"I can't teach her anything else because she's dead" Such a defeatist attitude. 😂
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
When the spirits rise for the second coming, I'll be pulling her aside for a word!
@SecondlookNZ
19 күн бұрын
@@leenanorms F.....g love it! lol 🤣Keep knitting and carry on.
@melaniemurphyofficial
4 жыл бұрын
I loved every moment of this ☺️
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you 🧡🧡🧡 next time I’m coming to Dublin Castle to have some awkward convos about Britishness!
@josefin2929
4 жыл бұрын
Hello, I'm a history student and basically the most important thing when you're studying a specific historic person is that you cannot remove someone from their historical and societal context (including us!) being angry at Victoria or any other historical figure based on modern ideas thus doesn't really work since their context was so different from ours! Really happy that the conclusion was similar to my point here; just wanted to clarify it and hopefully give some historian-legitimacy to it.
@muirgirl
3 жыл бұрын
Don't fall for the relativistic fallacy! Such an ignorant conclusion.
@chilldragon4752
2 жыл бұрын
I have an Associates in History and said the same thing. People of that time were attached to their world view just like many people today are attached to the general worldview of today. Thank you
@tanimowookusaga4856
Жыл бұрын
She was a prisoner of the system on which she reigns.
@victoriadekle9520
4 жыл бұрын
Your content has been awesome recently, Leena! Love this. Unique, enjoyable, informative, and funny. 👏
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Aw thank you - I’m really settling in to it and enjoying making it so yey 🧡
@lilhonor5425
4 жыл бұрын
I love this video! I think not putting historical figures on a pedestal and regarding them as flawless icons is important. I think two things can also be right, Queen Victoria can both be naive and manipulated by the system as well as massively benefiting from and not empathizing with the suffering of those in England and across the Empire. I'm currently studying public history for my masters degree and we have these conversations a lot. You can't really cancel a historical figure in my opinion because we can't ignore and shouldn't ignore the power and influence that some pretty bad and flawed people have had. I think instead it's about having those tough conversations and acknowledging what they did and holding them accountable.
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree ; I also think about how so many of us live in systems we benefit from and are doing little to change on a day to day basis.
@notquiteadegree3429
4 жыл бұрын
This is some quality content, Leena!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Hahah thank you!
@fearghadecleirnichiannaigh3345
4 жыл бұрын
*reads title* *nods aggressively in Irish*
@fish-fingers_and_custard7685
3 жыл бұрын
Yesssss
@anayadegani626
5 ай бұрын
India agrees
@SavidgeReads
4 жыл бұрын
Very, very much enjoyed this. ‘To get to go and prod and expert’ should be a new series frankly. I loooooove the Victorian era but have never thought how feminist or not Victoria was, probably because it was such a male dominated time I’ve just thought her simply being queen was a feminist statement surrounded by all those white privileged blokes. And that she did what she could/was allowed. So this has made me think A LOT in both ways. How her history has been written is really interesting. Thank you.
@SavidgeReads
4 жыл бұрын
I also still don’t understand cancel culture. Maybe I’ve cancelled it out?!?
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
LEENA PRODS PEOPLE is the new series. Thank you lovely 🧡
@aoife9967
4 жыл бұрын
I haven't watched the video yet, I'll try to be less biased but as an Irish person I always find it so strange to hear about victoria in a context that isn't the famine queen
@fish-fingers_and_custard7685
4 жыл бұрын
As an Irish person too, this is very true
@zoesolanki961
3 жыл бұрын
In school history lessons, is that how she is referred to, or is that something people in society call her? Maybe both?
