CORRECTION: Throughout the section on deduction, I separated validity and soundness into two distinct concepts. I did this for explanatory reasons to give clear examples of different combinations of valid/invalid sound/unsound. But strictly speaking, an argument is sound exactly when an argument is valid AND with true premises. As such, there isn't actually such a thing as a sound argument which is not valid. I think my explanation makes the concepts clear, but I regret not summing up the section on deduction with this point.
@bencrossley647
Жыл бұрын
It was clear. Though, if possible, you could annotate the video with a 2x2 table showing the impossibility of a sound and invalid argument.
@reellezahl
Жыл бұрын
@Another Roof Excellent video! As a mathematician I have been trying to explain this to people for years, now I have a video, to which I can point people! What was that *challenge* you mentioned at the end? Is there a link to the problem description?
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
@@reellezahl Thanks! My previous video about Countdown, Britain's Oldest* Gameshow, contained a challenge problem for viewers!
@SioxerNikita
Жыл бұрын
That is actually an incredibly interesting thing you bring up. The concept of a "sound argument". Layman wise it is essentially when the arguments makes sense, and the conclusion following from the arguments makes sense in context from the premises and the arguments. They are obviously almost never valid, as in completely true, since we as humans and our reasoning is... well flawed... But because we are flawed we use perfect concepts to describe something imperfect, but pretty close to the concept. Like well... Perfect, valid, true, false, etc. Despite in many cases perfect is obviously wrong, since something perfect is unlikely to ever exist. Something valid has the same issue, so does true and false statements. Essentially outside of an abstract system like math, these statements will always have some level of imprecision :P
@wafikiri_
Жыл бұрын
@YeYaTeTeTe The term you allude to is "logical." Logic does not care whether the premises are true or false, believed or not. Logic does not tell you whether a conclusion holds true. Logic does tell you that, under the hypothesis that the premises be true, the logically obtained conclusion would also be true. Absolute truth does not exist and is not assumed anywhere in logic.
@sh33pboi
Жыл бұрын
I think my favourite form of reasoning is abduction. That way if people try to disagree I have a hostage.
@rmsgrey
Жыл бұрын
I prefer induction - you can get more power out of it and don't risk a prison sentence...
@landsgevaer
Жыл бұрын
Deductions are cheaper to get though...
@micayahritchie7158
Жыл бұрын
This comment thread is the greatest thing ever made by 3 authors in the history of mankind
@SgtSupaman
Жыл бұрын
@@micayahritchie7158 , aw.. I was too late to be inducted into that group...
@bryanreed742
Жыл бұрын
@@rmsgrey get power out of induction. Nice.
@joeblow411
27 күн бұрын
Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson went on a camping trip. After a good meal and a bottle of wine they lay down for the night, and went to sleep. Some hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful friend. "Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see." Watson replied, "I see millions and millions of stars." "What does that tell you?" Watson pondered for a minute. "Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Horologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, I suspect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. Why, what does it tell you?" Holmes was silent for a minute, then spoke. "Watson, you imbecile. Some bastard has stolen our tent."
@nova-witchwood
23 күн бұрын
from OVER them? Who??? Moriarty? Hahahahaha! And John is so clueless! 10/10!
@DavidMartinez-ce3lp
20 күн бұрын
😂😂
@Maxsmack
8 күн бұрын
Good one
@taraiji
7 күн бұрын
i’ve never actually laughed at a comment on youtube before this 😭
@TomJakobW
5 күн бұрын
It would be funnier/actually clever, if the tent part didn’t just come out of nowhere. You didn’t mention they went to sleep in a tent. Maybe they are sleeping outside?
@cadekachelmeier7251
Жыл бұрын
AnotherRoof DESTROYS Sherlock Holmes using DEFINITIONS and FORMAL LOGIC.
@tomholroyd7519
Жыл бұрын
Eh, nothing counts unless you do it in non-binary logic. Ordinary binary logic is full of paradoxes and inconsistencies, a fact Sherlock knew all too well. The so-called "informal fallacies" (such as the relevance fallacies) are only "informal" in binary logic. In 3-valued logic, the informal fallacies become formal fallacies. So when you say "FORMAL LOGIC" you really mean non-binary logic. Which is constructive, and formal, and better than binary logic. As Spock would say, "My logic is superior to your logic." Plus you know using words in all caps means you are a bot
@3snoW_
Жыл бұрын
@@tomholroyd7519 3 valued logic? What 3rd state is there besides "true" and "false"?
@khiemgom
Жыл бұрын
@@3snoW_he probably means statement that arent true or false, which can happen ig u wont encounter it in every life so who cares
@jeremydavis3631
Жыл бұрын
What is there besides true and false? Paradoxes. There's a branch of logic called constructive logic, which accepts a conclusion as true only if a specific example can be constructed. Classical logic says that proving that a statement is not false is enough to prove that it is true. This idea is called the postulate of the excluded middle, since it assumes that there is nothing between true and false. But constructive logic doesn't use that postulate, since using it would mean not having a specific example to verify the conclusion. (For example, the argument for God's existence briefly discussed in the video is a valid deduction that it's impossible for some first cause not to exist, but it fails to supply a specific entity that must be the first cause. So constructive logic agrees, given that the premises are true, that a first cause can't _not_ exist, but it refuses to go so far as to say that a first cause _does_ therefore exist.) In that way, constructive logic has three truth values: true, false, and neither true nor false. This has nothing to do with probability or fuzzy logic. The third value allows constructive logic to engage directly with paradoxes without falling apart. It's possible to use it to prove that a statement like "This statement is false" is not true and is also not false, without either of those conclusions disproving the other. In classical logic, the best we can do is assert axiomatically that paradoxes don't happen, which is a bit awkward because paradoxes do in fact happen within logic itself.
@3snoW_
Жыл бұрын
@@jeremydavis3631 If you're adding a "neither true or false" value for statements like "this statement is false", for completeness shouldn't we also have a "both true and false" value that would apply to sentences like "this sentence is true"?
@larryp5359
Жыл бұрын
The problem with abduction being, perhaps, the most common form of reasoning is that we humans tend to be pretty bad at judging probabilities. It's hard to identify the most likely conclusion if your likelihood estimates are noisy.
@kazedcat
Жыл бұрын
The biggest problem with abduction is confirmation bias. When we form conclusions we almost never reason to disprove our conclusion and only think of arguments that agrees with the conclusion.
@khajiithadwares2263
Жыл бұрын
Deduce, generalize and lack substance, Induce, observe and lack implementation Abduct, and well, you've got a lot more problems. Too certain someone is guilty, leaving no room for any other freedom of exception. Induction > reductive logic and uninteractability (+observation/-implementation) Abduction > probabilistic and unexceptionalism (+verdict/-possibility) Deduction > abstract statistics & stereotype. (+group/-representation)
@IN-pr3lw
Жыл бұрын
Town of Salem game
@Silkie_Dragon
Жыл бұрын
@@khajiithadwares2263 My abductive reasoning infers that you are clearly a witch, because I live in the 1800s and only witches are this smart
@arcticpossi_schw1siantuntija42
Ай бұрын
probabilites are fun to think about, but really difficult.
@CaesarsSalad
Жыл бұрын
At 7:40 it would be worthwhile to point out that false premises can lead to true conclusion. E.g. "All giraffes are mortal" "Sokrates is a giraffe" "Therefore Sokrates is mortal"
@CrockHoax
26 күн бұрын
Are you implying that there are immortal giraffes?
@CrockHoax
26 күн бұрын
Ohhhhhhh you're saying Socrates isn't a giraffe. That is a much more understandable mistake
@memersnas8684
21 күн бұрын
@@CrockHoaxit’s alright, it’s not exactly widely known that giraffes aren’t mortal
@detroitpolak9904
19 күн бұрын
Spelling Socrates that way allows me to deduce you are unfamiliar with Socrates, deduction, and spelling (he even spelled it correctly FOR you)
@CaesarsSalad
18 күн бұрын
@@detroitpolak9904 Your comment tells me that you deduction skills suck ass.
@roelant8069
Жыл бұрын
Another group of frequent ring removers are medical professionals like nurses. The ring can protect any pathogens and filth trapped under it from being washed off. So while my mother was a frequent wedding ring remover, she is not an adulterer
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
You also can't wear metal objects while getting an x-ray or being near an MRI machine. So that's another reason why medical professionals or just any scientists might remove their jewlery.
@TheLostBijou
Ай бұрын
Good point, however the coloration difference would come (usually) from exposure to sunlight, outdoors. Therefore a nurse who presumably only takes her ring off indoors might not have a discernible untanned region.
