Correction: Linden Cameron, a 13-year-old boy with autism, was not killed by police. He was shot 11 times and suffered serious injuries. Regardless, it was excessive use of force that should not have happened. Also, let me take the opportunity to once again plug our new book that is out on preorder, which also discusses this topic: www.amazon.com/Your-Brain-Explained-Learning-Educational/dp/1681885638/
@ohmygoditisspider7953
3 жыл бұрын
Shot 11 times and survived? KING.
@AnthonyChinaski
3 жыл бұрын
Only 11 times
@bruggeman672
3 жыл бұрын
This should be seen by everyone. Well done.
@zimloki9801
11 ай бұрын
I'd say the Shooting of Linden Cameron should be regarded as an act of [systemic] ableism. Therefore, Matthew Farillas should be punished for it.
@biancataal8535
10 ай бұрын
I got arrested and tasered 2 times in one day after someone abused me.
@elizabethhennig2051
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine being thrown on the floor and put into handcuffs during a psychotic episode where you’re already scared and not especially violent
@lizcollinson2692
3 жыл бұрын
Couldn't cope with that when healthy.
@HarryNicNicholas
3 жыл бұрын
most people have no idea of what a psychotic episode would be like to experience. i've been caing for someone schizophrenic for six years and i still have no idea what her experience is like, internally.
@Lisa-hj8fh
3 жыл бұрын
Or having guns pointed to your head for having to restrain a violent autistic child. After they realize what your doing,l. You'll get the..... " Sorry, well try to be better aware next time."
@4DCALS
8 ай бұрын
Our system is broken because 911 was programmed in our minds as the save all. For those that don't know New Jersey State Police does a great job with mental illness every state should shadow that model. LOE environment need to change. I met many officers who was assigned to mental health facilities and still abuse persons with many issues. Ofc today believe that they should not have to deal with person(s) with crisis. Every ofc after hired should take psychology, sociology, included in the in-service training. Police should still respond to mental health crisis.
@devilsatan2973
8 ай бұрын
Then what is YOUR solution? These folks NEED to be controlled, somehow! For their sake AND the rest of us!
@ohmygoditisspider7953
3 жыл бұрын
I was once violently beaten by police officers for going to the emergency room and requesting an antipsychotic that my health insurance had decided they wouldn't cover any longer without telling me. So i discovered that when i tried to refill it. My sister and a friend brought me to the hospital because after a few days of not having the medicine i was having episodes of psychosis (visual and auditory hallucinations) Before the police showed up, the most aggressive i became was when asked if i would consent to spending several days in the psychiatric unit and i said "no, fuck off with that." The police had the nurses cycle the two other patients out of the room i was in, and then entered the room. They told me that they were going to make me stay in the psychiatric unit. I told them that it would cause me to lose my job. Within ten minutes they had broken two of my ribs and my nose, stabbed me in the ass with a syringe of geodon and antivan, and tied me to a gurney. They charged me with "Inducing panic" (causing the evacuation of a public place) because of when they had the other two patients leave the room, because when they were beating me i was talking shit to them. I woke up two days later totally unaware of the criminal charge. The doctors discharged me as they determined i was not a risk to anyone or myself. Because i was upset about being assaulted and drugged, i refused any medication, consented to nothing (thus i signed no paperwork) and charged me with a misdemeanor that carried a six month jail time sentence with it. They beat me because i wanted to leave the hospital and they didn't want me to, and because i didn't hurt anyone (not even the police who were beating me and covered in my blood) and charged me with the only crime they could make it look like I was guilty of. As a result i have absolutely zero faith in mental health treatment. When I get background checks, this misdemeanor is described as "Inducing panic- terroristic threat." And it has cost me several jobs. This was *inside a hospital* that *had social workers* and is as accurate as i can possibly tell this story. Police are fucking *terrible* as an option for mental health. "Hey bro i got a mouse problem, what do you think i should do?" "Oh, napalm your home."
@scorpiochelle
3 ай бұрын
I am so sorry that you had to experience that... I had a friend call a wellness check when they couldn't get in touch with me. I was depressed, had major health problems and my well meaning friend wanted to ensure that I was alive. 3 police officers arrived. 1 broke into my house and pointed a gun at my dogs while I came out of the shower in nothing but a robe wondering wtf was going on. They told me that I needed to come outside. I told them that I had no problem doing so but I needed to put clothes on first. All 3 of them grabbed me, slammed me onto the ground, pulled me up by my wrists, slammed my face into the wall, literally dragged me to a police car. My naked body was exposed to my entire neighborhood. My wrist was broken. I was bruised from head to toe. These cops couldn't take me to jail because I hadn't committed any crimes so they used the wellness check call to have me taken to a mental health facility. Luckily the place they took me didn't have a medical unit so legally due to my health conditions I had to be taken to the hospital and medically cleared first or transferred to a medical & mental health facility after the hospital. The doctor at the hospital knew me. He knew I wasn't in crisis or suicidal. My dad called and the doctor agreed to release me to my dad. If this series of events hadn't happened I would have spent a minimum of 3 days in the psych ward, lost my job, who knows what would have happened to my dogs, I was already broke from all of my health problems. If I lost my job & went days to weeks without working I would have lost my house. So cops showed up to make sure that I was safe, not injured and alive. Since I was, they decided to ensure I was injured, harmed, and had I fought back, killed. How does this make any sense??
@mickrozycki451
Ай бұрын
I was brutalized by police last year for a mental health crisis. Taken to the hospital, strapped down, treated like a drug addict with blood work, kept in isolation and then released in the morning. I was not on drugs. I did nothing wrong. But the whole system clearly set on treating me like a caged animal because I was unwell. Don't involve police or 911 if your having a mental health crisis. They will only hurt you.
@teresacastillo1783
Ай бұрын
easy a Muslim manipulating staff to handcuff you
@dianadelahaye7660
22 күн бұрын
That is outrageous! So sorry that happened to you.
@marygacha777
4 күн бұрын
@@teresacastillo1783 what does religion have to do with this... Not everyone's in the islamic community is like this, cause it can be anyone no matter the group, dont judge people that fast based on which religion, skin colour,.. etc. That's not how it works.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
I felt so helpless a few years ago. We had a call involving a young man that had lost all touch with reality. He stole guns from all of his relatives and was keeping them in a trunk in the back of his pickup. He burnt down his fathers house and he hid in his mothers house waiting to harm her. She was, thankfully, gone for hours that day. He brutally tortured her dog with a knife and left. Officers picked him up and took him to the ER. Every single person in his family refused to do an IVC. ER doctors pulled every trick in the book to hold him a bit longer and they + officers called mental health facilities in almost every state. No one would take him. Everyone knew that prison alone was not going to be good for him. He needed in patient care and intense focus. Meanwhile people can have their 90 year old grandmother with dementia, who could not be physically dangerous if she wanted to be, committed all day long. The system is in shambles.
@scorpiochelle
3 ай бұрын
In shambles is a dire understatement. Our system is fuked
@littleghost6102
3 жыл бұрын
me seeing the title: wtf no thats a terrible idea me a couple minutes in: wait we DO that!?
@Algo1
3 жыл бұрын
And by the end of the video: YES, replace the system.
@GiantsRTheBest1
3 жыл бұрын
I say let’s do it. This allows so many people with Psychology degrees that do not want to go in for a doctorates or teach to have a job where they feel like they’re making a difference in a crisis situation.
@cristianvillanueva8782
3 жыл бұрын
Literally, so much potential
@jorenbosmans8065
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah and it frees up the market for those that do want to go for a doctorate or teaching job. There seems to be a lot of benefit to it
@eugenetswong
11 ай бұрын
I agree. Also, taking responsibilities and authority away from police, while still providing the same amount of service is a good thing. I don't agree with all his takes, but I'm glad he started the conversation.
