There's always something. Last time he put Zelda instead of Sheik on the top tier (and Sheik in the irrelevant bunch).
@SevoraLF
11 ай бұрын
slippi giving fox all the resources he needs is fitting
@TheKorenji
11 ай бұрын
Of course Slippi is biased...
@242bleek
11 ай бұрын
Thats good because Fox definitely needed a buff.
@Zxv975
11 ай бұрын
Rich get richer smh
@Skantaq
11 ай бұрын
I get it :)
@matrixyst
11 ай бұрын
fox players pick up sheik for marth. marth players pick up icies for sheik. the arms race ends when everyone realizes this is stupid and just goes solo fox
@tuPHwUn
11 ай бұрын
but Fox is too haaaard! -20XX 2023
@Yax2842
11 ай бұрын
Reminds me of a Match YL vs Ness
@AlejoGoVegan
11 ай бұрын
player1: Fox player2: Marth Player1: Sheik Player2: Icies Player1: Samus/Peach Player2: Puff Player1: Marth Player2: C.Falcon Player1: Falco Player2: Marth Player1: Pikachu Player2: Sheik Player1: Puff Player2: Fox repeat forever
@Yax2842
11 ай бұрын
@@tuPHwUnI was referring to this: kzitem.info/news/bejne/kaWp24KujoSdrXo
@SpectreXS
11 ай бұрын
I'm waiting for the day DK makes into this tier list.
@DoctorHazy
11 ай бұрын
Oh he will
@ln8496
11 ай бұрын
He is so much better than samus it isnt funny. His up b is all of samus’ ground moves and her up b put together, but less committal because you dont leave the ground.
@SRM13
11 ай бұрын
@@ln8496smoking crack
@mussy9387
11 ай бұрын
@@ln8496Samus kinda sucks imo the only reason she's still here is bc of legacy bias
@nahometesfay1112
11 ай бұрын
Like DK ain't bad into fox (at least compared to Samus) so I don't get his take.
@Faliolssb
11 ай бұрын
Did mew2king predict the future meta?
@Barf_FaB
11 ай бұрын
Yes
@randomthorn9286
11 ай бұрын
Still believe if there was an aMSa for Luigi he would be able to get similar results. Maybe I am crazy but I just see so much potential in the character
@SSJPENGUIN
11 ай бұрын
I feel this way about a handful of characters
@randomthorn9286
11 ай бұрын
@burstyourbubble3500 I am not afraid to admit I do not have the focus or determination to become the best Luigi in Australia let alone the world, plus my hands hurt if I play too long... :( Still believe it is possible though!
@AwesomeCoates
11 ай бұрын
madtyro just needs to play for 8 more years without breaking his hands
@realw1ll
11 ай бұрын
I’m kinda doomer on luigi tbh his recovery is just so terrible. Cyclone can help but most players don’t have the mashing ability to do it. Plus marth is pretty close to a roadblock matchup imo
@randomthorn9286
11 ай бұрын
@@realw1ll 100% get this. Even so I think Luigi has a theoretical insane combo game on Fox that rivals top tiers. His wavedash alone makes me believe he can engage on his own terms so long as he wins the mental. I see a bad recovery simply as meaning the opponent needs less neutral wins to take a stock, which is not a deal breaker. Marth is rough, but I don't think it is unwinnable thanks only to his insane wavedash. He does also has an arguable bonus of being able to edgegaurd Marth pretty well himself due to his medium weight, although it can be risky. Maybe secondary pikachu for Marth :D
@sinfinite7516
11 ай бұрын
Probably should start ranking Ganon and DK
@whomgod420
11 ай бұрын
babe wake up new objectively correct opinion dropped
@alexanderlane7863
11 ай бұрын
I would like to hear some description of Donkey Kong, His 20XX Tech skill and punish game as well as tools against the top tiers makes him look alive.
@chazjwatson
11 ай бұрын
Bobby died for this
@Badministrator
11 ай бұрын
I agree with the order 100% but I'd put puff and falcon in a-tier and climbers and pika in b-tier.
