Won 1st place oldschool demo at Demosplash 2023 capture on actual Apple IIe I'm working on a "final" version with improved effects and better sound sync For disk images and more info see: deater.net/weav...
I like the creativity in how some of the original effects are approximated or implied despite the Apple's hardware limitations.
@ProBloggerWorld
11 ай бұрын
From his website: Q. I think the whole thing looks ugly and lazy A. Maybe. Like a lot of my retro projects, this started as a joke that got out of hand. Then I ended up spending 2 months working on it, which is a lot considering I don't even like Second Reality that much. Then finally, in typical demoscene fashion, the deadline was a week away so I worked late hours slapping together whatever effects I could manage and just barely got something reasonable together minutes before the deadline. / I can relate. 😅
@Sinistar1983
10 ай бұрын
Ugly is not what I'd describe it. A technical marvel is a more fitting description.
@cybernit3
9 ай бұрын
Next project make a Apple 2GS version, it might be fairly decent with that. Apple 2GS was sort of like an Amiga 500 I believe....
@xargos
10 ай бұрын
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect to see a version of this on the Apple IIe! It's quite a nice surprise.
@charlesjmouse
10 ай бұрын
An amazing demo, especially given the hardware... It does show how very limited the Apple II really is. Most 'old' computer demos unlock abilities often their designers didn't know about, but in the Apple II Woz had already used every trick in the book just to get the system to run competitively - no custom hardware, not even the convenience of a CRTC. For all the coding excellence on show here this demo would have likely been impossible without a Mockingboard taking care of sound, timing, and interrupts. Well done Mr Demo Coder, and well done Woz. PS: For the slow of thinking I have a soft spot for the Apple II - for what little it is it does an amazingly good job. Also it's utter simplicity and expansion slots make upgrades easy.
@kargaroc386
10 ай бұрын
And this demo *pays the price.*
@deater78
10 ай бұрын
there are a few tricks to unlock on Apple II. Biggest is "vapor-lock" to get vsync from the floating bus and then do mid-screen mode switching. However that's difficult to pull off and wouldn't have really added much to any of the effects in second reality a trick that would be useful is being able to play music while loading from disk. It's extremely difficult but at least two groups have done it before. It would be really handy for this demo but probably not worth the effort.
@bergles1
10 ай бұрын
this is awesome... I'm saying "get down" and "10 seconds to transmission" right on cue years later
@HeatDeath76
10 ай бұрын
"I am not an atomic playboy!"
@vance_und_tony
18 күн бұрын
Who doesn't :-)
@Lofote
9 ай бұрын
This also shows very good, how essential the graphics chip was in the 80s. Because the CPU was (basically) the same on the C64 and also same speed... but the C64 version looks sooo much better and also faster. :) Still: my respect to the programmers here :)
@gaborszabo6406
2 ай бұрын
Impressive demo for this machine!
@rainerblessing923
11 ай бұрын
Now we need a version for the Atari 2600.
@niner8275
10 ай бұрын
Thinking of how ridiculously complicated it is to just position and color pixels on an AppleII (tried that 34 years ago), anything fullscreen animated with > 1 fps is stunning! Very good job!
@niner8275
10 ай бұрын
@@johnrcornell I rather meant programming them as animations. In Basic you do have commands for drawing lines that will do all the work for you. But once you need faster graphics, you will have to do it in 6502 assembly and then you discover stuff like that the video buffer isn't laid out linear from top to button but interlaced on 2 levels and much more! Of course with integer basic or even the other basic (I think it was from MS), you also could do animations, but at a very low framerate compared to assembly.
@ffelix916
10 ай бұрын
@@niner8275 Interlace was done that way (3 sections of 64 lines, each section interlaced 8:1 if i recall?) because it saved Steve Jobs one single TTL IC :D To do proper linear video, they would've needed an additional frame buffer IC, or much much faster main memory. There was a really simple routine somewhere in ROM that you could reference that mapped linear Y coordinate to scanline base memory address. It was only about 20 ops, if my memory serves. That can add up, though, if you're trying to do fast animation, so some people just sacrifice a little memory and use lookup tables.
