This is becoming one of my favorite podcasts. It's not silly, or goofy, or full of young kids. These guys are real gentlemen talking about chess and personal issues. They approached this issue like real gentlemen. The didn't cover it up or anything. They pointed out what they knew and didn't know and was clear that they found the entire thing very shocking and disappointing. It's nice to see men who are honest enough to admit when they made mistakes, and where they made their own missteps.
@rtt1961
Жыл бұрын
Rational, straight-up discussion of a serious matter. Thanks.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
It was literally them distancing themselves from alejandro so no one blames them in any way more than it was meant to be educational
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Listening comprehension 2/10
@jamessheeran4277
Жыл бұрын
@@TheTastefulThickness there's always one
@davidhale8034
Жыл бұрын
@@TheTastefulThickness You literally don't know the meaning of the word literally.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
@@davidhale8034 Not an argument
@DrNerdinger
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, guys, for commenting on this in such a clear and considered fashion. I was one of the people who complained about your previous comment and it means a lot to hear you say all this in such unambiguous terms, especially knowing that you have worked closely with Alejandro Ramírez and consider him a friend.
@karatejoshb
Жыл бұрын
Glad you guys are addressing this. Hope you guys and everyone you know are doing okay
@sure7130
Жыл бұрын
No need to engage people taking a serious matter as an opportunity to troll
@انوشقزوینی
Жыл бұрын
@@nicbentulan booby Fischer
@phenix2403
Жыл бұрын
yeah, from the way he acted on screen I would have never thought he did this stuff. Even his "playboy reputation" is surprising to me
@kylen6430
Жыл бұрын
@@phenix2403 what signs would you expect to see during a broadcast? Ted Bundy could talk chess in front of a monitor and it’s not like you would have a clue
@markrobertson3054
Жыл бұрын
@@nicbentulan fischer was pedophile
@Roger-nk5ug
Жыл бұрын
No respect to her at all. It sounds like she is just trying her best to trash Alejandro. Who knows what her motives are?
@chrisburke7040
Жыл бұрын
I AM SO IMPRESSED by how you both have handled this from the beginning!! These are incredibly important issues and your initial patience and desire for more information followed by your detailed, balanced and open discussion of an absolutely IMPOSSiBLE situation to address - 2 well know friends and shocking allegations of sexual harassment - has been done as well as could be done. I will also second the comments that your podcast has quickly become my favorite! PLEASE continue to bring us the behind the scenes looks at all the issues that you cover. There will always be critics but the people who agree w/ your approach usually just agree and don’t post - I wanted to tell you there are way more of us than them - Best always to you both!
@aonutsihasnouith
Жыл бұрын
I love that your podcast tackles things like this and mental health. It’s rare and valuable to see men at the top of hyper competitive fields talk so openly about this stuff. I am subscribing.
@circles3446
Жыл бұрын
18:06 Fabi recognising some reasons why victims may not choose to come forward is definitely appreciated. It’s a very mature understanding and much needed in times like this…imIt’s easy for some in the general public to judge and question why so-and-so didn’t speak up earlier etc but an incident could be so traumatic that the victim just doesn’t want to relive the trauma or has just blocked it out for their own mental health reasons. In this context, really commend Fabi’s level of understanding here. Heartbreaking to see this unfold…
@ItsAsparageese
Жыл бұрын
Facts. Way too often, ignorance about that aspect of the issue taints what would otherwise be constructive and morally sound statements. These guys did well.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
There could be other reasons a victim might not want to go to the police in a case like this one.
@ItsAsparageese
Жыл бұрын
@@robbielock8422 Also very true
@robertgelblum5154
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this very thoughtful and informative discussion of a delicate but shocking scandal in the chess world.
@margeshphirke3534
Жыл бұрын
Really nice to see you guys finally address this issue properly, huge props to you! I cannot imagine it being an easy position to be in.
@ParanoidBishop
Жыл бұрын
Subject addressed with the seriousness and decorum it required, thank you. I fear, given the nature of the chess circuit, the problem could be much wider. Hopefully, this will encourage more people to come forward, and for chess to put in place measures to protect players.
@AG-ld6rv
Жыл бұрын
What do you mean "given the nature of the chess circuit"? Are you implying any organization with a majority of men will be rife with sexual abuse? Try that logic out but with a different group than "all men" to see how outrageous and insulting that is. This is straight up bigotry logic, getting upvoted by 31 people. Well, you know how it goes, everything people do - good and evil - is part of human nature, so it makes sense that many people would possess some forms of bigotry / statistical thinking without recognizing how unfair it is against the group that generalities are being applied to. Rise above that and judge individuals not groups. There is absolutely zero reason to suspect there is prolific sexual abuse throughout the chess community. Jesus Christ.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Sexual abuse could be much wider than 1 person? No way. You know there are also MURDERERS in chess too.
@hillsideonly
Жыл бұрын
Oh all male players must be sexist right, what a patsy.
@hillsideonly
Жыл бұрын
@@AG-ld6rv he's drunk the feminist kool-aid a little too much.
