Hypotheticals have literally taken facts out of most sports debates and it’s sad
@Manitscrazy
Жыл бұрын
It's so annoying
@smoothsavage2870
Жыл бұрын
Yea, but people also use facts without context, so what's really the difference?
@Madmax_sports
Жыл бұрын
Facts
@adrianprince7266
Жыл бұрын
Best comment ever right here.
@Manitscrazy
Жыл бұрын
@@smoothsavage2870 you playing make believe that's the difference
@Hard31337
Жыл бұрын
Both MJ and Pippen benefited and complimented each other. Both made things easier for the other.
@nbagoats4819
10 ай бұрын
The question isn't about winning. Learn to read. MJ was MJ with or without Scottie. His game did not change. He just got better at what he did. He just needed some help. Scottie however came in averaging single digits riding the bench and its obvious that MJ's influence made his game better. Not the other way around. Scottie would not have been the same PLAYER without MJ.
@GOATZELWARDBANDWAGON.
5 ай бұрын
@nbagoats4819 He can have influence but the end of the day pippen is the reason pippen got better. He had to decide to put the work in and he did. Otherwise every player would've taken the leap scottie did
@ASmallProduction
Жыл бұрын
Shaq was nasty for this one. The Pippen/Jordan thing was because Jordan worked with Pippen to raise his game. Shaq didn't do that for Kobe. That's the difference
@gsusdayz3598
Жыл бұрын
Facts Kobe proved he could win Back to Back without Shaq. Shaq didn’t win shit before Kobe and he had good players. The one time shaq won a Championship was with Dwade as the main guy. Dudes straight hating on Kobe saying he would be Carmelo Anthony without shaq. Completely disregards that Kobe was Elite on defense and Kobe defense came into play when it matters most late in games.
@SnoGo902
Жыл бұрын
@@gsusdayz3598 stop it
@MineShackle
Жыл бұрын
Ticket: disregards the championships Also Ticket: he couldn’t make it out the second round
@Mindag13
Жыл бұрын
Because he wasn’t the guy when he won the championships
@Ssjiskkidjj
Жыл бұрын
He was supposed to make it out the second round, I love how they didn’t mention that horrible late call in Game 5 w 2 seconds left. Top 3 MVP candidate in that 1994 season. Averaging 22, 9, 6, and 3 steals per game on 49% from the field. Don’t let these MJ meatriders belittle him, Scottie was that guy. MJ was 1-9 in playoffs before Scottie got to Chicago.
@Ghost-rb6cw
Жыл бұрын
🤣😂🤣😂
@Ghost-rb6cw
Жыл бұрын
@@Ssjiskkidjj facts.
@Thanosdidtherighthing
Жыл бұрын
@@Ssjiskkidjj 🤔 Scottie Pippen joined a 50 Wins Bulls team and a Blazers team that was 2nd in the Western conference…… MJ joined a 27 win Bulls team and a 19 win Wizards team…. Clearly MJ had less to work with.
@dkthagreat5519
Жыл бұрын
“What was kobe before shaq?” bro was a highschool student what is he talking about 😂😂😂😂
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
THANK YOU 😊
@Kalinbuggs
7 ай бұрын
Also Kobe was 17 in training camp and played the whole season as an 18 year old
@Thesportsobserver2738
17 күн бұрын
That's the thing a high school basketball player showed Shaq a veteran how to win championships end of story.
@coloneldusty4476
16 күн бұрын
@@Kalinbuggshe sat the damn bench
@Kalinbuggs
15 күн бұрын
@@coloneldusty4476 yet he was still playing clutch time in the playoffs. Even with his coach saying I’m not playing a HS kid. In his second year he was 3rd in points off the bench with 2 less points than Eddie jones who played 10 more mins. Stop acting like Kobe was on the bench for his skill and not him being 18 behind an all star and a coach who didn’t want to play him.
@Jaygroova
Жыл бұрын
In 94 without MJ he led the team in points rebounds assist and steals and had the highest FG percentage on the team he was the all star MVP and finished 3rd in MVP I think he would've still been a top 50 all time player and a Hall of famer
@johnsepulvedacruz6428
Жыл бұрын
Not really, withought those 6 chips he's not a 50 player
@Ssjiskkidjj
Жыл бұрын
Thank you ! These mfs disrespecting Scottie like he wasn’t an MVP candidate and didn’t lead his team to Game 7 of ECF against the knicks. (Should’ve won if the refs didn’t make a terrible call with 2.1 seconds left in game 5)
@Ssjiskkidjj
Жыл бұрын
Eastern Conference Semifinals*
@Jaygroova
Жыл бұрын
@@Ssjiskkidjj ppl forget MJ never had a team that was 500 or better before Scottie got there
@Jaygroova
Жыл бұрын
@@johnsepulvedacruz6428 if Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley are top 50 Scottie would've been on too without the rings
@ajw5691
Жыл бұрын
Pippen deserves a lot of credit for his play when Michael Jordan retired the first time. It's rarely mentioned how the Cavaliers weren't at full strength in the first round, yet people constantly bring up a questionable call in the second round that probably cost the Bulls. Also, Michael Jordan helped elevate the Bulls by going through rebuilding periods. When Pippen took over, the young players had developed and the chemistry was there. Not to mention they added solid players who fit the triangle such as Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Toni Kukoc. Kukoc was better than what his numbers showed. The following season the Bulls couldn't keep up the momentum. Also, after the 98 season, Pippen was on a Rockets team with 2 all stars and a Blazers team that was one of the deepest teams in the league. Michael Jordan joined a Wizards team than won around 20 games and their best players weren't on the team when Jordan got there. Scottie Pippen without Michael Jordan would be a more consistent version of other versatile players like Ron Harper and Lamar Odom and Grant Hill, the main difference is Pippen is a better defender and more athletic. It benefitted Scottie Pippen that Michael Jordan played off the ball during his later years so Pippen could initiate the offense and play his style. Michael Jordan sacrificed a lot of stats in favor of his teams developing.
@Jiron127
Жыл бұрын
The 93-94 bulls was the same roster minus MJ. So the team was still in championship form. They just lacked mj. Pippen was not better than grant hill, save for defense.
