‘ My highest goal isn’t to keep a relationship, it’s to speak God’s truth’. Absolutely! 100%
@astrongmama
Ай бұрын
This is a great statement until he said we should call a man she. As soon as you do that, you actually leave God's truth in the dust
@bigwhisky6136
Ай бұрын
Notice how he always says God's truth and not The truth? He has moral relativistic learnings.
@Naomi_OB
Ай бұрын
And then uses a study by Greg Coles who calls himself a "gay Christian" which is a completely unbiblical worldview, and says that God created him that way and doesn't expect he needs to change.
@carrie_k
Ай бұрын
Gods truth is THE TRUTH. People in this current generation have developed a mentality that everyone “has their own truth.” Then morality is not absolute and it is just relevant. Hitler has his truth, Mother Teresa had her truth, you or anyone else can have their own truth. All cannot be true! ‘A’ and ‘non-A’ cannot be true at the same time. We illiterate GODS TRUTH because it is truth. He is the creator of all things and the king of the universe. He created all in all, time and all matter.
@seaglass.jen86
18 күн бұрын
@@bigwhisky6136so if someone says “God’s truth”, that means that he doesn’t believe in The Truth? Judge with proper judgement.
@millenialfalcon8243
Ай бұрын
If you affirm a lie to "get in the door", but then later admit you dont really believe that, you are a liar. Why would they listen to you after that?
@GeorgiasGarden
Ай бұрын
If this was true I would have attended the gay marriage of my niece.
@Born_again1984
Ай бұрын
Mic 🎤 drop
@ZekeMagnar
Ай бұрын
Yup.
@dovh49
Ай бұрын
Not only that but you deny God as the creator when you use the wrong pronouns.
@AbstractMindsThinkAlike
Ай бұрын
Remember Rahab.
@markrichard3364
Ай бұрын
I can not imagine Jesus affirming anything that was untrue. In public or in private.
@Jasminestealth1
Ай бұрын
@@markrichard3364 i think Jesus would call them one of his !
@markrichard3364
Ай бұрын
@@Jasminestealth1 🥴
@mrskerry3544
Ай бұрын
@@Jasminestealth1based on what, Jasmine.
@Jasminestealth1
Ай бұрын
@@mrskerry3544 is that a real question? are you up to understanding? or stuck like sean?
@ZekeMagnar
Ай бұрын
@@Jasminestealth1 Whether He would call them "one of his" or not is context-dependent, but He wouldn't call HIM a HER. To think that He would is the height of insanity.
@FoxRunImages
Ай бұрын
Both Tim and Sean seem to have missed the fact that Timothy’s mother was Jewish, making Timothy an uncircumcised Jewish male. That’s why Paul circumcised Timothy, so he would not be viewed in the synagogue as non-observant of Torah. Titus was completely Greek, and therefore not expected to be circumcised.
@cirdan4170
Ай бұрын
Good point! On top of the fact, that circumcision is in principle a good thing, instituted by God. In contrast, the whole trans-sexuality thing is absolutely demonic. A more fitting parallelism rather than circumcision would be ritualistic tattoos/scarring, as forbidden by the law. Paul would never suggest timothy to get a pagan ritualistic tattoo to "open conversation with the pagans". Also, the pinch of incense to the emperor as God could easily be reinterpreted as "just doing it to open up goodwill to the Romans" but instead the early Christians opted to die rather than participate in pagan rituals. These things are a bit more on the nose pagan, but I do think they are akin to pronoun usage as an expression of a subchristian world view.
@laurakosch
Ай бұрын
Good point!
@skai1727
19 күн бұрын
Thank you!
@kevinwayne7516
17 күн бұрын
Something that surprises me in this discussion is that no one is considering Timothy's option. Timothy is the one that literally had SKIN in the game. I believe that Timothy wanted to minister to the Jews, in order to accomplish that he needed to eliminate a barrier that would hinder his ability to do that. Y'all make it sound like Timothy had no say in this and it was Paul trying to make a profound point. Technically, circumcision is a form of gender mutilation. Certainly not to the same extent as a sex change. This was a thought provoking debate, thanks.
@millenialfalcon8243
Ай бұрын
Satan is the father of lies. Why would I affirm a lie by using a condradictory preferred pronoun?
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
Satan is actually the mother of lies.
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
@@adamruuth5562satan is actually the mother AND father of lies, as s/he is a tr@nsgend3r pervert baphom3t goat with male and female parts. 🐐 👑
@kensey007
Ай бұрын
Whatever you say millenialfalcon8243. Totally glad we are only using actual given names around here because using a preferred name is lying, right millenialfalcon8243?
@millenialfalcon8243
Ай бұрын
@kensey007 No. I agree with Sean. I don't have an issue with preferred names. Names are arbitrary and do not have an underlying, foundational truth to them, like gender. And there are many types of names. Legal names, nick names, screen names, title names, etc... And when you sign up for Google, it asks what you want to be called (screen name) separate from your legal name. I have not claimed this is my legal name and the Bible does not say that I can have and use only one name. Not a lie.
@kensey007
Ай бұрын
@millenialfalcon8243 All words are arbitrary. There are languages other than English for example. The Bible does not say you can have and only use one pronoun.
@loganholdaway769
Ай бұрын
This is a gross misappropriation of the verse "All things to all people...". We are permitted to become all things to all people when it comes to non-ethical issues. For example, we are permitted to become poor to to poor, rich to the rich, a surfer dude to the surfer dudes, but not a drunk to the drunks. To "become" is to take on the characteristics of a particular demographic. With poor, it may be wearing drab clothes, with the rich, it may be taking on their customs of sitting up straight and speaking properly, with surfer dudes it may be saying things like "that was totally wicked" but what is there to take on with trans? Everything about their demographic is wicked. There's nothing amoral to emulate, including calling them by a preferred pronoun. Christians need to stop worrying about being winsom for the sake of getting an ear. To worry about how our words will land on someones ear, or to try to win them like a man wins the heart of a woman is wrong. It places all the trust in ourselves rather than in God. We need to unashamedly preach the law. What the world needs is a Savior, and we're not helping them to know that when we're so worried about "maintaining the relationship" or any of these other excuses we come up with to get out of placing ourselves in uncomfortable situations for the sake of Christ. It's never right to give any credence to Satan's lies. It's never right to call someone by their preferred pronoun.
@joss2651
14 күн бұрын
Perfect examples. The daughter of one of my closest friends recently transitioned with mastectomy and testosterone, which has grossly changed her voice. Her mom just told me that she’s super lonely and I couldn’t help but think how due to her autism, she already struggled, making friendships but now she’s just made it incredibly more difficult to do so. As humans we are drawn into relationship with people we tend to identify with so she has just essentially isolated herself that much further. What I would say, though is that real compassion and love can speak volumes and must. The first thing I do when I see her is look her directly in the eye and give her a huge hug and tell her how much we’ve missed her, without using any pronouns I just stick with referring to her as “D”. And I look for ways to ask her about her life and her work and remind her of her brilliant mind when she starts talking about the science of the plants and nature that she loves (she really does have a brilliant mind- we have to look for the beauty first whenever we can. Go out of our way to see people and remind them of their gifting before these other conversations even have a chance to start. If you see a trans person doing something awesome, make sure you tell them.). So far, I believe that she knows that I am someone who actually cares about her. But I won’t give an opportunity for my words to condone the lie that is holding her in bondage.