@saumyad7906
Жыл бұрын
US Chess allowed him to be coach of US women's olympiad team even after it was known to US Chess since 2020. Wow! They intentionally put the women in danger.
@Badministrator
Жыл бұрын
I think people don't realize how differently people can act based on who is around them especially predators. The ones that do this for so long have a sixth sense for who will oust them and turn them in. They aren't just bragging about sexual assault with everyone who interacts with them. We all need to be on the lookout for stuff like this and protect each other but we shouldn't assume that anyone who is friends with a criminal knows about or condones their behavior.
@Vedioviswritingservice
Жыл бұрын
Exactly like the serial killer whose neighbours all claim that he was the salt of the earth.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
You can rest assured that the victim in question here is quite well-protected.
@NormCantoral
Жыл бұрын
you are missing the point here. he isn't a criminal yet. he hasn't gone to court. there is no evidence. proof? not sure how you can just simply use the word "criminal" so lightly here.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
@@NormCantoral Of course he's presumed innocent but he was speaking about cases where that would be true. I did not see a direct accusation beyond the existing one.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
@@NormCantoral The problem is if he's innocent, multiple women are liars. Both can't be true. Take your pick on who you wish to offend.
@jackaskhim21
Жыл бұрын
Allegations do not equal guilt. Let's remember that.
@leonarderasmus6119
Жыл бұрын
Yes it is a shock. Alejandro would have been the last person I would have thought could do something like this. But looks are deceiving.
@ParnasoCultural
Жыл бұрын
Two gentlemen of chess, thanks for being so serious and respectful about this
@sayansingha8474
Жыл бұрын
Kudos to you guys for talking about it!!
@toodle361
Жыл бұрын
Wanted to hear your take on this. Thanks for addressing this issue
@fliesonfire450
Жыл бұрын
Any discussion of this that doesn't hold the St. Lous University and the chess club accountable for ignoring the issue for YEARS and thus enabling further predations ignores fifty percent of the issue. But its always the same story with these types of criminal acts. No doubt Alejandro is going to be rightly vilified and punished. But the people who gave him the position and power to abuse young women for years while having been made aware of his proclivities and actions will never have their feet put to the fire the way that they should.
@Solvir
Жыл бұрын
Did the University know anything prior to Jen’s statement? If they never received any reports, then there’s not much they could have done. But they did react immediately after Jen spoke up. With the SLCC it’s different, because they did receive reports and seem to have done nothing.
@fliesonfire450
Жыл бұрын
@@Solvir It says in the article that she told University officials as well as USCF and Chess club officials. Years before the tweet.
@rehtekhatake6973
Жыл бұрын
Yes. To be honest i was very disappointed they didn't talked bout it in their conversation.
@Lasselucidora
Жыл бұрын
Most daring Chess Pod. You talk about the Elephant in the room, all the time. Fabi has become my new Chess Hero. I want him to win. :D Cheating, money, and now sexual abuse. For me the Open is also a fight for Democrazy. And against lies and propaganda. And your interviews, letting interesting people tell their storys, helping them with good questions, are high journalistic quality. Keep it up. Thanks from Scandinavia!
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Democracy was never a good idea
@robdubent
Жыл бұрын
@@TheTastefulThickness you don’t like to think before typing things out to the world, do you?
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
@@robdubent How do you know my secrets
@holadebola
Жыл бұрын
Very respectful and mature discussion of a difficult topic. Well done!
@gw_leibniz
Жыл бұрын
Good discussion. But I wish you would've discussed the reports (WSJ) that the St Louis Chess Club sat on reports for years and did nothing.
@bio-miner
Жыл бұрын
Glad you guys addressed this. Would be great to see a podcast with Jen or another woman chess player discussing how the chess community should move forward with this.
@nimzomitch
Жыл бұрын
I think it would have been wise to bring in a woman's voice to this conversation
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Thats like asking, "how do we deal with murderers" lol.
@robdubent
Жыл бұрын
@@TheTastefulThickness 🙄
@ChessterMcdeath
Жыл бұрын
how about women not waiting 10 years and just going directly to the police.
@angeliqueazul8670
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for addressing this in an episode of its own. I really appreciate your discussion and the way you handled talking about this serious issue.
@thechesslobster2768
Жыл бұрын
Great job talking through this guys, I appreciate the patience to let things develop, and level headed discussion.
@4x4lo8o
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for addressing this
@vruatsa
Жыл бұрын
May I offer a suggestion regarding the monetization. I think you guys should monetize the video, be transparent about the earnings and donate the money to an organization that provides support to women victims of sexual assault. Thanks for the discussion and update on this matter, guys!
@willforrhall
Жыл бұрын
Its their work they should keep the money.
@hellostranger2012
Жыл бұрын
It's understandable, Cris himself being coach of women chess players it's so embarassing and shocking for him as well that his friend/colleague turned out to be such a predator.
@amitjosh79
Жыл бұрын
Bring Jennifer on the podcast for addressing larger ‘women in chess’ topic
@randybailin4902
Жыл бұрын
As there's a strong possibility of litigation, Jen has probably been instructed by legal counsel not to speak publicly on the matter.