@rebeccachapman1317
4 жыл бұрын
I knew I was going to enjoy this because I find your videos enjoyable as a rule (hence why I subscribed to your channel in the first place) but this was SO very interesting, i loved polly's insight, the fact that victoria's life has basically been told to us by men is something that's never ever occurred to me before, and this has intrigued me so much so that I'm going to see if my local library has the lucy worsley biography to borrow. Thanks lena (and polly) !!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Yes! Me too I had a big lightbulb moment when she said that. There’s a talk with Lucy linked in the podcast part of the video description, she did a really good talk for History Extra ! X
@9thgalaxy778
4 жыл бұрын
I would highly recommend Julia Baird's biography on Queen Victoria. Empathetic but still critical, and valuable since it was written by a woman!
@katemoore3684
4 жыл бұрын
Honestly ive never been more excited to read the comments on a video before and they have not dissapointed! Such interesting conversations being had i love everything about this leena!
@hflo2375
3 жыл бұрын
Yay for the Dr. Lucy Worsley mention!
@maleahlock
3 жыл бұрын
Yes!
@samalexandra1697
4 жыл бұрын
Thought the nuances here were good Leena but would really have loved to have had some acknowledgement of the complete and systematic destruction of First Nations peoples in the name of Victoria. In Australia, the legacies of Colonialism still exist for First Nations people today as they were systematically and specifically oppressed in Victoria's name. I live in a city named for her favourite PM, I live in a state named for her and yet I also live in a place where Aboriginal people were murdered for their land in the name of the crown. The racist attitudes towards Indigenous Australians in the UK were so prominent that by the 1800s a skull was worth a year's wage. Even though it was illegal to transport remains out of the country, many many people did and even began murdering Aboriginal people for their bones. There was a specific and systematic genocide committed in her name and with her support and funding. This is part of her legacy too. I really wished this had been a part of the discussion.
@Kat_Attack
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly, and her relationship with Duleep Singh wasn't quite as straightforward as described here, either. He was purposefully kept out of the Punjab and away from his mother to ensure he did not convert back to Sikhism (after being made to convert to Christianity in the first place). There was also a ceremony in which the Koh-i-Noor diamond was given back to Singh only so he could then present it to Victoria in an act of submission.
@Aloysius10
4 жыл бұрын
She also supported the Confederacy during the American Civil War by allowing warships to be built for them.
@9thgalaxy778
4 жыл бұрын
What you said about Queen Victoria as a mother/wife was interesting, but I know that while she did care about her children, she absolutely hated being pregnant. I think she definitely would have wanted to use contraception had she has access to it!
@shannonrachael6938
3 жыл бұрын
THIS IS SO INTERESTING. I love that you brought your views and values into the study of historical figures this is such a cool branch out. I hope you do more of these!! 😄 (once it’s safe of course) hope you’re well Leena - new subscriber here and I’ve binged your videos!!
@teateena7423
4 жыл бұрын
Such an interesting perspective. Maybe it’s a lesson in that all people are pretty complex and not inherently good or bad. All we can do is try to keep making better decisions and doing our best with what we have at the time.
@roisinoakley9742
4 жыл бұрын
loved this! I think these sorts of tricky conversations where we question our opinions and the source of those opinions are really interesting and important
@ilikeoversizedcoats1837
3 жыл бұрын
Severely underrated video!!!! My gosh leena your content is amazing works of art
@sinahasler562
4 жыл бұрын
Wow Leena thank you sooo much, can't believe i found such a lovely internet person (i reckon you also exist in real life and are pretty cool there too) who again and again covers the most wonderful subjects!! (plus an ad, good on you and still soooo interesting)
@ZombieInvader
4 жыл бұрын
I think sometimes we hold marginalized people in history to a higher standard than we hold the members of powerful status quo.
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah I think that’s the interesting thing about rich women - and which part of them holds the most influence over their lives, and which bits we should judge them by - it seems to be really varied depending on the moment and situation
@masakimoayra00
3 жыл бұрын
As a person who didn't learn much about queen victoria in school (thanks American school system), both this video and the comments section are really insightful and I really appreciate these videos and the discussion they bring up. Seeing Victoria from a Brit's perspective and how various historians have portrayed her (video), but also from some of the Irish and other non-Brit perspectives in the comments.