@DonovanSpaanstra
13 күн бұрын
@@joss2651thank you for sharing this story. Amen !
@brucegoff3749
Ай бұрын
I'm glad for the charitable dialogue. Some questions I would've loved to ask in this discussion are: Is there a limit to "all things to all people"? Would Paul have said, "to the Judaizers I become like a Judaizer"? Should we apply it in ministering to racists? "To the racists I become like a racist"? It seems to me there is a limiting principle to 1 Cor 9. Was Paul intending to create a limitless application, or was he referring specifically to the distinction between Jews and Gentiles (those with the law and those without)?
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
@@brucegoff3749 fire response 🔥
@SSmith-dn9ib
Ай бұрын
Paul said he was all things to all men( to win people to the Gospel, what?...... by deception??). Was Jesus? NO. Big difference. When Paul contradicts Jesus I stick to Jesus.
@Maranathacha
Ай бұрын
Agreed. It sounds more like Paul meant that he would be willing surrender his rights.
@neilenglish7433
Ай бұрын
Short answer: absolutely not.
@eugenetswong
Ай бұрын
I hate seeing this guy as a guest. People like him are destroying the church. He'd probably get his performers to simulate gay sex, if he thought that it could bring about a justifiable end. He mentioned having a wife, but he sounds like he is gay.
@MilitantAntiAtheism
Ай бұрын
He is making it a possibility that we should bow to the devil, which means he is dishonest. I believe this channel is satanic.
@georgemonnatjr.172
Ай бұрын
Did you watch the whole thing, including the part about Paul and Acts 16 and 17?
@theworld6710
Ай бұрын
You realize you can’t tell whether a lot of people are trans or not? Just using the preferred pronouns is the correct option with anyone, let alone if you’d like to reach out to them.
@simsjones1977
Ай бұрын
I stand with Rosaria Butterfield on this. Absolutely not.
@markmolocznik5561
Ай бұрын
Did Jesus ever compromise to speak the truth in love? I struggle to find examples of this.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
Right, did Jesus ever affirm idol-worship in order to reach the Samaritans? Did he affirm fornication to reach the prostitutes?
@adamr.6889
Ай бұрын
This brother says we can disagree in Christian freedom on pronouns use, but he can barely fathom the idea that it might be wrong to communicate a falsehood. A falsehood, in fact, that is leading a person further and further from Christ. His hypotheticals are a stretch. I don't know how else to view this other than a capitulation hiding behind the excuse of 'charity' or 'maintaining the the relationship.'
@obed-edom8409
Ай бұрын
Excellent modeling of a cordial conversation on a very controversial topic in Christian circles. It's good to see friends wrestling with these issues together as brothers in Christ. Thank you for this!
@jeffreylucia2499
23 күн бұрын
Not in my church or my community. So, no controversy.
@josephbrown1614
Ай бұрын
This was SO difficult to watch. Christians are really good at making simple things sound very complicated. And, in reality, truth IS simple. And in this particular case, you NEVER lie to someone so as to (worst case) affirm their sin, or (best case) their misunderstanding of reality.
@jacksonslagle3253
Ай бұрын
It's unfortunate that two people attempt a nuanced, thoughtful conversation, and most of the comments on it are dismissive, unsubstantiated one phrase answers that run against the spirit of the video they're commenting on.
@AugustoAniano
Ай бұрын
Exactly my thought! It’s just sad to read the shallow representation of Christian values.
@arditienthusiast8384
Ай бұрын
They're doing that because it isn't a nuanced discussion. Even entertaining it as a debate is giving it way more credit than it deserves. God made them male and female. What do the chromosomes say? Discussion complete.
@AugustoAniano
Ай бұрын
@@arditienthusiast8384 2 members of Biola faculty think it is and you just dismiss it :) how can you not see the irony?
@arditienthusiast8384
Ай бұрын
@@AugustoAniano A sign of weakness of the stability of truth in the church. That combined with the brainwashing of democratic liberalism that has attached itself onto the church and society at large. The notion that all things are up to debate and that no truth cannot be questioned. I wonder if the church of the 1st- 19th century would even debate blatant perversions.
@midimusicforever
Ай бұрын
@@arditienthusiast8384 That's not what they are discussing though.
@Believer1in3
Ай бұрын
Nope! I refuse to participate in their delusional behavior!
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
This is funny, because non-Christians think Christians are delusional. So let's deal with that beam in your own eye before you go cast aspersions on people. Be a generous Christian
@paulacoyle5685
Ай бұрын
If you have someone suffering from schizophrenia in your family, then telling them that they’re delusional, isn’t going to get you anywhere as far as getting them the help they need. So don’t be too self righteous nor too sure of yourself as concerns how you would react.
@Believer1in3
Ай бұрын
@@paulacoyle5685, I have trans family members and gay ones. The trans family member has went back to his given name. Love him and still don’t accept that stupidity when he went through it. They know how I feel and I call them by their given name. At least with schizophrenia they can take meds to stop their delusions. Many Trans are doing it for a deep need for attention. Some have body dysmorphia disorder. Both illnesses are treatable in that case. Loving someone is being able to tell them the truth even when it hurts and may ruin your relationship. I don’t compromise on what I believe. Never have.
@kevincampbell1112
Ай бұрын
@paulacoyle5685 you are unfairly setting up a straw man argument using a different mental condition as grounds.l, and you present it as though we should all be therapists, which most are not.
@KafkameetsPlath
Ай бұрын
Are you talking about Sean and the man? Sean STAND UP FOR TRUTH!! Not “possibly”, hypothetically if we were in relationship, maybe for business…I AM REPULSED!! I want to vomit Sean! I love you so very much but this is not of God! Don’t you love the little ones? Children, adults , anyone who is lost being tormented by REPULSIVE LYING SPIRITS THAT WANT TO KILL THEM AND sift you like wheat! A little leaven leavens the WHOLE loaf! God is not the author of confusion! I am willing to fall on my face for Jesus, I am willing to talk to you one on one or on your channel and be a fool for Christ or be perceived as a crazy Christian among those that say: “It’s not that serious!” “Not everything is spiritual!” I am nothing without Christ Jesus my Lord. Tell me Sean is calling them by “preferred pronouns” affirming their identify in Christ or affirming their identity in satan? The dark powers of this world influence thought, the only thing that can stop it is the blood of Jesus. I say this in love Sean. God bless you and keep you in Jesus name. ❤
@bjsauerbrei6632
Ай бұрын
They keep pushing things down the field because we keep giving in.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
This!
@hiraethreizu1627
Ай бұрын
As someone who is a Christian and is in the field of Medicine, I rather view and refer to a person in an objective sense by their design, a man or a women made in the image of God. (I explained in the comment below why it is vital for us in the field of medicine to use the proper pronouns based on their birth, this is in context of our own Native Language and Medical Industry in our Country. I know it is different in the West). Also, the story of Naomi who wants to be called Mara, but the Bible refused to subscribe to it, and instead, the bible repeatedly called her by her true name as Naomi may also be a fascinating point of discussion for this problem.