@KaoticReach1999
3 жыл бұрын
My best friend didn't seek help at a inpatient because he was told it would be Prison rules if he went to a mental facility, no phone, no games he used to cope or even a DVD player, Stripped of ALL medication (along with cymbalta, narcotics too but he was on Valium after seeing his brother killed and was told it would go on his record and he may not be able to get it anymore after they handed out the rest of the prescription) He had a mental breakdown two months ago and to say it ended up the worst case scenario would be an understatement... Everything needs to be overhauled, there's no point in improving the system if people are afraid of interacting with it because they see it as further punishment
@TrevorJrHotkiss11
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, i'd like to see a video on mental hospitals
@thesudaneseprince9675
3 жыл бұрын
Me too please
@kirklandday
3 жыл бұрын
this is an awesome idea!
@rachelicey604
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah- me too!
@teresacastillo1783
Ай бұрын
Not only mental institutions it's any hospitals CIA vs weak people
@keepyourbilsteins
3 жыл бұрын
Knowing Better sent me and I really appreciate your candor and input on this topic. Algo engagement for the time being, but look forward to engaging in the comments.
@johnnix2168
2 ай бұрын
It brought tears to my eyes. I lived for 25 years with MDD. Mental illness is viewed much differently than physical illness. I know that there are numerous reasons for the breakdown in the system. It’s very sad all the way around
@sarahloomis2034
3 жыл бұрын
I like the CAHOOTS model a lot - medics in case there are overdoses, suicide attempts or other immediate health concerns, partnered with crisis workers, social workers, or therapists to connect with community resources and provide follow up, as well as make sure the medics are handling the situation well. Would love to see this in more places!
@Dr.Longest
2 жыл бұрын
What happens if the potential patient does not want help but still actively wants to kill themself?
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
I would too but I (have been a 911 dispatcher *for 2 decades) know zero paramedics or social workers that would go along with it due to cases in my county where social workers and paramedics were murdered by someone experiencing a mental health crisis.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
They would be more likely to do teams with a variety of people that can offer support.
@petraarkian7720
3 жыл бұрын
Another point not really mentioned is lag. The only time I had police called for suicidal ideation I was asleep by the time they showed up and anyone with depression can atest to how much good sleep helps. Instead I was shaken out of bed, startled into a new episode of anxiety and depression, and had to explain to them that I had an off day and all I really wanted was to go back to bed please.
@thesudaneseprince9675
3 жыл бұрын
The reflective and open dialogue this video has created is exemplary. It's really nice to see an issue addressed in a way that doesn't make people feel like their being attacked and also gets people to re-evaluate their views. Thank you so much for this, and thank you to all the commenters leaving comments on what they believe and have learned.
@clairemartin4188
3 жыл бұрын
When I saw the poll I voted for police response in mental health calls because my one experience with a family member was aggressive and unmedicated schizophrenic and the police handled it relatively well but I had completely forgotten about the people that are depressed and asking for help or people with anxiety that are in a panic. I also hadn't considered that the police aren't equipped to deal with calls like that. This is a great topic to bring up because obviously people aren't thinking about this in the correct way and I will certainly reflect on this more
@petraarkian7720
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, I mean in some situations where the person is a danger to others police will need to be involved even if the person is mentally ill. (I mean, most school shooters are mentally ill but you want police responding there) But the majority of mental health calls are depressed or anxious people who are only a danger to themselves. Having a mental health practicioner in the seat of making the call who to send would also be smart in situations like psychosis where some people may need a mental health worker and some may need police. (Ideally in that case a mental health worker will be sent as well to adress the person and help them cool down as soon as any danger has been mitigated)
@Dr.Longest
2 жыл бұрын
A huge issue that you run into if police aren't involved is a good portion of people who avoid seeking help don't want the help. And you don't need much training to comprehend when the patient states, "I am going to kill myself" as an omission of imminent risk to self which needs to be addressed and not just "deescalated." But police have the legal authority (via a judge in the state of Texas) to place an involuntary hold. Whether you agree or disagree with involuntarily taking someone to a psych hospital who is suicidal is a different discussion, but police are the quickest route (in the state of Texas) to "force" someone into treatment. Ironically the vast majority of the patients I see who are involuntary have told a licensed professional that they are suicidal and then that professional calls a police officer to place them on an Emergency Detention Order (EDO). One is for the perceived safety of the patient and the other reason is a liability... No licensed professional wants that liability if a patient ends up taking their life. Police are a necessary piece because of the legality involving EDOs. Add in rural areas where the hospital I work for takes patients upwards of 3.5 hours away. Who is driving this person who is in crisis? Do you want to strap that patient with a 3.5-hour ambulance ride? Police in rural areas is the defacto drivers for these involuntary patients being sent to psych hospitals (at least out here in West Texas). Do I have issues with how the system functions? Sure. But that change is far more complicated than these proposed 3 options. In fact, out in West Texas, we have local mental health authorities who often assess patients without the need for police intervention (unless the patient does become dangerous or an EDO needs to be placed on them). And these violent occurrences would happen on the daily. Sure, they might comprise a small percentage as a total, but anecdotally I would see these patients at least once a day, and many we have to turn away because they are TOO violent. Meth is a huge issue in Texas and that type of substance use often exacerbates violence. While I agree the presence of an officer can add to a crisis I have had countless people express gratitude for their experience with the police and the local mental health authorities. And there usually is continuing care, it is just severely underfunded. The local mental health authorities have these individuals on their caseload, but many of the patients either avoid the outpatient assistance, feel they are better after their inpatient stay, or are frustrated with the timing for outpatient care (the lack of psychiatrists in West Texas really screws this whole system up). And when I mention TOO violent I mean TOO violent. These individuals (while super rare and they are a fraction of mental health patients and patients with psychosis) have placed staff in the E.R. when accepted. This isn't just someone punching a wall. These scenarios involve physical maiming or lifetime injuries sustained to staff. Spit, urine, feces, chunks bit out of staff member's arms, being choked unconscious, sexual victimization of staff (typically women), stabbings, etc. And these are the patients that get through the door AFTER we turn people away. A state hospital usually ends up with more violent patients. Do I think this is a just system? No. But it's easy to sit there and think up "solutions" without seeing what happens when trained law enforcement is not involved. I am happy that here in West Texas we have local mental health authorities that provide a lot of the services this guy is talking about. It is not perfect, but the help exists. And lastly, you can easily point to other countries for comparison, but we have higher levels of violent crime in the U.S. than in those countries. It is an easy trap to make comparisons, but that on-site visit with a patient in crisis naturally has a higher chance of violence in the U.S. compared with most places in Europe. Our substance use rates are higher too, and as mentioned previously, these drugs often make the situations even more difficult and unpredictable.