@userequaltoNull
Ай бұрын
Also industrial workers and shop hobbyists. Reason being: Degloving injuries are quite unpleasant.
@macmcleod1188
29 күн бұрын
She "may" not be an adulterer. And she "may" not be a frequent adulterer. On the other hand she could have been schtupping a couple of the neighbors and the milkman and the postman and various repairman while wearing her ring. As she could have also done in a one-night fling before you were born. Also, though I have no hard data, I believe that married men remove the rings to hide their marital status in order to have illicit sex more often.
@solsito24
28 күн бұрын
my first thought is she could be a chef
@John73John
Жыл бұрын
Regarding the Sherlock Holmes scene when he was introduced to Mary: Something a lot of people miss about this scene is that he _intentionally_ got Mary's past wrong in an insulting way so that she and Watson would get up and leave. This is because he doesn't like the idea of them being together. Right after they leave, the waiters bring food to the table even though they hadn't ordered anything -- Sherlock must have ordered food before they arrived, and told the staff something like "A pair of friends are going to sit down briefly and then leave again, wait until after they leave to bring my food."
@taloutezero
29 күн бұрын
I agree with most of what you said except the last part. It's his favorite restaurant. He knows exactly how long his food will take to get there and knew he only needed x amount of time to chase them away lol I bet he got that down to the second, if not millisecond
@John73John
29 күн бұрын
@@taloutezero That may be possible, but I doubt it. I work at a restaurant, and in my experience it's never that precise. The time it takes for the staff to come take the customer's order, the time to relay that to the kitchen, how long it takes to prepare, how long it takes to bring it out to the table, all those times are variable depending on a lot of factors that Sherlock has no way of knowing ahead of time. Also when a customer has already placed an order and then two other people show up, the usual procedure is that the waiter will hurry over to take their orders as quickly as possible so they can start getting it prepared, because they like to bring the whole party's food all at once. (at least, that's how it worked in every restaurant I've been in) They were sitting there for quite a while and nobody came, likely because the staff had already been told that they'd be leaving again soon.
@taloutezero
29 күн бұрын
@@John73John I agree with what you said but I think its also both. He probably knew how long it would take to prepare his food. I doubt Sherlock would let his food get cold while trolling Watson and Mary so I think he told them the others wouldn't be eating AND he timed the foods preparation. In those days, would it have been easier or harder to find out which staff was on duty? I can't imagine that Sherlock has no idea who is in the kitchen of his favorite restaurant (especially on days he goes there) or how long stuff takes to make there.
@John73John
28 күн бұрын
@@taloutezero I don't think it's possible to conclusively deduce one way or another (see what I did there?) but it's a lot more than just "who's in the kitchen tonight?". Maybe one of the other customers ordered a complicated dish and the chef's attention was occupied for an extra couple of minutes before he could start working on your order. Maybe the waiter takes your order and then decides to visit another table and take their order as well before relaying both to the kitchen. Maybe the carriage John and Mary arrived in was a minute early or late because of some condition on the road that Sherlock didn't know about. Any one of a hundred things could happen to mess up the timing. Real life is way too complex and chaotic to make a prediction of something like that and get it right down to the second. He could get a general idea (within, say, 5 minutes on either side of a bell curve) and well within the time the food would still be hot if it's kept covered.
@taloutezero
28 күн бұрын
@@John73John I guess I'm deriving my conclusions from who he is as a person. If Sherlock Holmes has deemed a place his "favorite" out of all similar places, I judge by his self love and indulgence that part of the reasoning for him is the timeliness and predictability in their service. I could be wrong and it could be a hectic unorganized environment but considering he thinks the universe of himself, I can't imagine he would go some place prone to delays in his orders or very untimely service. I understand that reality can be chaotic and nothing is guaranteed but this is one of the few "public" (I know its a fancy reservation only place but people who aren't in his inner circle are considered public) spaces that could get Sherlock to leave his room AND dress up. I don't think my conclusion is far off.
@SioxerNikita
Жыл бұрын
Just had a bit of a thought. If deductive reasoning means the conclusion necessarily follows, then deductive reasonining is ridiculously rare in general. Even if you find the bloody knife, do a DNA check and the suspects DNA is on it, and you have several witnesses, that does not "deductively" follow to him being the actual perpetrator. The witnesses can remember wrong, the DNA on the knife could've been placed there earlier, etc. So the conclusion doesn't logically follow. I like this, very very interesting video
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Agreed! That's why I discuss how usually abduction and induction are the only available options. Deduction is mostly reserved for the abstract like in philosophy and mathematics. Thanks for watching and sharing your comments in the live chat!
@KohuGaly
Жыл бұрын
Yes, deduction pretty much only happens with abstractions. Almost nothing in real life is certain enough to produce sound deductive arguments. It's fairly common in computer programming, and even there it's only sound as long as bit flips are not involved... which they often are....
@SioxerNikita
Жыл бұрын
@@AnotherRoof I was glad to watch, even if I was late :)
@SioxerNikita
Жыл бұрын
@@KohuGaly Welcome to cosmic radiation, and nearby radiation, and radio transmitions, and... I'll just stop the list here :P Bit flips is the bane of programmers until they actually invented a way to kinda deal with it XD
@Ansatz66
Жыл бұрын
We might call it rare, or we might just be using it so thoughtlessly and automatically that we do not notice it. If someone says that all the food is in the fridge, we should not need to ask where to find the eggs because we can use deductive reasoning to conclude that the eggs are in the fridge, yet that reasoning is so obvious and effortless that we do not pay attention to what we are doing.
@T33K3SS3LCH3N
Жыл бұрын
Great summary. This has always bothered me about detective stories. My reaction always was "you can't know that, there are so many other explanations why that may have happened!" Abductive reasoning is of course essential for many practical solutions, but detective stories often apply it in pretty far-fetched ways that only work because the author wants it to.
@gen1exe
Жыл бұрын
yes, me too! you can think of other possible explanations, but of course in the story the detective is right and everyone is like "wow, you're a genius!" Grr.
@pysq8
Жыл бұрын
So you love Pitch Meetings, too 😂 ..."so the story can happen"
@TheThreatenedSwan
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 You: Source? ChatGPT: I made it up The actual issue is semantically the word "deduction" includes abductive reasoning. In fact that's the way the word is mostly used
@thomastakesatollforthedark2231
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4really? You making that thing think for you?
@TamissonReis
Жыл бұрын
That's why I hate Agatha Christie. The whole storyline goes on giving hints and motives, and, at the end, Poirot says IT WAS HIS COUSIN THAT DOESN'T EVEN APPEAR IN THIS BOOK
@TheBrowncoatcat
Жыл бұрын
My favourite "Doctor Who" quote, from Patrick Troughton in 1967 is "Logic, my dear Zoe, only allows you to be wrong with more authority."
@chaotickreg7024
Жыл бұрын
I love the one about why he doesn't carry a weapon "because they might think I'm going to hurt them"
@arcticpossi_schw1siantuntija42
Ай бұрын
@@chaotickreg7024 That's just so true
@Duothimir
19 күн бұрын
@@chaotickreg7024The Doctor himself may as well be a weapon. Even discounting how many times he's harmed/killed someone through his intellect and charm, he's also been throwing hands since the First Doctor. Hartnell defenestrating Roman soldiers was such a bizarre image.
@jcsjcs2
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for making this clear. It always drove me crazy that if there is a link of half a dozen steps, each with a 70% probability of being caused by the previous, then it is concluded that the solution must be so and so. In reality, we are already down to 12% probability.
@moth5799
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 ChatGPT isn't always an accurate source. It wasn't able to actually point out a single instance of Holmes using deduction.
@bestaround3323
Ай бұрын
Remember 95% accurate is 50% accurate as it is either accurate or inaccurate
@tomlxyz
Ай бұрын
@@bestaround3323 someone who doesn't understand probability
@asherkime5910
Ай бұрын
@@bestaround3323do you mean it’s as good as 50% when your attempting deduction? I would agree if that is the case
@bestaround3323
29 күн бұрын
@@tomlxyz no, that's just how it feels whenever a game says something is 95% accurate
@bennettpalmer1741
Жыл бұрын
I think it's worth noting that all of these types of logical reasoning are closely related. Abduction is just Deduction with the word "probably" covering for otherwise invalid or unsound reasoning. "A: Toast is made in a toaster B: This is toast conclusion: This was made in a toaster" is an unsound deductive argument, but "A: Toast is (normally) made in a toaster B: This is toast conclusion: This was (probably) made in a toaster" is a perfectly reasonable abductive argument. In addition, Abduction and Induction are also strongly connected to each other. For example, "A: The road is wet B: Rain can make the road wet C: Rain probably made the road wet" is an abductive argument, but how do we know that rain is the most likely explanation? Well, if you look at a bunch of examples of things making the road wet, you'll find that the most common one is rain. We've just concluded a general rule from a bunch of specific examples- that's induction. Nearly all abductive reasoning works this way. Induction doesn't make any predictions on it's own: it's value comes in contributing evidence to an abductive line of reasoning. Abductive lines of reasoning rely on having some knowledge of what is or isn't likely, which only induction can provide. Without using both, neither is particularly helpful. Side note, nearly everything relies on inductive and abductive reasoning. We can't be deductively sure that the universe will exist tomorrow, for example, or that the laws of physics will be at all the same. We must rely on inductive reasoning to conclude that, since the universe has continued existing every day so far, and the laws of physics have remained consistent for as long as we've been aware of, that they will remain the way they are as a general rule. And abductively, that means that the universe will probably exist tomorrow.