@jacobandgeckos
Ай бұрын
Refusal to use people's preferred pronouns really does stress them out, and this stress can make an urgent medical crisis worse. Regaldless of your beliefs, if you are in a job where you see patients, please use people's prononus. At my job's safety training, we are told to avoid medical facilities where we know preferred pronouns will not be used, because this actually makes people less safe.
@RyanClark-gr9yb
Ай бұрын
@@jacobandgeckos If the whole point of hospitals and medical facilities were to not stress people out, why would any doctor tell a patient that their going to die? I think that the best way to stay stress free is have the Word of God in highest esteem and not view anyone else's input anywhere close. Now as to whether there are times to use pronouns for people is a debatable thing among Christians, because if one uses it just to not provoke a trans, then that's okay. But using it among minors, no. Paul had his method with Timothy on circumcision, but Jesus was completely different.
@philagon
Ай бұрын
@@jacobandgeckoswrong
@hiraethreizu1627
Ай бұрын
@@jacobandgeckos I usually refer to them by their name when talking to them (especially with our Mother Tongue in our Country since pronouns is not commonly used when talking to someone directly). While in regards of talking about the patients with our colleagues, other workers, and in our Medical records, it is vital for us to use the proper pronouns and gender established on their birth to avoid misunderstandings. Patient and Sample identification is very vital in our job. Patient misidentification is where most errors can occur in our department (70% of errors actually based on our medical books and studies), and not only can we lose our license with such mistake, but a patient may even be further harmed instead of helping them. So I prefer to use the proper pronouns to avoid miscommunication and misidentification, not only of religious belief, but for the sake of our patients well-being and proper treatment. So, like I said, I rather view and refer to them in the objective sense of Clinical Perspective in this area of concern for our work. Now patient relationship is a different topic, which I wouldn't know too much since thankfully this isn't a big deal yet in the Medical Industry in our Country, given our native language and cultural upbringing where we can respect a person without the necessity of affirming pronouns or gender. So even though we call a person with the wrong pronouns, most would still understood it as a form of respect and some wouldn't mind at all given the context of our Language and Culture. So honestly, I'm thankful to God this isn't a big deal in my line of work in our country. However, this problem of gender identity does slowly creeps in on our social tapestry nowadays too, thus my input based on the Bible and Clinical Laboratory Perspective. So I stand by what I said. Now I don't know how it is for the Medical Industry in the West, so I can't say the same. I am talking about my experience here in my Mother Tongue and our Country.
@mchiaramonte3
Ай бұрын
@hiraethreizu1627 I applaud your patience in giving such a logical and thorough response to the previous commenter. I don't know how people can disregard the fact that men and women are physically different. Therefore in order to treat them you must know whether you're treating a male or female. In a sane world the patient would want you to be clear about their biological sex to get the best treatment possible. Then again, I'm sad to say we've lost all sanity in some parts of the world.
@kathleencassel1350
Ай бұрын
But would Paul say, “ To the sinner I become sinner”? To call black white is to speak untruth. To say male is female is to lie and violate my conscience. Still in a personal situation, I would affirm the struggle, and I would ask for the person to let me explain my difficulty in light of my allegiance to Christ and to his love for all of us. We must speak the truth lovingly. I could most definitely call that person by his preferred name, though not his preferred pronoun. This is a real struggle for my friend who got into trouble at her high school for misgendering a student in a conversation. There was no extended discussion of Biblical sexuality. There were simply the rules! This is the bullying that we must expose.
@BHFWaterloo
Ай бұрын
But boils down to who are we trying to please God or man
@GeorgiasGarden
Ай бұрын
Answer? NO! I will not do that!
@aletheiaquest
Ай бұрын
Brother McDowell, I believe you were absolutely spot-on in this discussion. I shared the same responses you had, and was hoping you'd use the response you did regarding circumcision; it was my first thought. I believe this channel and your example is in the "spirit" of your father, and will continue to honor him long after he's gone. His attitude toward you when you were going through your period of doubt/struggle is exemplified by you on your channel. You are taking his example of love to you and sharing that with anyone who comes on your channel. We are also recipients of your dad's love to you, meaning his act of love and open discussion has trickled down to us. So, you can thank your dad for loving us so much.
@SeanMcDowell
Ай бұрын
Thank you for such kind words!
@TheNephilim101
Ай бұрын
Setting up a conversation with pandering to a lie or deception is WRONG. You STAND for GOD’S TRUTH or you don’t.
@sophiahsiang9953
Ай бұрын
Thank you for the conversation, for me it isn't about whether to use the pronouns or not, it is really about how christians sit down and discuss controversial topics like this with love and honesty, I am so glad you two are modeling it for us, this is very precious!! Thank you again!!
@shao7620
Ай бұрын
This is so interesting! I'm not even a christian but I loved how this conversation flowed and to me it's clear that there is "winner" or "loser" here. Just people making their perspectives very clear. If I followed the converation properly, Tim's perspective is that he wants the use the pronoun and then within the unfolding conversation unpack what he means when he uses pronouns and explain his world view. Which in my opinion is very effective communication and I would feel very heard and understood in a conversation like that. Sean on the other hand looks more at the cultural consequences and the underpinning of the pronoun trend. If I got him correctly his view is that the way we speak forms world views and provides the context in what can be communicated in the first place. And I can definitely also relate to that,. Because, as a liberal person the reason I would insist on pronouns or another peson would feel hurt is because they think you are wrong and to Sean that would feel like an imposition on him. Maybe for him he would have to twist his convictions and pretend in order to just have a conversation with another person. I would really like a part2 of this wheree you expand on how you would navigate conversations with people whi want inclusive pronouns in the work place and the practical feasability of your position.
@Balcamion79
Ай бұрын
Thanks for giving a civil and well reasoned comment. I love to see where people with different ideologies can interact with respect and integrity. 🫡
@plyboard9
19 күн бұрын
Yes! Well said.
@formergoat9257
Ай бұрын
Calling someone what they are not would be lying, which is a sin.
@kensey007
Ай бұрын
So your given name really is "formergoat9257." Wild.
@brando3342
25 күн бұрын
@@kensey007 Wow that is an awful, and thoughtless response. Yes, “formergoat9257” is in fact the name he has given himself on KZitem. Yes, he is “formergoat9257” because that is a name that one can establish which does not explicitly conflict with reality in its affirmation. Sometimes a little thought should be applied before saying silly things.
@kensey007
25 күн бұрын
@brando3342 So labels people ascribe to themselves are arbitrary rather than being a sinful lie?
@cynthiahample7793
Ай бұрын
He's convinced that lying is how you show empathy.
@seaglass.jen86
18 күн бұрын
I don’t think that’s true. I don’t agree with Dr. Tim’s stance, but it seems to be more about creating an open door with the person so that truth can be spoken and received, not being empathetic.