@NormCantoral
Жыл бұрын
@@randybailin4902 but she tweeted publicly? hmm??
@skreyer
Жыл бұрын
What about the role of the Saint Louis Chess Club? According to the article Ms. Shahade came out with the allegations in 2020, and the club did not draw at least personal consequences to Mr. Ramirez within 2-3 years?? Instead there was nothing more than silence and bad jokes for this period of time! For me this sounds like ignorance eye closing and consequently the club put himself in a state of complicity.. And if today the Saint Louis Chess Club remains to be silent, it is an act of cowardness and disrespectful to all victims in this case. Simply not a good place for young women to learn chess! And a little bit unfortunate that you did not address this in this episode
@rehtekhatake6973
Жыл бұрын
100% agree. They should have talked about it.
@JVoidy
22 күн бұрын
St Louis chess club invites him to tournaments, which he still attends, and profits quite lucratively from. Pretty shameless.
@Matthew-bu7fg
Жыл бұрын
I thought you guys were rightly criticised a couple of weeks ago for the very minimal response to what happened (my reasoning of which I typed in that video). I think you guys deserve to be rightly praised for this video. Excellent response. You addressed points from a personal and professional perspective and looked at the bigger picture - that this isn't just one man and one instance, this is an issue which needs looking at to ensure the safety of young children (particularly young girls) in chess. I hope someone with the empathy and well-spoken nature of Fabi can be brought in to accelerate change at the grass roots level (football term, I don't know the chess equivalent).
@griffinq8003
Жыл бұрын
Why? Because they waited for more info to come out?
@rickdynes
Жыл бұрын
@@griffinq8003 EXACTLY .. & AMEN
@docoftheworld
Жыл бұрын
Unlike hikaru gloating and schadenfreude this is a solid discussion.
@floridaman6982
Жыл бұрын
Thats not what I got from hikarus video
@randybailin4902
Жыл бұрын
Some people are complaining about Jen Shahade going public and the manner in which she did so (i.e. Time's Up). Keeping it quiet and asking responsible officials to do something about the situation got her absolutely nowhere. She was told to call Alejandro and deal with it herself, which is asinine. What else would you have had her do?
@NormCantoral
Жыл бұрын
come up with evidence, have proof? the party she was at with Alejandro had more people there. did she tell any of them? did you stop to think that the officials she complained to might have asked her if she had proof? and if she said no??? what is anyone suppose to do? the US gov't, the state gov't, the local gov't??? they aren't going to be bothered without proof !
@AlexDings
Жыл бұрын
I found it very concerning that some people (on reddit etc.) immediately jumped to the conclusion that you two had to know about this and be guilty of covering it up. It's not that simple and in your position I would have found that very upsetting. Hope this episode puts an end to that.
@CrookedNose2131
Жыл бұрын
People love jumping to conclusions on the internet from the safety of anonymity.
@fal2218
Жыл бұрын
US chess community is very small. They definitely knew or at the very least had heard something
@Solvir
Жыл бұрын
Why would they know? This isn’t something people gossip about. The people closest to the abuser are often the last to know.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
@@fal2218 even finegold whose known them all for years was "taken aback"
@macchiavelli199x
Жыл бұрын
@@fal2218 as a woman, you'd be very surprised that even in a tight-knit community, this whole ordeal can go unheard for YEARS and I'm speaking from experience. That's why sexual assaults even in an immediate family scope can happen and go unnoticed, these predators don't just go everywhere being an open book, especially those who are cunning and very manipulative.
@a_doggo
Жыл бұрын
Thank you guys for covering this. It feels like nobody is willing to do it, and I think that's wrong. You guys are doing the right thing - I know he's friends with many American chess players, but this also means we need to be extra careful and always side with the victims - there's too many, and there's nothing to talk about. Everyone's known about this stuff for too long, and it's really not okay - minors are involved and it's bad.
@ricardosoca7380
Жыл бұрын
It used to be that the burden of proof was on the accuser and that people were innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
@Disentropic1
11 ай бұрын
It has at no time in human history been the case that potential crimes in cases with lots of evidence were not allowed to be spoken of as if they'd occurred. You do not have a right for podcasters not to support the victims of a crime, or to deny their freedom of speech on the topic. The only sense in which what you're saying is true is strictly in terms of the legal criminal procedure. So, unless Alejandro is being locked up without a trial, your supposed advocacy for rights is nothing more than a fundamental failure to understand what those very rights are.
@harryzefaa
Жыл бұрын
6:43 am in Athens, I just returned home from an all nighter at bars and clubs and now it is time for my favourite podcast
@orpal
Жыл бұрын
Hey guys, don't forget that episode is still up on Spotify. Also I know it's hard to imagine that this can happen in your community but I think any community allowing minors to be at parties with adults will have these abusers. It's disgusting but not surprising.
@tommonk7651
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the mature discussion, fellas. There is obviously no place in chess or in society for such behavior. My sympathies to any victims of such behavior....