@JustSaralius
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's always fascinating to learn about royal individuals from a psychological POV since they always had/have traumatic and very stressful lives. The fact that Queen Victoria showed signs of this (dysfunctional relationships, potential borderline disorder - we can't really know) is not surprising in the least to me. I admire them and empathise immensely! It's hard enough to be a happy and functional human being with just "normal" level trauma - imagine being through all the shit and pressure and fucked up relationships they go through *WHILE* the whole world is watching and judging you for not being super human level perfect? Oh, and also not having any of the resources we have access to today - like KZitem videos on how to diagnose and recover from any imaginable trauma etc. (historically, I mean) - I can't imagine the frustration or trying to navigate that reality! It's not really fair to judge someone who lived 200 years ago as if they had the same information and experiences as us. They did the best they could with the resources available. In short - I don't think we should "cancel" people. We gain so much more from learning about them/ourselves and from communicating and empathising.
@davesanders5426
3 жыл бұрын
If you’d like more of an insight into Queen Victoria’s influence, you should talk to influential traditional women in India, such as mother in laws and grandmothers who pretty much rule the household. You see India still practices the class society and gender rules that the British left behind. So you will be able to see clearly how a patriarchal upbringing affects the rule of a powerful traditional woman.
@locketgirl8500
4 жыл бұрын
Hmm I love this video! I couldn't help but grow a soft spot for Queen Victoria when I watched the ITV series, but couldn't help feel like they very much made her seem far too modern. Victoria's a tricky one but I feel like she embodies a lot in terms of how much women's rights came after her death. Even if she didn't mean to, her long reign is a symbol of a strong woman. As a history lover, I love this video!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Aw yey thank you that means a lot x
@angelicabalia6143
4 жыл бұрын
Hellooo! Great video, I love Queen Victoria more as a legend than a person or a queen. The same way that people love the story of King Arthur and Merlin. That maybe because I wasn't born and bred in Britain, and never stopped to think "she shaped my country, do I approve of what she's done?". But actually, that's the whole reason why what you're doing matters so much. I love that you called it a conversation. It is! She might be dead but the crown isn't, so it's so important to reflect about how the decisions of historical figures affect entire communities today. That's the whole point of studying history, or at least it should be. Often at school it felt like studying history is about just knowing, sometimes it even felt like storytelling. I personally would be a much better person if they taught me "history and modern day politics and economics". It does sound like a mouthful, but at least it doesn't reduce a chain of events that led to the way our life is now to bedtime stories to learn by heart. Anyway, rant over. I was wondering if you got a chance to ask some questions about Victoria's relationship with sex. That's what always intrigued me the most about her. She set up this prude, chaste society, but then in private she was known to actually enjoy sex. That's why when you said she was anti-sex my eyebrows started twitching a bit. Was she against sex or was she against the open discussion of sex? And if it's the latter, why? I like to think that Britain was hardly ready to have a sex-positive queen at the time, and Victoria chose to not let her private life and sexual feelings define her politics. But that might be me trying to force her to fit the ideal image I have of her.
@sonmihae-joo6286
4 жыл бұрын
This was a great video, I'd love to see other iterations of it ^^ Happy new year by the way ! :D
@aashnanithianandan4264
3 жыл бұрын
I worked on this Exhibition!! Such a lovely video Leena and brilliant points made :) x
@taylorcatalana1783
4 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed hearing the context for the "Queen Victoria famously hated being a mother" understanding I had -- fascinating stuff!
@Alaezabell
4 жыл бұрын
This was very interesting. It's always important to consider historical figures in the context of their time and not ours (on a related note, I would DEFINITELY buy and wear proudly a "Context is Queen" t-shirt), and I find it interesting that in being arguably the most powerful woman in the world at this point, she had little actual agency and seemingly as little power over her empire as the men around her and the system into which she was born could manage.
