I wish Dave would learn to communicate his feelings and analysis in a more clear and forceful manner. :)
@shimoncrown
Жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@robertjones447
Жыл бұрын
Right? The vagueness and prevarication are killing me! 😅
@dennischiapello3879
Жыл бұрын
Diffident he is not.
@pelodelperro
Жыл бұрын
Right? Can't tell whether "musical guano" is something good or bad...
@johkkarkalis8860
Жыл бұрын
Agreed, graydomn. Equivocation and a non-committal mien have no place in the polemicist's tool box. Dave must work on this.
@theosalvucci8683
Жыл бұрын
Listening to Norrington is equivalent to using a pathologist as your primary care physician. Choosing him to conduct the Symphonie Fantastique, the drug induced paroxysm of a love sick and emotionally immature young genius, is completely ludicrous idea. It's like choosing one of the King's Guard as your dance partner. Thank you for recognizing this cold hearted jerk for what he is. You the man, Hurwitz.
@willsingourd2523
Жыл бұрын
His was the musical equivalent of most "Conceptual Art" - Was 99% gimmick.
@ianson3
Жыл бұрын
I know a conductor who heard Norrington's vibrato-less Mahler 1 with some youth orchestra. His verdict: "Child abuse."
@BambosNeophytou
Жыл бұрын
That's not funny. It's actually inappropriate to share in public.
@alexreik424
Жыл бұрын
@@BambosNeophytou can you explain what you are talking about?
@elagabalus-imperator
Жыл бұрын
So, I've watched this video twice, and I'm still not sure how DH feels about Norrington ... great video!!!
@ppfuchs
Жыл бұрын
His recordings actually got played a lot on local radio stations. This video felt like a cathartic release of having to hear those horrors over the years. You were like the Oracle of Delphi in this video!
@gmroberto1967
Жыл бұрын
I just saw the video and went making some popcorn before pressing "play"... 😀
@davidsilverman1741
Жыл бұрын
My Mad Magazine name for him has always been “Roger Nothington” so I certainly appreciate this video. Whilst listening to the classical station back in the day, anytime a piece was announced followed by “conducted by Roger Norrington” I’d turn that off and listen to something else.
@robertjones447
Жыл бұрын
I do think, however, Dave is off-base with the name calling, labeling Northington as "dreck." It really doesn't quite sink that low. If he were being objective, he would have called it "The Roger Norrington Schlock Edition."
@francoisjoubert6867
Жыл бұрын
I bought the Beethoven piano concerto set because it was “period” - to hear what it was like - many, many moons ago. When I listened to the very fast (5:47) slow movement of the Emperor I thought “This is weird?” and pulled out the Arrau / Davis recording (8:27). It sort of settled my understanding of their approach. There was just no feeling in it. Arrau makes that slow movement like gazing up at the stars while camping. The Tan version is like Bugs Bunny running in the night.
@bbailey7818
Жыл бұрын
Perhaps in retrospect, the remains of EMI would be very happy and relieved to have these misbegotten recordings attributed to Erato. Or Errata.
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
Can you imagine him 'doing' Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture? He would likely have fussed over the cannon to use. Maybe the least fitting: the serenades for strings by Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, and Elgar with Grieg's Holberg Suite.
@lockjiang
Жыл бұрын
seeing the wall of CDs of yours just reminds me of mine. I must ask, does anyone know how to sell one's CD collection before one gets too old to deal with them that they end up in dumpsters and get burned down or disposed of carelessly by uninterested family members who outlive you, or sold to casual non classical music buyers who don't relish them?
@silviofernandez585
Жыл бұрын
EBAY (!)🤗
@bloodgrss
Жыл бұрын
When I started collecting a musical library, I did buy Norrington because it was marketed as 'different'. But, I never really ever liked the performances! Now, I know why...
@graydomn
Жыл бұрын
I think I have one Norrington recording of two Beethoven symphonies. It was enough.
@henryfitzgerald5857
Жыл бұрын
I got the Wagner disc for that reason... and it definitely did sound unique. Then I got Paray's Mercury version of the stuff shortly thereafter and it was like eating real cherries after freeze-dried ones
@capblood3046
Жыл бұрын
@@henryfitzgerald5857 My last one was his Berlioz Fantastique! Lots of interesting original instruments, as Dave has pointed out, but musically it sounded like a demo disc for the sounds they made, not a passionate and artistically thought out symphony.
@anthonycook6213
Жыл бұрын
Exactly; they came in as people were starting CD libraries and were touted as correcting the sins of traditional performance practice.
@qnebra
Жыл бұрын
White scarf, Norrington in title, it means fun video to watch and listen.
@martinbynion1589
Жыл бұрын
Jeez, Dave! When are you going to make clear what you actually think about this music? 🙂
@ahartify
Жыл бұрын
The 'George Santos' of conductors! The problem, to my unprofessional ears anyway, is that Norrington applies a Baroque template to everything he did in terms of phrasing and rhythm. He believes that music should should - must - be clockwork and mechanical, and any kind of 'romanticism' is a kitsch aberration and, what's worse, very un-English. He is aiming for sleek style but there's no style at all - only a military band gone wrong.
