I have always believed that if Collins had survived he would have found a way to unite Ireland. He was an energetic very intelligent man while Dev was little more than a very clever career politician.
@Dechieftian
Жыл бұрын
I one hundred percent agree with your very sharp and succinct comment.
@pato2200
Жыл бұрын
I believe you are correct. Churchill rated collins very highly and said he was worth a dozen brass hats (generals). He created the SOE modelled on collins' organisation "to do to the germans what collins did to us". Collins said of the treaty, "it is not freedom but the the freedom to obtain freedom". I agree with you, collins would have found a way to get the Republic and unification.
@declan1278
9 ай бұрын
You said my grandfather worked as runner for Michael Collins as he very young but involved in civil war later ended been jailed in Mountjoy on his release he feel out of the truck carrying him home and feel in a dich which was freezing and lost his sight in one eye he drank again the stories he told me so grateful RIP grand dad
@declan1278
9 ай бұрын
Sorry my grandfather never drank again
@BobHerzog1962
8 ай бұрын
I don't think he would have. Simply because the notion that it was on the table is a myth. Churchill is a master at words and note he never explicitly said that he would support reunification. He worded it in a way that it could easily mean symbolic as being united in a common struggle. De Valera (and many Irish politicians who were part of the struggle) knew Churchill quite well. And Churchill had an ugly site when dealing with those under British rule. Churchill was opposed to letting Ireland regain full sovereignty (on the treaty port question). He even forced Collins to use violence and thus make negotiation impossible in the Irish Civil war in order to maintain control. De Valera was also smart enough to remember how well the British remembered their promises post war in wars before. Just ask the Arab Rebellion in WW1 ... I grant that a lot of De Valera's policies in particular economic wise were short sighted and driven by ideology. But him not seeing Churchill's speech as a 100% sure reunification offer was pure political realism.
@joehart7260
8 ай бұрын
A land of comely maidens indeed. He kept Ireland religiously and economically in a backwater for decades.
@markpower9081
8 ай бұрын
I think it's better to compare him to other rulers of his era than to the politics of today. He could have been worse.
@adrianainespena5654
4 ай бұрын
Religiously yes, but then his opponents were no better. Remember the Mother and Child debacle. As for economically, he started industrialization, carrying out the Griffith policies based on List's theories. After all, he unleashed Sean Lemass and allowed him to learn on the job.
@joehart7260
4 ай бұрын
@@adrianainespena5654 My Auntie Nora used to admonish me whenever I criticised De Valera. "You don't know what this country was like before we got De Valera" she would say. I still think Collins would have been a better leader but perhaps she had a point.
@phil2003ashleigh
3 ай бұрын
Let Tuam judge him
@adrianainespena5654
3 ай бұрын
@@markpower9081 It was the era of fascism and dictatorships. He kept Ireland free of those.
@brianbozo2447
9 ай бұрын
Collins was effectively the Irish JFK
@dug8377
7 ай бұрын
I’d say he was more along the lines of a George Washington
@MarkHarrison733
7 ай бұрын
@@dug8377 Collins was like Benedict Arnold.
@MarkHarrison733
7 ай бұрын
Kennedy was a disaster.
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
@@MarkHarrison733 No more nor less than Joe Biden.
@MarkHarrison733
4 ай бұрын
@@stephenwright8824 Collins betrayed Ireland.
@danielofinan5071
Жыл бұрын
I love/hate Dev. He did put his life on the line for irish freedom many times. The man was literally sentenced to death and fought in the easter rising so you can't say he wasn't a true irish patriot. However he was offered the six counties during WW2 which would have been the united Ireland SO many generations of irish men and women died for in exchange for irish aid in defeating the Germans but DeValera stayed neutral and rejected it. He had it right there in his hands. For aid in a war in which, in the end, many irish men would die fighting in anyway. Would have prevented the troubles and so much pain and destruction. He also gave WAY too much power to the Catholic church which had very negative effects on the Irish psyche. I guess most people have complicated feelings about him.
@markpower9081
8 ай бұрын
He was not offered the 6 counties.