@synchronium24
Жыл бұрын
I thought the "open secret" was that he was very flirtatious. A far cry from abuse, but when allegations did come out, people were less surprised because of that characteristic. EDIT: tbf Fabi does address this at 11:20
@LesserMoffHootkins
Жыл бұрын
All make chess players must be sexually neutral, or gay, or be banished from the game
@jackm4457
Жыл бұрын
The US Chess Federation moved to St Louis last July, so they should have been on top of this situation. What happened? Did Rex move to protect one of his "guys?" Did the USCF go along with Rex? There needs to be an external review of the inaction by the USCF. Some complaints vs Alejandro were known in 2000. It appears the USCF did nothing.
@AhPhoey
Жыл бұрын
In 2000 Alejandro was 11 years old. Who was complaining about him then? I'm surprised the Wall Street journal didn't run with this.
@jackm4457
Жыл бұрын
@@AhPhoey oh yes.. it was of course 2020. But always nice to have sarcasm. Unless adly, course, the type confused you so seriously that you weren't able to follow the argument.
@AhPhoey
Жыл бұрын
@@jackm4457 Why do you say "of course"? How did I know that you weren't telling the truth? And with all the craziness I thought you actually had new breaking news to share from his past. Turns out it was a ruse.
@jackm4457
Жыл бұрын
@@AhPhoey Wow... so you were not being sarcastic? You REALLY thought I was alleging sexual assault by an 11 year old Alejandro? Really?! wow.
@AhPhoey
Жыл бұрын
@@jackm4457 I never thought you were deliberately lying when writing that. You tricked us all.
@trevorochmonek9024
Жыл бұрын
I am happy to see that you discuss this important topic!
@Primus.711
Жыл бұрын
Why doesn't U.S. Chess insist on chaperones for social gatherings to make sure the underage players aren't served alcohol?
@kylen6430
Жыл бұрын
Alejandro was an adult and coach of the team…in a sense, he WAS the chaperone
@kc910
Жыл бұрын
If it’s not an official event, it’s not their place to have to do so. That’s the job of the parent.
@randybailin4902
Жыл бұрын
At the Sinquefield Cup in 2017 (I think it was), I sat in an analysis room that Alejandro Ramirez and Cristian Cirilla were running. Nothing struck me about Alejandro except that he clearly projected an attitude of superiority over the poor patzers who were honored to be in his presence. He even made a comment (kind of half-joking) to the effect that he could've been doing something else, but he was stuck in this room with us. Cristian seemed like a genuinely nice guy.
@EF-fc4du
Жыл бұрын
To be fair, had you been a 12-year-old girl, he would have been very happy to share time with you.
@Corteum
Жыл бұрын
So who actually knew about it and chose to overlook it and ignore it, and why?
@rehtekhatake6973
Жыл бұрын
Apparently the StL CC and the U.S. chess federation
@Corteum
Жыл бұрын
@@rehtekhatake6973 Absolutely fcuking ridiculous that these organizations might have known about it and chose to do nothing. There needs to be some accountability.
@NormCantoral
Жыл бұрын
that old saying comes to mind. When you point a finger at someone, there is three pointing back at you
@HenryTho
Жыл бұрын
Really appreciate this podcast
@pariza86
Жыл бұрын
I remember in the Saint Louis Chess Club broadcast of 2015 Norway Chess hosted by Jennifer and Alejandro (at that point it was pretty much always Jen and Yasser the hosts), people complained a lot about the quality of Jennifer chess comments and she was replaced by Tatev. Now we know why it must have been so uncomfortable for Jen to share screen with your abuser.
@abhishekkj9664
Жыл бұрын
what ? Shahade knew about misconduct then ? Ramirez made advances on her as well ?!
@Updog89
Жыл бұрын
@@abhishekkj9664 Yes, he assaulted her twice about 10 years ago, and when she informed her bosses at the STLCC they basically told her to deal with it herself and made it her problem. Once she learned that he has been abusing others, including young girls, she made the very brave choice to speak publicly about her own personal traumatic experience with him, which I’m sure she would have rather kept private. Leaders in the STLCC and UCSF knew about Alejandro’s proclivities for years and did little to nothing, so Jen was forced to alert the media in order to hold him and his enablers accountable.
@pariza86
Жыл бұрын
@@Updog89 yup, the assault was in 2011
@khann844
Жыл бұрын
@@Updog89 what did he do exactly? Generally speaking people are innocent til proven guilty right?
@fireballxl-5748
Жыл бұрын
Too little, too late for some of the young girls. I want to know why Jennifer was not (obviously not) taken seriously at her FIRST complaint.
@Truffle_Pup
Жыл бұрын
This is horrendous, I really like Alejandro. If these accusations are true it will be absolutely appalling.
@shatranj
Жыл бұрын
just read the article once
@bagelized
Жыл бұрын
You STILL like him after all this?
@Truffle_Pup
Жыл бұрын
@@bagelized I'm very much of the opinion everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But it doesn't look good.