@bigg2988
Жыл бұрын
Romanticism un-English? I wonder how Norrington's Elgar then sounds... or did he rather avoid that native luminary altogether in order not to make critics uncomfortable? :)
@iankemp1131
Жыл бұрын
And not even Baroque music should sound clockwork and mechanical. I despair for example at modern recordings of Bach's Brandenburg No. 3 which mainly seem to compete who can play it at most breakneck speed. Whereas a live performance with one instrument per part at a slower tempo with great articulation was enthralling and almost had me dancing in my seat. It brought out Bach's vision superbly.That took the good aspects of "authentic" performance and rejected the bad.
@kostisprotopapas2607
Жыл бұрын
The “historical performance” and “period instruments” movements contributed greatly to the decline of popularity and accessibility of classical movement in the 90’s. There’s no way any young person who heard those tinny, out of tune performances of Mozart and Beethoven- not to mention the works of every talentless contemporary of theirs- would have developed a love for the music.
@DL-rn4ty
Жыл бұрын
The London Musical Industrial Complex LOL!
@badbasset8624
Жыл бұрын
I adored his Beethoven when I first discovered it as it came out. But I was a teenager then and into rebellion. I admire them much less now. As well as the doubtful preformence practices, I think the actual recordings are quite poor. However I heard him conducting live once. Strangely enough it was Elgar's 1st Symphony with the Philharmonia Orchestra. It was superb. At the end of the slow movement there was a long silence before the whole audience audibly exhaled.
@davidbenner6551
Жыл бұрын
That’s good hatin’
@yttrium55
7 ай бұрын
funny 😁
@jeffjazzwraight
Жыл бұрын
Ha ha. Not a fan then? 🤣
@stephenswanson334
Жыл бұрын
True story: I once threw up onto Roger Norrington’s kitchen floor. I was part of a jazz group that had played at a church around the corner from his estate (he held his head in his hands all throughout our set) and for some reason invited us to his home afterwards. I wasn’t going to turn down an invitation to drink wine at Roger Norrington’s home, though I wish I’d handled his beverage offerings better. He made some crack like “Oh, how typical of a jazzer!” I did actually engage him a bit on his vibrato nonsense, but I was young enough at the time that it’s not like he was going to take me seriously (and I had just thrown up on his kitchen floor). And this was before KZitem, where you can just find any video of a 1920s or 1930s orchestra and immediately disprove his unimaginably nonsense that those orchestras did not use vibrato. That said, aside from the vibrato insanity (and his obvious distaste for the music I’d played for him) he was an engaging and gracious host!
@gary100dm
Жыл бұрын
The most spectacular recording of Beethoven 5th was Bernstein and the New York Phil.
@petercates6706
Жыл бұрын
One of Bernstein's best recordings!
@AlanDaNiao
11 ай бұрын
@@gary100dm This may or may not be true. I have no idea. But what on earth has it to do with the engaging story related by @stephenswanson334?
@pmarq32
3 ай бұрын
OMG this made my day. I may have barfed on some musicians floors, but none as notable as Norrington.
@marcusadamson5731
Ай бұрын
You have terrible manners, but what a critic!
@benjamingreenfield9569
Жыл бұрын
George Santos of conductors omg I’m dying that’s amazing. Nancy Argenta did fabulous work with Gardiner on various cantatas and the Magnificat, so she’s actually worth hearing elsewhere.
@linnaeusshecut3959
Жыл бұрын
Let's hope that the George Santos phenomenon lives on in the English lexicon.
@markfarrington5183
Жыл бұрын
Oi, sheesh
@jvnjr
Жыл бұрын
Yep, Dave sliced his way through that which is bologna rather quickly, at first, then he stayed with the topic for about 25 minutes too long. But essentially, Dave set about doing that which he set out about doing, namely to bury Rodger Norrington, together with this box set before someone among the gullible, the still wet-behind-the-ears, naive, or those who are still the inexperienced among classical music connoisseurs and collectors, happens completely by accident to purchased this thing-partly an over-priced brick, another part and expensive doorstop. Here Dave essentially performed that which was a necessary, very needed, and an important public service, sparing us our wallets at the expense of his. Happy listening to everything else, and cheers. .
@sly16
Жыл бұрын
I lost it at "musical guano" 😂 Brilliant review
@henryfitzgerald5857
Жыл бұрын
May favourite was "reeds made out of authentic French swamp creatures"
@samuelheddle
Жыл бұрын
i actually love a lot of HIP and period instrument performance, even stuff on "bad" sounding instruments. what i really oppose, though, is a) the idea that the evolution of performance practice over the centuries represents a "mistake" rather than a continuing tradition of classical performance, and b) the idea that these people tried to set themselves as standing apart from this tradition. they're exactly what they accuse the "old" conductors as being- a way classical performance changed over time to reflect the tastes of performers and audiences. It's sort of a postmodern type of performance, with our sometimes dubious obsession with the concept of "authenticity"
@GG-cu9pg
Жыл бұрын
Good point.