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
Facts mj came to bulls when they were a failing organization Scottie inherited a team that was coming off a 3 peat.
@rayquaza1245
Жыл бұрын
I've never seen a player get as much credit for leading his team to a 3 seed second round exit, than Scottie Pippen.
@sportschannel3637
Жыл бұрын
@@Jiron127 Bulls signed good players this season and the East generally went downhill with deaths of some of the best players in the League (Petrovic and Reggie Lewis) and career-ending injuries (Price, Dougherty, Doc Rivers and others). Fact: without Jordan the Bulls are still today (25 years later) without winning anything. Gretzky left the Oilers and they won the championship two years later with practically the same team, same players that Gretzky had on his side. In the HFBoards forums this is not hammered out day after day. Nothing is said. Haterism with Jordan sometimes borders on the absurd. Oh, and yes, offensively speaking, Grant Hill was clearly superior to Pippen.
@Jiron127
Жыл бұрын
@@sportschannel3637 Pretty much this. The Toronto raptors after kawhi left in 2019. Did the same thing because it was the same roster minus kawhi. As a result, they had a good playoff run. They tried to mimic it again the next year and couldn't deliver. Same as the bulls (until mj returned). The mj hate comes from revisionist that look at lbj as some goat. Whenever lbj leaves a team (10', 14, 18') they get substantially worse. Which is true 😂!!! However, the reason that is, is because lbj constructs top heavy teams (kyrie, wade, bosh, mo williams) with poor shooting and barely any decent guards or big men/defense to speak of.
@detroithustle-n-business9671
Жыл бұрын
Well when Jordan retired in 93-94, Pippen led the Bulls to 55 wins, ( only 2 less then year before with Jordan), Averaged 22 points, almost 9 rebs., 6 assists and 3 steals(led the league). Pippin was All NBA 1st team, Allstar game MVP that year and was 3rd in the League MVP!! So it's safe to say Pippen would have still been a great player without Jordan!
@garygnu8775
Жыл бұрын
That Pippin you got was trained by MJ 🤷ijs
@detroithustle-n-business9671
Жыл бұрын
@Gary Gnu Well everybody was trained by Somebody, even Jordan was "trained" by Somebody. But Pippen still went out there and did that!! And also remember that Jordan NEVER WON before OR Without Pippen!! 🤷♂️ Ijs....😄
@lex6794
Жыл бұрын
I think Pippen could of been the main man on a team.
@anthony2b173
7 ай бұрын
55 wins only won 1 series 😂😂😂
@mypeople1stwilliam
Жыл бұрын
Pippen was in MVP talks in 1993-94. Also went on to help lead Portland to a West Finals in 2000. I think Pippen might’ve still be at least second tier good.
@g24deez
Жыл бұрын
That talented Blazers team went to the 99 WCF and lost to the Spurs so they decided to bring in Pippen to get them over the hump and Pippen failed. Pippen blew a 13 point lead going into the 4th quarter in the 00 WCF. The next three seasons in Portland Pippen got bounced outta the 1st round. So technically they needed Pippen to get them over the hump not lead them to the WCF again because they made it in 99 without Pippen lol. Nice try with the talking points fella lol
@Thanosdidtherighthing
Жыл бұрын
That Blazers team was 2nd in the western conference before Pippen got there
@mypeople1stwilliam
Жыл бұрын
@@Thanosdidtherighthing facts. I think the addition of Pippen moves them to a better chance at a Finals appearance. They lost in 7 games to a team I would say ended up being better than the Spurs around that time.
@zxcvb3772
Жыл бұрын
@@mypeople1stwilliam Scottie Pippen was 3-10 in game 7 in the 2000 WCF and choked a 20 point lead in the 4th.. He tried to blame the Rockets failure on Barkley in 1999 when he shot 33% from the field the entire first round of the playoffs while taking more shots than Barkley. He wanted to be the first option so bad but he's not that guy.
@jaycespades8360
Жыл бұрын
Plenty of people get in mvp talks it’s not that big of a deal. Question is did he win it? Answer is hell no, so stop with that bullshit!
@looechange7966
Жыл бұрын
Did he ask what was Kobe before Shaq? Kobe was in high school before shaq. Kobe's first year was shaq's first year in LA.
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
Im surprised no one checked him on that
@Shiljamannn
Жыл бұрын
Saying Kobe Bryant is the same as Carmelo Anthony is an insult to basketball...Kobe had way better defense and better winning mentality than Melo... Melo only cared about the spotlight, more than winning, and also Melo didn't improve much troughout his career while Kobe was always trying to be better....
@marleymarsss
Жыл бұрын
Shaq didn’t make Kobe better. He put in that work on his own, wasn’t nobody in that gym mentoring him. It’s different
@DreamFactories
Жыл бұрын
So Kobe without Shaq wins more than 5 rings?
@marleymarsss
Жыл бұрын
@@DreamFactories you’re talking about winning, I’m talking about skill. Shaq had zero to do with Kobe becoming who he was
@tonyt888
Жыл бұрын
Kobe would have been Kobe even without shaq. The mamba mentality has been there from day 1. His dedication to his craft was not something he learned from Shaq. Kobe always called Shaq lazy because the thought Shaq would have been a GOAT if he really put the time during workout and practice.
@Kosher93
Жыл бұрын
The argument Ticket is making can also be used for Scottie 😂😂😂
@Ju5Tice718
Жыл бұрын
Exactly!
@THISISRISE
Жыл бұрын
How when pippin got there after Jordan was already the man
@SLPERIONTV
Жыл бұрын
@@jleww8959 Pippen Lost with MJ against the Pistons. So the lie that Jordan didn't win until Pippen came to the team was cap.
@kendreviusclincy4377
Жыл бұрын
@@SLPERIONTVman the man literally never not one time won a playoff series without pippen then needed each other pippen was the better every thing but scorer passer defender rebounder his better
@wallacepemberton932
Жыл бұрын
@@kendreviusclincy4377 what you know about Pippens charity game? When Jordan was retired the first time? Noone was buying tickets until he got Jordan to participate, and they immediatelysold out. Pippen stacked the team against Jordan and said he just hopes Jordan doesn't embarrass him on TV. I think Jordan did, think he dropped 52 on Pippen. Pippen and anybody watching NBA from 86-98 knew that Pippen was not better at anything on the court than Jordan. Were you watching? Or just speaking with partial knowledge?