@danielofinan5071
8 ай бұрын
@@markpower9081 he was though
@markpower9081
8 ай бұрын
@@danielofinan5071 He wasn't. Malcolm MacDonald merely stated that he thought Ireland's participation in the war would help bring about a United Ireland. It was a just an opinion, and an opinion based on nothing but wishful thinking. He also told the Irish government that the British government would not coerce Northern Ireland into joining a United Ireland. In other words, it wasn't going to happen, and de Valera knew it.
@eireisrising
7 ай бұрын
If he had of taken that offer, éiRe would have been brought into world war 2..? he didn't want that for us, he wanted us to remain neutral... Unlike mr Martin of today..
@pato2200
3 ай бұрын
If ireland had allowed british troops in less than two decades after the black and tans, ireland would have split, gine back to civil war, and resistance to the british. It was not, given ireland at that time, a feasible option. Churchill did offer a united ireland three times in fact, as the western ports were so vital, but it was not a realistic option given the splits in ireland a heavily armed unionist faction in the north which ultimately would not accept it.
@Currabell
9 ай бұрын
He refused to separate the state from the catholic church. An enormous mistake.
@Dechieftian
4 ай бұрын
He like many others in Ireland was incapable of seeing the harm the Catholic Church perpetrated on the people of Ireland. He like the others was brainwashed by religion at an early age.
@phil2003ashleigh
3 ай бұрын
Thousands of dead children would agree if only they had a voice. Total hypocrite who never admonished the same blame on the absent fathers. May he never rest at peace. Traitor and self gratification were his greatest traits.
@Dechieftian
2 ай бұрын
I totally agree with your comment.
@aarondavis8943
2 ай бұрын
De Valera had a habit of choking at the finish line. Collins grasped an opportunity by the throat.
@adrianainespena5654
Жыл бұрын
Ireland is a rarity in newly independent country: it has never known a dictatorship. That was his biggest achievement.
@Ricky_Baldy
Жыл бұрын
The Catholic Church effectively ran a dictatorship and they were invited by DeValera.
@adrianainespena5654
Жыл бұрын
@@Ricky_Baldy The Catholic Church was already there. They did not need to be invited by deValera nor anyone.
@ianc1312
8 ай бұрын
He gave them full license to bully and intimidate
@adrianainespena5654
7 ай бұрын
They already had that. @@ianc1312
@eireisrising
7 ай бұрын
Really. ? Are you living in éiRe now.
@bernardkeating9691
9 ай бұрын
Why would you send a soldier to do a politically job, Dev went to the USA to collect for the ‘cause he returned and gave some of the money to the cause, gave some to his family I.E the Irish Press when the donors learned of this they demanded their money back he almost admitted this near the end of his life commenting that in the fullness of time Collins contributed more to Irelands freedom than he had previously acknowledged 😢😢
@dermototoole1762
Жыл бұрын
Jealousy is a nasty human trait and de Valera was full of jealousy against Michael Collins. He hated and feared the brilliant fighter tactician and all around organiser of men who would go to hell and back for him. Let there be no mistake, champagne glasses were raised in the de Valera household on August 22 1922....if only history had given de Valera his bullet in 16 and Collins would have certainly avoided his assassination. RIP Mick Collins on this the centenary of your death....
@declan1278
7 ай бұрын
Well said
@brymorian
7 ай бұрын
My view be entirely De Valera was the vilest traitor
@declan1278
7 ай бұрын
Well said
@declan1278
7 ай бұрын
@@brymorian so you're
@declan1278
7 ай бұрын
Sorry mis spelt so right what you are saying
@brianmorgan5739
Жыл бұрын
It is a bit ironic that British criticism is still persistent to this day concerning Irish independence and it's leaders is still present. Yet let the World stage pay witness to the oppression and systematic murder by British authorities that was forced upon the Irish in the same manner as a yoke is placed upon the shoulder of draft horses pulling a heavy load uphill. Sure it is easy to villainize Eamon Devilera, Michael Collins, Parnell and Shaw, but. Has your noble British society villanized the likes of Oliver Cromwell or Margret Thatcher and their authoritarian forms of Government? I as the nephew of an IRB Brigade member have no sympathy what so ever for those of RIC or British Military whom were ambushed and killed. For it was the British whom were the invaders and occupiers of Ireland for 750 years.