@2adamast
Жыл бұрын
I don't know when toasters became popular, but I am certain Sherlock didn't use one.
@JorgetePanete
Жыл бұрын
its* own
@Silkie_Dragon
Жыл бұрын
@@JorgetePanete cretin
@kenmashikin
Жыл бұрын
We cannot proof the "soundness" of deduction. Because facts and observations might always be wrong. However, the "validity" of a deductive argument can be verified. Also, in mathematics and philosophy, deduction is very much "valid" and useful tool.
@frazfrazfrazfraz
Жыл бұрын
Well there's also not much reason to think about if the laws of the universe stopped working. There isn't anything we could do to stop it, and we would be fucked if it happened, so there's not much reason to spend time and energy doing anything but acting as if it will continue existing.
@jacmkno5019
Жыл бұрын
This calls for a new Sherlock Holmes series, where the guy is just like Saul in Better Call Saul, a faker detective, who always comes up with supposedly brilliant deductions which frequently end up being wrong, but the guy conspires creatively to make himself look good every time, in ways that one could call "amazing", achieving some level of success.
@DanteYewToob
24 күн бұрын
That’s basically Psych… lol
@nikhpaints
24 күн бұрын
There is an old movie called without a clue.... In which Sherlock is an actor and Watson is the one who solves the crime with Sherlock being the face and voice of Watson
@bobrong9645
Жыл бұрын
I'm very pedantic myself, but I'm a language teacher so I'm personally pretty okay with a word having a general public meaning different from its academic meaning. I do understand what you mean though, for as incredible as it sounds, I once had to explain (or tried to explain anyway) to a creationist that "theory" in "theory of evolution" doesn't mean "hypothesis".
@landsgevaer
Жыл бұрын
Hmm, "hypothesis" is not far off, since scientific theories are never proven. Newtonian dynamics are useful and taught in physics class, but that theory is nevertheless wrong. Similarly, the theory of evolution is at least likely to be incomplete. But the term "theory" is indeed not intended as "speculation".
@ayumikuro3768
Жыл бұрын
@@landsgevaer Newtonian mechanics isn't wrong, it's incomplete. It breaks down at high speeds, but within it's boundaries it's close enough. Newton himself knew his theory was incomplete. The same applies to General Relativity, it breaks down at really small scales. To be fair though, the term "theory" has become somewhat muddied in academia. I blame string "theory" for that (more like string conjecture). Theories are hypotheses that have been tested and validated so often, it would take an enormous amount of evidence to refute them. So all theories are hypotheses, but not every hypothesis is a theory. And that's a simplification, most theories are a set of hypotheses.
@landsgevaer
Жыл бұрын
@@ayumikuro3768 I would argue that Newtonian mechanics is fundamentally wrong still. It treats space and time wrong (fibre bundle vs. Minkovski space). You can't repair that by simply adding something while retaining its foundations, so I cannot call that "incomplete". I agree it is a very decent approximation, and as a framework it is very useful, but it is fundamentally wrong nevertheless. But setting all that aside, since you agree that theories are not unlike hypotheses, for the purpose of this thread we agree. Thanks. 🤝
@TheThreatenedSwan
Жыл бұрын
Evolution doesn't mean evolution. Almost no one means evolution by evolution
@TheThreatenedSwan
Жыл бұрын
@@landsgevaer In the debates what is usually referenced is "Darwinian evolution" as a particular theory which is straight up wrong on a number of points. What matters in science is predictive validity, and no scientific theory can be "complete" even for a small domain not least of all because things can be re-conceptualized
@Ansatz66
Жыл бұрын
Someone ought to mention the concept of "mathematical induction" and how it is actually a type of deduction. Maybe that's obvious to everyone, but it feels like the sort of thing that may need to be said in every discussion of the distinction between deductive and inductive reasoning.
@wafikiri_
Жыл бұрын
There are three, not two, types of reasoning: deduction, induction and abduction. Sherlock used the third. So do doctors when diagnosing.
@pmnt_
Жыл бұрын
it's weird that Mathematical Induction is the proper English term. the German term is more or less "complete induction": you start with inductive arguments, but show that it is the only induction possible, hence completing the induction to a deduction.
@JM-us3fr
Жыл бұрын
It’s probably called “induction” because it somewhat feels like inductive reasoning. The proof sort of emerges out of our recognition of the general pattern.
@MagicGonads
Жыл бұрын
There is a sense in which mathematical induction is not deduction (and this is very confusing and there are lots of schools of thought on this): Mathematical induction is not possible in a first order finite axiomatisation, essentially it is NOT deductive in a comprehendible first-order theory. You need to impose the existence of the inference for every numeral acted on by the function symbol in the theory, and there are infinite numerals. (to be coy: it's not a premise, and it's not a valid deduction from the premises, yet the general rule is 'induced', then 'abducted' into being applicable). This doesn't prevent induction from being *constructive* though, as we can use computers (or equivalently, recursion) given infinite resources to be able to make conclusions from the infinite first order theory, but to do this we have to discard double negation elimination, and then we have issues of consistency (without DNE maybe some contradictions you could have arrived at now can't be arrived at). But, even an infinite first-order theory is not enough to constrain the suitable models of that theory, what we conclude from mathematical induction is not that the conclusion applies to *all* numerals, but just the ones are successors of our base case. Or what this is really saying is that you cannot write the conclusion of mathematical induction in first-order logic, as otherwise you need infinite terms in the single statement of your conclusion. When we make a computer evaluate the statement we are already making assumptions about the model in order to even run the program. So there is some meaning to discarding mathematical induction in some deductive scenarios. Obviously this only about first-order logic, higher order logic is its own can of worms that I can't say much about.
@NateROCKS112
6 күн бұрын
@MagicGonads the first-order induction schema is still true in nonstandard models of arithmetic, since of course that's what it means to be a model of PA. "For all x, P(x)" really does follow from P(0) and P(x) => P(Sx) (where P is a first-order formula with one free variable). The reason this works is that nonstandard naturals have infinitely many predecessors. Hence around nonstandard x there is a copy of *Z* akin to {..., x-3, x-2, x-1, x, x+1, x+2, ...}. The model, however, is forced to assert that it's turtles all the way down for that segment, meaning P(x) really is true. Of course, second-order induction ends up failing in such a nonstandard model, precisely because second-order logic -- basically, a logic that can see subsets of the model -- can "observe" the gap that is created. Summing things up, though, we have that mathematical induction is a deduction purely because we assume it as a premise for every first-order formula. Lastly, as for making induction constructive, there are no issues of consistency compared to PA. First-order classical PA is strictly stronger syntactically than first-order Heyting arithmetic (PA without excluded middle).
@KingMB_XJ_Official
Ай бұрын
So he doesn't deduce, he just does fancy assuming.
@Mwrp86
29 күн бұрын
He has superpowers essentially
@Soapy-chan
22 күн бұрын
and he's pretty lucky to be right
@Scum42
Жыл бұрын
I whooped and hollered alone in my apartment when you cited House as the best modern Holmes adaptation. Yes. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
@KSignalEingang
Жыл бұрын
Only narrowly beaten out by Jeremy Brett's Holmes for all-time greatest IMO.
@2adamast
Жыл бұрын
Just because you're not the doctor in the room
@mhholmez
14 күн бұрын
@@KSignalEingang I agree with you. AnotherRoof's ranking is based on the degree of sensibility and reasoning used, but if you are talking about who the best "Holmes" is, then Jeremy Brett is, in my opinion too, the best of them all. He is the Sherlock Holmes of the books.