@mylifeasitwere
2 жыл бұрын
I had the same exact experience with my partner. My only recourse was the police after many weeks- and they did nothing because they technically didn't break the law. But in order for them to get help they have to check themselves in- which someone who's not in their right mind will not. There's no system in place for this still- and it's now easier to understand why the homeless population is growing, especially in my city.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
Do not ever feel bad for calling if you are in danger. That is something you need to do. In the early 1990s I found myself in a car with a - completely unbeknownst to me - seriously mentally ill, undiagnosed teenage boy I had just been on my 3rd group date with. I had kissed the guy once when he decided to essentially abduct me. He pulled a knife, started driving in the opposite direction of where we were supposed to be going and threatened to murder me or take out both of us in various ways “so no one else could have” me for well over an hour. No cell phones then. There is still no reception on most of that mountain road today. If I could have safely called or alerted police then I would have. That was one moment in my life when I desperately needed them. I personally wouldn’t have felt bad if something happened to him either. Not after the first (though not the last) “I’m going to get what’s owed to me”. Even though I could tell he truly had serious MH issues when I looked at his eyes. Long story short I talked him down by the time we reached the one turn around spot at the top of the mountain and he decided to drive me back to my friends house at 100 mph on a 10-35 mph road. I requested that his family have him institutionalized after the fact. He was, several states away, and then he was sent to a group home for young adults with mental health issues on the other side of the country for 2 years. Based on the things I heard that he did to the woman he married after he got back - it did no good whatsoever. Back then everything was called a “chemical imbalance” but if I had to guess I would say that he was rather high up on the BPD spectrum - with other related issues - and fell into the camp of those most likely to resist treatment. On a job related note - I’ve been a 911 dispatcher for 2 decades now, I know exactly how broken and frustrating the system is. I’ve also been a long term advocate (long before I started my job) for an end to over criminalization, mass incarceration and to curb injustices that are known to erode rights, and increase wrongful convictions. I would love to see numerous reforms. I find it appalling that people truly in need of in patient care have little to no hope today. There was little hope in the 1990s, though there were more options then.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
@@petraarkian7720Thankfully we are seeing more pilot programs today that involve both officers and mental health professionals. We do not have this in my area yet but I have to say the officers where I live do pretty good. It’s a smaller, rural area that is more spread out but is still based on community policing. When it comes to the local yokels - they know who has MH problems, they know their parents, they know their grandparents. The same holds true with people who have physical health conditions that cause erratic and combative behaviors. One of my former classmates from the first day of kindergarten on pulled out a shot gun and blasted through his front door when officers knocked on it one night. Luckily one of the officers saw him through the window and pulled the other out of the way. They yelled at him, he put down the gun and they requested as ambulance. As expected (usual) his blood sugar was 45. I grew up watching police & paramedics chase him around my town while screaming about his blood sugar bottoming out. They have dealt with a wide range of MH issues beautifully. Officers involved shootings are incredibly rare in my county. They do a good job talking to people and they will spend hours with someone that just needs to talk - if time allows. They tend to spend extra time trying to put people at ease. Of course many call and request officers themselves. They are incredibly mindful of combat vets with PTSD. Several of them were in the military/combat and they are incredibly supportive. There are many more good stories that people do not hear about on the news. That said - they still shouldn’t be the primary ones handling this. We need better in patient facilities and we need facilities for the criminally insane. *thankfully affordable insulin is finally being addressed
@curtissjamesd
Жыл бұрын
I have dealt with the situation that you described in the intro and to anyone watching this who is on the fence, the whole experience made me feel like I couldn't trust anyone when I was in crisis and almost resulted in my death multiple times..
@OlyChickenGuy
11 ай бұрын
I'm in Olympia, Washington, and I struggle with mental health issues and let me tell you, when cops respond to a mental health crisis it SUCKS, but when CRU responds, you can often end up talking to some of the kindest, most compassionate people I've ever met. CRU volunteers also get frequent training days to help expand and update their crisis and de-escelation training pretty frequently. I've also ended up dealing with police in Seattle, Edmonds, Lynnwood, and Everett, and they're MUCH better than Thurston County. The main difference so far as I can tell is that up north, the cops are required to take sympathy training and de-escalation courses. Even Tacoma has jumped on that band wagon, and whereas Tacoma used to be known as one of the worst places for crime and violence, the last few times I've visited, it's been pretty nice, including law enforcement.
@sownheard
3 жыл бұрын
There should be a separate system emergency system for mental problems.
@panickal
3 жыл бұрын
Yes
@tomdavis6118
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly. And this is the main reason why so many are calling for defunding the police. Not to pu ish cops, but to fund services that are better equipped than what is heaped upon law enforcement to address. Cops should not be asked to intervene outside of public safety concerns. Real public safety concerns. Not a guy who has ptsd who is angry and needs therapy and is not proving a threat to anyone.
@alexmcleod8125
3 жыл бұрын
Could be possibly just extra resources for ems. In the U.K. that’s where the initiatives are starting with sending out mental health nurses with paramedics
@wellingtonsboots4074
3 жыл бұрын
Been in a situation where PTSD was triggered and fear was mistaken for anger. I did not go looking to get PTSD, i did not commit the crime that gave it to me. So, in the heat of the moment it's hard to accept law enforcement officers turning up. The thing is though, aside from who should turn up, I was glad that someone removed me from the midst of gawking people standing around watching me break. Thank you, you tackle some huge subjects on this channel and it is so important.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
My dad suffered from combat PTSD for years when I was a child. He carried around a gun almost everywhere he went due to fear. It was always with him in combat, he received a rather nasty reception when he got home, and he didn’t feel safe. He accidentally misfired his weapon while trying to get something else out of his pocket while at a parade in our town one year and the bullet went through his shoe. Thankfully it missed his toe, and everyone else. He stopped carrying it all the time after that. One day I was glad that he didn’t have it because he convinced himself that a group of younger people were mocking him for going to Vietnam. Something about the situation reminded him of the group of people that attacked him at an airport in California when he finally landed back in America. He went home, got his gun, and went back out to kill them. I watched him rip the house apart while having flashbacks *typically after a bad nightmare and it was always in attempt to find explosives he thought he needed for combat* more than once but that was the one time I was truly scared. We had to call police. They all knew him and several were combat vets. Luckily ended up talking himself out of it and just drove around for a while.
@genessab
3 жыл бұрын
Every mental health interaction I’ve had with police has been only damaging :(
@hannahwood3564
3 жыл бұрын
Same. I was charged with interfering with an officer, when I was only trying to get help.
@scorpiochelle
3 ай бұрын
Same
@Authentistic-ism
3 жыл бұрын
I've had experiences with police responding to a "welfare check" as they call it here in three different locations. Rural, college town, and urban poverty area. None of the experiences were good or helpful. One ended in a hospital stay I felt was wholly unnecessary. Another resulted in verbal abuse and threats of sexual abuse from the officer if I didn't "shut the fuck up." In that case I actually did need to go to the hospital, but I was abused by the officer and left to my own devices. The third time simply resulted in an interrogation-detainment style suicide assessment while the neighbors watched.
@aldebaran584
2 жыл бұрын
Jesus, that sounds horrible. I'm sorry you had to go through that
@devilsatan2973
8 ай бұрын
Sounds like we have an officer that needs training in human relations! Very unfortunate attitude/behavior on his part. If he told me to "shut the f××× up!" then he would find himself explaining to his sargent why he has a complaint filed against him! I did get into it with a bike cop on skid row once. He told me if I didn't like his attitude or that he wouldn't stop yelling at me, then I could talk to his boss! So guess where I was next morning? He must have gotten the memo then! Because for the rest of my time there, he wouldn't even look at me much less speak to me! I made it VERY clear to management that his attitude was completely inappropriate!
@panickal
3 жыл бұрын
1:13 jokes on you no imagining required for this part
@gwendolynbruggeman530
3 жыл бұрын
I've been the guard at the hospital watching over people in for a 5150. Suicide watch. We were allowed to hold people up to 48 hours at the minimum, and in some cases up to a month. It usually took over 24 hours before they were taken away. People's clothes, phones, and personal belongings are all taken away. You aren't even allowed to go to the bathroom, the guard is probably busy trying to watch half a dozen people, so you can't even talk to anyone. And since you are in the ER, everyone is upset that you are taking up valuable space. It is absolutely dehumanizing and it is not okay or right. Edit more info: Nurses would stick an IV needle into the patient's hand and it had to be left there. If the patient tried to take it out then they would be restrained and sedated. The patients would also be sedated against their will if they were ever rowdy.
@gwendolynbruggeman530
3 жыл бұрын
I was also told that this "offense" goes on your record and you can't ever buy a gun or have a government job. But I never looked it up for myself and I don't know if it is true
@discon_csert
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this narrative. It's reassuring/validating hearing the things that I've been trying to explain from someone else.
@Algo1
3 жыл бұрын
I hate to use dictionary form definitions but Police are "an organized nonmilitary force for maintaining order, preventing and detecting crime and enforcing the laws" In no part of that definition can we extract that they should have the duty of responding to mental health crisis unless, of course and it should go without saying, as a by-product of said mental health crisis, a crime is committed, and they wouldn't be responding to the crisis itself, but the crime committed. So I would be all for skipping right to step 3 and replace all Police intervention in mental health crisis in favor of professionals in the field.