@colinltube
10 ай бұрын
@@ffelix916 *Steve Wozniak ;)
@RobinDale50
5 ай бұрын
I recently worked on a tile-based renderer using Ultima tiles to see just how fast it would be possible to spit out that Ultima screen. Turns out you can get around 15fps if you don't care about memory efficiency. That covers about half the entire screen (11x 11 tile grid, 16x16 pixels per tile). I have a video series on my channel about it, showing the (Approximate) original frame rate of the Ultima games and my version, which also included a more memory efficient, but slower, method. I totally used lookup tables for each graphics line/row
@saganandroid4175
3 ай бұрын
@@ffelix916 Give the insane non-linearity, and the address holes, I found text mode impossible to tolerate. I can't imagine dealing in bitmaps. DHR is even worse. But I would love to know the call for this routine to convert a caertesian coordinate to an actual pixel address. I know tables seem essential for all screen related things on the AppleII series.
@ozzie_goat
11 ай бұрын
Don't know whether to consider it blasphemous or amazing
@AndrewFremantle
10 ай бұрын
Why not both?
@MichaelPuterbaugh
10 ай бұрын
Blasphemazing!
@JonAbbott
10 ай бұрын
Fantastic job! Certainly brings back memories of both the Apple ][ and Second Reality.
@ancipital
10 ай бұрын
Pretty amazing for a machine with no custom chips, a hard to work with graphics display (saw a video about how hard it was to work with recently), a purposefully crippled CPU by apple (to not step on the toes of their more expensive machines of the time) and literally everything having to go through the CPU due to no offloading of any tasks to other chips
@nrdesign1991
10 ай бұрын
The next level would only be a Micro Controller like in LFT's "craft" demo where literally everything is running on bare metal
@bryede
8 ай бұрын
Apple didn't intentionally cripple the Apple II, it's just the victim of Woz's minimalist design that originally used only off-the-shelf parts. When it came out in 1977 they had no competing product lines (the Lisa shipped in 1983) and I imagine you're thinking of IBM who had an entire mainframe division.
@ggoedert
11 ай бұрын
Apologies to Future Crew...! :-D It is possible that someone from Future Crew did have an European Apple II clone... The first crack screens appeared on Apple II's...
@julienbraudel7109
10 ай бұрын
Apple II were sold in Europe, not clones specifically. That is the reason why some of the earliest crackers were French. Computer Club had Apple II in France, and imported games were very expensive.
@iamjustaclone
10 ай бұрын
fantastic !! :) brings back memories... great achievement well done and funny details "apologies to: Future Crew" hahaha :->
@inphanta
10 ай бұрын
I like the music. Trying to do this particular demo on Apple II was probably a little too ambitious though.
@benjaminhanke79
4 ай бұрын
Is the C64 version that you can find here on KZitem fake? If not it looks like that the Apple2 was about ten times less capable than the C64, even if they're both based on the 6502.
@gaborszabo6406
2 ай бұрын
Not fake. Commodore 64 is much improved machine with special chips, like sid. Processor is almost the same yes, but nothing else.
@mtuomi
7 ай бұрын
Very impressive!!❤ Trug/Future Crew
@AxelDragani
11 ай бұрын
I need this demo to become the next Bad Apple!
@Metallumtenebrarum-jt7rd
Ай бұрын
Sounds like a ZX spectrum demo (both the mockingboard and the 128k spectrum has the same sound chip)
@ChrisR
11 ай бұрын
Son, I am Impress. This is a fantastic accomplishment.
@fenriswolf039
11 ай бұрын
Blown away. Well done!
@RonaldoGazel
9 ай бұрын
Absolutely amazing.
@merman1974
11 ай бұрын
I'm impressed, clever code is supported well by the graphics and music. Love the chunky 3D city and the familiar blue ray-tracing part. Top work.
@kargaroc386
10 ай бұрын
I watched Second Reality C64 before this. *Oh no.*
@BrendanRobert
11 ай бұрын
Deater, as always: YOU MADMAN! :) Kudos, this is a fantastic demake. Also Zoom and Ma2e did amazing work with the soundtrack. Really captured a lot of the spirit of the original S3M soundtrack. Also, lots of respect that you kept "FC '93" on the buildings in the end and the original authors in the credits. All around, thank you and fantastic stuff. ][ Infinitum!