@ChristisLord2023
19 күн бұрын
I am a father who has dealt with this issue with my own daughter. It hurt everyone in our family and causes breaks that we cannot fix on our own. I showed her love that is unconditional, and insisted that the God who made her knows her best. I educated her on the roots of the LGBT movement and the dangers of it. I explained that I would always love her and that I could not lie to her even to make her feel better. I prayed a lot, I cried a lot, and I submitted this to God and His wisdom. In His grace He saw us through, my daughter understands that she is a female and accepts that. Her biggest struggle was that she is unique compared to many girls and was trying to understand how to deal with that. She is in a much better place now with her sense of self and her understanding of God's design. I don't understand the desire to comprise o and God's truth in an effort to help someone when His truth is what is needed.
@DonovanSpaanstra
13 күн бұрын
Wow what a testimony I wish you could’ve said these words in this broadcast. God bless you and your family
@besseljm1
Ай бұрын
No. Conversation done. :)
@themagicman1986
Ай бұрын
Comments like this are exactly why this conversation is important.
@KafkameetsPlath
Ай бұрын
This makes me upset! I appreciate you Sean for doing this on your channel, this is light vs darkness, truth vs lies! There is no in between! We care more about the souls of those who feel like strangers in their own bodies than the world and than this man proclaims! Their souls belong to God! And telling them lies and encouraging death is a sin and repulsive in the sight of God! God loves them and we care that their souls be saved, and we are willing to disciple them and walk alongside them throughout the whole journey and serve them as Christ has told us to do (Matthew 28:19)! Not encourage them to do surgery and identify as what a demon told them to identify as that is contrary to how God uniquely crafted them in His image! He loves them unconditionally! Christ DIED FOR THEIR SINS!!! WHY ARE YOU TAKING THEIR HAND AND GIVING IT TO THE ENEMY FOR THE ENEMY TO HOLD AND DESTROY THEIR LIVES???!!! Then you wash your bloody hands clean with manure and say: “oh well”. Why are you endorsing the yoke of depression, anxiety?! For those who are struggling, please be encouraged, don’t give up, take heart! Help is here! The Lord strong and mighty! He will help you, He made your body, it’s not a mistake. It’s the Lord’s and He made you for a purpose! You have a reason to live, ask Jesus to help you, I promise from experience He will help you. No matter how small or big it is, He will take all of it, turn it around in your favor and use it for good! For your good and the good of others. Romans 8:38. 1st Corinthians 1:3-4 God will comfort you in ALL your afflications when you turn to Him, He is the God of ALL comfort. Don’t grow weary in doing good, and don’t be afraid, the Lord is able to keep you from stumbling and falling back into sin, depend on Him and abide in Him, He is able. Repent, and rejoice because He is able to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness. Keep your eyes on Jesus Hebrews 12:1). ❤
@bigwhisky6136
Ай бұрын
The title of this debate should just be called moral relativism vs moral objectivity. That's the fundamental pillar that undergirds these debates every time. The guest puts significant weight on subjective feeling and interpretation, while Sean is trying to charitably hint that truth is objective. In my assumption, the guest doesn't want to be "mean" or "confrontational" and doesn't like how he feels when he doesn't affirm people. That doesn't matter. We are not called to be nice people, we are called to be kind, loving, disciplined, righteous. There is a very big difference between nice and kind. Lastly his justification is essentially consequentialism. "If I didn't use the pronoun The conversation would end", ends don't justify the means. Truth is the highest virtue, I don't remember Jesus capitulating to falsehood in order to serve a "higher good" demand. The Almighty was always truthful D regardless of how much it stung, and showed us that way comes with a heavy price but it is the only way. (As you watch pay attention, every argument the guest employs is an emotional appeal wrapped in an anecdote.)
@LexRex717
Ай бұрын
absolutely positively not. we only speak truth.
@kstevenson3504
Ай бұрын
How do you deal with Acts 23:6 where Paul says he is a Pharisee when he didn't believe what Pharisees believed. Pharisees today would reject that he was still a Pharisee. Likely back then, they would viewed him as a heretic. He used this rhetoric solely because it aligned with his beliefs about the resurrection. How do you deal with this? At John 4:16, Jesus said: "He told her, 'Go, call your husband and come back.' 17'I have no husband,' she replied. Jesus said to her, 'You are right when you say you have no husband. 18The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.'"” For the sake of rhetoric, Jesus will affirm something, at least initially, that is not true.
@falconer15138
Ай бұрын
I prefer proper grammar. Therefore I am HE, because, I am a man.
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
Is grammar more important to you than trans rights?
@AprilAnnette
Ай бұрын
@adamruuth5562 is that a statement within a question? I think you know the answer.
@Jasminestealth1
Ай бұрын
@@adamruuth5562 i would just say respect...no one has a "right".. buy we are guided to share love
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
@@AprilAnnette Yeah,. I do. No hate like Christian love.
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
@@Jasminestealth1 I have no idea what your sentence means.
@9VoltVagrant
Ай бұрын
40:18 Maybe I’m wrong about this but using Acts 16:3 as an illustration of the principle for using preferred pronouns doesn’t really seem to work because the result of Paul’s decision (Timothy’s circumcision) doesn’t in any way violate or compromise God’s established law and the other (subjective gender identity and/or assignment) is in opposition to God’s established law and order. Either way, wonderful discussion and a great example of how to pursue the truth together rather than one up each other which seems to be so rampant these days❤
@angelastars27
Ай бұрын
No no no no no that’s the answer to this ridiculous question
@natashamiller4860
Ай бұрын
We are called to speak truth to a world full of confusion and disorder. Also, if you start your interactions being willing to use their preferred pronouns, but only until you get your foot in the door, how is that NOT a bait and switch?
@myho-pe8655
Ай бұрын
Yes! The theology of getting fired. I work in health care as a front office receptionist. I see from a behind the scenes perspective and over the phone interactive position throughout the health system’s primary and specialty care clinics. I see the confusion in charts when scrubbing for insurance verifications mainly, so I pray that the person would have an encounter with God or the Holy Spirit. Over the phone is different. Many times I’ve had to do mental gymnastics to address the sex or name. Names are one thing and largely easy enough (even though some names are just out there). We choose or retain nicknames, it’s weird but not impossible. But it’s hard to use preferred pronouns because I know it’s not true, valid or going to last. The real bummer is the kids, even into what we call adulthood. Being ushered into this pathway before they’re truly able to process long term consequences of decisions that may not truly be theirs. It breaks my heart because God knows it’s all going on. Will I ever have an opportunity to impact that person’s life in a meaningful way for the kingdom? I pray! Because I can’t carry on over the phone when they’ve called to schedule an appointment or engage a virtual doctor visit. I pray!
@peterandcigdem
Ай бұрын
I think this conversation was absolutely necessary; and the way it was handled, absolutely edifying to the church. There is a solid biblical answer to this question, and the answer is "no", but there is a lot of nuance in coming to that conclusion that i think is missed by a lot of people. The presentation here was gentle, kind, and unyielding: in truth and in love, as we ought to be. If we are willing to lose our job or risk a relationship over an issue, we had better be knee deep in God's word, praying, and walking in love! We should also avoid hypocrisy, ensuring our unwillingness to support the lie of gender fluidity is not undercut by making or supporting other false statements (on any topic). Scoffing also reveals a lack of love that is necessary in approaching our friends and family dealing with gender dysphoria. I personally and professionally appreciate these brothers taking the time to prepare and hold this discussion and allowing us to be a part of it!