@adrianprince7266
Жыл бұрын
They both needed each other. Even now after the fallout between the two, both still say they needed each other. Pretty cut and dry to me
@aquartermil
Жыл бұрын
Shaq nasty with that kobe take 💯
@sunnyballeralert
Жыл бұрын
1000% percent he really believes what he saying makes it worst
@RoninBgk
Жыл бұрын
@@sunnyballeralert he's a delusional dork
@RoninBgk
Жыл бұрын
He says anything to uplift LeBron It's cringe
@thomaschapman6088
Жыл бұрын
How is he uplifting Lebron? Your Lebron hate is cringe.
@RoninBgk
Жыл бұрын
@@thomaschapman6088 He always hating on Kobe/MJ There you go👍
@704jizzle2
Жыл бұрын
These dudes weren't even IN SCHOOL TO REMEMBER ANY OF THIS
@blackurustrikes2328
Жыл бұрын
It's impossible to project what Scottie would have been without MJ.
@Taj_Rahine
Жыл бұрын
If you didn't watch his career, then yes it is impossible
@jasonhearn5818
Жыл бұрын
@Taj Rahine yeah because the last dance clearly shows his progress as a Rookie to all star calibur player and the influence of MJ and his leadership
@ellandlord2456
Жыл бұрын
no rings😂😂
@morelljohnson3168
Жыл бұрын
@@jasonhearn5818it’s mighty funny that y’all make these claims but fail to mention that before pippen came who tf did jordan make better or influence to be better. Because last time I check the system that was set up made Scottie what he was due to Phil.
@blackurustrikes2328
Жыл бұрын
@@Taj_Rahine I am a 61 year old CHICAGOAN. I watched Scottie's WHOLE career REALTIME, and I did so totally from the perspective of a GROWN man. Scottie was a very UNIQUE prospect coming into the NBA during that time. He wasn't a high caliber HS recruit. He wasn't even 6 ft tall when he entered Central Arkansas University. He almost literally became what he became out of thin air. Scottie had fantastic physical attributes and some skills. But he hadn't played against top flight colleges. He wasn't accustomed to playing in high stakes, highly competive situations. In fact, one of the biggest reasons why the Bulls struggled against the Piston is because Scottie could not handle the pressure from the Bad Boys. I think Mike was a great role model for Scottie. And Phil Jackson was good for him too. Do I think Scottie had the PHYSICAL capability to be a great player without MJ. Sure I do. But its his mental and emotional frame I question. I saw enough of Scottie to know that had he gone to a bad team, with bad coaching and no leadership, he might have just been a very good player who had a couple of allstar seasons and he would have retired with the majority of people hardly remembering who he was.
@shax3535
Жыл бұрын
Scottie is overrated by Lebron fans but properly rated by MJ fans lol. Hes more like Middleton, Klay type of player.
@darriusbeal7953
Жыл бұрын
I’m a bron fan but Scottie underrated asf he will always be on MJ shadow
@rayquaza1245
Жыл бұрын
I think many Jordan fans underrated Scottie but overall they are more realistic about him than Lebron fans.
@MrOburgess
Жыл бұрын
SHAQ was the MAN when he and Kobe were together
@blacknetsmed
Жыл бұрын
Shaq was the best player on team when Shaq and Kobe were together, but people tend to forget the last 2 seasons together they were on similar levels. Kobe finished higher in MVP voting than Shaq in both the 2003 Season and the 2004 Season.
@christurner2684
Жыл бұрын
Without MJ I think Scottie will still be an all star, he was a lockdown defender and was very good at scoring the ball, just go back and look what Scottie did when MJ was playing baseball in the 93-94 season, Scottie finished top 5 in MVP and was close to getting the Bulls to the ECF
@countryrah
Жыл бұрын
He was actually top 3 and won all star MVP award
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
He was a good scorer I wouldn’t say very good but yea he’s a jus another star in a galaxy full of good players but mj is a supernova/black hole
@countryrah
Жыл бұрын
@@Jc-ly6pe pippen was more of a point forward look at his stats compared to players like j kidd and the glove is actually the same or better against other pgs he was a pound forward people forget his job was to facilitate the offense and he lead the team in assist rebounds steals and blocks and second in scoring he was a facilitator
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
@@countryrah pip for his career averaged 16,6,5 2.0stl 0.8blk mj averaged 30,6,5 2.3stl 0.8blk as for passing pip averaged 7ast 1x mj averaged 8ast in 89 pip can’t pass like gp or Kidd
@countryrah
Жыл бұрын
@@Jc-ly6pe his career with bulls is 17.7 ppg 6.4 assist and like around the same rebounds if not more but his career stats went down because of rockets and blazers but pippen playoffs stats are like 19 9 and 8 and finals allot higher especially the first 5
@aaronhutchinson885
Жыл бұрын
Defensively and Athletically he would have been the same/close. The ball handling was there because he was a PG in College. Better question is, how good would have Scottie been without the triangle. The triangle moved Pippen more into a Point Forward role. Which increased his all around play. With Collins as the coach Scottie didn't handle as much, wasn't as used all around the court. Without MJ Pip is probably, 18/6/5 2 steals a game. He was never really a no.1 option, consistently. Pippen didn't have a strong pull up game, mid range shooting etc he wasn't what Grant Hill was in Detroit without MJ
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
HE TOOK THE BULLS TO 55 GAMES WITHOUT MJ. While MJ was a first round choke.
@liambailey1239
Жыл бұрын
That's definitely possible but you could also say the team would be built different around him and force him to develop a different style entirely. I think it's only fair to judge him based on what he actually did without MJ. Which was be a lower end MVP candidate in the 93-94 season.
@NewwxNeww
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 completely different teams, coaching, and competition
@sportschannel3637
Жыл бұрын
@@NewwxNeww He's a hater. I think he can't stand to see ESPN, The Athletic, SLAM, USA Today, Sports Illustrated, FoxSports, FiveThirdyEight, The Undefeated, and etc etc etc always putting the same guy on top.
