What I keep in mind is that, expansion or not, getting shot with a 230gr lump of lead and copper will still fuck up your day.
@levay8224
5 ай бұрын
Lol right, no one ever said “at least it wasnt hollow point”
@renaissanceman5847
Ай бұрын
true.. but the 45 is outdated. 9mm +P has higher velocity and allows you to carry significantly more rounds for the same size frame. I used to believe the whole "but it won two wars" thing. and when SHTF... ammo count is paramount
@sipp884
Ай бұрын
@@renaissanceman5847a short barrel ccw test is not appropriate for maxing velocity or shtf in the first place
@stew-03
Ай бұрын
@@renaissanceman5847 45 Super would like a word with you.
@Paladin1873
8 ай бұрын
A 230 grain flat tip would probably be my choice in a short barrel. In a 4" or 5" barrel I suspect HST would do fine at close range.
@patriotpreacher43
8 ай бұрын
Short and thick…you talkin bout my wife again?!😂
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😆😆😆
@MrTruckerf
8 ай бұрын
@CarnivoreDog
8 ай бұрын
Always tells it like it is. Never shows any favoritism with ammo. Even when he likes a certain brand, he'll tell you if your getting your money's worth. Integrity is a premium these days. Glad there's some on this channel.
@miker9043
8 ай бұрын
Wish companies would offer more 45 acp jhp in 185 to 200 grain projectiles to get the speeds up ! Thanks Tools for braving the cold for another good test !
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Appreciate that!😎👊
@JJ_SDWR
8 ай бұрын
Sig makes a V-crown in 200gr
@rsbreeze
8 ай бұрын
Underwood Exterme Defender 135g @1240 FPS.
@wizardofahhhs759
8 ай бұрын
I wonder why they don't?
@denmar355
8 ай бұрын
Underwood Xtreme Defender sure is good from my testing. My go-to round for 45acp.
@nikos6220
8 ай бұрын
The king of low speed expansion on the ropes. If even an HST struggles the 230 grain should be reserved for the FMJs. [EDIT: I meant out of a short barrel, as many rightfully pointed out in the comments 😁]
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Mhmm
@bobwilson758
8 ай бұрын
Agreed !
@MeMadeIt
8 ай бұрын
Only for short barrels (under 4") like Glock 30. Out of a 5", the HST shines!
@houseofpain3580
8 ай бұрын
45acp causes debilitating SHOCK
@danielaramburo7648
8 ай бұрын
Even if it doesn’t expand much or little to nothing, it will penetrate less than an FMJ. Something worth considering.
@natjonestower3035
8 ай бұрын
I sometimes carry a 3.3 inch 45, so these tests are valuable.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Appreciate ya, brother!
@DavidLLambertmobile
8 ай бұрын
LAPD's elite 🕶 SIS toted Glock 30S .45acp guns. I'm not sure what duty round they use, 2024.
@Tom-cp6yj
8 ай бұрын
Hopefully, you carry 185gr
@natjonestower3035
8 ай бұрын
@@Tom-cp6yj 200g v-crowns. They probably work.
@jona5517
8 ай бұрын
Same… Ive been carrying a G30 since the early 2000s
@williamzeller294
8 ай бұрын
Having had HSTs in my .45s for several years, I finally abandoned them after some reliability problems. The worst came a few years ago when I was shooting out the HSTs that were in my carry Commander. It tied up solid on the second round. I had some trouble clearing the jam, kept shooting and then had another stoppage a couple shots later. Taking the gun apart, I found the front half of the case still stuck in the chamber. I kept on shooting the ammunition from the box and had numerous case failures: the case cannelure was cut too deeply and the cases came apart while firing. Federal sent me a whole case of the stuff once I sent in the evidence, but I just used it for practice ammo and went back to Speer Gold Dots. We also had a large number of bullet setback problems upon multiple chamberings and we now restrict each round to only two chambering before the round goes into the practice pile. I found out how much a problem this was on the chrono- suddenly I was getting an extra 100fps. Checking the ammo I saw the bullets set back nearly 0.10", Finally, a Paul Harrel video had me finally get off the 230s after half a century and investigate 185s for the old warhorses. A 185 Gold Dot +P making 1000fps out my little .45 Shield is pretty nasty stuff and hasn't given a single problem in hundreds of rounds. (It makes 1080fps in the Commander and 1110 in a Government Model.) Even an old guy can change.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
That aint good. I actually think to myself what a deeply cut cannelure these things have every time I use em. Haven't had a problem with em myself, but it always stands out.
@wizardofahhhs759
8 ай бұрын
I run 165gr Hydra Shoks through my M& P Shield 2.0 with 3.25" barrel and the expansion is beautiful. Every petal peels back perfectly, looks like a starfish 😃
@Plow-b1x
8 ай бұрын
Expansion in 45 ACP is not necessary. Promote affordable practice ammo in all calibers.