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
You dont need an hour long video for this when you can easily answer it in a 1 minute short.
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
So answer it. And answer it in a way that Jesus would approve of.
@Unknown-hb3id
Ай бұрын
@@adamruuth5562 "No."
@adamruuth5562
Ай бұрын
@@Unknown-hb3id Motivate your answer!
@Unknown-hb3id
Ай бұрын
@@adamruuth5562 No thanks.
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
@@adamruuth5562that's quite the demanding tone. Nevertheless, I'll bite. The video presents these 2 main ideas: on one hand, using preferred pronouns is presented as an act of linguistic hospitality and cultural sensitivity. Paul's circumcision of Timothy in Acts 16 and his approach on Mars Hill in Acts 17, which may foster respectful, open conversations about faith are referenced. On the other hand, refraining from using preferred pronouns can be viewed as upholding biblical teachings on gender and identity, akin to Paul's refusal to circumcise Titus in Galatians. Christians must not inadvertently endorse an ideology that contradicts the inherent dignity and identity as created by God. I would only endorse anything about the first view if it leads to upholding the second view. If it doesn't, throw it in the trash because love, as shown in 1 Corinthians 13, includes the ingredient of "rejoices in Truth," which is equally as important as all the other aspects and attributes of divine love. Divine love fails to truly reflect God's nature when it tosses truth by the wayside in the effort to build relationship. Paul never did that, even in the biblical examples used in the video to bolster the first viewpoint. I also think the 2 in the video came to this same basic conclusion and point of agreement. I also think all of what I said is a decent summary of the hour long argument, and would easily fit in a short. God bless you. ❤️
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
Ephesians 5 answers the question this way: Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret. But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them, for the light makes everything visible.
@Jasminestealth1
Ай бұрын
@@bethezebra are you emplting trans people "Do" something? what "deeds" ? would this not also refer to where it says why do you worry about the spec in anothers eye when you have a log in yours? or how about in Romans 14 where it says who are you to judge another servant? keep it between you and God? or are you just hupocritical?
@bethezebra
Ай бұрын
@@Jasminestealth1 Do you want to actually have a mutually respectful discussion on what scripture teaches on the things you've brought up, or are you in fact hypocritically judging ME for what I've shared and are not interested in further dialogue? ❤️
@Jasminestealth1
Ай бұрын
@@bethezebra feel free :) as a matter of fact i would be willing to give me email... the challenge is - i doubt either of us would be open to change... even in this video and responses ive read - the fundamental idea is (you believe you have and obligation to speak truth) the bottom line is defining "truth" ... scripture does not define who is and who is not a man.. i can argue God only created Eve after bringing every other creature to him... and that he saw man should not be alone... God does not say and a woman has c cup breast and a vagina ... he does not say women will create large gametes ... or are xx.... the irony i think.. as a tangent .... men are part women... but most women are no parts male... as in men have XY and women are XX ...logic would say man is half woman... or if you say its the X of man that made woman - then women are two times more "man" then a man is.... my point is not scripture. - its the fundamental "truth" of identity! i do not condemn you - nor would i insist on your vocabulary - i would suggest - do you chose that to bring glory to the father? or pride?
@justinkuk6613
Ай бұрын
While I appreciated the conversation, I feel like Tim is completely missing the larger context here. He repeatedly uses the context of a sit-down conversation in which he has the opportunity to fully explain his view of the Biblical definition of gender. However, that is not what most of us normies are dealing with or the primary place where pronoun misusage occurs. We are asked in business or school settings to both give our pronouns and use the pronouns of others in public settings even if it violates our conscience and tacitly promotes a harmful and idolatrous worldview. Tim is concerned with the person he is conversation with, which I agree is important, but he completely ignores the rest of the world that is watching public use of language. I have asked Christians who disagree with me on this the following: “You are concerned about maintaining an opportunity to witness to the person who is asking you to give and use pronouns (an opportunity that often is never take). How do you know that graciously refusing to go along with the pronoun bullying will not be a witness of courage and clarity of thought to all the other people in the room?” And what about all the other children, such as in a school setting, who are observing our public use of language? I don’t want to make too much of Tim calling Caitlyn Jenner “she”, but as Sean points out, there was no need to use incorrect pronouns to maintain a relationship there. While the conversation did not fully explore when Tim would not use incorrect pronouns in public communication, I find it at best very misleading to center his argument on the more rare case of counseling parents of gender dysphoric youth with out addressing the far more common situation of every day public communication.
@marthamotorwalla2111
Ай бұрын
😊
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
Plus, the ironic thing is that a sit-down conversation with a man doesn’t require any 3rd-person pronouns. You usually speak using “you” - “God made you, God loves you, Christ died for you, etc.” If a parent won’t converse unless you call their boy a girl, you could say “your child” is made by God, loved, etc. Tim’s entire premise is faulty. The offense the Lost feel is with the message, not the messenger.
@janicephillips6813
2 күн бұрын
I agree, I was actually surprised that Tim referred to Caitlyn Jenner as "she" in this context, because it made me think that subconsciously Tim thinks of Caitlyn Jenner as female which is one reason why Caitlyn wants others to use preferred pronouns in the first place, to change our minds by changing our language. As a professor of communications, Tim should know better, or at least have a better understanding of the slippery slope of "inclusive language".
@darrenplies9034
Ай бұрын
This episode helped me affirm that I would not take certain classes taught by certain individuals at the Bible Institute with some of the biblical lines of justification used in this discussion by the one side individual
@Joe-bg9gi
Ай бұрын
Biola has lost their way. They’ve adopted to the world.
@bradleyungles8605
Ай бұрын
Honestly I think the answer is so obvious we shouldn't even need to have this discussion. Some conversations just don't need to be had.
@joannaboll2405
Ай бұрын
I have a thought I have that I wish they would have discussed. If you are using someone’s preferred pronoun to avoid offending them, I have a hard time believing most Christians would go on to articulate a biblical view of gender and sexuality to that person, because that is offensive and could just as easily shut down the conversation. Even if the Christian does go on to share truth, wouldn’t the person rather know what you believe initially than to think you affirm their identity only to learn later that you don’t? I would feel betrayed. Additionally, John 14:6 is far more offensive than Genesis 1:27.
@brendaweber7392
Ай бұрын
I recommend reading Rosario Butterfield's article and testimony of repentance from her prior position on pronoun hospitality. And Laura Perry, in her book Transgender to Transformed, speaks about how her parents not using her new name name and pronouns were a constant reminder that she was not male or a man.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
Spot on.
@seehu52
Ай бұрын
Awesome debate. Both had some really solid points that I hadn’t really thought about.
@mandys6525
Ай бұрын
I'm with Sean regarding pronoun usage. I won't use them, doing so most certainly affirms. In very specific circumstances, if they have changed to a different legal name, I would use it. If meeting up with parents of or someone who demands you use the pronouns, I would meet at a neutral place(reserved library room, coffee shop,etc) never on the territory of either people.