@Dr.Longest
2 жыл бұрын
So how does someone get help if they don't want it and they want to actively kill themself? This becomes a legal issue the moment we value someone's life more than their personal freedoms in that crisis. We need a law enforcement official to be part of the process which qualifies for your definition.
@hosedragger-204
2 жыл бұрын
How about when the person turns hostile towards fire/EMS and attempts to assault, injure, or kill them? Seen it happen first hand on mental health calls that PD refused to respond and assist on.
@humanperson8418
3 ай бұрын
What about a world where the police are professionals? 🤔 In the UK you need a degree in policing where you learn how to defuse fear & tense situations. They are taught to police using the peelian principles which is all about policing by consent rather than through force.
@colecorbett255
3 жыл бұрын
i think there’s needs to be another separate response team for people in a psychotic manic state... I have had 6 episodes where i was psychotic, but i’ve never wanted to hurt anyone or myself. I am “high functioning” (when i’m not manic, 99% of the time) & am almost finished with my masters in biotechnology. With dopaminergic activation way above baseline while manic, i’ve always tried to get away from “the cops” (mostly because I know the mental hospital 🏥 costs a fortune in the back of my mind.) It’s scary to my past and future self to think that i can be in a state that isn’t full logical (i think logic & reason are the antithesis concepts to psychotic thoughts) but it’s happened and i’ve been tackled to the ground by cops for it. Tbh i just need a pharmacological intervention that induces sleep to “fix” my mind, i.e. restore my baseline.
@Dr.Longest
2 жыл бұрын
What happens if your altered sense of self avoids this pharmacological intervention? Would you want people to be "forced" to participate in this if that patient's actions places them at risk of hurting themself or someone else (intentions aside considering psychosis can involve accidental imminent risk of harm to self or others).
@chloenestorovich1258
3 ай бұрын
imagine this, it’s 4am and you’ve had a hard day and just wanted to vent. you text a help phone and they jump the gun and assume you were going to do something. they proceed to call 911 and say that you threatened to h@ng yourself (when you did not). then you get a knock on the door and see 3 male police officers (you are a teenage girl). they take you to their car and yell at you to tell you what happened. they then slam the door in your face and ship you off to the er just to sit there for 7 hours alone then be sent home with trauma involving police.
@MrKoemgun
3 жыл бұрын
As a french guy the idea of calling the cops to check on someone having a mental health crisis seems really absurd to me. Especially since ,well the cop in the US don't really sounds like used to not using the force. But I don't probably have a good overview on that part. In france I Would probably call the emergency services have a doctor on the phone who would probably send the firefighters, since they also do most of the jobs the paramedics do in the US.
@candytwiggytwist3506
3 жыл бұрын
The French system as many in Europe is incomparable to the US's one, also a social or medical systems that are so good in France and crap in the States. Not talking about the fact of having a gun which is an absurd to us. You, French are particularly good in improving your rights and system, chapeau bas :)
@candytwiggytwist3506
3 жыл бұрын
But.. improve your administration!! ;)
@Shepz-123
3 жыл бұрын
Completely agree. Having worked in the crisis intervention sector for several years in the UK. The parallels of problematic issues are very similar. Lack of resources and lack of funding with appropriate training means we are failing many people when they are at their most vulnerable/desperate.
@joshuaneace6597
3 жыл бұрын
I have bipolar disorder type I with psychotic features, and depending on which department depends on what happens. It is always that a police officer or sheriff deputy shows up first, but some police departments will call EMTs. However, some police departments take the person directly to the ER.
@theodoreturner5567
4 ай бұрын
My wife, during a bout of psychosis cause by a medication, which was compilated by her BPD and C-PTSD,, called a distress line. She ended up being told to go to a women's shelter. That was nearly four months ago. I still have not heard from her. Her psychosis involved in believing that there was a plot against her, of which I was part of, or even the cause. Two weeks before she left, I had called the distress line, as she was expressing suicidal ideation and had them talk to her. At the time, I had stopped her from driving, when she said she was leaving and not coming back, while in a frenzy. For this. After she had left two weeks later, I revived criminal charges for assault. The problem here is that the police are not trained in mental health. These are complex problems. It is frustrating that criminal charges withhold from her the person who loves, understands and has helped her for the last 11 years.
@BenutzerWalter
11 ай бұрын
I've had times, one only months ago, where I've been suicidal and wanting help. I considered contacting a suicide hotline but was afraid I'd be ignored or had the police called on me, so I didn't. In spite of wanting to go to go to a mental hospital, I didn't, because I was afraid that I'd lose my job for not showing up. I was also afraid that the bill would erase all of my savings that I've worked to build, or put me in the red and render me unable to pay my bills. Months later, I still haven't been able to get a therapist under my insurance who didn't just say "I can't help you". Things are a bit better right now but the next year still feels bleak and terrifying to look forward. I wish it was just easier to get myself help without fear. Even in spite of having friends and being in a relationship, I still feel like I have no one to talk to. Some won't take it seriously, some will, but only one actually knows how to appropriately deal with it, and I don't want to be more of a burdern to her than I already have.
@ThunderCuck9000
11 ай бұрын
The CAT team is amazing in Australia! They meet you wherever works best, either your house or they can pick you up and take you to a park or something if you don't want family or neighbors to see/hear. They usually meet with you every day for a few days, they'll extend that time if needed, until you're better. If you get worse they help find the next steps, although mental hospitals are full here too and there's lots of issues there. But, it's amazing and has helped me a few times when hospital is too much but you need help ASAP. There's something special about just meeting with people who understand what's going on, with no judgement to just help you get better
@mayflowers1104
3 жыл бұрын
As someone who has lived through this kind of interaction - and am still working through the impact that had on my mental health and willingness to seek help - I think it’s incredibly important to underscore that even individuals suffering with psychosis, the majority are not and would not become violent or agressive toward others. It is imperative in America that we don’t inadvertently “throw individuals with psychosis under the bus” so that the people without psychosis can have access to better mental health care. When these interactions lead to death, they are often because of a misunderstanding of psychotic symptoms, and we must prioritize providing safe, equitable, and sufficient healthcare to ALL mental health symptoms and perceived levels of “severity” of the person in crisis. P.S. This is not in any way a direct response to what is said in the video, but instead a footnote, a reminder that even the most unfamiliar behavior patterns do not necessarily mean that someone is seeking harm.
@Sandraudiga333
3 жыл бұрын
I agree with this 100%. Police should not be responding to mental health calls unless a mental health professional on scene calls for backup. They don't have the training or the ability to deescalate, and should be used as a last resort. Particularly, police don't have the ability or know-how to connect someone with ongoing mental care for their income level (or lack thereof).
@papercut7141
3 жыл бұрын
@@MrCurbinator exposure bias, we're only ever exposed to the failures. "Cop descalates situation and nothing happens" never makes the news.
@laurenhand9643
Жыл бұрын
These situations can be detrimental and cause more harm and problems in the future for individuals already struggling feeling lost and scared who are most likely experiencing mental health issues in the first place due to trauma that wasn't their fault. I had the cops called multiple times on me when I was having a "crisis" situation (in terms of those who called the cops on me all because they didn't have the patience, skills, etc to just give me some support and safe place by listening to me and showing love). Both times I ended up being handcuffed and transported to the hospital all because I didn't want to go with them. Those situations changed me for life.
@ravinakuwar1407
Жыл бұрын
There is always a stigma present in the society regarding being carried in a Police Van. So, it's quite terrifying for a common person if he is being carried in a police Van for a simple episode of depression.
@JeevesPeabodyPOGO
5 ай бұрын
I had a psychotic break last year and a Crisis Intervention Team showed up and cuffed me and threw me in the back of a car. Why? Idk. Because I didn't want to go to the mental hospital. That's literally it.