@declan1278
7 ай бұрын
Like wase you have said the truth
@MarkHarrison733
7 ай бұрын
Modern historians agree Cromwell did nothing wrong in Ireland.
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
@@MarkHarrison733 Modern historians are no less human than historians from any other time. Which means they can be dead wrong. Remember how Himmler's "experts" distorted the truth?
@tommurphy3671
3 ай бұрын
I love what you have said here and how you said it. I agree with you 1 million percent
@antadhg
3 күн бұрын
Dev's biggest problem was that he wasn't staunch enough in his Republicanism
@phil2003ashleigh
3 ай бұрын
TUAM TUAM TUAM TUAM TUAM: There is your ideology Dev. Careerist first, backstabber second, Irishman never. Lion led by a lamb paid the ultimate price.
@stephendevaney7282
23 күн бұрын
I wonder what Michael Collins would make of the Ireland of today.
@colmmeade1824
17 күн бұрын
You've got a good point there
@johnbrendanoneill1029
9 ай бұрын
It wasn't develara made the decision it was the irish people
@christan10
Жыл бұрын
Great heros have same way of thinking..Irish has got such a great hero and our leader subash chandra bose has huge respect on him
@olliephelan
11 ай бұрын
It was standard diplomatic practice to write a letter of condolences. DeValera never did that. He visited the embassy with his minister of external affairs.
@maryheffernan2627
2 ай бұрын
Why did he survive ??
@bunreachtde-jureConstitution.
Жыл бұрын
It was Collins who went to Downing Street...
@Dechieftian
Жыл бұрын
so did DeValera in the Summer of 1921 about four months before Griffith and Collins and the plenopontentiary team that Devalera had selected. DeValera sat as the lone Irish delegate with British PM David Lloyd George who at that time spelled out what could be offered and what would not be considered. I believe that is why he didn't go with Arthur Griffith. He knew what would be offered and he knew he would not be judged in history as the man who accepted 'too little'. He was of course wrong - history will continue to judge him harshly for that and for walking out on the ratification vote when his side lost the vote. That action I believe resulted in the civil war a few months later.
@bunreachtde-jureConstitution.
Жыл бұрын
@@Dechieftian what did de valera give us in 1937. An bunreacht 1937 63article clo gaelach font Constitution. And is the fundamental law of the land today. Regardless of there corruption of it. Article 15.4. 1.The oireachtas shall not enact any law repugnant to this constitution or any provisions thereof. Pursuant to article 52.2 and 63. Yes we haue 63 articles in our constitution. Not the 50 fully incorporated crown one on the shelves. My friend.
@bunreachtde-jureConstitution.
Жыл бұрын
De valera gaue us freedom, if you had a clue what you were talking ABOUT. HOW MANY ARTICLES DO YOU STAND UNDER?...... Now that's a trick question. If you can read. 63 articles, why do the gov hide this from the people... Don't worry pal you sit do your thing, the truth is coming. Soon. Its already all ouer persons like you are still at sea. 😂😂
@patcarolan1
23 күн бұрын
Dev was an agent for the crown who was behind the murder of Collins
@antadhg
3 күн бұрын
LOL
@seamusconnolly9710
2 ай бұрын
De Valera was a turncoat. He served himself.De Valera was a hero of De Valera
@splinterbyrd
5 ай бұрын
He paid an official prime ministerial visit to the German Ambassador to offer on behalf of himself and the Irish People their condolences on the death of Adolf Hitler
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
Something so many idiots mistake for his being a Nazi sympathiser.
@Ellemerob
8 күн бұрын
Not because of any respect for Hitler but for Ireland's neutality and for the respect he had for the German ambassador to Ireland, Hempel. Didn't he do the same for FDR and Churchill?
