The answer to "which endurance bike should I buy" has always been, and seemingly continues to be, the Giant Defy. No gimmicks, relatively reasonably priced, comfortable through geometry alone (well, and Giant's approach to seatposts) and actually pretty snappy to ride. Giant just don't have the same brand caché as some others for some reason. Also, I very much like the sound of a "gran fondue". 😂
@s1alker564
11 ай бұрын
I ride for fitness and the Defy is perfect for that. I'm not racing crits or doing really high speed descents down steep mountain passes where a race bike will shine.
@thegearboxman
11 ай бұрын
I've got a Giant Defy, and I thought it was a good 'comfortable' long distance bike until I built a Ridley Noah. Even though the Ridley is essentially a 'race' bike I can ride it for longer than the Defy before the ass and hand numbness sets in. Despite it feeling super stiff it must have some compliance in the right places, and the buzz through the bars is much less than the Defy. As a bonus, the Ridley looks superb compared to the desperately ugly Defy with that massive down tube. I hardly ever ride the Defy these days.
@LaurentiusTriarius
11 ай бұрын
@@thegearboxman Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... We can talk about helmets to open up the gates of hell if you want? 😂
@kevinrichardson5387
10 ай бұрын
@@thegearboxman I owned a 2022 Defy and I get where Mapdec is coming from when he called Giant as a brand the M&S underpants of the cycling world.
@graemeross1998
8 күн бұрын
😂😂😂 sounds cheezy
@nmanfield
11 ай бұрын
As a resident of Switzerland - im an absolute legend of the 'Grand Fondue's' - seriously , I m lucky enough to be able to chop and change my bikes, so have a Teamachine (s), road machine , pinarello k8-s ( that's quite a rare bike and probably more on the lines of you idea of a real endurance bike) - saying that , I felt there was room for an Endurace which is now on order - like the idea of having something very anodyne if the feeling suits me. I do regular routes and record on Strava so interested to see how this compares
@sccxvelo
11 ай бұрын
Why I prefer CX bikes. Still racy easy to turn and react, yet most can do long days. Durable light frames. Wider tires are easy to use that can rougher roads/some trails. Now days might lose the widest but thoes are best for certain situations anyways. The only drawback for years till recently was canti's horrible braking in many situations off the cx race course. Now days not a problem with disc. Find a CX bike that takes more than UCI race tire limits of 33mm-35mm, which CX frames did andstill do, as their the so called fast/race gravel frames anyways but just with different name than CX frame. Crux, plus so many more former high end cx bikes now called gravel.
@BenSietze
11 ай бұрын
For me Time nailed it with the ADHX. Currently running with 32mm road tires and it’s the most comfortable road bike i’ve ever ridden. Bit heavy with 1 kilo more than my 20 yo alu road bike, but it’s still faster despite the extra weight. Perfect do-it-all bike as far as I’m concerned. Not a competitive cyclist other than trying to beat myself, so i’ve got no need for the fastest and most aero bike out there. Wouldn’t trade it for anything, regardless of price. Done only short 2 hour rides so far, but I’m sure a full day in the saddle won’t be an issue. I have the XL/58cm. If I have to be really picky, with 1.93m I may have gone with a slightly larger frame if there would have been one.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Perfect. Glad you love it. The ADHX Geo does work well in XL.
@timhall7771
11 ай бұрын
"car park appeal"... I recall you getting me to ride an ADHX around your car park! (It was great, of course...)
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
You are welcome to go a bit further on it one day.
@BurgerTime7441
11 ай бұрын
Hey Volvos are nice cars. In terms of the TCR and Defy, i should have bought a Defy because I use a really high saddle height but comparatively short reach, thus the longer/higher head tube on the Defy makes sense for me. (I use a size small TCR with the seatpost all the way up at maximum extension, so if I use no spacers the bars are REALLY low compared to the saddle. I'm fully flexible but I don't need them *that* low. That said, I didn't check other aspects of the Defy frame, like whether the steerer angle is different, if it had longer chainstays, etc. The stiffness and handling of the TCR are nice and I definitely don't want a noticeably flexy bike
@Robutube1
11 ай бұрын
Some dangerous car comparisons there Paul - BMWs and Range Rovers? Not perceived as the most cyclist friendly brands 😂. I think you're right about us older riders being steered towards 'endurance geometry' and videos like this help us understand what we really want which, as you point out, isn't always a Trek Domane (other, similar bikes are available). Full disclosure - I'm grey and pot-bellied and I've got a Ribble CGR SL, sold to me a couple of years ago when I was a babe-in-the-woods as a rider.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
It seems very easy to get stereotyped
@FGIRAFFE
11 ай бұрын
Yup, a vendor absolutely wanted to sell me a domane but then i rebelled and I said, do you what it is that i said, i told him what i really wanted! Wow! Yup since then i wow on my bike. I love it. I love to wow and i'm very good at it. That said your présentation of dull bikes was vey interesting. I learned about this untuned race bike to make you feel just as if it was the real thing but for the elders. Very interesting! Thanks again.
@rangersmith4652
11 ай бұрын
I'm graying, balding, and not as svelte as I'd like though not quite pot-bellied. I still find my 2000 Allez Pro to be a very nice ride. I've recently acquired a 2008 Kestrel Talon that's potentially even better once I get it switched from tri bars to drops. But neither is as nice to ride as my 2019 Battaglin San Luca, the magic carpet of fast bikes.
@Robutube1
11 ай бұрын
@@rangersmith4652 I think that's the point that Paul is trying to make - don't buy the bike they want to sell you, buy the one that suits you, hence your Alley Pro. Can I also place on record that I exaggerated when I said I had a pot belly?😂
@rangersmith4652
11 ай бұрын
@@Robutube1 Yes. There are many sizes of pots. Mine's more of a small skillet, indicative of how too many of my meals are prepared.