@youtubecensoringcomments7427
Жыл бұрын
@@bagelizedlol yeah innocent until proven guilty
@evesolis6133
Жыл бұрын
Applaud you for covering this, considering that you are closely associated with Saint Louis Chess club and have the righteousness to make a public coverage of this.
@MrDonquichotte
Жыл бұрын
Not even a single word about due process and the the fact that this man's life is now completely destroyed in light of allegations? Does he not have any rights? Is this how it works now? When the sh*t hits the fan, you receive in a single instant accusation, verdict and sentence. Then that's it: you're cancelled. Isn't that a little fast, considering there may be strong disagreements nowadays on where to draw the line between "flirtatious" and "predatory"? I'm not denying there is one, but where is it exactly? Who can say? Don't you want to hear his side of the story? Or is this in itself "blaming the victim", as the phrase goes? The scariest part is I don't see anybody even mention this in the comments. Scary times, folks. Many congratulated Fabi and Cristian on the way they approached the issue; I get the position they're in, and I don't think I could have done better, but in the end it seems to me like they give in to the mob, like just about everybody.
@JVoidy
22 күн бұрын
There have been over 10 accusations. Yes, this is how it works in the modern age. If you are a public figure who has been doing things like this, expect it to blow up in your face one day. Karma sucks huh? Welcome to the real world.
@steelsteez6118
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for covering this properly now! I was one of the viewers that commented that you guys didn't address what the allegations were (and as a result I had to go to other KZitem videos to find out what the allegations were). I genuinely really like this podcast and want to make it my main source for chess news so I want to see you guys improve. Don't be afraid to provide the news at face value. I understand that Alejandro is your guys friend but the allegations are the allegations. Even if you initially need to take a completely neutral stance, that's totally fine so as long as you at least cover what the actual allegations are. Anyway, love this podcast and hope to continue seeing more content!
@iatin1883
Жыл бұрын
Imagine how Fabi and his friend feeling just by the news of sexual assault, and now Imagine how the victims would have felt for so long.
@BANKO007
Жыл бұрын
I didn't hear anything about what he actually did. The discussion was extremely circumlocutory. There are many degrees of this sort of thing and this leaves every possibility open for speculation.
@aki97
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if you already found out/read it yourself after you made this comment, but a WSJ Article was published back then which they referred to in this episode and is linked in the video description of this video. So, if you haven't found out yet, and are still interested, I think it might be worth reading it. Of course, it didn't touch on every instance of what might have happened (for several reasons), but it gives some idea of what he did in several instances.
@BANKO007
Жыл бұрын
@aki97 Thanks very much. So strange to see a sensible reply on KZitem!
@miguel-espinoza
Жыл бұрын
has this been reported to the police? seems to me (non us-citizen) that this is very illegal and reporting to the chess federation is not my first thought
@kc910
Жыл бұрын
That decision is up to each girl. The police cannot do anything except write a report documenting what they’ve been told unless one of the girls tells law enforcement they want to formally press charges against Alejandro.
@ItsAsparageese
Жыл бұрын
@@kc910 Yeah that's essentially right and very close to exactly right, hope it's cool if I piggyback to elaborate: For criminal law, victims don't actually make decisions about whether a case starts going to court, rather, the prosecuting attorney for the jurisdiction does. Sometimes (especially often in cases like this) a victim's personal testimony is the only or strongest evidence available, so if local laws say that's enough to indict and the DA thinks there's a case, then the decision _may_ in effect fall to the victim in those instances because it's their prerogative to decide to testify or not and no indictment can happen without them. But my point is, if the DA/indicting prosecutor doesn't think there's enough for a case according to local laws, then victims may have no options to pursue criminal justice at all. So yeah, you're spot-on that with SA typically a police report is all that can come of it. It's just that even if a victim wants to do all they can to make a criminal case, sometimes their local laws or local system doesn't even have a way for that to happen. I have no idea how it works in other countries when it comes to low-evidence crimes like SA. And idk how I'd fix our system. But to the best of my understanding, this is the main reason why our criminal justice system is a crap resource for SA victims.
@miguel-espinoza
Жыл бұрын
@@ItsAsparageese Thank you both so much! TIL a lot :)
@KillerChessTraining
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for having this conversation. Please consinder monetising this video and donating the proceedings to his victims.
@musical_lolu4811
Жыл бұрын
I see you guys's interview with Alejandro has disappeared on the channel. I wanted to look at it again. It's just downright unbelievable and shocking having the person I saw in that interview and have watched over the years potentially be involved in this sort of crap.
@joebloggs396
Жыл бұрын
I thought he was gay.
@snookslayer4559
10 ай бұрын
@@joebloggs396 Same
@hellostranger2012
Жыл бұрын
Waited for your thoughts regarding such horrific scandal
@melrakan
Жыл бұрын
If Ms. Shahade or anyone else involved in this (a representative, etc) has an interest in coming on the podcast to talk about this, that would make for a great episode.
@MrAlmaguin
Жыл бұрын
Legals first.