@aaronhutchinson885
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 he had 2 other allstars with him that year. Horace and BJ. He stats were similar to the years with MJ. Stats wise he didn't take a jump. Can you share what was happening the year after, before MJ came back. You think Scottie would have lead them pass the 1st round..
@AveryB.0
Жыл бұрын
Scottie was an all time great player. If he doesnt play with Jordan he doesn't win as many rings (neither does Jordan), but his stats increase as he will get more shots and opportunities
@christiansoldier77
Жыл бұрын
Avery B. Pippen' would not be ànywhere near as good without MJ
@AveryB.0
Жыл бұрын
@Christian Soldier I think he would have better individual numbers just because there woild be more shots to take and opportunities. He wouldnt have anywhere close to 6 rings though so he would not get talked about as much as he does now as a champion.
@christiansoldier77
Жыл бұрын
@@AveryB.0 You have to take things in their proper context. Pippen was not a great player at all when he first came to the NBA . Jordan helped him to become the player he would later become plus the fame that MJ had rubbed off on Pippen because he was on MJ's team. If Pippen had stayed with the Sonics he would not be the player we remember today thus he would not be likely taking a lot of shot . He would most likely be a player like Josh Howard who played for the Mavs in the 2000s . Good player but nota HOFer and definitely not anywhere near as big a star without Jordan
@mazzb305
Жыл бұрын
I think a more interesting question would’ve been how does MJ’s career change without Scottie and having to go against a prime Scottie. What if Scottie was in Utah or Seattle or NY??
@masculinitymatters9030
Жыл бұрын
Scottie got drafted by Seattle and could have ended up with Payton and Kemp
@C1assic074
Жыл бұрын
Pippen was in the MVP conversation one year without MJ so Pippen definitely would have been a perineal all star without MJ.
@704jizzle2
Жыл бұрын
When KOBE CAME IN HE DID NOT THINK HE WAS BETTER THAN SHAQ
@Kalinbuggs
7 ай бұрын
He did
@5MM408
Жыл бұрын
I don't think anybody but Jerry West would have traded a proven veteran for a high school kid at that time.
@leonsummers6460
Жыл бұрын
Did Ticket see Pippen help the Trailblazers get to the Western Conference finals.
@zxcvb3772
Жыл бұрын
Trailblazers were already in WCF before they got Pippen lol
@jamiecousins254
Жыл бұрын
@@zxcvb3772true but, that was the lockout year and they got swept by the Spurs that year.
@x-man9473
Жыл бұрын
@@jamiecousins254 Ok. But the commenter tried to falsely claim that Pip "got them to the conference finals". He wasn't the leader of the team and they were in the conference finals befor he joined.
@TjayJean-c6x
Жыл бұрын
Well to h honest MJ Ain’t ain’t get out the second round without pippen either 😂😂😂
@darkmasage
2 ай бұрын
He ain’t get out the first round
@AuburnFanSince2010
Жыл бұрын
Ticket once again cooked these fools. Ticket is on another level.
@makhaiferguson4855
Жыл бұрын
Get off your burner account ticket 😂
@armonbell2535
Жыл бұрын
Awful take😂😂😂😂😂
@darkmasage
2 ай бұрын
@@armonbell2535great take 😂😂😂😂
@LarkinIQ
Жыл бұрын
When they brought up Kobe they must’ve forgot when Shaq was injured Kobe was dropping 40+ a game and Phil Jackson told him to stop when Shaq came back.
@jefferybarefield6372
Жыл бұрын
Scottie Pippen peak is 22,8 boards and 6 assist and 3 steals.. without Jordan .. with BJ ,Grant , Harper and Kukoc
@_wael
Жыл бұрын
never compare scottie and kobe again
@StevenTorres.NYC-CA
Жыл бұрын
Pippen was gonna end up in Seattle he would of still been a ridiculous defensive player. Playing with GP, scottie would of became something
@vicshephard9231
Жыл бұрын
Thank you!! Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton, and Scottie would've been sick. With Scottie's iq, athleticism, and work ethic under George Karl I'm giving them some trips to the finals.
@garygnu8775
Жыл бұрын
Scotty would have never had the mental fortitude without Jordan. Even the Scotty that you are praising after Jordan was created by MJ
@THISISRISE
Жыл бұрын
You cannot compare kobe to scottie is because kobe work ethic is why kobe became what he was. Scottie got his work ethic from jordan
@juve4690
10 ай бұрын
Actually is the other way around. 😂 Kobe always copied everything from MJ even the way of walk.😂
@bossza4445
3 ай бұрын
Here’s my take: Scotti without mike would have been like a Jaylen brown a good all star and hall of gamer but not legendary or a as much of a winner with Mike. If Kobe never played with Shaq he would for sure have atleast one right because what we seen from him without shaw for 8 years he won 2
@kambuibomani231
Жыл бұрын
Hate hypotheticals but this is an easy answer. Pippen wouldn’t be an NBA top-50 player without MJ.
@bp2000k
Жыл бұрын
Just like MJ wouldn’t own the 90s without Scottie
@blimbillybood6266
Жыл бұрын
And MJ wouldn’t have 6 rings without Scottie
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
@@blimbillybood6266 it’s debatable but mj without Scottie came in the league at an mvp level Scottie took 3 years jus to get to a low all star level and his prime was very short
@ADG.Est.1988
Жыл бұрын
Agreed
@Dontresssmith3757
Жыл бұрын
You can reverse that question what has Jordan done with out Scottie???? Nothing 1-9 without Pippen and PJ
@williamvaughn4418
Жыл бұрын
Scottie would be the same player without mike .. he may or may not won titles but it wouldn’t be 6 .. and he would still be all nba and all def
@teresa-oj9rq
Жыл бұрын
Pippen actually did pretty good without Jordan after he retired the 2nd time The bulls led by pippen won 1 less game without Jordan. Pippen was an mvp candidate. Jordan did nothing without pippen & Rodman
@kambuibomani231
Жыл бұрын
He peaked after the first round that season and continuously proved thereafter he wasn’t the ideal building block as a team’s best player.