@BenjaminAnderson21
Жыл бұрын
The issue I have with the movement is the concept that music played on anything other than the instruments they were written for is "inauthentic." Sure, maybe Mozart and Beethoven DO sound better on fortepianos (I personally believe they often do) but if that's the case your argument should be just that--we should play Mozart on the fortepiano because it sounds good, not because it's the only "proper" way. Arguments about authenticity should be focused on important musical choices that effect the very nature of a piece (such as tempo), not things like timbre and orchestra size.
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
If it is un-musical it is inauthentic on that issue alone. I can say the same on synthesizer performances (transcription is a big source of repertory) and "period" performance alike: if it is musically suspect it is crap.
@RobertJonesWightpaint
2 ай бұрын
I listen to this recording now and then for sheer pleasure - all the passion that should be in Norrington bubbles over in Dave Hurwitz; the Yiddish words - schande, dreck - so descriptive, appropriate, expressive. I'm no authority on classical music, even though I've listened to it all my life and have a signficant CD collection, but when I heard Norrington's massacre of repertoire I just didn't understand what critics could find to praise in it: it is DULL, ditchwater dull, pharmacological performance - sterile, pickled, petri-dish music.... I could go on, but I wouldn't be able to come near to Dave's evisceration of Mr Norrington. I had some very old shellac records, collected by a great aunt - Tchaikowsky, Liszt, Beethoven, Mozart, Franz von Suppé even.... they became unplayable eventually, more scratch and hiss than music, but all of them sounded better, livelier, more musical, than Norrington - may he rest in peace, and his recordings likewise.
@jamesking7868
Жыл бұрын
It as not just the UK classical music press pushing Norrington: 1989 New york times on Norrington: "He has achieved this prominence partly through the widely recognized excellence of his interpretations, but also by his eager enthusiasm in pushing forward the chronological limits of the movement into familiar 19th-century Romantic repertory. Mr. Norrington isn't playing ‘early music’ any more … but mainstream classical standards in a fresh and enlivening manner … No-one has been more admired in this repertory than Mr. Norrington, who has combined brisk tempos, dramatic accents, interpretive niceties and a lively responsiveness to period timbres into one vibrant package.” and the same paper in 1988 "the performance was impassioned and truly good-humored, all at once. Mr. Norrington got the trumpets to snarl with a nice nasality, and if his Larghetto seemed really too fast, at least with these instruments, it was also breathtaking. In all, a lovely concert, greeted with heartfelt cheers." Bruce Duffie: "The London Classical Players leapt to worldwide fame with Norrington’s dramatic performances of Beethoven’s symphonies on period instruments. The recordings of these works for EMI won prizes in the UK, Belgium, Germany and the United States, and are some of the most sought-after readings of Beethoven Symphonies in our times. "
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
That is true. Stupidity is universal.
@dennischiapello3879
Жыл бұрын
"...interpretive niceties..." Run away! Run away!
@bbailey7818
Жыл бұрын
This sounds familiar. We're any of those quotes from William Malloch? I bought the Emperor Cto with Tan and Norrington and had to pick my jaw off the floor at the sheer awfulness of it. It sounded like a weird parody, reducing a masterpiece to utter insignificance, played on a toy piano.
@CortJohnson
Жыл бұрын
All I remember about Norrington was the huge splash his Beethoven symphonies made. It was very different! Rather exciting as I remember. Haven’t listen to it in years. I still have the set somewhere.
@jensguldalrasmussen6446
Жыл бұрын
@@CortJohnson Only matched in horror by Roy Goodman and his scrappy Hannover Band! 🤢
@dvorakslavenskiples
Жыл бұрын
A long time ago, I wrote in a facebook group about the recording of Smetana's "Ma vlast", in which some members of the group wrote that Norrigton's approach was more authentic than the others, which is absurd (if we keep in mind that there are recordings of Czech conductors who grew up in the same musical tradition as Smetana ). There was also this comment: "all you’re doing is demonstrating is that you like the traditions of how this piece is usually played, not necessarily what Smetana actually wrote. What you call "authenticity“ others might call ”tradition“ or, if one were being unkind, ”laziness.“ I’ve conducted some of this music with Czech orchestras, and they want it to go how it usually goes. That’s what you like, that’s what you want, fine. But at least admit what you want is a recording that conforms to the recorded traditions of the work. Norrington went back to all the sources for this recording, and it’s the first (I believe) that represents anything like the notes the composer actually wrote." - poor guy...
@DavidJohnson-of3vh
Жыл бұрын
Halftime in the locker room at the HIP playoffs - Conductor, "Listen up Hanover Band. Second half is with the London Classical Players. You have five minutes to change uniforms!"
@janetkenny1974
Жыл бұрын
I feel obliged to say that when I was a young singer I understudied Dorabella in 'Cosi fan tutte' in Joan Cross's Phoenix Opera company. Roger Norrington sang the tenor role. His voice was awful, but the musicality and inwardness and phrasing in the tenor aria was exquisite, meditative and unforgettable. Ever since that time I have looked in vain for similarly beautiful phrasing from better tenors, but Roger Norrington's interpretation still leads the pack.