@murphymmc
8 ай бұрын
A 185gr or 200gr .45 ACP HST would work well in the 4" barrel. A shame they haven't figured that out yet.
@CrashRacknShoot
8 ай бұрын
There's really not much one can do in the confines of a .45 acp round to fix that. It's just physics. Either way, bring it down to a 185, and you're in business. Might weigh less, but let's not forget that's smacking you with 61 more grains than a 9mm HST. Nearly 1.5x the weight, and the 9 does damn good as it is. 49% more mass, 21.2% bigger diameter, similar penetration. That's gonna hurt.
@stew-03
Ай бұрын
@@CrashRacknShoot 45 Super in 185 grain kicks some ass too. Bit more expensive for a shipment of them though.
@kevmac1230
Ай бұрын
@@stew-03Even 45 range ammo isn't cheap,and I shoot a lot of it,my favorite caliber. My defenceive rounds are Nosler asp 185 gr . They are hollow and run well in my Commander length and my BBR 3.10 shorty 1911. I really like them.
@theoriginalOSOK
8 ай бұрын
Yep - stick with a standard barrel length is the lesson learned here. Although, lets be real - a 45 will do the job expansion or no. But I'd rather see it open up of course... This is why I like my G22 in 40S&W 180's at 1000 fps +
@guardianminifarm8005
8 ай бұрын
Huge thanks. I am very surprised that these velocities are as low as they are. A few years ago I tested Critical Defense, Critical Duty and HST +P in 3.3" Shield 45. Chronograph #s were low 900s for HST. It performed incredible in my crude media tests. All 3 expanded but the HST was so impressive we switched from Critical Duty to the HST+P. Stay safe & warm.
@EC-mc7vg
8 ай бұрын
The original concept of the .45 ACP for the military as a "man stopper" was just a BIG chunk of FMJ copper and lead to do the trick. But a pass through with FMJ ammo and collateral damage on the battlefield is a totally different thing than out on the street in the civilian world. Seems the bullet makers could figure out how to get 230 grainers to expand at the speed of the .45 ACP or offer more 185 or 200 grainers with the additional speed required for consistent expansion. It does seem the threshold on these bullets is right at the 800 fps range, sure doesn't leave much room for error with the .45 ACP.
@kennethferguson4283
8 ай бұрын
As I have said before the .45 caliber handgun is a relic of the past. The .40 and 10mm both outclass the .45 in every measure, including reliability of ammo performance.
@dariodicarlo8745
8 ай бұрын
@@kennethferguson4283That’s really just not true unless you’re talking about very short barrels once you get a .45 with a barrel length of 4 inches or more it will outperform .40 by a wide margin and certainly compete with lots of 10mm out there I don’t get the hype behind 10mm when most factory loadings are woefully underpowered the only companies that do 10mm any justice are buffalo bore and underwood
@exothermal.sprocket
8 ай бұрын
The original concept was also using a 1911 with 5-inch barrels. Getting the same 'scoot' from a 4-inch or 3.5-inch barrel is asking something.
@EC-mc7vg
8 ай бұрын
@@exothermal.sprocket This is true. The 5" 1911 and the .45 ACP ammo were made to go hand in hand. We are asking much more of it now.
@terryobrien308
8 ай бұрын
Very cool. You were able to identify the velocity threshold for expansion.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@KD-lb9bg
8 ай бұрын
I'd like to see these two loads as a series of tests out of Commander length (4.25") barrels and full size (5") barrels and a full size Glock barrel (4.6"). It's very intriguing to me that you found the expansion threshold of approximately 800fps. It would be nice to see the degree of expansion and depth of penetration from the various barrel lengths. Great 👍🏻 testing as always, thanks very much.
@Texasmade4444444444
8 ай бұрын
Yeah a commander length would be nice
@sloanmagnum5009
8 ай бұрын
You could have typed less words in the search bar and found your answer than asking about it in the comments. There's several videos showing exactly what you're asking. Even Tools and Targets has a video. Smh....
@KD-lb9bg
8 ай бұрын
@@sloanmagnum5009 Hey there, thanks for reaching out Useless. You have a Super day.
@sloanmagnum5009
8 ай бұрын
@@KD-lb9bg you're the one who's useless. Your comment makes that clear.
@seekertwo1
8 ай бұрын
Great video. JMB's original .45ACP round used the 230gr. bullet, but the US military requested a load to replicate its .45 Colt ballistics, hence the 230gr. It's long past time to go back to the original specs and standardize on 200gr. .45ACP.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Thank you sir.😎👊
@seekertwo1
8 ай бұрын
You're referring to the. 460 Rowland....@JamesGmoneyBanks
@charlesmaglieri686
24 күн бұрын
Amen to that!! The 200 gr in FMJ, flat nose, or HP at standard or Plus P pressures are winners for sure! Mr Browning knew what he was doing but the Army always screws things up 😵💫☺️. The 185 gr also make for good comparison to the 10 mill!