@Zxv975
11 ай бұрын
Yeah pretty much wanted to say exactly this. Doesn't feel right to have Jiggs and Falcon in S tier
@_Majunior
11 ай бұрын
You were 8 months clean but here we are
@monkey2619
11 ай бұрын
omg this tier list is insane and i love it. sending to all my falco homies rn
@Rael0505
11 ай бұрын
As a falco main I do agree with this new placement lol
@kenshiman90
11 ай бұрын
You have a great voice dude, combined with melee it makes great content lol. And I couldn't agree more with your reasoning for the top 3 and how you see the endgame developing.
@fancey3870
11 ай бұрын
Fairly agreeable list I think you'll see bigger things coming from Samus in the future enough to bump her up into the next tier atleast
@j0rd0
11 ай бұрын
Agreed. Samus is dope. Ps are you the player from East Coast Canada? Noticed your username
@fancey3870
11 ай бұрын
@@j0rd0 yes i am
@j0rd0
11 ай бұрын
@fancey3870 Sick! I'm east coast Canada as well, I think we played each other in a tournament many years back. (You whooped me) hope you're well!
@jiyucy
11 ай бұрын
a year ago people called me crazy for putting Yoshi above Peach and Sheik above Puff
@cupsoup7244
11 ай бұрын
Sick teirlist I enjoy that you explain every character with a good argument
@MitchBison
11 ай бұрын
interesting, i figured since top 8s can have up to 5 foxes in them and usually max out at 2 marths, falco would still get the nod over sheik for being better vs fox. ICs and Puff still are quite bad for Sheik where Falco doesnt have match ups that bad. Fox at 1, Falcon at 6, Samus at 11, and Luigi 12 is very solidified for me. Peach being better vs Fox, Sheik, Falcon (she loses those mus, but they're playbale), Pika, ICs and Samus than Yoshi is in those mus keep her ahead of Yoshi. Also Peach beating Yoshi. The Puff mu and to a lesser extent Marth are really tough for Peach so I can see how people would put Yoshi over Peach, but Yoshi's Fox, Sheik, Falcon, and Peach match ups are brutal as evidenced by aMSa's recent records vs the best players of those characters. So I feel Peach has less VERY tough matchups to dodge than Yoshi. And luckily for Peach, her worst mu in Puff is not a common one and it's easier to dodge hbox these days. Dodging top Foxes has never really been feasible though; you have to beat at least 1-3 to win a major. Kind of a tradeoff where Peach has a must-dodge match up in Puff and Yoshi has four very bad match ups that arent quite MUST-dodge, but aMSa will never be favoured vs the best of those 4 characters. Yoshi and Pika have very similar mu spreads except Yoshi does far better vs Puff and better vs ICs and Pika does somewhat better vs Falcon so I always have them 8 and 9. ICs I have at 10 bc they only beat Sheik and Pika and they are horrendous vs Peach, Puff, and to a lesser extent Falcon. But ICs still have the huge grab damage potential which can mitigate the terrible match ups a bit and give them a chance vs the other top tiers. But also doesn't help ICs that Ganon and Luigi can also be a pretty big threat to them. ICs stay relevant cause top players that aren't a Puff, Peach, or Wizzrobe are still not clean enough to avoid grab consistently. I'm still good with Ganon at 13 since he's good into Samus and ICs and although he's very bad vs the S tier characters, at least he can get a lot off grab. Mekk doing work with Ganon and being ranked higher than the best Doc and DK supports this placement too.