@MrFootofDavros
Жыл бұрын
You chaps need to get Hans Niemann on the podcast to get his views on the Ramirez situation. From what I remember you got Alejandro on pretty quickly after the accusations against Hans, so this would allow things to come full circle.
@user-sc4ne9zj2e
Жыл бұрын
Curious to see how you handle this terrible story
@StarPiercerAwl
Жыл бұрын
The anti-rizz demon strikes again
@user-sc4ne9zj2e
Жыл бұрын
Update half way through: good discussion
@poohoff
Жыл бұрын
What's there to handle? They didn't do anything
@zaksmith1035
Жыл бұрын
@@poohoff If there's a wrong set of actions there is a right one. They discussed what they knew openly. What else did you want from them?
@AroundWayOther
Жыл бұрын
appreciate the discussion
@abramisme
Жыл бұрын
Good job on speaking up I know you guys would have said something sooner if you any idea this was going on. Chess has no place for predators.
@chessbrahh2068
Жыл бұрын
Good job covering this important topic
@Updog89
Жыл бұрын
My heart breaks for the girls whose lives he scarred forever. I wonder how many careers in chess he ruined before they really began, and how much trauma he has dealt out in general. We really need to do a better job putting systems in place to protect chess players. It wasn’t just Alejandro who failed, it was a cultural problem in chess that made his victims feel powerless to stop him. Edit: I really appreciate that these discussions are not monetized. Very classy!
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
This woman is many things, but powerless is not one.
@Updog89
Жыл бұрын
@@robbielock8422 “This woman”? You do realize that there are at least a dozen different accusers at this point, including minors who had little to no recourse against someone of Alejandro’s stature. If you mean Shahade, she was literally told by her bosses to deal with it herself, so in that situation she really was powerless at the time. Not anymore, obviously. Which is why Alejandro is finally seeing some consequences.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
@@Updog89 Um how well do you know the women in question? Apparently not very. He'd have had better luck with a third rail.
@robbielock8422
Жыл бұрын
@@Updog89 I agree, she should deal with it herself :-)
@robdubent
Жыл бұрын
@@robbielock8422 screenshotted and ‘shared with the woman in question’ Congrats maybe you’ll be viral soon. 🧠
@gregvasser6944
Жыл бұрын
I'm here in St.louis & I'm hearing about this issue on the local news& this is a black eye on the sport especially if it's true the Chess club did nothing for years,I'm a Chess player & a fan of the sport.
@AnkhArcRod
Жыл бұрын
Basically, it is weird how law enforcement isn't taking this on as USCF is not capable of handling civil law cases.
@kc910
Жыл бұрын
It's not a civil law case unless and until someone files a civil complaint. As far as I'm aware, that has not happened at this point. Law enforcement would take it on if any of the victims decided to formally press charges against him. In order for the state to prosecute, they would first consider the conditions that should be met in order to do so under the standards for the prosecution function. Even if those conditions are met, it does not mean automatic prosecution.
@barts.8562
Жыл бұрын
Thank you, two Cs - appreciate your work
@biffboffo
Жыл бұрын
Chess has some really good people, such as these guys, and I guess some very bad people as well. Chess is life.
@sayandas5
Жыл бұрын
Chess is just a board game.. certainly not life
@biffboffo
Жыл бұрын
@@sayandas5 It's a metaphor
@I_Echion
Жыл бұрын
Chess is love, chess is life
@migmig9406
Жыл бұрын
@@sayandas5u r dumb
@CrookedNose2131
Жыл бұрын
Sport/business/education/(insert anything) has some really good people and I guess some very bad people as well. That's deep.
@ElEcodelTren
Жыл бұрын
come on guys, why you took down the podcast with Alejandro? i mean im not defending him but i think that was not necessary, i mean, is not your fault that he have made all that shit...
@Sam-qi2gw
Жыл бұрын
thank you for sharing your thoughts (still only a few minutes in!) - hoping there is criticisms of the SLCC... they are complicit in his actions
@ericakelly3209
Жыл бұрын
They are employed by the Chess Club, so that wouldn't be wise to take it upon themselves to address.
@Sam-qi2gw
Жыл бұрын
@@ericakelly3209 yeah ended up watching the full thing, lost a bit of respect for them in terms of lack of criticism for the SLCC. If my employer was complicit in similar actions I wouldn't hide
@daryab9416
Жыл бұрын
I don't think you should remove the video with Ramirez. I really don't see a reason to.
@randybailin4902
Жыл бұрын
They don't want to be seen being chummy with Ramirez. They were closer with him than they're letting on in this segment.
@boniface494
Жыл бұрын
This is insane. Even his students and minors? Wow
@williamh694
Жыл бұрын
They don't discuss two important issues: 1. When Shahade said Time's Up, did she mean that there were persons in authority who were not conducting proper due diligence to investigate the accusations? 2. Do chess organizations allow a situation to arise where an adult male is alone with a minor? If yes, is that being fixed?
@jesusmtz29
Жыл бұрын
So do we know if all this actually was true?