@markholen8399
8 ай бұрын
The federal punch 230gr and hydra shock deep both performed well in a previous test out of a short barrel
@jmichaelcarbonniere9549
8 ай бұрын
Another great test, Brian! You've proven my point about .45 ACP... a 230 gr bullet just cannot be completely relied upon to do the job even you're paying for premium ammo! This is the reason I alway use the 185 gr. bullets when available when it comes to hollow points. Unfortunately, I don't believe Federal makes anything smaller than the 230. Speer does but I have no idea of availability, which can be a problem. I will continue to stay with the Lehigh Xtreme Defender ammo for carry ammo. I continue to believe that it is simply the best bullet that can be had for self or home defense. Period. All that said, I did some tests with the Speer 230 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel bullets and they open reliably down to 750 fps (in my test medium of ziplok sandwich bags filled with water). Penetration, as with all Gold Dots, was excellent! Considering the fact that I can load these bullets to 950 fps with no problems, I have no qualms using them. These are the *only* 230 gr bullets I will load for 45 ACP! And after my first choice Lehigh bullets (135 gr XD), my second choice will remain the 185, with the SB bullets coming in 3rd. I do have a few of the 200 gr Gold Dots, which fall in between the 185 and the 230 but I push them hard, as I do all my self defense ammo. Velocity is King when it comes to self or home defense and hollow point ammo! Of course, no one should ever use ball ammo in any caliber as it has been proven over and over to be nearly useless. The reason why is there are simply too many other proven rounds that do work! Even if you believe, in spite of all the tests (e.g. facts) regarding them, the Lehigh XD rounds will always work *as well* and probably better, than any ball round! Anyone that chooses to use ball over the available better ammo is being either extremely cheap or just plain hard headed. Whatever, no one can make them use the best possible ammo and hopefully they will never have to find out just how ineffective their hard ball really is! You can lead a horse to water but a pencil has to be lead! Cheers, jc
@leahbennett4979
8 ай бұрын
The 45acp got its reputation as a man stopper with the 230 ball fmj, proven in ww1 ww2,Korea, Vietnam, and present day,believe me, I'm a veteran, and have talked to veterans who have used it and seen it first hand. There is a reason its still being used today.
@Chris_the_Dingo
8 ай бұрын
@@leahbennett4979 For sure. I wouldn't exactly call .45 ball ammo "useless"
@WayStedYou
8 ай бұрын
@leahbennett4979 out of 8 and 10 inch barrel grease gun and Thompson with more velocity
@NoNew42
8 ай бұрын
@@hotrodray6802they will spin it against you no matter what ammo you use. Hollows? You tried to kill the person. FMJ? You were negligent of the people behind the person. Fragmenting? You were trying to blow his lung out. You can’t win when communism changes the very meaning of words and intentions on a daily basis
@dariodicarlo8745
8 ай бұрын
@@hotrodray6802prosecutors will try to put you in prison use the best tools for the job if not you’ll likely be dead anyways
@mudduck851
8 ай бұрын
You sir, are a legend. I love the delivery you have!
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Thank you sir!😎👊
@ArtofHunter
3 ай бұрын
HST is a great round but if you're carrying below 4.25" it's not the choice I'd go for. My pick is Gold Dot 200gr +p or Barnes Tac-XPs in 160 or 185 +ps.
@rsbreeze
8 ай бұрын
Excellent test! Everybody's friend the .45ACP! I would like to see you test the Underwood 45ACP Extreme Defender 135g @ 1240 fps. In fact, it would be great to do a complete test of Underwood Extreme Defender/ Hunter in .380, 9mm, .357 mag, 10mm, 45ACP just to see how incredibly well they perform, but also the difference between them.
@isellcatlitter
8 ай бұрын
i think, and i may be wrong... the .45acp was designed for ball ammunition... the U.S. Army in the year of 1911 wanted penetration and were not even concerned with expansion...
@gunpolygamist
8 ай бұрын
I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT
@timrobinson6573
8 ай бұрын
In the Thompson-LeGarde testing they tested many hollow points, fragmenting ammo and explosive ammunition but found it to be too unreliable or too costly to adopt. You can find the final typed test analysis online so you don't have to depend on rumors.
@twistedfocus
8 ай бұрын
Mostly right. Military can’t use hollow points, which I don’t think were in wide use anyway at the time. So, compared to the 38 revolvers they had prior, this was a way to get a bigger hole and more power within the rules.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
💥😎👍💥
@DavidLLambertmobile
8 ай бұрын
John M Browning was asked what was best or what loads to use: 1911 .45acp model. He said: this pistol works best with round nose 230gr bullets, FMJ or JHP. ✔️
@brandiwynter
8 ай бұрын
This mimics what Lucky Gunner got from a 3.6" barrel. The standard HST gave 5 out 5 perfect expanded bullets but the +P gave only 4 out 5 expanded rounds. Their chrono speeds were 822fps for the standard pressure and 844fps for the +P. It's the opposite of what you would expect but I have no idea why. Their expanded bullets look much better for some reason, I don't know whether they use a heavy clothing barrier. I'd be curious to see how these perform in bare gel. I wonder how much the clothing is affecting it, if at all. That said, I don't know of a better short barrel .45acp round. I can't remember if there's a lighter bullet that performs better.