@ciprian7
11 ай бұрын
This is very interesting and very popular topic now a days , i have tried every type of bike in existence and have to say at the end of the day one has so so many choices finding the perfect bike is pretty simple IF could try few and find what works best for you but that is less and less of a possibility, who will loan you a bike for a proper ride and give you a choice to buy it or not at the end? when you think all bikes use same components, wheels, accessories the frame becomes the most important piece and one a buyer must chose carefully.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
So right. With so many bike now bought unseen from the web, it is hard to get the frame right.
@DangerAmbrose
11 ай бұрын
I ride an endurance bike because I cycle in a city. I need a more upright posture so I can see the traffic around me.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Perfect for flat bars.
@lastfm4477
11 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec too few hand positions.
@DangerAmbrose
11 ай бұрын
@@MapdecWhat's with the handlebar gatekeeping? If I want to ride a bike like an overweight middle aged man why should I be restricted to flat bars?
@gc641
11 ай бұрын
Anyone that has a Cervelo aspero with both gravel and road tires? Love to hear it
@robertwrightphoto
11 ай бұрын
Maybe if you can get over an 80-90mm stem and 25-35mm of spacers most of the current race bikes can fit anybody- and with 32mm tires the comfort is there. trick is to find a bike that looks decent with that amount of spacer, some do some don't. Remember when you are riding the bike you cant see the spacers:)
@11robotics
11 ай бұрын
With my rather high inseam for my height (89 cm for 182 cm), I already need to do exactly that (90 mm stem, +8 degrees positive angle, 27 mm of spacers underneath) on a frame with a stack/reach ratio of almost 1.5, using short reach and shallow drop handlebars. On a "race" geometry frameset I would need at least 50 mm of spacers, if not more, which is already a big NO when riding carbon steerer forks. Mass-produced bike frames don't cater the needs of "freaks" with abnormally long legs and short torsoes, let alone those with a poor lower back flexibility. And although "endurance" road bikes and even gravel bikes are way more appropriate for the average, non-competitive road cyclist, outliers like me still need to push the boundaries of stem/spacer/handlebar configurations. Or go custom, which is what I am planning to do in a few years' time when I get bored of my current titanium frameset.
@jawallison
11 ай бұрын
Great video, and a topic which i am currently entangled as i consider a new bike purchase, can i get you take on the geometry of the Basso Astra?
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
We did a vid on the Basso
@sanderverblaauw5963
11 ай бұрын
Where would you put the Orbea Orca? Similar to the Look?
@Dpace111
Ай бұрын
I dont agree with talking people out of buying bikes that might actually fit them because they're "dull" 🤦
@Mapdec
Ай бұрын
Would you agree with making the correct bike for purpose fit someone with some help from a few select components and some mobility training ?
@Dpace111
Ай бұрын
@@Mapdec I appreciate the thought, however I believe the purpose of any road bike is to optimally fit the rider so they have the confidence/comfort to ride is as often as possible. I don't think the majority of riders need optimum aero and agility gains offered by race geometry bikes. The key of a race bike is in its name, you shouldn't have to complete mobility training or spend more cash in order to avoid a painful experience.
@Mapdec
Ай бұрын
@@Dpace111 there is nothing confidence inspiring about a short reach and a tall stack. Its like riding a Land Rover discovery.
@Ruudje896
11 ай бұрын
Hi Paul, I know your view on endurance bikes differs from mine as you prefer the long straight motorway runs, but I can't see the Canyon Endurace as being dull. In fact it is a fairly light and nimble bike which I've been riding for five years now both on the flat and in the mountains. Must confess I chose a smaller size than recommended by Canyon as the larger one looked a fence. Don't mind the comparison to a Volvo, anything better than an suv. I bought the bike because it is very similar to a road race bike and at the time was one of the few which fitted larger tires. Would go for a racy type of gravel bike like an Open UP or a 3T if I were to buy a new bike today
@ketle369
8 ай бұрын
The geometry difference between the ultimate and endurance is minimal. The endurance is the model of endurance bikes that’s closest to race bikes. I love my Canyon Endurance.
@valmorell
11 ай бұрын
Whatever, it's just brilliant to have all these options. Any one of these bikes will take you out of yourself and relieve the stress of daily life. They just each do so in a slightly different way...
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Amen to that.
@barriobarranco
11 ай бұрын
With a decent stack and lesser reach the Domane would still be a racy position for my long legs/short body... Not all blokes are long body/armed apes with wee legs....
@icequake2000
11 ай бұрын
I have a Domane and a Emonda as fast as each other. The Domane does not have to be boring. A few upgrades and the bike can feel quite lively for a Volvo.
@veganpotterthevegan
11 ай бұрын
Good enough for Cancellara who stopped riding the Madone when the Domane came out.
@LaurentiusTriarius
11 ай бұрын
I had a V70R, not bad for a Volvo... Since I had it for free I used a 14" impulso as a city and touring bike for awhile 2016 to 2018. As a trial bike it's sh*t but it also survived that part. Gave it to a coworker who painted it orange with a rattle can...
@kidsafe
11 ай бұрын
My Domane RSL has a 1.35:1 stack:reach ratio and 51mm trail. It’s anything but boring.
@kevinrichardson5387
10 ай бұрын
@@kidsafe but that's the elite pro race version of the bike not the models generally found in high street cycle shops.
@sanynava
7 ай бұрын
I think you missed the point in this video.... instead of focusing on the advantages and inclusiveness of endurance bike you proceeded to bash these bikes in general...and no ... This might he hard for you to believe... but there are perfectly fit people that want an endurance bike...not everyone gets boxed into buying one... for some its perfectly exciting to ride these bikes in comfort and enjoy the journey... matter of fact the endurance bike is what most people require...who needs a "race" bike if you arent racing... you lost a couple of points with this video...