@janhallholm9043
11 ай бұрын
Mind blowing so good sound from Apple II
@kaerucraft7100
12 сағат бұрын
Is there an audience reaction from the Demosplash 2023?
@kilianhekhuis
10 ай бұрын
Very impressive! Btw at 10:35 there's credits for a part that's not in the demo, or did I miss something?
@retropuffer2986
11 ай бұрын
Just amazing! 🤯
@LouisSerieusement
4 ай бұрын
amazing
@DonaldDuckPL
3 күн бұрын
@Lollero200q
10 ай бұрын
Atomic playboys
@AiOinc1
10 ай бұрын
Incredible! I'm so glad people are remastering one of my favorite demos for other platforms. It gets more and more impressive every time.
@herrbonk3635
10 ай бұрын
_"remastering"_ ...?? How do you logically justify a word like that?
@AiOinc1
9 ай бұрын
@@herrbonk3635I'm not sure I understand your question.
@herrbonk3635
9 ай бұрын
@@AiOinc1 Listen to the word! It says something along the lines of "making a master again". What is that supposed to mean in this context?
@gctechs
11 ай бұрын
Next try Casio calculator
@Sakanakao
11 ай бұрын
Quite Unreal. 2. ^_^
7 ай бұрын
awesome!
@CorporalDanLives
11 ай бұрын
Omg Apple II rotozoomer!!!!
@GarthBeagle
11 ай бұрын
Incredible!
@kaerucraft7100
3 ай бұрын
I don't have any knowledge of the Apple II performances. Can someone tell me how powerful is this demo? I'm still amazed :D
@JH-pe3ro
2 ай бұрын
The Apple II is one of the earliest microcomputer systems, and while it supports color bitmap display in a few different modes(all are basically variants on "chunky" modes), it doesn't offer anything to accelerate that, so everything you're seeing in this version of Second Reality is what the 6502 itself can do to push pixels, plus the Mockingboard sound card. Doing any kind of animation or raster effects on it is relatively tedious and won't look smooth, so the demo is a good port, but also roughly what one would expect out of the machine.
@kaerucraft7100
2 ай бұрын
@@JH-pe3ro Okay, thanks for the explanation! I searched some documentation about the machine, and yeah, the system is very limited. I really like to see and explore the limits of retro machines like the Commodore 64, thanks again for the explanation!
@xcoder1122
10 ай бұрын
How much faster would the graphics be without the music? I assume the music takes up a decent chunk of all CPU resources and I'm not talking about the creation of the output data (pitch shifting, channel mixing, etc.), I'm talking about playing that data. IIRC most Apple II games stopped all animation when playing full sound effects, as just playing them used so much CPU time, that no decent animation was possible at the same time. Or they just used some very short beeps, pops and crackling sounds, which were not played continuously and thus allowed to perform some animation in between; like in Prince of Persia, where the sound effects sounded like crackling noise from a broken speaker. So without the music, the graphics would be significant faster, wouldn't they?
@deater78
10 ай бұрын
the music is using a Mockingboard card. It's not bitbanging the speaker. It's playing a tracked PT3 file which takes about 10-20% overhead. Playing raw AY-3-8910 (ym5-style) music would have essentially 0 overhead, but in that case you need to write ~10 registers 50 times a second (so roughly 30k of data per minute) so you can see why that isn't the best idea
@DrWakey
11 ай бұрын
But will it run Crysis?
@sbarker06
10 ай бұрын
CRYSIS TEST
@thezood
10 ай бұрын
Perhaps not on ultra
@steampunkscientist
10 ай бұрын
What a way to overcome the limitations of that machine.
@CarlosPardo
11 ай бұрын
Kudos !
@Radek0582
10 ай бұрын
wow, just wow
@eternalcheesecake
11 ай бұрын
I was thinking, is this on a hard drive image? And then it prompts to insert disk side 2!