@peteralbrecht473
Ай бұрын
pronouns are just a distraction. cut the nonsense. Jesus wirh compassion would have said. Go home and sin no more.
@gilwaa
Ай бұрын
I appreciate the charitable conversation and Dr McDowell’s responses especially. I believe one of the central questions is, is using preferred pronouns sin. If the answer is yes, then the Christian must hold to not using them, even if it strains relationships or hurts people. I believe the answer is yes, since that is affirming a lie about someone. If we applied this to a different issue, say body dysmorphia, we would not affirm someone who is anorexic as overweight-that’s just not true. I don’t think there’s as much wiggle room on this as Dr Tim suggests. I also love the principle of being as charitable as possible without violating Scripture. Let us consider how to build relationships with wisdom-not compromising truth, but also avoiding “othering” people.
@melaniesmith4360
Ай бұрын
And that is how a respectful and thoughtful conversation is done when there are differing views. Thank you, Gentlemen.
@geraldbritton8118
Ай бұрын
For me, the crazy thing is this. You only use pronouns when you're talking to somebody else about the person with preferred pronouns. When you talk to them personally you use their name, not a pronoun unless it's the simple "you"
@boringbiblestudy1813
Ай бұрын
Good points all around. The next time an atheist insists that I deny the existence of God as a prerequisite for having a conversation with him, I’ll make sure to deny the existence of God to be charitable. It is only by denying the truth that I can lead someone to truth.
@janicephillips6813
2 күн бұрын
Ha ha...
@millenialfalcon8243
Ай бұрын
I haven't watched yet. Answer is NO. To do so would contradict God's absolute Truth. Gen 1:27. God does not make mistakes!
@nlavigne92292
Ай бұрын
Im course where do you think the earth is in relationship to the sun and what are your thoughts on slavery? God might not make mistakes but we don't know his will. All we have is the bible and it's full of mistakes.
@chrysanthemumfan214
Ай бұрын
Oh, good! So you don't believe in American-style adoption, then, right? Because God wouldn't place an infant into the womb of someone He didn't destine to raise that child? Why would He refuse to place the child into the womb of the woman of a couple struggling for years to get pregnant? It must be His will for them to be childless, correct, and not for them to obtain someone else's baby? Just trying to see how far you'll go with this.[ And God doesn't want congenital heart disease corrected in newborns, or cleft palate, bow legs?
@babyruthswt2
Ай бұрын
1) I appreciate your respectfulness of each other. ❤ 2) I think Paul circumcised Timothy so that the Jews would allow him to go into the synagogue because Timothy was Paul’s partner in the gospel and son in the faith. Circumcision was a rule for entrance, right? 3) Because Paul did it, doesn’t necessarily make it the right thing to do. He was fallible. For example, he said I’m here to tell you about the unknown God whom you have an altar for. Did that actually cause confusion later on for believers there because that unknown god was actually connected to something? 4) When a person is difficult to determine (is that a boy or girl?) is probably when I might end up calling someone incorrectly because that is all they are known for/by. That’s when it gets awkward and confusing and frustrating. 5) There are many coming to the faith and or detransitioning. It would be interesting to have this conversation with them too. Have you heard of Lex (interviewed by Michael Knowles) who was going to church, reading the Bible, identifying and looking like a guy until several years later when God told her to stop trying to change into a man. I think many would appreciate someone who can be honest and say, “You may long to be something you are not biologically, but no amount of hormones or surgeries will repair that or change that biology. God wants to heal your hurt. You are special and unique and made as a male or female in the image of God and need not fit into a stereotypical female or male role, and. Because I care for you, I don’t want to encourage that idea that you can change your biological identity because it simply is not true. 6) As Christians, we need to figure out how to win people to Christ without affirming their sin. Paul did not say he would become a same sex attracted man to win a same sex attracted man to Christ. None of those things he mentioned were sins. (Even the “without the law” part is distinguished by saying that He was under Christ’s law). The question that we face then is transitioning and acting and presenting as the opposite sex a sin. We would argue it is. But like the sin of drunkenness, gluttony, gossip, lying, etc, we would not want to prohibit them from coming to church or require that they change first to come to Christ or require that they fix all of their sins and reach sanctification instantly but would allow the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the discipleship of the pastors to induce the change. All that without affirming their sin and agreeing with this false ideology. 😅 that’s a taut tightrope!
@TheMcGloneCode
20 күн бұрын
“If you don’t call me my preferred pronoun, you are disrespecting me.” “If you make me say things that aren’t true, you’re disrespecting me. How about we both love each other without forcing the other person to do or say what they believe to be false?”
@User_Happy35
Ай бұрын
No.
@christilinehan5087
Ай бұрын
I really loved this conversation! Thank you both for your approach to this volatile subject but, more importantly, for demonstrating how we as Christians can and need to be better listeners.
@Joe-bg9gi
Ай бұрын
“If I sat down with the Dali lama, and he told me to call him holiness, I’d call him your holiness” Wow! Blasphemous and delusional!
@joss2651
14 күн бұрын
If only Shadrack Meshak and Abednego would have had access to this counsel. Doh! They did.
@janicephillips6813
2 күн бұрын
Don't you mean Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah?@@joss2651
@ms181
Ай бұрын
Disappointed to read so many "absolutely not" comments. That rigidity reinforces divisions/prejudices and only alienates. Sadly, Christians on their moral high horses, miss opportunities to share God's love with hurting people.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
There are many ways to share the gospel and the truth of how God designed man and woman. You can do so with grace and humility. None of these methods require you affirm a person’s gender confusion. If a parent will not discuss God’s view of their son unless you refer to him as “she”, then you could simply not use pronouns at all. Just say “your child”. That is an approach with a measure of grace. What you absolutely cannot and should not do is affirm the delusion. Did Jesus ever affirm that idol-worship or that adultery was okay? No, and yet he found a way to bring the gospel to these hurting souls. Perhaps you are judging your fellow Christians too harshly. We can have strong convictions about Truth, and boldness to be Light. What good are you to the lost if you dim your Light when they are in darkness?
@JTW3D
19 күн бұрын
Alright, lets take an extreme example. If you meet a man on the street that identifies as a baby (yes, they exist), will you feed him milk? Will you call the police that you found an unparented baby on the street? Why not? A person who identifies as the opposite gender is the same. Just less extreme.
@Neptas
17 күн бұрын
If you actually loved transpeople, you would try and help them connect back with God and their real body. Do you think Jesus went to the sinners, just to say "Yeah keep sinning, it's fine, I still love you" ? Or do you think Jesus went to the sinners, and told them to repent and start a new life with Him? True love is about being honest with people, even if it hurt them. Lying to make people feel better is fake, superficial love.
@joellbury2834
Ай бұрын
ABSOLUTELY NOT! Do not comply!
@jason.martin
18 күн бұрын
Affirming pronouns would be the same as affirming an anorexic and agreeing that they are fat. Of course we need to be gentle and respectful. I just stick with using the persons name to avoid the conflict.
@smalltowntourist
17 күн бұрын
Preferred pronouns is a form of control over other people. "You must call me "fill in the blank." If you can control someone regarding pronouns, you'll try to control other aspects of that person. It's actually a form of emotional abuse.
