыл бұрын
dude i've got question For splash damage, how much damage taken hit for other unit near target attacked unit? for example, i'm ordered V3 artillery attacking a group of 9 Grizzly tank, and of course V3 projectiles missiles was targeted to Grizzly one in the middle, and for infantry how many splash damage taken by other infantry? and also for building build closed each other how many splash damage it's received?
@GurgleOneSixSix
3 жыл бұрын
This depends on which weapon it is. For V3, the CellSpread is 1 which means the damage can extend to 1 cell away, and PercentAtMax is 0.25, which is used in this formula: M = 1 - (1 - P) × (D / S) where, M is the multiplier to damage. This is the value used to adjust the final damage. P is PercentAtMax S is CellSpread D is the distance between the object and the center of impact, in cells. So for the 8 units around the centre Grizzly tank, it will be 1 - (1 - 0.25) x (1 / 1) = 1 - 0.75 = 0.25. The eight units around will take 25% damage. But other weapons have different CellSpread and PercentAtMax, for example the terrorist bomb has CellSpread of 2 and PercentAtMax of 0.5. You can see all of these values in the Yuris Revenge rulesmd.ini file. Hope this made sense, sorry couldnt make it simpler
@Foxy_5702
3 жыл бұрын
now I learnt one thing only from this vid and that is patriot missiles are op against any missile
@babulapiderazi1924
3 жыл бұрын
finally
@lnanols
3 жыл бұрын
I have a question. Can you tell me the name or file name of the map used for the unit test?
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
It’s oasis of doom. You can find the map in the discord server.
@NguyenThanhGiaHuy
3 жыл бұрын
Test Slave vs All Infantry pls….
@sipriv5365
3 жыл бұрын
Hey, can you make video about secret stolen units in old mental omega verison
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Do you mean this? kzitem.info/news/bejne/qniQvmmhqpZ7qYI
@rushiewashie
3 жыл бұрын
God, coming from modding cnc:zh damn And i thought that game's armour is complex but nope it's more straight forward compared to this and thx for the vid
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
A ZH modder? Interesting. How is damage dealt in SAGE?
@rushiewashie
3 жыл бұрын
@@CnCDune well in zh instead of 'verses' we have 'armorsets' which pretty much work the same and alot of units have tailored made armorsets for them. Unlike verses it also has 'default' which mean if the damgetype used against an armorsets that doesn't have +/- % set for it calculations would fallback and use default (normally 100% of the damage) which pretty mostly avoid what happens to terror drones Disclaimer tho i dont really 'mod' the game persay the one messing with its file, i mostly do map.ini or map mods which are mods the only work on maps that have tht .ini file and have a ALOT of limitations like no new 3D models and no new projectile based weapons and only hit-scan types but thankfully armorsets pretty have no limitations
@GurgleOneSixSix
3 жыл бұрын
@@rushiewashie I think the fallback to 100% damage was causing the bug where Col Burton could knife and instantly destroy aircraft lmao (melee damage type), although this one was fixed in a patch There seems to be a difference in how the two games work - RA2 focuses on damage types (warheads, I think they're called) and defines what percentage it does against each armor type, whereas ZH focuses on armors and defines what resistances the armor has against each damage type. Personally I think the ZH system is way better and more intuitive
@CnCDune
11 ай бұрын
@@rushiewashie You're lucky that it at least defaults to something and is still usable. RA2/YR will just crash if a Verse is missing, and good luck finding that needle in the INI-haystack...
@DescryGames
3 жыл бұрын
Brother it's been a long time since you had played the suffering please play the suffering 1 and 2 again please brother.
@yerr234
3 жыл бұрын
what soundtrack did you use for this video?
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
It's a music available for creators. It's named Tension 2 - Fredrik Ekstrom
@Nobody-yt9gz
3 жыл бұрын
LOL how did u put those together ?? 2:15
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Easy with map editing.
@Ei2995AY
3 жыл бұрын
Conscript, looking at bunch of GI's: _kekw_
@jasohavents
3 жыл бұрын
Damn dude your desktop is pretty thug.
@intelkiller1074
3 жыл бұрын
how much range of osprey plane on destroyer?
@pandaprewmaster325
3 жыл бұрын
I thought the apocalypse tank was tanky because of its armor /: and I thought conscripts had more hp than other infantry because defenses take longer to kill them
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
Conscripts just have better armor.
@pandaprewmaster325
3 жыл бұрын
@@CnCDune sad
@Voicelet
3 жыл бұрын
It's funny to imagine that Allies and Soviet wage war with wooden structures, like kids playing make believe.
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
To be fair, that might from the days of RA1 x)
@bormisha
3 жыл бұрын
There may be a lot of sense in building wooden structures during war: it's faster and cheaper, and it gets the job done. Some buildings do not have to last very long.
@hexianggeng5943
3 жыл бұрын
That's a whole factory built only for $2000 after all
@Blox117
2 жыл бұрын
you mean like how many structures are made of wood?
@rzlnie
3 жыл бұрын
So, are you a russian?
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Greek.
@builder_dahomey
Жыл бұрын
Red alert 2 is secretly an rpg.
@stargaze8336
3 жыл бұрын
Music?
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Tension 2 - Fredrik Ekstrom
@maintoph2541
Жыл бұрын
Born Ready - Phoenix tail
@Reroriro
3 жыл бұрын
Sir, how do you park a kirov?
@CnCDune
3 жыл бұрын
When the Kirov is spawned on map, quickly sell the WF *before* Kirov starts flying off. Then it stays on ground until someone or something moves it. You can also place it on the ground via map editor.
@thomasyang1398
3 жыл бұрын
First
@oxylimit1276
3 жыл бұрын
Bro,long play+tips and trick serial flipped mission request.🤣
@tg.Sacred
3 жыл бұрын
Coming soon!
@cyberneticdex69
3 жыл бұрын
well thing is us army now must wear bras since lgbt is forced in it
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