@bigg2988
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, that is new! Probably proof he really has/had a good grasp of vocal numbers, and by a certain extension, the talent to be a good leader of vocal forces. Too bad we are mostly left with his orchestral adventures that EMI was all to willing to proliferate.
@pozsoz
Жыл бұрын
I read "Norrington" in the title, then saw the white scarf on the thumbnail and immediately knew what I was getting myself into.
@samuelheddle
Жыл бұрын
a half hour of bashing a hyped British conductor? now i know what im listening to on my morning walk
@stephenlevine6770
Жыл бұрын
I worked with Norrington....he called the Missal solemnis a series of dances...one of the worst I've ever worked with...
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
Most of us have some unconventional view of a book or movie. In my case I refer to Cabaret as my favorite horror movie because it has all the elements -- freakish characters, a descent into mad reality, and bad things happening to good people. It is done well, and the music works beautifully to that end. If one is to offer an unconventional view than one needs a compelling explanation.
@pandoraefretum
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic ; you spend half an hour, destroying Norrington. Let me tell you you are right, over and over. Vibrato has existed since Corelli, and music should have a warmer & much more accessible sound. I'm glad you have the courage to speak up ... "not a shred of musical distinctiveness"... yes Sir, you nailed it. I hope this trash is erased from the face of the Earth.
@robertjones447
Жыл бұрын
Would I would love to hear is a first rate conductor and orchestra performing on well-maintained school instruments. Likely, after a couple rehearsals, they could deliver a strikingly rich performance. The message would be crystal clear: Instruments will only take you so far. Hard work, intelligence, and passion for the music you're performing will take you the rest of the way.
@jensguldalrasmussen6446
Жыл бұрын
Rather than the white scarf of irredeemable chutzpah and a multicoloured truckload of other scarfs, to really match the outrageous crimes committed to music by said individual more appropriate would be to wear 'the black cap' followed by the verdict: "you will be taken from here to the place from whence you came and there be kept in close confinement [untill the day of execution] .....". The name you were searching for was Robert King (of the King's Consort) who contrary to Norrington is a musician - as was Frans Brüggen, and are W. Christie and Minkowski (the latter when he confines himself to music of the baroque era, that is) and there are others with them within the branch of HIP!
@PhilDarcy-e6d
19 күн бұрын
Hey, get off the fence... lol. Yep. emperor's new clothes. I personally love the sound of vibratoless strings, especially in 17C rep.. however this is a different issue when it becomes the sole focus of performance or supposed merit (oh, sorry .. I forgot ridiculously unmusical tempi). I'm grateful I only had to play for him twice. I suppose marketing is necessary, but I thank you for clarifying the difference between marketing something with integrity and value and ... well..... love your analogy with guano.
@301268bmh
Жыл бұрын
Robert King was the name you were searching for.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Of course. Thank you!
@revivalharpsichord5078
Жыл бұрын
BRAVO! How delightful to have someone finally stick a pin into the over-inflated balloon of the "original instrument" cult and call out those interchangeable-rosters English groups who created what Paul Henry Lang termed the "deadening orthodoxy" of performance practice we have been saddled with for decades. I majored in music history in college and grad school, and never could figure out where the notion--now widely held and asserted--that 18th-century singers didn't have any vibrato (god save me from having to listen to Emma Kirkby--I'd rather spend an evening chewing aluminum foil). It was a wonderful vindication when I had an opportunity to discuss it with Nicholas McGegan, who agreed that there is no basis for that notion either. Thank you!
@PaulBrower-bw4jw
2 ай бұрын
Something so awful succeeding for a time is often a testament to marketing. Ideally the music comes above marketing, but here that rule broke, EMI was forcing these records into the market very regularly, which was good for getting huge volume of sales. Eventually people caught on, and "Borington" recordings quit appearing. They were no longer selling. to buy in. 'Instead of inflicting an 'authentic' Carmen, Nutcracker, La Mer, or Rach Second (concerto or symphony, maybe both!)... it was all over.
@bigfan2710
Жыл бұрын
Wow, you really don't like Norrington! He may not be the greatest of conductors but I find his engagement with audiences a nice touch at the concerts I have attended. Also, he was embarking on HIP with Beethoven and early romantic repertory from the early days. There is something attractive about being first and as you acknoweldge we were thirsty for new sounds in familiar repertoire. Hearing on familiar repertoire on period instruments is revealing of itself. In terms of Beethoven at least I would disagree that his interpretations lacked interest or validity. In Beethoven, his "thing" was tempi. The LCP recorings publish the metronome markings for each movement. I think slow/sluggish tempi Beethoven is now very rare. That said there is room for opinion in music and life.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Fair enough, but he also doesn't follow the metronome markings, as often as not, and they are in any case pretty much irrelevant to the question of "authenticity." Nor was Norrington a pioneer in that regard. And I say this having given a very positive review of his Stuttgart Beethoven cycle.