@guest_informant
Жыл бұрын
Monetise and send to an appropriate organisation.
@nohalfmeasures6
Жыл бұрын
No industry is safe from guys like Alejandro, even in a game as wonderful as chess.
@MrSupernova111
Жыл бұрын
Guys like Alejandro? Based on what? Hearsay? Where is the criminal trial? Remember your comments the day you're accused on wrong doing.
@noone-ld7pt
Жыл бұрын
@@MrSupernova111 I really believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and innoncence until proven guilty. But when multiple independent victims are making similar claims that are verified by text messages which has been checked and published by a reputable news source, I think it is pretty inaccurate to call it hearsay. When you add on the fact that Alejandro haven't even denied the accusations I personally think it's quite reasonable to draw some conclusions.
@MrSupernova111
Жыл бұрын
@@noone-ld7pt . Do you mean multiple people like that ones that hung the witches in Salem MA? Or the ones that lynched countless African American men in the past? That's the kind of proof that satisfies your legal requirements for criminal prosecution?
@MrSupernova111
Жыл бұрын
@@noone-ld7pt . Learn some history kid.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
@@noone-ld7pt Just like Kavanaugh? Lol
@wyatt807
Жыл бұрын
Hey guys, appreciate the de-monetization, but then you're just giving youtube free money. Instead, why not monetize and give the money to some kind of NGO which helps victims of this kind, or to a chess org promoting girls and women in chess. Thanks for addressing this and giving it the attention and seriousness it deserves.
@floridaman6982
Жыл бұрын
KZitem videos don’t make that much money… starting a small donation option from viewers would be an idea maybe
@FutureAbe
Жыл бұрын
Thanks, guys.
@VanilloSchachner
Жыл бұрын
Open secret or not, in the chess world as in the non chessworld, there are guys who go at least one step too far. I also know of people in my Nations chessworld who are like that, everyone knows but it is sadly enough tolerated or ignored in a way, so i would be not surprised if it is the same in the US
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Yes the world is full of sexual abuse. Ty.
@dylanmeyer6614
Жыл бұрын
Very honest. However, you did not speculate or criticise the US chess organisations. I can understand why you did this, but I hope that you ask these questions in private using the power that you have? There is obviously some blame there, and more could have been done?
@guest_informant
Жыл бұрын
No need to apologise or explain, the world needs far more due process and far fewer angry mobs.
@SLKCHESS
Жыл бұрын
Nice video as usual!
@vincentchen287
Жыл бұрын
How do you guys have a different set every time :)
@joshuabakradze5592
Жыл бұрын
Very sad! Love u guys!
@Siri-gy3yi
Жыл бұрын
I feel bad for Jen. She did not want to do this.
@NotQuiteFirst
Жыл бұрын
Imagine devoting your entire life to chess since childhood, only to nuke your entire career because you can't keep your hands to yourself. Bro better get practicing the beggar's cup gambit, he's gonna need it
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Are you new to sexuality? Never heard of people acting in self destructive ways for sex, huh?
@pranavjoshi6396
Жыл бұрын
Can you interview Jennifer on the next episode? It will be very important to get her perspective on this in detail. That is to say if she is ready and comfortable with talking about this.
@Corteum
Жыл бұрын
This. Get it straight from the horses mouth.
@AnkhArcRod
Жыл бұрын
That is such a ridiculous thing to say. You want a victim to be interviewed for your viewing pleasure? This is a law enforcement issue. They will handle it.
@Corteum
Жыл бұрын
@@AnkhArcRod I dont think it's for anyone's viewing pleasure. Not like that. Just to get clarification of what actually happened, etc. But of course, we should respect her decision if she chooses not to be interviewed. It's completely her choice.
@thesarasohrabi
Жыл бұрын
She has mentioned that she's been harassed... but no, proper perspective is required
@pranavjoshi6396
Жыл бұрын
@@AnkhArcRod I don't want her interview for my viewing pleasure. That's a ridiculous thing to say. I want to hear her side of the story and want can be done to stop incidents like these going forward.
@thesarasohrabi
Жыл бұрын
Man you both sound so sad towards the end... the whole thing sucks
@TheUniverseExists
Жыл бұрын
I’m going to be honest. Given his demeanor I would have though Ramirez would be way too timid to SA anyone. But I guess I was wrong
@youtubecensoringcomments7427
Жыл бұрын
Was it proven?
@buildtolove
Жыл бұрын
never be alone with a woman / or man to prevent any accusation (true or not)
@mattwilliams7454
Жыл бұрын
It's crazy that nobody was going to do anything until Jen spoke up
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
Even Jen didnt do anything yet. Shes filed no police report and taken zero legal action.