@Kerostasis
Жыл бұрын
I would argue Sherlock Holmes does a lot of Inductive reasoning as well - depending on which interpretation of the character you are watching, I guess. In many versions of Sherlock, he spends a lot of off-camera time, and just a tiny bit of on-camera time, exhaustively studying various obscure events to form inductive conclusions about the results, unrelated to any particular case. Then later when he encounters a similar event during a case, he is already equipped to pull out a pre-considered inductive rule and apply it to the observations made. I suppose you could reasonably argue for either "induction" or "abduction" as a label for that final step, but it's the previous inductive step that occupies the character's time even though it's the last step that is shown on camera, due to being more exciting.
@lweyhacker5557
Жыл бұрын
11:48 "Who am I? Socrates?" made me laugh
@valkopuhelin2581
Ай бұрын
It's a brilliant comment because it flips over the expectation of usually people wouldn't mind being compared to Socrates.
@naturallycuriousashley
28 күн бұрын
The ring deduction always bothered me, because I fidget with my ring constantly, switching the finger it's on. So glad I found this video!
@jffrysith4365
Жыл бұрын
I completely agree with the conclusion, its also why a "theory" has come to mean a hypothesis instead of something that has overwhelming evidence. (I don't like to say proof outside of deductive math reasoning as it's only guaranteed to always work and be true in hypothetical math land)
@jffrysith4365
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 might wanna also mention the "previous answer" that chatgpt gave.
@jffrysith4365
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 how? do I come over to your house and check what you asked chatgpt before asking that question? the answer chatgpt gave you says, "and there are numerous examples in the stories where he uses deductive reasoning to solve cases, as I mentioned in my previous answer." Which means this wasn't the first question. I do understand that he does employ deduction many times as it is very hard not too, but sometimes an example outside "as I mentioned in my previous answer" is quite useful...
@qy9MC
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 Chill dude, he just wanted to know the previous answer. Your making drama over it. To be fair I also want to know the previous message so I can understand him.
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
@@DMW4 ChatGPT won't always give the exact same answer, also ChatGPT is a hilariously bad source to use.
@MooImABunny
Жыл бұрын
Good video, that was interesting. I'd say it's not misappropriation to call what Sherlock does "deduction" or "logical" because these words were used by people way before philosophers logicians and mathematicians formalized them to mean more specific things. I'm a physicist, and I can't really complain when crystal healers talk about "negative energies", because people used energy to mean liveliness-stuff, and generally vibe, along with 'the ability to do stuff'. It is fair to ask people nicely in your case, to say "hey, here's a better word for what you mean, now we can tell these things apart", I think most people, if you had their attention, would say sure, sounds good to me. Others will probably call you a nerd and ignore it lol
@2adamast
Жыл бұрын
Indeed, for example "allergy" has gotten today a stricter medical meaning than originally stated or in common use
@MooImABunny
Жыл бұрын
@@2adamast huh. What did it mean in the olden days?
@mawillix2018
Ай бұрын
Intolerance.
@arcticpossi_schw1siantuntija42
Ай бұрын
@@mawillix2018 I guess that would make me allergic to the manosphere. Makes sense, that terrible community irritates me just as much as almonds or birch pollen
@ansambel3170
Жыл бұрын
"i'm a matematician! Of course i'm pedantic" might be my favourite abduction of the video.
@dpatts
Жыл бұрын
Oh man, when you were doing the "wet road" and "rained last night" diagrams I wanted to reach through the screen to yell "Noooo! The size of those circles are misrepresentative of what would most likely happen in the real-world!" and then you went ahead and adjusted the sizes of the circles. Waves of relief washed through the ether and natural order was restored to the universe. Liked the yellow Alex easter egg. Also the old-timey reel of RDJ Sherlock to get around copyright. And the quick "formal" suit side gag. And the Denis, Fincher, and Ritchie references to incorporate your love of film into the vid. Great way of teaching deductive, inductive and abductive reasoning. The whole video was bloody excellent. RE: part 2 puzzle video I suggest you do it separately to your next planned video. For the simple reason that we get more videos. The yt algorithm is a fickle beast sometimes, with a large element of luck, so if you can do two quality videos instead of one, you're effectively doubling your chances of an algo-boost. More opportunities of engagement without impacting quality, and you're keeping the content recent + frequent with viewers.
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your comments! I've said it before elsewhere but my original channel idea was film review / analysis, and I think my desire to chat film creeped in here! Yeah still mulling over the Countdown idea. Lots to discuss. The algorithm shined on the last one, maybe I'll earn its favour again!
@dpatts
Жыл бұрын
@@AnotherRoof I would watch that film analysis! Name suggestion: Another (box office) Booth
@Yotanido
Жыл бұрын
20:13 "What if Sherlock isn't doing any of the three types of reasoning?" I've always seen the "whatever remains" part to actually mean "whatever remains", not just what is known to you. That would make this statement actually true, and if Sherlock isn't using any of the three types, then he must be using something else. That something else is still part of "whatever remains" in my interpretation. Though I can definitely see how it could be interpreted differently.
@rmsgrey
Жыл бұрын
Well, "if I have correctly eliminated X, Y and Z, then the truth must be contained in the set of possibilities excluding X, Y and Z" is pretty solid (mostly because it gets around the possibility that one of X, Y or Z should not have been eliminated, and doesn't say anything about how broad or narrow the remaining field of possibilities is)
@tranngockha6562
Жыл бұрын
To me. This is simply indicating that the writer doesn't know how to write detective stories. So I look it up and... yeah. The directior doesn't like detective stories
@Silkie_Dragon
Жыл бұрын
Off the top of my head, I’d say the problem with trying to eliminate possibilities in an environment where the possibilities aren’t outset for you, is that you never know if you have in fact eliminated all other possibilities, meaning you’re still at the mercy of your own biases and/or limitations.
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
@@Silkie_Dragon Hence why almost all good detective stories are set in some sort of location where things can't change like a moving vehicle or a remote mansion. And in a lot of other cases there's some other key limiting factor that narrows down the possibility space.
@Vgamer311
Ай бұрын
@@Silkie_Dragonbut our limited understanding of the world does not erase the general truth of the statement itself. “If you eliminate all impossibilities, whatever is left is true” does not say anything about a human’s ability to correctly ascertain that truth. I could even break it down into a deductive argument. P1: Something happened P2: Anything that did not happen could not have possibly happened Conclusion: when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (…) must be the truth.
@titou7367
Жыл бұрын
The "Who am I, Socrates?" ended me 😂
@zodfanza
Жыл бұрын
The term deduction can be used by bad faith actors just like a lot of logical fallacies so it's important to be able to dissect the elements. Thank you very much for this!
@zimzob
24 күн бұрын
By “deduction” Holmes really means “massive quantities of cocaine”
@joaopedrosousa5636
Жыл бұрын
19:32 In the books Sherlock Holmes actually researches a lot of what he uses to reason when investigating. I remember faintly he testing different types of tabaco for something. Maybe that was on that UK tv show, I don't remember. I think in the books it makes clear he studies and examines a lot of behavior of things and people in his 'spare time', outside of investigations.
@dizwell
Жыл бұрын
Wow. You do have a knack for producing hugely thought-provoking videos and making the abstruse absurdly approachable! Yet another of yours I thoroughly enjoyed ...though I feel bad at having never grasped the formal differences between the types of reasoning before. But hey, my degrees are in the liberal arts, so ...par for the course, I guess😅
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for watching! I hope you make videos spanning the liberal arts some day because I'd love to fill gaps I have in my knowledge there...
@dizwell
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 Well, the obvious first response is, "citation required". If there are many instances of Holmes actually deducing something, let's have at least one specific instance, rather than mere assertion. ChatGPT should be better than that! Second thing to say: I don't think it matters. The significance of this video, for me, is that it lays bare the existence of three distinct types of logical reasoning and then goes on to explain how you tell one from another. In and of itself, it is sufficient to its purpose and needs no reliance on Conan Doyle specifics to make it's point.
@dizwell
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 Your main point is simply wrong then. The video's title is a mere assertion, not a logical deduction, induction or abduction. The best you can say is, "it's wrong", therefore. It's not an example of a logical fallacy at all.
@dizwell
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 The rather obvious point I was making is that since the title is a mere assertion and not a logical deduction, it cannot be a logical fallacy. It is merely correct or incorrect. Like your assertion that it is a logical fallacy. There's nothing logical about asserting something. Therefore mere assertions cannot be logically fallacious. As you put it, a "logical fallacy is flawed, deceptive false **argument**". If I say "the sky is polka dot pink and purple", that isn't an argument. It's a statement. It's an incorrect statement, of course. But it's not a reasoned argument.