@Mapdec
7 ай бұрын
I think you missed the point. Most ‘endurance’ bikes should be called ‘relaxed fit’. A true endurance bike has the purpose of long hours of endurance riding and has the geometry to suit the task.
@michaeloneill5824
3 ай бұрын
I agree with David. I own a Giant Defy Adv Pro 0 and it’s a fantastic bike. Super fast and super comfortable. It’s a perfect bike for me
@rangersmith4652
11 ай бұрын
Not long ago, at age 61, I got back to riding after a ten-year span of riding only a handful of times. At that time I had a full-on race bike and a flat-bar hybrid, both aluminum and both over 20 years old. The race bike was the far more comfortable of the two. Since then, I've bought an "endurance" bike, with a bit slacker, geometry, a shorter reach, and a higher stack. It's comfortable and fast, but not twitchy like the aluminum race bike. It has become my primary ride. I guess that makes sense given the car analogies here, since I've been driving estates (Toyota, BMW, Audi, Subaru) since I my mid twenties, and since my reason to ride is to go further at a good speed rather than faster for a short distance.
@bluesthemoose
11 ай бұрын
Interesting, but the video playing in the background is so distracting that I had to stop watching before the end.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Noted.
@bluesthemoose
11 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec still great content though 😅
@christopherdonaldson8707
11 ай бұрын
Can't wait for my next Gran Fondu🧀
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Every Ride needs cheese
@DragonRoller77
11 ай бұрын
@@MapdecI had almost zeroed in on the ADHX or ADHX45 - only to find they do it do fenders! 😞
@jamesmckenzie3532
11 ай бұрын
Sometimes you have to look for a more relaxed geometry and to embrace it as comfortable riding may be faster. This is why some folks are embracing gravel vice road. Also, you should never buy a bike without a full on bike fit.
@inthemix
4 ай бұрын
I am so glad you made the Volvo vs bmw comparison. It told me everything I needed to know…
@austienbryandemesa5841
11 ай бұрын
one problem with modern endurance bikes is the tubing profile. comfort and weight is compromised with aero shapes and disc brakes. to attain better comfort they try to fit wider 30c+ tires but it will add weight and reduce that energetic feel. 2012-2017 endurance bikes are the pinnacle of light endurance bikes with comfort-focused tubing with zero regard for aero. rim brakes and semi-internal cables with clearance for 28-30mm which is sufficient, they don't need gimmicks because the cylindrical main tubes and thin seatstays strictly developed for vertical compliance and lateral stiffness are just stronger and more comfy for all day riding, it's physics. also if you're in a group ride aero doesn't matter that much
@11robotics
11 ай бұрын
100% valid points. Also, if you're not racing, aero doesn't matter anyway. Sure you'll get where you're going a bit slower, but who cares about that when they're not racing? If you're into endurance riding, you want to enjoy pain-free day-long rides, and you're mostly likely not giving a rat's ass about those 3.7W saved at 40 km/h thanks to full cable integration or those other 12.5W saved at 40 km/h thanks to wind tunnel tested aero tubing and whatnot. It's all about how far and how comfortably can you ride that bike, and ideally for the least amount of money too. 2017-2018 was the peak of the cycling industry as a whole anyway, since then it's only been pushing solutions searching for problems. Cable integration, wireless/electronic everything, tubeless, obsession with aerodynamics, they all create at least as many problems as they claim to solve, and most of those problems don't really exist anyway.
@stephenmorris6202
11 ай бұрын
I think it is important to be honest about what you want out of a bike. But often you wont know until you have ridden quite a lot and tried several bikes. Nice and thought provoking.
@andypendred8973
11 ай бұрын
'Inspired by David Arthur' there's a sure fire way to lose a shed load of viewers 😏🤣
@SingularityFM
11 ай бұрын
Yes. Yes. Yes. This video matches exactly my experience buying a new bike 2 months ago. I went into the store wanting "the most comfortable endurance bike." Because of all the reviews I thought I was going to get a Cannondale Synapse. However, after test-riding it, my feeling was "meh" and all the fun of riding a road bike felt almost completely gone. Then I tried Cervelo Caledonia, which was also very comfortable but a bit more "fun" to ride. Finally, however, I settled down on a BMC Roadmachine and discovered I didn't really want "the most comfortable bike" but, instead, what I wanted was the best ratio of comfort and fun like good position, nimble handling, a feeling of direct engagement with the road etc. Now I've had my BMC Roadmachine for 2 months and absolutely love it. And that bike is at the most aggressive end of the so-called "endurance bikes."
@LosihoTTT
11 ай бұрын
Don't be too hard on David. It could be GCN, where their tech, product & presenter bike videos are nothing more than blatant advertising for their channel sponsors.
@timdixo
11 ай бұрын
We should look to an endurance bikes with wider tyre clearance and a NON integrated stem to allow an simple,broad range of fit adjustment.
@nickyburnell
11 ай бұрын
63. 100kg. Fit. ALL my aches sorted by going lower and racier. Old school geometry, larger fame (steel). Those, "endurance " bikes ride like Raleigh Choppers
@soapowejazz
11 ай бұрын
In the end it depends on what you want to do with it. 200km might be a rather short distance . Most people I see around sit on their bikes horribly, mainly because they are too long. If Ueli Steck could climb the Eiger north face in light boots and no rope it does not mean we all can either. The same goes for bikes. Everyone has their own preferences though, so they should get what they like. But they should also know that fit is important, probably more than the quicker steering or 27 grams less weight
@michaelknibb4460
11 ай бұрын
And he died 😢
@hockysa
2 күн бұрын
I got the Canyon Endurace and what you said about looking at physiology is spot on. I thought the more relaxed geometry was what I needed but now riding slammed on my Endurace, what I really needed was a size down on my Merida rather than being more upright.