@EA_SP0RTCENTER
11 ай бұрын
Yea not sure I agree with sheik being above Falco lol
@MitchBison
11 ай бұрын
TLDR my list would be this, but I do like Hax's reasoning in his lists cause weighing match ups by their importance in the meta makes sense. Like if you lose hard to Fox it's tough. S: Fox, Marth, Falco, Sheik A: Puff, Falcon, Peach B: Yoshi, Pika, ICs, Samus C: Luigi, Ganon, Doc, DK D: YL, Link, Mario E: Roy, G&W, Mewtwo F: Pichu, Zelda, Ness, Kirby, Bowser
@mlalbaitero
11 ай бұрын
Ganons not that bad for ics at least according to nintendude and some other ics
@KrakheadsVideoHole
11 ай бұрын
mekk has shown ganon is much better in modern meta than expected
@beauhendershot7911
11 ай бұрын
I think dk lowkey could be better than luigi honestly. Luigi is just more exploitable and dk up b is so versatile
@patrickoconnell9387
11 ай бұрын
You should do a tier list that goes down to the worst character that beat you in tournament
@firemblem01
11 ай бұрын
I think this tier list is a consequence of recency bias and will change within the next year. Sheik is not as good as people say she is and when people really start to dissect the MU and play style of top sheik players, she will swap with Falco again. I also think the yoshi stuff will fade over time. A top ten character? Sure. But above peach? I can’t see it. Love the in depth look at this list though. Keep up the good work Hax!
@ellachino4799
11 ай бұрын
I mean, sheik has her struggles, but I think Hax's points regarding Sheik's marth advantage are really insightful.
@leaffinite2001
11 ай бұрын
Ive yet to see a top player tier list that doesnt have massive recency bias lol
@nahometesfay1112
11 ай бұрын
I think Yoshi does better against top tier characters than Peach.
@HL-iw1du
11 ай бұрын
NOOOOO WE HAVE TO HAVE BE MERCURIAL!!!
@NarokathCrimzonAE
11 ай бұрын
Great video but bummer about the mic quality
@TheSketchyBean
11 ай бұрын
A better mic would really bring his videos to the next level
@242bleek
11 ай бұрын
As a Falco main I agree with this. I feel like I get absolutely destroyed by Sheik. One of my worst matchups and turns my shield pressure around on me every time.
@celestial7626
11 ай бұрын
Idk if it’s the sheiks I’m facing or what but I have no problem against sheik as a Falco
@MetiCu
11 ай бұрын
pretty much flawless. looks exactly like mine besides maybe one or two placements
@tuPHwUn
11 ай бұрын
@Pslamist
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for commenting here, MetiCu; it's been too long since I've seen your stuff.
@GG-th8bv
11 ай бұрын
We need full tier list I want to hear his opinions on all characters in the game
@AJScraps
11 ай бұрын
Full tierlist next for sure, thanks🙏
@Micha-Hil
11 ай бұрын
I don't think Hax cares for low tiers, unfortunately
@modology
11 ай бұрын
I wish some balance changes can be made for the rest of the characters that are never viable for tournament play.
@dinglemcdangledongle
11 ай бұрын
there are mods like beyond melee and sd remix
@SharurFoF
10 ай бұрын
I don't like consolidating down to 3 tiers for this. I think with the characters you're looking at, there are some clear tiers that you captured well in your previous list: - Wins regularly - Wins occasionally - Rarely or never wins, but it is or should be possible - Never wins, and should never be expected to win, but is a threat to upset/make top 8 (and then everything not tiered isn't even a threat to upset, although I might add a few more characters to that final group). There's a results-based argument that only Fox and Marth should be in "wins regularly", given the limited pool of players that have ever won majors with any other character, but it's hard to disentangle that from how few players actually win majors at all, so I could see ending this top tier anywhere from after Marth to after Puff. But I just can't see Falcon belonging up there when Wizzrobe is the only Falcon to ever do it, and has only done it a handful of times (depending on which events you count, arguably only once). By results Yoshi is arguably better than Falcon in terms of threat to win, though I'm not saying I'd put Yoshi above Falcon on a tier list. Similarly, I have a hard time seeing ICs or Pikachu in the same tier as Yoshi or Falcon given their lack of results - while winning Summit is extremely impressive, it's a different sort of thing than winning a "normal" major, and Axe generally looks like less of a threat than Wizzy or aMSa. At the same time, I think your list correctly identifies a big gap between those two and Samus/Luigi, where the latter two don't seem close to having a shot to win an event, as it's rare for them to even make top 8. All that having been said, if you're going to have just 3 tiers, then I think bumping at least Falcon down to A tier would make sense, given what I said above.