@alexanderbjork6451
10 ай бұрын
Impressive 🙂👍
@lastawake2822
11 ай бұрын
Whoa, impressive as hell. o.o I can't wrap my head around fact that you've coded this demo on computer with cpu used also in NES. BTW, would it be possible to make NES version? I don't know a thing about programing, especially on that kind of machines, but my wild guess - it would not work due to memory limitations, am I right?
@JSwanson547
11 ай бұрын
Let's not rule anything out just yet. It was quite common to include extra stuff in the cartridges, after all.
@ZamuelAtari
10 ай бұрын
The c64 version is also very impressive. Almost the same as the original on PC
@lastawake2822
10 ай бұрын
@@ZamuelAtari Agreed, c64 version is great indeed. So i'm waiting for NES version. 🤷
@IapetusRetroStuff
11 ай бұрын
wow
@kaerucraft7100
2 ай бұрын
The sound of the video seems different compared to an emulation. how to reproduce this effect?
@deater78
2 ай бұрын
the real life Mockingboard card has a lot of limitations that make it sound a bit different (usually described as "worse") than the perfect AY-3-8910 emulation found in emulators
@kaerucraft7100
Ай бұрын
@@deater78 I don't know why, but the real life mockingbird sounds better 👌
@Aleamanic
11 ай бұрын
Like a bumble bee, it shouldnt be possible to do this on an A2, but Deater does it anyway ;-)
@enfys02
11 ай бұрын
hahaha brilliant :)
@un2mensch
10 ай бұрын
Fucking incredible!
@nematolvajkergetok5104
10 ай бұрын
My mind was blown by the original 1993 version. Then again by the Commodore 64 version in 1997. Now you blew it even further. Please stop.
@jakubkrcma
11 ай бұрын
😯❤
@whophd
10 ай бұрын
What's going on at 6:00 ? What mode is that?
@colinltube
10 ай бұрын
Deater said somewhere else it's HGR mode but updating only half the lines for twice the speed
@sbarker06
10 ай бұрын
Can someone please upscale this video?
@clray123
10 ай бұрын
How did you think the "original" Second Reality had been produced?
@AndrewChapman-j6p
11 ай бұрын
So we manipulate dots CS102
@bmgrooh
11 ай бұрын
The version for C64 is way better
@djaccount5458
11 ай бұрын
C64 have better possibilities, apple 2 is first computer with colour screen.
@PeranMe
11 ай бұрын
You should check out the MS-DOS version, that’s even betterer…
@tcscomment
10 ай бұрын
@@PeranMethe DOS version is the original one
@PeranMe
10 ай бұрын
@@tcscomment Yes. It is.
@MrRobarino
10 ай бұрын
Who cares? It's not a competition. It's 2023, why are you still starting these Apple II versus C64 debates? Stupid.
@ZamuelAtari
10 ай бұрын
The c64 version is also very impressive. Almost the same as the original on PC
@901aerol
10 ай бұрын
Commodore was vastly superior to Apple....and yet Apple is still in business. For shame.
@julienbraudel7109
10 ай бұрын
We actually don't care.
@901aerol
10 ай бұрын
@@julienbraudel7109 why are you gay?
@idudas80
10 ай бұрын
Commodore lost their market share to the PC and console market, not Apple
@gaborszabo6406
2 ай бұрын
Apple lost almost. Commodore destroyed by its marketing peoples :(
@gazzaka
8 ай бұрын
lol
@Dasan1111
6 ай бұрын
Apple ii's graphic ability was really horrible even at the time.
@deater78
6 ай бұрын
I'm curious which machine from 1977 you think had better graphics
@carstenmaul7220
8 ай бұрын
technically impressive ugliness 🙂
@MoonMaster78
10 ай бұрын
Демо - говно, как и сам Apple II. Единственно, что мне понравилось - саундтрек. Неудивительно, что Apple III. также был провальным проектом. Стремный вообще комп Apple. Как по мне ZX Spectrum то получше будет !!! Это просто похоже на порнографию мира компьютеров... Хуже Эппл только Sinclair QL
@gawd0r
11 ай бұрын
Holy wow, deater! This is the most amazing thing ever! Kudos for getting this done! I can't imagine how much time you spent on this. Wish I could hear people at demosplash wowing at this
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