@HayLeesHomeMade
3 жыл бұрын
I would love if the police brought me back from the hospital. Instead, when i get released i have to pay to get back home
@kingtunip6386
3 жыл бұрын
I did a vote on my Instagram last week if we should bring back public mental hospitals.... most said yes
@nfspaul
3 жыл бұрын
In Germany the EMS handles Mental Calls.. works well, since we are trained in psychology and de-escalation...
@colecorbett255
3 жыл бұрын
i have never wanted hurt anyone while psychotic.... it’s mostly a grandiose genre of psychosis, very comparable to someone on psychedelics.. in fact psychedelics have induced about half of my psychotic-manic episodes... (as opposed to a non psychotic-manic state which is amazing-creative-& productive.... although not sustainable)
@humanperson8418
3 ай бұрын
For context, In the UK you need a degree in policing where you learn how to defuse fear & tense situations. They are taught to police using the peelian principles which is all about policing by consent.
@MaryJohanna
3 жыл бұрын
I am always late to the game so I just read last year's NYT Bestseller Hidden Valley Road, Inside the mind of an American Family. Mental health was never really on my radar until I started living in Southern California where the streets are littered with houseless people. Many strike me as needing mental health care, but being houseless for some time would cause a mental health crisis. Yes then I see the police dealing with them, so in my view Police are not trained nor are they social workers. We must find a better solution, and should not disregard creating group homes for mental health candidates, transparency is a must of course. This video speaks to me, thank you.
@acrazysheepdog1555
3 жыл бұрын
Amazing, came here from Knowing Better, another great channel too, this opened my eyes far more than ever before, my applause to you.
@Trumpianet
3 жыл бұрын
This was an amazingly educational and well put together video. Im currently working with a group where I live, on issues of social equity around policing and I definitely need to share this with them. Thanks so much for this resource!
@rachelf6745
3 жыл бұрын
9:40 here you dont even get a single bus ticket when it takes two to get anywhere 😡
@LoganLS0
3 жыл бұрын
As an autistic person from Minneapolis, I am terrified of police.
@realxistic
3 жыл бұрын
I think police stations should hire therapists instead.
@eelsemaj99
3 жыл бұрын
As someone watching from Britain, I’m kinda surprised about the police responding to these kind of calls in the first place. I am in complete agreement that we should replace police in this situation with mental health professionals, it just seems the logical choice
@eddyb2302
2 жыл бұрын
For real, or if having enough mental health professionals as first responders is too much replace the police with EMTs
@JJoy-bk8yr
3 жыл бұрын
If 5% of the time mental crisis calls are about someone who is armed or violent, that is not insignificant. It seems to me that mental health professionals should be the ones responding to mental health crises, BUT police should be notified and be standing by, at a distance, in case they are needed. The mental health professional should carry a signaling device to alert police if they are needed.
@baldmetalnerd
3 жыл бұрын
Cops are some of the worst responders I can imagine for mental health calls. I want the cops to show up if someone is being robbed, or threatened physically, or if a criminal investigation needs to happen. I definitely don't want them to show up because someone is having an off day.
@tomdavis6118
3 жыл бұрын
Hear hear! Amen to that, man. 👍
@HayLeesHomeMade
3 жыл бұрын
Your voice is so soothing to listen to
@stephanierussell2319
3 жыл бұрын
Outstanding video - thank you for this thoughtful approach.
@tashahammond5794
2 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with the first situation, it’s should be paramedics that come to your home but what if someone is on a bridge and need force to keep them safe then police should handle that
@slaps_only
3 жыл бұрын
Such a great video. Thank you for your work.
@scottkidder9046
3 жыл бұрын
Mental health is such a massive issue. I agree that police should not respond to mental health calls. But even if we could make that a reality (we probably will eventually), there’s still the problem of what to do with those people afterwards. I agree that mental health hospitals should not take 95% of the cases because 95% of the time, people are not actively trying to kill themselves. I’ve gone through an outpatient program because of a depressive episode and it did help, but at the same time, it was only 8 weeks long and I was lucky because I was able to drop out of school for a semester which was embarrassing but at least I could do it. I also had insurance that covered me. I had the privilege of going there. Most people can’t do that because employers aren’t too thrilled about an employee taking 8 weeks off to take care of their mental health. And even though I had the best case scenario happen to me, I still struggle with depression and even with all my tools and education and whatnot, I still did far worse in college than I could have had I not been depressed. The medications we have for mental illness work or don’t work for reasons we have no idea. We don’t understand every single variable in the equation. We don’t even know what a “normal” person is. We haven’t mapped the brain, we don’t know what’s wrong with some people’s brains and what isn’t. We have no idea what we’re doing. We don’t even have an objective measure of mental health. It’s all based on how we feel. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if I felt better on some meds and worse on others. And every time I was asked that, I had no idea. The only real way to try to measure that that’s still not objective is to keep track of your moods daily and then plot them out and take averages and then see if the last 6 months were better than the previous six months. But even then, it’s not clear that it was better because of the medication or because of any number of other factors! I mean if you fall in love, you’re gonna feel better for those six months than you did during other parts of your life. If you lose your job, your gonna feel worse. If the weather is different, you might feel worse or better. Or it could be for some unknown other reason. It’s not at all clear that the medication is the isolated variable that’s making you feel better or worse. But besides that, why would I go through the trouble of tracking my moods when the definition of being depressed is not doing things I need to do? All of the treatments for depression require work, something you don’t want to do when you’re depressed. That’s why you’re depressed, you don’t think it’s worth working anymore. And all of these things are incredibly frustrating and also not well defined. What’s the difference between being lazy and self-absorbed and being depressed? Almost nothing. It could just be that I happen to be lazy or that I happen to be more neurotic than the average person. Is that a problem? Is it my fault that I’m neurotic? How do you fix that? Is it even a problem? I don’t know!!! My point is that even if we could respond better to mental health crises, we’d still be unable to help most of them. Not without a lot of support and more importantly, money. One in three people suffer from some sort of mental illness. We really can’t afford to help those people. I’m one of those people. I suppose that’s why I’m so cynical, but to be fair, I guess I do have depression. It’s just so frustrating because mental health is a chronic condition. We can only manage it, there’s no cure. And that makes it very expensive. And most of the time, we can’t intervene until it’s progressed into its most severe stage which is people trying to hurt themselves or others in a desperate attempt for help. People don’t want help until it progresses into a severe stage, when they can’t function anymore in society. I suppose to be fair, we can help the majority of people be functional. That would be worth the investment. Most people just need help navigating a situation they’re ill-prepared to handle. They don’t have some underlying brain abnormality. But people relapse all the time and when they do, they need another few weeks to recover depending on how severe their mental illness is. Again, it’s chronic and it’s a battle constantly fought, not a decision. It’s thousands and thousands of decisions made over and over again, and it only takes one bad choice to set you back. And the more things you have going on, the more choices you have to make, the more likely it is that you’ll relapse. It’s just a matter of time. And the excuse of having a mental illness gets old even for the person with the mental illness. I don’t know. Managing the mental health of 100 million people in the U.S alone sounds so impossible. But yeah, I suppose if we were able to have mental health professionals respond to mental health emergencies rather than police, that would make things better. At least we wouldn’t have people being shot when they needed help. I’m not blaming police, I’m just recognizing that police should not be responding to mental health emergencies. Guns are perhaps the worst possible thing when coupled with mental health issues even if the normal people have guns. And I don’t think police can be unarmed because unlike in other places, civilians are armed to the teeth in America. So if the civilians are armed, the police have to be armed too. But that’s exactly why police shouldn’t be handling mental health crises. That, and the stigmatization and the sheer number of false alarms. But it’s mostly just the fact that you can’t solve mental health problems with bullets or use of force. You can only make them worse even if you have the best of intentions.