@BboP_
10 ай бұрын
0:03 Intro 1:45 Fox 2:43 Marth 4:03 Sheik 5:30 Falco 11:10 Puff / Falcon 13:44 Yoshi 15:01 Peach 16:44 ICs / Pikachu 18:24 Samus 19:01 Luigi 20:12 Outro
@Toxspitdumo
10 ай бұрын
Ily
@KeyboardKlutz_0
11 ай бұрын
Where would you put Donkey Kong now that he has more solid placings and representation at the top level?
@squidfather
11 ай бұрын
I personally think Falcon should go into A-Tier... Especially since he does not have any winning matchups in S-Tier. Yoshi at least has favorable matchups in S-Tier. The line in the sand seems pretty definitive for Falcon, he absolutely does not beat S-tier characters.
@inafridge8573
10 ай бұрын
I fully agree. Falcon's almost complete lack of major wins supports this. IMO Yoshi would go over Falcon if it wasn't for Yoshi's evidently terrible Fox matchup
@Kazyek
11 ай бұрын
A few years from now, fox players will realize Pikachu is actually the best counterpick they could do versus Marth. Same jumpsquat argument, but on top of that the gameplan is closer to fox than sheik is; you just get punished way less hard and survive much more as pikachu vs marth than as fox, and have better edgeguard, with similar up-throw confirm but a slightly weaker neutral game (which doesn't matter THAT much considering how much more attempts you get due to the increased survivability)
@wavedash-
11 ай бұрын
Putting aside which of Pika and Sheik has a better match, Pika as a secondary can put you into some awkward counterpick wars. You're a lot more vulnerable to counterpicks (Fox and Sheik) using Pika.
@dkirby1906
11 ай бұрын
if axe picks up fox again it's joever
@user-nm9yd4wq4s
11 ай бұрын
i love rock paper scissors
@kellysmith7515
11 ай бұрын
Fox/sheik worked well for me for quite a while!
@kingkurtis
11 ай бұрын
This seems about right but instinctually I'd split it a little different recently I counted the mains of the top 100 didn't account for dual mains here so there'd only be 100 entries which means it is a little inaccurate but 27 fox 12 shiek 11 marth 11 falco 9 falcon 9 peach 7 puff 4 icies 10 "weirdos" to quote zain's tier list characters so Doc/Yoshi/Samus/Yink/pika that sorta deal Where characters weigh in the top 100 could bring room for discussion it's kinda clear there's a slight division between falco and falcon/peach/puff personally I'd just shift everything down by 1 and have puff falcon in A then yoshi peach icies pika in B, samus luigi C
@APhishyFish
11 ай бұрын
Mew2king tier list
@wonkywombat12
11 ай бұрын
fwiw, I dunno about fox sheik dual maining, because I think that in practice dual main fox loses to solo main fox, and honestly I think we've kinda seen this play out with leffen and plup. in theory the matchup spread is probably the best in the game, but I think that dual maining fox with a character that loses to fox (ie, not falco or marth) is kinda sus for that reason.
@nahometesfay1112
11 ай бұрын
I think Leffen has it down to a tee. Fox with a pocket Shiek for Marth. Plup leans more towards Shiek which helps in most match ups but hurts him in the fox ditto. Leffen has a super specialized Shiek that probably doesn't need more maintenance than the Fox Marth matchup.
@morgydee
11 ай бұрын
I'm a scrubby ultimate player but i love these melee meta discussions
@GUT5S
11 ай бұрын
W video, as always
@ashtar8630
11 ай бұрын
No expert however. I think the one thing that keeps Sheik from being rated that high is her horrible ICs matchup.