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
He was pushing HIP where it was inappropriate.
@anthonycook6213
Жыл бұрын
As I have mentioned before, I first came to this channel surprised at the loathing David had for Norrington, since I bought his Beethoven (hook, line, and sinker) in the 1980s and then most of the Schubert cycle. I didn't enjoy, however the Magic Flute nor Ma Vlast, and definitely prefer the fraudulent (Pierne) to the "authentic" (Norrington) when it comes to Symphonie Fantastique. Your talks have really been eye-(and ear)opening. I always enjoyed Trevor Pinnock and Guenter Wand, so I guess there is hope! Thank You! BTW, the second-hand CD shops now have lots of discarded Norrington, and will soon have more!
@anthonycook6213
Жыл бұрын
As a coda: I finally found an EMI Gunter Wand Beethoven's 9th in L.A. today! Froh!
@zdl1965
Жыл бұрын
I hope you did not have to pay for this box-set. If you bought it so that we do not have to, many thanks! We can call you Messiah after this!
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Of course I bought it.
@zdl1965
Жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Whoa! That must be more than 100 bucks down the sinkhole!
@christophertalbot9488
Жыл бұрын
I used to think of him as Roger Snorrington.
@runcis182
Жыл бұрын
What a coincidence. I just was on my binge of Norrington's reviews and talks, and decided to finally listen to some of his recordings. I tried his recording of the symphony I know the best - Brahms 1st symphony of London classic players and well... it sounds just so wrong. I can actually feel how the orchestra is physically forcing themselves to not use vibrato. And the solo violin at the end of 2nd movement sounds like some kind of parody sucking out all the emotion of the piece. Though it seems like with Stuttgart radio symphony he wasn't able to commit such a travesty.
@MahlerHolic1860
Жыл бұрын
The George Santos of conductors! I love it. I remember him conducting an awful Mahler 1 at the Proms and turning arms aloft to the audience at the final timpani thwack. Awful self-indulgent posturing.
@CortJohnson
Жыл бұрын
Can’t suck the vocal chords out of voices! 😂😂 and even the scarlet scarf of shame!🤯🤯🤯. My, my…
@nk-gp1ml
Жыл бұрын
No doubt, Gramophone magazine will be awarding Norrington a(nother?) ‘lifetime achievement’ award in 2023 in response to Dave’s review.
@bigg2988
Жыл бұрын
I seriously brought some chips with me as I prepared to listen to this once and for eternity review of your "favorite" conductor. :))) I cannot believe you did not start out with all 4 scarves on, as a good case could be made for each of them. However, adding the scarlet one at the end was a deft touch, which had me lol'ing. ;D You can't pan Warner too hard, they have this on their shelves, so they will try to press a honest buck out of it, while the notoriety of the man on the cover still lives - just like they are doing with any former releases they own. It is on us to partake or not! What seriously struck me most was how unimaginative the full programming was - even conductors from the 78s era, who left very limited recording legacies and hardly had a lot of choice over what to record, had more varied and adventurous choices, containing at least a couple off-the-beaten path pieces or short bon-bons dear to their heart... While Sir Roger just ploughed through the essential late Classical and Romantic repertoire, in an attempt (it seems) to have further points of comparison by which his perversity... erm, difference... could be measured. That, in turn, makes this collection even more useless than otherwise, as all it contains are works recorded literally thousands of times, better. All in all, although I have heard a couple of the man's records (the Rossini gala included) before and not come off actively offended by them - just feeling it was all kinda bland and joyless... I must modify your statement of "This is the worst ... ... ... ... collection of music you will ever hear" by adding 1 letter: "N-ever". Why try and dig deep for some redeemable stuff - that may not really be there - among the wreck, when there are so many options for our short lifetime?..
@gyulahunyor8267
Жыл бұрын
So it seems we won't get a 10 bests of Norrington ...
@Kyle-ur4mr
Жыл бұрын
Maybe a 10 worst? I’ve been considering becoming an insider and that would probably convince me
@neiltheblaze
Жыл бұрын
Back when Norrington was releasing his Beethoven cycle, I remember reading the reviews in Gramophone and feeling gaslit - because I'd actually heard the disc they were reviewing and thought it was pretty awful. I never bought into the Norrington propaganda, and I'm so happy to see there's at least one critic who didn't buy it either. Thank you! I feel validated.
@ianmartin2491
Жыл бұрын
I recently bought his Bruckner set. Thin, vibrato-free string sound; excessively fast tempi, as though he was anxious to finish and get to the pub. He seems to have no affinity with the composer.
@TheVaughan5
Жыл бұрын
It’s good to hear someone who deplores Norrington as much as I do. I once heard him conduct a Berlioz (one of my favourite composers) overture and have never heard such a travesty. IMO he and his kind came close to destroying classical/romantic music forever.
@jdoc1357b9g
Жыл бұрын
yeah, the way Warner is doing that with the label names is really weird. If you don't want to ever mention EMI, why not just call them the Warner recordings? Why change it to another one of the pre-existing labels under the Warner umbrella (Erato)? I don't get it.