@dizwell
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 If you had confined yourself to saying it was incorrect, I wouldn't have argued with you on the point. Your claim of 'logical fallacy' was what I took issue with. I would (and did!) ask you, however, to back up *your* assertion with a citation. Which you failed to do. If Holmes frequently resorted to the use of deduction, cite me one example of him doing so. You were the one making that claim. Regardless of your source, you need to back it up. The entire video has made a good fist of explaining why your assertion is incorrect, after all. A simple citation can refute that claim.
@francissandow5211
Жыл бұрын
First, you are the best, I really understand how set theory defines numbers now. I read Godel, Etcher, Bach, but I really didn't get the proof until you explained it. Your reference to "Pigs On The Wing", that is golden! Please keep making these!
@samtheman2831
Жыл бұрын
wait a minute... this isn't about sherlock holmes... you've tricked me into learning logic!
@DavidMartinez-ce3lp
20 күн бұрын
We've been bamboozled!
@not_David
Жыл бұрын
24:50 this is exactly what I was thinking as I was watching this section, glad you touched on it. Though I will say, the closer I get to the end of my phd the more I think its not necessarily true that abductive reasoning is *not* the approach taken by science. It is probably the one we'd like to avoid using if we could but as you say right after, its often all we have, and thats true in science as well and is often the motivator for further research, typically once the technology or theory (or funding...) becomes available. But I love this one, always up for a good math+popculture merger.
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Good to hear from you again! Yeah totally agree! Abduction to me is nearly always the first step -- find the patterns and plausible explanations, then seek to investigate to prove or support later.
@kevinwest7111
Жыл бұрын
Well, they always try to make film/TV adaptations entertaining, which sadly means turning Sherlock Holmes into a magician. But after reading the original stories by ACD I get a feeling that Holmes does use deduction, alongside the other methods. Firstly, he is introduced as a consulting detective, which means he mostly applies already solved cases to fresh ones. This gives us the idea that his reasoning must be pretty solid. Secondly, many of his conclusions are: 'you have a tattoo that could only have been made in China, therefore you have visited China'. Unlike on the silver screen, he often seeks more evidence before jumping to conclusions; but of course he also theorises a lot. That is to say, SH stories have a ridiculous amount of mistakes for a detective series, so I wouldn't be surprised if ACD didn't really know what deduction is, or wanted to give an impression that Holmes simply cannot make a mistake, by choosing the most foolproof way of reasoning. The video itself is great, and it explains the difference between the three very well, and with visual representation. Many thanks!
@joanalbertmayolcolom
Жыл бұрын
This channel is a golden mine, love it! Last week I was explaining formal logic at class and Sherlock Holmes came instantly as an example of deduction, that's if you take the crime scene as a closed system with relations of literary necessity. Seeing this video I think I will restrain myself to syllogisms next time to not cause any confusion hehe 😅
@stephenjames9962
Жыл бұрын
Excellent video, thank you! Very well worded conclusions in last 4 mins. Even deductions can be tricky. All bachelors are unmarried men. Sarah is a bachelor of science. Therefore Sarah is an umarried man of science. Meanings are slippery and can alter from premiss to the next, sometimes subtly.
@Ramblinman26
6 күн бұрын
Something I’ve always appreciated about The Mentalist is that what Patrick Jane does is never called deduction, it’s consistently referred as “guess work”.
@magpieMOB
Жыл бұрын
This is leading me to the headcanon that Sherlock doesn't actually know what the difference is between forms of reasoning - he has a great track record of pulling it off, but he's actually really bad at explaining how he arrived at his conclusions. It's already canon that Sherlock doesn't bother to learn about things that he deems irrelevant to him - like the movements of celestial bodies - maybe he doesn't care to know how his own mind works. I feel like that would fit in with his existing character flaws
@One.Zero.One101
25 күн бұрын
I think that's just a BBC thing. In other versions that I've seen, Sherlock is pretty well-versed in general knowledge and current events. Not knowing how celestial bodies work makes him look like an uneducated pleb.
@nova-witchwood
23 күн бұрын
@@One.Zero.One101I mean, then if he ever had a case relating to astronomical stuff in the slightest he’d be screwed to hell and back. Hahaha…
@lukeleslie9648
28 күн бұрын
19:05: I am so glad you brought this up. SO many people just seem to not remember that what is considered "scientific fact" can change based on new evidence.
@icycooldrink6085
25 күн бұрын
Not to be overly pedantic, but words have specific meanings, especially when discussing science. In science, a "fact" is generally understood as an observation or a measured value that has been repeatedly confirmed and accepted as true by the scientific community. For example, the statement "Water boils at 100°C at sea level" is a fact, based on repeated observation and measurement. The theory of thermodynamics helps explain why this fact holds true under specific conditions. When you use the phrase "scientific fact", it would seem you actually mean hypothesis or theory. These are open to change over time as new facts are discovered, and logical reasoning identifies incorrect assumptions and conclusions. The theory is modified, leading to correction over time. The facts themselves don't change. We could discover an entirely new interpretation of gravity that fundamentally changes the way we understand the universe, yet the scientific facts we currently have would necessarily comport with this new gravitational theory for it to be considered true. In other words, in science, a fact (accepted by repeated measurement and validation) is a form of evidence, and evidence isn't open to change.
@lukeleslie9648
25 күн бұрын
@@icycooldrink6085 This is a great explanation. That is what I meant. I find that a lot of people forget the different between scientific theory and scientific fact. This has caused trouble in the past; the house arrest of Galileo for instance.
@derpy9452
10 күн бұрын
@@lukeleslie9648 A theory can be as fleshed out as the theory of evolution, or the theory of gravity, but they can still be classed as "theories" in science, due to their ever-expanding index of new discoveries. This becomes particularly annoying when people (usually theists) use it as a way to strong arm debates, "its a theory, therefore not real", something along the lines of that.
@quietcontraire
Жыл бұрын
New viewer here. I loved that you used the blackboard as a visual aid as you explained each type of reasoning. It has helped me to very clearly discern the differences between each. The examples you provided through text and speech were also very helpful. I think I have a sort of mixed learning style; I cannot solely rely on visuals, speech, text, or personal experience by themselves. Some combination of these must all come together so that I can truly understand a topic. You've done well by combining the 3 of 4 of them. Hopefully one day, I can experience these reasonings myself so I may understand fully. I hope that in the more videos I watch from you, you continue this mixed style of instruction. It fully encompasses all different learning styles at once, leaving no one unaided. Again, thanks so much. I wish you the best. I hope you do your best. So far, so good! 😁
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching, and welcome! I actually think this video is my least diverse in terms of props and visual aids. My earlier videos are very tactile with lots of physical props. Also while "learning styles" are a bit of a myth, I think having a range of models / diagrams / aids is good so I'm glad you found it helpful!
@nightfox6738
Жыл бұрын
I love these videos. Another Roof is my favorite new(ish) math channel.
@leelee1286
Жыл бұрын
This was fascinating! Not surprised that you’re a teacher/tutor, this was really skillfully taught. Many thanks!
@rissahoo
12 сағат бұрын
Oh, wow. Such a source of frustration to me. Thanks for explaining that the reason I never really understood what “deductive” means is because people almost always misuse it. I think the true meanings do matter because (in the US)… well, if people use these words at all, it’s usually some sort of power play. Like, they don’t remember anything except that deduction is supposedly the “best” type of reasoning, so they say something is deductive to imply that it’s unassailable, not that it’s sound. Whether or not I say it out loud, it’s going to be a huge help for me to be able to say, “Aha, but what you’re talking about isn’t actually deduction!”
@beastzerkerjet
Жыл бұрын
Anything that produces toast is a toaster, your air fryer produced toast therefore your air fryer is a toaster
@emperorbma
Жыл бұрын
You know what they say. All toasters toast toast. - Mario
@cinderwolf32
29 күн бұрын
Toasters cook things into toast I cooked chicken nuggets in my air fryer My chicken nuggets are toast
@tulliusexmisc2191
28 күн бұрын
In the video, Alex talks. In the video, Alex talks about how he toasted. Conclusion: Alex is a talkie toaster.
@sonicaddiction
27 күн бұрын
So glad I'm not the only one who thought of this! :)
@jacquespoulemer
26 күн бұрын
Greetings Dr McGraw, The curse of being a Mathmematician among Innumerates. Just discovered your channel. I'm a Some-College 72 year old avid reader who always had some math facility. Without Pedantry we'd all be Footless and falling on our.... Again thanks, I'm looking forward to more. All the Best, Jacques Mexico retired but no tired
@fiona8081
Жыл бұрын
This ALWAYS bothered me!!!! Thank you for making this video to validate me
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Always glad to see my pedantry is shared by others 😅
@fiartruck0125
6 күн бұрын
I like the contrarian argument (I forget where it traces - in my head it's Dirk Gently, but I could be wrong) that goes like this: we usually deem things "improbable" based on experience, but often things are called "impossible" out of a lack of imagination. Therefore, if anything, we should tentatively rule out anything we find improbable and seriously consider alternatives, no matter how impossible they seem at first blush.