@joekawasaki
11 ай бұрын
I'm 50 years old and not exactly in race shape but don't want to give up & just cruise. So I just bought the new Supersix Evo! It has the higher stack, room for 32mm tires, and an oddly (for me) slack fork angle, but still feels racey & responsive! Coming from a 10 year old Madone, it's amazingly relaxed and comfortable!
@darrinschwarz7446
11 ай бұрын
At 48, I bought a Canyon Ultimate rim brake setup. Currently running conti ultra sport tires measuring just under 30 mm. Yes you can fit larger than 28's on ultegra R8000. It's a little low in the drops but I'm still somewhat flexible at 49. I just like the feel of a race bike. My Ti Lemond Tete de Course cracked at the BB couple years ago and wanted a pure road bike. If I want to do gravel I'll use my Giant Toughroad (highly under rated bicycle).
@hcw199
11 ай бұрын
The difference between an endurance bike and a TCR is f*** all... Lets be serious
@REMODA92
9 ай бұрын
I own the latest trek domane and the latest TCR & the difference is substantive. The domane is a super comfy mile muncher & doubles up also as a gravel bike with 38mm tyres when I take it out in fire trails. Whereas The TCR is far more responsive & agile bike which is the bike I ride when smashing climbs & long descents. Two totally different bikes.
@mike_f
11 ай бұрын
Interesting take on analogous cars. My brother (66) rides a '20 Domane and I (59) ride a '23 Roadmachine. I find the Domane to be somewhat dead and sluggish but he's fitted it up with a brooks b17 and can just go all day on it and find bliss. I find the Roadmachine still gives me the response to pedal input I desire as well as no gimmicky frame couplers. A little seatpost flex and wider tires feels like luxury to me! But yeah, it definitely wants to go straight compared to my more race geometry bike. But the cool part is now two long-in-the-tooth brothers can each ride longer and more comfortably then if we stubbornly stuck to racing bikes. I've made peace with it may come at some avg speed and cornering agility.
@LukeRichardson1981
11 ай бұрын
I bought a custom titanium frame this year to build up a road bike, and I based the geometry on the Cannondale Synapse since that seemed to be a well regarded endurance bike. And it's been great. It feels fast and nimble (despite being at 9+kg all in not particularly light), but at the same time is incredibly comfortable - I've ridden two 12+ hour rides on it this year (294km and 351km) and it's performed remarkably well, with no discomfort at all even after all those hours in the saddle.
@11robotics
11 ай бұрын
I also do the same sort of rides (a few of them every year anyway) and that's my gameplan as well for my next bike. Custom built titanium or stainless steel frameset, copying the geometry of what was by far the best fitting frame I've ever had, a steel Holdsworth Brevet. It will be a rim brake frameset (another reason to go custom, as by then nobody will mass-produce decent rim brake framesets regardless of their geometry) and I'll make sure it fits actual 30c tyres with standard reach brake calipers, which is something easily done if the frame design is done right. Not that I ride anything other than 27-28mm tyres nowadays, but it's good to know I could go a bit higher if need be.
@renegadeflyer2
11 ай бұрын
Depends on the rider fit. Long or short back influences the how the riders preference.
@marcdaniels9079
5 ай бұрын
Best comment. I am 1.8m with short body and long legs and arms
@nationsnumber1chump
11 ай бұрын
I need an endurance bike solely because the roads keep getting worse.
@daniels.2720
11 ай бұрын
Ha! Same reason my gravel bike is now ridden with 90% road set-up. Good luck
@stevoc123
11 ай бұрын
Interesting. I ride a Caledonia 5 and a S3. They have the same stack and reach, so the Caledonia is a pretty aggressive fit for something “soft”. Other than on super smooth roads I’d take the Caledonia 90% of the time as it does everything so well.
@user-cu7cn1km7i
11 ай бұрын
The stack geometry according to Cervelo’s website is very different for the S5 and the Caledonia 5. Can you please clarify what you’re talking about?
@stevoc123
11 ай бұрын
I said S3 @@user-cu7cn1km7i
@BennyOcean
11 ай бұрын
Any thoughts on the Caledonia vs their new Soloist?
@stevoc123
11 ай бұрын
The soloist feels unnecessary harsh in comparison to the Caledonia 5, but it does really give anything extra for the fatigue. With an integrated front end in sure the 5 is as, of not more aero if that matters to you. The 5 seatpost give so much more compliance with the same setback, which is nice for shitty roads. @@BennyOcean
@chrisaldred6030
Ай бұрын
Add me to the list of endurance bike owners. I bought an Orro Gold evo 105 via bike to work, then didn't ride for 9 months due to knee surgery. I've got fit, flexible and strong, and within 2 months of riding I've hit the limits of a badly fitting flexible endurance bike. It does not like corners, climbs ok, feels unstable at speed, already looking to trade up.
@spokedonwrenching
11 ай бұрын
Endurance is a term from before the dawn of road disc brakes. Rim calipers prevented bigger tires. Today it is akin to all road. Geo can vary but tire clearance is most valuable. If you can’t fit 35mm rubber you need to redesign your frame. Race bikes are still stuck in the aero game. Endurance tends to avoid that stuff.
@darinsteele7091
11 ай бұрын
well, a comfortable bike is a more fun bike.
@madyogi6164
2 ай бұрын
Time would be my choice. For that classic look mostly, though I would use it as BMW, not the Rover. 2nd pick - Look.
@joegiro4433
11 ай бұрын
I’m an 90/10 road:gravel rider with a budget for one bike. I find myself wrestling between an aggressive gravel bike which can perform on the road and one of these all road types which might be compromised on gravel. Ah the deliberations of an impoverished cyclist!