@andrewpatrick2563
Ай бұрын
Didn’t Timothy have a Jewish mother while Titus was fully gentile
@wmcuccia1356
Ай бұрын
This has gotten ridiculous. I'm a Christian and I don't care if a person wants to disobey Christ that is their decision, for me not going to buy into all this crap. If they want to burn in hell than I'm not going to judge them. My experience even compassion doesn't turn a person around, unless the Spirit of God does the work all is in vain.
@jackpaul3315
Ай бұрын
Amen
@eugenetswong
Ай бұрын
I agree. Even Adam sinned in a perfect world. They need to stop complaining. Lack of niceness from Christians isn't an excuse.
@peteralbrecht473
Ай бұрын
no
@bjsauerbrei6632
Ай бұрын
They are putting the barrier up if they aren’t having a conversation because you don’t call them a certain thing.
@markrichard3364
Ай бұрын
"...whoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:15)
@brothapipp
Ай бұрын
1. Giving the ground to share God's view I think is lying to ourselves....in what real world situation in work or in school or at the bar or out with friends....what is the process by which you cede the ground...then circle back to it? 2. What are some resources for formulating a position on the issue?
@LSerewhon
Ай бұрын
Isiah on the Messiah - Jesus - "a bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick he will not quench" and yet He was harsh and uncompromising when it can to hypocrites, idolaters, those who would lord it over others, those who exploited the poor and harmed the weak and vulnerable. It depends on the situation. Stand your ground when it's a powerplay, when it's someone trying to get you to validate their ideology/compromise your faith etc. BUT ... when you are dealing with an individual who may be genuinely confused and lost or has been indoctrinated and cannot see anything else for now, or has a mental issue, who may be feeling alienated, alone, scared, depressed - be gentle, be gracious, be loving, be "winsome" - if God wants to use you further in that person's journey He will make the time right to talk about hard or scary things. We don't compromise with worldly, sometimes demonic worldviews and ideologies, we speak out about evil and sin but we are also to be innocent as doves whilst being wise as sneaks - be gentle with a broken reed, with a life that is barely flickering spiritually, with such we are gentle and we listen to the Spirit's prompting.
@GrandpaD78
Ай бұрын
I'm glad Sean was finally allowed to give his views and appreciate that he allowed his guest to give his side and ask his questions. I wish the guest would have afforded Sean the same respect.
@JosephAlanMeador
Ай бұрын
When it comes to lies versus the truth, how can you be in the "middle"? Jesus said let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. Whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
@andrewwoode
Ай бұрын
Does the Holy Spirit still soften hearts of men, or do we? If a relationship is not possible without prenoun use, it may be a time to pray for wisdom and softening.
@Tauo
Ай бұрын
It was mentioned briefly twice, but I would have liked to see both sides engage a bit more with the 1 Cor 9 passage more. The conversation was good overall, but a bit scattered. Thanks for taking on a tough topic that people need to hear!
@martinagoodwin6968
Ай бұрын
I absolutely love this conversation. It's so wholesome to see 2 Christians who genuinely love each other have this conversation and really break down each perspective! You guys are actually hilarious trying to break down scripture and interpret it's meaning. I would love for Sean McDowell to break down the reason for celebrating Halloween in this very "real time" and raw way being as particular to scripture as he is here. Because I totally agree and love how he articulated his perspective on pronouns but I struggle to see the defense for celebrating CLEARLY ungodly holidays like Halloween. And it would honestly bless me to hear how their defense would go so I maybe can understand Christians better who do still do Halloween. Please please please consider 🙏🙏🙏 and blessings to you brotheren in Christ
@jamesthemuchless
Ай бұрын
This was a fantastic conversation. Absolutely love seeing these guys really argue intensely while obviously still being friends and treating each other with respect. This is how it should be done!
@mariomene2051
Ай бұрын
Paul became a Jew to the Jew, and he became weak to the weak, but he stipulated that he was NOT without the Law of God (in his becoming weak to the weak), but was within the Law of Christ : Paul wouldn't have practiced homosexuality to win homosexuals. Paul had lines he wouldn't cross. What we're asking is whether Paul would've thought using "preferred pronouns" was crossing a line.
@CountItJoy140
29 күн бұрын
It worked because you are both knowledgeable on the subject. You both are experienced communicators. You are being viewed by millions of people. A carefully expressed debate with such maturity and decency. Lots of respect and Christian love between the 2 of you.😇
@theologygeekgal
Ай бұрын
I tend to agree with Sean but I think the opposing view was presented thoughtfully. I have a good friend with a son who identifies as trans & gay . I haven't used any special pronouns or a different name, though she does, but she knows that I still care about her son, and he has been welcomed into my home while crossdressing. We are both Christians, but while she tends to think this is who her son is, I've explained that he will never find his identity apart from Christ and what God has for him. I pray for him to find that. I was once convinced I should be a boy, but thankfully God rescued me from that lie, and I'm so grateful for the many years I've been blessed to be a married woman and mother.
@jdlamb1690
Ай бұрын
A question I might add is, why is only one party of the relationship expected to convey empathy, dignity and respect? I’m not saying I would not use preferred pronouns in certain situations. The point is both (all) humans are worthy of dignity and respect. Including the person who has deep convictions on not using them.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
Exactly right.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
And also, what exactly is it we are supposed to respect? The person, yes. Their view that 2+2=5? No.
@jaggedstarrPI
Ай бұрын
No. Defending reality, but in a loving way, is a duty. God is Truth.
@yunowot
Ай бұрын
To distinguish between the 'pastoral voice' and the 'prophetic voice' is simply another way of saying that you understand neither.
@loganholdaway769
Ай бұрын
Just because a burly 6' 5" man was given the name Stephanie at birth, doesn't prove names are genderless and we should just call people whatever they want to be called. If someone is named something obnoxious, grows up and realizes how obnoxious their name is, they may ask to go by a different name. In that case, fine, call them whatever they want to be called. But if a woman wants to change her name because the name is too feminine, she's acknowledging what you're denying, that names carry connotations of gender. The issue isn't that someone wants a name change, its why. To call someone a different name because the name they've chosen affirms their chosen gender is just as wrong as using a preferred pronoun.
@emalee8366
Ай бұрын
Pretty much everyone has preferred pronouns. A dude can be immaculated by his peers by being called a girl instead of a boy. That's a form of disrespect. It creates hostility and isn't treating others the way you'd want to be treated. Treating people in ways that you know cause them to feel disrespected is a great strategy to keep them out of church and closed off to the gospel. On the other hand, not using someone's preferred pronouns has very close to a 0% chance of influencing them to prefer the pronouns you want them to prefer. If we're being pragmatic, just respecting people's preferences seems like the way to go in most cases, especially with adults.
@robertdnero2217
Ай бұрын
How about NO.
@themagicman1986
Ай бұрын
Wow. Blows my mind that so many commenters miss the whole point of this conversation.
@josephalbatross5961
25 күн бұрын
The point is to have respectful discussion with Tim although Dr. McDowell disagrees with him. Every comment I’ve read has been respectful, as well. What you are confusing is disagreement for disrespect. Perhaps, you are the one who needs this lesson the most: it is okay to voice disagreement with Tim. That is not disrespectful of Tim.