@shelflife5213
4 жыл бұрын
Hey, I was born on May 24th! Thanks for partaking in the duo of illustrious women I share my birthday with! I think what's really interesting in approaching politics, history, social justice and compassion in general is to look at how much value societies/ people of power/ authors of history books place on "stability" as a concept. At least that's what I was taught in history class in school: stability = peace, the country can focus on technological/ scientific/ artistic progress; unrest = the war is coming, suffering, hunger, beheadings and defenestrations. Even if we talk about a person's medical condition, being unwell but stable is still considered a really GOOD thing. No wonder a person like Victoria would fight for stability above all else, she was taught that that was the only good direction. I would imagine she might have had personal support for the suffragettes, but politically could she afford to go out on a limb? I obviously don't know what she thought. But as you say, it's interesting to consider how much of what we might criticize her for is actually the result of the climate she was conditioned in, primed to be a monarch since girlhood. I still like her though, I think about her a lot on my birthday :) Thank you for this video!
@natureallmighty
4 жыл бұрын
This is a truly helpful exercise to do for all historical figures. Good work, Leena!
@sofiamurillo2078
3 жыл бұрын
the monorarl - the monocle system - the monarch-achal - the monarchal - monarcrackle- monica - The monarchy
@immeremma
3 жыл бұрын
I can't believe how short she was!
@danecobain
4 жыл бұрын
Phwoar, this was a bit fascinating! For a little while, I totally forgot I've run out of documentaries to watch on Netflix! Who needs 'em? :D
@dwysan
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone is a product of their environment and although I know that some of the social constructs our historical figures exercised were morally wrong I think we should be careful not to judge their entire characters by today's standards because its just not realistic. Darwin for example went way outside the box with his theory of evolution and we are in awe of him today but by the people of his time he was mocked and vilified publicly. I really enjoyed this video and I'm so glad that you spoke to Polly to get a feel for what Victoria's environment was and judge her by the standards of her time. It's a 10/10 from me 😊👩🏻🎓🗂️📝🏅
@luke28
4 жыл бұрын
I am a giant history nerd and am always so appalled when I learn how much we have left out so I love this! It is almost like mythbusters Leena style!
@SushiRapBonnie12347
4 жыл бұрын
I don’t know about the idea that she was just a person in a system she was powerless to change. There have been plenty of people in history far less powerful who incited change, even if it wasn’t necessarily ‘their struggle.’ Speaking from the American context, part of how white supremacy works in the archive is that it erases all the examples of resistance to white supremacy unless they can be repackaged into a convenient individualist and christian narrative. Black people who were enslaved in the US emancipated themselves when so much of their power was attempted to be taken by slave owners and the state. And, there were even multiracial alliances like John Brown’s raid that saw white people engaging in violent uprising for Black liberation. Sure, these things were during a different time, but there are also some actions of the past that are more radical that what we are able or willing to do now. I guess for that and more Victoria being ‘powerless to change the system’ when she was the actual queen of half the world seems a pretty ridiculous to me. Maybe it’s worth wondering why we need to peer into her personal life to find anything worth saving , and would we do that with other people? Would we really give them that much stretch?
@elliemonks2331
4 жыл бұрын
I agree that it’s impossible to ‘cancel’ historical figures but I also think that there needs to be a balance. The Kensington System is definitely responsible to a degree for Victoria’s view on the world and ‘Lord M’ probably didn’t help. However, I find the idea that she was forced to have her last two children really disturbing? Like, regardless of the fact that her and Albert really loved each other (and she really liked sex) it’s an idea that feels very recent in its origin and almost as if it’s trying to paint Albert in a bad life to suggest that a Victoria had like ‘enemies in all corners’. Also, you can’t look at any monarch’s life and reign without also looking at parliament and the changes that were taking place there (especially after the Glorious Revolution) which could give more context to Victoria’s decisions. This all being said I’m more of a medieval historian so my knowledge is kind of limited on the Victorian era and everyone reading this should do their own research!