@splinterbyrd
8 күн бұрын
@@Ellemerob Ireland was already an independent and neutral state; why the need to proclaim it? If he'd wanted to offer his "condolences" to Dr Hempel he could have done so privately, and not publicly and on behalf of the Irish People (who weren't consulted.) Part of being an independent nation and being a responsible nation means being big enough to stand alongside other nations in the face of a common evil. This was just weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz, and he came in for alot of criticism from around the world, especially from America. De Valera's gesture just because the hated English had been at war with the Germans was not the statesmanship of the leader of a strong magnanimous independent nation, but the parochial small-mindedness of a bureaucrat from an unimportant little province. Which Ireland is not 🇮🇪
@Ellemerob
8 күн бұрын
@@splinterbyrd ' ..a common evil..'' You're hilarious. Britain all over the world. France were still defending their empire in Asia 20 years after WW2 finished. Netherlands in Indonesia etc. Belgium in the Congo. Even Poland were robbing parts of Czechoslovakia. etc You explain to me what Germany had done in 1939 that made them worse than these empire building scum countries? Ireland stood with neither. Neutral
@splinterbyrd
8 күн бұрын
@@EllemerobIreland was already a neutral sovereign nation, so why the need to advertise it? If he'd wanted to give his condolences to Dr Hempel he could have done so privately, and not publicly nor in the name of the Irish People (who weren't consulted) This was just weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz and the Holocaust was discovered. De Valera came in for a helluva lot of flak from around the world, especially from America, and didn't make a very good impression. To my knowledge no other neutral nations did the same. Part of being a strong independent sovereign nation is acting like one; which sometimes means standing alongside other strong nations against a common evil, and Hitler was an evil common to all. De Valera's conduct was not that of a strong independent nation, but one which used other people's suffering as a gesture against the hated English. In so doing he showed none of the statesmanship of a world leader, but the petty small-mindedness of a bureaucrat from an insignificant little province. Which Ireland isn't. 🇮🇪
@mrgabagoo580
3 ай бұрын
The claim that reunification was really offered is such an incredible lie that it discredits the entire documentary. The offer was so vague and cryptic as to be completely ridiculous. Dev is in no way guilty for rejecting a bizarre message from that drunkard in London.
@carmelmulroy6459
Жыл бұрын
The British couldn't shoot Dev as he was an American. Dev was a sneak who probably celebrated Collins death. Collins was younger and more popular and Dev was a control freak. He also paid condolences to the Nazis even though lots of Irish people had served on the American side in WWII.
@Dechieftian
Жыл бұрын
well said. I agree, one hundred percent! Ireland would have fared far better had he stayed in America . His idea of an Ireland with freshly saved hay and the laughter of maidens in the fields getting reay to kneel down and say the Rosary. He allowed the Catholic Church to interfere with the business of State and allowed them to influence legislation that they in turn could use to their advantage.
@nickmacdonald9535
9 ай бұрын
Because of de Valera the Catholic Church had so much power that the Republic was almost a theocracy.
@Dechieftian
4 ай бұрын
While it may seem far fetched at first glance .. If one should wonder what Ireland was like in the era of De Valera and his ilk .. look no further than the Islamic Republic of Iran. When rabid religious doctrine is shrouded in public policy and practise you end up with leading government officials like the Ayatollah Khomeini and Eamon De Valera and His Eminence John Charles McQuaid and the Mullahs and Parish Priests. All pretty much the same thing in a different language.
@declanfeeney7004
4 ай бұрын
The catholic church already had deep power in the country. There is much to dislike about De Valera but the Idea that he singlehandedly introduced and then forced Catholicism on Ireland is just pure delusion.
@Dechieftian
2 жыл бұрын
a shame he didn't stay in the US .. He can never be forgiven for walking out of the Dail with his deputies after the vote for the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified by a majority vote. Not good enough for Dev .. oh no .. he knew better .. instrumental in destabilizing the country when it was most vulnerable. instrumental in causing the civil war that resulted in the death of the man that paved the way for independence .. a man that done the heavy lifting in the years that Devalera was dining in the Waldorf Astoria in New York .. 2 years he spent there preening and glad handing and smiling for the cameras.