@Vearru
11 ай бұрын
I am so glad you explained the unsoundness of the wedding ring argument in this video, because the moment I heard it I was questioning it’s soundness but without realizing that’s what I was doing, I just figured I must not know something about how removing wedding rings effects the rings. This confusion happens a lot for me and when the argument comes from a figure of intellectual authority I will remain skeptical of it but assume I must’ve simply missed something that they know and I don’t. Now when I get that feeling I’ll do more than simply remain skeptical since they might be intentionally glossing over information to support their argument, and I’ll see if there is any reasonable explanation for the steps that I have not been shown.
@thejonjon5000
3 күн бұрын
The silent film adaptation was brilliant. I’m glad you couldn’t show the original clip.
@SgtSupaman
Жыл бұрын
As a Sherlock Holmes fan myself (I consider Doyle's stories to be my favorite literature), I've always kind of thought this was funny. Sherlock is pretty much always just making assumptions not logically deducing facts. It doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the story or the character, though. This was an interesting dive into what each term specifically means.
@SgtSupaman
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 , ChatGPT is not an authority on anything. To illustrate this, I just went to ChatGPT and told it Sherlock Holmes doesn't use actual deductive reasoning. As you can see from the following response, it agreed. You are correct. Pure deductive reasoning is only applicable in certain contexts, such as formal logic and mathematics, where the rules of logic are well-defined and the premises and conclusions are absolute. In that sense, it is true that the deductive reasoning used by Sherlock Holmes is not the same as the pure form of deductive reasoning found in formal logic. However, it is still common to refer to Sherlock Holmes' use of logical inference as "deductive reasoning" in a broader sense. Sherlock Holmes uses deductive reasoning as a shorthand to refer to his process of elimination and logical inference, even if it does not fit the strict definition of deductive reasoning. This is likely due to the fact that deductive reasoning is a commonly understood term that conveys the idea of logical inference, even in situations that do not fit the definition of deductive reasoning. Overall, while the terminology used to describe Sherlock Holmes' methods may be imprecise, it is clear that his approach to investigation involves a combination of induction, abduction, observation, and intuition, all of which contribute to his highly effective and influential methods.
@jammin023
Жыл бұрын
I wish your videos had existed when I was trying to study formal logic at uni with the world's most boring lecturer. You managed to explain this far more clearly in 30 mins than he did in an entire semester.
@yourpalbryan1442
Жыл бұрын
The line about "once you eliminate the impossible yada yada, whatever is left no matter how improbable is the obvious conclusion" leads me to believe that Sherlock is using the process of elimination and I'm gonna try and show that with the wedding ring example. We have a dead woman in the middle of an abandoned house looking like a suicide amidst a string of suspicious suicides, Sherlock finds her ring is polished on the inside and she is wearing a fancy coat. I think in the episode itself someone says she's far from home, Sherlock uses this to eliminate the chance that she's local so now she's a traveller. she's pretty young looking, her outfit is matching and fashionable which means she's either going for a meeting or something else within the city. Sherlock uses the added fact that the ring is polished on the inside due to frequent removal. A traveller with a fashionable matching outfit that frequently removes her ring- Therefore she's an adulterer. How he decided she's a serial adulterer is a whole other thing, but basically my point is that he takes all the things he sees and one by one eliminates them based on the facts given until it lands on the most logical reasoning. Edit: If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I think this makes the most sense to me
@benjaminpedersen9548
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 Maybe he does use deduction, but the answer to your question is still no. It would not be a logical fallacy. Someone being wrong rarely constitute a logical fallacy, nor is their claim necessarily a logical fallacy (which I assume is what you really meant). They may have simply got the facts wrong. This would also be the case here. To be logically fallacious, he would have to contradict himself, but he does not. You are bringing in new information to claim that he is wrong.
@moth5799
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 ChatGPT is a very unreliable source. There are not "many instances of Holmes using deduction." Process of elimination is not deduction.
@alexh8754
Жыл бұрын
@@moth5799it is, if you have actually eliminated everything else and can show that
@moth5799
Жыл бұрын
@alexh8754 Yeah, except its not possible in the real world to eliminate all but one possibility. So Sherlock Holmes' process of elimination cannot be deduction.
@alexh8754
Жыл бұрын
@@moth5799 john had enough money to buy 1 of 3 things from the store. he bought one of them. it was definitely not 2 or 3. therefore item one was the item john purchased. item one was the only item capable of doing such an action at a crime scene! it was a very particular antique keypad unlocker. one of one. the inventor passed away as soon as he made it and it was unseen until john bought it. good work holmes!
@Jotari
24 күн бұрын
"Once you're eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbably, must be the truth. So far we ruled out the possibility that the suspect walked to the crime scene, for he has no legs. Now we just need to rule out the possibility that he drove, cycled, teleported, garnered the assistance of aliens or remotely commit the crime using telekinetic powers." "Do you really think all of that is likely?" "Likely, no, but possible, yes!".
@VonTimmelandDer42
Жыл бұрын
so what you are saying is: sherlock uses "the science of abduction" to solve his cases. Very fitting, very fitting indeed.
@huhneat1076
Жыл бұрын
My mom after hearing me explain this: "I gave birth to you therefore-"
@rmsgrey
Жыл бұрын
I detect an unsound argument (but only abductively, not deductively)...
@beegman27
Жыл бұрын
24:50 i would argue that the abductive approach is often used in archaeology wherein there is scarce information to base conclusions on. While induction isnt foreign to this science, cases in which it can effectively be used are not common.
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
Archaeology also often borrows methods from the humanities.
@mawillix2018
Ай бұрын
It was (probably, maybe) used for religious purposes.
@ulrikof.2486
Ай бұрын
In linguistics, especially when it comes to genealogy of languages, abduction is often done in the form of pure speculation.
@sleepyheadsarah
8 күн бұрын
I hear you, "cereal adulterer" joke. I see you and I respect you.
@andresfontalvo17
Жыл бұрын
"I'm a mathematician, of course I'm pedantic" haha that sounds about right
@bookcat123
2 сағат бұрын
You know, I accidentally insulted my philosophy professor in my first class by challenging an argument as contrary to “basic math” - he agreed that it wasn’t valid because the logic didn’t work, but insisted it wasn’t math 😏
@Lrapava
Жыл бұрын
Honestly, before the self-promotion segment, I didn't even notice your subscriber count. The only thing that made me a little "suspicious" was that camera placement looks a little odd, but never really payed that much attention to it. Anyways, I find your videos very educational, I hope you will reach a wider audience soon!
@axestump3590
Жыл бұрын
I haven't learned about what abduction is while I was in school/university. And I think we should teach about this and give it some attention not just put spotlight only on deduction and induction. Even in math when I read some math proof, it feel like proof writer already know the answer and they use deduction to proof it later. (And I always left with an unanswer question "what lead them to this answer in the first place?" and I often can't find it becuase spotlight was put on the finished product, the deductive proof itself)
@towers4506
14 күн бұрын
The elusive fourth reasoning type is “seduction”
@crosscirfians6236
22 күн бұрын
It makes sense that they used the word deduction, rather than abduction. It's better to say he's amazing at deduction rather than say he amazing at abduction. Might get stares for that.