@robertjones447
Жыл бұрын
I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Sir Neville Marriner, whom I have found to conduct the same repertoire brilliantly.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Check the videos and other reviews on ClassicsToday.com.
@robertjones447
Жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you! Watching your reappraisal of Marriner's Haydn symphonies. I'm surprised KZitem has never recommended any of these videos to me before.
@petertimoney3436
Жыл бұрын
A year or so ago I saw a concert on the KZitem channel of the Royal Scottish National Orchestra with Roger Norrington conducting Beethoven's Eroica. I was at work so missed the concert. What I found most odd was him giving a lengthy introductory speech to the audience about the rationale of his method of conducting Beethoven. It felt like explaining the punchline to a joke before you've even told it.
@mrktdd
Жыл бұрын
One year in the 90s Norrigton and his group performed Má Vlast at the traditional opening of Prague Spring festival. Oh dear - not well received - excuse was that something else had come up and they hadn't had time to rehearse. Recording came out later but was actually made before they left for Prague.
@christofhuebner7841
Жыл бұрын
Having had the distinct “pleasure” of having to play under Roger Norrington on several occasions I can say with certainty that he was a nasty SoB. What he lacked in the artistic realm he more than made up for in the “lack of human decency” department.
@alexreik424
Жыл бұрын
displeasure would have sufficed
@robertdandre94101
Жыл бұрын
I had obtained in time the fantastic symphony of berlioz by this conductor ..... the French magazines of the time spoke of "revolution" in terms of interpretation .... I have was very disappointed listening, I thought it sounded weird ...... a romantic overtures disc by the same conductor completed for me this union with this mr norrington
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
As in politics, not all revolutions are good. Transcribing pieces for synthesizer is revolutionary, too.
@pmarq32
3 ай бұрын
"the George Santos of conductors"
@campbellfulton5602
Жыл бұрын
I had the Beethoven symphonies with classic players that I have to confess liked the 5th
@curtisunit
9 күн бұрын
45 cds of musical guano 😂😂😂😂 Poetry
@fabiopaolobarbieri2286
Жыл бұрын
Remind me never to make you mad at me.
@johnsmith-bo8mh
Жыл бұрын
heard norrington's haydn symphonies; brought me to tears...it was so bad, lifeless and truly sad
@hucbald37
Жыл бұрын
Hi Dave, I like that you're using our german word dreck... - Nice video like always by the way.
@aaronrabushka2180
Жыл бұрын
Don't forget that "dreck" is Yiddish as well,
@alfredkornfeld7284
Жыл бұрын
@@aaronrabushka2180 as is Chutzpah. I love his use of Yiddish.
@hucbald37
Жыл бұрын
Yes and even some more words. Daves wording and direct speech is one of the reasons why I like his videos.
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
@@alfredkornfeld7284 Those are words for smart English-speakers whatever their origin.
@micolsen9824
Жыл бұрын
Never bought the Norrington sound. 🤢
@wayneday3116
Жыл бұрын
I'm not a musician and I don't know the first thing about being a music critic, but I find it interesting that the few critics I have read seem to have a favorite conductor that they love to diss. For Dave it's Norrington. Martin Bookspan could not stomach Karajan except for a few EMI Bruckner recordings. Jim Svejda found Harnoncourt, Richter and most of Chailly unlistenable. Other critics love these conductors, so I guess it's all a matter of taste just as I expected. I'm not sharp enough to determine a mediocre performance from a good one....I just know what I like.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
There are many besides Norrington.
@charlescoleman5509
Жыл бұрын
I wish Norrington would do a 'reaction' video to this critique you've made here, David. Whatever it takes to promote this great art form to an audience that knows nothing about it.
@JackJohnsonNY
Жыл бұрын
I remember when that Magic Flute came out, and was delighted to hear the noble, elegant singing of Anthony Rolfe Johnson in that piece. It also had Dawn Upshaw as Pamina. I wish they had been in performances by better conductors. The music was so rushed and thin. The "ach, ich fuhls" sounds completely off in tempo.
@ThaiMusicForFarangs
Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate your work, but this is a gross exaggeration. I am the last one to doubt in the least that Klemperer was a greater conductor than Norrington. But Norrington has his merrits. I remember his first full Beethoven cycle in Stuttgart, I was in all five concerts. He was not presenting a 9th worth discussing. But the 8th was different, new and - worth listening. Quite a few of the other symphonies as well. What I am more critical about is his aggressive rejection of all contemporary music. Last time I heard him was a few years ago in Berlin with a symphony by Martinu - he seemed to plan a full cycle of all symphonies at the time, in my opinion not a very good idea. He is certainly not one of the great conductors of our time. But he has made a certain possitive impact. Saying he is just a fraud, once again, that`s really too much. No, I will not buy this box, there are more important issues. However, just insulting him for more then half an hour, no, I just do not agree.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Fair enough, but those insults are facts. Let's be clear about that. You may not like the way I stated them, but they are true.