@exothermal.sprocket
8 ай бұрын
.45 doesn't get smaller even without expansion. It's my guess a standard 5-inch barrel (such as a 1911) would cross that impact velocity threshold for good expansion. But even so, if I go as heavy as 230gr, I always prefer to grab +p.
@BrokenBarBox
8 ай бұрын
Does the cold temperature make much of a difference?
@victorwright4898
8 ай бұрын
I use HST+P in 3.5" officers. It performs perfectly!!
@oakland002
8 ай бұрын
For pistol cal I prefer 10” barrel max , unless it’s a 9mm then 16” shouldn’t be too bad
@aleffel9668
6 ай бұрын
In terms of finding out consistently of expansion, especially in rounds that you’re questioning if they will expand properly, really the testing protocol should be 4-5 rounds of each loading just to see consistency. I don’t think 1 round is enough to check for what you can expect to see consistently. .45 out of short barrels is iffy to say the least. I would stick with critical defense 45.
@crsquirrely73
8 ай бұрын
You did me a favor and made me glad I sold my M&P Shield in .45 acp with a 3.1 inch barrel Now I know I need at least a 4.25-5 inch barrel for those 45's
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@crsquirrely73
8 ай бұрын
@@ToolsandTargets I bought a CMMG Banshee in 10mm with an 8 inch barrel I used some Buffalo Bore 180 grain HP and it's amazing. The gun is having some double feed and brass ejection errors but I'm hoping they go away
@jona5517
8 ай бұрын
I’ve seen 230s speer gold dots do well out of short barrels. The ones made for short barrels anyway. I got a bunch from PSA a few weeks ago.
@paulmo-we1mw
8 ай бұрын
Hey Tools, Great stuff. 45acp is my favorite. Keep up the good work sir! 👍👍👊
@theumpteenthtime8854
8 ай бұрын
Going back to your previous 45 HST +p vs the XTP we see great performance from the HST, but that was on bare gel. Another creator, 1shot, did a video several years ago using the Shield 45 against several top brands and the HST far outperformed them, even against layers of denim, fleece, and fabric. Going off this video here, I'd still say the HST still performed better than the Winchester White Box shown in your video a few weeks ago. Overall, I'd say yes to even the standard pressure HST. It's what's loaded when I carry my Shield 45.
@williambaker1753
8 ай бұрын
The only things I like about the 45 ACP caliber is 1911s a suppressed pistols because just about every 45 ACP ammo company makes their ammo subsonic so it's really easy to find. I'm not going to lie most of the time if I have a 45 on me I have TMJs. I do like some of the 45 underwood and Buffalo Bore. I expected HSTs performance to be a lot better than that I love HSTs in 9mm they are definitely in my top 5 EDC ammo Gold dots and HSTs in 9mm expand picture perfect everytime in gel water and sand. I never tried HST ammo in 45 and would only consider picking up a box or two if I found it on sale and couldn't find any of my usual go to ammo. Good video thanks for the heads up on the below average ammo you saved me some money.
@randlerichardson5826
8 ай бұрын
Your shootin them crooked bullets again lolllll
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😆😆😆
@scarifrougeone7225
8 ай бұрын
That was awesome I totally agree with the (fps) threshold comment. Excellent test and commentary. HST is still the king of the hill I believe most of the time. lol 😂. Very surprising on the standard pressure to be ahead of the +P. Looks like the price difference would be in effect on those rounds. Anyway thanks for sharing and shivering through the cold brother. Be safe. 🇺🇸🇺🇸⭐️🇺🇸🇺🇸
@jstephen45
8 ай бұрын
Love 45acp but never expect the 230s to expand, it ain't happening at those speeds at least. You know that all too well. You'd think these ammo makers would do some testing, too, though. At least we have you out there keeping a check on them, thanks TnT!
@stansdds
8 ай бұрын
Excellent video. I'm a fan of the HST line, it's usually very good, but velocity is still important to bullet expansion. Back in the day, you needed to be supersonic in order to have any hope of expansion. With modern JHP bullets, supersonic is not necessarily the threshold, but when you get below about 900 fps, I think that reliable expansion with a JHP bullet starts to get questionable. Speer's Gold Dot might do a bit better at lower velocities since their bullets are not really jacketed, but are plated with a fairly thick layer of copper. I could be wrong, it's just my feeling on this subject.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Thank you sir.😎👊
@delles1548
8 ай бұрын
Another great ammo test. I handload the 230 HST from a batch of demilled bullets I bought a few years back, but I have always loaded them to my +P levels. In my 5" 1911's, they average 930 fps and in my 4" barrel Springfield XD, they run around 850-860 fps. At those vels, they do expand well, so after watching this test, I will keep my 4" barrel loads at the 850 fps minimums. Thanks again.