@chaihavertz9203
Жыл бұрын
They added Kukoc that season in 1993-1994 lol. What happen in 1994-1995 season? Somehow they wont mention this season when talking about Pippen lol.
@rayquaza1245
Жыл бұрын
Pippen did alright after 98 but was not a star player by any means. He had a good season in 94 but calling him an MVP candidate is misleading. Hakeem and Robinson were the 2 true MVP candidates and basically got all the votes. There's no player in NBA history that gets as much credit for leading his team to a 3 seed second round exit than Pippen in 94. It's weird to say Jordan did nothing without Pippen when only played without him for the first 2 full seasons of his career. So unless you expect players to win championships right when they enter the league that point doesn't mean much. He also 3peated without Rodman so not sure what you're on about with that one.
@704jizzle2
Жыл бұрын
Kukoc got them OUT THE FIRST ROUND
@dedricklane4899
Жыл бұрын
Jordan had 3 before and 2 after and in all 5 seasons MJ failed to have a Winning record.
@breadbreadman9589
Жыл бұрын
Kobe came to the league thinking he was the best😂and without Eddie jones being there he would of been the leading scorer of all time
@joejett5084
Жыл бұрын
I think the real question is what Scottie would of been if he never had Phil Jackson.
@LembeckIsStaying
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. Zen Master is the common thread in all of this. All you hsve to do is say that to shut Ticket up.
@tommymack4677
Жыл бұрын
Or Shaq, or Jordan
@joejett5084
Жыл бұрын
@@LembeckIsStaying yeah he understood these guys were the talent and he wanted them not to get caught up in emotional battles trying to prove to others on a personal level how great they at a cost of the teams success.
@joejett5084
Жыл бұрын
@@tommymack4677 yeap I was thinking of those guys too. He helped them realize how unstoppable they are when they let their teammates have some shine too
@vicshephard9231
Жыл бұрын
He would've had George Karl coaching him.
@IAM-vr6xx
3 күн бұрын
Scottie's peers (players at the time) said that he would be the best player on another team if he didn't play next to Jordan and there is proof that he would've been.
@teresa-oj9rq
Жыл бұрын
What did Jordan do without pippen & Rodman...scoring titles 🤔
@smoothsavage2870
Жыл бұрын
He won without Rodman 3x. You could've given MJ somebody else and he would've still done what he did. MJ helped Pippen become the player he was.
@blackjesus6433
Жыл бұрын
MJ drafted in 84 and Pip in 87. Shut your channel down please. 🙏🏾
@darkmasage
2 ай бұрын
@@smoothsavage2870and Scottie helped mj be the goat
@Chrislittle223
Жыл бұрын
Take away those 6 rings..... Pippen would still be an all nba and all defensive player and a Hall of famer.....
@RIDGEMATIC
Жыл бұрын
As far as scottie I think he could've become an all star eventually if he never played with Mike but I think playing with Mike elevated his ceiling. Can't front the last line of kobe being Carmelo if he stayed in Charlotte is pretty solid. If he didn't win early with shaq and Phil I'm not so sure he ever becomes a champion on his own.
@malnorfleet4925
Жыл бұрын
Thats fair. He is talented but he clearly wasnt the leader of a team.
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
where was MJ motivation and influence before Scottie got there. 😂🤡. MJ have 0 rings without Scottie that a facts. 😂 like stop it
@malnorfleet4925
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 oh i forgot low iq cant figure out your own dumb question. So mj despite dpoy and scoring champ while pippen is on the bench means what again. So mj has to win alone, but lebron gets to fail with allstars right. Go to bed. Your mom failed you. Hey genius what did pippen win btw without mj?
@vicshephard9231
Жыл бұрын
What superstar has ever stayed in Charlotte? Kobe was leaving when his contact was up. How about the early 2000s Kobe and Tmac show?
@RIDGEMATIC
Жыл бұрын
@@vicshephard9231 Well they never really had a superstar on that level straight walk away that I recall. I can see a scenario of stubborn kobe deciding to prove himself there and I can also see him bolting asap. What if Jerry west never worked him out how different would nba history be??
@andydufresne9377
Жыл бұрын
How these guys manage to be so certain? It's litterally impossible to project what Scottie would have been. It ain't the rules, the context, the opponents, the debate is useless. All their opinions are not based on facts.
@704jizzle2
Жыл бұрын
If mike would have went n teamed up with Dream in 99 they win if he would have went to Portland they win if they don't draft scottie and draft somebody else he develops into a champ with Mj pip would have been a ROLE PLAYER
@crharper25
Жыл бұрын
Bro I swear. Everybody forgetting just how timid Pippen was those first few years. If he goes to Seattle....he plays his normal SF position & may average 12. But without Mike...he never fully breaks out of his shell. But Mike was always destined to be Mike. He came in the league a monster.
@darkmasage
2 ай бұрын
@@crharper25I swear you folks act like people are saying Scottie is better than mj just give Scottie his flowers and keep it pushing
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
MJ A FIRST ROUND EXIT WITHOUT SCOTTIE PIPPEN. 😂 😂 😂 stop it
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
That’s like me saying bron didn’t make the playoffs until Larry Hughes in year 3 lol it’s tru but lacks context. Their first playoff series together pip averaged 10,5,2 0.8stl 1.0blk on47%fg mj that series averaged 45,6,6 2.8stl 1.6blk on 55%fg 🤦🏾♂️stop it lol
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
@@Jc-ly6pe bron won in 3 different organization. He can play with anybody. 2007,2018 he took the cavs to the finals. So bron better because he won without a star player. But he needed a great team to win the championship. GOAT JAMES
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
@@Jc-ly6pe JORDAN WAS A FIRST ROUND CHOKE. Pippen was a lottery pic these are fact's.
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 when did he win without a star lol he had 3 super teams and only got 4 rings
@Jc-ly6pe
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 how do u choke as an underdog lol bron actually choked in 2011 when he got outplayed by a role player lol 😂
@RyanLBrown9396
Жыл бұрын
Jordan actually needed Pip a bit more than pip needed Jordan. The season after mike left, Scottie was a legit mvp candidate
@jefferybarefield6372
Жыл бұрын
How old are you if don't mind me asking?