@egilsandnes9637
Жыл бұрын
Let me just start by saying I absolutely loved your Pink Floyd reference! Nice video! I really liked your dicussion in the end of the viedo. I want to add that: yes, it might be problematic to use words with a spesific meaning in science to mean something else colloqially. Generally it's not a problem though. This is how language works. If words didn't evolve and change meaning we wouldn't have all these amazing and useful languages. It's not a problem when we in every day converation use the word "theory" to mean what scientists would call an hypothesis. But it IS a problem when people don't understand that theory does not mean hypothesis in scientific terms as "the theory of evolution" or "the theory of gravity". ("But that is just a theory!") That's why I always get more interested in a debate when the debattants start by making some definitions. You might not even agree on how different words SHOULD be defined, but it doesn't really matter if you just can agree on something "for now". If my opponent define atheist as someone who "hates God", that is very, very silly, but I can technically live with my opponents stupid definition, as long as I can define my self as a PNCOTEOAG (person not convinced of the existence of any gods) and use that in our debate. (Of course you never get any way if you go completely Jordan Peterson though, and ask people to define every single well defined word when people disagrees with you)
@orisphera
4 ай бұрын
The following may be better as separate comments, but I've decided to make it one comment: I remember finding that “deduce” doesn't necessarily mean deduction. I used “abduce” (invented by me) instead. (Now, I've realised that that probably was induction, so I was also wrong in that way.) I wrote about how I could end up with an incorrect definition of a word. One of the ways was by mishearing something. Someone suggested that I may have misheard “deduce” as “abduce”. I explained how I actually got this. (I couldn't remember why I thought “deduce” meant deduction) Here's an example of another one to illistrate how I used “abduce”: I saw a video where a streamer played a game. (I'll use some terms that I think are common for many games, but if you don't know, just treat them like people treat made-up words such as “gostak”.) There, they made a bingo card with various possible things they could find in the level. One of them was “elevator button”. I didn't know what it was. At some point, the streamer jumped and that had effect. They called it an elevator button. I abduced (or induced) that it meant detecting jumps. Later, it turned out that it actually meant a useless trigger I think deduction and induction are special cases of abduction. Deduction is when the method guarantees it with absolute certainty (assuming the premises are true), which is a case of high likelihood, and induction is when it's by generalising examples. In both cases, the result is likely true Here's a copypasta I've found recently: > # Smart characters written stupidly > > Why does nobody like Sherlock? Because it has smart characters written stupidly. > > Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men is a smartly written smart character. When Chigurh kills a hotel room full of three people he books to room next door so he can examine it, finding which walls he can shoot through, where the light switch is, what sort of cover is there etc. This is a smart thing to do because Chigurh is a smart person who is written by another smart person who understands how smart people think. > > Were Sherlock Holmes to kill a hotel room full of three people. He'd enter using a secret door in the hotel that he read about in a book ten years ago. He'd throw peanuts at one guy causing him to go into anaphylactic shock, as he had deduced from a dartboard with a picture of George Washington carver [sic] on it pinned to the wall that the man had a severe peanut allergy. The second man would then kill himself just according to plan as Sherlock had earlier deduced that him and the first man were homosexual lovers who couldn't live without eachother due to a faint scent of penis on each man's breath and a slight dilation of their pupils whenever they looked at each other. As for the third man, why Sherlock doesn't kill him at all. The third man removes his sunglasses and wig to reveal he actually WAS Sherlock the entire time. But Sherlock just entered through the Secret door and killed two people, how can there be two of him? The first Sherlock removes his mask to reveal he's actually Moriarty attempting to frame Sherlock for two murders. Sherlock however anticipated this, the two dead men stand up, they're undercover police officers, it was all a ruse. "But Sherlock!" Moriarty cries "That police officer blew his own head off, look at it, there's skull fragments on the wall, how is he fine now? How did you fake that?". Sherlock just winks at the screen, the end. > > This is retarded because Sherlock is a smart person written by a stupid person to whom smart people are indistinguishable from wizards. Induction as discussed here is also used in mathematics, although its results aren't called theorems until proven with deduction. They're usually called conjectures. It is commonly used in the study of L-objects I think a kind of deduction is similar to induction. The difference is that all the cases are considered. In Russian, it's called перебор (homonym for overkill). There are also two kinds of deduction known as induction. One is for sets defined by operations on them. One way of defining them formally is as the intersection of all sets closed under these operations. (It's possible to prove that they are themselves closed. Here's a fully formalised definition of one such set: x:∀N(∀n(∀ee∉n∨∃m(m∈N∧∀k(k∈n⇔k∈m∨∀e(e∈k⇔e∈m)))⇒n∈N)⇒x∈N). Here, I've used logical operators in a way I think makes it most clear and didn't use what I regard as shortcuts: quantors restricted to sets and identity. The latter means that I'm using a system when it isn't an elementary predicate; in such a system, the axiom of extensionality should be what is otherwise the substitution property imported from the identity package.) This meaning of induction is that every closed subset is the whole set. To me, the video mentioning that many people misunderstand it didn't explain it; I only realised what it actually is this month. There is also transfinite induction, which is basically the well-orderedness of a set formulated in a slightly different way I probably planned (very short-term) to write another point; if I remember (recall) it, I'll put it below
@Errafri
Жыл бұрын
My god I love the fact that you say "I'm a mathematician... of course I'm pedantic!" As a chemist, probably my favourite part of this video. Thank you for your amazing educational work by the way :)
@Guderian0617
5 күн бұрын
As a chemist, my response to anyone who says they only eat organic produce is "as oppose to what? Eating a rock?" It's their fault to misuse a scientific term afterall
@anonnymouse2402
Жыл бұрын
When I lose my keys, I always find them in the last place I look. (Of course, this is because I stop looking when I find them)
@kyleethekelt
7 күн бұрын
Of course, it's also worth noting that Holmes' conclusions are prisoners of his time: i.e. the Victorian and Edwardian eras. His conclusions, as with those we make, will be coloured by biases and experiences as well as knowledge. This is great stuff. I've subscribed.
@Zoddca321
Жыл бұрын
Regarding the last point you made that deduction in common parlance is not the same as deduction in more rigorous settings I think is trying to fight the tide. It's like how "theory" in common parlance just means "idea" while in more scientific settings a theory is much more rigorously defined and is pretty much what we'd call a done deal in day to day conversation. I understand and agree it's frustrating that jargon is used in ways directly counter to what they mean, but I don't think it's something worth expending the time or calories being bothered by.
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Broadly speaking, I agree -- it's hard to fight the tide and maybe not worth the effort. My point was more that the common parlence version has seeped into arenas (like debate) in which the rigorous version should be demanded. And many people don't know the difference which is what I hope to remedy with this video.
@Zoddca321
Жыл бұрын
@@AnotherRoof that's a fair point I didn't catch the first time around. I agree.
@KSignalEingang
Жыл бұрын
FWIW, when explaining the more rigorous definition of "theory", I often find people get it when I bring up the notion of "music theory" - it's not the bare supposition that "music exists" or anything like that, it's a framework that allows us to talk about music in a way that's helpful to understanding and discussing the underlying "facts" of tone, rhythm, harmony, etc., and how they relate to one another.
@Zoddca321
Жыл бұрын
@@KSignalEingang that's a really good shorthand. I'm going to use that going forward!
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
I think efforts to educate people about the proper meaning of theory have been pretty successful though, like you don't even see creationists saying “it's just a theory” anymore so that has to be a sign of progress.
@amazingjay5588
25 күн бұрын
I think the distinction in definitions is immensely important. I've gotten so sick of getting into arguments with people, only to realize later that the issue was actually incorrect definitions, and not a genuine disagreement. Language is important.
@yudeok413
Жыл бұрын
Be careful making toast in an air fryer. Depending on the design the air can push the bread up to contact the coil and you can imagine the rest 😢
@youtubeuserdan4017
Жыл бұрын
I'm self-studying formal logic and proofs using Velleman's book, so this video is convenient and much appreciated!!
@azrael_hypo
Жыл бұрын
i took a course in logic, and am currently talking one in mathematical proofs, but neither of them really explained anything here past the deduction section. i also find it interesting that mathematical induction is still a form of deduction. it took me quite a while to understand why mathematical induction worked as an actual proof
@qy9MC
Жыл бұрын
Didn’t he say in the video that mathematics only uses formal deduction?
@azrael_hypo
Жыл бұрын
@@qy9MC look up mathematical induction. it's a form of proof that uses recursion and it is actually deductive based on what he said, but it's called induction. it's quite a fun type of proof
@qy9MC
Жыл бұрын
@@azrael_hypo Ohh induction proofs yes. You’re right it’s odd we call it induction in English. In french they call it récurrence (recursion).
@lizbethespinoza9196
26 күн бұрын
I saw another video on deduction/induction and ever since I theorized Sherlock actually inducted, rather than deducted, so this confirms it. Thank you very much.
@3rdand105
Жыл бұрын
True story: when I was six years old, my brother began teaching me how to multiply. The first thing he taught me was that 3 x 3 = 9. I asked him why, because I wanted to know. He shot back with "it doesn't matter why, 3 x 3 = 9." After watching the entire video, I'm not sure where that falls in the category of logic. All I know is, he was right, because when I got to the 3rd grade a couple of years later, they told me the same thing, also without explanation. This may have to do more with indoctrination than with logic, but even today, 47 years later, 3 x 3 is still 9. Good stuff, this math...
@adapienkowska2605
Жыл бұрын
Really they haven't explained that if you add 3 times 3 - 3+3+3 then you get 9? Why?