@SwampOperator
8 ай бұрын
I'm not sure how 930 fps from a 5" handgun can be considered +p
@delles1548
8 ай бұрын
In my various reloading manuals, the load of Power Pistol powder that yields 930-940 fps with a 230 grain bullet is listed as SAAMI +P. Loads in the below 900fps are listed as standard. These are true chronograph velocities and not advertised factory vels that rarely actually occur. IN my 45 Super brass, I push the 230 grain bullets to 1,100 fps. By Brad Miller, Ph.D. "As many shooters know, the .45 ACP is the All-American pistol cartridge. It was the creation of John M. Browning, one of America's most prolific and talented gun and cartridge designers. When he created the .45 ACP in 1904-05, it pushed a 200-grain bullet to 900 fps. That load evolved into a 230-grain bullet moving at 850 fps. Today's .45 ACP factory loads push 230-grain bullets at velocities ranging from the low 800s to the high 800s in fps. Several manufacturers offer +P loads that push 230-grain bullets over 900 fps." As an FYI, I owned and operated an ammunition manufacturing business for 6 years in the 1990's. @@SwampOperator
@gonzogriff
8 ай бұрын
Wow, you said it. I held hst in high regard… until now maybe. I had a random thought as well, if you happen to keep track of which ammo doesn’t expand at handgun velocities, maybe they would at carbine or rifle length. I know pccs are a trigger word for some but I think it could be suitable for these non performers you’ve found lol.
@jimreed6875
8 ай бұрын
I will continue to carry HST in my .45. It's a 5 inch so I do believe it will expand. I did expect it to do better even in the shorter barrel, though. You found the barrel length at which HST expansion is problematic.
@raybo34
7 ай бұрын
They should do better out of my 4.75 inch barrel. I need to look see if you did a commander or 5 inch barrel. Appreciate your tests as always.
@hhhservicesllc3163
8 ай бұрын
Hey Brother Brian, do you think that the temp of the ballistic gel could have any effect on it??? Appreciate all that you're doing!!!!
@Chris_the_Dingo
8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the review. I been carrying a S&W Shield 45 for a while. Good to see some data for shorter barrel pistols.
@Mikelp73
8 ай бұрын
In 45acp do you think hst is better than punch? I conpared them and I think hst was a better looking quality wise but the velocity was the same on both. I carry a shield 45 so it’s a shorty.
@rangetime6779
8 ай бұрын
You found the expansion threshold. Too bad they don't make it in 200 grain
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Yeah, 200 would probably be great stuff.
@brucearney9536
8 ай бұрын
The advantage of 45 , they come pre expanded !
@GSAZYNSKI
8 ай бұрын
Curious as to why the standard pressure got better expansion than the +P. I suspect that the +P has a harder alloy lead for the higher velocities from duty-length barrels, and not compacts like the G30, or my P220 SAS Carry. I'm sure both variants would do well in a Commander or a G21.
@mcfivedad
8 ай бұрын
Feels like the trend is toward smaller/lighter, faster these days rather than the old school heavy-for-caliber stuff. Enjoying the channel!
@phillhuddleston9445
8 ай бұрын
I really like the .45 ACP cartridge but I hate 230 gr. bullets in it, 200 gr. max whether long or short barrel and 185 gr. are the perfect weight. In my opinion the .45 ACP is such a low pressure cartridge that +P's should be the normal round if not loaded to .45 Super level which is still only 28K PSI and far less than most other self defense cartridges including the 9mm.
@bobg.8954
8 ай бұрын
Another good test with great info to have, especially knowing that I have a 3.3 inch barrel. Appreciate the info T!
@220swift7
8 ай бұрын
I wonder if Federal has changed something. I have had beautiful expansion from the standard pressure 230s out of my Xd-s. Basically the same setup you use. Only difference is the ammo was bought 5 years ago, and I bought the 50rd Leo marked boxes. I tested two separate times, got full expansion, and ~13" of penatration.
@rosskorhummel7306
8 ай бұрын
I have said it before... Tools gives the best reviews. Honesty, Unbiased, No BS
@CarolinaRimfire
8 ай бұрын
I don't even mess around with 45s anymore if they don't have at least a 5 inch barrel. Such a tricky round for performance. Thanks for the video, Tools!
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@PerceptionVsReality333
8 ай бұрын
There are rounds made specifically for short barrels but are usually hard to find. Speer gold dot is a good one.
@jona5517
8 ай бұрын
@@PerceptionVsReality333I got a bunch of 45 gold dot sb from Palmetto St. a few weeks ago.
@PerceptionVsReality333
8 ай бұрын
@@jona5517 You got lucky there that's one of the best rounds.