@kambuibomani231
Жыл бұрын
Big cap. Without MJ Pippen flamed out during the offs as the lead dog with the Bulls and couldn’t get the Blazers over the top as the team’s leader during the lakers series. He’s be a solid NBA player but probably not an all-time Top-50 NBA Player.
@matteoughetti1320
Жыл бұрын
@@kambuibomani231 bro he was 33 y.o, way past his prime…
@kambuibomani231
Жыл бұрын
But was given two opportunities to at least win a ring as a primary piece on other squads without MJ and didn’t do it.
@jefferybarefield6372
Жыл бұрын
@@kambuibomani231 absolutely
@coloneldusty4476
16 күн бұрын
Dell Harris was NOT fired for benching Kobe. He was fired because Jackson agreed to coach the team.
@AuburnFanSince2010
Жыл бұрын
MJ left and Scottie was one call away from the finals.
@aaronhutchinson885
Жыл бұрын
ECSF. .He also quit on the team during that run. I'm not sure if he was ever actually a leader on the other teams..Houston, Portland etc
@morelljohnson3168
Жыл бұрын
@@aaronhutchinson885wtf are you talking about they screwed them Out that series and jordan quite on the bulls and left scottie hanging foh
@aaronhutchinson885
Жыл бұрын
@@morelljohnson3168 he wasn't one call away from the Finals. This occurred in the ECSF v the Knicks. MJ quit. Indeed. This was Scotties opportunity to be the featured player. In 93/94 he was very good. As ticket said, the next season they were struggling with Scottie as the no1. Option. His scoring, rebounding, asst etc didn't go up too much the year MJ didn't play all year..🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️ Check your stats/facts
@NothingElseMattersJM
Жыл бұрын
He only got to the 2nd round lol. You can google this information lol.
@aaronhutchinson885
Жыл бұрын
@@NothingElseMattersJM exactly. Yelling all wrong on the internet 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@GetPackedUp00
Жыл бұрын
Get Ticket Off The Panel 🤣🤣🤣
@cw1229
Жыл бұрын
The Scottie disrespect be crazy homie a top 3 SF all time,
@rayquaza1245
Жыл бұрын
No chance. Lebron, Bird, KD, and Doc are objectively easily above Scottie. Then you have Havlicek, Baylor, and Kawhi who are still likely above Scottie, but maybe you could debate it if Scottie is your guy.
@cw1229
Жыл бұрын
@@rayquaza1245 Bron bird and Pippen in that order none of them other guys have the game or impact, Scottie was the 2nd most important piece to the greatest dynasty in nba history and really outside of being the lead scorer did everything and led in everything else. Y’all smoking dope
@MrSlashblade
Жыл бұрын
Same type of player? Yea, he doesn’t have the same career that doesn’t mean he isn’t the same player. He’s definitely the same player. He’s a perennial all star and a perennial all nba, perennial all defensive team player. Also the guy was the 5th pick not a second round pick.
@Thanosdidtherighthing
Жыл бұрын
He’d definitely be a perennial all star and all defensive but he’d probably lose out on a few all nba teams since the Bulls team success kind of helped in that department.
@Thanosdidtherighthing
Жыл бұрын
The interesting hypothetical in this scenario is whether Scottie is the 2nd or first offensive option on x team without MJ. If he’s the first offensive option, it’s going to be very difficult for him to win a championship. If he’s the 2nd offensive option, he can win some.
@vicshephard9231
Жыл бұрын
He'd probably be the 2nd behind a young Shawn Kemp. And Payton would be able to play off ball at times due to Scottie's playmaking.
@tarallbain4415
Жыл бұрын
It's not that complex. Scottie benefited from practicing and playing with the best player ever in the league. Same as a dude called Yohan Blake, he became the sprinter he was due to training with the greatest sprinter ever Bolt. Without that experience Scottie would of been basic. He possessed zero leadership and zero drive ala 94 series and blowing a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter with one of the of the most talented teams on paper the NBA ever had in Portland. Give MJ the same Portland team and what happens?
@dirtyface-capone7622
Жыл бұрын
You put even Wizards Jordan on that Blazers squad, I doubt they lose more than 2-3 games the entire playoffs & take home the ship.
@Ghost-rb6cw
Жыл бұрын
@@dirtyface-capone7622 Jordan literally did nothing in the wizards lmao. 🤣😂
@Ghost-rb6cw
Жыл бұрын
So why didn't Jordan beat the pistons in when he didn't had Scottie for game 7 in the 1990 eastern conference finals???
@dirtyface-capone7622
Жыл бұрын
@@Ghost-rb6cw Probably because it was the Pistons and their 5 All Stars/championship experience vs Just Jordan with no All Stars🤷♂️
@Ghost-rb6cw
Жыл бұрын
@@dirtyface-capone7622 lol they were winning until Scottie went down lol, they literally took the pistons to seven games that year.
@bobby19761994
Жыл бұрын
The seeding 5 to 8 when Jordan came back for the last 17 games of the 1994/1995 season in the Eastern conference 5. Cavs 36/27 6 bulls 34/31 7. Hawks 32/32 8. Nets 26/39
@jefferybarefield6372
Жыл бұрын
Scottie was the Greatest role player of all time
@elmztana1201
Жыл бұрын
Scottie weren’t no damn Role Player !!!!!
@bboywolf
Жыл бұрын
Hell no, scottie pippen had too many series where he was bullshitting or injured
@morelljohnson3168
Жыл бұрын
I swear I can’t respect some of y’all mindset with this jordan meat riding y’all be on down playing a a guy who always guarded the best offensive player on the opposing team making it easy for jordan you mfs weird
@dedricklane4899
Жыл бұрын
Scottie Pippen is above any role player. Role players don’t make 3 straight ALL NBA 1st teams and 8 consecutive ALL DEF 1st teams even with MJ.
@judahmourneth3211
Жыл бұрын
He fact was a role player and 94 showed that
@marrmarbinks
Жыл бұрын
Talking about Shaq in Orlando was nasty he was in year 5 when he went to LA blaming a dude who's 20-23 for not winning when he only played with penny 1or 2 years so ticket was lying on Shaq name
@LightUpDaBomb1
Жыл бұрын
What doest this matter? he was still a dominant player in Orlando and that Magic team was stacked....hell, they got SWEPT in the finals. He didnt get it done and then left for LA and had to wait on Kobe to ascend to a great player.