@noahnaugler7611
Жыл бұрын
The problem with the : - some of b is is a - some of c is in b - therefore some of c is in a Is that the initial example would have constructed a triple nested Venn diagram, where a is entirely with b, and b entirely within c. The language kind of implied it, but not explicitly, and that's where the issue first artist. Your analysis of the Venn diagram you drew is also perfect, alongside your counter example, but I believe we may need to change how we word things to disambiguate
@Gottenhimfella
Жыл бұрын
Even as a boy I slightly mistrusted the postulate from Conan Doyle via Holmes that "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." I became increasingly unconvinced, as I was forced to gradually surrender the simplistic and convenient notions of youth, that it would ever be feasible to marshal ALL the alternative hypotheses to account for *known* facts (and that's setting aside their usual scarcity, in comparison to unknown and in some cases unknowable facts), let alone strictly and reliably split those hypotheses across the nebulous and hypothetical boundary between impossible and highly improbable. But even if this were possible, it seemed particularly unlikely that there would ever be only one hypothesis left on the "highly improbable" side of that boundary (unless, as often seemed the case in the Holmes stories, a woefully inadequate number of alternative hypotheses had been adduced in the first place, often only two or three) Finally the methology seems to me blatantly fallacious now you have laid out with a simple Venn diagram, in a specific instance, how Holmes' truth claim about wedding rings violates the formal definition of deduction. There is a good reason that the Holmes canon is shelved in the "fiction" section of libraries. It does make great reading, I have to admit, to pretend that the affairs and contexts of social interaction are necessarily susceptible to logical dissection with reliable prognoses. But if my happiness is ever hostage to the findings of a detective or judge, I can only hope they will not have learned their "logic" at Sherlock's knee.
@hedgehog3180
6 ай бұрын
The methodological flaw with this reasoning is unknown unknowns. Holmes can never ever be certain that he has removed all other possibilities because he cannot ever know that he knows everything pertaining to the case. Like maybe that ring actually had a special coating on the inside that kept it clean that Holmes has never heard about and since he isn't particularly up to date on nanoscience he doesn't even know such a thing could exist.
@Gottenhimfella
5 ай бұрын
@@hedgehog3180 It's a compelling and plausible example of an unknown unknown. The pedant in me does nevertheless feel compelled to consider a faint plea in mitigation for Conan Doyle: Holmes did observe that the ring was dirty on the outside, and it seems rather unlikely (although of course not impossible) that the ring would lose its external protection, or never have been externally protected, and yet retain its internal coating. However, an infinite number of very unlikely things are happening every instant. There is a huge distance between "very unlikely" and "impossible", a key consideration which Holmes completely and chronically overlooks. Which is why your example transcends my pedantic quibble, and perhaps hints at one reason why such quibbles, even though they may be worth dissecting, are usually immaterial.
@thanielxj11
25 күн бұрын
I really like the first example of the ring. I remember thinking that didn't quite track when I saw it on TV the first time, but I didn't know exactly how to describe it.
@collieyy
Жыл бұрын
Let’s be honest though, the BBC show makes sherlock’s reasoning especially silly
@icepyrox
4 күн бұрын
I think the biggest issue here is twofold: 1) we often say we deduce our conclusions and thst sounds nice. Abduction has a wholy different implication. As such, its pretty terrible at describing our thought processes. 2) people tend to be egotistical, even when they are not aware of it. As such, calling our thoughts with 90+% certainty a deduction just seems "logical", especially in a context when there is a lack of a better word - see point 1.
@spaghetto9836
Жыл бұрын
Tysm for this lol! Since I was younger, Holmes & these types of male characters in general often irked me with their type of reasoning, making premises that don't necessarily follow to then, at best, guess a conclusion & look like smug genies when correct. Especially when it came to assumptions about women's sex lives. I just couldn't put my finger on why, but it felt like it wasn't deduction. The best I could formulate was "At least say it's *likely* that this is the case, or make it clear we're talking about probability." Funny that that's basically what abduction is, which is what they were doing most of time. It also explains why I liked RDJ's version of Holmes better, bc the story shows he can be off sometimes. There's an issue in general with romanticising people's conditions as them being God, like that show about a man who can ALWAYS tell when someone lies, or the one about a woman who remembers everything & never forgets, or hell even The Good Doctor. Autism and sociopathy don't make you a well of truth. Despite these conditions, you're still human.
@davedixon2068
Жыл бұрын
he's always right because thats how the author wrote it
@-YELDAH
27 күн бұрын
I trusted you and you tricked me into learning things!
@shutupimlearning
Жыл бұрын
i just started real analysis 4 weeks ago and its my first proof writing/logic class. You're such a Legend!
@Littlepup93
9 күн бұрын
Abductive reasoning makes me think of the saying "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras."
@allanbessani5128
Жыл бұрын
i'm so happy to have found your channel! i took some classes in propositional logic in college way back then, you're helping me take out the rust from my brain.
@mesplin3
Жыл бұрын
I believe that the value from people being more apt at distinguishing different types of arguments is related to valuing clarity in communication.
@sarahsander785
17 күн бұрын
The moment you brought up the example of Sherlock's logic I was like: "No, this is bs. You can't conclude that from a clean inside of a ring. There are too many reasons for this." And I'm happy that you acknowledged the fact that even Sherlock's premise wasn't sound to begin with 😊
@u3u_o3o
Жыл бұрын
you're really good at explaining things! I hate this kind of stuff but you made it sound fun and easy to understand, so thank you for taking your time!
@Jahjaga
18 күн бұрын
You’re right, of course, but the idea is that when Sherlock Holmes says, “The state of this ring indicates serial infidelity,” he has eliminated other possibilities through obscure expertise (e.g., BBC Sherlock canonically authored an article about the “The X Different Kinds of Cigarette Ash,” so when he later makes a claim about an ashtray indicating something, the viewer is to understand that he has the requisite expertise to prove that claim by necessity.). It’s a superpower that works better when it’s not explained (which is good because it can’t be explained because it doesn’t actually work irl).
@iambad
28 күн бұрын
27:40 What a twist. I was sure that you were about to introduce this video's sponsor, brilliant.
@SupaMalaman
Жыл бұрын
One of the things I’ve always loved about the novels is Watson admitting that a lot of the time Sherlock is actually wrong, & the instances in which he actually pulls something remarkable with his strange method he selectively presents those stories to the public. This follows logically; making huge categorical assumptions & coming to wild conclusions about mundane phenomena would make you a bit foolish more often than not.
@AnotherRoof
Жыл бұрын
Agreed. And it stands in contrast to the BBC show which seems to present Holmes as a super genius who's never wrong!
@malenixius
7 күн бұрын
Wedding ring often removed is more likely to mean healthcare worker (infection control) to me. In other news, my bread becomes toast under a grill.
@kakkon5779
Жыл бұрын
Awesome video! I love learning the actual correct terms, mostly using definitions as well. I think the general problem here is more about Sherlock Holmes as a concept rather than the adaptation. Of course, "fixing" the issues can make for a better movie. But the point is, Sherlock is an ideal person so "clever" he's supposed to be capable of detecting every possibility in each case he's given. So he starts inside a "possibility" group (like the wet road group) and is able to rule out everything but the truth based on new information, therefore arriving at the correct subgroup (the rain subgroup). This is why despite being a classic to many, Sherlock's also commonly considered to be entry-level detective stuff. He's always right, so the reader doesn't need to think other than to try and keep up with him.
@johnbutler4631
Жыл бұрын
Logic spoiled me for Sherlock Holmes years ago, and now it drives me up the wall when I hear Holmes' methods called "deductive reasoning" or "deduction."
@johnbutler4631
Жыл бұрын
@@DMW4 Yes I do agree. I think it is accurate to say that Holmes dipped into several types of logic and reasoning. While it would be incorrect to say that Holmes never used deductive reasoning, it would also be incorrect to say that deductive reasoning was a novel innovation that Holmes brought to his investigative techniques (which is how Holmes is sometimes characterized).
@samdryden7944
Жыл бұрын
I think it's in the Red Headed League short story where Holmes tells the client he's a clerk because the cuffs of his jacket are shiny. He could have bought the jacket at a thrift store, or borrowed it from someone. That's the example that I've always pointed to as proof that Holmes' "deductions" aren't logical.
@murderalphabetinc.5162
Жыл бұрын
One of my favorite House MD premises: "It's never lupus"... Until he uses inductive reasoning to change the premise to "it's never lupus, unless it is".
@skyletwings5711
28 күн бұрын
That's the actual problem I've always had with Holmes cases, brought to the point. I always saw at least one other possibility (usually a myriad) and never understood why the accidental cummulation of his lucky guesses made him such an ingenious detective, while usually single wrong guesses could have lead him to completely wrong paths.
@manchmalpfosten8133
13 күн бұрын
Its 2am and I feel like Minecraft Steve is teaching me how to think
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