@phillhuddleston9445
8 ай бұрын
The problem is the 230 gr. bullets, 185's work well in all barrel lengths especially if they are backed by a +P charge as they should be since the .45 ACP is a very low pressure round to begin with.
@colewarweg8594
8 ай бұрын
You’ve proven that, with the exception of those +p berry’s hybrids from underwood, 185 grain is the way to go in .45. Especially if you’re rocking anything shorter than a 5 inch tool. Another awesome test!
@WayStedYou
8 ай бұрын
The 200 v crown worked well from what I remember too
@jstud999
8 ай бұрын
HST is what I carry in 9mm and 45acp. The hst performs in all calibers.
@curtk8130
8 ай бұрын
The 230 grain 45 is just too inconsistent. I’m sure someone makes a +p load that is good but this hst didn’t impress me. I got some Barnes +p 230 gr options that are seemingly solid but once again out of the shorter barrels it’s probably not fast enough. I like the 185 grain options because they can build up more speed plus It’s still a heavy projectile. Great test!!!!!
@petee454
8 ай бұрын
Thank you for the excellent test!! I do not use any of my 45's without a 5 inch barrel. Yes, I carry a full size 1911 year round. I love the Hornaday Critical Duty 220+P and the HST 230gr +P. Love them both!!! Thank you again. You do the most honest and cool videos on the web. Still putting in my application for your "Charlie" position! I need to get out of NJ!!!
@robhill4352
Ай бұрын
Yeah 800fps is the sweet spot for proper hollowpoint airgun pellet expansion too. I wonder if there is something to that.
@NOorah-oj8gt
8 ай бұрын
Great video! For a round not designed for shot barrels that's good. If you're shooting a short barrel you should be choosing ammo made for your situation.
@TheCharlesAtoz
8 ай бұрын
You gotta wonder what the engineers were thinking when they concocted the recipe for both of these rounds. Not convinced I would ever buy either one of these rounds.
@robertbrooks4413
8 ай бұрын
I've fired Win Ranger and Rem Golden Saber (240gr) through 1911 Govt and Officer models. Got full expansion on both with both.
@mattjessie3576
7 ай бұрын
That's crazy because right before you said I think we found the threshold it's exactly what I was thinking great video.
@charlesphillips5906
8 ай бұрын
Thanks for the short barrel.
@willlambert1809
8 ай бұрын
I’ve seen gel tests with Speer Gold Dot 230 grain short barrel that has done really well
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@mot0rhe4d40
8 ай бұрын
I stick with the 185gr & 185gr +P class loadings for the carry ( M&P 45c 4" barrel ). If I plan to run a 230gr it's a lead SWC flavor. Thanks for the good data brother.
@SEPTEMBERMAN
8 ай бұрын
Underwood 230 +P Ball in my Glock 30 and a 14 round mag. I can care less about expansion. Ball ammo was good enough for WW I and WW II as well as Vietnam. Good enough for me.
@ONENONLYOC
5 ай бұрын
Praying for the bystanders 😂
@ballsack8937
3 ай бұрын
Big slow 45 ain't punching through much after it hits home. I doubt it's gonna act like a 9 it's not shooting that hot@@ONENONLYOC
@hoffpbass
8 ай бұрын
I was considerong a G30S for a carry option for a while. But I would only use 175, 185 or 200 grain max if I had. That said, I picked up 1 box of the +P 230's last year from a LEO trade in and they are in the fullsize 1911. So, appears they should work in that tool. I got some 210 grain HydraShock Deeps for the Commander 1911. After this test, I will stick with those in that tool. Thanks for finding the 800 ft/sec tbreshhold on these. You are serving God's caliber with justice with your work here today 😊
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Appreciate that!😎👊
@DavidLLambertmobile
8 ай бұрын
As noted, the elite PD detectives 🕵🏼♂️ of the LAPD-SIS carry Glock .45 model 30S. Undercover, 2nd gun. Not sure what load they currently carry- 2024.
@DavidLLambertmobile
8 ай бұрын
I'd add: I own a used Glock 41 gen 4 .45 model. I bought Underwood 185gr +P JHPs in 2022 & a new box of 230gr +P Federal LE type HST in 2023. I rarely carry the big 41 .45acp but it does well, no flaws.
@LuckyDog350X
8 ай бұрын
As soon as I seen the velocity on that last shot, I was thinking to myself before you said it that it look like he found the minimum speed of about 800fps. to open up. Good test as always have a good one brother see you on the next one.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Thank you sir.😎👊
@possumpopper89
8 ай бұрын
I recently bought a G30S and have tested it for reliability. Gonna have to test my different favorites to see if it will expand.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@JJ_SDWR
8 ай бұрын
Good test Tools. I picked up a 50 round box of the +P stuff for about $28 recently, looks like these are borderline in the shorter barrel, but I have a feeling a full size 1911 for example would see a little better performance. As you said its a big honkin' 45. I wouldn't carry a 45 on me but its in the safe! Also, Sig makes V-Crown in 200gr now, I wonder how that round would do in a shorter barrel 🤔
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
Can't go wrong at that price.😎👊
@mp9228
8 ай бұрын
Good round for people, for the woods I might have went with this if the +P showed any difference (it didn’t in your full size tests either) but I went with the Speer 200gr gold dots at ~1020 fps.