@bluedagger46
11 ай бұрын
Get an all road and slap on a redshift stem and maybe a carbon flex seatpost
@joegiro4433
11 ай бұрын
It’s less about compliance and more about control on the proper gravel. The road bike is running 23mm tyres that refuse to perish so any clearance north of 30mm is going to feel like a magic carpet 😂
@schoebelski6602
11 ай бұрын
Same thoughts here. ....but I think I will try to have 2 dedicated bikes to my disposal, even with shrinking budget ...I rather look for a secondhand rimbrake proper carbon frame roadbike...while for Offroad Gravel a cheaper aluminium frame (but dedicated for Offroady) will do just fine ....2 bikes better than 1 😁👍
@SwazersC
4 ай бұрын
If everyone just bought a Gravel bike then the world would be a happier place. :)
@grahambird4135
11 ай бұрын
For me super expensive bikes way out of my pocket but you don’t have to pay a fortune for a good comfortable endurance bike I have a Giant Contend AR 3 it’s brilliant love riding it and a modest £850 in sale.
@Onigure
11 ай бұрын
I like my domanes position for commuting with a backpack 😅. Also I use it when I go to our ride dates with my girlfriend... I bring ALL the munchies with somewhat bearable back pressure.
@miketumelty8183
11 ай бұрын
Get to know your reach, head tube height, seat tube height, and get a bike that fits with those measurements in mind….could be ‘race’ or ‘endurance’…it doesn’t really matter!
@sandgroper1970
11 ай бұрын
Look I have a 2016 Trek Domane, which is classified as an endurance bike. Whilst this is an enjoyable bike to ride, and comfortable. I just find it shall we say to comfortable. So if I get the funds together for a newer bike, I would go for a more aero / race bike. Add some gel cork bar tape to the carbon bars, it will give some comfort in the hands.
@knutstitan
11 ай бұрын
My gravel/allroad bike is long and slack. I actually feel like it's too long. In terms of feeling powerful, my hardtail is the bike that feels like that, seems to put me more forward and " over the cranks" . I guess I should measure it a figure out what gives that feeling...
@lordalfa600
11 ай бұрын
I ride the tween, Colnago C59 in 42S. Supposed to be endurance but it can be racy. I had the Colnago CX-1 in 45S before, that is a crit machine, extremely sharp handling with a shorter wheelbase. Surprisingly the 42S on the C59 is closer to the 45S in the CX-1, that is why I chose 42S. The C59 is not as sharp in handling compared to the CX-1 but it is not a slouch.
@stevenaaus
11 ай бұрын
Haha.. Get a volvo :). And the carpark effect is so real buying a second hand bike - if seller has nice smooth hotmix outside the door.
@trevekneebone369
11 ай бұрын
I'm 51, ride an endurance bike and drive a Volvo. I guess I'm half dead 🤷♂️
@toddmcdonough
11 ай бұрын
Its almost as if the designers of 80's steel race bikes with horizontal rear dropouts and height adjustable stems knew what they were doing.
@kidShibuya
11 ай бұрын
Meh. This is all splitting hairs. I can jump on any race bike and it feels like a boat if I have been riding my minivelo which in terms of agility runs rings around absolutely anything out there. And OMG off traffic lights its painful waiting for guys on race bikes to get up to speed. You get used to whatever you ride and I found when touring on my Grail CF that I could be passed by club riders on their race bikes only to have to slow not to hit them going down mountains. I think the point I am making is that there is no right bike or a bike most people should be riding. And I don't think there is a most fun either, as for any metric apart from top speed my minivelo is going to win that argument. You just need the right bike for you and what you ride. But beyond that your bike needs to make you want to go riding, that is the most important bit. Just getting out there.
@rejean2744
11 ай бұрын
With the lousy weather coming to New England soon my miles will be cut, so the best thing I can do is heed your advice and get into the gym more.
@frankmoran167
11 ай бұрын
Hopefully those bikes are more reliable than the BMW and Range Rover!
@ljanmi187
3 ай бұрын
Hey Paul! What are your thoughts on new Basso Astra geometry? It has super high stack and short reach, more aggressive angles. Mainly comparing it to Look 765 optimum 2, since i'm trying to decide which frame to go for ultimate comfort :)
@Mapdec
2 ай бұрын
I guess that depends on if you find high and short comfortable. Although this fit might alive hip flexors it also loads weight onto your bum and can add tension to shoulders. Not to mention loosing glute efficiency.
@marcdaniels9079
5 ай бұрын
A lot of us oldies (I am 63) have had enough crashes to know that descending in the drops in a pale imitation of Tom Pidcock is near the bottom of our list of wants. Similarly can’t agree that endurance bikes necessarily flex when climbing. I had a Specialized Roubaix Expert for years and while it wasn’t light or aero it didn’t flex excessively even with Zertz inserts. You are criticising a market segment for being designed with specific goals and not excelling in all. Like criticising a 2 Ton X5 for not being nimble to drive. Claiming that the Look with its excessive reach and slammed stem is going to provide a better experience and a stronger more powerful ride is just crazy. Slammed bars and 150mm stems are for Pros and wannabes; most normal people cannot get the most from these designs due to not having a daily massage and time to achieve optimum flexibility. Calling the Canyon a Volvo is a bit silly really. Continuing the car analogy when I was young and stupid I ruined a perfectly good Golf GTi with a sports exhaust, big wheels and low suspension. I hated driving it for more than 15 mins but it looked cool Thankfully some stole it and torched it. I bought a “boring” BMW 320i which I drove for over 130k miles every one of which was a pleasure. By the way I don’t have a pot belly and my core strength is plenty good and my bike fitter was amazed at my flexibility and I still want a comfortableEndurance bike for my regular riding which is max 100km in a single ride.
@Mapdec
5 ай бұрын
Weird. The look is set up how I want it. You can have it as high as you want. Descending on the drops is the easiest and safest way to control your bike descents. Not doing so is bit like driving in the fast lane with just one finger resting on your steering wheel. I don’t think age has anything to do with it. Endurance bikes are for endurance rides. Long days, rough roads and tired bodies. These upright, short and flexy bikes can just be called what they are. Comfort bikes. Maybe even best suited to flat bars.