@HoaxteadResearch
4 ай бұрын
YES!! As an ex-social worker, I cringe when I hear of cops being called to deal with people with mental health crises. That is not a police job, they aren't trained for it, and more likely than not, if the distressed person exhibits any violence, things will end in tragedy. Meanwhile, our local psychiatric hospital no longer has an emergency room, so people with mental health crises are being shunted off to medical ERs. De-institutionalizatin is a massive failure, but nobody seems to get that.
@milascave2
11 ай бұрын
Yes, there should be counselors of some sort that go with police to mental health calls or, if the person is not being violent, just send the counselors themselves, with the option of calling the police if they really have to. Often, it is very easy to calm them down, if you know how. But the police are not trained to do that, they are trained to be hard ass and respond to problems with "crushing force." The problem is that most of the funding goes, not to the mental health care system, but to the police system. So that is where they get what little psychological services they get.
@mhd196
3 жыл бұрын
Sadly, viability of an option depends on its 'economic' contribution to wealth of those supporting the authority, rather than how really it solves the problem. For example, if you make a federal mandatory university degree "psychiatric policing", you will get some unusual lobbyist support.
@12ealDealOfficial
2 ай бұрын
I agree with you, but increasing the professionalism of ground level municipal employees means increasing funding, not just requiring more out of applicants. Ij fact, our standards for new applicants are selectively lowered depending on the applicant's demographaphy. We can't defund the police while also wanting them to be better educated, more empathic, and less over-worked. And disarming them is not a solution either.
@Mawykins
2 жыл бұрын
Thank God for local mental health hotlines
@adamhicken8898
Жыл бұрын
The way I see it, the police should only be the ones to respond to mental health calls when there is a credible threat of violence, or when there are no other options. And even so, mental health response training should be a mandatory requirement in training before they can get their badge.
@jorenbosmans8065
3 жыл бұрын
Got send here by Knowing Better and I am not disappointed. Great video and it is one of the few that I've seen which discusses the research on having or handling a gun and the chance of An aggressive outcome. I find the idea that mental health workers might be in danger if there is no police present An odd argument. I would assume that they are trained and experienced in handling People who are becoming aggressive in an erratic state. More than a police officer would be.
@papercut7141
3 жыл бұрын
Don't really understand why this is always presented as an either or thing. When there's a car wreck, who do they send? Firemen, emt, police. Because they have different roles to play. Why couldn't you have a mental health response unit as a subset of another department or as it's own thing that if needed can have a police escort?
@jorenbosmans8065
3 жыл бұрын
@@papercut7141 I do believe good cooperation between police and other groups is key, but appearantly it goes wrong with mental health work sometimes as some police officers don't seem to work wel with social workers (mentioned in the video). I agree that at a fire of a a serious accident police presence is An added benefit, but they are usually there for crowd control, so it feels like a different situation to me. With mental health situations their presence might make things worse as having a uniformed officer in the room Puts more pressure on the person. This would be out of the control of the officer. But yeah, it is not that a police officer should not be allowed in those situations , I agree with you there. They just need to figure out when police is needed and how.
@Tulikettumeep
3 жыл бұрын
I'm thankfull now that here in Finland, we get picked up by ambulance. I have been there twice. Suicidal and family member called ambulance on me. Those EMTs were amazing. Never is police sent alone to these cases.
@nanasloves
Жыл бұрын
Parent here, what can I/we do. I want to help. As far as police, I’ve seen two different interactions with police. In the DC area, the police were soooo kind and helpful. In a small town in Utah, the police seemed to enjoy their power and the courts were unbelievably harsh.
@tonyanthony5105
3 жыл бұрын
Personal opinion, ABSOLUTELY NOT. If the person doesn't have the absolute BEST relationship with law enforcement that could easily make the problem much worse
@AutisticlyRose
2 ай бұрын
I was in 7th grade and had just attempted suicide by swallowing a bunch of pills. The cops responded and one was super mad because it was the end of his shift when he got the call and he had just dealt with me at the beginning of his shift as a runaway. I was put roughly in handcuffs while he angrily demanded to know why I did it and kept in handcuffs while I started vomiting the pills back up. Eventually he got another officer on site to hand me over that took me to the ER for treatment. Overall it was an awful experience during an awful time.
@AnthonyChinaski
3 жыл бұрын
This video is awesome. What we forget is that we have a massive amount of Reactionaries who would rather shell out more of their tax money for more cops and jails in order to lock people up behind bars instead of ever having to look at them out in public ever again.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
You can’t forget that. Not if you have been slightly paying attention. America is a hyper carceral nation. I get frustrated with some fellow lefties because they have helped increase over criminalization and mass incarceration over the years with the support of overly simplistic narratives - belief in pseudoscience and even conspiracy theories. I’ve never been a fan of the overly simplistic radical feminist narrative that every criminal act directed at a woman or child is the result of a man seeking power and control. The Duluth Model used in DV/IPV cases is based on radfem theory but it was created by a theologian. It has several issues. Among them is the tendency to willfully and blatantly ignore poverty, structural racism, addiction, mental health problems, etc… If you refuse to acknowledge or focus on these concerns and the role they play - you are doing no favors for anyone. The same behaviors will be seen in the next relationship, and the next… Feminist law professor Aya Gruber wrote an excellent book called The Feminist War on Crime that beautifully lays out the adoption of hyper carceral mindsets within feminism during my childhood and teen years - though carceral attitudes among some groups of feminists goes back much further. It happened during a period and climate much like today. One swirling with an explosion in pseudoscience, bad ideas and conspiracies. I’ve gotten disheartened because almost every group pushing for court - prison reforms that I largely support has also thrown in pseudoscience that is known to increase injustices/false accusations and wrongful convictions. 🤷♀️ I’m glad more people are back to acknowledging numerous issues, as they were during the 70s - 90s, but there are problems in the ranks.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
I’ll note that I don’t expect anyone to be able y fix all problems. Many people are resistant to help - treatment but you have to at least acknowledge that other factors can play a role and try to mitigate in some way.
@michaeluzuegbu3310
Жыл бұрын
There should be officers with full arrest power that are primarily trained to respond to mental health calls and also deal with crimes relating to mental/behavioral health. I.e suicide, sexual assaults, crimes against children, crimes against vulnerable, those having mental episodes, welfare checks on the elderly, neighborhood checks at night (an established time period to check neighborhoods and ensure homes are locked and secured), Drug Rehabilitation Centers, Juvenile Correction Centers.
@Anne_Onymous
10 күн бұрын
The fact is, those calls can be extremely dangerous for both the "subject" _and_ the police responding. Just a reality. Having a trained licensed mental health professional accompany them would likely be the best solution. However the government will claim they don't have the funding for that (even though they always seem to find money when they need it for less important things). Priorities 🤷♀️
@OrthodoxAnonymous
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! I'm not one to comment, but I think you did a great job presenting the issue. I know I would not want to see police officers at my door if there was some mental health crisis going on. Keep up the great work! :D
@eugenetswong
11 ай бұрын
Thanks for bringing up these topics. I notice that I tend to agree with your overall opinion to broad questions in your videos, but we tend to disagree on the smaller issues. I think that the main reason that I don't want police to respond to these calls is that most of the calls, even if a bit violent, aren't genuinely criminal is nature, and aren't very dangerous. The situations can be handled easily without law enforcement, so it is wise to use mental health services to avoid any police records being made. If we were really honest, then I think that many of the genuine police issues could easily be dealt with bylaw enforcement, or even a security guard.
@tylermacdonald8924
2 ай бұрын
This should go viral
@Kenkire
3 жыл бұрын
I love CAHOOTS. I have used them in the past.
@neurotransmissions
3 жыл бұрын
Oh wow! Mind sharing a bit about your experience?