@RealtyPro7
5 ай бұрын
(TLDR: Getting a G30S again tomorrow and need to choose a good 45acp for the short barrel. Researching again now. Hoping you have or will do tests of the UW XD, Hornady Def/Duty, Liberty and other edc ammo with the short barrel.) Your video tests are on the short list of one that I come back to multiple times! Especially since you are sticking with the clothing barrier on the gel. Last time on this one I posted about the G30 vs G29 and why I just stick with 10mm. But I stumbled across a G30S Gen 3 like I had before, and since there is still no Gen 4 or 5 out, I went ahead and bought it. The 30S fits in most holsters etc made for a G19 which makes life easier lol. Most of my handguns in 45acp are 5-6” right now so I haven’t really paid attention to the special needs using a short barrel. Thanks to your videos I’m back to that research to choose the right ammo for that gun. It’s been several years since I sold the other one I had. I have a lot of HST so I started here and you reminded me why I wasn’t using HST in that gun before. Not I need to see which other 45acp tests you ran from the short barrel! I’m hoping you did some gel/clothing tests with the g30 and the UW XD, Hornady Def/Duty, maybe that crazy Liberty ammo and some others? I remember some, but thinking you only used 4” or larger guns… About to begin the search. Thanks again for so many unbiased tests that have irl applications and now use the same medium for comparison.
@billdye3530
8 ай бұрын
Always love the info you provide us with. Am keeping a Taurus 24/7 compact 45acp for a friend while he is in hospital for theft safety's sake. He had 230gr Flat Points in it but I may let him have some HPs instead. Recoil maybe snappy so may research some to figure out best for someone with weakness issues. He wont switch to a 9mm 🙈🙊. 👍🙏
@Thoreau-e4l
8 ай бұрын
Some of my 200 grain cast flat points are expanding like crazy going through hvac refrigerant tanks. Have no idea about the JELLY.
@MitchC357
8 ай бұрын
HST does pretty well again. Established almost like the Punch. Thanks for these tests.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@johngrunwell2412
8 ай бұрын
I can tell you that I did NOT expect that poor performance. Even .380ACP HSTs did better, but of course not in penetration department. Great video and proves even reading the box doesn’t guarantee performance, even the speeds were erratic to some extent. Time for a warm drink, but not meaning coffee. Barrel length does play a game esp. when a lot want to carry Small. Thanks.
@MrSumGuns
8 ай бұрын
Man thanks for all the hard work you do for us especially in the cold. Your the man! My opinion is 45 acp is no good unless you use at least a 5 inch barrel.
@tahertz8544
8 ай бұрын
HST has got big exspantion and came up short in penetration alot. I Like 200 GD short barrel And Federal Hydroshoks Deep 210 gr. Great video.
@ToolsandTargets
8 ай бұрын
😎👊
@treetop.garage
8 ай бұрын
HST is usually my go to ..great test tools
@RealtyPro7
8 ай бұрын
As always great test! Sadly not great results for HST from a short barrel. But it was great timing because it really reminds me why I went with 10mm long ago. As you probably know Glock has both the G29 and G30 out in Gen 5. I’d sold a few of my larger caliber Gen 3’s already and replaced the full size with my main edc Gen 4 G20 with a tlr1. That was just before the Gen 5 hit the shelves as I predicted lol. But it’s all set up as wanted and broken in, so it’s staying a while. I still need to replace the compact versions though. I’m going to just replace the G29 and hold off on the G30 until maybe they drop the slim slide S version. The 10mm just works no matter the barrel length with most ammo. The 45 can’t keep up in power, expansion, penetration or capacity. Looks like even with the under powered ammo many companies sell, 10mm remains the king. At least for my purposes. I still like and use all calibers, even a pocket 380. But these days anything below the G29 or G20 just feels weak or “less than”. I need to search back through your past videos to see if you tested HST, 200 grain UW XTP, UW XD or any of the others out of a G29. Don’t think I remember those combos plus the clothing on the gel but I’ll look. If not, and if you have or grab a G29, maybe they could get on the upcoming or updated new tests. Honestly even if someone doesn’t like to carry full size, a G29 with a tlr7a and the plus two extension is a pretty small package with a lot of power and decent 12+1 capacity. It’s like a slightly fatter G19 with double the power.
@wtpence4731
2 ай бұрын
I believe Speer use to load a 200gr.,"flying ashtray" Always impressed me !