@dermototoole1762
Жыл бұрын
Well said Brendan Ryan. The biggest historical shame is that de Valera didn't get his bullet in 16 and Collins lived to lead our country into the 20s and beyond. A dictator I would call him. A cute whore he certainly was. RIP the wonderful Mick Collins 100 years on. RIP de Valera, I don't think so....
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
AND messing up relations between the Irish here and those at home for at least a couple of decades. Except that he literally destroyed your country, as an Irish-American, I'm almost glad his Ma sent him back to Bruree.
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
33:48 Opulence is death, and here Churchill proved it.
@PlushyPlay1
Жыл бұрын
Anyone in Ireland who thinks he's a hero forget quick he let the Catholic church do as they pleased it's also hilariously ironic McGuiness saying of de Valera what I say of him today
@sparkyhughes131
2 жыл бұрын
The career politician of his day
@angusyates828
Жыл бұрын
Complex individual.
@leprechaun7667
8 ай бұрын
One thing you can definitely be sure of. Anything from mainstream media sources i wouldnt trust!
@markpower9081
8 ай бұрын
Why trust the non-mainstream media?
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
@@markpower9081 I smell a sycophant of the Stupid Hitler, aka Donald John Trump. That's boilerplate MAGA rhetoric, so it is.
@abacus749
6 күн бұрын
14.18mins You are airbrushing over all the republicans from 1916 that Collins ordered to be assassinated. Collins never even fired a shot in 1916.
@kamilksiazek8019
Жыл бұрын
Great but complex man. He opposed the treaty with British which led to the civil war, that was his only but big mistake.
@Oakeedokee7
Жыл бұрын
De Valera allowed for Jews in Ireland to be sent to concentration camps, and gave condolences to Hitler when he died, in the name of "neutrality". I am Irish myself, and I will never forget the heroes who fought for us, but De Valera did a ton of terrible things which tarnish his legacy
@kamilksiazek8019
Жыл бұрын
@@Oakeedokee7 in The Times of Israel (sic!) I'm reading sth exactly opposite about Jews: "A proposal to admit 100 Jewish orphans from Bergen-Belsen was initially blocked and only proceeded after de Valera’s personal intervention. Perhaps this was the prime minister’s way of atoning for his decision the previous year to visit the German ambassador to offer his condolences on Hitler’s death."
@mx2000
Жыл бұрын
De Valera will forever be infamous for being the only world leader giving condolences to Germany at Hitlers death. This was right after the images of the concentration camps made the news, mind you. His censorship machine spent the whole war downplaying German atrocities to justify his version of neutrality. He also instated harsh punishment for any Irish who fought in the British army against the Nazis.
@markpower9081
8 ай бұрын
@@Oakeedokee7 Irish Jews didn't go to concentration camps - I don't know where you got that from.
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
@@markpower9081 Right. If anything, DeValera offered the Jews in Europe refuge from the Nazis.
@nova77791
2 жыл бұрын
He allowed ego to get in his way. Better had he become a martyr
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
Dev was: *Crazy from Boland's Mill to the day he died.* And I don't buy the crap about him not wanting, ultimately, to become a priest. If he had, it would have been better for all concerned.
@helloschoales
2 жыл бұрын
Repress Ireland for decades with his idea of Ireland!
@adrianainespena5654
Жыл бұрын
And yet it was thanks to him that Sean Lemass became Prime Minister. Lemass was just another terrorist until de Valera took him under his wing.
@Touhou-forever
2 жыл бұрын
I have no respect for Eamon De Valera he only cared about himself and not Ireland he disagreed with Michael Collins's idea of making peace with Britain not to mention he was the one who started Irish Civil War so that's the reason why I have no respect for him.