@Kenkire
3 жыл бұрын
@@neurotransmissions Absolutely! I was homeless for 10 years in Eugene in my 20s. I had many a mental health crisis and used White Bird many times (they are the people that run CAHOOTS). I was in a bad spot with a domestic violence situation and called the cops. They called CAHOOTS to take me to a shelter. There was also a time when I was having a really bad time, got really drunk, didn't feel safe riding my bike home, and needed to get back to the place I was staying, so I called them. They said, "We don't normally do that but we will take you to your place" They loaded me and my bike in the van and took me back to my camp trailer. I have called them for other people as well to be taken to the crisis hospital and to the alcohol detox center. They really are wonderful. Most of the police know when, and do call, CAHOOTS. They have even been given a larger budget to expand into the neighboring city Springfield. Now, this is not to say all is great and mental health in Eugene is treated well. There are still people that need mental health help ending up in jail more often than not. But mostly because we don't have a robust system in place to help everyone who needs it. White Bird Clinic is a wonderful place for low/no income mental/physical/dental health help, but they are sadly overwhelmed. We don't really have the best system, but it is definitely better than most.
@TheJayman213
3 жыл бұрын
thank you
@torietorreano6613
4 ай бұрын
I saw a show where 2 Swedish cops were visiting New York. They were on the subway and witnessed a police officer physically assault a mentally ill man. They went over and deescalated the situation. They couldn't understand why this officer was so violent.
@pollysshore2539
6 ай бұрын
As far as replace goes… I would bet on more pushback coming from paramedics, social workers and therapists in my county. Paramedics used to primarily handle numerous mental health calls in my county years ago. That was until 2 paramedics were murdered after a routine response to a patients house that suffered from PTSD. They refuse to go without police today. A tragedy involving a social worker resulted in the same conundrum. My mom retired from social services. I used to get off the school bus at her office building and I saw more than one person walk in with guns and wooden planks full of nails over the years. All looking for the social worker that removed their children. I think people might get back into the swing of it until something bad happens.
@pennyforyourthots
3 жыл бұрын
I've always thought it was weird that a mental health crisis was determined to require a police response, despite the fact that care for mental health is entirely covered by the Healthcare system. Like, if you require therapy, hospitalization, or medication for a mental health issue, you go through insurance and Healthcare, not the court. Even if we were to not make any changes to the current system or create a new Department to handle Mental Health crisises, wouldn't it still make more sense for this to be something EMS responds to? If you did make a suicide attempt in between the time of the 911 call and them arriving, then medical would have to be called anyway, if nothing's wrong but they aren't sure, then you already have a trained Medical Professional on hand to make that judgement, and if you do need to be taken somewhere for further counseling, then it looks way less socially damaging to be taken away in an ambulance than a police car. Also, while being taken away in an ambulance is definitely still stressful, I imagine it's much more reassuring to see EMS than a police officer. Regardless of what you personally think of the police, I think Society at large Sees them as punitive, either in the sense that they are there to "catch the bad guys", or in the sense that the police only show up when bad things happen. EMS on the other hand is largely seen to be a group that stop bad things from happening, or helps to prevent bad things from getting worse. I think just subconsciously, it's way more reassuring to see EMS. Instead of being made to feel that you've done something wrong, it makes you feel as if you need help, which you might genuinely need. In the optimal situation, we create an entirely new task force dedicated to JUST covering mental health crises, but at the very least we need to shift the responsibility from police to Medical.
@augusthoglund6053
3 жыл бұрын
While I am against abolishing the police, a concept supported by 15% of U.S. Americans (33% under 35 years old), I do see sense in minimizing their use, and the use of force by them. There are some few psychiatric disorders that pose such a threat to others that use of force, policing, and prisons will be a necessary component of containing them, even in an equitable society with all needs met. However, for the vast majority of psychiatric disorders, the tools to reduce harm (without causing more) are there, as I am convinced.
@neurotransmissions
3 жыл бұрын
Which specific psychiatric disorders are the ones that pose a threat to others?
@augusthoglund6053
3 жыл бұрын
@@neurotransmissions From the popular literature I’ve seen anti-social personality disorder (see also callous and unemotional child), and pædophillic sexuality disorder seem like the most correlated to danger to others (by my opinion), but oppositional defiant disorder, and intermittent explosive disorder, and some other mood, personality, and impulse control disorders are cited in incidents of threat to others. Disorders, even the ones above, do not deterministically make anyone dangerous or dangerously anti-social, but sometimes incidents of dangerous or anti-social conduct (that are codified by society as crimes) can be traced to a persistent or untreated disorder, even when the crisis call is not explicitly a mental health call. The mental health component that makes the crime in question implicitly a psychiatric issue. While there is hope with the new science emerging on how to manage these disorders successfully, I strongly suspect that it takes a court order or removal from the community to get a select few to seek or comply with treatment for others' safety (within due process and dignity).
@ace.of.space.
3 жыл бұрын
great video. too many people end up in crisis in the first place, and too many of those are met with fear, stigma, and violence instead of concern and ongoing support. i really think replacing police with specialized workers for mental health will improve things for everyone
@augusthoglund6053
3 жыл бұрын
That EMTs are a new invention (at least for the U.S.), was the most persuasive and reassuring fact issued in the video to me.
@Amazing_missB
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this video. I once called our local crisis hotline because I was having a panic attack and felt like I was going to die. I just needed someone to talk to. They sent the police who said that I could go with them either voluntarily or involuntarily but I knew what would happen to my record if I went involuntary. I just needed someone to talk to- I have generalized anxiety disorder and was under a lot of stress dealing with the death of my grandmother. When I got to the mental facility (they ran the crisis line- so I’m still bitter about the conflict of interest as I ended up owing $1,500)- even they were confused as to why I was there. I ended up spending a good deal of my time there helping one of the nurses apply to a graduate program and talking with some of the night shift about their families. I was labeled “obstinate and uncooperative” because I refused to take Thorazine. I got out of there as soon as I could (they made me stay 11 days without seeing a therapist) with an intense sadness that things shouldn’t have gone this way. I guess I’m lucky I am a white woman who was able to quickly return to my normal, logical self. I fear for anyone suffering from psychosis that an encounter with the police could be deadly.
@saraht855
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, one of my friends has really bad experience with being taken back to hospital by the police which were way more violent than needed. My friend is only a flight risk, not an agression risk. (UK comment) The other thing I think about is statements and domestic abuse cases, MH professionals could have such a good role in taking statements compassionately from scared and traumatised victims, instead of putting that as another role on police officers
@yehmen29
6 ай бұрын
That was really insightful, you know your subject. One caveat: homeless people are not necessarily mentally sick. Some of them were victims of child sexual abuse and therefore do not have a family who can help them when they are out of work or underemployed (0 hour contracts). I would also like to point out that some people will call the police on someone, claiming they are dangerous or suicidal, when they just wish to harm them (family members who are worried that their victim may make a complaint for child sexual abuse or conjugal violence), want to get rid of them (landlords) or just want to make their life more interesting and like on tv/social media. Even when a person is distressed, it is usually possible to deescalate. Look at the beginning of the first Rambo movie for instance (First Blood). So many missed opportunities to de escalate... Just sending in an empathic dog or cat may help... That's what I'd do when my father (WW2 vet and FEPOW) had a flashback: I'd just tell the dog to go to him, the dog would sense there was something wrong and would stay at a safe distance, and my father would snap out of it and come back to the here and now.
@GiantsRTheBest1
3 жыл бұрын
Please have a discussion with Officer 401. It would offer points of views from different sides, and it would expose you to his viewership and Vice versa.
@ccdecker
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed, this KZitemr needs to be exposed to some content by police officers. I was sent by Knowing Better and wasn't especially impressed by some of the assumptions being made here, nor quoting "studies" conducted under absurd laboratory conditions that don't mirror real life stakes on any level.
@miaurye1286
3 жыл бұрын
@@ccdecker did you not watch the video???? how the presence of armed police inherently invites violence?????? we can see that the results of those studies mirror real life...
@ccdecker
3 жыл бұрын
@@miaurye1286 did you not read my whole comment???? how the controlled laboratory study he mentioned (but didn't cite) was about holding a toy vs a (fake?) gun during a fake, safe laboratory scenario?????? we can see that the conditions of the study does not mirror the unpredictability of real life or the training of those involved....