@aleatoirefrancais
3 жыл бұрын
this was such a fantastic video. More of you delving into history please!
@alicedrysdale2066
4 жыл бұрын
I'm slightly confused... I went to an exhibition at Kensington Palace which talked about Victoria's love life. It seems to suggest that she loved having sex. That's the reason she had so many kids and that kids were an unfortunate consequence. I might be misremembering it but I'd appreciate you clearing my brain up.
@queenhart5362
4 жыл бұрын
I'll Do a better Job this Time💖 I promise to Fix and reunite the Kingdom. I'll Also make sure i uplift our women, Fix the Homelessness and fix our Horrible Housing situation👌🏾💖💖💖👑
@VAA-42
4 жыл бұрын
I did not realise that all this time I have been viewing queen victoria through a male historians eyes 🤔 and come to think of it probably the entirety of history. Especially when you think that history was recorded back then by misogynistic males. It's a common historical practice that we need to be careful when we look back at our sources and think who wrote them. Yet we still let them colour our view. We are never going to know what these huge female figures were truly like. I'm reminded of the film Elizabeth and how she was portrayed as some man hungry crazy bitch 🙄 gah!
@turtleem4
4 жыл бұрын
What a brilliant video and sponsor too! But I definitely do not have a fully formed opinion on it really, its difficult to view historical figures of the past in the present due how morals change over time, but I've always kind thought she was a bit of legend and I'm not too sure why, as I definitely do not agree with a lot of her actions
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Aw thank you and thank you for mentioning the sponsor too - I’m super careful about who I work with and how I work wth them so that means a lot 🧡 HRP are such good eggs so I’m super glad they let me have so much free reign (pun intended) and we’re genuinely supportive of the kind of stuff I make 👌👌👌 soppy speech over x
@luanaschmid2009
4 жыл бұрын
Such a brilliant and interesting video, thank you so much :)) Since Harry Potter I'm hooked on pretty much everything culturally British
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
I think Harry Potter managed to make even the Brits hooked on Britishness
@hanzib31
4 жыл бұрын
As a Brit, I see very little of my own experience of Britain in Harry Potter, so it always amuses me when people say HP got them interested in British culture. 😂
@luanaschmid2009
4 жыл бұрын
@@hanzib31 That may be a very strange question, but what would you say are five supermarket items (every) Brit has in their cupboard- are there even such "staples"?
@hanzib31
4 жыл бұрын
@@luanaschmid2009 I mean I guess most people would say tea... But I come from a family of coffee drinkers so we don't have tea. But then I really can't think of 4 other things that wouldn't be in the cupboards of literally every other country. 😂 Oil? Salt? Pepper? Pasta? Rice? Pretty standard things. Why? I feel like it depends what part of Britain you live in too. There are lots of regional things. Edit: maybe English mustard (but I know many people who don't like it... Me included, I eat French mustard).
@luanaschmid2009
4 жыл бұрын
@@hanzib31 Thank you, I guess that's quite typical (another laugh smiley), in Switzerland, these staples are the same:)
@vernan.9630
Жыл бұрын
in other vids, she didn't agree w/women being trained as doctors, she felt only men had the intellect and emotional stability to be one. As a young Queen, her 1st PM tried to broaden her knowledge, made her read books. Good for him!
@kittynekocat
4 жыл бұрын
Queen Elizabeth I was my queen!
@PaulinaGallardoEnriquez
4 жыл бұрын
Aren't we all complicit of the patriarchy rules because we didn't even knewn them?
@elizabethsacktor2818
4 жыл бұрын
I love the history videos!!!!
@lollillid135
4 жыл бұрын
pleeeeease do a positive panic episode on how to cope after the election results I'm so so angry, upset, and scared for our future
@laura__5544
4 жыл бұрын
Super interesting video!