@chrisshave7129
11 ай бұрын
The reason I ride an endurance bike is because I've done too many fondues 😉
@jamiefarrell6496
5 ай бұрын
Glad to have stumbled across this video in the back catalogue…am getting a bit underwhelmed with being told by reviewers and YT channels that I “should” ride an endurance bike because it’s comfortable. Or it’s what I “need”. Being pushed toward Endurace/Defy/Fray/Domane all seems a bit like being told I’m not worthy of having a racy bike because I’m north of 40, and/or don’t have a World Tour FTP (or flexibility). It’s great that these options exist, but what I need and what I want are sometimes two different things and - to continue the car metaphor - maybe I want to strut around in a 2seater sports car from time to time!
@Mapdec
5 ай бұрын
Hell yeah. I’m out in Mallorca right now having a blast on a pro tour race bike. It’s breaking me a bit, but it’s sooooo much fun I don’t care.
@prashanthkaustubh
Ай бұрын
Hey what are the options for endurance bikes like the Look you showed… I am interested in this category and any suggestions would be appreciated
@Mapdec
Ай бұрын
The one that springs to mind is the BMC road machine
@RAP4EVERMRC96
4 ай бұрын
What a volvo hater xD Never knew volvos are hated that much. I actually always liked them since a kid. Especially in Scandinavia with their massive offorad headlights on the look sick
@Mapdec
4 ай бұрын
Not hate, but you defo can’t call them exciting
@scottwatson7844
11 ай бұрын
I’m actually tempted by the new Defy as it’s geo has gone closer to that of a TCR just not as low. My main gripe other than the eye watering price of these modern bikes is the 32 mm tyres. Are very really as fast as 28mm ?
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Yes. Faster. Especially when you factor in less braking for corners, holding speed on flats.
@BennyHubba
11 ай бұрын
Spot on commentary based on my personal experience
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
🙏
@carl90210
11 ай бұрын
The Canyon Endurace is the perfect endurance bike 👍 Nobody apart from a racer should be riding the racing bikes and just having wider tyres won’t help.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Race bikes are fun though.
@marcdaniels9079
5 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec James Dean loved his Porsche Speedster tooo as you like a car analogy
@alexdi1367
3 ай бұрын
Here's a video topic: race bike geometry is stupid. If you look at TDF photos from 40 years ago, the saddles are mostly level with the bars. With race bikes today, it's not unusual to see four or five inches of drop. They can do this because the head tubes are super short at every size. Literally just 2" of stack height difference over the entire size range (which could represent 8" in leg length.) Anyone with proportionally long legs and average flexibility is excluded from the entire class. You like race bikes because you're the opposite: average height, short legs, long torso. You fit without any physical gymnastics. A lot of us are stuck with "Volvo" bikes for lack of any mainstream alternative.
@Mapdec
3 ай бұрын
I see what you’re saying. Back in the 80s the drop really came from the handlebars and Levers. They were a long way round the curve and it was a very aggressive position to ride the hoods or drops. The saddles were also further back so hip angles were still pretty extreme. Today we are positioned further forwards and we ride the hoods a lot lot more.
@alexdi1367
3 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec, if hoods are the new drops, what are the drops supposed to be? Most riders of modern race bikes I see have buckets of spacers below the stem. We're even seeing "riser" road bars. Were there ever an indication that the geometry has jumped the shark, fitting a riser bar as standard equipment is it. Mountain bikes have the same stupid low-stack approach in the larger sizes. The fork on my 130mm XL trail bike has 240mm of steerer (and a +7D 60mm stem, and a 25mm riser bar), which requires something like 8cm of spacers above the head tube. And that *still* results in almost two inches of saddle-bar drop. On a trail bike!
@adamc2579
11 ай бұрын
Jeez it’s so damn hard. Been trying to decide for nearly 3 years now. Bike fitter says you need an endurance geometry, but the bikes are a bit uninspiring or now getting pointless gimmicks. I had actually pretty much decided on an ADHX after watching the Mapdec videos, coz they are a work of art. But now this new description has put me off 🙄😂. I don’t care about gravel. Really I wanna avoid these mass production brands, but at the end of day options are actually quite limited these days. Saying all this, I’m certain anything will feel gold over my old Focus.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
If a fitter says you ‘need’ an endurance bike. I would say FU and go get some help with your mobility. Then go back and try again.
@lastfm4477
11 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec Please don't assume the situation. Some of use have spinal conditions (and multiple surgeries) to try to fit a bike around. This forced me to go from my small TCR w/17k miles on it to a med Defy (w/midget stem) to get enough stack. Still looking for a replacement for my Stevens Super Prestige CX bike.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
@@lastfm4477 I’m sure that in cases like yours where you have already exhausted surgery and years of physio that you can understand my point and it limitations. Traumatic injuries leaving someone permanently disabled at whatever level obviously requires special equipment. Just neglecting joint and muscle health to the point someone can’t bend to reach handlebars should be a call to adjust their fitness priorities a bit.
@mocac6088
11 ай бұрын
Thanks. I've been looking to change from my 2013 Giant defy. It's good but not really exciting. I tried a Canyon Endurace and again it was good but I didn't feel it was exciting. I also tried a Canyon Ultimate. I loved it on the climbs and descents but rough roads felt harsh. I guess I am looking at the car equivilent of a GT / cruiser. I also want to try BMC Roadmachine / Teammachine and Ridley Fenix. It's just trying to find them in stock for a decent test ride and not just around a car park.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Did you try the Ultimate with wider tyres at lower pressure?