@mrmrosullivan
Жыл бұрын
As my introduction to a lot of this music was through Norrington CDs (the hype was in Australia as well), I feel as though you have trodden on my early 20s. But you are right about all of them, and him. I broke out of the delusion about him through his dreadful Beethoven 7, Mozart 39 and Brahms. I could tell he was terrible, even without comparative versions. So NOW, I know he is indeed the George Santos of classical music. Should have stuck to choral music
@jeffreymilarsky3246
Жыл бұрын
ON POINT! An entire recorded era of mediocrity.
@bannan61
Жыл бұрын
So you would recommend it then, Dave?
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
You mean I wasn't clear enough?
@bannan61
Жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide You you pretty noncommittal.😆
@BryanHalo123
Жыл бұрын
I was looking forward to you doing this. Popcorn time.
@CloudyMcCloud00
Жыл бұрын
The Complete "Error" -- all enclosed in one baaaxx. Let's keep it in there! You nailed it, Dave.
@issadad
Жыл бұрын
"Reeds made out of authentic French swamp creatures"? Yikes.
@Klangtraeume
7 ай бұрын
You´re so right! I visited some concerts of Mahler Symphonies. Awful! Music with no feelings. The worst one was his interpretation of Mahlers ninth. This genious music was totaly destroyed of him. And so was his conducting of Sibelius...
@ippolit23
Жыл бұрын
The emperor's new clothes.
@henrygingercat
Жыл бұрын
I will say one, one thing in Norrington's favour - try his live Vaughan Williams 6th with the San Francisco SO on KZitem which is very powerful. Perhaps the fact that RVW wasn't his usual shtick had something to do with it.
@DavesClassicalGuide
Жыл бұрын
Thank the orchestra. He had nothing to do with it.
@henrygingercat
Жыл бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide They certainly went for it.
@kieronjohnson8834
Жыл бұрын
I think David is completely wasted limiting his insights to classical music. Substitute baseball for Roger Norrington and that sport totally makes sense. :-) Seriously, it's so refreshing to hear a commentator who knows what he's talking about. I have zero problems with strong opinions IF they can be supported by FACTS, an understanding of historical or economic or cultural contexts, and a clear analysis of individual motivations and biases. David does all this and more. Bravo. I'm English btw and this talk rings true about British attitudes to the arts in many areas.
@kerkhofp
10 ай бұрын
I am inclined to agree for 100% about your opinion about the Erato box, but have a listen to his Heinrich Schütz recordings on Decca. Can you imagine something more hauntingly beautiful than his Christmas and Ascension Story, as well as the A Capella Matthäus- Passion. Peter Pears and Ian Partridge as the evangelists, with singers as Felicity Palmer, James Bowman, John Shirley-Quirk and the Schütz Choir. Of another world. Divine...
@smijification
9 ай бұрын
Radio 3 aired a performance VW's Pastoral Symphony by Norrington/Stuttgart. It was most odd . . .
@stephenfleschler9682
Жыл бұрын
I agree!!!!! Like Paint Drying-Not Music I've heard terrible live opera performances conducted by Lawrence Foster (could not conduct La Boheme) and some mediocre recordings but I also have a few rather nice recordings of him in concertos and unusual 20th C. concerted works. Norrington-YUK! I'm glad you mentioned so many fine older conductors and four sort of recent conductors, Harnoncourt, Pinnock, Gardiner, Hogwood. Also, one of the all time greatest, Klemperer. I should know, I've heard so many, just in my 46,500 LPs/CDs/78s collection. I don't remember owning a Hogwood recording though.
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
Evidence of the merit of the free-enterprise system in the career of Boring-ton's effort: when the money ran out, so did the recording. If a record label could have made money on a disc of Carl Nielsen or Richard Strauss, then he would have done it.
@OLIVCHEN77
Жыл бұрын
Ich würde nicht in allem zustimmen-aber weitgehend hat er recht. Diese sektenartige "Historic Playing" nonsense zu kritisieren, war überfällig. Danke
@giveall9695
Жыл бұрын
The same problem I have with Andre Rieu. He just kills classical music to me. Does beautiful music look like a kitsch.