@randyduncan795
8 ай бұрын
Please forgive my greediness for your fine content. Showing these same two rounds out of Sir Browning's intended 1911 with a 5" would've been great just for comparison. I can't remember how many 1911s I've shot but I have one that is an extension of my hand. I can walk down the fence row and shoot 12oz cans and 16.9oz water bottles by just pointing & firing while on the move. No sites, one handed with 230gr. And the HST is glorious out of a 5". But thank you so much for demonstrating that the HST isn't the right pill for the G30. If only I were 20 something again I'd strap that 40oz+ 1911 on every day like I used to.
@chretired
8 ай бұрын
This was a very unusual test Tools. The standard pressure doing better than the +P. Those +P's seemed to have had some really inconsisten performance. But, this is the reason we watch and respect you testing videos. HST's didn't perform up to snuff in this test even though they'd get job done. Like you said you're paying a premium price but not getting the performance. Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
@poisonPpaully
8 ай бұрын
Yeah right before you said it I was thinking the same thing seems like 800fps is the sweet spot
@ccoop2416
8 ай бұрын
I instantly had the same thought 800fps is the threshold for hst to expand 😅👌
@HopefulForever-ln5xm
8 ай бұрын
I handload 200grn XTPs at +P+ for a govt 1911. I need to have them chrono'd to see how much velocity I'm averaging. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought you shouldn't fire +P out of a Glock because it's an unsupported chamber.
@thebunkerwithdocroberts.7755
6 ай бұрын
Cor Bon makes a nice 185gr +P for 45ACP. Winchester Ranger "T Series" 230gr 45ACP is also a good choice. Both do well through a shorter barrel.
@alphahotel3446
8 ай бұрын
Maybe a test of hydra shok also out of the same barrel.
@johncoleman2495
8 ай бұрын
When I carry a .45 which is a lot, it's either set up properly and loaded with .45 super with a 230gr Gold dot or depending on barrel length an old Remington 185gr +p golden saber or the old Corbon 200gr +p flying ashtray. Not only do they all perform in gel but in tissue as well. Game animals tell the real story. Even smaller thickly muscled animals like woodchucks show you what a bullet does in real tissue.
@nchintalapani
8 ай бұрын
Friend, Just a suggestion/request, can you also do accuracy tests for the JHP rounds you test, I tested some Norma MHP 9mm today and the POI and POA were off, this might be a good data point to show case. Thanks for the great education you provide to us netizens.
@scottmorgan1016
8 ай бұрын
Proof in the jelly. I think 180 to 200 grain is better. More speed
@terryrichards8645
8 ай бұрын
Awesome for you and me I’m impressed! Yep I didn’t think it was gonna happen either ! 😊 thanks for great video. Will definitely load the plus HST. in my 4 1/4 Ruger. Probably would be a good load.😊
@user-dt8xy7ig2d
8 ай бұрын
Love the test just bought the +ps now I might be switching back to lighter. Wonder if ambient tempatures are making the difference. Warm bullets vs cold soaked bullets(. Hot metal being more malleable. Notice the very first shot was way low. The barrel was cold. Cold steel shrinks so the barrel was tighter. Hot steel expands so when the barrel warmed up the barrel diameter got larger.the stiff and tight test proved it makes a difference
@ronaldbarnes8302
8 ай бұрын
Definitely surprised about the inconsistency of my go to brand. Have some standard pressure 230’s for my G36. Thanks for another nice jelly test Tools!
@SmallHandsBigBite
8 ай бұрын
Jogs my brain. I love your tests and it just popped to mind that Underwood has been running sales lately. Would love to see you test some 45acp Extreme defender or penetrators vs FMJ or a traditional proven hollow point; Speer Gold Dot or HST's.
@billsiegloff2150
8 ай бұрын
Nice test Brian. As mentioned before 230s are just to heavy to get sufficient velocity to expand reliably. All these tests are close aswell imagine a 25 yard shot they will be under expansion threshold even with a 5" barrel. 185s are perfect 200s are the heaviest to reliably expand in the 45acp
@jdk_360
8 ай бұрын
Interesting. I have the +P HST loaded in my 45ACP Glock 41 5”. From what I recall hornady critical duty, 220 grain +P was one of the best 45s you tested getting close to the 990 FPS box velocity and expanding the way they designed. I guess I’m just going with the critical duty from now on if I buy more in 45.
@jasonkeating9958
8 ай бұрын
Would be great if some of the private loaders like underwood, buffalo bore, and the other players who load the hot stuff, Maybe they can't get it in bulk at a decent price but even if they had to buy it from wherever at a higher price and just charge what they need to to make it worth while, A few awesome hst underwood rounds that would be 100% awesome and incredible would be a 230gr hst +p+ at 1150fps+ And the 1 I think would be the best is the 357hst 154gr loaded into 357sig at about 1400+ that would be incredible as 357sig seems to be a round that never fails.
@go4broke407
8 ай бұрын
Yup. Heard guys shot w a 45 say it was really slow
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