@mocac6088
11 ай бұрын
Unfortunately not as swapping tyres wasn't possible at the time. Maybe a revisit needed. Thank you.@@Mapdec
@chris_gb_
11 ай бұрын
I don't buy into the idea of you're old / low fitness / ill health so get an endurance bike. The question of which bike to get is moot for me because I will likely never be able to get a new bike again, but I still like to watch the videos and hope that one day my situation will improve, and always what I want is a race bike that's fun. I have at least three, and almost certainly more chronic pain conditions (it's not actually possible to confirm with tests, so all diagnosis is best guess.) Pain issues are including my lower, mid and upper back and there are times when pain is so bad I am barely able to bend. Even so, I've spent a huge amount of time on the gym, Pilates and doing fitness classes trying to mitigate my condition and my flexibility is now extremely good compared to anyone. My core strength isn't ideal yet, I've been doing what I can to improve but it's impossible to be consistent, but that is my primary focus now. I'm hardly alone in this either, two of the fitness instructors I've worked with have their own chronic conditions, yet they are immensely strong and very flexible. And as I write this comment I'm also thinking about some of the older people in my gym and classes, in their 70s, 80s and in one case 90s, most of them lifting as comfortably and heavy as young people, and going to hard classes 3-4 times per week. Despite my issues I ride my flat bar hybrid regularly, and my main frustration is I often want to get much lower and longer when I feel relatively okay. When I do get low the main limitation is hyperextension of the neck when I need to look further down the road, that can get painful fast, so I will be working on neck strengthening soon I hope, and then I want to fit the 135 mm adjustable stem I have, after that maybe I can convert it to a drop bar bike.. My dream bike would probably be something like an all new Time Scylon (the current one dates back to 2016?) and honestly I don't think I would care if I could only ride for 30 - 90 minutes at a time as long as it's exciting. I'd rather get more range and speed from a motor and have the 'endurance' + extra miles that way. I see a couple of bikes like the new Wilier Filante with the Mahle X20 motor, and that very discreet TQ mid mount motor and think we're almost there with making the electric assist just disappear into the background. News reports say Toyota will launch solid state battery cars in 2026, so maybe it won't be that long before that tech makes its' way into bike as well and we'll have decent range from e-race bikes, but still have classic looks and lines we want. This turned into a long waffly reply, but bottom line is get the bike that you want to ride, work on strength and flexibility if you want to reduce the number of spacers under your stem.
@alvarorivera9
11 ай бұрын
Where do you think the Basso Venta sits in this category?
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
In the Defy category.
@philipbickerstaff7064
3 ай бұрын
I've been riding for 40 odd years. I just ride a bike. Now Pinarell Prince. It's a bike that fits and is compfy. To be honest I wouldn't know the difference between a race and endurance geometry.It must be only tiny degrees.
@shred3005
3 ай бұрын
I’m actually at a total loss as to why anyone thinks the current crop of Giant road bikes looks any good. I spend a lot of time riding with different groups with people on all sorts of bike brands and it’s the Giants that really look the most underwhelming when up beside almost any other brand. And that’s being kind. Sorry if I’ve hurt your feelings Giant fanbois…
@tombola4046
11 ай бұрын
David Arthur will say anything that the cycling industry want him to say! Ask Hambini 😬😬
@dominickregan2766
4 ай бұрын
solution is go buy a super expensive Time bike , the frameset costs the same as Giant defy Canyon, ready to roll. Buy a BMW / Range rover and Time bike, u be fine. I think David A makes great videos and is very considered in his opinions, his channel is targeted to broader rider set, not just specialists and more elite riders
@SonnyDarvishzadeh
11 ай бұрын
My first bike was all-road Scott Speedster 10 (alu., 2020), bought a new Van Rysel EDR 105 (Carbon, 2022) and while I like the stiffness or power delivery of the new one, I want my first bike back for long rides. It had larger tire clearance and didn't make me tired so fast.
@universe-juice
11 ай бұрын
I have a domane. And its like an armchair with wheels. I love it but now that i have a proper race bike (felt AR) the trek has been relegated to my getting groceries bike
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
I feel this is a familiar story. How’s the leg?
@universe-juice
11 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec look forward to your vids. Your my favorite show. Have you considered doing a podcast? Anyway, leg is LUMPY! Thanks for asking. Will be 100% in a couple of months i think. A little smarter maybe, and quite a bit poorer for sure 😉
@stibra101
11 ай бұрын
Super light, stiff, fast and great handling bikes. That is why I come back to road bikes instead of riding MTB. Most of new bikes are so boring to ride, even race machines.
@byc1013
9 ай бұрын
some of us don't like doing a 4 to 5 hour ride on a Sunday club run though and that is why I choose a race bike as my road bike. I want something I can go fast on doing a quick 40 mile ride and go home. Don't want to sit in the saddle all day and so I'd rather pick the TCR or even the TCX as my road bike and not bother if a Defy.
@grahambell9831
11 ай бұрын
Good morning, Team Mapdec 👋. Really insightful video with actual bikes together with clear descriptions for each genre. It's frustrating for cyclists as these lines blur and grey somewhat with marketing "words & details" for many of the top globally recognised brands. Thanks for the clarity: it's definitely food for thought.
@tomjay666
8 ай бұрын
would you ride a motogp bike or drive a f1 car for fun on the streets with your level of fitness ? my way to compare actual road race bikes and average joes..
@markrskinner
11 ай бұрын
At age 59 I'm thinking my Addict RC is too sporty these days. My 12 year old Synapse and 5 year old Genesis Datum are back in favour.