@feezy3250
Жыл бұрын
Scottie would've been 67ers Iguadala
@TheRealLeonardWashington
Жыл бұрын
Facts. He would’ve been Danny Grangier, Stephen Jackson, Rudy Gay territory without Mike. Not Larry, Bron and KD
@teresa-oj9rq
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealLeonardWashington and Jordan without pippen was a more efficient Westbrook
@TheRealLeonardWashington
Жыл бұрын
@@teresa-oj9rqMike was never in his entire career as reckless as Westbrook. Westbrook never was in the discussion of being the best player in the NBA. Mike was in that discussion before he won his first ring. You sir don’t know basketball
@iampioneer81
Жыл бұрын
@@TheRealLeonardWashington whats crazy is that MJ himself has said that Scottie was just as good as Magic or Bird. Because of how he impacted the game defensively. If MJ said it, doesnt that hold more weight than some random persons opinon?
@jefferybarefield6372
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely
@coloneldusty4476
16 күн бұрын
Pippen was 100 percent the leader of that 1999/2000 Portland Team
@SportsSpeak73
Жыл бұрын
Scottie would've been good but he wouldn't have become what he was. He would've probably made a few All-Star games eventually but I dont think he would've been an AS game regular. Yes Scottie was playing at an MVP while MJ was retired but that was a Scottie who had already evolved into that player so you can't use that to judge the kind of player he would've been without Mike's influence.
@MrMex44
10 күн бұрын
This ticket person says “I’ll hit you with facts” then hits people with opinions
@giiotm8272
Жыл бұрын
Scottie without MJ won 55 games & nearly made the Finals , he also went to the West & made the Western Conference Finals as the best player on the team (Portland) Scottie without Mike would have more accolades, better stats & would ultimately be more respected by his peers & fans alike.. he was more than a Robin, everytime he stepped into the Batman role, he balled out. Playing with Jordan was a gift & a curse for Scottie; yeah they won 6 rings but then casuals will always say “without Jordan Scottie was nothing” they will give all the credit, even Pippen’s individual greatness to MJ, when he’s clearly one of the BEST forwards the game has ever seen, regardless of MJ.
@cellytyree4771
Жыл бұрын
The comparisons is wayy off . Pippen would of been like a prime Andre igoudala .
@vicshephard9231
Жыл бұрын
A mutant Iggy.
@tylerwatkins1341
Жыл бұрын
Love the jimmy butler comparison
@glyle2504
Жыл бұрын
This is gross, Scottie Pippen took the Eastern Conference Champions to 7 games and *BARELY* lost with Horace Grant being his second best player, while being top 3 in MVP winning 55 games after MJ left-but he’s gonna go from the best SF off the entire decade to some fringe allstar??? What are we doing right now?
@ChickenTone378
Жыл бұрын
Bruh they’d still be the Seattle SuperSonics.
@LowercaseKev
Жыл бұрын
I was talking bout this yesterday. You can't avoid the hypothetical effecting both sides of the argument equally. With your logic we could say Jordan doesn't win one title after he left Pippen also. We can't be this delusional Ticket to ignore that as well 🤣
@garygnu8775
Жыл бұрын
Pippin was created by MJ
@Vortexnicholas
Жыл бұрын
why do these what if scenarios ?? Theres no way to legit confirm what would happen with these hypothetical what if scenarios.without jordan its possible Scottie wouldve been playing with another star player have a bunch of complimentary pieces , and possibly go to a finals or 2 . But theres no way to 100% know for sure.
@jaycespades8360
Жыл бұрын
Ticket cooked Shaq. Shaq talking about “who wouldn’t have made that trade” only because he seen the outcome. At the time Kobe want looked at like that. Kobe top 5 DOA stop capping!
@lex6794
Жыл бұрын
MJ held Pippen back. Pippen's best year was when Jordan retired. Phill Jackson was their he would of got Pippen to where he would be now. Pippen possibly could be the main man on a team.
@Edd_LShore
6 ай бұрын
With todays rules, Pipprn wouldve been a max player in another team after his rookie contract. No way he gets underpaid to do the dirty work for MJ for his entire peak. 0% chance
@lex6794
6 ай бұрын
@@Edd_LShore 👍🏽
@drkdze
Жыл бұрын
8:24 Shaq is right! Kobe was nothing before Shaq. But Shaq by the time he got to the Lakers was already a dominant 30+ ppg rim-breaking force who had already led a young Orlando team to the finals with an established reason resume. It the whole reason Jerry West wanted him. Why is Del and Ticket trying to die on a hill with this argument? SMH
@blacknetsmed
Жыл бұрын
Kobe Bryant was 16 year old in high school before Shaq. There isn't any "before shaq" in regards to Kobe Bryant NBA career. Such a bizarre talking point to begin with.
@touregarrett
Жыл бұрын
How was Kobe nothing before Shaq, when they came to the Lakers in the same Summer. Such a dumb take.
@Thanosdidtherighthing
Жыл бұрын
How does that make any sense ?
@magotheguy173
Жыл бұрын
@@blacknetsmed that's literally the whole point.. before he played with Shaq, Kobe wasn't in the league. His whole career was a product of playing with Shaq because he played with Shaq when he came in.
@blacknetsmed
Жыл бұрын
@@magotheguy173 "His whole career is by product of playing with Shaq" That's a pretty ridiculous statement that is based on narrative driven storytelling not common sense.
@GapGod78
Жыл бұрын
I’ve been saying this since he started talking out of his mouth about Jordan. Jordan’s worth ethic and thrive to be great is like no other, other than maybe Kobe. But he wouldn’t follow Kobe cuz of age. Pippen would’ve been like a Sharif Abdul Rahim.
@curiouslymavismade
Жыл бұрын
If Pippen didn't play with Jordan, he would have been a starter, but he wouldn't have got a ring, a PJ Tucker type player.