@declan1278
9 ай бұрын
Well said
@Touhou-forever
9 ай бұрын
@@declan1278 I mean don't get me wrong he did some good things but it is difficult for to recognize those good things because of his ego and arrogance
@internetual7350
6 ай бұрын
He disagreed with Michael Collins' stance on the Treaty that is true but so did such great leaders like Constance Markievicz, the Civil War was a battle between brother and sister, neighbour and co-worker, patriot vs patriot and De Valera was undeniably a man of principle, he was a selfless patriot of Ireland as shown through his open defiance of Britain first during the Civil War and later with his actions during the Second World War where he spared our great nation from the black spectre of Nazism and British imperialism. The two greatest evils to ever befall humanity, and Ireland chose justice and peace.
@freedomunltd
5 ай бұрын
@@internetual7350In which case he should have gone to those negotiations in London himself and not sent Michael Collins there to do the work which Michael himself said, meant ‘signing his own death warrant’. DeValera knew exactly what it meant for Michael, by sending him to London, it’s why he didn’t go there himself. As for DeValera, his complete capitulation to, and absolute deference to the Pope and the Catholic Church’s involvement in Irish life, brought misery to millions of people in Ireland for generations where even dancing and music was regarded as sinful with women regarded as secondclass citizens and the Pope’s dictat, ‘that what God has joined together, let no man put asunder’ causing despair for hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens for decades whilst the violence through corporal punishment, meted out to schoolchildren along with the hidden sexual abuse of these children also, which lasted up to the 1990’s, destroyed the lives of countless children and families. So one regime of repression was exchanged for another.
@pato2200
4 ай бұрын
De Valera did not reject peace with britain but did reject the terms of the treaty collins made, which accepted partition and did not achieve the republic.
@alanocallaghan2883
Жыл бұрын
The treaty with Britain was signed by devalera before Collins even set foot at downing St. Britain's price for home rule was collins head . Devalera the politician could be bargained with but collins the revolutionary could not . Not fact but just an opinion .
@Dechieftian
Жыл бұрын
Interesting opinion .. a bit wild mind you!
@Dechieftian
4 ай бұрын
An opinion you are most entitled to. Pretty wild though!
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
@@Dechieftian Personally I think it's crap.
@phil2003ashleigh
3 ай бұрын
I’d agree too
@damienholden2132
3 ай бұрын
Ðo the mathematics
@Dechieftian
4 ай бұрын
Listening to Terry De Valera ( Son of Eamon De Valera ) recall the 'uncanny' manner in which his father made 'momentous decisions' with extraordinary rapidity can be best summed up in a single word. Only one word is required. Delusional. The harsh reality of the 'dead hand' of De Valera and his cabinet created for so many decades an inept and impotent economy. A time when so many of Ireland''s best and brightest left Ireland never to return. Hardly the work of a man credited in Terry De Valera as endowed with ' A God given gift of leadership' .. such nonsense. De Valera combined with the toxic nature of the Catholic prelates in Ireland .. single handidly ruined the new economy and furture of the new state. I t would take decades for the nation to emerge from his 'leadership' and 'charisma.
@mrgabagoo580
3 ай бұрын
Another lie. As far as I recall the constitution did not recognize a woman's place as in the home but declared that women should not be forced out of the home by the economic necessity to work. It may sound similar, but the reality is that one formulation of words legalizes the oppression of women while the second liberates and empowers women by giving them the freedom to choose work or family. Ireland did not fulfill it's constitutional promise, but the principle was admirable. It is an aberration of modern feminism to force women into the workplace - the reality of traditional feminism and the desire of the majority of women is to be enabled to choose how much time to devote to their children and how much time to devote to work.
@SamSam-wj5nd
7 ай бұрын
He was a bad person same as the rest of them
@joeoconnor5400
Жыл бұрын
This has been edited?
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
Probably. Probably heavily edited.
@brianodwyer4198
Жыл бұрын
Really bad documentary with americams talking saying superficial bs
@stephenwright8824
4 ай бұрын
Were you and I watching the same video? I heard a lot more British accents than American ones. I actually don't remember hearing ANY American accents. The British have, as a race, yet to expunge that part of their character that tells them they have an absolute right to some part of Ireland. That's where the bs you think the few Americans in this video are spouting, comes from.
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