@themagicman1986
25 күн бұрын
@@josephalbatross5961 precisely. Scroll back. Plenty of comments that have no interest in even entertaining this as a discussion.
@markquigley9730
Ай бұрын
I go with Dr Tim and the apostle Paul in 1 Cor 9:22. As a social worker I used to deal with all kinds of people with all kinds of problems. Communicating at their level was an essential part of the job. I see language as fluid. The word "gay" is an obvious example. How many people would refuse to use the term on the grounds that it implies that person concerned must be happy? Until recently the term "he" meant somebody with a biologically male body. Recently our culture has largely decided that it means somebody who FEELS they are male. I dislike this change for various reasons, including that there is now no unambiguous pronoun for a human with a male body. However, if I am to communicate helpfully with people I must use language in the way they do. It doesn't mean I agree with transgender etc. as Dr Tim pointed out. I might well change that when among Christians because their definition is likely different.
@billhollis3697
Ай бұрын
How did JESUS speak to the Pharisees? Would Paul be a homosexual to win in light of Romans 1?
@TheBoxingChamp01
Ай бұрын
REAL CHRISTIANS ✝️ WILL NEVER CALL A MAN A HER, FACTS
@lauragb3677
Ай бұрын
No. I use name only. I am always polite and respectful. In 2023 there were 90 gender pronouns (English grammar has 7). It’s become a game where you cannot be right, how can you guess which of 90 is correct? The point is to make others wrong, constantly.
@natsam1411
Ай бұрын
I so admire the way you agreed to disagree. You both are correct in some ways because its not a matter of argument but doing what is good for everyone inorder to win some for the Kingdom±
@Tim.Foster123
Ай бұрын
God is Truth. I can't think of any place in the Bible where someone spoke untruth to Jesus and He let it go unchallenged. The closest I can think of is the Wedding at Cana, where he let Person1 praise Person2 for the wine, and He let them believe something untrue. In every other situation, when an untruth was put in front of Him, He corrected it. So I'm trying to figure out how we're advancing the kingdom by letting a lie go by. If that conversation ends and the confused person thinks you affirm it in any way/shape/form, you've done God's designs on that person a disservice. If a trans requires you to acknowledge his preferred gender, doing so tells him that you have surrendered your worldview to his. ..and then you're going to follow up by showing how your worldview (that you compromised at his whim) is better than his?? How does that work? (BTW, I have no problem flexing in cultural situations, and would also use the circumcision example. And I would also note that there is nothing wrong with circumcision one way or the other. The same can't be said for mislabeling God's gender design. The principle of 'being a Jew to win Jews" can't be applied in a situation where sin is a prerequisite. That's why Jesus and Paul wouldn't do it.)
@christopherdale1745
Ай бұрын
I think minimizing ignorance of Scripture has something to do with a positive debate experience. We tend to get frustrated and lash out when we believe a thing, but lack the knowledge to be able to properly articulate our position.
@user-ih3mh6hr1k
16 күн бұрын
Using Paul’s “playbook”, both of you failed to point out that Timothy’s mother was Jewish, his father was Greek. Therefore in order have an effective ministry with Jews, Timothy needed to be circumcised being Jewish. Titus, in contrast, was a Greek and Paul didn’t circumcise him to support his argument against the Judaizers. Paul was deferential to cultures but never to morality. He didn’t become a drunk to reach the drunks for example. No, Paul would have never used pronouns, imo.
@anitafemiano245
Ай бұрын
Using preferred pronouns is an act of respect for the idol of their ideology. People who are so united with their idol that they interpret any failure to bow down to that idol as an attack on them and disrespectful of their devouring idol
@theworld6710
Ай бұрын
No. Pronouns are a basic boundary and indicator of respect. You likely wouldn’t be fine with people calling you by whatever name they chose, or whatever pronoun they decided. It’s little different. It’s about a basic level of respect for the person.
@Tim.Foster123
Ай бұрын
@@theworld6710 It's not respect if it perpetuates a lie. You're "respecting" them at the expense of respecting their Creator. Who has the final word in that paradigm? (Hint: the one that will judge both of us one day)
@anitafemiano245
Ай бұрын
@theworld6710 I've often been called by the wrong pronouns, it's never bothered me because pronouns are not my idol. If you spend a lot of time communicating with people for whom English is their second, third or fourth language you can get called all sorts of things - who cares, really - first world problems!! What's important is how can we get food and/or medical care to their families so people don't die.
@miketisdale7341
Ай бұрын
3:25 Tim says “The book of Proverbs says ‘A word spoken in the right circumstance’ is compared to fine jewelry.“ I wonder if Tim would also be able to say “The book of Proverbs says ‘A LIE spoken in the right circumstance’ is compared to fine jewelry“.
@joannsolari2676
Ай бұрын
Micah not Joann - This was a great video! Thank you both. Perhaps I’m wrong but it seems that the guest is learning from a principle Paul used in Acts to get in the door (literally) to the synagogue so that he could preach Gods truth. The guest (sorry, can’t think of his name at the moment) thinks we can and should use that same principle to get into the door to share Gods truth with people who use preferred pronouns. I think Sean hit the nail on the head when he said circumcision is not in the same category as preferred pronouns. I think the principle Paul used works BECAUSE circumcision was something Good ordained by God for a time. I think the principle Paul used only works when the thing he is “becoming” is not anti Gods truth. I don’t believe jesus or Paul would “become” something to all people if that something was actually anti Gods truth. A bit redundant but 🤷🏾♂️. I was definitely open to both sides of this christ like conversation, however, after this video I’m certainly more in the camp of Sean. I learned a lot from this video!
@andreamccormack
Ай бұрын
How will God the Creator address his own creation on the day they stand before his throne in judgment? Certainly not their preferred pronoun or any other thing they want to be addressed as, like born again or not. God is the judge of everything, not us. It's not just ignorance that humans have, by wanting to call the shots, but arrogance, the pride of life. It's no wander they call it Gay Pride. It really is, even before God their maker.
@lylew7
19 күн бұрын
Using ones requested pronouns is not lying. Their experience of gender incongruety is a real experience, it's truthful to speak of their experience with acknowledgement and recognition that this *is* in fact their daily lived experience, their day to day reality.
@joshs2138
Ай бұрын
No one should use "preferred" pronouns. It is equivalent to a lie. It is evil to feed into someone's delusion. The erasure of truth is evil. Being honest to someone, even if they hate you for it, is right.
@BHFWaterloo
Ай бұрын
If you speak in a way that closes down the conversation how in the world can you ever lead someone to the truth?
@dotails
26 күн бұрын
It may also depend on where the culture is, if already saturated in confusion it can be deafening to disagree but if not it can cause saturation causing negative culture states.
@marque2127
Ай бұрын
Calling a male she when you don't believe that is not respectful. That is lying. . It is going to take a lot of gymnastics to minister in the way that Sean is describing. It would be easier just to tell people that this goes against my beliefs. And to give me enough room to practice my beliefs without you making all these demands.
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