@miaurye1286
3 жыл бұрын
@@ccdecker Responding to just about anything while armed is allowing and escalating the possibility of violence.. there's no reason for that to be the case. If you've watched KnowingBetter's video , there's another study in there that proves this. Yes, things are unpredictable, but the cops are more a danger to the mentally unwell person than the person is to them.
@papercut7141
3 жыл бұрын
@@miaurye1286 so what exactly do you expect police to do in a country where anyone can be armed at any moment? Just go into every situation with their fingers crossed they won't catch a gun in their face?
@Mit3mouse
2 жыл бұрын
How about an unarmed branch of law enforcement?
@4DCALS
8 ай бұрын
Police are not afraid it is how they are trained. People who never walk in the shoes of Doctor's, Lawyer's, and Police should not assume how that particular group of people are or should be and judge them by a few actions. I have responded to numerous calls where the police was needed. And responded after the fact in which i or any other police could not protect and serve that or those individuals. Just imagine a mental health worker respond to a crisis of someone off their meds. The worker enters the home. The worker is now confronted with a gun. What is that mental health worker to do. The gun never came into play with me or many of my co-workers it's all in the presentation on arrival. The gun is just another tool on our belts. I love this topic because more needs to be done.
@teresagoncalves531
Жыл бұрын
Got harassed by the police, basically got interrogated and intimidated by them in a circle for hours in the name of a "psychological evaluation" with hints of fascism in between. They also threatened to throw me in the ambulance by force and forcibly removed a phone from my hand when I tried to record. Mind you, I was on my period, covered in blood and barely awake when I discovered the ambulance was coming (family didn't believe my abuse claims and decided I was crazy because I was repeating the claim after noticing they weren't listening at all, didn't help me, made it worse, tried to institutionalise me .) One also tried to force me to say I was crossing the train line so they would have something against me and when I refuted the claim he became clearly aggressive. Several of them were enjoying it and I could tell.
@oliviastratton2169
3 ай бұрын
I think teams of police + mental health professional would be best. The mental health professional could take the lead, but have the police officer on hand in case the situation turns violent.
@andrewp8549
3 жыл бұрын
What video are you guys doing next?
@andresabantoenns9697
3 жыл бұрын
Could paramedics be used as an emercency response to a mental health crisis instead of police?
@SandfordSmythe
4 ай бұрын
I think mental health workers are preferred as the better alternative. Police should have some first responder training and maybe attitude adjustment training.
@bobsbrain397
3 жыл бұрын
These are questions that need to be asked, would love to see programs like Cahoots get more traction and funding. Thank you for this video
@noodlespoo
3 жыл бұрын
It's not even that the police are afraid all that much. Its just that there are no consequences for them killing someone. Well, maybe a suspension or some other slap on the wrist. Why would you take on even a slightest risk in this situation? If you try to actually protect and serve, you might get injured or killed. If you shoot first and ask questions later, no big whoop, the judge's guaranteed to be on your side. It kinda baffles me that in a country where there are more guns than people there's no mob justice against the police. First a couple of murderer cops get fished out of a river, and the next ones will try to actually ask questions first and shoot later.
@PatKellyTeaches
3 жыл бұрын
Great work with this one Micah
@neurotransmissions
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Pat!
@CaelTheWaxAngel
Ай бұрын
I can imagine this because my parents put me through this 23 times from the age of 5
@Sarnican
3 жыл бұрын
I have Nebula. What the hell is wrong with me. I should be watching this there!
@TheGatewayProductions
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video! They should teach the importance of mental health in schools. Nice work!
@Rory20uk
3 жыл бұрын
I think that this really needs to be prefaced with "in the USA". As a rule Europe / Canada and most other developed nations (also known as "civilised nations" do things very differently.
@lisahessinger6172
3 жыл бұрын
What makes me mad, frustrated, sad is that in a lot of those situations POC are most definitely the victims of officers shooting at them, killing them, immediately after approaching with the excuse of being worried about something in their hands but on the other side a lot of white people openly carrying a gun or weapon with whom they seconds before openly attacked people can stand with almost no fear of being shot at by officers without them trying to intervene before taking actions. Those then claim to had a bad day or acted out of confusion, anxiety and don’t Even get charged for murder or a crime but instead get victimized as a poor confused person who had no control. The American system is so fucked up and flawed but most citizens still think that America is the greatest country in the world But I do appreciate your channel and your content. I found you today and this is my 5. video so I’m deeply invested right now 🥸😄
@Dr.Longest
2 жыл бұрын
A huge issue that you run into if police aren't involved is a good portion of people who avoid seeking help don't want the help. And you don't need much training to comprehend when the patient states, "I am going to kill myself" as an omission of imminent risk to self which needs to be addressed and not just "deescalated." But police have the legal authority (via a judge in the state of Texas) to place an involuntary hold. Whether you agree or disagree with involuntarily taking someone to a psych hospital who is suicidal is a different discussion, but police are the quickest route (in the state of Texas) to "force" someone into treatment. Ironically the vast majority of the patients I see who are involuntary have told a licensed professional that they are suicidal and then that professional calls a police officer to place them on an Emergency Detention Order (EDO). One is for the perceived safety of the patient and the other reason is a liability... No licensed professional wants that liability if a patient ends up taking their life. Police are a necessary piece because of the legality involving EDOs. Add in rural areas where the hospital I work for takes patients upwards of 3.5 hours away. Who is driving this person who is in crisis? Do you want to strap that patient with a 3.5-hour ambulance ride? Police in rural areas is the defacto drivers for these involuntary patients being sent to psych hospitals (at least out here in West Texas). Do I have issues with how the system functions? Sure. But that change is far more complicated than these proposed 3 options. In fact, out in West Texas, we have local mental health authorities who often assess patients without the need for police intervention (unless the patient does become dangerous or an EDO needs to be placed on them). And these violent occurrences would happen on the daily. Sure, they might comprise a small percentage as a total, but anecdotally I would see these patients at least once a day, and many we have to turn away because they are TOO violent. Meth is a huge issue in Texas and that type of substance use often exacerbates violence. While I agree the presence of an officer can add to a crisis I have had countless people express gratitude for their experience with the police and the local mental health authorities. And there usually is continuing care, it is just severely underfunded. The local mental health authorities have these individuals on their caseload, but many of the patients either avoid the outpatient assistance, feel they are better after their inpatient stay, or are frustrated with the timing for outpatient care (the lack of psychiatrists in West Texas really screws this whole system up). And when I mention TOO violent I mean TOO violent. These individuals (while super rare and they are a fraction of mental health patients and patients with psychosis) have placed staff in the E.R. when accepted. This isn't just someone punching a wall. These scenarios involve physical maiming or lifetime injuries sustained to staff. Spit, urine, feces, chunks bit out of staff member's arms, being choked unconscious, sexual victimization of staff (typically women), stabbings, etc. And these are the patients that get through the door AFTER we turn people away. A state hospital usually ends up with more violent patients. Do I think this is a just system? No. But it's easy to sit there and think up "solutions" without seeing what happens when trained law enforcement is not involved. I am happy that here in West Texas we have local mental health authorities that provide a lot of the services this guy is talking about. It is not perfect, but the help exists. And lastly, you can easily point to other countries for comparison, but we have higher levels of violent crime in the U.S. than in those countries. It is an easy trap to make comparisons, but that on-site visit with a patient in crisis naturally has a higher chance of violence in the U.S. compared with most places in Europe. Our substance use rates are higher too, and as mentioned previously, these drugs often make the situations even more difficult and unpredictable.
@petraarkian7720
3 жыл бұрын
This is what defund the police means. Not to take away all police funding but to limit their role to law enforcement and take funding from them along with responsibilities that shouldn't have been theirs to start like mental health services. Crisis lines should be funded to send their own responders instead of relying on police and then should also have funding to direct people to social workers who can help them access long term care.
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