@SRM13
11 ай бұрын
Other than marth and fox, every other character has at least one bad mu
@vulblhotdiessfi
11 ай бұрын
marth has pikachu, fox has marth@@SRM13
@Nikkerman
11 ай бұрын
The one i'll predict will change is pika, given that quick attack is still a bit underdeveloped and swift with his 2001 a Space Odyssey ass controller might be the one to advance the metagame
@OverSizedPillow
10 ай бұрын
I think if the criteria is specifically looking at solo main you gotta still give it to falco over sheik and possibly even bump falcon above for having less full stop match ups at the top but if you are factoring in dual main, especially given relatively speaking how little upkeep sheik takes comparitively, sheik easily outplaces falco.
@BombchuLink
11 ай бұрын
How many more games will Hax have to lose to coolio and TPN before he bumps Link above DK and doc?
@WildlandsGG
11 ай бұрын
Mew2King was right all along
@mtarantino42
11 ай бұрын
Marth / Falcon dual main is lowkey crazy, maybe not at a top level because it doesn't cover Sheik as well, but at lower levels it can help cover certain playstyle that a Marth main might struggle against. They have the same jumpsquat and long dashes so they're not terribly different on that front. The biggest advantage is that Falcon just go in and fucking kill quick. Even if you can beat annoying floaties with Marth, just getting two knees instead is way easier. - A Marth main who salivates at the idea of getting a raw knee on Samus.
@feelsokayman5656
11 ай бұрын
Full tier list sensei
@recme_
11 ай бұрын
where is DK?
@catandfishfc
11 ай бұрын
S and A are all the characters that have won majors!
@catandfishfc
11 ай бұрын
The better and more technical the players become, the further down the tier list Puff will slide.
@joelsmemes4140
11 ай бұрын
People underrating Samus is criminal. She goes 45-55 with Fox and 50-50 with Marth and Falco. Any character that can contest with those 3 are better then DK who can get lamed out. even if DKs punish game is probably on par with Captain Falcon. If you can't win neutral it doesn't matter.
@alexanderlane7863
11 ай бұрын
I think DK has a superior punish game to Falcon, and he gets excellent combos and kill confirms against floaty characters too. with uncle punch dk doesnt have to get lamed out. people also dont consider how much UCF has impacted DK. he needs to have back facing, and in the past he couldnt consistently dashback, but now he can. it's a huge change.
@DreamTerrorist
11 ай бұрын
YES! Completely agree with Sheik as number 3. Sheik is similar to Marth in a lot of ways. Everything else is spot on. Optimal tier-list.
@benjoby057
11 ай бұрын
there will never be a 14th faulty mechanic (hax confirmed it in a stream yesterday)
@badilbonkins2709
11 ай бұрын
i get hax’s point abt sheik but he doesn’t really talk about mu’s against ICs and puff. also not too sure about falco puff being even??? imo it’s falco favoured (even tho my opinion is not very well informed)
@EA_SP0RTCENTER
11 ай бұрын
Hard agree. I don't think sheik should be above Falco
@SRM13
11 ай бұрын
puff beats falco 100% lmfao. If why else would mang0, even in his era of solo falco, only use fox for hbox, bro was doing falco dittos in 2018 and using falco for marth, but used fox for Jigglypuff
@badilbonkins2709
11 ай бұрын
@@SRM13 mb u rite
@HL-iw1du
11 ай бұрын
@@SRM13Because Fox is even better against puff
@qcmarcqc
11 ай бұрын
What about DK ?!?!?
@AnarchoPurp
11 ай бұрын
Interesting that Falco has jumped all the way up to 4th, from 7 years ago in your Daily Dot AMA when you put him at 8th
@nfn58
11 ай бұрын
Falcon in S is something
@rocketchris853
11 ай бұрын
where's mr game and watch
@cypi6210
11 ай бұрын
how falcon has risen
@nicholasdudkiewicz5153
11 ай бұрын
Its basically a rock paper scissors with shiek fox marth. Marth beats fox beats shiek beats marth.
@j0rd0
11 ай бұрын
I don't think Sheik being 3rd place is that crazy tbh, makes sense to me. Jmook makes the character look ridiculous. 👌
@LiquidenSSBM
10 ай бұрын
where's the full tier list though? where's the roy?