@thiinkerca
Жыл бұрын
My own experience with norrington is the beethoven in the late 80s with the london classical players. Its fast , souless and has the gaze of roger feeling good he followed the metronome. Is it music ? Its an opportunity for norrington to experiment on our ears. 😢
@jvnjr
Жыл бұрын
Dave I agree with you that the best place, and that which most assuredly is the best thing for this particular lorington box set is it's a quick burial, the sooner the better. But your box set my possibly make it better, far more effective doorstop to protect one of the doors in your house from swaying back and forth than my brick. About almost 30 years ago, I have The misfortune with wasting money purchasing some allegedly featured BMG classical music compact disc recording performances. Inadvertently I picked up Norrington's recording of Mozart's Don Giovanni, then a three compact disc set, done alternately in the respective Prague and Vienna versions. The method by which this three compact discs it recording was achieved was arranged so that either Norrington or the recording company which I believe is EMI, chose to do this was to make very long compact disc tracks, some of this exceeding being a half an hour in length; some of which had to be bypassed in the track programming process-listening to One track while bypassing some others in order for one to successfully listen one's way, and with successfully wading one's through each one of these respective recorded, allegedly concert versions. Programming my way through that was a nightmare. Even then I realized at that time, now over 30 years ago, that I had purchased that which was a veritable dog in the manger among the west of otherwise decent Mozart Don Giovanni Opera performances, and that this guy, Roger Norrington, was going nowhere with this sort of music conducting, fast. Back when I first Iistened my way through both the respective Prague and the Vienna versions of Don Giovanni I successfully got through it but once, finding that experience almost being completely unbearable-I haven't even picked up the disk box set ever since, because of the release of far superior performances, in which the quality there became no contest. The Don Giovanni brick, which, incidentally makes a rather decent indoor doorstop, was released at a time back before release of the Phillips' bicentennial commemorative Complete Mozart Edition, back in 1991, which I had both the opportunity as well as the Good Fortune with having acquired it, with that Don Giovanni performance being conducted, now regrettably by the now late Sir Colin Davis, which spared the Don any further embarrassment in hell with such mediocre concert length performances of Don Giovanni coming from the likes of, and being spared any further humiliation or desecration coming from such as the likes of a Norrington.. even John Eliot Gardiner execute serve better Don Giovanni than Norrington. Personally, I really fail to see how I can really say anyting good regarding a Norrington performance I've just about pretty much everything. The Hanover band, for example, while playing it's way throughout an entire Franz Schubert complete symphonies cycle under the baton of a Roy Goodman...? One would scarcely tell that it was the same Orchestra, ensemble, or whatever the case may be, being directed by an entirely different orchestral conductor. Cheers, and happy listening to everything else.
@heidilehwalder6216
11 ай бұрын
Could not agree more!!! The most horrid.Brahms ever...He is clueless!!!
@CH3CH2OCH2CH3net
8 ай бұрын
"The George Santos of conductors"! ROFLMAO!
@brucknerian9664
Жыл бұрын
I have his Beethoven symphony cycle on period instruments. Have only played a section of the first symphony; and haven't heard anything from that cycle since. Thanks for explaining why.
@AL-rb2yl
Жыл бұрын
Norrington is the only conductor I have ever refused to work with, again after experiencing the worst Missa Solemnis of all time in London in the early nineties. Norrington wanted it (like everything else) fast and light throughout, nio vibrato of course, and merely laughed when I pointed out the clue in the title, a message from Beethoven if ever there was one. A musical gadfly and an utter charlatan in my view.
@fred6904
Жыл бұрын
This talk has now made its way into the top 90 in 24 days!! Wow, what a rocket !!
@willsingourd2523
Жыл бұрын
🙄The Donald TRUMPet of classical music!
@paulbrower
Жыл бұрын
Donald Trump is too intellectually-lazy to get involved with classical music. It's not political on my part. I can tell you about some dimwit relatives who were apolitical and have short attention spans.
@ianpunter4486
10 ай бұрын
Donald Norrington , Roger Trump....blame the gullible electorate!
@morrigambist
5 ай бұрын
Don't despair, there is professional help for those with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
@falesch
Жыл бұрын
"...reeds made out of authentic swamp creatures." :-))
@unclesteve4333
Жыл бұрын
Gee, I thought I had a Norrington Erato release. Now I learn it was an illusion.
@martinrichard237
Жыл бұрын
But I guess there is a less worst Norrington recordings.
@bendingcaesar65
Жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for this. 😆
@murraylow4523
Жыл бұрын
Why? I love Dave’s reviews but this is frankly at his worst. And there’s an aura of bullying about it. There are no homogenous “British critics” by the way
@bendingcaesar65
Жыл бұрын
@@murraylow4523 Because I largely agree with this. Norrington took a gimmick and turned it into a career. Only problem is, his gimmick is unmusical and not rooted in real history. And the fact that so many critics licked his ass is a case of the Emperor having no clothes.
@murraylow4523
Жыл бұрын
@@bendingcaesar65 He’s hardly an emperor. Also he is alive and I just find some of the commentary here cruel. Also, to reduce him to a “gimmick” is unfair, he may not have been one of the best “hip” people but he made some rather good recordings in the day, even if they have been surpassed by others.
@bendingcaesar65
Жыл бұрын
@@murraylow4523 That's fine if you think he made some good recordings. We are all entitled to our opinions. As for "cruel," seriously, I'm sure the man can handle criticism. He is a performer, after all. He is not from the snowflake generation.
@nyquist5190
Жыл бұрын
@@murraylow4523 I agree. This "review" certainly was not Mr. Hurwitz's finest hour, Maybe it is in the logic of the internet and KZitem in general: to get attention and views the topics get more and more clickbaity and the views and putdowns more extreme. Because it is what Mr. Hurwitz's audience seems to want. And the audience of course has smelled the blood as can be seen in the comments section.
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