@jevonkennebrew2311
Жыл бұрын
Shaq is disrespectful as hell with the Kobe comment. Salute to PC
@keyofdi4149
Жыл бұрын
This will be an interesting conversation if fools could talk one at a time
@shanerobinson925
Жыл бұрын
Kobe got there as a rookie and shaq was there off a finals appearance and 3-4 all star years in Orlando no comparison
@lamontewilliams203
Жыл бұрын
Ticket is absolutely correct about Scottie. Scottie was good on defense, but Pip at times was challenged offensively. In no way was Pip as talented as DeRozan on offense.
@ScoutsHonor.
Жыл бұрын
Without Jordan, Scottie is wherever Grant Hill is. Held in a high regard but there wouldn’t be many podcast episodes speaking on him.
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
where was MJ motivation and influence before Scottie got there. 😂🤡. MJ have 0 rings without Scottie that a facts. 😂 like stop it
@ScoutsHonor.
Жыл бұрын
@@coreythomas3633 you commented on the wrong post.
@relllamar7654
Жыл бұрын
Kobe Bryant was fresh out of high school when he played with Shaq
@randywatson6583
Ай бұрын
So what
@twinman3539
Жыл бұрын
Kobe feeling like he is better than Shaq doesn't make him better than Shaq.
@christiansoldier77
Жыл бұрын
Nobody would know who Pippen was if he never played with Jordan
@iflemister3935
11 ай бұрын
Ticket act like other Allstar didn’t start on the bench
@Edd_LShore
6 ай бұрын
He wouldve lead his own team and get the respect he deserves. If Reggie freaking Miller was a franchise player in the 90s, even thinking that Pippen wouldnt have been just fine without MJ shadow is idiotic
@joeldrummer23
Жыл бұрын
😂🤦🏻♂️ what’s the fact? He had the career with him… such stupid hypothetical…whatever happened to having legend players complimented each others game perfectly?
@jarionchaffin3998
Жыл бұрын
Jordan didn’t do shit when he was the lone star
@704jizzle2
Жыл бұрын
Pip WAS A LIFETIME ROLE PLAYER NEVER A LEADER
@hardwoodthought1213
Жыл бұрын
Role players don’t make All-NBA 1st team for 4 years straight
@coeffyb4443
Жыл бұрын
No pippen would not be the same player without MJ because to it looked like Pippen was Inspired to elevate his game by MJ and competing against MJ at the sametime. Thats y after the Last Dance Pippen talk alot things about MJ that comes off a bit negative but may be true to some people.
@MossBigWest
Жыл бұрын
If Kobe stays in charlotte and not LA he definitely Melo😂
@kyleemerson
Жыл бұрын
They need to let each other speak
@mytruthismoreuseful
Жыл бұрын
i haven't seen shaq get pissed in a min lmaoo
@judahisrisingyahschosen9481
Жыл бұрын
Pippen got his flowers..he just showed that he wanted to be in Michael’s shoes but couldn’t. Clearly that’s how they where treating him college. He was never gonna reach superstar status
@Y2KJake
Жыл бұрын
Pippen would definitely be a superstar or prenial all-star 94, which definitely proves that. But his ego would've been his downfall, especially when he sat out
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
8:24 kobe wasn't in the nba before shaq. So he had no chance of being anything before then. Im surprised no one corrected him on that statement. 😳
@demetriussmith9234
Жыл бұрын
Same with Scottie 😂
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
@Demetrius Smith yea you're right. But here's the difference. When kobe got the opportunity to win without shaq he did, however scottie couldn't win without mike 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
@demetriussmith9234
Жыл бұрын
@@dejon18 that’s not the same Kobe gt away from shaq when he was in his 20s bro Scottie was like 36… with a terrible contract
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
@Demetrius Smith in 94 scottie was in his prime 🤷🏿♂️ and i in 95 was on the verge of missing the playoffs until mike came back and saved his ass
@dejon18
Жыл бұрын
@Demetrius Smith btw my comment had nothing to do with scottie any way
@ZaeKaneTV
Жыл бұрын
Shaq got cooked 😂😂😂
@randywatson6583
Ай бұрын
No he didn't
@ironmen23
Жыл бұрын
Why is Tickets camera always off?
@sheldonsmith3570
Жыл бұрын
MJ NEVER proved that he could win without Pippen and a Super Team. All MJ was doing is putting up numbers less efficiently than KD and Bron
@ChitownCrazy1000
Жыл бұрын
How old are you, do you know the definition of Super Team? Do you call LA and Boston Super teams too?
@rayquaza1245
Жыл бұрын
The Bulls were never a super team, they were a great team lead by the GOAT. This whole "MJ never proved he could win without Pippen" is silly when he played with him for basically his entire career.
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
@@ChitownCrazy1000 where was MJ motivation and influence before Scottie got there. 😂🤡. MJ have 0 rings without Scottie that a facts. 😂 like stop it
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
@@rayquaza1245 90S BULLS WAS A SUPERTEAM CLOWN.horce grant aj Armstrong. 6th man of the year kuckocs,Pippen dennis rodemen. Steve kerr GOAT HEAD COACH PHILL JACKSON.
@coreythomas3633
Жыл бұрын
@@ChitownCrazy1000 90s bulls was a superteam clown. horce grant aj Armstrong. 6th man of the year kuckocs,Pippen dennis rodemen. Steve kerr GOAT HEAD COACH PHILL JACKSON.
@CurtisT1019
3 ай бұрын
Here are facts: Scottie Pippen averaged 16.1 points per game for his career and 7.9 in his rookie year. Do you honestly think that qualifies him to be a top-tier player in the NBA? But since he played alongside Michael Jordan and is a six time NBA champion he’s considered a top 75 player. MJ took Scottie under his wing and made him better. Scottie was paired with all-star players each time MJ retired but never won a chip. MJ didn’t play with all-stars in his Wizard years but made them playoff contenders before his knees gave out.
@y2shuproblem
Жыл бұрын
Vlade Divac didn't make the All Star team until 2001, over 4 years after the Kobe trade. Ticket is so wrong here.
@snipepaths0926
Жыл бұрын
I hate these type of debates 😂 hypotheticals open the Pandora’s box
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