@dahuterschuter
11 ай бұрын
He has spoken.
@Aefax
11 ай бұрын
pikachu has a better matchup against marth than fox right?
@TheReverseWallyWest
7 ай бұрын
God bless everyone her ✝🙏❤🥰😊☺, Cool and chill vid 😎❤👍
@garydunham335
11 ай бұрын
I really dont understand the luigi argument because his recovery is horrible. But I don't have the most experience
@SRM13
11 ай бұрын
weak recovery but has a decent punish game, as well as a chain grab on fox and falco
@garydunham335
11 ай бұрын
I guess I dont get it because doc for example has a way better punish game, more chain grabs, and a pretty long wavedash, all with a way better recovery. I would really like to hear hax's thoughts on doc
@boredVEVO
11 ай бұрын
hax i love you but please get a better mic
@bradgrundy512
11 ай бұрын
Falcon will always be A
@bugs389
11 ай бұрын
Hell yeah brother
@HispanicatthediscoMTG
11 ай бұрын
Let’s gooooo
@Merkhanic
11 ай бұрын
Hax$ my guy you need an audio doctor immediately
@Akiak7
11 ай бұрын
who is stronger vs Marth, Fox or Falco?
@SRM13
11 ай бұрын
Fox
@ariesomega2487
11 ай бұрын
God damn he is back with a tierlist 😂
@Pslamist
11 ай бұрын
FINAL
@sBaby-en6tj
11 ай бұрын
wheres donkey kong?
@PoochyTreatEater
11 ай бұрын
Game & Watch = S tier
@Stioli
11 ай бұрын
My friend, you need a new mic, but good list.
@jeremykyle9352
11 ай бұрын
My only comment is you buggin putting Shiek above Falco.
@salvatore_slate
11 ай бұрын
UPDATE CHROME
@kratos223
11 ай бұрын
wheres doc
@megascrub3054
11 ай бұрын
I might be wrong but it just doesn’t seem right to me considering dual mains in this. I just wanna know what the character itself is capable of. Sure sheik’s marth matchup gives more incentive to play, but for consistency I’ll take the 50/50s from falco.
@elamucles2378
11 ай бұрын
Falco is trash imo puff should be above him.
@MasaKaneshiro
11 ай бұрын
x1.75 activated. Let's hear it.
@InstancesKMS
11 ай бұрын
WHERES MONKE
@ExilixE
11 ай бұрын
I tuink there should be more levels to this Fox, Marth Sheik, Falco, Puff Yoshi, Peach, Falcon Icies, Pikachu, Samus, Luigi
@nggaish
11 ай бұрын
Damn peach is weak now
@jebril
11 ай бұрын
As people learn to play the game better and not just hold down she gets less and less viable IMO. She's ONLY High Tier cuz of D-Smash and that move stops being as good once you learn to Amsa tech and not CC it. You can catch turnips and camp her our, she's too slow to even tech chase in most situations yet alone actually run in on anyone and it's not like she actually has good options for approaching.
@NashSuper600
11 ай бұрын
Sheik 3rd is so correct
@trixssbm
11 ай бұрын
Fix mic
@thatguy00271
11 ай бұрын
game has been out for 22 years, the tier list does not change!!!!!!
@MaligNyant
11 ай бұрын
Falco s is wild.... hes too far aheadd of the currve. Fr the elon musk of melee.
@Bread_Bug
11 ай бұрын
Ninth
@arc-sd8sk
11 ай бұрын
4th
@jebril
11 ай бұрын
First
@jebril
11 ай бұрын
Like fox.
@Jack-ps2ic
10 ай бұрын
i have always loved your videos and contributions to the community, and i always will. stay strong, you will make it through this era of melee man, please don’t give up, ur too cracked at all of it 🫡
@Jack-ps2ic
10 ай бұрын
people will seriously look back and ask why we didn’t adopt 1.03 sooner
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