@MichelleLElman
4 жыл бұрын
Leena!! This is amazing and fascinating!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you 😭
@albaruizdunbar4565
3 жыл бұрын
I need that teatowel
@mollyanderson_smith4987
4 жыл бұрын
I wonder how many of the authors of Queen Victoria biographies where people of colour in particular women of colour as I feel their voices and opinions should be heard in the conversation
@aspatzle827
4 жыл бұрын
Well, that last bit (starting at 15:28) makes it sound like not having a monarchy would be best... Lots of love from a republic ;) Edit: And thank you for introducing me to radical empathy.
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Haha welcome, the waters great. Yes it does seem that way doesn’t it?!
@hanzib31
4 жыл бұрын
Believe me, many of us agree 😂 But I doubt we'll ever get rid of them unless they themselves step down (which won't happen). 🙄
@livlouden7113
4 жыл бұрын
Leena this is suuuuch a cool video !!!
@loolalevi
4 жыл бұрын
Loved this one! And i think that yourvodeo just proofs that she did whatever she could within her ability, no? I mean, that princess was black (!!!) and she took her under her “care” I think only that shows a lot. Aaaaand it’s not fair to try and judge her with our contemporary feminists eyes Thanks for that!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
Glad it was helpful - so many facts blew my mind in this interview
@RiverIvy
4 жыл бұрын
NO NO! DON'T EVEN TRY CANCELLING MY FAVOURITE QUEEN HELL NO #VHIVE
this was a good video but i disagree with the statement your interviewee made that “having children is the most feminine thing you can do.” that statement is very similar to arguments that terf use to invalidate trans women’s femininity and womanhood, while simultaneously discounting anyone who is infertile or simply does not want to have children. i would be lying if i said that that statement didn’t change the way i listened to her for the rest of the video, because it did and i am taking everything else she said with a grain of salt as well. wish that had been addressed.
@elspethhart58
3 жыл бұрын
Hi, I totally hear what you're saying and I see how that could be implied, but I don't think it was intended to mean that you have to get pregnant/have children in order to be considered feminine. More that pregnancy is such a clear, in-your-face expression of femininity that it affects how people behave towards/around you. Pregnancy=heavy expectations of how you ought to behave in relation to it. As she said there's the automatic expectation on her of taking maternity leave whereas it's 'so good' of her male partner to share it. Or Queen Victoria must have been a bad mother because she didn't love being pregnant (so unfeminine!) and it would have interfered with her work to have tiny babies to nurse so she didn't do it. I think it's about the expectation and pressure on women to automatically want, enjoy and embrace the things associated with femininity even if they are actually really bloody hard. It's so important to acknowledge that fertility and childbirth are not the only things that make someone feminine, but in doing so it is also important that we don't ignore the way women are treated around the topic of pregnancy and childcare, and those things being perceived as feminine is a significant part of that.
@juliereminiec4937
4 жыл бұрын
Queen Victoria has been dead for over 150 years ! how can you cancel someone who right now is dust? Stupid!
@leenanorms
4 жыл бұрын
I do joke about the premise at the beginning.. it's a thought experiment as a tool to think about radical empathy and nuance.
@marlonwilliams-clark4018
4 жыл бұрын
It's actually only been 118 years, but whose counting?
@meganhanlon9839
3 жыл бұрын
queen victoria was The Worst tho
@amyclarke41
3 жыл бұрын
ok
@KA-bv7zg
3 жыл бұрын
Kafi tez thi.
@caseysavestheday
4 жыл бұрын
Should you cancel Queen Victoria? Answer: No. Next question.
@WaistHighView
4 жыл бұрын
Fascinating stuff! I've always thought that being a royal seems like ~the worst~ Don't have an answer about Queen Victoria, but that might be it? She was a complex human being, like most of us, and saying good or bad won't work :P
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