@MarkArthur
11 ай бұрын
That look geometry seems to be similar to what canyon did with the new grail. Longer wheelbase but slacking the head angle but maintaining a short chainstay. I'm actually considering that for my next all road. I'm mostly do ultra endurance (200-1200) and I've owned a giant propel and a cervelo Soloist. Yes they are exciting bikes but they are so stiff that even with tubeless comfort adjusted tire, I can feel the stiffness translating into fatigue after 300+ kms. So I believe in that context David is right, but thanks for putting more perspective to endurance Bikes. BTW I currently use BMC Road machine X for ultras. I used to have the Caledonia but I find it a tad bit stiff vs the roadmachine.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Nice. The Look 765 and the Road Machine are very similar as I showed. Great long distance bikes.
@godwindracing6056
5 ай бұрын
Nothing wrong with Volvo if you were one of those who used to watch them during the BTCC’s supertouring era
@kehlew0160
11 ай бұрын
Funnily enough, I find my aggressive racing bike as comfortable for long (80kms for me) rides as my endurance or gravel bike. Looks like Im a mug!
@sabamacx
11 ай бұрын
One other issue is that an XS bike will ride remarkably different to an XL bike, even if the family of bike is supposed to be the same. And even between brands, the difference between an XL Defy and XL Roadmachine is much more different than the difference between an XS Defy and XS Roadmachine. Thus my knowledge and experience as a 192cm rider doesn't translate to yours if you're 170cm, say.
@userdjee834
11 ай бұрын
I'm 1.91 and don't know whether to go with an L or an XL Canyon Grail or Ultimate? Is XL too long for me, if you can help?
@sabamacx
11 ай бұрын
@@userdjee834 depends on many things, chiefly of which is your inseam length. I'm all torso and short legs so at 192cm I fit best on an XL with 0mm offset seatpost.
@userdjee834
11 ай бұрын
@@sabamacx Thanks so much. No, I'm average, perhaps slightly longer legs and arms than average, inseam 90-91cm. I think I'm going to go with an XL Canyon
@TheGabriel959
11 ай бұрын
@@userdjee834 If you are in between sizes perhaps you need to think of going for a different brand.
@_J.F_
11 ай бұрын
I admit to not knowing a lot about road bikes but as I am getting more and more into riding on roads instead of trails/MTB I have started to look for a road bike, and that is where the nightmare begins. Race, gravel, cross, endurance, fitness, all-round, seems to be some of the choices, and then in different sub-models with slightly different geometry, build materials, and not least design. Then comes all the components and you end up with an humongous equation with too many unknowns and your budget as the only known factor. I suppose it is great to be spoilt for choice but as a novice without a network of experienced riders or mechanics to give advice, and potentially departing with several many thousand GBP, it can be quite difficult and even daunting to narrow down the search for one particular bike that is, hopefully anyway, just the right bike for you.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
I hope this helped a bit. MTB is a bit easier. You tend to only worry about travel and head angle. Road bikes really do depend on geometry a lot more.
@_J.F_
11 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec The more I learn the more I realise that I know nothing.
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
@@_J.F_ everyday is a school day
@kevinrichardson5387
9 ай бұрын
Start with a good bike fit. It will cost you but it will also give you the geometry you need - then it's a case of matching those figures to bikes.
@jonesythesuperhero3345
Ай бұрын
Grand fondu? Sounds tasty.
@Mapdec
Ай бұрын
i like cheese
@petersouthernboy6327
7 ай бұрын
For me, an endurance bike needs to be able to accommodate the Continental 5000 AS TR in 35mm.
@11robotics
11 ай бұрын
yeah in spite of your general conclusion that anybody needing a stack/reach ratio over 1.5 (which is what endurance bikes offer) should hit the gym, I'll much rather ride a bike that you disapprove of
@sayno4137
11 ай бұрын
48yo ride a Domane SL6. Few upgrades from standard obviously but its best money I've evwr spent. Few KOMs and Cups plus 100s of PBs.
@karelvandervelden8819
11 ай бұрын
Just find the bike thats fits your style of riding and capabilities. I have relative long legs thus need plenty of stack-height. Race bikes were/are designed for 20 year old competetive riders. Most people are faster on non-racebikes (endurance geometry) for longer rides.
@s1alker564
11 ай бұрын
The average person who walks into say a Trek store is 35-60 yrs old, probably carries a couple of extra pounds and sits at a desk all day. The salesperson is probably not going to set them up on a Madone with high mod carbon. An alloy endurance bike with 105 is more than enough bike for someone unless they get really serious about competing.
@juulbrie
11 ай бұрын
67 here and I just like fast bikes :)
@Mapdec
11 ай бұрын
Hell yeah!
@garysladek9110
11 ай бұрын
Look for me.
@sydvyt2
9 ай бұрын
A bit confused by the comparison. Defy is compared to Canyon whilst the geometry of Defy is more aggressive than the one of the Look. From reading/watching the reviews for the new Defy got the impression that it's really racy bike, but now I'm not that certain anymore 😕
@Mapdec
9 ай бұрын
It is. The look is slack, the defy and the canyon are generally just longer and taller race bikes.
@Mapdec
9 ай бұрын
Longer as in wheelbase, not reach.
@sydvyt2
9 ай бұрын
Thanks a lot for the clarification! Just not entirely convinced, as the Look 765 has a bit slacker head angle, however, it's considerably heavier than the defy and a bit less aggressive geometry. thanks anyway!@@Mapdec
@Mapdec
9 ай бұрын
@@sydvyt2 huh? Aggressive would usually be defined as low and steep. I don’t know where you’re getting the weights from, but I doubt there is more than 100g in it.
@sydvyt2
9 ай бұрын
@@Mapdec difference is almost 200g (frame + fork), and for the total Look is almost 1kg heavier when compared within similar size and price range
@diegoeleazar9154
11 ай бұрын
I want something like Dodge Durango SRT. What bike would you recommend?
@eamonncoady9823
9 ай бұрын
The bike industry is getting no more out of me. The bikes I have will see me out.
@lovenottheworld5723
11 ай бұрын
Getting beaten up on a long ride on a racing bike has more to do with the road surface than with the riding position, in my opinion.
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