@TheTastefulThickness
Жыл бұрын
This is like getting a flat tire and calling the hospital
@Tcheera
Жыл бұрын
I think that when they say it was an "open secret" I think the closest take that Fabian got was that it's an open secret in some circles. If you think about the issue with Hans -- it sounds like very high level current SGMs mostly all seemed to know but either older chess players or non-SGMs had no idea. That's not a huge circle. I'm guessing like with what happens a lot with SA that the people who got the reports (like St Louis) all knew once it was reported and a lot of female chess players talked about it like "avoid that guy" -- women do that all the time. Women are also gaslit a lot about SA to minimize it like with Jen -- like people will say why not call the police? Those people have no idea how police would respond to a kiss slammed against the wall -- they will do nothing. Only the underage girls would have a chance if they aren't terrified of coming forward, and they are often very afraid especially if they were drinking underage -- that they will be the ones to get punished (and they might). So it's just so murky... And yeah women will not trust to tell someone's "friends" about it. It says nothing about your character, but it is just too scary.
@ItsAsparageese
Жыл бұрын
Yeah for real, it's shocking how much misplaced faith a lot of people here seem to have in law enforcement systems. In most cases even if officers do want to help, the legal logistics just don't work. SA is an inherently low-evidence crime and it's challenging to investigate/indict for it under even the best of circumstances. And yeah exactly, then a lot of people go the other way and minimize it because if it's not an all out r*pe-tier crime then some think it's no big deal. I'm relieved to see the core influencers in the chess community make efforts to be good advocates for and listeners to women and other vulnerable people about topics like this. I've only been down the chess rabbit hole for several months now but I see a ton of good character and strong values among the most publicly visible top players. The behavior they demonstrate, shunning those who predate and making a point to be welcoming and safe to vulnerable players, is a vital catalyst in helping keep the community moving in the right direction.
@Tcheera
Жыл бұрын
@@RL.777 I know lots of people with vices and people who dress any which way- none of it is an excuse or open invitation to sexual assault.
@Tcheera
Жыл бұрын
@@RL.777 That's an idiotic analogy.
@ItsAsparageese
Жыл бұрын
@@RL.777 Pretending that a victim's clothing has any bearing on assault is like pretending someone's masturbatory habits have any bearing on their risk of being blinded with an acid attack. Your comment reeks of anti-data ignorant puritanical victim-blaming.
@Tcheera
Жыл бұрын
@@RL.777 An analogy about a cigarette in a freaking combustible garage is not a "fact" related to sexual assault. That's not a feeling. It's a fact that they are not the same thing.
@ronjohnson9690
Жыл бұрын
He may have not been fully aware of his indiscretions. Our principles are based on our upbringing and peers. It is the heat of the moment taking control and it can be compartmentalized so the actor is blinded by lust. Obvious from the last six years it has been brought to the attention of the public in mainstream life. He is either very blind or full of duplicity and it is a shame he put himself into the position of entrapment. It is no longer a word of advice or a slap on the wrist he will receive. It will ruin his reputation and career. He had a quick enough mind to have known better, but the pride in one's self can lead to the big fall as a stumblebutt.
@haroldwhitney6130
7 ай бұрын
High quality podcast, that's for sure.
@jdmaines2682
Жыл бұрын
"[S]omeone I have no reason to defend" is disingenuous to say the least. It doesn't mean you know or did know. But you cannot say you have no bias in favor of your own employee, colleague, and friend. It's not nuts to inquire whether you knew.
@davidhale8034
Жыл бұрын
You didn't use the whole quote, that is truly disingenuous!
@jdmaines2682
Жыл бұрын
@@davidhale8034 it never changed the context of what Caruana said. Caruana acted as if he was stunned that someone would ask about it. So no, it is not disingenuous to accurately quote the player.
@David_7171
Жыл бұрын
Crazy that Alejandro was woman Olympic team coach in 2020 !!!! How did that happen ??? How was that even allowed to happen??
@khann844
Жыл бұрын
Hindsight is 20-20 I bet.
@jamesduggan7200
Жыл бұрын
You know, I'd bump into Bill Lombardy (may he rest in peace) when he was "the only Grandmaster member of the [Manhattan Chess Club's] Board of Director" and I'd ask him about his time working as Fischer's assistant during the Reykjavik match in '72. He was always very friendly and sometimes shared a good story (tho often over my head), until the second match versus Spassky, in the former Yugoslavia. The US government was unhappy with the venue and indicted Fischer over it. Afterwards when I'd ask Bill about Bobby he would say he knew him only briefly, and peripherally at that. That's okay. I understood, but it does go to show you the boundaries of friendship.
@martinpaddle
Жыл бұрын
they didn't say they knew him only briefly, they said they were friends
@bootyholelover5639
Жыл бұрын
I could definitely see people that knew Alejandro not believing the allegations and completely backing him. You have to wonder how many people are going down for this.
@mikecabral1579
Жыл бұрын
The alleged cheating scandal was said to be an open secret. The way so many GM’s had stated that the issue was well known among them but never made public might have influenced some that this issue was known but not made public. I however, don’t think that this issue especially involving minors would have had any cover from those same people. It is in my view sad for the St Louis chess club being slow to react to the first report.
@robberttube
Жыл бұрын
Shouldn't this be #026? The title says #025, just like the last episode. Also, episode 25 is still not on Apple Podcasts; I'm used to it being a bit behind, but not by this much.
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